Gay Marriage/Rights/Existance and Religion - General Discussion

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Alliance
This thread was made to conglomerate all the issues with homosexuality floating around in other threads.

Please use it. Any discussion of homosexuality goes.

Eis
Originally posted by Alliance
This thread was made to conglomerate all the issues with homosexuality floating around in other threads.

Please use it. Any discussion of homosexuality goes.
There is already a "Is being gay a sin?" thread.

On a second thought, this might be a fun thread.

Alliance
I thought this would be more general and allow for increased discussion over a broad range of issuses. I encourage the mods to close it if it is redundant.

I look forward to much discussion as well.

debbiejo
What the heck!! Everythings a sin now a days............We're doomed...!!

Alliance
Yeah, but homosexuality is the worst. If prison wasn't involved I'd mad

debbiejo
According to scripture.......one sin isn't any worse than another, so a liar is also doomed............We're all going to Paradise........lol

Alliance
yeah...unless you're gay

debbiejo
What??...There's a special place for them.......Mars???....oh, the Sun...right.........burn up forever!!

Alliance
Yes. Hell is in the center of the sun. Thats where all the gays go.

debbiejo
blink laughing out loud

Yesssssssssssss.....all humanity will all be there...............buy ya beer.....haha


eat

Lord Urizen
If Hell is where gay people go, then damn !

Imma have myself one hell of an orgy baby !!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Lord Urizen
Like I said....if all people in Heaven are straight, then i dont wanna go to Heaven. I would be SO BORED !!!!!!!!!!!!!

debbiejo
don't need to talk about it at all...............we all go back to where we came from................It's experiencing things here baby!

Lord Urizen
Gang bangs rock !

Alliance
typical gay whorishness...this is why gay marriage should not be allowed, gays can't remain fildeledeledeledous.

No wonder AIDS is a gay disease. Its punishment from god.


no expression

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yesssssssssssss.....all humanity will all be there...............buy ya beer.....haha

I'll see ya there, and you owe me that drink debbie. big grin

...but I don't hate gays. wink

debbiejo
Well you should, god said so...

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Alliance
typical gay whorishness...this is why gay marriage should not be allowed, gays can't remain fildeledeledeledous.

No wonder AIDS is a gay disease. Its punishment from god.


no expression


laughing laughing laughing

Alliance
Its not funny dude. You're gonna burn.

Where are all the real cooks anyway? Why do I have to subtitute?

debbiejo
Cooks??...........Yeah, I am hungry...


Besides didn't some guy do a monkey and that's why we got AIDS....Gods punishment for doing a monkey????...........

Regret
If aids was God's punishment for gays, then the real question is this, since the Black Death survivors passed an immunity for diseases like Aids/Plague to their children, and some of those descendants are gay, are some gays not on God's bad side then? What the f**k?

Regret
Originally posted by debbiejo
Besides didn't some guy do a monkey and that's why we got AIDS....Gods punishment for doing a monkey????...........
For doing a monkey in the Gay way? What the f**k?

Alliance
no...the devil is the patron god of medicine/science.

and...realistically...jsut because you didn't die from the black plague didn't mean you were immune to it. Chance is a huge factor in pandemics/epidemics/demics in general

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
no...the devil is the patron god of medicine/science.

and...realistically...jsut because you didn't die from the black plague didn't mean you were immune to it. Chance is a huge factor in pandemics/epidemics/demics in general

Do some research, a number of descendants of people that survived the plague have shown to be immune to it. Studies have shown that the black plague and aids are similar in their attack. It has also shown that some descendants of those that survived, if the line is right, are immune to aids. Blood tests using HIV have shown that the subjects are. It is similar to sickle cell anemia. They just can't replicate it in other people yet.

Here is are a few links to sites with some information. If you don't like them, do a search with these words: black plague aids immunity.

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf119/sf119p05.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/case_plague/

http://www.planetout.com/news/article-print.html?2004/02/13/3

The link to the Black Plague is circumstantial, the immunity is not. It may have been that these individuals had the mutation and that allowed them to survive, and so the Black Plague may not have "caused" it, but it is where the immunity is traced to.

Alliance
laughing PLEASE!

READ MY POST!

Originally posted by Alliance
and...realistically...jsut because you didn't die from the black plague didn't mean you were immune to it. Chance is a huge factor in pandemics/epidemics/demics in general

I never said immunity doesnt exist. I know it does. I said just because you survived didn't mean you were immune.

And...your research is not correct. The first site isn't credible. The PBS thing doesn't support your link, and The last one draws similarities between smallpox and AIDS, if you can consider ti credible.

AIDS and Yersinia pestis(Black Plague) are NOT similar in their attack. AIDS is a retrovirus, Y. pestis is a bacterium. VERY different. Immunity arises independantly. Immunity to aids could have EASILY developed since the Black Plague and therefore it would be found in people who survived the black plague. Some who have AIDS immunity have Y. pestis immunity. You wouldn't find a link between the two. TO my knowledge there hasn't been a study "tracing" the dev elopment of AIDS, because the genetic source of the immunity hasn't been identified. Therefore, it cant be traced anywhere.

Regret
Sorry, I thought I had placed a "many in my initial post on the immunity thing. So I did think you were in error when you were not.

I did not link to better sources because I do not have access to a journal database. Here is study of the HIV immunity.

http://ib.berkeley.edu/labs/slatkin/novembre/GalvaniNovembreMicInf2005.pdf

Now, as to HIV and the plague having similar attacks, both enter the CCR5 chemokine receptor to enter CD4+ T cell. The CCR5-D32 mutation stops both diseases from entering the T cell.

Alliance

debbiejo
Ah oh a biologist..... huh

Alliance
Yeah...so...ninja

Lord Urizen
Alliance? You're a Biologist ? Ahhh...that's sexy wink

debbiejo
^^^ laughing out loud

Originally posted by Regret
For doing a monkey in the Gay way? What the f**k? blink

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
As a biologist

Sorry, didn't know I was dealing with an expert, if I had I would not have pushed that, never know who you are dealing with on here big grin I will take your word and double check things in the future wink

debbiejo
That's ok, he's dealing with some physicists.... wink

debbiejo
..........sorry, wrong thread.

debbiejo
Yes.............Wouldn't you think god would know ahead????........guess not............so, god is not perfect.........at least the bible god.........



oh my............look at my triple postings.................ohhhhhh..

Alliance
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Alliance? You're a Biologist ? Ahhh...that's sexy wink

Thats right you dig it dude eek! laughing cool

I'm a few things. Im a molecular biology and a history major, I'm also an artist and an avid reader. MolBio's my carrer field though, evertyhing else is just a hobby/interest...lokk I just updated my profile.

Originally posted by Regret
Sorry, didn't know I was dealing with an expert, if I had I would not have pushed that, never know who you are dealing with on here big grin I will take your word and double check things in the future wink

It's not my field of biology specifically, well, some of it is. But...uhh...erm...SURPRISE!

You don't need to take my word though. YOU gave me a paper that supports what I said. laughing out loud You can just trust them. Now I have evidence.

I just can actually process that scientific jargon.

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
You don't need to take my word though. YOU gave me a paper that supports what I said. laughing out loud You can just trust them. Now I have evidence.

I just can actually process that scientific jargon.

laughing out loud I hate trying to read through some of that crap as well wink I had a friend tell me it supported what I was saying, and posted before I had read through it all.

My field is Behavior Analysis, but I did very well in neurophysiology and psychological physiology (yes, I know they are basically the same thing wink difference is the topics of focus), and did well enough in scientific and research methodology, so I should have known better. I hate reading papers though, particularly if I don't care about the topic other than just in passing.

Have fun

Alliance
Originally posted by Regret
Have fun

OH i did...laughing

debbiejo
Oooooooooo.........I'm gettin turned on now.... blink

Alliance
Why? Got science in your pants?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Alliance
Thats right you dig it dude eek! laughing cool

I'm a few things. Im a molecular biology and a history major, I'm also an artist and an avid reader. MolBio's my carrer field though, evertyhing else is just a hobby/interest...lokk I just updated my profile.




But ofcourse. Science is sexy.

Alliance
Yeah it is.

debbiejo
I like it........

Alliance
Does anyone consider the use of the word "f@g" to be of equal offensivity with terms like the "n-word" and "w37b@ck"?

dani_california
lol it is kinda offensive. I never say it around my gay friend but he says it all the time, kinda like how black people can say the n word but white people can't.

Alliance
So you think they are interchangible then? (at least in social acceptance)

dani_california
no the n words obviously more offensive but who knows in ten years f@g might considered just as terrible to say

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by dani_california
no the n words obviously more offensive but who knows in ten years f@g might considered just as terrible to say

Uh...who are you to say this? How would u know what's more offensive?


"Gangstaz" on television, hoodlums in gangs, kids on the street call eachother "n*gga" like nothing all the time.

The word "F*g" is used all the time as an insult, never as a freindly assossiate term.

How do you figure one is more offensive than the other ?

Eis
Originally posted by Alliance
Does anyone consider the use of the word "f@g" to be of equal offensivity with terms like the "n-word" and "w37b@ck"?
I always said to my boyfriend "You're such a fa.ggot" just teasing obviously and if other people use it as a joke term I don't mind either... But if someone used it as an insult I'd kick his ass.

dani_california
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Uh...who are you to say this? How would u know what's more offensive?


"Gangstaz" on television, hoodlums in gangs, kids on the street call eachother "n*gga" like nothing all the time.

The word "F*g" is used all the time as an insult, never as a freindly assossiate term.

How do you figure one is more offensive than the other ?

F@g is offensive but the n word is worse. yes, gay people face persecution but you know the whole slave trade and jim crow segregation shit? That was a lot worse

Eis
Originally posted by dani_california
F@g is offensive but the n word is worse. yes, gay people face persecution but you know the whole slave trade and jim crow segregation shit? That was a lot worse
Ever heard of Holocaust? Ever heard of certain South American dictators that rounded up homosexuals and literally threw them to the ocean so they'd drown?
Homosexuality has been persecuted for a long time, and quite harshly.

Storm
They are equally offensive imo.

dani_california
i dunno maybe its just that people still say it that it doesn't seem as bad. Back in the 70's people used the n word a lot and not always in a racist way

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Eis
I always said to my boyfriend "You're such a fa.ggot" just teasing obviously and if other people use it as a joke term I don't mind either... But if someone used it as an insult I'd kick his ass.

I do that too.

Much like the expression "That's so gay", I'm not offended at all. When I first came out, my straight friends would say "That's so gay" or "You're so gay" and then they'd realize what they said and turn red in the face, and I'd have to reassure them that I didn't care or had been offended. Eventually they stopped saying it, simply because they no longer considered it an insult...not because I chastised them for saying it.

Jonathan Mark
Originally posted by Eis
Ever heard of Holocaust? Ever heard of certain South American dictators that rounded up homosexuals and literally threw them to the ocean so they'd drown?
Homosexuality has been persecuted for a long time, and quite harshly.
That's sick...

Alliance
What?

Whats sick to me is that everyone remembers the 6 million jews that were executed in the holocost, but arpitrarily neglect the the other 6 million people that hitler killed for various reasons.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How do you figure one is more offensive than the other ? I think he is saying it could become such.

I agree with storm. Imo, they're both equally offensive. I don't like when they're used as friendly terms either. i think that wrongly dulls the edge of a very sharp-edged word.

Eis
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I do that too.

Much like the expression "That's so gay", I'm not offended at all. When I first came out, my straight friends would say "That's so gay" or "You're so gay" and then they'd realize what they said and turn red in the face, and I'd have to reassure them that I didn't care or had been offended. Eventually they stopped saying it, simply because they no longer considered it an insult...not because I chastised them for saying it.
My friends don't really care if I'm there when they use that expression. I don't care either, I know they aren't homophobic and it's just a non-important term.


Perhaps it's better these sharp-edged words are used as joke terms rather than hurtful, offensive words.

Alliance
But that only keeps an eye on the end-game. I know way too many people who use them as insulting words.

There was just an example of a hate crime attack. The kid beat black man with a baseball bat screaming the n-word, but his defense is using the cultural pervasiveness of the n-word to say that the kid's use of the n-word does not imply a hate crime.

Darth Jello
the only way you can truely be an afront to god is by being a bear.
Being Ursine is a choice.

Alliance
Originally posted by calvs
As is homosexuality and going against the word of god. erm
<ahem> people like "calvs" aren't entitle to ther opinions about homosexuals because:

1. It is wrong.
2. It is hurtful.
3. I need debate.

calvs
Thus you are saying I am not entitled to an opinion as a human being and a citizen of a free country, thus putting homosexuals above the average man and promoting segregation, biogtry, and in-equality among other things.

Alliance
Originally posted by calvs
Thus you are saying I am not entitled to an opinion as a human being and a citizen of a free country, thus putting homosexuals above the average man and promoting segregation, biogtry, and in-equality among other things.

laughing Its a sad day when the average man (white chrisitan jo american) feels he has a valid claim of bigotry.

Brining homosexuals to equality is hardly putting them above the average american. Especially when they're a disenfranchised element of society.

Other minority groups have special privelgaes to protect them from bigotry, homosexuals, as a minoirty, should have those priveldges as well.

calvs
Originally posted by Alliance
laughing Its a sad day when the average man (white chrisitan jo american) feels he has a valid claim of bigotry.

Brining homosexuals to equality is hardly putting them above the average american. Especially when they're a disenfranchised element of society.

Other minority groups have special privelgaes to protect them from bigotry, homosexuals, as a minoirty, should have those priveldges as well.
It's a sad day when anyman loses his right to an opinion wink

You are saying I'm not entitled to my opinion, where as you say Homosexuals are. That doesn't sound like equality to me buddy erm

Can you refresh my mind of these "priveledges to protect them from bigotry"?

Alliance
Peopel have rights to opinions, but not when they cause harm to others. Thats why there are bans on military funeral protests and yelling the proverbial fire in a crowded theatre.

Priveledges: anti-descrimination laws, affermative action, minority affairs groups, etc. To these I was referring stick out tongue

calvs
Originally posted by Alliance
Peopel have rights to opinions, but not when they cause harm to others. Thats why there are bans on military funeral protests and yelling the proverbial fire in a crowded theatre.

Priveledges: anti-descrimination laws, affermative action, minority affairs groups, etc. To these I was referring stick out tongue

In these instances you refer to yes, but otherwise if there is no law prohibiting the expression of the opinion which I refer to, I see it as practicing my rights as an American citizen.

Peaople don't choose thier race, where as gays choose their sexual orientation to an extent. This being said I see no reason for them to be protected by law from opinions for making these choices. That's like saying a child molester should be protected by government from people's opinions, because they made the decision to become a child molester.

Eternalist 04
no offense to any1 but i believe it isnt any of the church's business or any other persons busines of what another homosexual couple do or do not do... i think it'd be best if we didnt get involved with them and make it a public issue stick out tongue

Alliance
Originally posted by calvs
Peaople don't choose thier race, where as gays choose their sexual orientation to an extent. This being said I see no reason for them to be protected by law from opinions for making these choices. That's like saying a child molester should be protected by government from people's opinions, because they made the decision to become a child molester.

This assumes two things.

1. That Sexuality is not entirely genetically based. This is unknown.

2. Homosexual couples don't hurt anyone, whereas child molesters hurt people. There is the difference in the morality and conviniently, the law.

calvs
Originally posted by Alliance
This assumes two things.

1. That Sexuality is not entirely genetically based. This is unknown.

2. Homosexual couples don't hurt anyone, whereas child molesters hurt people. There is the difference in the morality and conviniently, the law.
1. Sexuality IMO because sexual desire is a rare quality only humans posess, and in nature there is no such thing as homosexuality.

2. Ok, Bad example, Religion is better.

Eis
In nature there is no such thing as homosexuality? What the ****? Read the Homosexuality thread in the GDF there are over twenty references to scientific studies on homosexual animals. They exist, but I suppose those animals choose their sexuality as well... They probably were abused as kids.


When was the last time you heard of atheists beating a christian a death for being christian? Never? Same here. Now think when was the last time you heard of a homosexual been beated to death by homophobic religious men?

Don't be an idiot Fatal Smoke.

Alliance
I woudl say what Eis said, there have been many scientifically documented cases of homosexuality across many different species of animals.

Minorities get special protection in AMerican society because white people imo are franky pretty dumb/reactionary against minorities. Hence the beatings/excessive use of the terms "gay" and "***" as derrogetory terms. Heck, the word "******" comes from the name of a bundle of sticks, which were palced around homosexuals (among other people) and lit on fire to burn them at the stake.

Storm
Originally posted by calvs
1. Sexuality IMO because sexual desire is a rare quality only humans posess, and in nature there is no such thing as homosexuality.

First, humans are obviously a part of nature, so if humans have homosexual relationships, is that not therefore a part of nature?
Second, homosexual activity and homosexual relationships can be found throughout nature. With some species, homosexual activity is quite common and regular.

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