Marines Go On Rampage, Kill Iraqi Civilians

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Morgoths_Wrath

PVS
its only going to get worse.

GO DUBYA!

Ya Krunk'd Floo
They'll be explained away as just a few more bad eggs acting independently, and in no way representative of a war-mongering government which shows a total disregard for international law and human rights treaties. Obviously.

Dawson
Oh my.

Soleran
its only going to get worse.


I doubt it, "conflicts" have always had innocent casualties. Its sucks and its saddening but its nothing new or different.

botankus
Has any serious consideration been given to creating an Iraq War thread?

*waiting on CBS News journalist's own thread to be created*

I guess people would say their topic doesn't fall into the Iraq War thread, like the Guacamole Bay thread, for instance, could be considered outside of the conflict.

PVS
Originally posted by Soleran
I doubt it, "conflicts" have always had innocent casualties. Its sucks and its saddening but its nothing new or different.

these are not casualties of war. these are people who were murdered.

Soleran
Originally posted by PVS
these are not casualties of war. these are people who were murdered.

Yes I understand that, conflicts tend to have uncalculated loss of innocent life. This isn't shocking or surprising at all, just sad.

Aziz!
You better watch out with those Marines. They turn into homicidal maniacs in a second.

amity75
It's all very well to call for these marines to be given the maximum punishments etc but none of us have been in their situations and we don't know how we'd react in war.

PVS
Originally posted by amity75
It's all very well to call for these marines to be given the maximum punishments etc but none of us have been in their situations and we don't know how we'd react in war.

very true

The Omega

Jonathan Mark
This kind of stuff isn't new... despite all the training someone can receive people still snap under pressure and do terrible things. The same kind of things happened in Vietnam. Horrible...

Darth Jello
My Lai, Tiger Force, etc.

amity75
I remember seeing a documentary called "Hell in the Pacific" and it was all about the ordeals faced by US marines during the 2nd world war against the Japanese. It featured one GI who was a very articulate, intelligent man who had been a schoolteacher before the war and yet decapitated a wounded Japanese soldier and kept his skull by his bedside as a souvenir. Thanks to Governments, war turns decent, law abiding men into unthinking savages and we have no right to judge them.

The Omega
Originally posted by amity75
Thanks to Governments, war turns decent, law abiding men into unthinking savages and we have no right to judge them.

So who SHOULD we judge?

Soleran
Originally posted by The Omega
So who SHOULD we judge?

Opposing Govt's that MAKE us take military action! Who would you judge, Omega?

amity75
Originally posted by The Omega
So who SHOULD we judge? George Bush, Tony Blair.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by The Omega
So who SHOULD we judge?

Certainly not G.I.'s on the field.

PVS
Originally posted by Soleran
Opposing Govt's that MAKE us take military action! Who would you judge, Omega?

investigations show that none of the initial reasons for going to war in iraq were valid.

Originally posted by amity75
George Bush, Tony Blair.

...have yet to be investigated

Soleran
Originally posted by PVS
investigations show that none of the initial reasons for going to war in iraq were valid.


Yes I realize that, so who do we judge?

Changed_Man
(from BBC)


imagine this kid growing up now, can you blame her for hating USA?

I know I would hate yanks too if they came to my country, killed my parents and brothers and sisters.

I can't belive these marines killed little innocent kids, that makes me sick to my stomach.

Darth Jello
In past wars when soldiers snapped like that, wouldn't the nearest CO just execute all of them on the spot?

Jonathan Mark
Originally posted by Changed_Man
(from BBC)


imagine this kid growing up now, can you blame her for hating USA?

I know I would hate yanks too if they came to my country, killed my parents and brothers and sisters.

I can't belive these marines killed little innocent kids, that makes me sick to my stomach.
Perhaps you should stick yourself in a situation where you never know who is the enemy, where that guy on the sidewalk might suddenly pull out a gun and shoot at you. Where some dude might run and blow himself up just to harm you're companions or yourself. Under such a situation you might just end up snapping as well. I can't begin to imagine the pressure these guys in Iraq are under. Training can only take you so far.

No I am not saying that those marines had any right do what they did, but these things happen. They happened in Vietnam and are happening again now. It's a sad terrible fact or war.

Incidentally all these anti-US sentiments are aggravating.

PVS
Originally posted by Soleran
Yes I realize that, so who do we judge?

whoever is guilty?

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Darth Jello
In past wars when soldiers snapped like that, wouldn't the nearest CO just execute all of them on the spot?

No, they would keep their mouths shut. It used to happen all the time.

Soleran
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, they would keep their mouths shut. It used to happen all the time.


It still does

Philip_ll
going on a killing spree sounds like a familier video game.

jaden101
apparently this is only 1 of 4 or 5 separate incidents being investigated involving US troops massacring civilians deliberately

this one being in Haditha...but another was shown last night on the BBC from Ishaqi although the source of the footage was dubious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5040258.stm

Morgoths_Wrath
Originally posted by jaden101
apparently this is only 1 of 4 or 5 separate incidents being investigated involving US troops massacring civilians deliberately

this one being in Haditha...but another was shown last night on the BBC from Ishaqi although the source of the footage was dubious

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5040258.stm

I just read that too, here's the article.

U.S. Accused in More Iraq Civilian Deaths


BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - A third set of allegations that U.S. troops have deliberately killed civilians is fueling a furor in Iraq and drawing strong condemnations from government and human rights official. "It looks like the killing of Iraqi civilians is becoming a daily phenomenon," the chairman of the Iraqi Human Rights Association, Muayed al-Anbaki, said Friday after video ran on television of children and adults slain in a raid in Ishaqi in March.

Al-Anbaki's comments came a day after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki upbraided the U.S. military over allegations that Marines killed two dozen unarmed civilians in Haditha, calling it "a horrible crime." They were his strongest public comments on the subject since his government was sworn in last month.

U.S. commanders have ordered new ethics training for all troops in Iraq. But the flow of revelations and investigations threatens to undermine Iraq's new government and public support in America for President Bush's management of the war.

Iraq's government also began its own investigation of the deaths in Haditha.

In addition to the Haditha case, in which Marines are alleged to have gunned down 24 civilians in a rage of revenge for a bombing that killed a Marine in November, seven Marines and a Navy corpsman could face murder, kidnapping and conspiracy charges as early as Friday in the April shooting death of an Iraqi man, a defense attorney said Thursday.

Military prosecutors plan to file the charges against the men, who are being held in solitary confinement at Camp Pendleton, Calif., Marine Corps base, Jeremiah Sullivan III, who represents one of the men, said Thursday.

The U.S. military had no additional comment Friday on the accusations stemming from a raid March 15 in the village of Ishaqi, about 50 miles north of Baghdad.

In March, the U.S. military said four people died when they attacked from the ground and air a house suspected of holding an al-Qaida operative. The house was destroyed.

But video shot by an AP Television News cameraman at the time and previously unaired shows at least five children dead. The video shows at least one adult male and four young children with obvious entry wounds to the head. One child has an obvious entry wound to the side caused by a bullet.

Local Iraqis said there were 11 total dead, and charged that they were killed by U.S. troops before the house was leveled.

The video includes an unidentified man saying "children were stuck in the room, alone and surrounded."

"After they handcuffed them, they shot them dead. Later, they struck the house with their planes. They wanted to hide the evidence. Even a 6-month-old infant was killed. Even the cows were killed too," he said.

The video included shots of the bodies of five children and two men wrapped in blankets.

Other video showed the bodies of three children in the back of a pickup truck that took them to the hospital in Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's former hometown.

Police Capt. Laith Mohammed said the March 15 attack that hit Ishaqi involved U.S. warplanes and armor.

Riyadh Majid, who identified himself as the nephew of Faez Khalaf, the head of the household who was killed, told AP at the time that U.S. forces landed in helicopters and raided the home.

Khalaf's brother, Ahmed, said nine of the victims were family members who lived at the house and two were visitors.

The U.S. military, which said in March that the allegations were being investigated, said it was targeting and captured an individual suspected of supporting foreign fighters of the al-Qaida in Iraq terrorist network. It had no further comment Friday.

Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, spokesman for U.S.-led forces in Iraq, said at a news conference Thursday that "about three or four" inquiries were being carried out around the country, but he would not provide any details.

Iraqi officials and relatives also said U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women - one of them about to give birth - when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad.

The U.S. military said coalition troops fired at a car after it entered a clearly marked prohibited area near an observation post but failed to stop despite repeated visual and auditory warnings. It said the incident was being investigated.


I know people have been saying that these things are typical of war, but that hardly justifies these instances. Personally, I don't even think we should be there, and now I hear of American troops killing civilians deliberately...on a regular basis?? Are things REALLY better now that Saddam is gone? Are we any better than him?

This kind of thing is really making us look very bad in a region that already hates us. It seems like the more time goes by the more reasons we give the Arab world to hate us; all the more reason for an Arab to grab a weapon and yell "Death to America!". And quite honestly, I can't say I blame them. This country has ruined it's reputation and it will take longer than anyone has even conceived to repair it.

botankus
Even if American troops shoot zero more civilians or 100,000 more, they will still hate America the same. The Arab response to this news article is nothing but redundant. America could do , and they will still hate America. How Arabs feel will never change, so articles like this only serve as stepping stones for some journalist's uprising career.

Morgoths_Wrath

The Omega
Originally posted by Soleran
Opposing Govt's that MAKE us take military action! Who would you judge, Omega?

Explain to me how Iraq MADE YOU take military action, if you please.

Thanos_6383
So where were the Squad leaders and Platoons sergeants when all this happened?Or were they involved also?

grey fox
Originally posted by Thanos_6383
So where were the Squad leaders and Platoons sergeants when all this happened?Or were they involved also?

I believe the Seargent was helping them slaughter the civilians , although that term could be used rather loosely.....

KharmaDog
I find it interesting how people are saying that it is not these soldiers' fault, that their victims of the situation in which that they have been placed and that they shouldn't be judged.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if a bunch of desparate muslim men just followed orders and killed a bunch of innocent people for no other reason than they did what they were told by a bunch of others who justified their cause?

Oh, waite, that has happened before.

People say that it may be different, but I guess it's all how you justify murder.

Soleran
Originally posted by The Omega
Explain to me how Iraq MADE YOU take military action, if you please.

My post was sarcasm without a smile to differentiate, my bad. You didn't answer your own question though, Who would you judge?

Thanos_6383
I heard about things like this while I was in Iraq,but I told myself its a bunch of Bullshit.Guess I was wrong.

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Soleran
It still does

Take your worst nightmare about how you think US troops are behaving out there, and trust me, it used ti be worse in previous conflicts. The idea of 'rules of engagement' would be foriegn as little as 50 years ago.

RedAlertv2
Im kinda torn on this one. I mean, obviously what these soldiers did is wrong, yet at the same time I find it hard to really put them at blame. Soldiers in this war, and all wars before it, are under considerable strain. We've all heard the stories about the soldiers coming home from Iraq and going insane, or suffering from PTSD. So even though these soldiers did something horrible, it is not an isolated incident, and I feel like their is a greater problem that needs to be addressed.

KidRock
Killed Terrorists..IMO

jaden101
apparently the investigation into Ishaqi showed no wrong doing by US troops although the Iraqi police have refused to accept it and are launching their own investigation

http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/5729.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5044244.stm

KidRock
Originally posted by jaden101
apparently the investigation into Ishaqi showed no wrong doing by US troops although the Iraqi police have refused to accept it and are launching their own investigation

http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/5729.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5044244.stm

Just liberal tree hugging anti-war protesters blowing things out of the water...AGAIN.

It never stops with the liberals. They are like little kids.

They find the smallest thing and blow it out of proportion to make it look bad.

jaden101
Originally posted by KidRock
Just liberal tree hugging anti-war protesters blowing things out of the water...AGAIN.

It never stops with the liberals. They are like little kids.

They find the smallest thing and blow it out of proportion to make it look bad.

the iraqi police are liberal tree huggers???...mmm

or perhaps the source of the video...an extremist Sunni faction that have claimed many of the bombings on US troops and civilians...maybe its them you think are the tree huggers

because they're the ones who highlighted the incident

Darth Jello
Ah, Mr. I have a personal vendetta after 9/11 returns. I'd offer sympathy if your whole sad story wasn't so pathetic as to justify the murder of as many people as possible until you feel all better. Yeah i lost my mom too but grow the fVck up, closure doesn't exist and blaming every muslim and liberal on earth won't make you feel peachy again. I"m sorry but someone's gotta say it. There's no reparation in exterminating other people's families.

Mr Parker

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