Blair Wind's Iceman :) vs Classic Juggernaut

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leonidas
sorry about the wealth of iceman threads lately, but i find the character endlessly interesting of late.

so, bw, this one's for you. wink

can bobby freeze the unstoppable?


discuss. big grin

Validus
Does Bobby stop molecules or is it just absolute zero? Superman's artic breath is absolute zero and people bust through that all the time.

Soleran
i thought bobby was able to stop all molecules (which essentially is absolute zero) even with Juggs powers he can be slowed just not stoppedsmile So Juggs is forced to move at about 1cm a year against IM lol

MJOILNIR
I think he could slow him a bit but not stop him. He had just better stay out of Juggs reach.

Darth Martin
Originally posted by MJOILNIR
I think he could slow him a bit but not stop him. He had just better stay out of Juggs reach.
Exactly.

Validus
All Juggs can do is break him and watch him reform. Cain doesn't have the tools to beat Iceman in Blair Wind mode. big grin

Rols
According to this forum Iceman can freeze molecules, so he can stop the Jugg by freezing his molecules. Cain would stand no chance agains Iceman on this forum.

Iceman 10/10

Rols
laughing out loud laughing out loud , I find that comment quite funny.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by leonidas
sorry about the wealth of iceman threads lately, but i find the character endlessly interesting of late.

so, bw, this one's for you. wink

can bobby freeze the unstoppable?


discuss. big grin


laughing




Happy Dance


I feel....so special. stick out tongue

Soujaboy
This should tell all

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/JuggyandIceman.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/JuggyandWolverine.jpg

leonidas
was that the omega level iceman? confused

ST0RM SHAD0W
Originally posted by Soujaboy
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/JuggyandIceman.jpg



What is he staring at in the bottom panel? shifty

leonidas
Originally posted by ST0RM SHAD0W
What is he staring at in the bottom panel? shifty

so . . . tell us! mad



big grin

He-guy88
Originally posted by Rols
According to this forum Iceman can freeze molecules, so he can stop the Jugg by freezing his molecules. Cain would stand no chance agains Iceman on this forum.

Iceman 10/10

his magic feild would protect him from bobbys powers

Soujaboy
That had nothing to with his magic force field, because that was the depowered Juggernaut.

Validus
Originally posted by Soujaboy
That had nothing to with his magic force field, because that was the depowered Juggernaut.
Oh snaps! Could this be the end of Iceman? eek!

He-guy88
even so he wouldent be unstopable if he was stoped

Blair Wind
HAHAHA look what we have here. Proof that Icemans Iceblast is more powerful than Thors GodBlast

Juggs was just standing there man!
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icemanblastsjuggy8ks.jpg

and now
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/3703/invulnerable4at.jpg
http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/1212/invulnarble26is.gif


(by the way this is a joke....I do believe that Iceman can beat thor through his more exotic abilities attributed to "freezing" but this is just a joke....in case your slow)

leonidas
blink

so . . . WAS THAT OMEGA LEVEL ICEMAN!!?

Validus
Originally posted by Blair Wind
HAHAHA look what we have here. Proof that Icemans Iceblast is more powerful than Thors GodBlast

Juggs was just standing there man!
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icemanblastsjuggy8ks.jpg

What issue number is that?

He-guy88
ha thor fans take that aas for that in this tread it did not show juggs staying down so i cant say that juggs loeses

Blair Wind
well to explain: Iceman has ALWAYS been an omega level mutant. He just never showed it. He can rarely grasp the level of power he truely has. Better put at times he his mind tries to resist the scope of his power. Read the comic I sent you leo. It reveals alot

Proof:
http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenforever3p203wr.jpg

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Validus
What issue number is that?

shrug
ask Jrod

Soleran
Yes now instead of Iceman just blasting Juggernaut with an iceblast, instead he instantly freezesnaps Juggs and not only brain freezes him (which could supposedly affect him, its his mind after all) he can slow Juggs molecules down to almost most zero activity, Juggs isn't moving quicklysmile

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Soujaboy
This should tell all

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/JuggyandIceman.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/JuggyandWolverine.jpg


as for this, this was Iceman goin brute vs brute. He has so many other options that this was just the stupidest one against some like Juggs.


Then again
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icemanblastsjuggy8ks.jpg

He-guy88
Originally posted by Soleran
Yes now instead of Iceman just blasting Juggernaut with an iceblast, instead he instantly freezesnaps Juggs and not only brain freezes him (which could supposedly affect him, its his mind after all) he can slow Juggs molecules down to almost most zero activity, Juggs isn't moving quicklysmile

as long as his helm his mind should be alright besides magic trumps mutant abiltys

Soleran
Originally posted by He-guy88
as long as his helm his mind should be alright besides magic trumps mutant abiltys


Juggs can be slowed just not stopped, there is a difference. Bobby could essentially do just that slow him down to nothing just about.

Once that happens he knocks off his helmet and BAM MEGA brain freeze!

Slurpees got nothing on the Iceman for brainfreeze's!

He-guy88
Originally posted by Soleran
Juggs can be slowed just not stopped, there is a difference. Bobby could essentially do just that slow him down to nothing just about.

Once that happens he knocks off his helmet and BAM MEGA brain freeze!

Slurpees got nothing on the Iceman for brainfreeze's!

oh yea thats agreed but i dont see how bobby gets his helm off

leonidas
if his molecules stop moving, HE stops moving. period. thing is, CAn bobbyb do it? juggs has no defense against it, it would simply be bobby trying to override the gem's power. and he did overcome the stranger . . .

TheKahn
Originally posted by leonidas
if his molecules stop moving, HE stops moving. period. thing is, CAn bobbyb do it? juggs has no defense against it, it would simply be bobby trying to override the gem's power. and he did overcome the stranger . . .

I've been thinking about that and perhaps it isn't so much an issue of Bobby overpowering the ring as it is a question of stamina. My point being that the gem is constantly feeding Juggy power (kinetic energy in this case) while Bobby would be constantly trying to drain it. So while Bobby might be able to slow or even stop Juggernaut for a time, I would think that eventually the mental strain would get to him and Juggy would move forward.

newjak86
The problem I see here is that a general rule of thumb here is source of powers. Iceman is calling upon his powers while Cain is constantly being supplied by a Very powerful Magical God. It is normally safe to say Magic trumps the realms of science because basically that is what magic was designed in comics to do.

Lethal_Rise
well, even if juggernaut can't be stopped, punching ice would be pointless, 'cuz he would just keep reforming. Juggernaut's only a class 4 mutant, while jean and iceman are both class 5

Blair Wind
What the f**k? Juggs isnt a mutant......

Lethal_Rise
in the movie he is, and I meant class 4 threat. even hulk is class 5 threat to teh government.

Soleran
Originally posted by He-guy88
oh yea thats agreed but i dont see how bobby gets his helm off

Bobby absorbs tons of moisture grows huge and rips off his helmet then brain freezes him

leonidas
Originally posted by TheKahn
I've been thinking about that and perhaps it isn't so much an issue of Bobby overpowering the ring as it is a question of stamina. My point being that the gem is constantly feeding Juggy power (kinetic energy in this case) while Bobby would be constantly trying to drain it. So while Bobby might be able to slow or even stop Juggernaut for a time, I would think that eventually the mental strain would get to him and Juggy would move forward.

laughing

you must have been reading my mind as i posted. i had the same thought -- though i attributed it to a constant feed of magical, as opposed to kinetic energy. which led me to wonder if he could freeze the gem itself . . . but then is the gem constantly replenished? and since it has no moisture in it, could he even affect it? he DID affect energy which ALSO has no moisture, and the celestial tech, again no moisture so i don't really know . . . again. sad

regardless, if he COULD freeze juggs, it WOULD stop him, at least for as long as bobby could maintain his concentration. after all, the gem works THROUGH cain. thus bobby would be stopping the unstoppable -- at least for a time.

and no one ever did answer my question -- when juggs bashed through his ice powers, WAS that omega level bobby?????

TheKahn
Originally posted by leonidas
laughing

you must have been reading my mind as i posted. i had the same thought -- though i attributed it to a constant feed of magical, as opposed to kinetic energy. which led me to wonder if he could freeze the gem itself . . . but then is the gem constantly replenished? and since it has no moisture in it, could he even affect it? he DID affect energy which ALSO has no moisture, and the celestial tech, again no moisture so i don't really know . . . again. sad

regardless, if he COULD freeze juggs, it WOULD stop him, at least for as long as bobby could maintain his concentration. after all, the gem works THROUGH cain. thus bobby would be stopping the unstoppable -- at least for a time.

and no one ever did answer my question -- when juggs bashed through his ice powers, WAS that omega level bobby?????

Good point, although I did post theory of how Iceman was able to freeze energy in you "Iceman Freezing" thread. To quote Blair Wind, Iceman has always been an omega level mutant as the omega designation is only a measure of potential and not ability. His skills have varied over the years according to his experience and practice, but his "ultimate" potential has remained the same.

MJOILNIR
Knowing that lazy azz Bobby Drake he would probably just give up anyway eek! laughing

Blair Wind
Originally posted by leonidas


and no one ever did answer my question -- when juggs bashed through his ice powers, WAS that omega level bobby?????


Let me explain further on what Kahn said.

An omega level mutant might not know how to use his powers correctly as the scope of those powers are too great for even them to realize (two examples being Iceman and Elixir). In the beginning all Iceman could do was throw snowballs. However, by going to the past we have seen that Xavier has said that Iceman was an omega level mutant (on his computer files) and time and again we have heard that Iceman has so much potential but squanders it away. He is the classic underachiever. Fortunately he has had various helpers along the way (Loki, Emma, Rasputin, Prosh) to let him gain a greater control and understanding to his powers.

Also Omega Level Mutants (most importantly concerning what Xavier said) are ones with no limit to their powers. The evolution of their powers can continue to grow, and they are the evolutionary vanguards to a glimpse of what mutants can grow to be (greater than a cosmic beings)

To show you a reference point:

Iceman has unlimited resources when concerning his powers. He has continued to grow into his powers, even if sometimes he doesnt understand them. He is an Omega Level mutant

Elixir can heal people with just a touch. However, it has been stated that he can do so much more, it is just that healing is the easiest use of his powers (Sort of like Iceman when all he could do was snowballs). He is an Omega level mutant

Jean Grey is a powerful telekinetic/telepathic women. She is host to the Pheonix form. She is also an Omega level mutant

Magneto is extremely powerful. However his powers have limits. He his deemed an Alpha level mutant

Xavier is arguable the best telepath in the world (not in raw power, but technique) He is only an Alpha level mutant

The list goes down in Omega, Alpha, Beta, ect ect depending on how powerful they are, how much they can do with that power, and in how many uses it can be applied to.

Does that help any Leo?

leonidas
i get the omega thing, but no your description doesn't help because i could show a scan of thor breaking iceman's shield with a love tap while he was snowman bobby. he was still 'omega' there as well. technically.

i mean was he actualized -- reaching some of his potential -- in that scene where jugg's was busting him up?

Blair Wind
Basically? No. All he was doing was creating an ice blast. Which he has been able to do for a LONG time now. My description was meant to show, eh just look at this basically:


Iceman has the genes to become one of the most powerful mutants alive. Sort of like, random basketball player has the perfect genetic structure to become the best basketball player ever. But to acheive that end they have to practice and understand what they are doing. They sort of relate to each other. Without practice all Iceman could do was weak snowballs and such. Now he has gotten considerable stronger with the use of his powers. He will ALWAYS be an omega level mutant, that does not mean however that the power level at which he handles a situtation would be considered omega. Magneto can switch the electromagnetic poles around, but he can also lift a spoon. By doing either he is STILL an alpha level mutant, even if he is doing something simple.

Does it help now?

leonidas
okay, answer this: did the jugg's incident happen before or after bobby froze the stranger?

Blair Wind
after, thats the current lineup of that x-men team (without Juggs)

Blair Wind
and this was before....much more before:

http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=transmutesicetowater2my.jpg

crucifixio
LOl Icemans the greatest......I wish he would grow up though

Rols
Whats preventing Iceman from freezing Juggs molecules? I had thought he could freeze anything in the molecular level.

newjak86
Originally posted by Rols
Whats preventing Iceman from freezing Juggs molecules? I had thought he could freeze anything in the molecular level. The problem is that Cain is a mystically powered being and therefore what should be possible in terms of science doesn't always happen.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Rols
Whats preventing Iceman from freezing Juggs molecules? I had thought he could freeze anything in the molecular level.


magic sorcerer


Even Galctus cant understant that

newjak86
Nice sig BW

Blair Wind
Thanks. Skeets did it for me smile

leonidas
this thread was....AWESOME! laughing out loud

seriously, i'm STILL not sure if full potential/full capacity bobby could freeze juggs and prevent him from moving.

13 years and i've learned nothing apparently. mmm

-K-M-
Technically he did do it (looophole) recently. An amped Juggernaut no less

'freezing speed of light''

leonidas
where was that? you could literally end a 13 year old thread! eek!

-K-M-

-K-M-
Stupid edit function.

Was more a loophole he froze the air around juggernaut not juggernaut himself. but stopped a full on charge and even sent him flying back which juggernaut complemented him on

leonidas
hrm. close i guess. maybe that answers the question though--maybe bobby CAN'T freeze him...? mmm

-K-M-

Quick Freeze
Originally posted by -K-M-
Stupid edit function.

Was more a loophole he froze the air around juggernaut not juggernaut himself. but stopped a full on charge and even sent him flying back which juggernaut complemented him on


Juggernaut paying Bobby a compliment is blatant PIS, which means the whole loophole approach is Omega-level shenanigans! Magic has no molecules!

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