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Did Emma Frost lie in Endsong. She said she couldn't contain the Phoenix Force, that she was just a mere shell.

However:

http://comics.ign.com/articles/711/711055p1.html

If she did lie, Wolvey was definitely wrong about her.

A dream maybe? Something to do with the Stepford Cuckoos possibly.

It seems as though part of the Phoenix still resides in Emma(There was a rumour, after Endsong, that she lied), and possibly the The Stepford Cuckoos. I wouldn't say it's a dream. All I know is that Jean will definitely be back to reclaim her fragments.

With all that has happened in Astonishing I wouldn't be suprised if she had lied.

But I don't think that they would kill off Scott would they? Unless he gets healed somehow.

edit: How was Wolvie wrong btw?

Jean/Emma will probably revive Scott with the PF. Wolvey was wrong when he told Kitty that Emma " smells alright". If Emma still posseses part of the Phoenix Force then he's sense of smell must suck. On the other hand Emma may not have been aware that she has part of the PF...

Anyway at least Emma is getting some recognition as a High End Telepath. I hated it when they watered her powers down. Now that she is capable of wielding the PF, I'm sure her status as a mediocre Telepath will change.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Jean/Emma will probably revive Scott with the PF. Wolvey was wrong when he told Kitty that Emma " smells alright". If Emma still posseses part of the Phoenix Force then he's sense of smell must suck. On the other hand Emma may not have been aware that she has part of the PF...

Anyway at least Emma is getting some recognition as a High End Telepath. I hated it when they watered her powers down. Now that she is capable of wielding the PF, I'm sure her status as a mediocre Telepath will change.

Yeah, but I thought Jean died for good? I don't know if they are bringing her back, I read an interview where one of the writers said that Jean was gone for a good time.

I'm glad too, she's one of my favourite characters, but I don't think she should be 'fan boy' powered like a lot of characters at the moment.

jeans no dead per se, just in another realm of existence. But i strongly believe that Warsong will have nothing to do with Jean at all besides mentioning her a bit. I think this is soley about the Cuckoos and the fragment Jean is still looking for. Who knows though? maybe she'll appear in the end just to take the piece back, but i really think that's just a dream sequence

OMFG OMFG THERE'S A F*CKING SEQUEL?! HELL YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

actually "eternitygoddness" its the final part in the trilogy

what the hell was the first part hahahaha?????

^what trilogy?

Maybe she still can't. Maybe the Force is taking over her.

Originally posted by Fiann@
I'm glad too, she's one of my favourite characters, but I don't think she should be 'fan boy' powered like a lot of characters at the moment.

God no, no cosmic crap, all I mean is showing Ms Nova that she is not a Bush League Telepath.

what trilogy??? there was only one series of endsong...

Emma's body cannot contain the Phoenix Force that's why it is consuming her. I don't think that Emma has the PF in her. She's just showing her real potential as a telepath...not as good as Jean's though.

cyclops:no respect no, respect at all

i'm excited about this...

doesn't the phoenix force feed off of Cyclops' force blasts... it needsssss them for power ?

Probably on the show.

does anyone have a date on when it will com out?

Originally posted by Lady Fianna
I don't think she should be 'fan boy' powered like a lot of characters at the moment.

one of the best comments i've heard on this board... ever.

Plain, simple, to the point, and incredibly accurate. I thought common sense was dying on this board, at least it exists somewhere...

I'm liking the cover...

http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=20040&mode=search

and the fact that its the astonishing team...

My god I hope they keep Jean dead. She wasn't interesting when she was alive the first time. Or the second time. Or the third. Or the fourth. She's not going to be interesting if they bring her back again. She'd ruin the Astonishing X-Men dynamic.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
My god I hope they keep Jean dead. She wasn't interesting when she was alive the first time. Or the second time. Or the third. Or the fourth. She's not going to be interesting if they bring her back again. She'd ruin the Astonishing X-Men dynamic.

i think its more to do with the cuckoos and emma... and besides, didnt joe q recently say jean'd be dead for a long while yet?

i can't wait!!

What weapon number are the Cuckoos Weapon 20? I smell Hellfire in this as well....

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
What weapon number are the Cuckoos, Weapon 20? I smell Hellfire in this as well....

Of course, those images show a dream. No way they are going to kill Cyclops and Colossus again. The minisseries will show the connection among the Cuckoos and the Phoenix, or one of them and the Phoenix (Mindee, i believe).

Originally posted by Omega-level
Of course, those images show a dream. No way they are going to kill Cyclops and Colossus again. The minisseries will show the connection among the Cuckoos and the Phoenix, or one of them and the Phoenix (Mindee, i believe).

Well it wouldn't be the first time the PF has killed someone and brought them back to life.
I have a feeling that Esme and Sophie will be back.

did anyone see the variant cover on uncannyxmen.net? its awesome

This one:
http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetxmen.gamespy.com/images/comics/phoenixwarsong-01b.jpg
The Cuckoos rock.

Well it was bound to happen...but yeah the Cuckoos rock...and apparently we find out who their parents are in the third issue...two guesses to who the donor is...(Emma is too obvious..plus Weapon X linked will Club Hellfire seems too easy it could be Emma's sister Adrienne though...she's actually a true blond.)

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/marvelcomics/200611/XMPHXWAR002.jpg

It's not another Jean coming back it's the story about the phoenix or sumthing like that i read it on www.wikipedia.com

interveiw with the writer, said that jean will not be back and that this is all about the phoenix force itself, he also said that warsong and endsong were apart of a trilogy...
however i hope the leave jean out of it for a while, i mean there comes a point that dying and coming back just doesnt work and it gets a bit boring, as much as i love jean and the phoenix maybe this time, the phoenix will leave jean dead and finally get a new host, possibly emma, furthermore i hope emma is a shell, she is a bit wimpy, as for the cukoos i wud love them to take over the phoenix force, i think they cud definatly handle it.

Originally posted by supreme_being
interveiw with the writer, said that jean will not be back and that this is all about the phoenix force itself, he also said that warsong and endsong were apart of a trilogy...
however i hope the leave jean out of it for a while, i mean there comes a point that dying and coming back just doesnt work and it gets a bit boring, as much as i love jean and the phoenix maybe this time, the phoenix will leave jean dead and finally get a new host, possibly emma, furthermore i hope emma is a shell, she is a bit wimpy, as for the cukoos i wud love them to take over the phoenix force, i think they cud definatly handle it.

Wimpy???

Best ending...Jean stays dead....or shattered...

Warsong Preview #1

Speech Bubbles....

http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=40132

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Warsong Preview #1

Speech Bubbles....

http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=40132

They were awesome. Looks like Quire is back, and that ahnd rising from the ground should surely be one of the Cuckoos right?

**FI**

HOT, VERY...HOT, im looking forward to this very much

What did we think of the first issue?
Emma...poor Cuckoos...

I didnt get into the city today, i'll be in tomorrow... is this worth buying?

Originally posted by pr1983
I didnt get into the city today, i'll be in tomorrow... is this worth buying?

Ehh..average IMO....nothing shocking...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Ehh..average IMO....nothing shocking...

Hmm... i suppose i'll pick it up, read it and decide then whether to pick up #2...

Originally posted by pr1983
Hmm... i suppose i'll pick it up, read it and decide then whether to pick up #2...

I mean it was predictable...I like it better then Endsong though...and Endsong wasn't that great IMO...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I mean it was predictable...I like it better then Endsong though...and Endsong wasn't that great IMO...

Endsong was piss... at least imo...

Ok, read it...

T'was good, the 'these arent the droids your looking for' line, brilliant....

solid issue... lets see what happens in the next one...

Originally posted by pr1983
Ok, read it...

T'was good, the 'these arent the droids your looking for' line, brilliant....

solid issue... lets see what happens in the next one...

Yeah solid is a better word to describe it...kind of predictable though..

My favourite line..."I break minds"

What Emma did to the Cuckoos seemed a bit cruel though...

i cant wait to read #1 of phoenix warsong. my local comic store does not stock it, could some one post the scans of the issue online? thanks a lot, greatly appreciated.

imo i loved endsong so i cant wait to start reading warsong....

The art wasn't great.

The story was okay if a bit vague.

"You can't teach me anything now can you, Miss Frost? I'm beyond you. I can break things with my mind."
"Well, that's very interesting, my dear. But I just break minds."

Mmm Emma.

warsong sounds extremely interesting. what i always liked best about emma is her witty quotes and urbane attitude. of course being drop dead sexy helps too.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Yeah solid is a better word to describe it...kind of predictable though..

My favourite line..."I break minds"

What Emma did to the Cuckoos seemed a bit cruel though...

It IS emma...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The art wasn't great.

The story was okay if a bit vague.

"You can't teach me anything now can you, Miss Frost? I'm beyond you. I can break things with my mind."
"Well, that's very interesting, my dear. But I just break minds."

Mmm Emma.

i thought the art was ok if a bit simplistic...

emme... pfft...

is it out yet!?

yup it was launched on the 6th of september in the US, but for international release i'm not sure, i think it would depend on how soon your comic store can bring it in. here in singapore it hasn't arrived yet, still eagerly awaiting!

well i was just looking around on a site and i saw another cover for warsong..... and it looks like

celeste,mindee and phoebe are using the force to bring back there dead sisters esme and sophie

heres the link if you want to see the pic

http://comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=20953&mode=search

So are the Cuckoos Omega-Levels or are they simply a 'shell'?

Originally posted by pr1983
It IS emma...

But that's the thing...it was their only option..and even she looked like she regretted it...I couldn't help feeling bad for both sides....still cruel though even for Emma standards...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
But that's the thing...it was their only option..and even she looked like she regretted it...I couldn't help feeling bad for both sides....still cruel though even for Emma standards...

i was teasing...

and crimson, how do you get away with a sig like that?

cause i can

Originally posted by pr1983
i was teasing...



So what are your predictions for the next issue...? Wonder what everyone will say if the Cuckoos turn out to be clones of Jean Grey....

The Cuckoos find a Songbirds nest...and lays her own eggs in the middle of the brood....and the stupid little Warbler never notices the difference...until it's far too late...

Cuckoos = Stepford Cuckoos
Warbler = Emma

Originally posted by crimsonphoenix
cause i can

wish i could...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak


So what are your predictions for the next issue...? Wonder what everyone will say if the Cuckoos turn out to be clones of Jean Grey....

The Cuckoos find a Songbirds nest...and lays her own eggs in the middle of the brood....and the stupid little Warbler never notices the difference...until it's far too late...

Cuckoos = Stepford Cuckoos
Warbler = Emma

no...

no predictions... i have no idea where this is going...

pr you so can have a sex sig.............

and ill wait to get these issues when they come out in graphic novel form

Originally posted by pr1983
wish i could...



no...

no predictions... i have no idea where this is going...

Good enough...

I'm not to familiar with real life Cuckoos...but from what I hear...after the Mother Cuckoo lays it's eggs in a Songbirds nest...the eggs hatch...then the Songbird continues feeding it as if it were it's own...until..the baby Cuckoos eventually bite off the Mother Songbirds head...

Seems like this part has already happened....

Interesting...they are also considered parasitic birds....

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Good enough...

I'm not to familiar with real live Cuckoos...but from what I hear...after the Mother Cuckoo lays it's eggs in a Songbirds nest...the eggs hatch...then the Songbird continues feeding it as if it were it's own...until..the baby Cuckoos eventually bite off the Mother Songbirds head...

Seems like this part has already happened....

Interesting...they are also considered parasitic birds....

Pretty much... real life cuckoos are awful little b*stards...

Originally posted by pr1983
Pretty much... real life cuckoos are awful little b*stards...



That would mean that there's a mother Cuckoo(Weapon X or someone else) who deliberately planted them in Emma's care...

I'm stating the obvious here....I read that a pivitol place from Morrisons New X-Men will be the highlight of the next issue...

One thing that caught my attention...was the Hellion factor...he must have a big role...along with Kid Omega...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak


That would mean that there's a mother Cuckoo(Weapon X or someone else) who deliberately planted them in Emma's care...

I'm stating the obvious here....I read that a pivitol place from Morrisons New X-Men will be the highlight of the next issue...

One thing that caught my attention...was the Hellion factor...he must have a big role...along with Kid Omega...

Well if it is true, then it'll probably stomp all over endsong in terms of quality...

well emma IS known for her coldness and, well to a certain extent her lack of hesitation when it comes to using lethal force. i think it's one of her defining attributes that to a certain extent has shaped her character to what it is today.



well it was hinted in new x-men #154, grant morrison's last issue of new x-men where the stepford cuckoos are identified as Weapon XIV (each girl being units 1 to 5, ordered alphabetically by their first names), the living weapon code between Weapon XIII (Fantomex) and Weapon XV (Ultimaton). so hopefully the next issue of warsong would shed some light on it since the issue has not been touched on since.

see picture:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/joelchong/Cuckoosweapon.png

yup totally agreed

Nice pic...

to be honest i only read here comes tomorrow once... i'm not a big phoenix fan...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Good enough...

I'm not to familiar with real life Cuckoos...but from what I hear...after the Mother Cuckoo lays it's eggs in a Songbirds nest...the eggs hatch...then the Songbird continues feeding it as if it were it's own...until..the baby Cuckoos eventually bite off the Mother Songbirds head...

Seems like this part has already happened....

Interesting...they are also considered parasitic birds.... Wow I've suddenly developed a deep hatred for Cuckoo birds.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wow I've suddenly developed a deep hatred for Cuckoo birds.

are you always this fleeting?

Originally posted by pr1983
are you always this fleeting? I still have some Zoom in me.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wow I've suddenly developed a deep hatred for Cuckoo birds.

Guess what happens to the real eggs of the songbird...once the eggs hatch...the Cuckoo pushes all the other baby birds out of the nest...

Originally posted by joelchong
well emma IS known for her coldness and, well to a certain extent her lack of hesitation when it comes to using lethal force. i think it's one of her defining attributes that to a certain extent has shaped her character to what it is today.

Yeah it is one of her defining traits...I usually agree with nearly all of her decisions... I don't know why maybe it's because she did it to the Cuckoos...but I just felt this was the meanest thing she's ever done...or maybe it's because she reduced them to tears...though it was necessary, it was still cruel...I think the expression on Emma's face even showed her hesitation..

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I still have some Zoom in me.

i'm sure you do...

What do we think of the variant cover?

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0609/19/topcowwarsong1.jpg

looks ravishing. although it looked kinda like she was stuffing her bra with tissues.

oh and issue #2 is out today! anybody read it yet?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
What do we think of the variant cover?

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0609/19/topcowwarsong1.jpg

Not bad, if looking a tad photoshopped...

Originally posted by pr1983
Not bad, if looking a tad photoshopped...



Okay here you go...

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0609/19/index.htm

Originally posted by ExodusCloak


Okay here you go...

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0609/19/index.htm

Ah... k...

i think that she is a shell. i think it's a corrupted piece of the phoenix that's controlling her. perhaps the piece that was in communication with the cuckoo's. i hope jean comes back to reclaim her missing piece. i hope jean comes back period!

Can I just say that...Dont You People no that jean will never die(she has been revived a ga-gillion times)

I cant wait to read warsong

wait a sec.. i thought scott's eye's were healed and he could now cntrol his optic blasts.. (thx to emma) if so then why is he wearing his ruby glasses in warsong? is this happening in a differnt time?

Originally posted by bl4cK_Dr46oN_17
wait a sec.. i thought scott's eye's were healed and he could now cntrol his optic blasts.. (thx to emma) if so then why is he wearing his ruby glasses in warsong? is this happening in a differnt time?

This takes place before the Torn Arc in AXM...

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
This takes place before the Torn Arc in AXM...

oh, haha gotcha. srry im abit slow.

so anyone have any idea as to when #3 comes out?

#3 is out on the 1st november and #4 on the 13th december

Anyone see where this is going? #3 better pick up...soon...otherwise it's only just better then Endsong...

#2 was ok... nice art which helped... emma and scott on the rocks big time, i hope this isnt a 'come first circle' kinda thing where jean comes back while emma and scott are having trouble...

#3 will be ok i'd say...

meh...

Guess that's a no...Warsong failed...

i'm sorry, its just, for an xmen event (another one), its kind of... i dunno... underwhelming...

Originally posted by pr1983
i'm sorry, its just, for an xmen event (another one), its kind of... i dunno... underwhelming...

I know what you mean...the Phoenix has been milked...

just a tad...

Originally posted by pr1983
just a tad...

whoa...is'nt that the understatment of the century!

Eww...

I hate the writers of this book....why!?

Some advance SPOILERS! The Stepford Cuckoos were grown from Emma's eggs, which were harvested by Sublime when Emma was in a coma after the original Hellions were killed. Most of the Cuckoos in the chambers are deformed, however they telepathically call Emma "Mommy". Mindee and Phoebe were sucked into Sublime's machines. Celest said that the Phoenix was going to take over her body, and that the X-Men should kill her. She does become Phoenix, lays everyone out, and escapes. After this, most of the Cuckoo capsules are broken, and the girls inside appear to be dead. Emma says "Mommy's mad."

Originally posted by archangel07
Emma's body cannot contain the Phoenix Force that's why it is consuming her. I don't think that Emma has the PF in her. She's just showing her real potential as a telepath...not as good as Jean's though.

I sure hope not! For some reason, I cannot stand Emma Frost. The Phoenix Force is a "Jean thing" I would hate for her to have that too. (since she already has Scott)

"For some reason, I cannot stand Emma Frost."

Maybe because she's a much better character?

Anyway, an extremely lame issue. This series has been very disappointing...

but emma is not a natural blonde and if the stepford cuckoos were from her eggs then why are they blonde? since they are supposed to be genetically identical to emma. and a human's eggs, which are gametes, are only haploid in number, i.e. they only contain half the amount of chromosomes as compared to a somatic cell, so when a sperm cell, which is also haploid in number, fuses with the egg, there would be a diploid cell form, one which contains correct number of chromosomes. so if they were cultivated from her eggs where did the other half of the genes come from? it dosen't make sense like that.

Originally posted by joelchong
but emma is not a natural blonde and if the stepford cuckoos were from her eggs then why are they blonde? since they are supposed to be genetically identical to emma. and a human's eggs, which are gametes, are only haploid in number, i.e. they only contain half the amount of chromosomes as compared to a somatic cell, so when a sperm cell, which is also haploid in number, fuses with the egg, there would be a diploid cell form, one which contains correct number of chromosomes. so if they were cultivated from her eggs where did the other half of the genes come from? it dosen't make sense like that.

It works...it's to do with cloning...people...like Dolly the sheep....all you need is an egg...and the nucleus of any other body cell..the nucleus of the diploid cell replaces the haploid one in the egg....the egg is then "stitched up"...and ready to be inserted into a womb....in the Cuckoos case they're inserted in some sort of machine...the clones age quicker though.....

They could have either retconned the blonde thing. Or Emma has the recessive gene for Blonde...

So the same that applies for Dolly could apply to Emma

Dolly or any other animal created using nuclear transfer technology is not truly an identical clone of the donor animal. Only the clone's chromosomal or nuclear DNA is the same as the donor. Some of the clone's genetic materials come from the mitochondria in the cytoplasm of the enucleated egg. Mitochondria, which are organelles that serve as power sources to the cell, contain their own short segments of DNA. Acquired mutations in mitochondrial DNA are believed to play an important role in the aging process.

well somatic cell nuclear transfer (what exoduscloak mentioned) would still require a somatic cell from which the genes are taken from, so which means sublime didnt just aquire emma's eggs. and in this case if it's her genes that he's after her eggs would be secondary as her genes can be transferred to any other woman's eggs as the egg's nucleus would be taken out anyway.

nonetheless, if the stepford cuckoos are clones of emma and they are able to host the phoenix force, wouldn't that mean emma is just as capable? after all it would mean that she is just as powerful as them.

Originally posted by joelchong
well somatic cell nuclear transfer (what exoduscloak mentioned) would still require a somatic cell from which the genes are taken from, so which means sublime didnt just aquire emma's eggs. and in this case if it's her genes that he's after her eggs would be secondary as her genes can be transferred to any other woman's eggs as the egg's nucleus would be taken out anyway.

nonetheless, if the stepford cuckoos are clones of emma and they are able to host the phoenix force, wouldn't that mean emma is just as capable? after all it would mean that she is just as powerful as them.

I think you may have a point there...very odd comic indeed....

"nonetheless, if the stepford cuckoos are clones of emma and they are able to host the phoenix force, wouldn't that mean emma is just as capable? after all it would mean that she is just as powerful as them."

They may not be clones, just her biological children. If they are more powerful than Emma, that could mean that Emma's natural powers were amplified by the genes of the person who is the father. And whom do you know that has been shown in the past to have genes who work just like that? One tip: Sublime is a big fan of Dr. Nathaniel Essex's work.

But i would prefer if they were just clones, and together they can host the Phoenix force, but not alone.

Originally posted by Omega-level
"nonetheless, if the stepford cuckoos are clones of emma and they are able to host the phoenix force, wouldn't that mean emma is just as capable? after all it would mean that she is just as powerful as them."

They may not be clones, just her biological children. If they are more powerful than Emma, that could mean that Emma's natural powers were amplified by the genes of the person who is the father. And whom do you know that has been shown in the past to have genes who work just like that? One tip: Sublime is a big fan of Dr. Nathaniel Essex's work.

But i would prefer if they were just clones, and together they can host the Phoenix force, but not alone.

Well Celeste(Right?) is kinda doing that by herself...@_@ Confusion...hurts my brain...

BTW I don't think there's a father....doesn't it say they're clones in the issue?

i really wouldnt be suprised if in the end they also try to tie the cuckoos to jean genetically as cheap explanation of why the PF has contacted them

Okay maybe I'm being a little unfair to the issue...I actually liked the Emma/Celeste moment...

I don't think they're 'hosts' of the Phoenix. Isn't the Phoenix beggining to take over them?

Originally posted by eternitygoddess
I don't think they're 'hosts' of the Phoenix. Isn't the Phoenix beggining to take over them?

It is but in Warsong....they said even Jean couldn't control it...so unless they're retconning the meaning of host...I honestly don't know?

^Maybe they were referring to Jean previously, before she became White Phoenix.

This is why I hate Marvel sometimes. They re-define everything. Just stick to the definition. Now there's going to be a whole debate of whether or not the Cuckoos are Omegas.

Originally posted by eternitygoddess
^Maybe they were referring to Jean previously, before she became White Phoenix.

This is why I hate Marvel sometimes. They re-define everything. Just stick to the definition. Now there's going to be a whole debate of whether or not the Cuckoos are Omegas.

Well they can only be Omegas when stated on panel...otherwise...they're not....

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well Celeste(Right?) is kinda doing that by herself...@_@ Confusion...hurts my brain...

BTW I don't think there's a father....doesn't it say they're clones in the issue?

No, they haven't said it. If Sublime took her eggs, it is most likely that he intended to use someone's sperm on it. And considering he's a fan of Essex, i could see him linked with Sinister, and therefore getting the material of Sinny's favorite Alpha.

Originally posted by Omega-level
No, they haven't said it. If Sublime took her eggs, it is most likely that he intended to use someone's sperm on it. And considering he's a fan of Essex, i could see him linked with Sinister, and therefore getting the material of Sinny's favorite Alpha.

Not necessarily when we clone a person...we need their sex cells....since they never mentioned anything of a sperm donor....I think it's safe to say that they are clones...not to mention that there's no variation...between Emma and the Cuckoos...

Aren't all Phoenix hosts suppose to be Omega-Level?

Originally posted by eternitygoddess
Aren't all Phoenix hosts suppose to be Omega-Level?

It might have been retconned...heck everything involving the Phoenix gets retconned.....Brubaker was talking about making it a Seperate Cosmic Entity again....and ignoring everything that happened in New X-Men, Endsong and Warsong..

^My good lord! Can't they just settle on SOMETHING?!

Uh...I'm getting more and more anxious every time a cover is released.(And not in a good way)

http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/580new_storyimage4901141_full.jpg

It's not great but it's not that bad... the cover I mean.

I'm not sure if they're clones per se. They harvested Emma's eggs.

If they used Emma's eggs for a cloning procedure then the Cuckoos would only have her mitochondrial DNA. Maybe they're made from fertilising Emma's eggs, then genetic manipulation to make them stronger etc, then cloning them to make an army of them.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's not great but it's not that bad... the cover I mean.

I'm not sure if they're clones per se. They harvested Emma's eggs.

If they used Emma's eggs for a cloning procedure then the Cuckoos would only have her mitochondrial DNA. Maybe they're made from fertilising Emma's eggs, then genetic manipulation to make them stronger etc, then cloning them to make an army of them.

It's not so much the art of the cover itself...it's what the cover implies...who know's maybe they'll surprise me.

But didn't it work for Dolly the Sheep?(The mitochondrial DNA thing)...the reason why I'm so fixated with this method...is because the Cuckoos seem like they aged rapidly...just like Dolly's clone.

I guess, your theory is just as plausable...wouldn't that induce a large amount of parent/child variation though...?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It's not so much the art of the cover itself...it's what the cover implies...who know's maybe they'll surprise me.

But didn't it work for Dolly the Sheep?(The mitochondrial DNA thing)...the reason why I'm so fixated with this method...is because the Cuckoos seem like they aged rapidly...just like Dolly's clone.

I guess, your theory is just as plausable...wouldn't that induce a large amount of parent/child variation though...? The cloning process for Dolly was basically the nuclear genetic material is removed from an ovum, the intended clone nucleus is taken from a somatic cell and microinjected into the "empty" ovum, and then cell division is jumpstarted.

If this process was performed with Emma's eggs they wouldn't really be clones of her at all. She'd just have provided the eggs in which the donor material for cloning was injected.

So that's why I thought they probably fertilised her eggs, maybe genetically manipulated them or chose the most powerful, and cloned them.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The cloning process for Dolly was basically the nuclear genetic material is removed from an ovum, the intended clone nucleus is taken from a somatic cell and microinjected into the "empty" ovum, and then cell division is jumpstarted.

If this process was performed with Emma's eggs they wouldn't really be clones of her at all. She'd just have provided the eggs in which the donor material for cloning was injected.

So that's why I thought they probably fertilised her eggs, maybe genetically manipulated them or chose the most powerful, and cloned them.

Ah I see...but the somatic cell nucleus would have had to come from Emma then right? So wouldn't that mean that Emma also provided the somatic cell nucleus?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Ah I see...but the somatic cell nucleus would have had to come from Emma then right? So wouldn't that mean that Emma also provided the somatic cell nucleus? Well that was why I'm not sure whether or not the girls are clones of Emma, or whether they're just biologically her children and clones of each other, since I think it only says Emma's eggs were taken.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Well that was why I'm not sure whether or not the girls are clones of Emma, or whether they're just biologically her children and clones of each other, since I think it only says Emma's eggs were taken.

Hmm...good point...thanks for the clearing things up...and sorry about how long it took for me to catch on...I've fallen behind in my Clinical Disease and Genetics module.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Hmm...good point...thanks for the clearing things up...and sorry about how long it took for me to catch on...I've fallen behind in my Clinical Disease and Genetics module. Tsk tsk. Too much partying.

FYI Vulcan just got pwned by Gladiator.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Tsk tsk. Too much partying.

FYI Vulcan just got pwned by Gladiator.

Heh...it's just so hard find the right balance.

To be honest I never saw that coming...but there's going to be a round #2...so we'll just have to wait and see..
http://www.marvel.com/comics/onsale/covers/0207/UNCXM483.jpg

Curse these deceiving covers...

BTW Havok and Polaris...may be able to open up Stargates? Wha?

http://www.popcultureshock.com/uncanny-x-men-481-preview/40740/

oh lordie @___@; im twice as confused as before.. i actually liked the warsong spin off before they made all this cloning biological confusing PF BULLSXXT. =____=; right when i thought I had a clear understanding of the phoenix.. they go and fxxk it up.

i know you guys probably dont have the answers to these questions but just gonna ask anyways.. i thought jean was the phoenix? if so, then how can she not have control over it? not even as the white phoenix of the crown? or is the white phoenix the one that has the MOST control over the PF?

also the cover with emma holding the baby in her diamond form.. is this implying that emma knew about the cuckoo's all along? as her own children? it has kinda been hinted though.. "it's alright scott, these are my girls. the cuckoo's" and there is the fact that emma favors them above the rest of her students and she trys to protect them so much too. Even going as far as mentally manipulate scott into attacking logan. As well there was always the "special connection" that the cuckoo's shared with miss frost. hmm.. now that you think about it its been hinted for a while now =\

bah i still dont like it tho. >

For some reason....I thought this issue was slightly better...well now for a question.

Did the Cuckoos change into Diamond Form on the last page?

Looked like it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Looked like it.

So that means they're able to use telepathy and Diamond Form similtaneously?

Funny enough I was looking at an issue of Unlimited X-Men the other day...and found something really interesting.

http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/2968/xunlimitedv104204rougheey4.th.jpg


http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/4493/xunlimitedv104210rougheyg3.th.jpghttp://img282.imageshack.us/img282/5702/xunlimitedv104211roughexc5.th.jpghttp://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4803/xunlimitedv104212rougheub5.th.jpghttp://img320.imageshack.us/img320/4531/xunlimitedv104213roughefv5.th.jpghttp://img338.imageshack.us/img338/3138/xunlimitedv104214roughemm9.th.jpg

Phoenix Warsong #5...preview...
http://www.popcultureshock.com/2006/40957/40957_1.jpg

http://www.popcultureshock.com/x-men-phoenix-warsong-5-preview/40957/

wow... yet another blatant copy... some might say homage, but it hasnt been that long since endsong...

oh god. this is not looking good

Originally posted by joelchong
oh god. this is not looking good

Someone please tell me that the "emma clones" lose the shift to diamond state power when this ends....

Grant Morisson's perfect creations are now just...clones....

How can they turn to diamond anyway? in astonishing wasnt it revealed that Emma's secondary mutation was created by cassandra Nova...not unlocked...created....

Guess that was another fake- supressed memory Cassandra gave Emma

Originally posted by Ryonslaught
Someone please tell me that the "emma clones" lose the shift to diamond state power when this ends....

Grant Morisson's perfect creations are now just...clones....

How can they turn to diamond anyway? in astonishing wasnt it revealed that Emma's secondary mutation was created by cassandra Nova...not unlocked...created....

Guess that was another fake- supressed memory Cassandra gave Emma

I think her secondary mutation was always there just triggered by Cassandra Nova. Just like how Xavier's telekinesis was triggered by Nova when she possessed his body. Emma also seems to have latent telekinesis which explains the Cuckoos telekinesis.

But yeah they're all going to die at the end of this arc...and it's suppose to have a major impact on New X-Men.

wow... that sucks

ditto

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
But yeah they're all going to die at the end of this arc...and it's suppose to have a major impact on New X-Men.


What the #@* ?!

Ok marvel this "neo mutant massacre" is getting way out of hand!

I have the feeling that Marvel went to the trouble of a 5 part phoenix series just so they could right this particular page:

Spoilers:
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/8467/img024kl8.jpg

Not particularly happy with the story but it was better then Endsong.

huh? so does this mean there's going to be another phoenix XXXsong? i have to say emma looks quite unproportioned in that page. anyway so what does this mean? is emma going to seek her vengeance in jean grey? sigh i have no idea how this is "essential to understanding the phoenix" as it was supposed to be apparently.

Originally posted by joelchong
huh? so does this mean there's going to be another phoenix XXXsong? i have to say emma looks quite unproportioned in that page. anyway so what does this mean? is emma going to seek her vengeance in jean grey? sigh i have no idea how this is "essential to understanding the phoenix" as it was supposed to be apparently.

I don't think it's Jean Grey I think it's the Phoenix Force itself...poor Emma though she doesn't stand a chance.
At least we now know why she couldn't contain the Phoenix in Endsong...it wasn't because she was a weak telepath it was because she lacked inner strength character wise unlike Jean Grey and Celeste.

Ok so....at the begining of the story Emma hates Jean because of past transgressions ....now the pheonix....or was it Jean?......are'nt they the same? well they were'nt ...then they were.....now they'r not?.....anyway yeah....at the end of this story we have Emma Hating the Jean/Pheonix being even more and for good reason.......


Did I miss something or was this to help with the pheonix Mythos in some way? We lost Morissons stand out new creations for this?

"essential to understanding the phoenix"

Yeah and Jean Grey stays Dead!

very dissapointing this warsong is,i dont believe we lost morrisons creations,the three are still alive(they just have diamond hearts now with fractions of the phoenix yeesh)
not that i care about them or morrison(i stay away from all his work bleh) but this whole story was just a way to bring in the phoenix's name and use it for popularity

i know its comics but how does your heart being diamond mean you cant feel anything

Originally posted by starlock

i know its comics but how does your heart being diamond mean you cant feel anything?

Comic logic my friend......

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I don't think it's Jean Grey I think it's the Phoenix Force itself...poor Emma though she doesn't stand a chance.
At least we now know why she couldn't contain the Phoenix in Endsong...it wasn't because she was a weak telepath it was because she lacked inner strength character wise unlike Jean Grey and Celeste.

Jean Grey is the Phoenix Force theyre one and the same thats what Endsong established. Dont get confused by Warsongs appearance of the firebird without Jean Grey. The Phoenix that appearred in Warsong was after all just a fragment of the Force that is Jean Grey.

Jean Grey is a flip side to the Force, one of its forms, but very much the same thing.

Emma couldnt contain the Force because the Phoenix is a Force that among other things embodys the passion and emotion of creation. That is why it is such a hard power to rein in. Emma had learned to survive life through being cynical and emotionally detached, thats why she was an unsuitable recipient.

The Cuckoos through emotionally detaching themselves at the end made themselves unsuitable hosts for the Phoenix fragements, therefore preventing it from working through them.

That story was the biggest pile of sh*t out! I am so disappointed. It taught us nothing new with regards to the Phoenix. We already knew that one of its roles was to perpetuate the creation cycle and burn away that which would impede evolution/lifes progression. The point has been stated throughout continuity and as recently as X-men Forever and Morissons New X-men. There was just no need for this mini.

At least Endong cemented back into continuity the original but later retconned concept that Jean Grey and the Force were one and the same thing. Endsong was much better in its execution and at least made a change to the Phoenix mythos.

Hmm...one and the same..that's a bit confusing...she is the top avatar but the PF has it's own consciousness...it doesn't necessarily mean she is the Force entirely. Anyway thought you should know that Burbaker said he wants to go back to making it a separate entity and ignore Endsong/Warsong. Also Korvus guy was a Phoenix Host before Jean Grey ever came to be.

Well Celeste was an exception to the rule...each Cuckoo seemed to represent a different side to Emma. Sophie, Esme, Phoebe, Mindee all different aspects to her personality. Celeste must have been the part of her she lost a very long time ago.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Hmm...one and the same..that's a bit confusing...she is the top avatar but the PF has it's own consciousness...it doesn't necessarily mean she is the Force entirely. Anyway thought you should know that Burbaker said he wants to go back to making it a separate entity and ignore Endsong/Warsong. Also Korvus guy was a Phoenix Host before Jean Grey ever came to be.

Given that the Force was manifesting as Jean Grey in the previous multiverse as depicted on panel, Korvus being a host a few hundred years back is irrelevant.

Endsong showed that Jean and the Phoenix Force are one and the same. She is one of its faces. Its prime avatar. Endsong showed that parts of the Force or parts of Jean Grey can seperate from the main and possess other hosts and still be referred to on panel as the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well Celeste was an exception to the rule...each Cuckoo seemed to represent a different side to Emma. Sophie, Esme, Phoebe, Mindee all different aspects to her personality. Celeste must have been the part of her she lost a very long time ago.

Nice...but its still speculation.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Given that the Force was manifesting as Jean Grey in the previous multiverse as depicted on panel, Korvus being a host a few hundred years back is irrelevant.

Endsong showed that Jean and the Phoenix Force are one and the same. She is one of its faces. Its prime avatar. Endsong showed that parts of the Force or parts of Jean Grey can seperate from the main and possess other hosts and still be referred to on panel as the Phoenix Force.



Nice...but its still speculation.

I can see that she's one of its faces but she's hardly the entire PF when you have a seperate consciousness talking to her? A seperate mind...

Intruiging...when was the force manifesting as Jean Grey in the previous multiverse?

BTW Celeste was able to control and use the PF to do Phoenix Work...which sort of clearly shows that she's able to act as a host for it.

And looking back at my post when I said I don't think it's Jean Grey I meant that I don't think that Emma is angry with Jean Grey I think she's angry with the Cosmic Phoenix Force itself. The Jean we know and the PF seem to have two seperate consciences.

This was definitely a disappointing series. Marvel played up the Phoenix game to rake in some cash. It didn't feature Jean Grey at all and neither 'laid the foundation for Jean Grey to come' or 'explained Phoenix anymore'.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I can see that she's one of its faces but she's hardly the entire PF when you have a seperate consciousness talking to her? A seperate mind...

Of course shes not the entire Phoenix Force. Shes one of its faces, one of its personalities as it were but still very much one and the same as the Force. Unlike hosts like Rachel and Giraud she is literally a part of the fabric of the Force. When the Force got shattered it was HER pieces she had to find.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Intruiging...when was the force manifesting as Jean Grey in the previous multiverse?

X-men adventures depicts the previous multiverse that existed before the current one. It is referred to in the bios of Galactus, Phoenix and LT.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
BTW Celeste was able to control and use the PF to do Phoenix Work...which sort of clearly shows that she's able to act as a host for it.

And looking back at my post when I said I don't think it's Jean Grey I meant that I don't think that Emma is angry with Jean Grey I think she's angry with the Cosmic Phoenix Force itself. The Jean we know and the PF seem to have two seperate consciences.

The Force is indestructible mutable energy. It can divide many times over and each part would be a fully functioning Phoenix and each one would still be referred to as the Phoenix Force because thats what they would be. The "Phoenix Force" of Endsong wasnt the Force entire but merely a shard of Jean. As was the Force of Warsong. Being able to manifest a separate consciousness doesnt translate into Jean and Phoenix being two seperate things.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
X-men adventures depicts the previous multiverse that existed before the current one. It is referred to in the bios of Galactus, Phoenix and LT.

You mean that comic based off TAS where Juggernaut gets pwned by Gladiator? Isn't that non-canon? Do the bios say the force manifested as Jean Grey in the previous multiverse?



Why not...I mean a seperate consciousness that's all knowing etc...could automatically translate to a seperate being. The consciousness is there to guide Jean isn' t it. It's like her cosmic awareness except it's a seperate from her own consciousness...isn't that who the POTWC answers to?

From what I get Jean is the Head Honcho avatar. The Heart of the Entire Phoenix Force i.e. The M'kraan Crystal is the consciousness and this is what guides Jean and the other avatars.

Have you seen this yet?

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6959/allnewofficialhandbookocw1.th.jpghttp://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8207/allnewofficialhandbookobb7.th.jpg