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Setting Trayus Academy Malachor V (everybody is at there prime)

Exar Kun stalls Ragnos
Luke beats Shimmra
Palpatine owns Hanharr

The trio gang up on Ragnos and kill him.

Ragnos eats Kun, Luke beats Shimmra, Palpatine eats Hanharr...

Luke and Palpatine try to take Ragnos and fail miserably.

Originally posted by Razielim
Exar Kun stalls Ragnos
Luke beats Shimmra
Palpatine owns Hanharr

The trio gang up on Ragnos and kill him. Did you read what i said EVERYBODY IN THERE PRIME MARKA RAGNOS TO DUMBASS
RAGNOS HAS ENOUGH PHYSICAL POWER TO CRUSH KUN, BESIDES HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE SITH ARTS BY TRILLIONS OF LIGHTYEARS OUTCLASSED KUN ,SINCE SADOW PASSED DOWNED ONLY LITTLE STUFF TO NADD,NADD BARELY TAUGHT KUN,SO BY THAT HIS WOULD PROBABLY USE KUN AMULET AGAINST HIM BY BLOWING IT TO HELL



And how does Palpatine own Hanharr he's as insane as Palpatine ever got and more, Plus his buttwoopin frenzy increases his strength to phenomonal levels and he would probably destroy Palp's lightsaber with his strength combined with duel vibroswords, he wouldn't even notice any lightning

Ragnos is the ultimate power in the universe... he kills them all by just looking at them.

More likely scenario:
1Ragnos pwns the hell out of kun in 2 seconds
2Ragnos assist Shimmra with Luke and they crush
3Palpatine realizes this and is distracted therefore Hanharr rips him in half

Actually:

Kun could at least hold Ragnos off for a little while.

Luke WTFpwns Shimmra.

Palpatine WTFpwns Hanharr.

So, if Kun dies, Luke engages Ragnos - holds him off a bit longer, and Palpatine transports his ass into outer space where dies in the vaccuum.

I'm being silly. Lol.

Originally posted by Escape81
Actually:

Kun could at least hold Ragnos off for a little while.

Luke WTFpwns Shimmra.

Palpatine WTFpwns Hanharr.

So, if Kun dies, Luke engages Ragnos - holds him off a bit longer, and Palpatine transports his ass into outer space where dies in the vaccuum. Shimmra put up a togh fight last time and Ragnos would Crushingly pwn kun Hanharr rips Palp's in half Luke emptys his bowels and bladder

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
Did you read what i said EVERYBODY IN THERE PRIME MARKA RAGNOS TO DUMBASS
RAGNOS HAS ENOUGH PHYSICAL POWER TO CRUSH KUN, BESIDES HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE SITH ARTS BY TRILLIONS OF LIGHTYEARS OUTCLASSED KUN ,SINCE SADOW PASSED DOWNED ONLY LITTLE STUFF TO NADD,NADD BARELY TAUGHT KUN,SO BY THAT HIS WOULD PROBABLY USE KUN AMULET AGAINST HIM BY BLOWING IT TO HELL



And how does Palpatine own Hanharr he's as insane as Palpatine ever got and more, Plus his buttwoopin frenzy increases his strength to phenomonal levels and he would probably destroy Palp's lightsaber with his strength combined with duel vibroswords, he wouldn't even notice any lightning

Wait... Hanharr...

The WOOKIE from KOTOR II?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Originally posted by Escape81
Wait... Hanharr...

The WOOKIE from KOTOR II?!?!?!?!?!?!?! yup

No, no, no, and no.

1. NJO Luke fought an army of Vongs and then owned Shimmra. I'm sorry, but Shimmra's going down. He is WTF-pwned.

2. The Wookie from KOTOR II, no matter how insane he is, is not going to own any incarnation of Sidious. Sidious is quicker, has a weapon which can slice through flesh, and he has the Force - and a frightening grasp of it, I might add.

Hanharr bites the big one. Badly.

3. Kun may die. He may not. I think that Kun, Luke, and DE Palpatine could destroy Ragnos.

Hanharr Needs one hit to connect with Palp's saber it is destroyed Palp's is shocked HAnharr rips him in half He Is So retardedly tough any thing te force does Hanharr won't even notice

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
Hanharr Needs one hit to connect with Palp's saber it is destroyed Palp's is shocked HAnharr rips him in half He Is So retardedly tough any thing te force does Hanharr won't even notice

Umm . . . no.

1. Palpatine can obliterate entire fleets of ships with the Force.
2. Palpatine can throw Force Lightning which can 'mortally wound' its victim.
3. Palpatine is so damn fast and agile. Faster than the eye can see.
4. Palpatine is adept at Dun Moch - capable of tossing massive objects with frightening ease.

He OWNS Hanharr.

Originally posted by Escape81
Umm . . . no.

1. Palpatine can obliterate entire fleets of ships with the Force.
2. Palpatine can throw Force Lightning which can 'mortally wound' its victim.
3. Palpatine is so damn fast and agile. Faster than the eye can see.
4. Palpatine is adept at Dun Moch - capable of tossing massive objects with frightening ease.

He OWNS Hanharr. what are you one of those people who woould blow him if you had a chance to

Originally posted by Escape81
Umm . . . no.

1. Palpatine can obliterate entire fleets of ships with the Force.
2. Palpatine can throw Force Lightning which can 'mortally wound' its victim.
3. Palpatine is so damn fast and agile. Faster than the eye can see.
4. Palpatine is adept at Dun Moch - capable of tossing massive objects with frightening ease.

He OWNS Hanharr. One thing, Dun Moch is a form used to spiritually defeat opponents. What you're thinking of would be a Force Throw. And e.l,m,t,i,(r k), don't be rude to other members like that.

O.K. but it is probably true though

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
O.K. but it is probably true though

No, I'm one of the people who understands that a Wookie hasn't a chance against a Dark Lord of the Sith.

are too

dee two

Did you read what i said EVERYBODY IN THERE PRIME MARKA RAGNOS TO DUMBASS
RAGNOS HAS ENOUGH PHYSICAL POWER TO CRUSH KUN, BESIDES HIS KNOWLEDGE OF THE SITH ARTS BY TRILLIONS OF LIGHTYEARS OUTCLASSED KUN ,SINCE SADOW PASSED DOWNED ONLY LITTLE STUFF TO NADD,NADD BARELY TAUGHT KUN,SO BY THAT HIS WOULD PROBABLY USE KUN AMULET AGAINST HIM BY BLOWING IT TO HELL


lol ? Exar Kun studied much of Sadow's (He was second to Ragnos) stuff and mastered it to the extent of being able to tool reveared Jedi grandmasters and rip through Temple walls and flesh. Ragnos will beat him eventually, but Luke and Palpatine ground the other two.

if you're talking about vodo this has been discussed before
he was not a grand master and nothing says he was even that good (kun repeatedly tried to turn him as he was toying around)
and kun studyed hardly any of what sadow knew (although he admittedly still studeid a lot

besides sadow was pissed scared of ragnos even after his death(obeyed an order from his ghost) and we're talking about him at his prime not his deathbed (which he still was unchallenged)

Originally posted by Escape81
Actually:

Kun could at least hold Ragnos off for a little while.

Luke WTFpwns Shimmra.

Palpatine WTFpwns Hanharr.

So, if Kun dies, Luke engages Ragnos - holds him off a bit longer, and Palpatine transports his ass into outer space where dies in the vaccuum.

Shimrra actually gave NJO Luke a very hard time. I doubt he's that much better by DN.

Before or after Luke fought an army?

Originally posted by Escape81
No, no, no, and no.

1. NJO Luke fought an army of Vongs and then owned Shimmra. I'm sorry, but Shimmra's going down. He is WTF-pwned.

2. The Wookie from KOTOR II, no matter how insane he is, is not going to own any incarnation of Sidious. Sidious is quicker, has a weapon which can slice through flesh, and he has the Force - and a frightening grasp of it, I might add.

Hanharr bites the big one. Badly.

3. Kun may die. He may not. I think that Kun, Luke, and DE Palpatine could destroy Ragnos.

1.) Luke nearly lost to Shimmra. Fighting the vong was no big deal considering he just used his emarald lightning to instakill. Luke and Shimmra would fight for a while.

2.) WTF? The wookie gets owned by sith lightning. Fight over.

3.) Kun vs Ragnos would also take a while possibly even a stalemate.

The way I see it. Palps makes quick work of the wookie. It would be best if DE palps helped Exar with Ragnos because he has next to zero experience fightning the Vong and would not know what to do. Exar and Palps kill Ragnos and then they take on Shimrra.

The only reason Luke nearly lost was because of Shim using the lightsaber and Luke having just battled his entire army.

Doesn't Luke use his EL and kill them all?

Anyway..point is Shimrra is not bantha fodder. Luke fighting Shimrra is just as complicated as Exar fighting Ragnos.

Luke uses EL once on a slayer...he clears out the entire levels of the ship practically on his own

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
1.) Luke nearly lost to Shimmra. Fighting the vong was no big deal considering he just used his emarald lightning to instakill. Luke and Shimmra would fight for a while.

2.) WTF? The wookie gets owned by sith lightning. Fight over.

3.) Kun vs Ragnos would also take a while possibly even a stalemate.

The way I see it. Palps makes quick work of the wookie. It would be best if DE palps helped Exar with Ragnos because he has next to zero experience fightning the Vong and would not know what to do. Exar and Palps kill Ragnos and then they take on Shimrra.

1. Um... Luke fought an army that stood between him and Shimmra, and he still defeated the Vong Overlord. Legacy of The Force Luke would defeat Shimmra. It may take a few minutes.

2. Um... you and I agree, then.

3. Okay... we still agree. Then, Luke and Palpatine help Kun own Ragnos.

I think Kun and Palps would kill Ragnos first before Shimrra drops. Then assist Luke.

How did Luke kill the army exactly? The force. Lightsaber? How..

Thats great but as you can see the thread says NJO Luke.

Sorry my responses are out of order.

Presumably saber? That's what he used during most of the entire part of the book.

How? Vong are lightsaber resistant.

Since when? I could give you about fifteen Vong killed or maimed by sabers just off the top of my head

Since The foot soldiers of the Yuuzhan Vong wear living crabs for armor. The crab is quite powerful on defense, able to deflect even a lightsaber under many circumstances. The armor can also regenerate.

That never stopped Luke...just pierce the armor with a strong enough attack or attack where the armor isn't covering

Thats hard to spot on a non-force being.

Well, after five years warring with them...

So, he had 5 years of experience and he could attack the weak spots of the Vong making quick work of them. I dont think Luke really struggled at all when fighting them.

Ragnos is the strongest individually, but i doubt he can hold both Kun and Sidious before Shimrra drops and rapes him.

Ragnos's team is simply obliterated, plain and simple

Luke beats Shimmra after a slightly difficult fight, Exar Kun takes Hanharr pretty easily and Ragnos should be able to pretty much own Sidious as of ROTJ. Then Luke and Kun completely tool Ragnos.

Where does it say this is ROTJ Palpatine?

Emperor Palpatine at his peak is in ROTJ.

Originally posted by Count Kent
Emperor Palpatine at his peak is in ROTJ.

Uh, Sidious in his prime would be in DE. DE Sidious would literally demolish ROTJ Sidious, and then piss on his remains.

DE = Dark Empire = Sidious' peak.

He is no longer Emperor Palpatine by DE.

Actually, he still is....he's Emperor of the Empire.

And Motoko, great to see you back

No he is not. He is a ghost emperor. He is not officialy Emperor Palpatine.

They call him 'My Emperor', that's good enough for me

He still rules over an Empire. He is an Emperor. And his name is Palpatine.

"Emperor Palpatine".

He is not the official emperor. Point moot.

Originally posted by Count Kent
He is not the official emperor. Point moot.

Yes, he is the official emperor. He RULES over the Empire, therefore he is the emperor. He took control after Thrawn's death, reformed the Empire.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Yes, he is the official emperor. He RULES over the Empire, therefore he is the emperor. He took control after Thrawn's death, reformed the Empire.

I recommend that you read DE because you are extremely uninformed on the matter. He was no longer the official emperor. Only a bunch of people knew he was alive.

No, actually everyone knew he was back as of the battle of Mon Calimari...He reunited the empire almost entirely

You are just being ignorant LS. Re-read DE. You seriously need to.

Originally posted by Count Kent
I recommend that you read DE because you are extremely uninformed on the matter. He was no longer the official emperor. Only a bunch of people knew he was alive.

Really? Just so happens the intro. acknowledges him as Emperor Palpatine on Dark Empire II #4:

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/8536/z0mgdeempire27wh.th.jpg

Just click on the picture. The opening even says it. Am I uninformed now, Clarky? Seems you are, big boy.

That is fabricated.

No, it's not. You can confirm at swcomics.com

Originally posted by Count Kent
That is fabricated.

OMG, do you want the link? Read the comic, since you seem to have it because I'm "uninformed", eh?Here, noob.

Oh you're talking about the non-EU version. Oh right. However this is a forum for the EU version of star wars.

Dark Empire II is EU.

Originally posted by Count Kent
Oh you're talking about the non-EU version. Oh right. However this is a forum for the EU version of star wars.

That's from Dark Empire, you tool. It is EU - it takes place after the movies, it's a comic - it's EU, troll. Oh, and here's another where even the omniscient narrator states him as "Emperor Palpatine":

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/205/deempire28mh.th.jpg

Are you done making zero sense, troll?

The evrsion of DE that you are reffering to is non-EU.

Show us this EU version then.

Sorry, there's only ever been one version of DE, trolly boy

Nuh huh.

However let's drop this discussion.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Show us this EU version then.

Originally posted by Count Kent
The evrsion of DE that you are reffering to is non-EU.

What are you talking about?! There is only one version...actually you're right that "evrsion" of DE is wrong, but that version is right. Learn to spell, and know your facts before you type - better yet before you use any form of communication.

Seriously, quit trolling just because you were wrong.

Oh snap.

Originally posted by Count Kent
However let's drop this discussion.

Everything other than the movies is considered Expanded Universe material. Comics, books, blah blah.

Dark Empire is EU.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ragnos's team is simply obliterated, plain and simple

Ye except, Luke and possibly Kun die in the process

Originally posted by Deception
Ye except, Luke and possibly Kun die in the process

Why would Luke or Kun die over Sidious? Not to mention, it'd only be two on three because Hanharr is a non-factor.

Mm-hmm.

Hanharr is almost a non-factor. Luke, Kun, and Palpatine could take him with mere ease, even individually. Shimmra would be a challenge, but I think that Luke, Kun, and Palpatine could eventually best him as well, individually.

So, let's say if Kun or Luke keep Ragnos distracted, Palpatine would annihilate Hanharr. Kun or Luke could take Shimmra (as could Palpatine), and then when Shimmra and Hanharr are down for the count, the three WTFpwn Ragnos.

Hell - given the circumstances, Palpatine could just launch a Force Storm at Ragnos when he's done with Hanharr and then the rest of them team up and pwn Shimmra.

Either way Ragnos's team isn't likely to win, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Deception
Ye except, Luke and possibly Kun die in the process

Um... no. All of them have a risk of dying, and Luke and Kun are completely par with Palpatine.

Originally posted by Escape81
Mm-hmm.

Hanharr is almost a non-factor. Luke, Kun, and Palpatine could take him with mere ease, even individually. Shimmra would be a challenge, but I think that Luke, Kun, and Palpatine could eventually best him as well, individually.

So, let's say if Kun or Luke keep Ragnos distracted, Palpatine would annihilate Hanharr. Kun or Luke could take Shimmra (as could Palpatine), and then when Shimmra and Hanharr are down for the count, the three WTFpwn Ragnos.

Hell - given the circumstances, Palpatine could just launch a Force Storm at Ragnos when he's done with Hanharr and then the rest of them team up and pwn Shimmra.

Either way Ragnos's team isn't likely to win, in my opinion.

Ah, I would just like to point out a few things. I agree that Hanharr is a
non-factor, for sure. Now, Shimrra would be a challenge, I believe It could go either way, but most likely Luke and Exar could put the overlord down. I however dont think palpatine could come to close to beating Shimrra. Reason is he is a terrible duelist and his top arsenal is force powers which have no effect on Shimrra.

Ragnos does get WTFpwned.

Palpatine's an exceptional duelist, actually. Though Luke would be able to destroy Shimrra if he used the force to improve himself or if he was fresh to the fight

Palpatine compared to other jedi/sith he is a bad duelist. Lets recap.

Mace vs Sidious- Sidious gets beat and loses his saber

Yoda vs Palpatine- 2 min of saber fighting and then palpatine is done with it. He continues the fight with the force. It obvious he could not beat Yoda in a saber duel, must be why he blasted yoda's saber out of his hands.

Luke vs Sidious- They engage in a saber duel, Sidious ends up on the floor.

Lets face it, Palpatine is a great force user, no doubt about it. Lightsaber skills though? Minimal.

I dont understand what you mean by improve himself? Make his physical strength better?

Also, You said once that Luke uses very little energy because he is so powerful. I dont thing an army would make him exhausted. At best he is a bit fatigued, but then again he could heal himself through the force.

Considering he's facing two of the supreme duelists the galaxy's ever seen, especially when one of those losses is heavily debateable. And Sidious had beaten Luke once before, Luke won the second duel because he knew if he lost, Palpatine would have Leia and her son

Yes, and Luke is considered one of those supreme duelists, yet he could barely make use of his lightsaber till he decapitated Shimrra. I firmly believe Shimrra could take Palpatine.

Getting his lightsaber kicked out of his hands is not up for debate. He was owned in the duel. People dont "plan" to be disarmed during a fight.
Especially against Mace. The same guy who disarmed Jango and then beheaded him.

You are forgetting that they are all in their prime, their peak of power, and that means this is DN Luke and DE Sidious and Regular ass darkside Kun, and regular ass raged wookie man, and shimmra is in his book stage, and Ragnos is the ultra uber ape that he really wants to be on the inside...

Shimrra could possibly be at his peak also. Now I said DN luke would win, Exar too possibly, but I dont think anyone from DE Luke or Palpatine would beat Shimrra.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Yes, and Luke is considered one of those supreme duelists, yet he could barely make use of his lightsaber till he decapitated Shimrra. I firmly believe Shimrra could take Palpatine.

Getting his lightsaber kicked out of his hands is not up for debate. He was owned in the duel. People dont "plan" to be disarmed during a fight.
Especially against Mace. The same guy who disarmed Jango and then beheaded him.

That'd be because Luke was exhausted after fighting a massive army without even using the force, and if Shimrra hadn't pulled out Anakin's saber, he'd never have trapped Luke

And according to the novelization, Palpatine dropped his speed and his guard when Mace sensed Anakin arriving, giving Mace the exact opening he needed.

Its DN Luke

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
That's from Dark Empire, you tool. It is EU - it takes place after the movies, it's a comic - it's EU, troll. Oh, and here's another where even the omniscient narrator states him as "Emperor Palpatine":

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/205/deempire28mh.th.jpg

Are you done making zero sense, troll?
why is it young emperor palpatine? is this the clone one?

That makes Shimrra the smarter fighter I believe?

Uh, huh now how does that work? How does Palpatine see through mace? Oh yeah..he cant. Mace can see right through Palpatine though.

Since when? Palpatine is a master of seeing through people and his only shatterpoint was his trust of Anakin.

And once more: stop ignoring Luke had just fought an army, wasn't using the force and was exhausted?

And it's simple logic: Give a man an opening, he takes it

-1.) Bullshit, Palpatine among all people has weakneses. Good example is dueling. Anakin too.

I'm not ignoring he just fought a whole army, Here answer this question. Yoda- fought an army of clones to get to Palpatine then he confronted him. Did he lose becuase he was exhausted? No...

He takes what? Decapitates him, disarms him, jabs the saber through his. Takes his legs out, force pushes him out the window, force crush... the possiblities are endless.

Which is why Palp is described as possibly one of the best swordsmen in saber history?

Because a Clone PATROL when you have help is comparable to levels of a ship of Vong? And when Luke wasn't even using the force to aid him?

And Palpatine gambled. It paid off...and generally, when you have level swords with another guy, it helps to take a punch or a kick, something physical...even a saber swing could be used so Palp allows himself to be disarmed

I saw more than 4 dozen clones firing lasers. ANd I dident see Yoda use the force on them either. Plus the guy was 900 years old and was tired after fighting with dooku for over 3 minutes.

Oh, so your telling me exhuastion is why Luke failed to beat Shimrra?
Is that why Yoda failed to beat Palpatine also!? Because he was a 900 year old grandmaster who mastered Ataru?

No..Sith dont gamble their life.* They are very self-centered people who dont care about anyone else. He would not risk dying just to convert anakin.

I need to go to a freinds hosue, hold up on the arguing for a few hours.

Yoda needs the force to fight period. And once more: Luke wasn't using the force to sustain himself, had just fought an army and the elite all on his own and was dealign with Shimrra well enough until he kill a saber on him....and even then Luke snatched it and slaughtered Shimrra. Shimrra lost or would have lost either way.

And Palpatine is a risk taker...and Sith generally gamble with their lives, they do it with every power play. Sidious has taken massive risks before, from allowing Grievous to mandhandle him, to being caught in fire fights and assassination attempts, to letting Luke take a swing at him with a saber and he risked his life with Maul

Palp would risk dying to convert Anakin...and wipe out then Jedi and gain control of the galaxy

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Uh, huh now how does that work? How does Palpatine see through mace? Oh yeah..he cant. Mace can see right through Palpatine though.
if he can see through palps how did he not know that palps was the sith Lord?

Akbar, there is a difference between fighting 10 clones and one thousand Vong... And where does it say that Yoda was tired after fighting Dooku for 3 minutes? When I run 1 km kinda fast, then I just stop to talk, then I breath very heaviley but I'm hardley tired. I can run in the same speed for 5 km or even more....

By that I meant he could spot weakpoints. If Mace had a suspition that Palps was the dark lord he could almost easily find out, but he hadent a clue who the Dark Lord was.

oh like shatterpoints, but palpatine took the republic to its knees, how could he not see shatterpoints in the republic?

Originally posted by kamikz
Akbar, there is a difference between fighting 10 clones and one thousand Vong... And where does it say that Yoda was tired after fighting Dooku for 3 minutes? When I run 1 km kinda fast, then I just stop to talk, then I breath very heaviley but I'm hardley tired. I can run in the same speed for 5 km or even more....

I assume you watched AOTC. Yoda was winded and exhasted. But that did not affect how he fought. Same with Luke.

Yeah, but sids doesn't need to use his saber, most of his fighting is with the force.

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
oh like shatterpoints, but palpatine took the republic to its knees, how could he not see shatterpoints in the republic?

He did sense a plot to destroy the jedi. He sensed something was out of place, but to me its like gambling. You cant always be too sure.

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
Yeah, but sids doesn't need to use his saber, most of his fighting is with the force.

Which shows he is not an exceptional duelist. His strong point is the force.

btw he dident fight sids in AOTC.

Considering Sidious is outright stated to be an exceptional and possibly one of the best duelists ever, I think that deals with that assumptions

@AdmiralAkbar: Right i was agreeing with you and arguing against kamikz

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
I assume you watched AOTC. Yoda was winded and exhasted. But that did not affect how he fought. Same with Luke.

I don't see where Yoda is so tired that everyone says he is. I just looked at AOTC, he does not sound very tired, he sounds like someone who talks with someone else while running a distance.. And breathing hard does not equal tired, and we did not see Yoda fight anymore, so you cannot say it didn't effect his performance, even if he was tired... Luke had been fighting off mabey thousands of Vong, and swinging your saber that much makes you tired, moving your arms over a thousand times makes you tired in your arms. This specifically effected Luke's performance because he came in a battle where his arms were needed with the Vong overlord.

Lol..arms tired?? When I get back home I'm gonna post more..

Of course, if you swing around alot you get tired in your arms, especially if you fight over a thousand lightsaber resistant (except at a few places) people at the same time, and have to kill all of them pretty quickly, your gonna have to swing as hell.
Let's take one of Muhammad Ali's boxing matches. He let his opponent strike him many many times until he at last fought back and knocked him out in 3 punches. Why? Cause the other was tired as hell after doing so...

Ok, lightsabers are wieghtless. Its like swinging a rather large feather around. I could do that for hours, not to mention a jedi who could strengthen himself through the force. Who said Luke fought the whole army at the same time.

Ah, there is a difference bewteen throwing tons of punches and missing your target and actaully landing them. Luke landed his hits.
Muhammed wasnt absorbing the hits, his strategy was to parry and dodge.

It's going to put serious exertion on your arms

So did he, he landed almost every hit...

And Luke had to cut through Vong armour, it's not just striking anywhere, that would be pretty intense. Also, moving your lightsaber so fast it looks like 20 would be pretty tiering.
And it's not just to move your hands fast, he actually has to concentrate and use real saber moves, and remember, Dooku and Kenobi got tired after about 1 minute of fighting, and when Dooku got tired he lost against Anakin. And yes, lightsabers are weightless, but actually moving your arms, dodging enemy attacks, running around trying to kill everything, blocking, and also moving your hands so fast that they are barley visible should be very, very tiering...

Lol actually, I don't remember why I'm debating this, it was the Yoda thing wasen't it? Is this off-topic?

Originally posted by kamikz
So did he, he landed almost every hit...

And Luke had to cut through Vong armour, it's not just striking anywhere, that would be pretty intense. Also, moving your lightsaber so fast it looks like 20 would be pretty tiering.
And it's not just to move your hands fast, he actually has to concentrate and use real saber moves, and remember, Dooku and Kenobi got tired after about 1 minute of fighting, and when Dooku got tired he lost against Anakin. And yes, lightsabers are weightless, but actually moving your arms, dodging enemy attacks, running around trying to kill everything, blocking, and also moving your hands so fast that they are barley visible should be very, very tiering...

Lol actually, I don't remember why I'm debating this, it was the Yoda thing wasen't it? Is this off-topic?

Luke, found weak spots, actually he hit the weak spots of the Vong. he dident drill the lightsaber into the armour until it penetrated, so that lessens the effort to kill the vong. What? Dooku lost because he was tired? Link..proof please. Luke was powered by the force, he wasnt doing all of this with extreme physical effort. Yoda gets pretty fatigued after flipping around for about 2 minutes or so, but that doesnt effect how he fights.

Dooku uses the force when he fights (powers his old body), still he got tired. (In novelization). Dooku got outmanuvered, much because it got to much and he started to get tired.

And because Luke knows weak spots means he is going to hit them every single time, when he throws around 20 hits in a second?

I don't see how it's possible that Yoda in less than 2 minutes Yoda gets tired (while using the force in his body more than Luke), while Luke when facing thousands of awesome combatents isen't going to be a bit tired at all?

He uses the force to enchance his physical strength. Even so Luke is not 90 years old. Dooku was an old ass man. Luke at best is maybe half if not less that age.

If he kills the vong in one spot, figures out its where they are weak after testing it on a few subjects you better damn believe he's going to continue doing it. If he hits 20 hits a second he should kill the vong warriors in about 10 seconds. Anyway..the warrior vong are weak according to jedi standards, the only challenging vong are the slayers. Luke did not fight a whole army of slayers.

Yoda is old, centuries older than Luke. He uses more force to compensate for his poor physical strength. Luke however is fresh and still young. So he uses less of the force to power his body.

Luke is over 50 years old, and I said he knew the weak points, but when hitting at such speed he is bound to miss sometime, especially when he has to dodge other attacks and stuff. And how much does age really matter? Doing something like this demands alot of physical strenght, you can't blame it all on the force saying "it will regain his strenght in one second", then age would not matter...

And Luke fought Slayers right after that, 4 could take out the second best jedi. And you know what? Kyp got tired as hell after fighting a SMALLER army than Luke, and he could not even take one slayer out of 4, he is younger than Luke, you said yourself that it mattered... No matter if the enemy you're fighting is not the strongest possible, fighting thousands is not an easy task, especially if they have lightsaber resistant armour...

Wait, are you actually saying he is going to defeat thousands of Vong in 10 seconds? 10 x 20 is 200, not 2000..

Dooku is older, but he also has a style that is made to keep his stamina better than other styles, and he is infusing his body with at least as much force as Luke... And Dooku is little over 80...

I said defeat one vong, if he is attacking at 20 hits per second. Try reading correctly.

The only challenge were the slayers, I'm not going to argue against that, but regaulr vong warriors are bantha fodder at the level of Luke Skywalker. Kyp might be younger than Luke, but Luke is >>>>than Kyp. In both the force and Dueling. Again lightsaber resistant armour wont help the weak spots of the vong. You assume he is infusing his body with at least as much force as luke. They have complete different saber styles.

Point is If Luke has the ability to spin his lightsaber faster than the eye can see and can hit someone 20 times before they reazlize it, and could create his own EL, which requires massive amounts of energy, then a see no reason he should have been tired after fighting the vong. Beating the army of vong is one of his less impressive feat compared to what he is shown he's capable of doing.

Because hitting 20 times in a second for god knows how long is going to be tough, very tough, not to talk about tiering for your arms. And again, how come he would always get a perfect hit at the weak spot, and you said he would kill one before it realized it, yes, that's true. But he is also going to waste about 10 hits on their armour, if he does that on every Vong it is going to be a lot of resistance. It's not like he can strike anywhere.

And yes, Luke's skill is above Kyp's, but what says his stamina is so much better? After all, he is fighting the bigger army, and faster, + 7 slayers, and he is older. Mabey he is not getting very, very tired, but it is going to be frustrating for his body, which will make him perform worse against Shimrra...

You should have clearified it a little more, you said, "if he hits 20 hits a second he should kill the vong warriors in about 10 seconds". You could have said "a" Vong warrior instead of "the" Vong warriorS.

I have to go to bed now, I will probably show up sometime tomorrow, hopefully... Bye.

I still don't think Shimmra could take DE Palpatine. ROTS Palpatine? Yup. But not DE.

That's just me.

Originally posted by kamikz
Because hitting 20 times in a second for god knows how long is going to be tough, very tough, not to talk about tiering for your arms. And again, how come he would always get a perfect hit at the weak spot, and you said he would kill one before it realized it, yes, that's true. But he is also going to waste about 10 hits on their armour, if he does that on every Vong it is going to be a lot of resistance. It's not like he can strike anywhere.

And yes, Luke's skill is above Kyp's, but what says his stamina is so much better? After all, he is fighting the bigger army, and faster, + 7 slayers, and he is older. Mabey he is not getting very, very tired, but it is going to be frustrating for his body, which will make him perform worse against Shimrra...

You should have clearified it a little more, you said, "if he hits 20 hits a second he should kill the vong warriors in about 10 seconds". You could have said "a" Vong warrior instead of "the" Vong warriorS.

I have to go to bed now, I will probably show up sometime tomorrow, hopefully... Bye.

He has a chance to kill the warrior in his first 20 hits. There is a good chance he could kill it. As I said before the vong warriors are not as strong as you make them out to be. Slayers I agree are very difficult they are the strongest of the warrior caste and have far better weaponry then regular vong. I dont think there will be any resistance, the armour does not deflect, it absorbs the damage, and then regenerates.

Ah, well we see mace punching faster than the eye can see. Mace punched Vastor 6 times in random areas before he could blink. Mace dismantled thousands of droids with his bare fists. Opposed to a lightsaber which can just cut through things easily. Punching requires great physical strength, especially when punching through durasteel. Is mace more powerful than DN luke? nop, dont think so. Was mace tired after fighting a whole army of battle droids? no...the clone wars cartoon shows it clearly.

Sorry, Dident mean to snap at you like that.

Originally posted by Escape81
I still don't think Shimmra could take DE Palpatine. ROTS Palpatine? Yup. But not DE.

That's just me.

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think DN luke would beat Shimrra, I think Kun would too, but DE palps is not as powerful as those two, and Luke had some difficulty with Shimrra. Possibly tired or not, the overlord still proved to be a challenge. DE palps got owned by Luke the second time.

That Palpatine's not as powerful at Kun? Especially by DE?

Nop, I think Kun is better than Palpatine. If Luke is on par with Kun then DE palps is worse.

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
are too

Don't Get Banned Young One

Luke's not on par with Kun, Luke's leaps and bounds above Kun

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think DN luke would beat Shimrra, I think Kun would too, but DE palps is not as powerful as those two, and Luke had some difficulty with Shimrra. Possibly tired or not, the overlord still proved to be a challenge. DE palps got owned by Luke the second time.

Define 'owned'. Does 'owned' imply an easy fight?

Once more, the first time Luke and Palpatine fought in DE, Palpatine crushed him. I strongly believe that Leia had something to do with that fight, unless Luke's abilities jumped levels in a year. Touche?

Secondly, Palpatine is on par with both Kun and Luke in terms of the Force.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Luke's not on par with Kun, Luke's leaps and bounds above Kun

Yep.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
He has a chance to kill the warrior in his first 20 hits. There is a good chance he could kill it. As I said before the vong warriors are not as strong as you make them out to be. Slayers I agree are very difficult they are the strongest of the warrior caste and have far better weaponry then regular vong. I dont think there will be any resistance, the armour does not deflect, it absorbs the damage, and then regenerates.

Ah, well we see mace punching faster than the eye can see. Mace punched Vastor 6 times in random areas before he could blink. Mace dismantled thousands of droids with his bare fists. Opposed to a lightsaber which can just cut through things easily. Punching requires great physical strength, especially when punching through durasteel. Is mace more powerful than DN luke? nop, dont think so. Was mace tired after fighting a whole army of battle droids? no...the clone wars cartoon shows it clearly.

Sorry, Dident mean to snap at you like that.

It's cool mate.

Well I guess they are worse than I made them out to be, but still, if it requires around 10 strikes to kill one, and there are mabey 1 thousand, then it requires him to strike 10 thousand times, that's pretty much. His arms would be sore as hell.

Nah the clone cartoons makes everybody a force god. If Mace could do that he would not need the 200 jedi on Geonosis, much less, not everyone would die. Thing is that Mace was in better physical shape than Luke, that is pretty clear, and Luke fought through thousands of more (and stronger) foes than Mace. Kyp got tired by a lesser army, is there any proof that Luke's physical strenght is above his or that he regained ALL his strenght (if any) with the force. The force can drain you if overused.

Well I guess there is no way we can convince eachother, there are so many different things to take account to, shall we agree to disagree?

Originally posted by Escape81
Define 'owned'. Does 'owned' imply an easy fight?

Once more, the first time Luke and Palpatine fought in DE, Palpatine crushed him. I strongly believe that Leia had something to do with that fight, unless Luke's abilities jumped levels in a year. Touche?

Secondly, Palpatine is on par with both Kun and Luke in terms of the Force.

Did mention the first fight? No...I said second time.

Ok force wise Palpatine is no weak link, but both combatants could take him down in a straight up lightsaber duel. Since Sidious's strong point seems to be the force. I dont see how he could beat a force immune monster like Shimrra.

Originally posted by kamikz
It's cool mate.

Well I guess they are worse than I made them out to be, but still, if it requires around 10 strikes to kill one, and there are mabey 1 thousand, then it requires him to strike 10 thousand times, that's pretty much. His arms would be sore as hell.

Nah the clone cartoons makes everybody a force god. If Mace could do that he would not need the 200 jedi on Geonosis, much less, not everyone would die. Thing is that Mace was in better physical shape than Luke, that is pretty clear, and Luke fought through thousands of more (and stronger) foes than Mace. Kyp got tired by a lesser army, is there any proof that Luke's physical strenght is above his or that he regained ALL his strenght (if any) with the force. The force can drain you if overused.

Well I guess there is no way we can convince eachother, there are so many different things to take account to, shall we agree to disagree?

I estimated about 10 strikes it could vary depending on where he hits them.

Ah, well EU books also portray everyone as force gods. Kyp and Luke moving blackholes, cloaking planets, creating force storms. And endless hyperboles. Clone War cartoons are just as canon as the books are. And please..nobody would watch a geonosis battle with Mace windu killing everyone. Anyway.. the area he was in was a closed space not open. He would have nowhere to run. Quantify stronger...Mace punched through! durasteel droids. Luke used a weapon. Luke is only like 10 or so years older than mace windu, and he can enchance his strength far better because he has a better grasp of the force. I dont think....Mace I think killed plenty of droids possibly even more than 1000 on Dantooine and Coruscant. Yeh, lol, but Luke would be far from draining his if he can do things like create a tangible illusion or even cloak a whole planet with the force and any other feats I missed out on.

Meh..I disagree that fighting a bunch of vong warriors tired Luke. I will say that the slayers might have possibly been hard to defeat, and proved challenging, but vong warriors...nah.
Luke dident have to take the approach of killing them with his lightsaber, after all he had EL. The instikill move.

NJO is crap. All their characters are way too strong.

It really gets my goat when people complain about NJO characters but praise people like Ragnos and Exar...

Palp, though, can also use the environment against Shimrra, so that's something...as a swordsman, he may not be able to finish Shim, but he's a very smart fighter.

Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
I estimated about 10 strikes it could vary depending on where he hits them.

Ah, well EU books also portray everyone as force gods. Kyp and Luke moving blackholes, cloaking planets, creating force storms. And endless hyperboles. Clone War cartoons are just as canon as the books are. And please..nobody would watch a geonosis battle with Mace windu killing everyone. Anyway.. the area he was in was a closed space not open. He would have nowhere to run. Quantify stronger...Mace punched through! durasteel droids. Luke used a weapon. Luke is only like 10 or so years older than mace windu, and he can enchance his strength far better because he has a better grasp of the force. I dont think....Mace I think killed plenty of droids possibly even more than 1000 on Dantooine and Coruscant. Yeh, lol, but Luke would be far from draining his if he can do things like create a tangible illusion or even cloak a whole planet with the force and any other feats I missed out on.

Meh..I disagree that fighting a bunch of vong warriors tired Luke. I will say that the slayers might have possibly been hard to defeat, and proved challenging, but vong warriors. ..nah.
Luke dident have to take the approach of killing them with his lightsaber, after all he had EL. The instikill move.

That's the thing, that's how Luke and Kyp are (since they only appear to be so good at that time) while Mace clearly was not that good... And Mace is not that big, there was still a huge place to be in, he could have taken out many at least, but he did not. And as I said, Mace is in much better physical shape than Luke is...
I've watched that cartoon too, and I would not say over 1 thousand, that big ship who knocked into the ground killed many of them as well, we saw Mace killing mabey 50 droids, then it slammed, there was a huge amount of dust coming to him, we see Mace kill some with the force then destroy the machine and jump to that kid... Btw, Mace can't even jump that far, that's far to long, if he could he could have jumped around the battlefield instead of using ships... Mace used a shitload amount of force too....

And the Vong are more formidable opponents than the battle droids, and Luke fought way more.. Then he fought Slayers, and he only used EL on the last one....

Luke might be able to control the force better or infuse it into his own body (possibly), but what says his stamina will be better for this? Mace had better physical shape too....

Even though Luke might not have seemed tired he could have been, his body should have been weakened also for the moment. If I lift my own body weight (like doing pull upps from an edge or something), it is enough with only some for me to loose against an equal opponent in an armwrestling match, because my arms are sore and tired...
Him being tired might be the reason Luke didn't use any force (except pulling the saber) against Shimrra...

Originally posted by Captain REX
Ragnos eats Kun, Luke beats Shimmra, Palpatine eats Hanharr...

Luke and Palpatine try to take Ragnos and fail miserably. kek

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
Hanharr Needs one hit to connect with Palp's saber it is destroyed Palp's is shocked HAnharr rips him in half He Is So retardedly tough any thing te force does Hanharr won't even notice

Lmao how is Hanharr even a factor here? Any duo on Team 2 could get a win.