Kain VS Dante

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Burning thought
Kain lord of vampires VS Dante, son of sparda


Both of them are fully powered and have full abilities, however Dante can only have 1 of each item, i.e Untouchables, vital etc etc and Kain starts of with a fully upgraded and charged reaver

Tallis
Kain

Big Sexy
If Dante transforms Kain is boned

Tallis
Not really Kain is an immortal. Thus Kain kills Dante

Kaithen
if his immortal ill go with Kain

Burning thought
Kain is immortal, teleports, thousands of years of fightning experiance, enormous strength and an indestructable sword that drains souls and blood all in one, also he is immune to sunlight, also he cannot actually die, he also has enormous TK abilties and can control people and objects easily with his mind

MadMel
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain is immortal, teleports, thousands of years of fightning experiance, enormous strength and an indestructable sword that drains souls and blood all in one, also he is immune to sunlight, also he cannot actually die, he also has enormous TK abilties and can control people and objects easily with his mind
took the words outta my mouth..kain'll pwn dante..
ps. hasnt this been done before??

Burning thought
well i looked but i didnt see it, theres a Dante+blade vs Kain+Kratos but their not single so i made one

Sam Z
Good one. I'll go with Kain...

thegmeister53
Kain hands down.

ExtraMision5555
What if dante goes into sparda mode?

ESB - 1138
Kain would win

MadMel
dante is immortal only for a period of time(sparda??)
kain is immortal 24/7...
do tha math..

dvampire
Dante wins, Kain can die and he doesn't have superhealing like Dante does.

Burning thought
erm...what Sh*t are yu smoking, Kain is a lord/god of vampires and can heal much faster than Dante and cannot die, kain slashes dante in half and laughs at the mess on the floor

thegmeister53
Originally posted by MadMel
dante is immortal only for a period of time(sparda??)
kain is immortal 24/7...
do tha math..

Uh.... Dante? big grin

DiVine-Hatred
Dante killed the devil.. or have you forgotten that..
Also in the gaming world no1 is completely invulnerable.. Kain can die lord of vampires or no. And even if he cant dante too damn fast noway Kain can kill him..

Tallis
Kain is faster than Dante

Sin Harvest
Kain wins. Dante cannot compare to the power that is Kain.

Burning thought
Originally posted by DiVine-Hatred
Dante killed the devil.. or have you forgotten that..
Also in the gaming world no1 is completely invulnerable.. Kain can die lord of vampires or no. And even if he cant dante too damn fast noway Kain can kill him..

it doesnt matter how fast anything is as long as its about the size of a human or maybe a few feet bigger, if their that size kain can instantly grab them in his TK power and make them kill themselves or remove their weapons so he can kill them, the only way to have a chance against him is to be immune to mind powers or be larger than about 9 feet, thing is most things that are large are also slow and so kain can dodge them easily but Kain is much much faster than dante

Sam Z
Originally posted by Burning thought
it doesnt matter how fast anything is as long as its about the size of a human or maybe a few feet bigger, if their that size kain can instantly grab them in his TK power and make them kill themselves or remove their weapons so he can kill them, the only way to have a chance against him is to be immune to mind powers or be larger than about 9 feet, thing is most things that are large are also slow and so kain can dodge them easily but Kain is much much faster than dante

Yeah, plus his soulreaver blade.

MadMel
damn sta-raight..kain wins..his TK pwns dante..i really wish they hurry up with the new game...im pretty sure there is one..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
from the dark chronical..its not the exact words, but its pretty close...erm

Burning thought
yes i think i read somewhere that the makers have still got one left in the series to do

Big Sexy
Dante would smoke Kaine. At base hes still nothing but a vampire which Dante has shown to be able to take.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Big Sexy
Dante would smoke Kaine. At base hes still nothing but a vampire which Dante has shown to be able to take.

Nothing but a vampire? He can controle time, dimension, earth elemets, can steal souls and he is immortal. Dante doesn't stand a chance against Kane.

Burning thought
if Kain really wants to make it look like a fight he would throw dante around a bit with TK, then he would throw all his weapons away from him before slashing dante in half

if he couldnt be bothered with a fight he would end it quick with TK chains to hold Dante in place, lazily walk up to him and chop his head off

come to think of it, kain could do this bare handed

Kayne Archeron
if dante can have one of each item, he can use a holy water (which Kain would be weak against) and use that moment of weakness to defeat him. it would definately be close, but Dante would win. he did defeat the Devil, which does happen to be a higher ranking demon than a vampire lord

Sam Z
And how exactly is Dante going to defeat him? Holy water wouldn't have any serious effect on Kain, he'll simply reform. Then he will paralize Dante and cut his head. Kain defeated Elder God that happen to be higher ranking than the devil and again, Kain is immortal, there is nothing Dante could do.

Burning thought
first of all Dante didnt defeat the devil, he defeated Mundus, an invented demon emperor who is nothing like the devil, he is basically a demonic three eyes mass of hands inside a statue, hes nothing compared to the devil and ranking means nothing in a duel one on one, an army general is not higher ranking than the president but if he had a machine gun he would win over president easily so thats an example

Also holy water wouldnt be enough, it would destroy kains material form only for him to reform again and kill dante easily, dante would not be able to use anything anyway, how can he use any of his weapons or holy water when his traped in a telekentic chains so he cannot move, then Kain simply kill him easily, simple, this has already been debated really, Kain wins

SpadeKing
Originally posted by Big Sexy
If Dante transforms Kain is boned

yep and dante is immortal too either that or he just never dies from stuff that should cut his body in halves. and he can just slow time, cut him into pieces and sine he has all of his abilities super charge his guns and decimate the body chunks that were left over

Burning thought
dante loses, closed

SpadeKing
yep kain lost closed

Burning thought
...... lost to what his completly immortal unless Raziel enters this match, this is becoming childish

SpadeKing
nope then Rayne comes and beats the hell out of Kain for not taking his kid to school no expression

Burning thought
Originally posted by SpadeKing
nope then Rayne comes and beats the hell out of Kain for not taking his kid to school no expression

rayne and kain are married in a diffrent thread galaxy big grin

Sam Z
Originally posted by SpadeKing
yep kain lost closed

no

SpadeKing
Originally posted by Burning thought
rayne and kain are married in a diffrent thread galaxy big grin

but they are still married yes

Generic Hero
In all likelyhood, Dante wins.

Dante is faster, Kain is relatively slow in Blood Omen, Blood Omen 2 and in Defiance. He's not as fast as Dante (especially in demon form) and nowhere near as fast as Vampires from other fiction.

Kain's telekenisis is good, but boss-tier characters can resist it. He also runs out of TK and cannot move while holding someone in place. He cannot hold Dante in the air and cut him in half.

Kain has never removed someone's weapons with tk before. He has never demonstrated that kind of mastery over telekenisis.

Kain isn't indestructable. He's immortal, which means he's ageless, however he can be killed. In Soul Reaver 2, Kain would have died if Raziel stabbed him in the neck. Dante's taken much tougher blows.

Kain's teleportation requires casting time. More than a second.

Kain's supposed "i cant die"ness comes from his destiny as the Scion of Balance. Destiny is discounted as usual. Dante can cut off his head and Kain can't expect to live.

Bullets. In Blood Omen 2, it only takes maybe 7 or 8 arrows to the chest to make Kain turn to dust. In Defiance, it's around 30. Dante's handguns unleash an incredible barrage of bullets in an insanely quick time. Bullets from bigass handguns are much more damaging than bolts and arrows. Dante can unleash 30 bullets unto Kain in seconds.

If all goes to worse, Dante can instantly freeze time with quicksilver and own the hell out of Kain. Even if Kain cant die, he can still get his ass handed to him. A knock-out counts as a win.

Burning thought
1. Kain moves at mist speed, its not displayed while you play apart from when you dodge because if it were you wouldnt be able to control someone moving so fast, also WTF, dante is that fast....bascially as fast as an Athlete human at his max in DMC 1and 2 wheras Kain and Dante both show increased speed in cinematics

also Kains telekenieses is based around game mechanic, in the game he controls and moves boss characters many times, its based around size, if their larger than about 8-9ft he cant throw them around, just knock them to the floor

also try playing defiance again, chapter 3 while in moebious stronghold he throws moebious weapon away.......he doesnt do it while you play however which is a shame, but many things in LOK games hapen in cinematics such as teleportation, TK on weapons and other things so that its not completly worthless to even try the game for a challenge, even thogh it still is a bit easy, also he can move while usin TK, play defiance until you get the last TK spell, its TK chains, you bind your enemy in the air, and you can do what you like with it really

False, Kain is immortal true, but he says so in game that Raziel is the only one who can kill him prophecy or no prophecy, the prophecy only makes Kain completly indestructable to all including Raziel, also at what part in Defiance does he ever die, when he loses all his life in-game he just becomes mist bats and forms again

true, it takes around a second or less to teleport, whats your point, by the time Dante even notices or can get to him, Kain will be gone.....dante doesnt move at light speed ime afraid


ok where shall i begin....all this arrow crap and boss crap is game mechanics, or lets bring up Dante must die mode, most monsters can pwn dante in a few hits in that, and even weak ones too, or maybe heaven and hell mode, one hit, wow dante is very tough, or dont game mechanics suddenly dont excist any more roll eyes (sarcastic) , also dont count out arrows completly, although better technology to fight humans, how many vampires in fiction do you see damaged by them, they move through them like nothing, you have to realise that an Arrow, especially burning ones in LOK games are one of the very few weapons effectve against a vampire, especially of Kain calibre, besides he wont have a chance to use his guns

also quicksilver has a limit, Kains invincibility doesnt........now please play the LOK games all the way through a few times before making up a load of stuff about him

Burning thought
also its no around 30 arrows, from just playing the game it took 74 burning arrows, plus the fact he loses life dew to not feeding and this is when he has the smallest life bar, with a full life bar he can possibly take up to 200 or more arrows and thats if hes just standing still, i doubt think your little guns are much use here

Generic Hero
Prove it. "He can do X, he just doesn't show it" requires proof. He can only mist short distances because it drains energy (Source: Blood Omen)



Suppose you're right.



Which is my original problem: Kain is destined to rule a corrupted world or return Balance and die at the hands of the Hylden Champion / Vampire Champion. Raziel is either, since he has free will. It's not his own power keeping him alive, but one's of destiny. LoK Vampires can die from Sunlight (Kain is immune), water (Kain gets owned by water), fire, decapitation and impaling. Even if Dante can't kill Kain, he can still severely pwn him and make him bat away.



Neither does Kain's teleportation.



The problem here is that you can't quantify the monster's power in omparison to Kain. They are just "weak" compared to DMC enemies, not LoK enemies.

We know however that arrows are much weaker than bullets.



No, bullets are stronger than arrows. Common knowledge, bullets are higher velocity and more damaging. In vampire fiction like Hellsing, guns are very effective and are Alucard's main weapons. Vampire Hunter D, John Carpenter's Vampires, Blade... Always see them using guns, not bows.

Doesn't matter. Bangle of Time + Slash his head off. Due to his fate he could be revived, but that's not stopping Dante from winning the fight. Imagine, Raziel ripping out the Heart of Darkness had him out cold for hours (and his wound didn't heal until Raziel healed him). Imagine what cutting off his head would do to him.



I've played and beaten every single LoK game in existence. You guys can actually make plenty of points about Kain (Implode, Stun spell, Incapacitate, Spirit Death, Spirit Wrack, in fact, I've debating for Kain in an exact same thread as this on another forum... but it seems only burning thought knows why Kain should win but his stuff is just from Defiance)

Sam Z
Kain wins.
He can teleport, turn into mist, has tk, can controle different elements, time and demensions, can steal souls and... is immortal.
End of story.

MadMel
well said...only raziel can kill him...

Burning thought
indeed, kain holds all the cards, also what era is this, is it present kain or old kain, if its present then he doesnt have blood omen abilities because in Blood omen 2 he forgets, however blood omen 2 abilities and onwards should still be allowed...immolate anyone, instant death to all non boss enemies



Also as i say, you wont get one bullet to hit Kain, hes too fast, also theres no proof that Mist form drains any energy from modern kain, distance isnt a good enough reason, anyone he can keep misting short distances and dodge all attacks, also his teleportation is fast enough to stop Dante, Dante cannot beat this guy, one soul reaver slash will kill Dante, his soul is not invulnerable


also in Soul reaver 1, Kain can fire a single, instant kill blast of death and can do it continually, i dont remember how raziel defeats it but he does die in 1 hit, Ofc raz is also indestructable and comes back and so its not too hard to figuire how to win, but Dante is dead in 1


also imagine when Kain evolves more, he can probably already beat Dante to death with his hands, he doesnt need his sword but when he evolves he gets wings eventually, imagine a flying kain and teleport combination with instant kill blasts...OUCH!!!!

Generic Hero
Blood Omen 2 Kain is actually, by far, the weakest incarnation of Kain... He sucked in Blood Omen 2.

Elder Kain is crazy powerful (especially at the end of Defiance).

Blood Omen Kain started out as a noob Vampire but quickly became immensely powerful... and Henning addressed that Kain relearned all of his old abilities during the time of his empire. These abilities were not included in Defiance because of balance issues and it wouldn't flow well in the game.

Kaled
i will point out that "immortal" in games mean cannot be killed by normal ways, if you use something magical then they can be.

kain heals fast ok, but if dante ripped his brain out.... i'm just askin i haven't made up my mind on this one yet

Burning thought
if kain loses arms, legs, organs he doesnt die, basically only Raziels Wraith blade can actually kill kain, you have to destroy his soul and body at one swipe, also Kain is fast enough to evade Dante ripping out his brain, he isnt slow.


Also i didnt even know that Generic, i was wondering how he relearnt how to mist form, his pretty godlike at the end of Defiance then, especially if hes still evolving after every hundred or so years, hell end up with wings soon eek!

Kaled
when i said ripped out his brain i was assuming than dante had already done significant damage, but it the only way to kill him is wipe out body and soul with one swipe, dante is a gonner, i'm certainly not aware of any powers he has that are going to do that, then you have to assume kain doesn't dodge it....

MadMel
damn straight..

Metalhead8486
ok people here is my opinion on this subject i am a fan of both games they both have compeling story lines both have great characters. i dont think it is an easy fight both are fast both have unique powers and have exceptional skill. dante with his sword,s guns,speed,strength and he can turn into a demon and that boosts his strength even more also he has the sparda sword wich is a weapon of great power and he is very versatile and is very innovative when it comes to fighting. kain vampire lord he like dante also has great strength, great speed and has one of the most badass swords of all time the soul reaver. kain alo has telequinesis can warp,turn mist and has great skill with swords. i think it would be a tough battle kain has an advantage with his telequinesis yes but what makes you think dante couldnt break kains hold. dante has good senses and is good at telling wether or not someone is gonna attack him same with kain. i think it would be a close battle but in the end kain would win cause hes over thousand years old has more experience. as far as weapons go i think both swords are equally matched the soul reaver is a great sword cause it sucks souls is industructable and can unleash other power. the sparda sword can tuen into different weapons and can open up a demon world and thats all that needs to be said there. but kain is older and more wiser than dante and dantes cockyniess might work against him so this fight is not a land slide victory it would be a long hard faught battle but kain wins in the end .these two though i declare as 2 of the most badass characters ever created thats my story and im sticken to it

Burning thought
although theres nothing Dante could really do much to TK since mind powers are not physical, their just mental and id say the Soul reaver is far more powerful than any of Dante weapon, the ability to suck souls completly destroys an enemy, even most enemies that would of usually come back to life or not die, those who have their souls reaved are not likely coming back, also it can fire instant killing blasts of energy, also another thing is that kain can shapeshift to wolves and bats and can through magic rip someones soul out anyway

but most of your facts are true

Metalhead8486
burning i beg to differ kains telekentic ablities are strong no doubt but i think if dante went demon form dante could break kains telekentic hold on him do to the overwelming power he gets when transformed. and i think the sparda sword could match the soul reaver i mean the sword sealed the demon world wich is basically hell. and sparda is the dark knight that stoped all demons from entering the human world so you have to think the sparda sword is pretty F*cking strong and we all know dante is no slouch with swords. yes the soul reaver takes souls but theres a chance that kain might not have time to try to steal his soul i mean there both extremly fast and both have great healing factors. dante got impailed with the alastor and went up through it and in the 3rd one in the opening he walks with demon scythes in him and still fights like he dosent feel pain im sure this would be a very intense fight and would be a fight to the bitter end. but like i posted before i do think kain would win in the end do to his experience since hes been around over a millenium. but i dont think you give dante the credit he deserves and so what he can shape shift whats kain gonna do bite him to death. and im sure dante has the speed to dodge kains magic attacks. nevan teleports into bats and we all know how she ended up with a sword straight up her cun* and kain hasent fought that many powerful bosses except the hylden lord,malek,raziel,

Sam Z
...And Elder God.
Soul Reaver can not only suck souls but it has all powers that Rasiel possesed and it includes controle over wind, water, light, earth and kain's own powers like controling lightnings, demensions and even time. I don't see Dante dodging all that especially since Kain can teleport.

MadMel
thats true....kain can also rip someones soul out with magic...that was a cool move..and again, raziel is the only one who can kill him..

Metalhead8486
i think vergil vs kain would be a lot more interesting kind of battle since vergil is a way better swordsman than dante is. im not saying dante isnt a badass guy with the sword but vergil is more calm and collective and dosent belive in guns so his skill with the swords are far superior to dantes.

Sam Z
Yeah, Vergil has advantage over dante when it comes to sword fighting.
But I don't see him winning this as well.

Emperor Ashtar
Dante wins, And before post this crap about kain controlling time blah,blah,blah. lemme ask a question, when has kain ever done this without using the reaver as a key against an item? dante doesn't have to kill him, he can K.O. him which is a win. and kain was kocked out by raziel 's crappy tk, dante can use quick silver, and KO him.

Sam Z
Um... when was Kain ever KOed?
There is really nothing Dante can do to him, yes Kain can controle demensions and time with soul reaver and he has tk that's not really crappy, the only way to KO kain is to "kill" him and once this is done he'll reform instantly.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Sam Z
Um... when was Kain ever KOed?
There is really nothing Dante can do to him, yes Kain can controle demensions and time with soul reaver and he has tk that's not really crappy, the only way to KO kain is to "kill" him and once this is done he'll reform instantly.

He was K.O'ed by raziel after his heart was ripped out, and when can he control dimensions with the soul reaver?

MadMel
..kain will move fast enough to use TK on dante before the half demon can touch him, so how it he going to KO him??

Sam Z
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
He was K.O'ed by raziel after his heart was ripped out, and when can he control dimensions with the soul reaver?

I hardly can call that KO because Kain was supposed to die by then because it was Rasiel(the only one who can kill him) who ripped the heart of darkness, so Kain can keep fighting untill he is mortally wounded and when he is, he simply reforms.
And as for demension, that's one of the powers his soul reaver gains in the game aside of time, flame and others.

Nikkolas
Let's also not forget his Soull Reaver Energy Attack. One blast from it and it vaporized Raziel in Soul Reaver. Further his tleporting+striking with the Reaver and Dante is dead.

Generic Hero
This is incorrect. Raziel's infused soul the wraith blade was originally ment to kill Kain. Ripping out his heart with his bare hands couldn't do the trick.

This fight isn't exactly fair for the normal Dante. Dante loses unless he has Sparda Form.

Sam Z
...and he still loses.
Besides Kain was councious when Rasiel ripped his heart but was knocked when Rasiel pushed him into oblivion.
Kain can still keep fighting untill he is mortally wounded and then just reform, so Dante stands no chance.

Generic Hero
Sparda form Dante is too powerful. Kain is an insect to him. Kain may not be able to die, but he can't possibly harm someone who defeated the armies of hell and killed a giant, dimension ripping demon. Plus Sparda can fly. Mr. Kain, who originally relied on stealth through the Sarafan hallways.

And Kain was conscious for a few seconds before losing it. So what? People are conscious for a few seconds after losing their heart, and alive for a few seconds after losing their head. Eventually the wound catches up to you.

Ripping out his heart KO'd him for several hours.

I'd even take Janos and Vorador over Kain.

Emperor Ashtar
What are you talking about, kain was not concious. after raziel ripped his heart out he shot a tk blast at kain, the next scene kain was on the floor. he was K.O'ed.

Nikkolas
Because you're an idiot. Vorador is too arrogant. He was taken by a group of Vampire Hunters. Kain would never let that happen to him...he did make it happen that Vorador and the others died, but it's beside the point. He walked into the camp of where Moebius was leading his vampire hunter horde and took them all out. AS A FLEDGLING VAMPIRE. as opposed to Vorador being alive for centuries.

The Elder God would kill Dante, Sparda form or no Sparda form and he's SCARED of Kain. I think Kain would destroy Dante.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Sam Z
I hardly can call that KO because Kain was supposed to die by then because it was Rasiel(the only one who can kill him) who ripped the heart of darkness, so Kain can keep fighting untill he is mortally wounded and when he is, he simply reforms.
And as for demension, that's one of the powers his soul reaver gains in the game aside of time, flame and others.

Sqam-Z, show me where it say's a person must kill the other in order to win a battle? this isn't mortal kombat, kain can be ko'ed thus losing.

Generic Hero
Am I now?



Prove it.



"A group". Could have been dozens. Could have been hundreds. Could have been ones with Moebius' staff. Your point is moot.



Because you love him so much?



Took them all out? He took out all the Vampire Hunters there. And this was AFTER THE VAMPIRE PURGES WERE OVER AND THEY THOUGHT ALL OF THEM WERE DEAD. Prove that there were more Vampire Hunters at the retreat (after the hunt was over) than at the ultimate final battle of the vampire race where they took down the Champion of all Vampires.

And it doesn't really matter. Vorador was much stronger than Kain in BO because one couldn't defeat Malak and one could. One could kill Pillar members with one spell and one couldn't. After the events of BO2 Kain lost many of his powers By Defiance he's only demonstrated usage of Mist, super Jump, bat form and telekenisis. That sure puts Vorador to shame roll eyes (sarcastic)

Janos as well would own Kain pretty hard. The Hylden Lord in Janos owned Kain's equal while Janos was fighting back at him.

Janos also held off the Sarafan guards while Raziel was dicking off. He fought them off for a while while being effected by Moebius's staff. Kain was instantly paralyzed when Moebius turned the staff at him.



And Kain couldn't kill the Elder God either.

Nikkolas

MadMel
a massive OWNAGE by the new guy..well done big grin..

Sam Z
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Sqam-Z, show me where it say's a person must kill the other in order to win a battle? this isn't mortal kombat, kain can be ko'ed thus losing.

That's the thing. I don't think Dante can KO him, and kain wont stop fighting unless Dante kills him and once he does Kain will simply reform.

Nikkolas
We also have to take note that it would probably take ONE solidstrike with the purified Soul Reaver to kill Dante and his soul is drained. Dante will need several hits before he even has a chance of slowing Kain down. Given the fact it's very difficult to use TK on upper-tier characters, let's say he merely applies it for a second to hold Dante still. He can teleport as we saw in Soul Reaver. Even a second application of the TK to keep him from moving would be enough for Kain to disappear and re-appear by him. Dante moves to defend himself as Kain goes Mist and moves to the side and behind Dante. Solidifies and runs him through.

A basic template of what would most probably be a long and drawn out fight but it's pretty solid, I think.

^^ thanks. ^^Kain is my favorite character ever and I first started kain vs. Dante topic on another forum a couple years ago. I've been arguing for his victory ever since.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Sam Z
That's the thing. I don't think Dante can KO him, and kain wont stop fighting unless Dante kills him and once he does Kain will simply reform.

It doesn't matter, once he's K.O'ed the match is over, rules are rules. this isn't mortal Kombat.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
We also have to take note that it would probably take ONE solidstrike with the purified Soul Reaver to kill Dante and his soul is drained.

No, it wouldn't, in order for the reaver to steal your soul, the person must be weakened or stunned. I've never seen the reaver steal souls from a body just like that.



Originally posted by Nikkolas

Dante will need several hits before he even has a chance of slowing Kain down. Given the fact it's very difficult to use TK on upper-tier characters, let's say he merely applies it for a second to hold Dante still.

With dante's speed, that is very unlikely, and quicksilver to the mix.

Originally posted by Nikkolas

He can teleport as we saw in Soul Reaver. Even a second application of the TK to keep him from moving would be enough for Kain to disappear and re-appear by him. Dante moves to defend himself as Kain goes Mist and moves to the side and behind Dante. Solidifies and runs him through.

Okay, hold own, the only attacks kain has in his mist forms are his stealth kills.

Burning thought
instant TK shackles and then Soul reaver blast, instant win, Dante is not fast enough to defeat Kain before he can do this....... if you can prove he is, then please tell me....

Also how are you going to KO Kain, lol ridiuclous concept, Kain can survive his heart being torn out, Dante is basically near death when he is simply smashed through the stomach with Vergils sword, i mean come on, Sword in stomach isnt anything compared to haveing your heart ripped out by somebodies bare hands roll eyes (sarcastic)

Kain can instantly rip out Dante soul with magic, Also Kain Gains all his powers from his older versions when through the years after BO 2, one of the makers of the game say so in an interview....cant remember his name though, long time

also Mist speed is faster than anything Dante can do, its as fast as air itself, much faster than Dante

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
instant TK shackles and then Soul reaver blast, instant win, Dante is not fast enough to defeat Kain before he can do this....... if you can prove he is, then please tell me....

Yeah, he is, Quick silver is enough. and kain has to aim his tk at him, good luck doing that on a moving object. especially one as fast as dante.


Originally posted by Burning thought

Also how are you going to KO Kain, lol ridiuclous concept, Kain can survive his heart being torn out, Dante is basically near death when he is simply smashed through the stomach with Vergils sword, i mean come on, Sword in stomach isnt anything compared to haveing your heart ripped out by somebodies bare hands roll eyes (sarcastic)

Right, dante fighting vergil in his first showing ok, and dante got up after a few seconds. kain was out for how long?


Originally posted by Burning thought

Kain can instantly rip out Dante soul with magic, Also Kain Gains all his powers from his older versions when through the years after BO 2, one of the makers of the game say so in an interview....cant remember his name though, long time

You're going to have to prove that, kain has never shown the ability to instantly rip someones soul out. he can take it out when their stunned, but, that's it.

Originally posted by Burning thought

also Mist speed is faster than anything Dante can do, its as fast as air itself, much faster than Dante

laughing What's the speed of air?! seriously mist form isn't that fast at all, it never was.

Burning thought
Kain doesnt aim TK, he simply uses his mind to instantly stop his opponent, aiming is not necessary

also it doesnt really say how long Kain took to get up, and as i said, getting slashed through the stomach is nothing compared, Dante probably wouldnt survive his heart being ripped out, wheras Kain can.......

also WTF, wheres proof to say mist form is slow, its fast enough to dodge basically anything, not to menstion his indestructable when kain moves using it, when in game does Dante move faster than Kains mist form, it just doesnt look that fast since its only a short distance you can move but its fast enough for me to dodge anything, the speed of air is the speed air takes to form around something when it moves through it, which is extremely fast, basically instant since its constant

also in BO 1 he rips out peoples souls with magick instantly as long as you have enough power ,also with a powered reaver, one strike makes the enemy explode, which would happen to Dante, ime afraid i dont see his regeneration putting his body back together and finding the pieces for him

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain doesnt aim TK, he simply uses his mind to instantly stop his opponent, aiming is not necessary

Show me kain doing this, kain has never instanly froze an opponent, he always has to focus on them.


Originally posted by Burning thought

also it doesnt really say how long Kain took to get up, and as i said, getting slashed through the stomach is nothing compared, Dante probably wouldnt survive his heart being ripped out, wheras Kain can.......


Slashed throguh the stomach, He was stabbed several times, first during the battle then during the cinematics several times and that was his weakest incarnation.


Originally posted by Burning thought

also WTF, wheres proof to say mist form is slow, its fast enough to dodge basically anything, not to menstion his indestructable when kain moves using it,

laughing Ok, first of all mist is not an offensive move, unless you count steath kills, and it is slow, defaince is a very slow game. his mist side step is no faster than links sidestep in zelda. and he's not indestructable, in blood omen you can get hit while in mist form.


Originally posted by Burning thought

when in game does Dante move faster than Kains mist form, it just doesnt look that fast since its only a short distance you can move but its fast enough for me to dodge anything, the speed of air is the speed air takes to form around something when it moves through it, which is extremely fast, basically instant since its constant

And what is the speed of air, can you give me a number, beacuse air is all around us, when does it have to take time to form, WTF are you talking about speed of air?

Dante outclasses kain in speed many times, million stab, stinger, dashing through the air with trickster and running 20 feet up walls, those are all speed feats.


Originally posted by Burning thought

also in BO 1 he rips out peoples souls with magick instantly as long as you have enough power ,also with a powered reaver, one strike makes the enemy explode, which would happen to Dante, ime afraid i dont see his regeneration putting his body back together and finding the pieces for him

You can't compare the game mechanics of BO and use it in this fight, especially considering all of kains instant kill moves can only perfrom there function against a low tier character and not a boss, how many times did it take him to kill the seraphim lord with immolate?

Burning thought
you still have no proof that Dante has more strength or resilence or speed than Kain, also the Mist form in BO is diffrent from the one in BO 2 which is diffrent from the one in Defiance

Also its as slow as you make it dude, can can do sword slashes as fast or faster than Dante, the usual boring combo's in DMC are simliar in LOK games, same speed, the only few diffrent speed ones i can remember are Cadaverous alliteration and Rage moves in the LOK and Million stab and that long range strike you can do, dont remember the name but its fast and launches Dante forwards, always a good move to do, anyway both are fast, Cadaverous is faster than the second move i mentioned and is perhaps equal in speed to Million stab

also how can you say Sparda sword is anything compared to the Soul reaver, it has never made an enemy explode or send instant kill shots and all the bosses in the LOK series i would rate high above the DMC series except perhaps Mundus but thats about it, all the rest are the usual little things or medium sized things and Dante still has some trouble with them

Also Kain does it all the time, TK shackles doesnt need much focus, in the game you just instantly tap the buttons and it takes no time at all, depends how long the player takes, and he can move his opponents around as much as he likes, its got unlmited power for moveing your enemies

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
you still have no proof that Dante has more strength or resilence or speed than Kain, also the Mist form in BO is diffrent from the one in BO 2 which is diffrent from the one in Defiance

Taking punches from Beo Wolf without being ko'ed, Being stabbed several times and getting up in seconds, dashing through the air in glaring speeds, regenarative pwoers at high speeds, combine that with all his devil arms.

Mist form isn't that different from defaince and Blood omen 2, the only difference I can think of is that you have a side step and can go thorugh cages in defaince, while in BO 2 it's used for stealth kills. not much of a big difference.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also its as slow as you make it dude, can can do sword slashes as fast or faster than Dante, the usual boring combo's in DMC are simliar in LOK games, same speed, the only few diffrent speed ones i can remember are Cadaverous alliteration and Rage moves in the LOK and Million stab and that long range strike you can do, dont remember the name but its fast and launches Dante forwards, always a good move to do, anyway both are fast, Cadaverous is faster than the second move i mentioned and is perhaps equal in speed to Million stab

No, just no. Defaince is ridiculesly slow, the hang time when you juggle an opponent is extremely long, it's like your fighting on the moon, and boring combo's?! BO2 sucked, defaince was the only game he fought using combo's and they were OK.


Originally posted by Burning thought

also how can you say Sparda sword is anything compared to the Soul reaver, it has never made an enemy explode or send instant kill shots and all the bosses in the LOK series i would rate high above the DMC series except perhaps Mundus but thats about it, all the rest are the usual little things or medium sized things and Dante still has some trouble with them


laughing The only reason why the soul reaver is so powerful is because it has a variety of functions, like using artifacts to time travel or absorbing elemental properties, which doesn't even use that well. that sword of sparda doesn't really have much showings. and what trouble are you talking about, dante beat vergils arse despite not having the sword of sparda, he doesn't need it.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also Kain does it all the time, TK shackles doesnt need much focus, in the game you just instantly tap the buttons and it takes no time at all, depends how long the player takes, and he can move his opponents around as much as he likes, its got unlmited power for moveing your enemies

No, you don't instanlty press the buttons, you have to aim your TK at your opponen. Blood Omen 2 and defiance prove that.

Nikkolas

Burning thought
.....you dont aim your TK, you probably just dont understand the controls, you just face your opponent and press TK and forwards i think it is, or forward attack and their hanging in the air, Dante cant do anything while doing that

Also Dante healing factor is not awsome or great, its over rated thats what it is, he still has a load of his health punched down when his hit so his resilence isnt too great and his healing is pitiful compared to some, the Elder God can reform limbs instantly and entire tenticles and Dante's Dash is simply as fast as a sprinting human, which is not impressive

also i hate to break it to ya but all his guns are pretty crap, in their base forms when you first get them their all not too great, his swords are far better and the Soul reaver itself is more powerful than Dante's entire arsenal combines times ten i think most should agree so no point in argueing with Dante's weapons

you probably havent even got Kain up to the TK shackles ability roll eyes (sarcastic) , i admit myself i havnt completed DMC 3 100% yet but from what ive seen and what i know, he has not got enough tricks to defeat Kain or KO him, i doubt his fast enough or strong enough to rip out any part of Kain or Knock him out before Kain can Dodge, Teleport or simply blast him with a Soul reaver

Burning thought
Nikkolas is owning you and hes new lol, anyway yes he did have a weak TK move of pulling magic icons and such with TK in BO 2 but not that effective compared to Defiance, also Mist form is fast so you may as well give in Ashtar, Dante can win many fights i admit, but Kain is going to beat him dead

Emperor Ashtar

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
.....you dont aim your TK, you probably just dont understand the controls, you just face your opponent and press TK and forwards i think it is, or forward attack and their hanging in the air, Dante cant do anything while doing that

laughing Right, you don't aim it despite the fact when you activate the tk, there is a targeting icon?

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also Dante healing factor is not awsome or great, its over rated thats what it is, he still has a load of his health punched down when his hit so his resilence isnt too great and his healing is pitiful compared to some, the Elder God can reform limbs instantly and entire tenticles and Dante's Dash is simply as fast as a sprinting human, which is not impressive

Dante's dash is not a sprinting human, when can humans sprint in the air or run up walls?


Originally posted by Burning thought

also i hate to break it to ya but all his guns are pretty crap, in their base forms when you first get them their all not too great, his swords are far better and the Soul reaver itself is more powerful than Dante's entire arsenal combines times ten i think most should agree so no point in argueing with Dante's weapons

I'm not comparing Devil May Cry to legacy of kain, your taking this way out of context.


Originally posted by Burning thought

you probably havent even got Kain up to the TK shackles ability roll eyes (sarcastic) , i admit myself i havnt completed DMC 3 100% yet but from what ive seen and what i know, he has not got enough tricks to defeat Kain or KO him, i doubt his fast enough or strong enough to rip out any part of Kain or Knock him out before Kain can Dodge, Teleport or simply blast him with a Soul reaver

I beat defaince and I owned Blood omen 2, so what are you talking about?

Burning thought
you cant of beaten Defiance that well if you dont know the moves proply, you DO NOT target TK shackle, the only TK you actually have to target is when you hitting buttons, otherwise you just press Auto fact which is ";" for me and then "L" which is TK and i can throw the enemies around and freeze them in shackles, the targeter is "o"

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
you cant of beaten Defiance that well if you dont know the moves proply, you DO NOT target TK shackle, the only TK you actually have to target is when you hitting buttons, otherwise you just press Auto fact which is ";" for me and then "L" which is TK and i can throw the enemies around and freeze them in shackles, the targeter is "o"

Again, when using tk a cusor appears on the screen, this has always been so, since blood omen 2.

Burning thought
i still stay with my argument, what do you press..........all i do is autoface and press "L" on the keyboard and my enemy is floating in the air in Defiance, no curser, nothing like Blood omen 2?...


regardless in real life which this battle is in, there is no curser and Kain will simply think a thought and Dante is in the air, or if Kain really wants to be cruel he can be impaled on his own sword just before dieing by kains, or the lairy Dante will get his mouth ripped out, his so annoying when he mocks the ice guardian and others, he wont mock kain without his mouth big grin

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
i still stay with my argument, what do you press..........all i do is autoface and press "L" on the keyboard and my enemy is floating in the air in Defiance, no curser, nothing like Blood omen 2?...

I have palyed defiance on the ps2, and when you activate the tk, a cursor appears.

Originally posted by Burning thought

regardless in real life which this battle is in, there is no curser and Kain will simply think a thought and Dante is in the air, or if Kain really wants to be cruel he can be impaled on his own sword just before dieing by kains, or the lairy Dante will get his mouth ripped out, his so annoying when he mocks the ice guardian and others, he wont mock kain without his mouth big grin

No, whenever kain uses his tk, he uses hand gestures. Kain has never done a TK move without doing that. and your ignoring my point, with quick silver dante will slowdown time take the reaver away,and ko kain.
How is kain going to get past that?

Generic Hero
It's left ambiguous. Completely moot.



No, of course we didn't. You made that up.



Good for him. Doesn't mean it'll work well in a sword fight.



Wrong.

Kain wasn't conquering for any "thousand years". In one hundred years humanity was completely domesticated. Kain sat on his ass for centuries.

Compared to Vorador being far older and more experience, surviving in a realm where Vampire's are hunted by Sarafan warriors.



His intentions behind that actions weren't yet clarified. The biggest theory is that he did the deed to speed up the process of him being the Scion of Balance, making Raziel take a split role, blah blah. It's unclarified, it could have well been jealousy.



Oh please. With Moebius' staff involved Kain would be crippled like a little baby, again. You haven't provided any documentations of Kain's alleged immunity to Vampire Hunters with a staff that leaves him crippled.



Vorador was the last. All were dead before he was even captured. He says so in Defiance. The purges were over when Kain arrived. That's all there is to it. You're working off your interpretations of ambiguous quotes, imagery and what you think happened. I'm going by what Vorador and Moebius said. After Vorador's destruction, the purge was over.



Looks like you just contradicted yourself in that same sentence. Vorador killed him. Kain couldn't.



No, because Vorador killed them too fast. Regardless, these Guardians had the power of the Pillars. Prove that the ones Kain fought were more powerful-oh wait, you can't.

And Moebius wasn't there. What, did you expect the Guardian of State or Conflict to send a time traveling entity on you?



It's canon.



He can't in Defiance because after the events of Soul Reaver 2, Blood Omen 2 happened and Kain lost many of his powers. It's possible he got his gift some between BO and BO2 and simply lost it for good.



Wrong. He did in Blood Omen 2. He only regained them after drinking other Vamp's blood, gaining THIER powers.



Prove they were weak. You can't- oh wait, your beloved proof: "They looked weak facing Vorador!" Good! Too bad that's begging the question, logical fallacy.



Who the hell cares? Look at this godamn forum. We're comparing two different species everywhere. The fact is that Janos beat Raziel who stalemated Kain. Janos is more powerful. Accept it.

They had the exact same heart, for Christ's sake!



There won't be. The series is dead. Don't hold your breath.

Prince Marvin
i know it doesnt say but what if vergil helped

Nikkolas

MadMel
hahah owned again....your a bloody champ, nik big grin...oh and in an interview with the dark chronicle, CD said they will finish the series rather than remake the old games..i cannot show that because, unfortunatly, the dark chronicle updated their site by a margin and i cant find the interview...

Burning thought
kain is recorded in time and history to be the greatest of all vampires and save them from extinction, Yanos is just one of the ancient Fathers of vampires but that does not make him far more powerful, janos does not Evolve like Kain does, kain evolves every century or so and gains new gifts so hell almost always be getting stronger

Dante is just some young teenager with a few sword skills who thinks his badass, he isnt going to have much chance against a being of Ages who had seen many battles and gotten out alive or dead in some cases but still got out and lives and breathes again, he even defeats Eldar God.

Kains soul reaver could not be wielded by Dante, Only Kain and Raziel can wield it well or their Allies, Dante's soul will be drained away from him as he touches it and he will drop dead, i doubt Raziel will let Dante wield him within the blade

and yes i must Say Nik your very good at this indeed big grin

Generic Hero
There's no "fact" in this. You interpreted this quote as being a direct referrence to arrogance. I never argued general deterrence, but you have absolutely zero proof for this assertion.



What the f*ck does this have to do with arrogance? That was your original point, wasn't it? Oh, too bad you couldn't prove that.



Considering they hunted him and killed many of his loved ones during the Sarafan purdge, yes it was quite harsh.



Wow, you're stupid.

"Redemption" in the Soul Reaver manual.

The destruction of the major human kingdoms wsa inevitable. Within a hundred years, humanity had been thoroughly domesticated.

Raziel then went on to say that "We grew bored". Kain sure did alot of conquering.



Oh, then it's even easier. Vorador knew in Defiance that they were coming for him, Vorador knew he had to fight. Being clever and intelligent would help you run, but Vorador clearly didn't want to do that.



In a way, Vorador just gave up. It's clear he didn't want to prolong his life by running away.



But he did once, but this is beside the point. Kain's ability to avoid fights has nothing to do with his strength compared to Vorador.



By the time of Vorador execution, you believe every single Vampire hunter was there watching? Some were. That's for sure, but you can't quantify the amount Kain faced to the amount Vorador faced. We don't know the figures so your original proof begs for more proof.



Another contradiction. You said "No one could kill Malek" then you go on to admit that Vorador did kill him.

And where the bloody hell does it say "No one could kill Malek"? Moebius bounded his soul to the armor with magic. Vorador might have knew a spell to counter that, or something.



When was this said?



They attacked Vorador. Vorador was too powerful.



Malek was still the protection of the Pillar guardians 500 years later. So it looks like this point crumbles.



Because:

Fact A: Circle Members get their power from the Pillars
Fact B: Vorador made 6 of them them look weak
Fact C: Kain killed many Circle Members, to him they looked strong
Possibility D: The later Circle Members are stronger than the former.
Possible Proof D: The later ones looked stronger in comparison to Kain.

That's not a valid case for Kain's superiority, because there are no constants. All we really know is that Vorador could kill 6 Circle Members who drew their power from the pillars and Kain couldn't.

BTW, Moebius and Mortanius were from a long time ago too. They were weak :sarcasm:



Again, begging the question. You're making a case because someone killed sa guardian who looked stronger ignoring the context of who was the someone. Vorador was stronger than Kain, and he made it look easy.



Prove it.



It also must be noted that Vorador caught them by surprise whereas they were ready for Kain.



Destiny. You do know that Janos was originally meant to be killed? Doesn't mean he's weaker than kain.



Haha, don't get mad, but the series is done for. Eidos is experiencing financial trouble and one of the main voice actors (Tony Jay, voice of the Elder God) passed away. Sowwy sad

Nikkolas
This is completely off-topic and your opinion is so drenched in bias it makes Paris Hilton after one of her videos look freshly scrubbed and clean. The Pillar Guardians Kain foguth demonstrated powers that could ravage and destroy huge portions of Nosgoth. That translates to they looked strong to him and pretty much everyone else watching as they made places like Dark Eden. The Guardians Vorador killed only screamed for help, demonstrated no massive displays of power and thus you are bargaining on powers you presume. Go watch the opening again. I said point-blank that the only one to clearly put up a fight had one pathetic energy bolt and he was out of gas. He holds up his hands as if to use more magic and nothing happens ie. he was out of power. One guy who can throw an energy bolt and a few others who do nothing but scream for help does not demonstrate amazing and awesome power. Work with facts or shut up and get lost.

I'm off-topic. The fact is, Kain kills Dante. Slow Time equals Dante is moving with 1/4 normal speed and Kain at maximum. Stabs him in teh chest, absorbs his soul into the Soul Reaver and goes home to bang some of Vorador's women.

Burning thought
yes this did go WAAAAY off topic but anyway Kain can beat this "kid" any time

Sam Z
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
It doesn't matter, once he's K.O'ed the match is over, rules are rules. this isn't mortal Kombat.


The heart of Darkness was used to create Kain, and was concidered a source of his life and it was ripped by the creature who's destiny was to kill Kain, that's why everyone thought Kain is dead. But Kain survived even without heart of Darkness but it took him a while to recover so no wonder he was KOed for sometime. Besides that time he was never knocked uncouncious and now he doesn't have heart so Dante wouldn't be able to knock him out and if he mortally injures Kain then Kain will simply reforms, so there is no way for Dante to KO Kain. Besides it all doesn't matter since Kain is far more powerfull than Dante, moves as fast, can teleport, has tk and can controle time, demensions etc so Dante literally stands no chance even if he could KO Kain, but he can't.

Burning thought
i was just playing DMC 3 and he is SO SLOW, he lets open his sword attacks so many times that he can easily be attacked, he is usless at defence, i was using Adni and Rudra (whatever they are called) and their supposed to be the fastest swords so far but hell, even swords master is still pretty dam slow, Dante can hardly dodge getting hit by the slow enemies in the game, let alone Kain who moves 10x faster than any of them roll eyes (sarcastic)

Rebellion is a nice enough sword, Sparda would be usless weapon, but Rebellion would be dante's friend, but push cinematics aside and in gameplay Dante is terribly slow, Kain in game is a lot faster, even if his combo's aint he isnt always leaving his guard open to be attacked and is always able to jump or dodge, unlike Dante who is often unable to Dodge an enemy as his slow sword attacks come down, TBH he is fast sometimes and very fast at others but other than that he is a snail compared to Kain

Kain even fights more powerful enemies, the Hylden are far more powerful than the shades and wraiths and flying things, the Demons are far stronger than DMC demons and the Wraiths in DMC are nothing yet Dante is still troubled at times, wheras he could never face the LOK wraiths, he couldnt even hit them laughing

I do like Jester though, hes an awsome character in DMC 3 crazy and cool at the same time

Prince Marvin
dante wins with his quick silver ability.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Sam Z
The heart of Darkness was used to create Kain, and was concidered a source of his life and it was ripped by the creature who's destiny was to kill Kain, that's why everyone thought Kain is dead. But Kain survived even without heart of Darkness but it took him a while to recover so no wonder he was KOed for sometime. Besides that time he was never knocked uncouncious and now he doesn't have heart so Dante wouldn't be able to knock him out and if he mortally injures Kain then Kain will simply reforms, so there is no way for Dante to KO Kain. Besides it all doesn't matter since Kain is far more powerfull than Dante, moves as fast, can teleport, has tk and can controle time, demensions etc so Dante literally stands no chance even if he could KO Kain, but he can't.

He was K.O.ed twice in the series. so, your point is moot. And control over time, you mean when uses the ruins to time travel with the reaver, gimme a break.

You haven't given me any reason why dante can't ko kain, instead you listed the reavers ability, good job.

Emperor Ashtar
Anyway I already made my point, there is nothing else for me to say.

Burning thought
Kain wins.....End off, now let this thread die, everyones said their piece

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain wins.....End off, now let this thread die, everyones said their piece

Very well, let this thread die.

Burning thought
blows holes in thread and burns it

Sam Z
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
He was K.O.ed twice in the series. so, your point is moot. And control over time, you mean when uses the ruins to time travel with the reaver, gimme a break.

You haven't given me any reason why dante can't ko kain, instead you listed the reavers ability, good job.

Because time controle is an ability of reaver as well, so don't call my point moot only because of your lack of knowledge. And where's the second time Kain KOed. And again, that "ripping heart" thing is not going to help Dante as I explained above, and take also that Kain is way more powerfull than Dante. TK chains + drains soul = Dante is done. Try arguing that.

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Sam Z
Because time controle is an ability of reaver as well, so don't call my point moot only because of your lack of knowledge. And where's the second time Kain KOed. And again, that "ripping heart" thing is not going to help Dante as I explained above, and take also that Kain is way more powerfull than Dante. TK chains + drains soul = Dante is done. Try arguing that.

Ugh, your point about kain being ko'ed was moot, he was ko'ed by the seraphin lord also. And when has the reaver manipulated time without the aid of a ruin? Kain can't control dimensions, Dimesion is a property of the reaver that allows him to teleport, that's it.

I like how you completely ignore the fact quick silver is in play here, and doppleganger, and kain is screwed. You still haven't explain how kain is going to escape quick silver,sam-z.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Ugh, your point about kain being koed was moot, he was koed by the seraphin lord also. Alos when has the reaver manipulated time without the aid of a ruin, and the kain can't ontrol dimensions. Dimesion is a property of the reaver that allows him to teleport, that's it.

I like how you completely ignore the fact quick silver is in play here, and doppleganger, and kkain is screwed. You still haven't explain how kain is going to escape quick silver sam-z.

Seraphin lord, please be more exact, when did it happen and what happened there. I like it how you make stuff up, he never needed ruins to maniulate time with reaver, reaver simply got this new ability through the game. And Kain can controle demension, you talk of reaver as of something that has nothing to do with Kain. I don't ignore anything, you'd better tell me how is Dante going to use quick silver when he is paralized?

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Sam Z
Seraphin lord, please be more exact, when did it happen and what happened there. I like it how you make stuff up

Have you played Blood Omen 2?

Originally posted by Sam Z

he never needed ruins to maniulate time with reaver, reaver simply got this new ability through the game. And Kain can controle demension, you talk of reaver as of something that has nothing to do with Kain. I don't ignore anything, you'd better tell me how is Dante going to use quick silver when he is paralized?

Again, your ignoring a question, when has he controlled dimensions and time?

And being paralyzed wouldn't stop him from using quick silver, he doesn't have to perform any gestures to activate it, he just thinks about it, and it happens.

Sam Z
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Have you played Blood Omen 2? Have you read rules of the forum? We are talking about current Kain, why don't you take Kain from Blood Omen 1 when he was just a vampire. That'd be even more convinient after all...
Fact remains, Dante can't ko Kain.


Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Again, your ignoring a question, when has he controlled dimensions and time? My turn to ask question. Have you played Defiance?
Time reaver and demension reaver are his basic abilities.
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

And being paralyzed wouldn't stop him from using quick silver, he doesn't have to perform any gestures to activate it, he just thinks about it, and it happens.
And being paralized and getting his soul stolen would, and you also would have to prove that it is activated by his thought only and can be performed while paralized coz it is not, can you use it for example when you are in the middle of someone's attack? No. So there.

Burning thought
actually it takes about 2 seconds or less to transform into Devil trigger mode, kain can simply think in an instant and Dante is either being tossed around or hanging in chains and Sam Z is right, you have to be standing still for about a second before you can acitvate, and at the same time, it takes a little while to come into effect like i said above

also Kain gets the Time power to manipulate time so that it goes slowly but also speeds him up, similiar to quick silver, quick silver doesnt stop time, it just speeds Dante up so that his enemies seem frozen so Kain still has only got to think, his thoughts would not be affected by Dante, only movement, i admit however that the Dimension reaver allows Kain to teleport at extreme speeds, perhaps instantly to his enemies and perform a reaver slash, this would kill Dante

Also we are still forgetting the fact that Dante has no way to rip out Kains heart since he hasnt got one any more, also theres no other way to knock Kain out, he has survived hits by far worse things that Dante, Kain can also shoot instant kill bolts that move at instant speeds, these are undodgable

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Sam Z
Have you read rules of the forum? We are talking about current Kain, why don't you take Kain from Blood Omen 1 when he was just a vampire. That'd be even more convinient after all...
Fact remains, Dante can't ko Kain.

What does immortality have to do with K.O.ing kain?
Originally posted by Sam Z

My turn to ask question. Have you played Defiance?
Time reaver and demension reaver are his basic abilities.

Again, when has kain controlled dimensions and time? Yes, I've played defaince, and kain has never controlled dimensions or time, your listing properties of the reaver. and kain has only time traveled with the help of a ruin and he can't control dimensions,but, you claimed he can, so give me an example.

Originally posted by Sam Z

And being paralized and getting his soul stolen would, and you also would have to prove that it is activated by his thought only and can be performed while paralized coz it is not, can you use it for example when you are in the middle of someone's attack? No. So there.

What does attack have to do with thought, DMC 3 dante activated qucik silver wothout any manerisms what so ever. Have you played DMC 3, if not why are you debating a game you haven't played?

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
actually it takes about 2 seconds or less to transform into Devil trigger mode, kain can simply think in an instant and Dante is either being tossed around or hanging in chains and Sam Z is right, you have to be standing still for about a second before you can acitvate, and at the same time, it takes a little while to come into effect like i said above
Devil trigger has nothing to do with quick silver. and it does not take 2 seconds.


Originally posted by Burning thought

also Kain gets the Time power to manipulate time so that it goes slowly but also speeds him up, similiar to quick silver, quick silver doesnt stop time, it just speeds Dante up so that his enemies seem frozen so Kain still has only got to think, his thoughts would not be affected by Dante, only movement, i admit however that the Dimension reaver allows Kain to teleport at extreme speeds, perhaps instantly to his enemies and perform a reaver slash, this would kill Dante

Your ignoring quick silver as usual, and kain when has kain manipulated time?


Originally posted by Burning thought

Also we are still forgetting the fact that Dante has no way to rip out Kains heart since he hasnt got one any more, also theres no other way to knock Kain out, he has survived hits by far worse things that Dante, Kain can also shoot instant kill bolts that move at instant speeds, these are undodgable

What instant kill does kain have that's unavoidable, and when has he survived worst?

Burning thought
what do you mean by, when has he survived worse?

anyway although kain doesnt do it, the reaver DOES, and in this fight kain has it, so it doesnt matter if Kain can do it or not, the reaver is Kains special sword, its made for him and is especially powrful in his hands

Soul reaver 1, first kain battle, Kain shoots undodgable, instant kill bolts of energy from his reaver, also Devil trigger DOES take about 1-2 seconds to take effect completly, ive played the game about 5 minutes ago, also even if some how, magically kain LETS dante do his little quick silver, whats he going to do, it lasts only a limited amount of time, he has about 3 minutes or less to do what he wants ot kain, but whats he gonner do, stab him with rebellion, laughing please......he cant hurt kain, only the wraith blade can actually do anything, kain will just walk around with Rebellion in him and laugh at Dante's puny attempts of fightning him a bit like the first level of DMC 3

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
what do you mean by, when has he survived worse?

anyway although kain doesnt do it, the reaver DOES, and in this fight kain has it, so it doesnt matter if Kain can do it or not, the reaver is Kains special sword, its made for him and is especially powrful in his hands

Soul reaver 1, first kain battle, Kain shoots undodgable, instant kill bolts of energy from his reaver, also Devil trigger DOES take about 1-2 seconds to take effect completly, ive played the game about 5 minutes ago, also even if some how, magically kain LETS dante do his little quick silver, whats he going to do, it lasts only a limited amount of time, he has about 3 minutes or less to do what he wants ot kain, but whats he gonner do, stab him with rebellion, laughing please......he cant hurt kain, only the wraith blade can actually do anything, kain will just walk around with Rebellion in him and laugh at Dante's puny attempts of fightning him a bit like the first level of DMC 3

No, devil trigger does not take 2 seconds. as soon as you press the buttons it activates and qucik silver last depending upon how much power you have. and here you go again, I want you to show me kain tking hits similar to the rebellion without being phased. because it seems that your camp is just claiming things without backing it up.

Tell me:

When kain has controled dimensions?
When kain has controled time?
When kain has withstood hits without being phased, like in your scenerio?
What unavoidable attack did he shoot, and who did he use it on?

And most importantly, why he can't be knocked out, you keep bringing immortality into this, and I constantly have to repeat myself. IMMORTALITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING K.O.ED

Burning thought
what are oyu talking about? Phased, whats that supposed to mean, and what do you mean you want to see kain Tking hits similiar to the rebellion, this doesnt make sense


Kain himself does not control Dimensions or time, the Reaver allows him to do the Dimension teleport move and the time reaver allows him to slow down time much like quick silver, thats the truth, and ofc from playing Defiance you know it is

obviously you do ot agree on 2 sec devil trigger os ill drop it even though i still belive it takes a while to get into effect, but either way, it does have limits, also the only times you see Kain being knocked out is when hes had his heart ripped out, but at his current age and power he has never been knocked out of conciousness except for that one time, which is completly diffrent from swords or punches, having your heart ripped out is more severe than anything dante has had to endure, and no, swords in the chest and such crap is nothing compared to it roll eyes (sarcastic)

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
what are oyu talking about? Phased, whats that supposed to mean, and what do you mean you want to see kain Tking hits similiar to the rebellion, this doesnt make sense

How does it not make sense, you claimed he can take hits from dante's rebellion, so show me an example of him doing this in his own series, what's so hard about that?

Originally posted by Burning thought

Kain himself does not control Dimensions or time, the Reaver allows him to do the Dimension teleport move and the time reaver allows him to slow down time much like quick silver, thats the truth, and ofc from playing Defiance you know it is

I do know that, it's just that certain people were claiming kain could control time and dimensions.


Originally posted by Burning thought

obviously you do ot agree on 2 sec devil trigger os ill drop it even though i still belive it takes a while to get into effect, but either way, it does have limits, also the only times you see Kain being knocked out is when hes had his heart ripped out, but at his current age and power he has never been knocked out of conciousness except for that one time, which is completly diffrent from swords or punches, having your heart ripped out is more severe than anything dante has had to endure, and no, swords in the chest and such crap is nothing compared to it roll eyes (sarcastic)

So, because he was knocked out by getting his heart ripped out only, he can't be K.O.ed no other way? confused

I'm asking you for kains durability feats, how much can he take before getting k.o.ed? You claimed it would take nothing short of "Ripping his heart out, to k.o him" I disagreed, show me kain being hit by uber powerful attacks and not getting K.O.Ed, becuase surving strikes from Seraphim knights isn't really impressive.

Burning thought
he survives strikes from the elder God, his tentacles are enormous and his strength unknown, but he can knock through stone and rock effortlessly as if he was moving his tentacles through air and he smashes all kinds of steel and metal, so think if kain can survive about 50 hits from that, i doubt Dante is gonner be able to take him down or knock him out, also the Hylden are extremely strong, it takes a lot to take them down and their strength is awsome, the hylden lords strength probably outmatches dante's considering he picks up and throws around people like toys however this doesnt prove much of his strength

Also Kain takes hits from swords all the time, he even takes hits from the Wraith blade, which is the weapon that can kill him and he still survives, the thing is, in his own series, in his older form he is too fast to be hit, hes never hit on the average

Also Rebellion is not much of a sword in power terms, does it have any powers, all ive seen it do is cut through statues and that but it cant drain souls or make enemies explode like the soul reaver, theres nothing to say it will do much to kain, also Kain will turn to mist whenever Dante tries to attack and so he wont be able to cut Kain, either way, sword slashes would not K.O kain

Also sarafan are not exactley weak, neither are the Demons, the Demons in LOK can be seen as highly strong and perhaps nearly as strong as dante physically, the Sarafan blades take a long time to kill Kain if you let him get hit

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
he survives strikes from the elder God, his tentacles are enormous and his strength unknown, but he can knock through stone and rock effortlessly as if he was moving his tentacles through air and he smashes all kinds of steel and metal, so think if kain can survive about 50 hits from that, i doubt Dante is gonner be able to take him down or knock him out, also the Hylden are extremely strong, it takes a lot to take them down and their strength is awsome, the hylden lords strength probably outmatches dante's considering he picks up and throws around people like toys however this doesnt prove much of his strength

Dante destroy demons that are several meters tall, and can cut through metal. And are these cutscenes or gameplay, because gameplay doesn't hold weight.



Originally posted by Burning thought

Also Kain takes hits from swords all the time, he even takes hits from the Wraith blade, which is the weapon that can kill him and he still survives, the thing is, in his own series, in his older form he is too fast to be hit, hes never hit on the average

Right, sword strikes from seraphim knights, which was my point. you can't compare those knights to dante in his Weakest Incarnation.
How fast is he, because kain hasn't shown me any uber speed like you've given him.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also Rebellion is not much of a sword in power terms, does it have any powers, all ive seen it do is cut through statues and that but it cant drain souls or make enemies explode like the soul reaver, theres nothing to say it will do much to kain, also Kain will turn to mist whenever Dante tries to attack and so he wont be able to cut Kain, either way, sword slashes would not K.O kain

Sigh, your using his mist form as an offensive application, when has kain gone through an attack with his mist form? and the rebellion is a regular blade, it's the swrod that counts, but the sword men.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also sarafan are not exactley weak, neither are the Demons, the Demons in LOK can be seen as highly strong and perhaps nearly as strong as dante physically, the Sarafan blades take a long time to kill Kain if you let him get hit

No, seraphin knights aren't that strong, your exaggerating as usual.

Prince Marvin
what if vergil helped . i know its not the topic but im saying what if. any way i say dante i played that kain game imp it sucked

Burning thought
????The elder god smashes through rock and such in cinematics but there are hardly any cinematics in LOK series really, its mostly all gameplay, however the elder gods strength doesnt lessen in gameplay, anyway if kain can survive the Eldar god, he can survive Dante's hits without being K.Oed

kains mist form.....what are you talking about FFS if hes mist you cant cut him CAN YOU..... Dante has never cut enemies formed ENTIRELY of mist, you CANNOT cut mist, its like slashing air

Kains speed is enough so he can perform several slashes while in the air, much like Dante, since theres no cinematics of him running up walls and such i cannot count such skills but the fact that he can move his sword so fast so that its a blur is faster than Dante, his sword rarely become a blur except in a few fights with Vergil and others but not usually, not like Kains

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
????The elder god smashes through rock and such in cinematics but there are hardly any cinematics in LOK series really, its mostly all gameplay, however the elder gods strength doesnt lessen in gameplay, anyway if kain can survive the Eldar god, he can survive Dante's hits without being K.Oed

kains mist form.....what are you talking about FFS if hes mist you cant cut him CAN YOU..... Dante has never cut enemies formed ENTIRELY of mist, you CANNOT cut mist, its like slashing air

Kains speed is enough so he can perform several slashes while in the air, much like Dante, since theres no cinematics of him running up walls and such i cannot count such skills but the fact that he can move his sword so fast so that its a blur is faster than Dante, his sword rarely become a blur except in a few fights with Vergil and others but not usually, not like Kains

I'm done, I concede this debate, you obviously don't like to listen, kain has been hurt in bis mist form in BO 2, he's never gone through an attack with his mist form and dante has demonstrated his speed many times in cutscene's. your comparing everyone's power to dante's without any proof. first a sarafan knight is as strong as dante, than the elder gods tentacles, not worth my time, later.

Burning thought
...you dont think the eldar god is as strong physically as Dante....you have some serious fanboy problems....

Also stop comparing modern Kain to older ones, all the older ones are obselete and not in this match wheras the newer Kain is, Mist form in BO 2 is a stealth move where you are physical, in Defiance you became actual mist when you dodge

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
...you dont think the eldar god is as strong physically as Dante....you have some serious fanboy problems....

Right, but your not a fanboy despite claimeing a sarafan knight is as strong as dante, ok.

Originally posted by Burning thought

Also stop comparing modern Kain to older ones, all the older ones are obselete and not in this match wheras the newer Kain is, Mist form in BO 2 is a stealth move where you are physical, in Defiance you became actual mist when you dodge

When you sidestep, how does that equal being invulnerable?

Again, making claims with no proof, waste of my time.

Burning thought
ive been attacked many times while sidestepping, the enemies cant hit you when you side step, perhaps because their not fast enough most of the time but thats not the point

Also i admit a sarafan knight is nothing to Dante's strength but their not usless or nothing, just because their humans, ime just defending them, i dont know why big grin

but it seems to me your just acting foolish, just because Defiance or the LOK series is not crap full of cinematics every level or so showing needless acts

Its just cinematics to make Dante look cool and funny, all his foolish comments and running down buildings, shooting a little snooker ball with his Guns, so much for powerful weaponry, his ebony and ivory cant even pierce a WOODEN snooker ball roll eyes (sarcastic) the fact of the matter is you dont seem to like in game stuns, Kain can float, teleport and such, he moves at a speed enough to make blurs with his sword and although he isnt shown being shot or impaled all the time theres nothing to say he cant, hes an all powerful vampire king, he has taken the essence and gained the abilites of vampires that could run on walls for an almsot constant amount of time, those that can survive being implaled in the back constant amounts, he has defeaten the pillar guardians who have the power to destroy and transform entire lands and areas equeling a city in size and has an indestructable sword that can slow time, dimension movement, cause lightning strikes and madness in his enemies on top of having the power to burst into mist, reform himself from even complete dissolving, his strength of a vampire is enough but multiplied by hundreds of years of constant evolution and by gaining the strength and powers of many more vampires makes his strength legendary, his endurance basically infinate, TK abilites that allow him to move bodies, weapons and freeze them in place, not to mention all his thousands of years experiance and spells which i would not go into here and now but through all. And STILL you think some Devil boy who has not had much experiance in battle, has no spells whatsoever, cannot reform and is knocked down by a simple sword such as the Yamato which is nothing compared to the reaver and you still think he can have a slightest chance JUST because he has speed and some weapons that he has used to defeat his little enemies and some fancy cinematics

i rest my case, it seems you either are a fanboy or you simply ignore gameplay and go ONLY by cinematics just because in actualy gameplay Dante is landed on his ass by many a demon or monster even when doing his all so great attacks, i think if he was as godlike as he is shown in the cinematics, he would not be as easily thrown on his ass by a few wraiths, its not that hard to add controls enough to stop them yet the game doesn not allow it

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
ive been attacked many times while sidestepping, the enemies cant hit you when you side step, perhaps because their not fast enough most of the time but thats not the point

Also i admit a sarafan knight is nothing to Dante's strength but their not usless or nothing, just because their humans, ime just defending them, i dont know why big grin

but it seems to me your just acting foolish, just because Defiance or the LOK series is not crap full of cinematics every level or so showing needless acts

Its just cinematics to make Dante look cool and funny, all his foolish comments and running down buildings, shooting a little snooker ball with his Guns, so much for powerful weaponry, his ebony and ivory cant even pierce a WOODEN snooker ball roll eyes (sarcastic) the fact of the matter is you dont seem to like in game stuns, Kain can float, teleport and such, he moves at a speed enough to make blurs with his sword and although he isnt shown being shot or impaled all the time theres nothing to say he cant, hes an all powerful vampire king, he has taken the essence and gained the abilites of vampires that could run on walls for an almsot constant amount of time, those that can survive being implaled in the back constant amounts, he has defeaten the pillar guardians who have the power to destroy and transform entire lands and areas equeling a city in size and has an indestructable sword that can slow time, dimension movement, cause lightning strikes and madness in his enemies on top of having the power to burst into mist, reform himself from even complete dissolving, his strength of a vampire is enough but multiplied by hundreds of years of constant evolution and by gaining the strength and powers of many more vampires makes his strength legendary, his endurance basically infinate, TK abilites that allow him to move bodies, weapons and freeze them in place, not to mention all his thousands of years experiance and spells which i would not go into here and now but through all. And STILL you think some Devil boy who has not had much experiance in battle, has no spells whatsoever, cannot reform and is knocked down by a simple sword such as the Yamato which is nothing compared to the reaver and you still think he can have a slightest chance JUST because he has speed and some weapons that he has used to defeat his little enemies and some fancy cinematics

i rest my case, it seems you either are a fanboy or you simply ignore gameplay and go ONLY by cinematics just because in actualy gameplay Dante is landed on his ass by many a demon or monster even when doing his all so great attacks, i think if he was as godlike as he is shown in the cinematics, he would not be as easily thrown on his ass by a few wraiths, its not that hard to add controls enough to stop them yet the game doesn not allow it


A fanboy calling me a fanboy, funny. laughing

Burning thought
ime slightly a fan, i like to state facts and reality, and reality is that Dante as strong as he is, for many reasons cannot beat Kain

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
ime slightly a fan, i like to state facts and reality, and reality is that Dante as strong as he is, for many reasons cannot beat Kain
That tribute you just posted, doesn't seem to indicate, your slightly a fan.

Burning thought
its every fact i know on Kain, just because i know a lot about him doesnt mean ime a hard on fan, a fan boy in my eyes is someone who roots for his character in impossible odds and has not only games but every piece of merchandise he can get his hands on, all i have is the games and i like them enough to make Kain one of my gave characters and perhaps most powerful, Dante doesnt hold a light to him due to the Facts i posted in my large amount i typed, but their all facts that you may not know but you cannot deny unless you can definatley deem them false, take into consideration that Kain, according to one of the producers and designers of the game has relaernt all his BO 1, 2 skills through his centuries of rule and evolution after BO 2

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
its every fact i know on Kain, just because i know a lot about him doesnt mean ime a hard on fan, a fan boy in my eyes is someone who roots for his character in impossible odds and has not only games but every piece of merchandise he can get his hands on, all i have is the games and i like them enough to make Kain one of my gave characters and perhaps most powerful, Dante doesnt hold a light to him due to the Facts i posted in my large amount i typed, but their all facts that you may not know but you cannot deny unless you can definatley deem them false, take into consideration that Kain, according to one of the producers and designers of the game has relaernt all his BO 1, 2 skills through his centuries of rule and evolution after BO 2

No, a fanboy is indicated when bias is used to defend a point, simply because they disagree withit. when you compared a sarfan knight to dante, that was bias.

Burning thought
i was simply comparing that he is not useless and that a sarafan knights sword although not wielded with the speed and strength of Dante is not completly diffrent from Rebellion which although magical and powerful is not awsome like the Soul reaver

wheres you compared Dante's strength which is not proven to be able to punch bare handed through many feet of hard conrete and steel to the Eldar gods enormous tentacles which aren ot only heavey but with the strength of a god

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
i was simply comparing that he is not useless and that a sarafan knights sword although not wielded with the speed and strength of Dante is not completly diffrent from Rebellion which although magical and powerful is not awsome like the Soul reaver

wheres you compared Dante's strength which is not proven to be able to punch bare handed through many feet of hard conrete and steel to the Eldar gods enormous tentacles which aren ot only heavey but with the strength of a god

Play DMC 3 again, dante punched thick stone demon chess pieces,and metallic demons.

Burning thought
i wouldnt call them Demon, they just like knights that float around very slowly, easy, their not thick anyway if your talking about the ones on the level where you fight Dante brother, and so far few of the demons dante has fought are too impressive or thick in endurance or how you put it, you cannot compare Dante's hands to the elder gods enormous tentacles, hes being compared to the strength of a god plus the mass of the tentacles are very large

Prince Marvin
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Play DMC 3 again, dante punched thick stone demon chess pieces,and metallic demons. right i just bouhgt that game

Prince Marvin
Originally posted by Prince Marvin
right i just bouhgt that game

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
i wouldnt call them Demon, they just like knights that float around very slowly, easy, their not thick anyway if your talking about the ones on the level where you fight Dante brother, and so far few of the demons dante has fought are too impressive or thick in endurance or how you put it, you cannot compare Dante's hands to the elder gods enormous tentacles, hes being compared to the strength of a god plus the mass of the tentacles are very large

They are thick, try punchin a gaint stone sculpture and see how ell you do. elder gods tentacles are just that, huge tentacles. but, because his name is "Elder GOD" it's your exagerrate it's strentgh. I didn't say dante was stronger than the elder gods hits, but you act like his tentacles striking kain in game restriction is some high end feat.

Prince Marvin
ur right . dante can pwns

Burning thought
the fact however is true that the tentacles smash through thicker things than Dante could dream off, just because Kain can survive hits of them in game doesnt mean its not real or that its because of game restrictions, however either way, the strength of about 10 vampires which are each probably stronger than 100 men makes Kain stronger than Dante, just because he can break stone and that he is a demon doesnt make him stronger, at the same time he reforms after any wound and survives even his heart torn out, Dante i doubt would survive organs taken from him, especially his heart

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
the fact however is true that the tentacles smash through thicker things than Dante could dream off, just because Kain can survive hits of them in game doesnt mean its not real or that its because of game restrictions, however either way, the strength of about 10 vampires which are each probably stronger than 100 men makes Kain stronger than Dante, just because he can break stone and that he is a demon doesnt make him stronger, at the same time he reforms after any wound and survives even his heart torn out, Dante i doubt would survive organs taken from him, especially his heart

That translate to kain is stronger because he's kain, why are you comparing humans to vampires in an attempt to compare dante and kain, dante isn't a human. and it's to be expected that kain can survive without his heart, he's a vampire. vampires have far less weaknesses than humans. and with magic they can lessen these weaknesses. anyway dante is not a human, he's a demon. Again, what proof do you have that show's me kain is stronger than dante?

Burning thought
Kain smashes through conrete throughout the game on many occasions, picks up armour covered enemies with his hands easily, wheras Dante always uses his sword, he cant pick up his enemies with his hands or he isnt seen doing it, also it takes Dante a long time to defeat most of the enemies, even the lesser ones wheras Kain can smash through basically all his enemies and without being hit much due to his speed is far higher, although Kain uses powers more than muscle, but its commen sense that the strength of about 10 vampires would be more than 1 demon, although this is arguable without conrete evidence, but the fact that the LOK games are basically ALL gameplay and very few cinematics is another fact why you dont see many things such as Kain doing feats you cannot do ingame, however you see him teleport in cinematics and you cant ingame

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
Kain smashes through conrete throughout the game on many occasions, picks up armour covered enemies with his hands easily, wheras Dante always uses his sword, he cant pick up his enemies with his hands or he isnt seen doing it, also it takes Dante a long time to defeat most of the enemies, even the lesser ones wheras Kain can smash through basically all his enemies and without being hit much due to his speed is far higher, although Kain uses powers more than muscle, but its commen sense that the strength of about 10 vampires would be more than 1 demon, although this is arguable without conrete evidence, but the fact that the LOK games are basically ALL gameplay and very few cinematics is another fact why you dont see many things such as Kain doing feats you cannot do ingame, however you see him teleport in cinematics and you cant ingame

So, if kain ses mostly magic and his pwers to do this, how does that translate to physical strentgh?!

Vampires are stronger than demons, what's up eith these claims?

Burning thought
well theres nothing you can say to convince me is there, all you can say is that Dante can K.O Kain because hes APPARENTLY strong enough to do so and APPARENTLY fast enough to start quicksilver which IMO would take a second too long to start before Kain can Kill Dante with an instant hit soul reaver blast that is SEEn in the game SOUL REAVER and he shoots Raziel with it and instant kills him every shot, blasts his body to dust

APPARENTLY Dante will surely win because hes Dante and that hes a Demon, you havnt said one fact that puts him above Kain that is back with a fact that says Kain cannot defend against it, Kain has so many powers that its difficult to even give Dante a chance, you havnt made a truly worthy comment that makes Kain lose this, so far he can reform and the only times you see him knocked out is after having his heart torn out which is now gone, but OFC the amazing Dante can use his MEGA speed and GODLIKE strength to put his hands through Kain and make him go unconious or punch him until he blacks out with his unbeatable quick silver that lasts a few minutes roll eyes (sarcastic)

Emperor Ashtar
Originally posted by Burning thought
well theres nothing you can say to convince me is there, all you can say is that Dante can K.O Kain because hes APPARENTLY strong enough to do so and APPARENTLY fast enough to start quicksilver which IMO would take a second too long to start before Kain can Kill Dante with an instant hit soul reaver blast that is SEEn in the game SOUL REAVER and he shoots Raziel with it and instant kills him every shot, blasts his body to dust
APPARENTLY Dante will surely win because hes Dante and that hes a Demon, you havnt said one fact that puts him above Kain that is back with a fact that says Kain cannot defend against it, Kain has so many powers that its difficult to even give Dante a chance

Whatever,later

Prince Marvin
this is wrong dante wins emperor was right if u play dmc u know

Metalhead8486
ok come on people i think demons and vampires are equal in power. thes two are fast strong and have unique abilities no one can argue this subject if you havent played all 3 devil may crys and all the legacy of kain games. so if you want to factor all these things lets break it down. kain can fight with the sword. so can dante. kain can freeze time. so can dante. both are agile. both have strong swords. the sparda sword and the soul reaver.and theres differences. obviously kain is a vampire dante is a demon. kain is a full fledged vampire. dante is half demon half human but can go full demon if he wants to. and these two are from two different time periods. so different surroundings that could work the eithers advantage. kain is fast and so is dante. kain has telekensis dante dosent but like i said i think dante could break free of kains grip if dante used his devil powers cause as some of you know when mundus tried to shoot dante with his eyes it deflected off of him do to his intense demon powers so i think dante could deflect kains telekentic abilites . kain can teleport and turn mist to avoid attacks. basically this would be a fight to the finish they can both match eachother i think in every aspect. the soul reaver is a strong sword but lets not forget that dantes father used this sword and fought and stoped all the demons from entering the human world ALONE. so that sword could equal the soul reaver. i know kain can fire a blast wave to steal souls but again i think dante could deflect it due to his strong demon powers. both could probely detroy eachothers enemies. demons humans,spiders ,vampires who gives a crap. its about these two individuals against eachother.now that i think about it i dont know who would win this fight it could go either way in my opinion it all comes down to is who wants it more. so in the words of Kain "Let us continue our conversation but on a somewhat different footing" and in the words of Dante "Lets Rock"

Emperor Ashtar
But the reaver needs souls to power it or else it weakens, same with kain and blood. if this fight draws out too long, kain is screwed.

Metalhead8486
naw i dont think so i think the soul reaver is strong enough even without haveing to suck souls and i think there will be enough blood shed for kain to sustain himself i mean we are talking about a guy whos been around longer than a millenium

Metalhead8486
not to mention he is lord of all vampires

Metalhead8486
so trust me people i know my stuff iv played all games and took everything into acountability and i think it would be an even match its who wants it more

Metalhead8486
honestly this is a good fight but id rather see kain and vergil fight cause Vergil is way better than dante with the sword and hes more calm and collective and hes sick with the beowulf gauntlets and has telekentics swords. that my friends would be a fight for the ages. intense to the max

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