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Fantastic Four:
Thing
Mr.Fantastic
Human Torch
Invisible Woman

Alpha Flight:
Sasquatch
Guardian
Vindicator
Windshear

No prep. No Tanaraq.

alpha flight.

Since their not well known....

Sasquatch:
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Sasquatch_I

Guardian
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Guardian_I

Vindicator
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Vindicator_II

Windshear
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Windshear

ff.



mungi, what do YOU think . . .?

Originally posted by leonidas
ff.



mungi, what do YOU think . . .?


Why do you think FF?

why did you evade my question . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
why did you evade my question . . .

It could go either way really as I tried to match people up with similar powerlevels. Except mister fantastic as AF doesn't have any members like him.

i think it would go ff's way more often -- maybe 6/10. i actually think sas is the weaklink. in theory, if the others square off, either sue or reed are capable of putting sas down and not take too long doing it -- especially sue. that would leave it as 4 on 3, i big advanatge in a close fight.

alpha flight definately.

Originally posted by leonidas
i think it would go ff's way more often -- maybe 6/10. i actually think sas is the weaklink. in theory, if the others square off, either sue or reed are capable of putting sas down and not take too long doing it -- especially sue. that would leave it as 4 on 3, i big advanatge in a close fight.

Well would they even get a chance to take down Sas as their already in a battle with the other members? and you can say the exact same scenario of AF taking down Thing.

it's possible. i actually like the ff's odds better if reed tackles sas. sue could hold back the others while reed choked langkowski out.

i could always go uber-cheap and play the 'nova-level' blast from johnny . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
it's possible. i actually like the ff's odds better if reed tackles sas. sue could hold back the others while reed choked langkowski out.

i could always go uber-cheap and play the 'nova-level' blast from johnny . . .

Windshear can hold back the others as well, as he is like the Invisible Woman. Guardian can shut off Thing brain with a wave of his hand he doesn't need to tackle him.

There are members who can dose HT before he gets that, and I could always go uber-cheap and play the banishment card from Guardian

sas takes out thingy, and actully vindicator 2 is about the same strength as thingy. and af has better powers, oooo i can stretch, i am invisible and fire invisible shots and stuff. but af, i can shoots 250 pounds of dynamite out my hands.

Without Tanruiqui or whatever its called, Ben can probobly take Sasquatch. They are at least even

Reed is smarter than Guardian

Johnny and Sue are more powerful than anyone on Alpha Flight

FF 8/10

Assuming that both sides are blood lusted, this is how I see the fight going down:

Windshear and IW take each other out within the first 5 seconds of the fight with Windshear turning IW's blood solid and IW exploding his heart with a force field bubble. That leaves Vindicator against the Johnny, Guardian against Mr. Fantastic, and Sassy against the Thing.

Johnny would then proceed conduct a feign retreat in order to get enough distance between himself and his teammates so that he can attack Vindicator at full power without risking the lives of the rest of the F4. While Vindicator's suit has been able to absorb the heat from a nuclear blast, the strain from that was enough to short out the suit. Therefore, I doubt she could withstand Johnny's Nova attack.

In the meantime, I see Guardian taking out Mr. Fantastic in a fairly short amount of time. Mr. Fantastic can be immobilized by either a electromagnetic barrier/field or a graviton beam. Then he can easily be removed from the battle field through teleportation or a powerful E-M blast (Mr. Fantastic might return eventually but he'd be out of the immediate picture).

Just to summarize, we have Guardian against Johnny, and Sasquatch against the Thing. Again Guardian shouldn't have any trouble against Johnny as he can use many of the same tactics as above. And given his defensive abilities I'd imagine that Guardian would be able to defend himself from any of Johnny's attacks (especially since, iirc, Johnny should be slightly weakened from his earlier Nova attack).

While that is going on, Sassy and the Thing are in a relative stalemate (one or the other would eventually win but not before one is joined by a teammate thus deciding the battle). To a point they are really nonfactors as once Guardian finishes off Johnny and comes to aid Sasquatch, I think the fight is over.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Without Tanruiqui or whatever its called, Ben can probobly take Sasquatch. They are at least even

Reed is smarter than Guardian

Johnny and Sue are more powerful than anyone on Alpha Flight

FF 8/10

Maybe, as they fought twice and the first time Sasquatch had the advantage and the second Sasquatch won.

It's unknown his level of intelligence in computer mode, but he was created by the Qwrlln
http://alphanex.alphaflight.net/index.php/Qwrlln? benjami_forum_alphanex__session=c948fc8b42cae5b31e
65a7f8bc0096d9

No their not, have you seen what AF can do?

Originally posted by TheKahn
Assuming that both sides are blood lusted, this is how I see the fight going down:

Windshear and IW take each other out within the first 5 seconds of the fight with Windshear turning IW's blood solid and IW exploding his hear with a force field bubble. That leaves Vindicator against the Johnny, Guardian against Mr. Fantastic, and Sassy against the Thing.

Johnny would then proceed conduct a feign retreat in order to get enough distance between himself and his teammates so that he can attack Vindicator at full power without risking the lives of the rest of the F4. While Vindicator's suit has been able to absorb the heat from a nuclear blast, the strain from that was enough to short out the suit. Therefore, I doubt she could withstand Johnny's Nova attack.

In the meantime, I see Guardian taking out Mr. Fantastic in a fairly short amount of time. Mr. Fantastic can be immobilized by either a electromagnetic barrier/field or a graviton beam. Then he can easily be removed from the battle field through teleportation or a powerful E-M blast (Mr. Fantastic might return eventually but he'd be out of the immediate picture).

Just to summarize, we have Guardian against Johnny, and Sasquatch against the Thing. Again Guardian shouldn't have any trouble against Johnny as he can use many of the same tactics as above. And given his defensive abilities I'd imagine that Guardian would be able to defend himself from any of Johnny's attacks (especially since, iirc, Johnny should be slightly weakened from his earlier Nova attack).

While that is going on, Sassy and the Thing are in a relative stalemate (one or the other would eventually win but not before one is joined by a teammate thus deciding the battle). To a point they are really nonfactors as once Guardian finishes off Johnny and comes to aid Sasquatch, I think the fight is over.

By far, one of the best, and most concise, synopsis' related in this in this forum.

Hmm alright

Without prep, Alpha Flight 6/10

With prep, FF 9/10

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Windshear can hold back the others as well, as he is like the Invisible Woman. Guardian can shut off Thing brain with a wave of his hand he doesn't need to tackle him.

There are members who can dose HT before he gets that, and I could always go uber-cheap and play the banishment card from Guardian

difference between shear and sue -- sue could affect him inside his suit. all she needs to do is put the field inside his suit and expand it. shear is taken out. you could say he tries to attack first -- possible, but she could go invisible and move. i doubt he could find her. she would only need a moment to blow his suit open then turn on the others.

Originally posted by TheKahn
While Vindicator's suit has been able to absorb the heat from a nuclear blast, the strain from that was enough to short out the suit. Therefore, I doubt she could withstand Johnny's Nova attack.


Remember she was in a war in the microverse for days came to Department H and was under attack by the Zodiac and then did the absorption feat. We never saw her full powered absorbing something. She's badass

sue could also cause his to be unable to see if she wanted to go that way. either way, i think she has ways to buy time to take him out before he takes her out.

Originally posted by leonidas
difference between shear and sue -- sue could affect him inside his suit. all she needs to do is put the field inside his suit and expand it. shear is taken out. you could say he tries to attack first -- possible, but she could go invisible and move. i doubt he could find her. she would only need a moment to blow his suit open then turn on the others.

He has scanners, and he could literally turn all the air around him hard exploding it. So even though she is invisible she needs to breath still and he just made it all explode as he has done before.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
By far, one of the best, and most concise, synopsis' related in this in this forum.


Thanks.
cool

Originally posted by TheKahn
Thanks.
cool

Yeah actually really good, I'm glad were getting some debate

Originally posted by King_Mungi
He has scanners, and he could literally turn all the air around him hard exploding it. So even though she is invisible she needs to breath still and he just made it all explode as he has done before.

i would actually think that pretty unlikely for a couple reasons - one, the people around him would be affected, two, i wouldn't think he could actually affect the air WITHIN her personal shield. she would have that to breathe, and that would be enough to last until she took him out. there are VERY few things that can actually impact the interior of her shield.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yeah actually really good, I'm glad were getting some debate



yah, you've got a convert there. imagine, one glc member forced to square off against another!! kahn, you should be ashamed of yourself, mister!
















































incidentally, i don't feel that strongly about this fight. just loking for a decent discussion and figured no one else would want to take you on.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yeah actually really good, I'm glad were getting some debate

Well, I think it depends on how exactly you match each of the characters up. I can certainly see plausible ways for the F4 to win. If the IW focused her initial attack on taking out Guardian for example....whistling

Originally posted by leonidas


yah, you've got a convert there. imagine, one glc member forced to square off against another!! kahn, you should be ashamed of yourself, mister!

Sorry, its a bad habit left over form when you were in the KMC JLA.

Originally posted by leonidas
i would actually think that pretty unlikely for a couple reasons - one, the people around him would be affected, two, i wouldn't think he could actually affect the air WITHIN her personal shield. she would have that to breathe, and that would be enough to last until she took him out. there are VERY few things that can actually impact the interior of her shield.

1) Nope, he can control what he makes hard. He can create safe air around his teammates
2) He has made air hard past sheilds in the past.

Really it depends who gets who first, their like one in the same.

Originally posted by leonidas


incidentally, i don't feel that strongly about this fight. just loking for a decent discussion and figured no one else would want to take you on.

Hey I think it could go either way, depending who gets matched up with you

Originally posted by TheKahn
Well, I think it depends on how exactly you match each of the characters up. I can certainly see plausible ways for the F4 to win. If the IW focused her initial attack on taking out Guardian for example....whistling



Bingo, but I think that would be a bad matchup for her.

Originally posted by King_Mungi

Bingo, but I think that would be a bad matchup for her.

I'm not arguing that she'd live though it, only that for the F4 to win they have to take out Guardian damn quick. And I think the IW would be their best shot. I don't really see how they have any other choice.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I'm not arguing that she'd live though it, only that for the F4 to win they have to take out Guardian damn quick. And I think the IW would be their best shot. I don't really see how they have any other choice.

Oh yeah I concur, he's their top dog and needs to be spayed .

Hmm... Guardian has extremely advanced means of technology. His electromagnetic manipulations make him easily one of the most powerful ones here. He'd take down anybody on the FF side. Vindicator with her geothermal suit makes her have a slight advantage over the Human Torch. I'd say she'd take the majority on him. Windshear is basically even with Invisible Woman. Their powers are very similar. Sasquatch has always proven to be more than a match for the Thing. Overall, I see Alpha Flight taking this one almost every time unless the FF can somehow summon a miracle.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
1) Nope, he can control what he makes hard. He can create safe air around his teammates
2) He has made air hard past sheilds in the past.

Really it depends who gets who first, their like one in the same.



Hey I think it could go either way, depending who gets matched up with you



Bingo, but I think that would be a bad matchup for her.

sue's shields are a bit different from the normal force field. i'd still need to SEE him affect the interior of her field before i'd concede that particular detail. in any event, if he needs an element of control, were she invisible, he wouldn't know 'which air' to affect. that delay would cost him . . . she might also just be able to encase him and his armor in a shield. what makes you think his shield strength is equal to hers? she's taken repeated blows form thor's hammer, blasts from ss, johnny's nova level blast and even galactus. what's the most damage his shields have withstood?

Originally posted by leonidas
sue's shields are a bit different from the normal force field. i'd still need to SEE him affect the interior of her field before i'd concede that particular detail. in any event, if he needs an element of control, were she invisible, he wouldn't know 'which air' to affect. that delay would cost him . . . she might also just be able to encase him and his armor in a shield. what makes you think his shield strength is equal to hers? she's taken repeated blows form thor's hammer, blasts from ss, johnny's nova level blast and even galactus. what's the most damage his shields have withstood?

He senses air, not just sees it. He can even affect a person that is intangible. An inexperienced Windshear who hadn't learned his full power yet battled a bloodlust IW to a stalemate.
---------
Here's what would have happened to Vision if Windshear fought seriously.
1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-12.jpg
---------
Wow even I underestimated Windshear, here he battles some monsters in an Infinity Crusade cross-over and this deals with his powers and his past. Great character, I hope he comes out of retirement. Uber powerful, and doesn't get respect.

Feats Shown:
-Windshear uses explosive pressure punches causing alien armor, flesh and tissue to liquify
-Windshear creates hard-air needles used as machine gun fire
-Winshear alters the gases solidfying inside a respiratory system, causing blood to become glue
-Windshear's hard air punch goes through the alien ripping him in half
-Winshear makes a hard-air battling ram crushing one alien
-Winshear makes a hard air shield to delfect the two aliens away
-Winshear first manifesting his powers, turns the insides of his school bag which just had clothes to hit like it is filled with bricks
-Windshear weighs down a pipe so the criminal can't lift it, but he holds it well
-Windshear can make the air solid, heavy or poisonious
-Windshar breaks the Goddess' hold over him.

1. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-18.jpg
2. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-19.jpg
3. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-20.jpg
4. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-21.jpg
5. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-22.jpg
---------
Headlok has gained control over half of the Fantastic Four, an entire town and half of the members of Alpha Flight. Now both factions go head to head to see who is be best. Windshear just joined Alpha Flight a few issues prior to this and hadn't fully developed his powers yet. This issue has some trippy backgrounds, the artist really went over-board with the effects.

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-04.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-07.jpg
---------
Fighting off an alien invasion in Toronto, it's up to Alpha Flight to hold the fort. Thankfully in the end, Alpha Flight allies show up to lend a hand. I posted the first part on like page.6 or somewhere around there.

Feats shown:
-Windshear letting a blast of his hard air takes out an entire alien fleet
1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight98-10.jpg
2. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight98-11.jpg
---------
Turns all the air around him to solidify and this causes a large explosion.
1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight95-11.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight95-12.jpg

Originally posted by King_Mungi
He senses air, not just sees it. He can even affect a person that is intangible. An inexperienced Windshear who hadn't learned his full power yet battled a bloodlust IW to a stalemate.
---------
Here's what would have happened to Vision if Windshear fought seriously.
1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d187/A_Flight/AlphaFlight127-12.jpg
---------
Wow even I underestimated Windshear, here he battles some monsters in an Infinity Crusade cross-over and this deals with his powers and his past. Great character, I hope he comes out of retirement. Uber powerful, and doesn't get respect.

Feats Shown:
-Windshear uses explosive pressure punches causing alien armor, flesh and tissue to liquify
-Windshear creates hard-air needles used as machine gun fire
-Winshear alters the gases solidfying inside a respiratory system, causing blood to become glue
-Windshear's hard air punch goes through the alien ripping him in half
-Winshear makes a hard-air battling ram crushing one alien
-Winshear makes a hard air shield to delfect the two aliens away
-Winshear first manifesting his powers, turns the insides of his school bag which just had clothes to hit like it is filled with bricks
-Windshear weighs down a pipe so the criminal can't lift it, but he holds it well
-Windshear can make the air solid, heavy or poisonious
-Windshar breaks the Goddess' hold over him.

1. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-18.jpg
2. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-19.jpg
3. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-20.jpg
4. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-21.jpg
5. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f130/A_Flight7/AlphaFlight124-22.jpg
---------
Headlok has gained control over half of the Fantastic Four, an entire town and half of the members of Alpha Flight. Now both factions go head to head to see who is be best. Windshear just joined Alpha Flight a few issues prior to this and hadn't fully developed his powers yet. This issue has some trippy backgrounds, the artist really went over-board with the effects.

1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-04.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight94-07.jpg
---------
Fighting off an alien invasion in Toronto, it's up to Alpha Flight to hold the fort. Thankfully in the end, Alpha Flight allies show up to lend a hand. I posted the first part on like page.6 or somewhere around there.

Feats shown:
-Windshear letting a blast of his hard air takes out an entire alien fleet
1. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight98-10.jpg
2. http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f188/A_Flight5/AlphaFlight98-11.jpg
---------
Turns all the air around him to solidify and this causes a large explosion.
1. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight95-11.jpg
2. http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight95-12.jpg

hmm, interesting, but nothing sue can't or hasn't done. she seemed to be getting the best of him in the small skirmish they had, and even he doubted he could hold her back. and she was not exactly being creative, though his attacks were rudimentary as well. still,nothing you posted is anywhere near blocking a blast from galactus. and she could still render him incapable of seeing. she could even make it impossible for him to read the readouts from his armor by affecting his optic nerves directly. the effects of their powers may seem the same, but her power stems from an interdimensional source. he just uses air. edge still to sue, imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, interesting, but nothing sue can't or hasn't done. she seemed to be getting the best of him in the small skirmish they had, and even he doubted he could hold her back. and she was not exactly being creative, though his attacks were rudimentary as well. still,nothing you posted is anywhere near blocking a blast from galactus. and she could still render him incapable of seeing. she could even make it impossible for him to read the readouts from his armor by affecting his optic nerves directly. the effects of their powers may seem the same, but her power stems from an interdimensional source. he just uses air. edge still to sue, imo.

As I mentioned this was Windshear who just got his powers and not experienced as when he donned the red armor. He literally just joined the team a few days earlier. Even in that battle he wasn't creative, he can make solid air constructs but we didn't see it in that battle. Well he held Nova and captured her but when they battled Galactus he dealt with his hearld not him. She could do that, but him flying at super speeds make it diffcult for her to do that so easily. Like I said he can sense air and just make it explode I highly doubt her shield would stop that. It all depends who has the quick draw