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They have 24 hours between each Duel and anything goes

1) 5 super battle droids
2) 4 of GG Gaurds
3) Darth Maul
4) Count Dooku
5) Mace Windu
6) Yoda
7) Palpatine
8) Darth Revan

Luke Dies at either two or three, and Anakin dies at four.

They could both probably make it to around 5 or 6 if they work as a team

Yeah, but knowing anakin he would use his skill as superiority. Ultimately arrogance was his downfall remember.

i think they would fall at 8 and luke wouldnt die at two or three he is powerful jedi if anakin could keep his head straight they would make a really good team

from what i played in republic commando, the super battle droids wouldn't be as easy as any other game.

It'd take Anakin a moment to make them blast one another

i suppose anakin wouldnt keep his cool tho i think he would wana show luke who was boss and make mistakes then luke probs would be worrying about anakin and take his eye of the ball then BAM its over for Luke

Together? They make it all the way.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Together? They make it all the way.

Care to say...ya' know, why?

Motoko did you used to have a name that started with an "H"?

4

huh?

They make it to 4. Count Dooku wont underestimate Anakin again and Luke has never experienced the ultimate style of Makashi. It will pan out like in ROTS. But instead of Obi-Wan getting wtf pwned it will be Luke and Dooku wont underestimate Anakin.

Anakin might not be able to take Windu after a fight with Dooku, I say he stops there. Even if he does beat Windu by some stroke of chance he'll die from Yoda.

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
Motoko did you used to have a name that started with an "H"?

Major Motoko, Sintas Vel, Motoko Kusanagi

oh ok

Im inclined to say, they lose at 6. ROTJ Luke is severely underrated, and ROTS Anakin apparently defeated Dooku fairly anyways...so they make it past 4. Mace is roughly equal to Dooku so I say they make it past 5 as well. At 6 they get PWNED.

Oh and these rankings are messed up...Revan is definately not the strongest here.

Who is then? Yoda?

Originally posted by anakin 106
They have 24 hours between each Duel and anything goes

1) 5 super battle droids
2) 4 of GG Gaurds
3) Darth Maul
4) Count Dooku
5) Mace Windu
6) Yoda
7) Palpatine
8) Darth Revan
1. Anakin and Luke pwn, Anakin takes out 4 of them while Luke deals with the other one.
2. This would be tougher but still not a problem. Anakin wipes out 3 of them with but a little difficulty while Luke takes out one.
3. The duo again seeing as Anakin could do this alone. Luke might die but probably not cause Maul'l be to busy dealing with Anakin to kill Luke.
4. Now this is getting harder. The duo might be taken out here, Luke will die for sure and then it all depends on who gets tired sooner, Dooku or Anakin. But if Anakin makes it past here he dies at Mace.

So they probably fall at 4, if not then definately at 5.



P.S. I think the order you choose is in perfect order.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Care to say...ya' know, why?

Well,of course.They can get past 4, cause Anakin killed Dooku by himself, I doubt he'll need Luke for 1-3. If one of them dies at Dooku, the other wouldd get pissed, and we all know how Dooku fares against pissed people.It wouldn't be much harder for them to get past Mace cause Vaapad isn't that hard to beat since Dooku already bested Windu. Could he block 2 Force chokes? Yoda might be a bit harder to beat but Anakin alone is more powerful than Yoda.They can beat Palpatine cause Vader killed Palptaine in ROTJ, and Vader was much weaker in ROTJ. He would be hard to beat when Anakin's at his strongest. Revan probably isn't much more powerful than Dooku, so it'll be pretty easy to beat him.

Wow. Words fail me, I'll leave this to someone else.

Your all wrong. They lose at Yoda... it definately makes the most sense.

Originally posted by DePWNZOR
Who is then? Yoda?

Yoda or Sidious...Its really hard to tell who is more powerful between these two. I would say Sidious IMHO, but all I have is speculation, nothing concrete.

Originally posted by Razielim
Anakin might not be able to take Windu after a fight with Dooku, I say he stops there. Even if he does beat Windu by some stroke of chance he'll die from Yoda.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
You're all wrong. They lose at Yoda... it definately makes the most sense. Bingo! GV is the winner. If they don't go down at Dooku or Mace, Yoda pwns them.

Originally posted by Lord Saboteur
Bingo! GV is the winner. If they don't go down at Dooku or Mace, Yoda pwns them.
Yup

Probably 6.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Im inclined to say, they lose at 6. ROTJ Luke is severely underrated, and ROTS Anakin apparently defeated Dooku fairly anyways...so they make it past 4. Mace is roughly equal to Dooku so I say they make it past 5 as well. At 6 they get PWNED.

Oh and these rankings are messed up...Revan is definately not the strongest here.



Revan is the strongest of them . On thousand years they go from Marka, Sadow and Kressh to Exar, Malak and Revan. Do exar have a chance at Marka Ragnos ? That was thousand years. From Revan to sidious is four thousand years. On thousand years they got mush weaker . this is 4 thousand years. Use your brain. revan is the stronger than yoda and sidious . mush stronger .

Yeah, Vengence, you n00b!!!111!111!1!!! won dark jedi from kotor would like toally uber leet pwn Yoda and sidious at teh same time bcuz he is way oldzor!!11!111!!!

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yeah, Vengence, you n00b!!!111!111!1!!! won dark jedi from kotor would like toally uber leet pwn Yoda and sidious at teh same time bcuz he is way oldzor!!11!111!!!




did i say that idiot ?

You're an idiot, Findus

Unplug your computer and refrain from breathing.


Naw, I'm joking. Still, know what you're talking about before you comment.

Revan is the greatest, but not for the reasons that Findus gave.

Well they sure as Hell aren't those reasons, now what are they, then, Kent?

Sidious is only considered the strongest cause he took over the galaxy. In a one on one fight he probably couldn't beat Revan.

Why not? We see him throwing senate pods around like nothing.

We see Revan being able to force persuade a HUTT. His willpower was completely unrivaled.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Well,of course.They can get past 4, cause Anakin killed Dooku by himself, I doubt he'll need Luke for 1-3.


Oh yes. The same Dooku that completly stopped using offensive force powers when he fought Anakin alone while he tossed Obi-Wan and Anakin around like he wanted before ? They might very well go down here if Dooku uses all he could.



Yes. Because Dooku bested a 30 year old Windu it's perfectly assured that he can do the same thing to a 50 year old Windu, right ? And Vaapad must be really easy to beat considering that Mace was the only Jedi able to defeat Depa in a lightsaber fight (except Yoda) according to Yoda's words in Shatterpoint and (according to Yoda's words too) Vaapad is the "most deadly style of lightsaber combat". There you go. If they get past Dooku (and I'm almost sure Luke won't make it), Mace might very well defeat them.



Lmao. Anakin stronger than Yoda ? He's missing force control. Yoda would wtfdestroy them easily. Palpatine the same...



Get yourself a dictionary and have a look at the word "logic". Then use it...



a) He constantly fails at force persuading Hutts. He maybe persuades them, yes, but not with the force.
b) That would totally help him in a force or saber duel, right ?

Aren't hutts immune to mind tricks anyways?

He doesn't fail. It speaks volumes for his force knowledge

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Aren't hutts immune to mind tricks anyways?

Yes, they are. Hence they always drop the "I'm immune to your Jedi tricks" line, no matter if they agree or disagree with you.

@Kent:


Wow. Because he can use some force persuation (which he can't) he must be able to overcome Yoda, Sidious or Dooku and Mace. Sure. The game mechanics also enable him to survive lightsaber hits without having body parts cut off. People can't defeat him in a lightsaber fight because of that, right ?

Originally posted by Darth Findus
Revan is the strongest of them . On thousand years they go from Marka, Sadow and Kressh to Exar, Malak and Revan. Do exar have a chance at Marka Ragnos ? That was thousand years. From Revan to sidious is four thousand years. On thousand years they got mush weaker . this is 4 thousand years. Use your brain. revan is the stronger than yoda and sidious . mush stronger .

If thats true than Vodo>Yoda but thats WRONG

Vodo>Yoda. That is definite.

@Nai, the fact that he was able to force persuade a hutt, a species so strong willed that council members in the PT films believed it to be impossible. This suggests that Revan's willpower was immense.

Originally posted by Count Kent
Vodo>Yoda. That is definite.


I guess that's why Yoda is called the strongest force of light ever (meaning the strongest Jedi ever) at the time of ROTS, right ?



The fact that Hutts are totally immune to force persuation (or the "Mind trick" is a testament for Revan not being able to do this. I'm pretty sure that he always fails when he tries and if he didn't fail the makers of KotoR contradict ROTJ and Lucas directly which means - unfortunately for you - that they contradicted a far higher level of canon.

And if that's your only reason to rate Revan so high - you can drop that rating now.

Oh I have more reasons, believe me. And how does it contradict Lucas? All that it contradicts is what the jedi believe in the trilogy films. A high willpower suggest great force mastery and control.

The reason I rate Revan so higly is because of his .

Hutts are immune to Mind Tricks. Revan cannot perform that.

And any reference you make to that True Light crap and Hord's lightsaber techniques, I will edit out. It's useless gumf.

It is believed by the jedi that Hutts were immune to mind tricks. KOTOR and numerous other sources dispute this.

Originally posted by Count Kent
It is believed by the jedi that Hutts were immune to mind tricks. KOTOR and numerous other sources dispute this.

No. Luke tries this against Jabba and fails. After this Jabba himself say that Hutts are immune to that stuff. And this little fact is also stated in the "New Essential Chronology", the "Galaxy Guide 4: Alien Races" (West End Games under licence of LFL) and of course the starwars.com Databank. That despite of the mentioning of the immunity in the films (highest level of canon).

So what other sources dispute this fact, huh ?

One source alone is enough, let alone others.

Originally posted by Count Kent
One source alone is enough, let alone others.

Oh yes...one source (game mechanics) that contradicts higher level canon is not enough and since you failed to mention other sources...

It doesn't contradict higher forms of canon, it disputes an in-universe belief. And who are you to say whether one source is a higher form of canon then another?

And it is not a game mechanic. Both Revan and The Exile are able to do it in the novelisation as well.

Originally posted by Count Kent
It doesn't contradict higher forms of canon, it disputes an in-universe belief. And who are you to say whether one source is a higher form of canon then another?

It disputes a direct quote from the films not contradicted in any other source. And I don't have to say what source is the higher level of canon because there is a "canon policy" given out by Lucasfilm and it says that Lucas own word > Films > Novels > Expanded Universe > Games.

And since the fact that Hutts are immune to force persuation or the "Mind trick" is given in the Films and in the Expanded Universe a game can't contradict it. Period.



Yes. It is a game mechanic because the KotoR games are based on RPG systems that deceide if a force action is sucessful or not. Game mechanics. And what novelisations are you talking about ? Count Kent's Great Revan Fanboy stories ?

Firstly, canon is a point of view and not clearly defined, so nobody can decide whether one source is a higher form of canon then another source.

Secondly, Hutts being immune to jedi mind tricks is an in-universe belief held by jedi such as Yoda, an infallible third party. KOTOR and other sources dispute this.

Thridly, there is a novelisation of KOTOR, as well as a comic, cartoon and a script which is available online for the said cartoon.;

Originally posted by Count Kent
Firstly, canon is a point of view and not clearly defined, so nobody can decide whether one source is a higher form of canon then another source.

Oh genious. Better keep your mouth shut when you know nothing about the topic you want to talk about.

Lucasfilm has any right to deceide on the canon levels of certain sources in the Star Wars universe because they own the universe. Understood it ?



Wow genious. Luke tries to use the Jedi Mind trick on Jabba and fails - so obviously they are immune to that sort of force influence. And Jabba states himself that this is the case. Was he wrong about his own species or did Luke just fail because not beeing powerful enough ?



Fan work ?

1. You need to understand the concept of canon.
2. It was believed that Hutts were immune to jedi mind tricks, however KOTOR disputes this. The jedi in the movies were clearly wrong, as were the hutts and were just not strong enough in the force.
3. Released by a sister company to Lucasarts.

Originally posted by Count Kent
We see Revan being able to force persuade a HUTT. His willpower was completely unrivaled.

Is that Canon NO because the Lightside was Canon and as I recall from the game most dealing with Hutts resulted in the DARK SIDE

Ill have to ask why revan is the last again... he havnt shown that he would be able to beat anakin alone...

Originally posted by Count Kent
1. You need to understand the concept of canon.
2. It was believed that Hutts were immune to jedi mind tricks, however KOTOR disputes this. The jedi in the movies were clearly wrong, as were the hutts and were just not strong enough in the force.
3. Released by a sister company to Lucasarts.


1. No, the films are a much higher canon than anything else....
2. And why was it belived? Because it was tried and had failed. I remember them saying the same in KOTOR 2. And are you sure it is "force persuade" and not just persuade? I just looked at KOTOR, at the persuade skills it doesn't say "force" next to it either. And the text neraby it goes, "this helps you to convince someone or something by revealing maybe something that is very important to them. It might not be hard to convince a bounty hunter to get an increased charge, but it will be much harder to convince him to leave". It doesn't really say force anywhere, just how you talk smart...

Originally posted by Count Kent
1. You need to understand the concept of canon.
2. It was believed that Hutts were immune to jedi mind tricks, however KOTOR disputes this. The jedi in the movies were clearly wrong, as were the hutts and were just not strong enough in the force.
3. Released by a sister company to Lucasarts.

1. He understands it way better than you do. KMC's standing on canon is that the movies overrule everything else, sharing this view with George Lucas himself.
2. Hutts ARE immune to Mind Tricks. KOTOR's game mechanics mean nothing compared to a scene from Return of the Jedi.
3. ...so? Who cares?

that one scene in Rotj doesn't mean that hutts are resistant to mind tricks, Jabba could have just been particularly strong-minded.

Blaxican understands. Even if the movies were the highest form of canon (which seems to be the policy at these forums and I will now comply), in-Universe explenations and beliefs can still be disputed by lower levels of canon.

Dude, I understand EVERYTHING. If I were to throw away my trolling attitude, actually get serious, and try to put any effort in my posts, it is quite possible that I could become top tier...

Echuu-Shen Jon also tried to use mind trick on a Hutt, didn't work. Jabba cared only for one thing, power. He said himself that mind tricks doesn't work, why would he belive that about his own species if he didn't have proof?

And as I have said before, persuade in KOTOR means you talk the person into doing something, it doesn't necessarily have to mean you take over his mind with a mind trick. That is why there is another ability you can learn in KOTOR, called MIND TRICK....



And even IF the case was that Jabba were strong minded, then mabey the Hutt in KOTOR were so incredibley weak minded that Revan could take over his mind, which does not expand any of Revan's power a single bit....

Originally posted by Count Kent
1. You need to understand the concept of canon.


No. You need to understand the concept of canon. Lucasfilm has installed different levels of canon. In short:

G-Canon: Lucas own words, the movies, movie novelizations, scripts
C-Canon: Everything that is happening in the Expanded Universe (novels, comics, cartoons). Games and RPGs (this includes KotoR) are only rated C-Canon for the "canon" storyline (lightside for KotoR) and the background information given.
S-Canon: Story is considered not canon but the elements that don't contradict the higher levels (G and C) are considered canon.
N-Canon: Non-Canon.



And here the fun starts.

a) I checked the two scenes in KotoR and you can only use normal persuation against the Hutts - no force persuation. Even if it's possible to do this you will encounter problem "b"

b) The meeting with the Hutts isn't part of the official storyline since you don't need that meetings to solve the game - placing those meeting in the N-Canon department.

c) ROTJ (G-canon) as well as serveral C-Canon sources say that Hutts are immune to this particular Jedi power. And that's it.



A sister company of Lucas Arts. Hilarious. The only official KotoR comics I know are Crossroads, Commencement and Flashpoint. And I didn't see the Exile or Revan there. So what material are you talking about ?

And yes..."in universe beliefs" can be argued. The point is that this "in universe believe" is handed out as a fact in other material. And even if this won't be a fact you can't conclude anything out of the situation that Revan was able to use a Mind trick on a Hutt other that he possibly is more powerful then people who tried and failed at doing the same. That would be...ROTJ Luke ? Wow. So Revan > ROTJ Luke but where is your proof that he is above Sidious or Yoda ? You don't have it. Then don't assume stuff like that.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

And I have already said that I know realise that 'G-Canon: Lucas' own words.......N-Canon: Not canon' is the policy of these forums and I have since been following that policy. However KOTOR (being C canon) does not dispute a higher form of canon because what it is disputing is an in-universe explanation.

Originally posted by Count Kent
And I have already said that I know realise that 'G-Canon: Lucas' own words.......N-Canon: Not canon' is the policy of these forums and I have since been following that policy. However KOTOR (being C canon) does not dispute a higher form of canon because what it is disputing is an in-universe explanation.

The canon policy isn't the policy of this forum - it was created by Lucasfilm to keep the continuity of the SW universe in line. Meaning this is the official SW canon policy.

And this canon policy says that only the main story line of the games (including background information) is C-Canon. Does the main story line of KotoR (Revan's search for the Star Forge) make it necessary to talk to any Hutt or force persuade them ? The answer is: No.

So this event (if it even happens) isn't part of the C-Canon but either S-Canon or N-Canon making it less valueable then the information handed out in serveral C-Canon sources.

And even if that wouldn't be the case it would proof nothing because force persuation says nothing about the fighting abilities of a person or I can say that those Hutts were young or especially weak-minded. So what ? Revan isn't the strongest here...

Just to correct you, Nai, there are two other CW comics: Unseen, Unheard and Light and Shadow...not ongoing, but oneshots.

But yes, we already know of two other species totally immune to mindtricks: Toydarians and Yinchorri...It's not an exemption, some species are naturally strong minded

Hutts, Toydarians, Yinchorri, and a few of their related species.

It is the policy of the forum, Nai, in addition to George Lucas's policy.

And regardless of whether or not you consider the scene C-Canon or lower, you're still wrong, Kent. You can't use Force persuasion, as Nai and Kamikz have pointed out, in that part of the game when talking to the Hutt.

IIRC he can.

Then you don't remember correctly, do you?