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As a sign of my return. . .could Tyranus take on the father and son team?

yes. with the force.

Welcome back.



And no he cant.

Yeah, he can. Luke sucks...

Tyranus wipes out Luke and then gets cocky and ends up like he did in ROTS - that is, without a head.

Lol, this is pretty much like ROTS Anakin duplicated. Against Tyrannus.

It's possible Dooku could win. He does fairly good against two opponents and the outcome could be different.

Hardly. He's up against two very strong people, one of whom is already better than him

Anakin himself wins.

what about THE FORCE!!! he picks them both up and smashes them obi wan style. fight over.

Can he do that to Anakin? If he could have why didn't he in ROTS? (And the "Dooku threw the fight" crap people say isn't an answer seeing as the ROTS Novel and Lucas himself say otherwise.)

Dooku admits himself in LOE that Anakin's force powers are getting quite powerful. So I doubt he could just "pick him up and smash him".

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
what about THE FORCE!!! he picks them both up and smashes them obi wan style. fight over.

Exactly. He could easy pull that off.


Fight ensues. Dooku rapes Luke. Anakin charges at Dooku and Dooku picks him up and throws him against a wall and then unleashes Sith Lightning. Case closed.

What the hell? anakin's already more powerful than Dooku

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Can he do that to Anakin? If he could have why didn't he in ROTS? (And the "Dooku threw the fight" crap people say isn't an answer seeing as the ROTS Novel and Lucas himself say otherwise.)

Dooku admits himself in LOE that Anakin's force powers are getting quite powerful. So I doubt he could just "pick him up and smash him".


In RotS, he was performing under arrogance. He wanted to show his master that he could dominate the little bastard by pure Lightsaber action only. Kenobi was a more accomplished master than Anakin and he himself got thrown under a balcony.

Anakin was getting pretty powerful, but if Dooku was utilizing the force against him, Dooku would ruin Anakin. I mean, Anakin got plopped against the wall simply from a back kick.

Dooku was fighting to the best of his ability..

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku was fighting to the best of his ability..

Dooku was DUELING to the best of his ability. He was outmaneuvered in a contest of Lightsabers.

If he were to have a Force fight with Anakin, Anakin would have lost. If he decided to just off Anakin with the Force, he could do it. Dooku was being arrogant in front of Palpatine.

Anakin 'I collapse a building by yelling' Skywalker? Kid's already got more raw power than any other Jedi.

Dooku wasn't being arrogant, he was fighting best he could because if he didn't, he's die and he knew it

if he can wreck obi wan, who proved to be equal to anakin in force than how in heel can that mean he cant beat anakin in a contest of the force???

Equal? A single force push shows that?

In LOE it shows clearly that Anakin is far superior to Obi-wan force wise.

As LS said, he collapsed a building by getting angry and yelling.

That was his raw force potential, something he didn't know how to use at that time. Even when he tweaked on Asajj. He didn't know how to unlock those things during that point at time. That's why he HAD POTENTIAL. He never unlocked it. That's the whole purpose.

When Anakin and Kenobi force pushed each other, It showed they were equally on par.

Anakin would have been more powerful than Dooku in the force but he would not have known how to unlock it. Dooku would have fried him by the time he would have started freaking out.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Equal? A single force push shows that? Yes. they were both trying there hardest on the push and it was equal.

Or more realsticially, the force of Anakin's anger striking Dooku would obliterate him

Originally posted by Xavius
Dooku would have fried him by the time he would have started freaking out.

With what? Force Lightning? Laughable, because AOTC Kenobi blocks it with a single hand gripping his saber.

Oh I see. Since Kenobi can block it, Anakin can too, right?

Laughable, because Anakin got hurled across a room by Dooku using a simple quick one-handed strand of Lightning.

Originally posted by Xavius
Oh I see. Since Kenobi can block it, Anakin can too, right?

Considering AOTC Kenobi would be ripped to shreds by ROTS Anakin: yes.

And not even that, the simple fact all Anakin has to do is hold his saber up is why he could do such.



Hardly.



Which Anakin are we talking about? AOTC or ROTS? I was under the impression Revenge of the Sith Anakin, ya' know the one where he's gained a multitude of power? "My powers have doubled since the last time we've met, Count...". Even if you don't accept Anakin's POV, that much is obvious.

Come on, Anakin already whipped Dooku. Add Luke and Dooku gets pawned.

Remember that when Anakin defeated Dooku, Sidious was right in front of them and we all know he wanted anakin to win. Dont you think he had influence in the fight, like blinding Dookus reflexes for a moment with the force? Dooku has shown in the movies and books he can keep up with Mace and Yoda. He is still a level above Anakin by the time of ROTS if you ask me. Add Luke and you have 2 dead Skywalkers..

Originally posted by henniestevens
like blinding Dookus reflexes for a moment with the force?

Considering nothing supports that theory - no.

Originally posted by henniestevens
Remember that when Anakin defeated Dooku, Sidious was right in front of them and we all know he wanted anakin to win. Dont you think he had influence in the fight, like blinding Dookus reflexes for a moment with the force? Dooku has shown in the movies and books he can keep up with Mace and Yoda. He is still a level above Anakin by the time of ROTS if you ask me. Add Luke and you have 2 dead Skywalkers..
Anakin is far much more powerful than Mace and Yoda combined. If Dooku was higher, why didn't he do something when Anakin cut off his hand? Anyway I think ROTJ is about as powerful as ROTS Anakin

Far much more powerful than Yoda and Mace combined? Oh....kay....

Far more powerful than Yoda and Mace combined? wtf????????

Dooku was tired after being double teamed by Obi and Anakin. That's why "Anakin cut off his hand".

Abd ROTJ Luke is nowhere near ROTS Anakin. Anakin has more force potential, and is way better with a saber.

ROTJ Luke?!

No, he means in the entire Universe at the time of RotJ. Hence ROTJ.

Originally posted by Razielim
Far much more powerful than Yoda and Mace combined? Oh....kay....
He kills thousands of Jedi. Do you really think another two would be much of challange?

If Dooku truly was holding back against Obi-Wan and Anakin, then I'm sure he'd beat Luke and Anakin.

If he was giving his all... then I'd say he loses. Barely.

He wasn't. The only person holding back was Anakin.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Considering AOTC Kenobi would be ripped to shreds by ROTS Anakin: yes.

And not even that, the simple fact all Anakin has to do is hold his saber up is why he could do such.



Hardly.



Which Anakin are we talking about? AOTC or ROTS? I was under the impression Revenge of the Sith Anakin, ya' know the one where he's gained a multitude of power? "My powers have doubled since the last time we've met, Count...". Even if you don't accept Anakin's POV, that much is obvious.

Yeah, because it's that easy. You don't just hold your Lightsaber up to block Lightning. Dooku could just apply two hands and knock his Lightsaber right out of his hands.

Of course his powers have doubled, but he still had significant trouble overpowering Dooku. Hell, he had to apply anger to defeat him in a contest of Lightsabers. Dooku was arrogant and thought he could take Anakin with pure saber to saber action and he was wrong. But if Dooku used the Force at that point, he could have tooled Anakin.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Equal? A single force push shows that?

Hey listen Notice not once did Dooku use Force Lightning

Originally posted by DePWNZOR
Far more powerful than Yoda and Mace combined? wtf????????

Dooku was tired after being double teamed by Obi and Anakin. That's why "Anakin cut off his hand".

Abd ROTJ Luke is nowhere near ROTS Anakin. Anakin has more force potential, and is way better with a saber.

Now you're just making pathetically ridiculous statements.

Dooku wasn't tired at all. I'm sure he was tired when he fended both of them off, kicked one into a wall and smashed the other one under a balcony.

He was outmaneuvered by Anakin who cut off BOTH of his hands by physically pushing his forearms over Dooku's and turning his wrists to amputate both hands. Dooku didn't expect such an unorthodox maneuver and died because of it. It's that simple.

Originally posted by Xavius
Yeah, because it's that easy. You don't just hold your Lightsaber up to block Lightning. Dooku could just apply two hands and knock his Lightsaber right out of his hands.

And? Lightning has been shown to be blockable through a lightsaber. Anakin has a lightsaber, if AOTC Kenobi can grip one damn hand while Dooku fires one hand of Force lightning, I'm sure ROTS Anakin can do the same, and if Dooku uses another hand? Does it really take a genius to figure out that it's getting more powerful, therefore you should grip two hands on the lightsaber? No, it really doesn't.

And the rest you just took to a different level.

Originally posted by Xavius
Now you're just making pathetically ridiculous statements.

Dooku wasn't tired at all. I'm sure he was tired when he fended both of them off, kicked one into a wall and smashed the other one under a balcony.

He was outmaneuvered by Anakin who cut off BOTH of his hands by physically pushing his forearms over Dooku's and turning his wrists to amputate both hands. Dooku didn't expect such an unorthodox maneuver and died because of it. It's that simple.

Thank you

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
And? Lightning has been shown to be blockable through a lightsaber. Anakin has a lightsaber, if AOTC Kenobi can grip one damn hand while Dooku fires one hand of Force lightning, I'm sure ROTS Anakin can do the same, and if Dooku uses another hand? Does it really take a genius to figure out that it's getting more powerful, therefore you should grip two hands on the lightsaber? No, it really doesn't.

And the rest you just took to a different level.

No, you're not sure. Anakin and Kenobi practice different Lightsaber styles. Kenobi has a defensive style, so it's easier for him to block things such as Lightning. It might not be as easy for Anakin, whom got thrown against a wall in AOTC by the same type of Lightning blast.

If Dooku were to use two handed Lightning on Anakin if he blocked it with his Lightsaber, I'm sure he could knock it out of his hands. Dooku's one handed displayed powerful results when Anakin flew across the Hangar. Two handed? You can say goodbye to Anakin's defense there IF he can even manage to block it.

Originally posted by Xavius
No, you're not sure. Anakin and Kenobi practice different Lightsaber styles.

You're going to tell me I'm not sure? Excuse me, but no - I'm positive.

As well, what does standing 20 feet away have to do with saber styles and blocking lightning? Mace Windu practices Vaapad! z0mg He can block lightning!



Really? I wasn't aware holding your saber up with one hand is hard. WTF kind of retarded crap is this? Your lightsaber's power isn't changed by your saber style.



Keywords: In and AOTC.



Here I'll be Xavius: No, you're not sure.

Seriously though, proof? Waiting for something to back up your claims, but I really don't see anything that strongly suggests in your favor.



Yeah, when Anakin was:

1.) Rushing him.
2.) Less powerful.
3.) Less experienced.

What was Kenobi doing btw? Oh yeah, standing in a damn spot. Whoa! That's f*cking hard, isn't it. Mace was even blocking a two handed Force lightning given off by Sidious. Who's Sidious again? Oh yeah, he's Dooku's superior. And Mace doesn't use a defensive form anyways.

The point being: Lightning has been shown to be blockable by means of a lightsaber. Anakin uses a lightsaber. Add to the fact Anakin is among the top combatants of the PT, and there you go.



Yeah, and you can also wake up from your dream world where lightning > everything.

He's not saying that. He and I are just saying Dooku will defeat Ani in combat now stop arguing you have lost

Originally posted by Xavius


Luke, who had less training during ROTJ than Anakin does ROTS, was able to deflect lightning in ROTJ and last quite a while and Sidious was using two hands.

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
He's not saying that He and I are just saying Dooku will defeat Ani

Can you even read? I know Japanese isn't your strong point, maybe English isn't either?

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Luke, who had less training during ROTJ than Anakin does ROTS, was able to deflect lightning in ROTJ and last quite a while and Sidious was using two hands.

Yeah, and Luke ended up on the ground slithering and defenseless because of two handed Lightning.

Dooku>>Ani>Luke
Sooo Dooku>Luke and Ani

Originally posted by Xavius
Yeah, and Luke ended up on the ground slithering and defenseless because of two handed Lightning.

Even in his surprise, the young Jedi tries to use the
Force to deflect them. At first he is half successful, but after a
moment the bolts of energy are coming with such speed and power the
young Jedi shrinks before them, his knees buckling. - ROTJ Script.

Seems someone lowly in comparison to Anakin can even partially block off lightning; albeit it eventually overcome him anyways. Now - how much saber training has Luke had compared to Anakin? Form mastery? Not even close. Force power to Anakin's? Ha. No.

Anakin beat Dooku fair and square. Dooku didn't use the Force because he couldn't, if he stopped dueling for even half a second Anakin would have had him. There was never a chance to use the Force. The power of Djem So overwhelmed him.

And Luke didn't deflect any lightning even though the script says he did, in this case the movie is different. Watch it again, absolutely no lightning is deflected.

Originally posted by darthsith19
And Luke didn't deflect any lightning even though the script says he did, in this case the movie is different. Watch it again, absolutely no lightning is deflected.

Too bad for me then. The rest still stands.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
You're going to tell me I'm not sure? Excuse me, but no - I'm positive.

Tha'ts exactly what I said. I don't remember stuttering.



What the F*CK are you talking about?





It takes skill to block several strands of sporadic Lightning heeding towards you. Especially if two handed Lightning is administered.





Hypocrisy is such a bold and obvious thing sometimes.

Yes, because, we have NEVER seen Lightsabers knocked out of peoples hands due to overpowering Lightning. Nor have we seen failed attempts at blocking Lightning.

^ Sarcasm.





Mace is alot more experienced than Kenobi or Anakin and he was struggling with all of his power to keep his Lightsaber from flying away.



What the hell? That's your proof?

"Anakin has a Lightsaber. Therefore, he can automatically block Lightning."

Retarded. And like I said, even if he did, Dooku just adds another hand and doubles the power and there goes Anakins lightsaber.




LOL! Hypocrite. Wake up from YOUR dream world where Lightsabers don't always automatically block Lightning.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Anakin beat Dooku fair and square. Dooku didn't use the Force because he couldn't, if he stopped dueling for even half a second Anakin would have had him. There was never a chance to use the Force. The power of Djem So overwhelmed him.

And Luke didn't deflect any lightning even though the script says he did, in this case the movie is different. Watch it again, absolutely no lightning is deflected.

Uh, Dooku had bootf*cked Anakin into the nearest wall. He could have just choked Kenobi, turned around and zapped Anakin while he was sitting there for around ten seconds waiting for Kenobi to get crushed under a balcony.

Im hearing alot of bullsh*t here. No Dooku didnt throw his fight in ROTS but he didnt fight to the best of his ability either. He wasnt concerned about defeat because he was under the assumption that Sids would step in. This meant he could spend more time taunting and less time fighting.
And he was under the orders NOT TO KILL Anakin in the first place. He was to be used as a general or something. So once again he wasnt fighting to the best of his abilities.
Dooku is a better fighter than Anakin. Its that simple. Anakin certainly has more potential but in ROTS he hasnt been able to utilise it like Dooku has. Dookus arrogance cost him the fight - not his duelling ability.

Then there is Luke. POtential yes but once again he hasnt learned how to utilise it. He would get wtf pwned in less time than Kenobi (because Kenobi uses a defencive style). So then it will be a duel with Dooku and Anakin. Dooku being the more skilled duellist who wont have the same arrogance he had in ROTS will win.

Originally posted by Xavius
that'ts exactly what I said. I don't remember stuttering.

Oh, you're quite the back talker. I like that.



I'm talking about the fact you said "Kenobi and Anakin practice different saber styles". Yeah, so does Mace Windu - yet he blocked Sidious lightning. Saber styles have nothing to do with blocking Force lightning. The point you made was irrelevant.



So skilled, in fact, that Obi-Wan can stand there with one damn hand and block it! Yes, it's hard. But, if Kenobi can easily do it - ROTS Anakin, who is greater than AOTC Kenobi, could do the same. Why? Let's recap:

1.) ROTS Anakin is physically stronger than AOTC Kenobi. Also note what a nice grip his mechanical hand would give anyways.
2.) ROTS Anakin is more powerful in the Force than AOTC Kenobi.
3.) AOTC Kenobi easily blocked Dooku's lightning with one hand.

Instead of Connect Four, it's Connect Three.



You're a poet now?

Hm, I have the fact lightsabers have been shown to be blocked (especially Dooku's on two occasions); you have your baseless bullsh*t that you pull from your ass.



Point being: AOTC Kenobi did it easily.



And Sidious is far more experienced than Dooku. The point was that Force lightning is able to be blocked by means of a lightsaber, AOTC Kenobi did it with Dooku easily, so god damn easy with one hand vs. one hand. Two hand vs. two hand would be that much different? Especially considering how much more powerful Anakin is than AOTC Kenobi.



No, that's my point.

I can't wait for yours! Oh yes, I forgot the piss poor rebuttals you've made count for what again? Ah yeah, jack.



No. Take all of what I've been posting and simply put it together. You don't seem like you're a moron (note I say "seem" because as the conversation continues my opinion is started to differ).

You gave a few excuses: "Different saber styles lolz!". Wow, that matters how much exactly? When Kenobi was twenty feet away? When all he did was lift a hand?



Who's stronger and more powerful - AOTC Kenobi or ROTS Kenobi? ROTS Kenobi.

Who's more powerful than AOTC Kenobi? ROTS Anakin. Who's - at the least - on par with ROTS Kenobi? ROTS Anakin.

Is it really that hard for you to connect the dots? That AOTC Kenobi easily deflected Dooku's lightning one handed.

The entire thing is: you act as if adding another hand in a lightning attack will increase its power tenfold.



Right, because calling me a hypocrite is the same as me actually being a hypocrite? It's not.

Good tactic though I'll give you that.



I know that. Which is why I said "add to the fact Anakin is far greater than AOTC Kenobi". The evidence is clear, you just refuse to accept it.

And btw, if you're going to address my points, make sure you address all of them. Maybe tomorrow when I'm not as tired we'll see how this goes on.

Finally, give me a scan, a quote, anything that looks in your favor for ROTS Anakin not being able to block a lightning attack from Dooku. Here's what you gave me so far:

1.) Different saber styles.

Wow, okay? Like your saber style matters in standing in one spot, holding it with one hand. Mace was able to do such to Sidious having a different style.

2.) Dooku will add another hand, and Anakin's saber will magically blast from his hand.

Does Force lightning increase tenfold? Kenobi did it with one hand against one hand. All Anakin has to do is add another hand, he's physically stronger than Kenobi, and from his hand you can tell he'd have a better grasp.

3.) gsdgv-

Basically just idiotic bullsh*t, not responding to the original statements.

Sorry, Ox, Dooku was fighting to his best, supported and confirmed.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sorry, Ox, Dooku was fighting to his best, supported and confirmed.

Yes but only at the end after he had spent all his time taunting Anakin and getting him angered. And an angered Anakin is much harder to beat than a calm Anakin. So Dooku gave up his chance to beat Anakin quickly (which he could of with relative ease) and taunted him until Anakin overwhelmed him. So basically Dooku could have won but dug his own grave so to speak by taunting Anakin.

Dooku fought seriously against Ani before that. He realized if he didn't, he'd die

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku fought seriously against Ani before that. He realized if he didn't, he'd die

No. Dooku had no need to fight seriously before the end of the fight because he was under the impression Sids would step in and help if anything went wrong. Dooku is a better duellist but Anakins raw power when he is angry in nearly unstoppable. This is why Dooku taunted Anakin instead of killing him quickly. He didnt realise Anakins true physical strength until it was to late. However at the beginning of the battle it would have been relatively simple for the Count to win.

I'm not here to impress you so save it.




Are you . . . Oh my f*cking god. I'm going to seizure. Dude, a more defensive Lightsaber style is obviously going to have better odds blocking something such as Lightning. Soresu is the practice of defensive maneuvers and BLOCKING and deflecting such things as Blaster bolts and debris. Mace's style happens to be a very widespread form. It's quite effective to be honest and it's very domesticated.

Vapaad requires mastery of several other Forms. Mace possessed a vista of knowledge about Lightsaber combat and that's why he was able to block the Lightning.

Saying that Lightsaber Forms have nothing to do with blocking lightning is RIDICULOUS! It's absolutely absurd and I've never heard anything so stupid in my entire life.







Kenobi and Anakin are two different people with different training. Saying that because one person can do it, indicates that another person may do it while ignoring the essence of skill is Logical Fallacy at it's finest.





1) Good for him. This doesn't mean he requires the skill to block the torrent of Lightning. He may not possess the correct maneuver to fend it off. And just because he has a mechanical hand does not mean he can resist two handed Lightning from an experience Sith Lord. He couldn't do it in AOTC. He may not be able to do it anymore.

2) I'm sure this has alot to do with raising your Lightsaber up against Lightning. By the way, the final battle indicated they were on par at that point due to the parallel power of their Force pushes.

3) Is Obi Wan Kenobi the same person as Anakin? Does he practice the same Form? Is he the same size? Does he have the same speed? How many times do I have to repeat myself?





You're damn right I'm a f*cking poet.




^ Irrelevant shit. Moving on . . .





Oh I see. Kenobi did it so that means EVERYONE can do it now. I don't think so. Even those who can do it may not be able to handle powerful strains of Lightning. Yoda proved this on RotS, when he went to block Sidious' Lightning and his Saber went flying.





You're perpetually repeating yourself over and over AND OVER again! You have nothing else, really.

If Dooku put both hands in Lightning action and applied maximum power, I can guarantee a Lightsaber would go flying. Dooku had spat out a little strain of one handed Lightning that pierced Anakin and it sent him across the damn hangar! What do you think is going to happen if Dooku applies effort against a weightless Lightsaber? IT'S GOING TO GO FLYING!





Bah, petty sarcasm. I have no use for it, you hypocrite. Your retorts aren't any better.





It seems as if your beloved Anakin ATTEMPTED to block the Count's Lightning but it was too powerful.

The AotC Scripture:

ANAKIN raises his
lightsaber. At the last moment, COUNT DOOKU thrusts out an
arm and unleashes a blast of Force lightning. ANAKIN is
hurled across the room, and slammed into the opposite wall.






Why is Strength essence to you? It isn't all about strength. It's about form, finesse, agility, technique . . . Certain Lightsaber forms work better on certain things. AotC proved that.



AotC Kenobi had increased skill in Soresu; a Defensive form! He defended the Lightning with ease because that is the job of the form he uses. When Anakin tried to defend, he failed. His form is not proficient with such advanced defensive maneuvers.

And yes, the Lightning streams from each finger. If you add another hand, you have more finger which is a larger quantity of Lightning. And you can strain yourself to apply more power into the Lightning as you shoot it out.







All I read was "Blah, blah, blah . . . I like to spit useless irrelevant crap."






Your evidence is bullshit and it is an example of Logical Fallacy.



Considering you repeat yourself continuously, I feel there is no need for ME to do the same.



1) I've replied to this already. You're truly repeating yourself. How can you NOT notice it?

Look:



^ Compare that to 1. It's the same shit. You running dry, or what?

2) ROFL!!!! I've already replied to this as well!

LOOK:





Hahaha!







Don't talk to yourself. It's not healthy. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

so why is this even a question. in frickin ROTS we SEE anakin defeat dooku on the invisible hand. not only did dooku get defeated but he got his fuking head chopped off. clearly anakin can kick his ass. luke would just be on the sidelines cheerleading. and no obi wan had nothing to do with the outcome of the fight at all.

Even as Mech Vader, Anakin was able to block lightning, if this was something he learned later on or already knew I have no clue off....

the trick to blocking lightning: hold up your saber. i dont thinkl it gets any more technical than that.

Wowza! I had absolutely no idea saber FORMS had ANYTHING to do with blocking force lightning. Sure, a saber form may provide more defense or offence depending on the form, but it doesn't mean it makes it more/less capable of blocking lightning. A saber is a saber.

The effects of force lightning depends on the user; the more adept one is in the force, the more powerful they are in the skill. If one is unable to block lightning it is probably because the lightning is too powerful to block in the first place. It has nothing to do with the "fighting style" they are defending with. At least... I don't think so.

Dooku wins. He could have taken Anakin easily, after he force pushed Kenobi.l Anakin was completely vunerable, and Kenobi was out of commision. Dooku could have fried him with lightening.

Dooku wins: case closed

Oh man, fear Xavius. He's not here to impress, he's here to embarrass himself.



First off, not a "dude". So, don't address me as such.



"Dude", did you not see AOTC? How Kenobi just raised his saber up with one hand? Seriously, tell me how STANDING in ONE SPOT and raising your saber with ONE HAND is a reflection of your saber style.



As much is obvious, but tell me where it's even implied his form had anything to do with it when we've seen lightning being blocked by Yoda and Mace?



Sadly Vaapad does not require Soresu mastery. It is not a defensive form. Not to mention Vaapad even draws from Form V.



Do you read what you type? Yeah, I'd submit that's quite a bit stupider. As well, you've yet to prove anything. All you're saying is "z0mg ridiculus!" and "hehehe hypocriet!!!!". You throw sh*t around (literally), act like you have Premenstrual Syndrome, and don't accomplish anything.



Ignoring the essence of skill? Lol. Anakin is more skilled than Kenobi, Anakin is stronger than Kenobi. Anakin is more agile than Kenobi. Kenobi effortlessly blocked Dooku's lightning with one hand. Tell me, please, what in God's name kind of skill did Kenobi show when he did that? You're spewing around that his saber style is defensive, therefore that's the reason he can block lightning, but no - ignore the fact Mace can, and come up with "z0mg he's experienced so he c4n" typical bullsh*t. Really now.



Show me where the prerequisites for blocking lightning are, and you'll have an argument.



Lol, maneuver now? All he did was RAISE his lightsaber, is that really a maneuver? Watch the AOTC scene and you'll see just how facilely Obi-Wan defends.



I never said he can resist it because of that. I said he'll have a better grip than Kenobi. As well, AOTC Anakin was:

1.) Rushing in (and sorry, watch the AOTC movie - not the script - Anakin never puts his lightsaber up in defense, if anything it's only describing the fact he rushed in).
2.) Far less experienced.
3.) Far less powerful.

So, you comparing AOTC Anakin to ROTS Anakin is pretty asinine seeing as how they are completely different.



I'm sure raising your lightsaber requires great skill.



No, is Mace the same person as Obi-Wan? No.



Can Anakin raise his lightsaber? Yes.



He's built stronger than Obi-Wan is. So, I'm not sure where your "size matters" goes here when the advantage goes to Anakin.



Do you know? No. For all I know they could be the same speed. If anything Anakin > Kenobi in this aspect too. Add to the statement: these are all irrelevant.



Well, as long as you continue to post bullsh*t - I'm going to have to continuously reply. Your entire point is they're not the same person - well no sh*t. However, Anakin possessing more skill, more agility, more raw power, more strength is the reason why I'm even arguing.

Answer me this: Do you own AOTC? If you answered "YES" to this question, put it on and watch Obi-Wan raise his lightsaber (and that's ALL he does) and the lightning goes straight to Kenobi's saber. He doesn't even move! Seriously explain to me:

a.) How that's a maneuver.
b.) How that would require a huge amount of skill.

And, you're going to say "saber styles!!". Do saber styles change the power of your lightsaber? No. Anakin can block blaster bolts, except he turns them into offensive moves. Form V was developed by Form III masters. So he can't hold up his saber when there is an amount of lightning heading towards him?



You're right atm I don't have access to comics or anything of the like, nor would I want to get them anyways. Right now I have simple facts, and common sense. You have...neither. All you have is lame tactics like responding entirely as saying "H1PP0CRIT!!///1", and "REP33TER", and "z0mg SAB3r 5TY135!!/! 1 h4v3 PM5!!".

Have you shown me anything solid?



Good, sound logic. The thing is - the lightsaber is an inanimate object. Can I redirect you to Mace and Sidious' fight? What happened btw? Mace was able to block Sidious' constant two handed lightning. He was struggling to hold it down no doubt, but Sidious is more powerful than Dooku anyways. To think that it's just going to fly because he adds another hand is ludacris. Why? Because if that were true, Dooku would use it at every turn if he were smart. Is Dooku smart? Yes. Does he use it every chance? No.



See what I mean?



Yes, because Anakin raised his lightsaber before Dooku expressed feeling to surge out lightning? Yeah, that doesn't makes sense. Also, watch the movie - where's Anakin's saber raised again? Nowhere? Yeah, that's where.



Where did AOTC prove this on the account of lightning? That Yoda blocked it without a lightsaber? Yoda absorbed, and reflected the Count's lightning. Saber form matters there?



Anakin didn't try to defend. Watch the movie. The script line itself doesn't make sense anyways. And stop calling it "advanced defensive maneuvers" - Yoda blocked it without a saber, Mace blocked it with Vaapad (which has NO connection to any defensive styles, and it actually draws from Anakin's form), and Obi-Wan blocked it by just raising his lightsaber, he didn't do anything fancy

The reason it was blocked was why? The lightning gets "absorbed" into the lightsaber. Does saber form affect power of the lightsaber? I think not.

In all honesty, you cannot sit there and say it was difficult nor advanced. All he did was lift his arm up. As well, are you telling me Anakin can't block or something?



It'll double in power. You manage to accomplish nothing. Mace defended against lightning from a more powerful foe two handed.



That's not what you read. Unless well, you can't read. That must be the problem.



Right. Except for the fact my evidence is more than just "Kenobi can do it so Anakin can too". What's your evidence again?



Firstly,what I did it's called a "recap" as in "recapitulation" - you do know what that means right?

Applies for all the "z0mg UR REPEATING URSELF!" crap you spewed.



If you're a doctor, I fear for the world. Maybe you need to see a doctor, and get a lobotomy.

Then why didn't he? Getting one good move on Anakin doesn't mean he's stronger.

Wrong. In this particular case Palpatine's testing Anakin to see if he's strong enough to become his apprentice and he and he doesn't actually tell Dooku what he's up to so Dooku thinks he's just going to fight him but the whole thing was a set up by the Emperor to test Anakin's strength and when Anakin's strong enough, which he proves to be by killing Dooku, then the Emperor's ready to convert him over to the Dark Side to become his new apprentice. - George Lucas

Originally posted by Xavius
Yeah, and Luke ended up on the ground slithering and defenseless because of two handed Lightning.

Because he never experienced lightning before. DO you really thin k Anakin, who had already experienced it, wouldn't try to learn how to block it?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku fought seriously against Ani before that. He realized if he didn't, he'd die



"No. Dooku had no need to fight seriously before the end of the fight because he was under the impression Sids would step in and help if anything went wrong. Dooku is a better duellist but Anakins raw power when he is angry in nearly unstoppable. This is why Dooku taunted Anakin instead of killing him quickly. He didnt realise Anakins true physical strength until it was to late. However at the beginning of the battle it would have been relatively simple for the Count to win."

Why would Sidious help Dooku? He wanted Anakin to become a Sith, and get rid of Dooku.

I don't expect you to fear me. I expect you to cut the cheap talk.




Lol, Or what?




Are you dumb? What, did you expect him to stand in TWO spots or something? Jesus christ.

Dooku uses one hand with his Lightsaber and some attacks from Anakins form and other forms, sometimes you use one hand. What, so because he uses one hand, he lacks accumulative skill? This is f*cking bullshit. I'm getting tired of you.





Yoda blocked Lightning with his HANDS. Remember what happened when Yoda tried to block it with his Lightsaber? Oh yeah! It flew out of his HANDS! Mace was struggling to hold his Lightsaber. down against the fury of Sidious' Lightning.





Now even more sadly, you're wrong. Vaapad requires a take from other forms. A defensive form, an offensive and a surrounding form. Hmm . . . I wonder what could possibly be that defensive form . . . Oh! Uh . . . SORESU? Yeah.





More pseudo linguistics from you. It's saddening.

You have . . . NO proof. Just an opinion as I do. So yes, you are indeed a hypocrite! What else do you expect me to say?





Why don't you STOP ignoring the fact that the two people - Anakin and Yoda, who had offensive Lightsaber styles, COULD NOT BLOCK LIGHTNING? EXPLAIN IT! And I don't care who's more powerful. Who the f*ck ended up missing limbs at the end of the fight? It wasn't Kenobi, It was Anakin, remember?

"zOmg!11 lolz!11 K3nob1 c4n d0 1t!11 s0 4n4k1n c4n automatically d0 1t 2!!!!!"

^ Shitty Logic and Logic you're using.




I have an argument. I don't get where you get this crap from. I have better proof than you. My explanations are logically correct.

And yours? They just completely lack rationality and logic altogether so you're the last person who should be asking any one for proof.




Stop repeating yourself, you damn moron! Is that all you have? F*ck. I keep hearing the same shit over and over again.

THEN WHY THE HELL COULDN'T ANAKIN BLOCK IT? WHY DID ANAKIN GO ACROSS A ROOM WHEN HE TRIED TO?!?!!?!?!

Jesus!!!!!!!!





What the shit? Of course he puts up his Lightsaber! At the point Dooku raises his hand, Anakin flings his Lightsaber upwards but it does nothing.



Oh . . . You SEE that they're different people now? Thank f*cking god.





And why the hell wouldn't it?




Never said they were, did I? You're the one who keeps on saying "Anakin is more powerful and faster, so he can automatically block Lightning because Kenobi, who is incoherently his insuperior, can do it."

^ Crap!



Of course he can! But this does not mean he's automatically going to block the Lightning.

I'm sure that matters. Let's ignore the skill factor, because Anakin is bigger. Such arrogance.

I'm sure Anakin was nice and strong, faster and more powerful than Kenobi when his limbless body rolled down a hill of rock and catched a bit of Lava. Kenobi won because of skill.





By the end of RotS, I saw Kenobi > Anakin.









That has nothing to do with skill, for christs sakes! The movie proved this! That's like saying a 200 LBS Muscle man with a Lightsaber would automatically defeat a 120 LBS guy with a Lightsaber just because the bigger guy is stronger. Your claims are complete shit and yes, I'll say it again . . . YOU'RE A DAMN HYPOCRITE!



I own the tape and the DVD. Kenobi raises his Saber in just enough time to catch the Lightning.



Timing and Area. Lightning is fast and it has several streams of bolts. When that's coming towards you extremely fast, putting your Lightsaber up a certain way matters. If Kenobi had put it anywhere different, It could have hit him. He knew where Dooku was aiming and required the skill to block it.



Form V was developed out of Form III as an offensive Lightsaber Form. You tell me why Anakin wasn't able to block it if he had such skill and it was so easy. Oh, okay. Anakin can block Blaster bolts. Let me guess . . . By your Logic, this means he can block Lightning, right?

And likewise, even if he does block it, which I doubt: Dooku just adds another hand and strains himself, applying more power, more torrents of Lightning and Anakin's Lightsaber goes buh bye!






All you do is perpetually insult me because you know you're getting nowhere. Degrading me won't help your argument. You haven't shown me anything solid expect for your illogical opinion, so feck off.






Dooku is arrogant. Why do you think he died? Do you seriously think he needed two handed Lightning with a Jedi Knight and a Padawan whom both he tooled easily? No! It would have been an overkill.

It isn't ludacris! It happened to Yoda! Mace was struggling because Sidious was applying enormous power to his Lightning.

Two hands equals more Lightning. Get that THROUGH YOUR HEAD.




What do you except? You've practiced hypocrisy throughout your entire last post. It's sickening.






He gets blasted at the last second he throws his Lightsaber up. It's in the movie. What is wrong with you?





Oh okay. What happened to Yoda when he tried to block it with his Lightsaber in RotS? Oh . . . IT GOT BLASTED FROM HIS HANDS, BUD!

And absorbing and deflecting with you hands is a whole other story from blocking it with a Saber.





I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Yoda couldn't block it with a Saber. When he tried, he failed. Vaapad draws directly from JUYO, moron. Juyo happens to contain alot of defensive maneuvers. Hmm . . . I guess Mace has no defense at all. I wonder why he uses that defensive in RotS and when he's deflecting blaster bolts from a professional bounty hunter in AotC . . . Hmm . . . Kenobi didn't need to do anything fancy! He was proficient in his form!



The Lightsaber does not absorb Lightning. You get dumber by the second. When Mace blocked it, it went back into Sidious' face. When Kenobi blocked it, it didn't just dissapear into his Lightsaber. It wraps around it and dissipates. The Lightsaber doesn't eat the Lightning. Jesus.



Could he? No. I didn't see him block. Maybe he couldn't.

Okay, All Mace did was throw his arm down and forward when he fought Sidious. All Dooku did was use ONE HAND to fight everyone and all he did was move his arm forward and around sideways.

^ That's what you sound like.





Mace is also alot more powerful and experienced than Anakin and even he was having major troubles blocking it.





Nope, I'm pretty sure you're the problem.





No sorry, I think that is your only evidence.

My evidence is that Lightsaber styles do matter when blocking things such as Lightning.





To me, that's just a fancy word and an excuse to cover up for your pathetic repeatitive behaviour.




As I can see, you've already had a lobotomy . . .

I'm almost sure Tyranus could take this. Luke would be in the fight for a while but Tyranus wouldn't be held back like he was in ROTS, Anakin last longer than his son but eventually get an elegant Makashi stab through his belly. . .

I'll get to the rest of your sad rebuttal later. For now:



Define "cheap talk", because I see you responding and using your own.




Funny - this is one thing I have time to address out of your absurd arguments:



Insulting.



Btw, read the article on Lightsaber forms? Yes, Vaapad is an extension of Juyo. However, it combines from Form V. Did I ever say it was Form V's extension? No, it draws from Form V however. Difference, learn it.

Oh, and insult.



Insult.



Point out these "pseudo linguistics" if you will. I'll see if you can name them in that quote you said it for. If you're referring to PMS (the only word that a 8 year old wouldn't understand) then it's just sad, because every woman should know of that. You're sad attempts at discrediting fail because you just make the claim, and don't point jack sh*t out.



Not so much an insult, but insulting. You claim to have more proof (when you don't) than me. Then you say "all we have is opinion. 'Cept mine is higher 'cuz I'm the smug bastard known as 'Xavius'!". "You have . . . NO proof. Just an opinion as I do." - Xavius.

You don't have "better" or "more" proof than me, Xavius. Or else all you'd have to do is post one paragraph of solid facts. You can't/don't/haven't.

You constantly throw terms around like you're flinging monkey sh*t, make stuff up that isn't true, reword my arguments in your statements so they seem weaker, and overall you're just a joke.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
I'll get to the rest of your sad rebuttal later. For now:



Define "cheap talk", because I see you responding and using your own.




Funny - this is one thing I have time to address out of your absurd arguments:



Insulting.



Btw, read the article on Lightsaber forms? Yes, Vaapad is an extension of Juyo. However, it combines from Form V. Did I ever say it was Form V's extension? No, it draws from Form V however. Difference, learn it.

Oh, and insult.



Insult.



Point out these "pseudo linguistics" if you will. I'll see if you can name them in that quote you said it for. If you're referring to PMS (the only word that a 8 year old wouldn't understand) then it's just sad, because every woman should know of that. You're sad attempts at discrediting fail because you just make the claim, and don't point jack sh*t out.



Not so much an insult, but insulting. You claim to have more proof (when you don't) than me. Then you say "all we have is opinion. 'Cept mine is higher 'cuz I'm the smug bastard known as 'Xavius'!". "You have . . . NO proof. Just an opinion as I do." - Xavius.

You don't have "better" or "more" proof than me, Xavius. Or else all you'd have to do is post one paragraph of solid facts. You can't/don't/haven't.

You constantly throw terms around like you're flinging monkey sh*t, make stuff up that isn't true, reword my arguments in your statements so they seem weaker, and overall you're just a joke. way to go hot mama motoko sama

I'LL GET TO THE REST OF YOUR SAD REBUTTAL LATER


What? It's my thread I should have a say. If you have anything to say, say it n00b.

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
I'LL GET TO THE REST OF YOUR SAD REBUTTAL LATER


What? It's my thread I should have a say. If you have anything to say, say it n00b.

Who the f*ck are you talking to? And what are you talking about.

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
way to go hot mama motoko sama

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Who the f*ck are you talking to? And what are you talking about.

You obviously had a broblem with my argument. No? If not were cool. . .

Dooku aka Tyrannus wins. Both of them have shown no eptitude at blocking Force Lightnening, and they both HAVE shown INEPTITUDE.

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
You obviously had a broblem with my argument. No? If not were cool. . .

What you quoted was referring to the rest of Xavius' argument, hence why I said "for now". I don't have a problem with your argument, I'm only focused on Force lightning.

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
way to go hot mama motoko sama

*gasp* he's back...

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
*gasp* he's back... MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHANO YOU WILL BE

...Okay? I read it the first time, there's no need to repeat it again, elmtirk

And Xavius, if you'd like we can "agree to disagree" - as much as I hate to say it (well seems I'm fond of it actually) - you are giving me nothing, and not accepting a thing. Likewise, I'm not accepting much you throw out anyways. Mainly this is because I'm tired of repeating myself and arguing in circles with you, when you're not going anywhere. Especially considering you and I are the only ones arguing about Force lightning of all things.

Don't mind me while I just step on ahead with this.




Cheap talk is the crap you spew out of your mouth. Defintion cleared.








It would be nice if you could dig up the quote that I was replying to with that Lobotomy comment?


That's what I thought.






Vaapad is more Juyo than it is Shien. That's a given.

Learn that Juyo has Soresu in it.



Thanks, tips.






Want me to point out the Pseudo linguistics?

Here's more:



^ More useless crap that has nothing to do with this argument. Drop the semantics, you bloody baby.




What the hell are YOU talking about?

You're arguments are "Kenobi can block lightning, so Anakin automatically can. Anakin is stronger than Kenobi. Lightsabers eat Lightning. Two hands do not make Lightning more powerful."

^ All that shit is wrong and you dare even attempt to degrade my arguments? Ha . . . Ha . . . Ha.





The things I've been coming out with are alot more logically stable than what you've been saying. You've basically coming out with crap, such as Lightsaber forms don't matter when it comes to blocking.

What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously?



I'm the joke? All that shit you just previously posted had NOTHING to do with our argument. Seems as if you're dancing around the point.

Next time, post something relevant.

Because all of this shit . . . Is MOOT!

It's all talk. It has nothing to do with our debate. This is f*cking ridiculous.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
...Okay? I read it the first time, there's no need to repeat it again, elmtirk

And Xavius, if you'd like we can "agree to disagree" - as much as I hate to say it (well seems I'm fond of it actually) - you are giving me nothing, and not accepting a thing. Likewise, I'm not accepting much you throw out anyways. Mainly this is because I'm tired of repeating myself and arguing in circles with you, when you're not going anywhere. Especially considering you and I are the only ones arguing about Force lightning of all things.

Basically I feel the same way. I feel your arguments lacked Logical grounding and any sort of rationality that is coherent with the Star Wars Universe. I found you said the same shit over and over again without paying attention to most of my refutes but just kind of drifting off task and ranting.


Basically, we just b*tched about each other and got that out. I say we agree to disagree, because we could go on forever.

Nice work IKC.

I've reported you for harassing me. It's ridiculous now.

He's not IKC people

I just want to see where this statement came from? I've read the article by David West Reynolds, and I didn't come across any mention of Form III other than the fact it talks about drawing from parts of Form V, and Form IV (Ataru).

Has nothing to do with continuing.

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
He's not IKC people

As much is obvious.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
I just want to see where this statement came from? I've read the article by David West Reynolds, and I didn't come across any mention of Form III other than the fact it talks about drawing from parts of Form V, and Form IV (Ataru).

Has nothing to do with continuing.



As much is obvious.

It draws from all seven forms a little bit.

Originally posted by Xavius
It draws from all seven forms a little bit.

Said where exactly?

I wish I could remember that damned article now . . . It pisses me off, but It was posted in a blog on Starwars.com and it had canonical information about all seven Lightsaber forms.

I wish I could get ahold of that again. It was quite useful.

Well form 5 draws from form 3.

Originally posted by Count Kent
Well form 5 draws from form 3.

Form V is the aggresive version of Form III.

Originally posted by Xavius
I wish I could remember that damned article now . . . It pisses me off, but It was posted in a blog on Starwars.com and it had canonical information about all seven Lightsaber forms.

I wish I could get ahold of that again. It was quite useful.

I think you are talking about Niman.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Oh man, fear Xavius. He's not here to impress, he's here to embarrass himself.



First off, not a "dude". So, don't address me as such.



"Dude", did you not see AOTC? How Kenobi just raised his saber up with one hand? Seriously, tell me how STANDING in ONE SPOT and raising your saber with ONE HAND is a reflection of your saber style.



As much is obvious, but tell me where it's even implied his form had anything to do with it when we've seen lightning being blocked by Yoda and Mace?



Sadly Vaapad does not require Soresu mastery. It is not a defensive form. Not to mention Vaapad even draws from Form V.



Do you read what you type? Yeah, I'd submit that's quite a bit stupider. As well, you've yet to prove anything. All you're saying is "z0mg ridiculus!" and "hehehe hypocriet!!!!". You throw sh*t around (literally), act like you have Premenstrual Syndrome, and don't accomplish anything.



Ignoring the essence of skill? Lol. Anakin is more skilled than Kenobi, Anakin is stronger than Kenobi. Anakin is more agile than Kenobi. Kenobi effortlessly blocked Dooku's lightning with one hand. Tell me, please, what in God's name kind of skill did Kenobi show when he did that? You're spewing around that his saber style is defensive, therefore that's the reason he can block lightning, but no - ignore the fact Mace can, and come up with "z0mg he's experienced so he c4n" typical bullsh*t. Really now.



Show me where the prerequisites for blocking lightning are, and you'll have an argument.



Lol, maneuver now? All he did was RAISE his lightsaber, is that really a maneuver? Watch the AOTC scene and you'll see just how facilely Obi-Wan defends.



I never said he can resist it because of that. I said he'll have a better grip than Kenobi. As well, AOTC Anakin was:

1.) Rushing in (and sorry, watch the AOTC movie - not the script - Anakin never puts his lightsaber up in defense, if anything it's only describing the fact he rushed in).
2.) Far less experienced.
3.) Far less powerful.

So, you comparing AOTC Anakin to ROTS Anakin is pretty asinine seeing as how they are completely different.



I'm sure raising your lightsaber requires great skill.



No, is Mace the same person as Obi-Wan? No.



Can Anakin raise his lightsaber? Yes.



He's built stronger than Obi-Wan is. So, I'm not sure where your "size matters" goes here when the advantage goes to Anakin.



Do you know? No. For all I know they could be the same speed. If anything Anakin > Kenobi in this aspect too. Add to the statement: these are all irrelevant.



Well, as long as you continue to post bullsh*t - I'm going to have to continuously reply. Your entire point is they're not the same person - well no sh*t. However, Anakin possessing more skill, more agility, more raw power, more strength is the reason why I'm even arguing.

Answer me this: Do you own AOTC? If you answered "YES" to this question, put it on and watch Obi-Wan raise his lightsaber (and that's ALL he does) and the lightning goes straight to Kenobi's saber. He doesn't even move! Seriously explain to me:

a.) How that's a maneuver.
b.) How that would require a huge amount of skill.

And, you're going to say "saber styles!!". Do saber styles change the power of your lightsaber? No. Anakin can block blaster bolts, except he turns them into offensive moves. Form V was developed by Form III masters. So he can't hold up his saber when there is an amount of lightning heading towards him?



You're right atm I don't have access to comics or anything of the like, nor would I want to get them anyways. Right now I have simple facts, and common sense. You have...neither. All you have is lame tactics like responding entirely as saying "H1PP0CRIT!!///1", and "REP33TER", and "z0mg SAB3r 5TY135!!/! 1 h4v3 PM5!!".

Have you shown me anything solid?



Good, sound logic. The thing is - the lightsaber is an inanimate object. Can I redirect you to Mace and Sidious' fight? What happened btw? Mace was able to block Sidious' constant two handed lightning. He was struggling to hold it down no doubt, but Sidious is more powerful than Dooku anyways. To think that it's just going to fly because he adds another hand is ludacris. Why? Because if that were true, Dooku would use it at every turn if he were smart. Is Dooku smart? Yes. Does he use it every chance? No.



See what I mean?



Yes, because Anakin raised his lightsaber before Dooku expressed feeling to surge out lightning? Yeah, that doesn't makes sense. Also, watch the movie - where's Anakin's saber raised again? Nowhere? Yeah, that's where.



Where did AOTC prove this on the account of lightning? That Yoda blocked it without a lightsaber? Yoda absorbed, and reflected the Count's lightning. Saber form matters there?



Anakin didn't try to defend. Watch the movie. The script line itself doesn't make sense anyways. And stop calling it "advanced defensive maneuvers" - Yoda blocked it without a saber, Mace blocked it with Vaapad (which has NO connection to any defensive styles, and it actually draws from Anakin's form), and Obi-Wan blocked it by just raising his lightsaber, he didn't do anything fancy

The reason it was blocked was why? The lightning gets "absorbed" into the lightsaber. Does saber form affect power of the lightsaber? I think not.

In all honesty, you cannot sit there and say it was difficult nor advanced. All he did was lift his arm up. As well, are you telling me Anakin can't block or something?



It'll double in power. You manage to accomplish nothing. Mace defended against lightning from a more powerful foe two handed.



That's not what you read. Unless well, you can't read. That must be the problem.



Right. Except for the fact my evidence is more than just "Kenobi can do it so Anakin can too". What's your evidence again?



Firstly,what I did it's called a "recap" as in "recapitulation" - you do know what that means right?

Applies for all the "z0mg UR REPEATING URSELF!" crap you spewed.



If you're a doctor, I fear for the world. Maybe you need to see a doctor, and get a lobotomy.

That cracks me up.

Dr. Xavius = ownt.

Originally posted by Escape81
That cracks me up.

Dr. Xavius = ownt.

LOL

Originally posted by Escape81
That cracks me up.

Dr. Xavius = ownt.
My reply to all that took about two posts. Couldn't all fit it into one.

Yes, but some of your points were ridiculous.

1. The fighting form is what enabled Kenobi to halt Dooku's Force lightning? It's completely ridiculous. Dooku launched a volley of Force lightning and it was simply negated by Kenobi's lightsaber, which he held up - one handed.

2. She's right, you know. Mace's Vaapad is a proven aggressive form of lightsaber combat, and yet Mace was able to fend off Sidious's lightning at point blank range, and Sidious > Dooku in the Force.

3. Anakin was nailed by lightning because he charged in with his saber in his hand. He made no attempt to block the lightning, but charged in like a reek.

Anakin can block Force lightning.

The script, movie, and commentary firmly support that Anakin > Dooku in sheer lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat.

Anakin is grotesquely powerful in the Force, and the only two people whom I believe could defeat Anakin in combat as of RotS would be Yoda and Palpatine.

Can he stop Force lightning with his bare hands? Not likely. But, he is quicker than Dooku, and stronger as well, and therefore should have no problem repulsing Dooku's Force lightning - should he use his head.

Dooku's Force powers and control would give him an edge in individual combat, but I would say that Anakin and Luke could best the Sith Lord.

1) One handed means you don't use a form? Okay, so . . . Dooku doesn't use a form by your logic, then?

2) Mace was struggling to keep the Lightning down, notice this. And Vaapad utilizes alot of defense as well, seeing as the form surrounds in everything including defense.

3) I wonder why no attempt was made. Hmm . . .


Prove it, Escape.

Originally posted by Escape81
The script, movie, and commentary firmly support that Anakin > Dooku in sheer lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat.

Who said different? I said Dooku could stomp Anakin in terms of Force at that point. And the tables could turn if they fought again.

It's not like:
Anakin > Dooku
Anakin > Dooku
Anakin > Dooku

Everytime they Lightsaber duel.



You forgot Kenobi, whom tore off three of his limbs ans showed to be on par when it comes to force power.



It doesn't matter if he's quicker. He may lack the skill to block it.



Now it's obvious Dooku could last long enough to kill Luke. (He fended off Kenobi and Anakin on the Invisible Hand.)

All he'd have to do is basically kill Luke and then maybe just begin to Force choke Anakin and then while choking him, blast him with Lightning or something. Dooku has been seen to do movements like that. Why not do it against Anakin?

Originally posted by Xavius
3) I wonder why no attempt was made. Hmm . . .

Really? Isn't it obvious? He was rushing in, he literally ran in and the script says as much as "at the last moment". So, if someone is rushing me with a katana, and I pull a gun out at the last moment and fire a shot off - what makes you think he'd have a chance to dodge it?

Anakin was like five feet away before Dooku fired and was running. And AOTC Anakin is nothing in comparison to ROTS Anakin.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Really? Isn't it obvious? He was rushing in, he literally ran in and the script says as much as "at the last moment". So, if someone is rushing me with a katana, and I pull a gun out at the last moment and fire a shot off - what makes you think he'd have a chance to dodge it?

Anakin was like five feet away before Dooku fired and was running. And AOTC Anakin is nothing in comparison to ROTS Anakin.

If he could not block it before, what makes you think he attained the skill to block it again?

Sure, he gained incredible amounts of power and speed AND trained in his form but this is not evidence that he can block Lightning. He's still a Jedi Knight. Even though he does have the potential to be extremely powerful, he's still a Knight. That is Kenobi was able to outduel him and they were on par when it came to the force.

Dooku raised his hand. Anakin must've been really f*cking dumb to miss that one.

Doesn't Lucas say that only Yoda, Mace and Pre-Suit Vader could compete with Palpatine ?

And you think that Kenobi padded his brave padawan to head after their embarrassing performance with Dooku in AOTC?


Im sure that they had several dozen hours of practise after that gig to correct Anakins major flaws....

Anakin was surely scolded by Obi1 offscreen.

Originally posted by Xavius
If he could not block it before, what makes you think he attained the skill to block it again?

Because you're using a completely different situation. He couldn't block it because he wasn't:

a.) Prepared.
b.) Dooku did it last second.
c.) What you stated below (incredible amounts of speed, power, training).

What "skill"? This skill? The one where Obi-Wan just puts up his lightsaber? Watch it. Seriously, does that look like a skill? It's the equivalent of blocking blaster bolts. Just put your saber up. Of course, you have to be powerful to do this. I doubt Ashla would be able to accomplish such, however, Anakin is powerful as we know.



And? So, you have to be a Jedi Master to block Force lightning? Now that's absurd. And seriously, Anakin is a better lightsaber duelist than Kenobi. Kenobi prolonged the fight until the point that Anakin couldn't win. I.e. Terrain advantage. On even ground, Anakin would've won even in his state of mind.

In fact, when Anakin is thinking clearly - I believe in RODV, isn't it stated he's the best duelist of the Order?



He was five feet away from Dooku when he did that. He was charging, he wasn't standing there like Obi-Wan. Along with the fact he's far less inexperienced.

so? knowing anakin and dooku, the same thing will happen. Dooku jumps backward, anakin rushes at him and dooku uses lightning and anakin, who was charging to close ground, will be blown away and lay on the ground knowcked out for half a minute, more than enough time for dooku to WTFpwn luke.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
so? knowing anakin and dooku, the same thing will happen. Dooku jumps backward, anakin rushes at him and dooku uses lightning and anakin, who was charging to close ground, will be blown away and lay on the ground knowcked out for half a minute, more than enough time for dooku to WTFpwn luke.

Yeah, really. Did you see Dooku do that in ROTS? No.

And, as always I'll say because AOTC Anakin has the same amount of power, pain threshold, and experience as he does in ROTS, right? Quit bullsh*tting.

AOTC Anakin is not on the same level as ROTS Anakin. And who is to say Anakin won't chop Dooku's hands off a la their encounter on the Invisible Hand?

And half a minute? Yeah, considering he was able to fully recover in that minute in AOTC, and had enough strength to leap to his master's rescue, and then duel wih Dooku, I doubt he'll sit there aimlessly.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Yeah, really. Did you see Dooku do that in ROTS? No.

And, as always I'll say because AOTC Anakin has the same amount of power, pain threshold, and experience as he does in ROTS, right? Quit bullsh*tting.

AOTC Anakin is not on the same level as ROTS Anakin. And who is to say Anakin won't chop Dooku's hands off a la their encounter on the Invisible Hand?

And half a minute? Yeah, considering he was able to fully recover in that minute in AOTC, and had enough strength to leap to his master's rescue, and then duel wih Dooku, I doubt he'll sit there aimlessly.

WTF is with all the n00bs who think Anakin is better than Tyranus?

quote:
In fact, when Anakin is thinking clearly - I believe in RODV, isn't it stated he's the best duelist of the Order?

No he's not Mace or Yoda would pwn him silly

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
quote:
In fact, when Anakin is thinking clearly - I believe in RODV, isn't it stated he's the best duelist of the Order?

No he's not Mace or Yoda would pwn him silly

If they can, Tyranus would do too(except to a much more darker degree). Put 2 & 2 together Skywalker fanboys. . .

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
WTF is with all the n00bs who think Anakin is better than Tyranus?

n00b? Yeah. Considering you really contribute jack to debates.

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
quote:
In fact, when Anakin is thinking clearly - I believe in RODV, isn't it stated he's the best duelist of the Order?

No he's not Mace or Yoda would pwn him silly

Did I say he was? I asked a question for anyone who has RODV. Learn how to quote.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
n00b? Yeah. Considering you really contribute jack to debates.



Did I say he was? I asked a question for anyone who has RODV. Learn how to quote.

Want a contribution? Fine. Dooku has EIGHTY YEARS of training under his belt. Please don't say that his age is a problem, in the SW universe that means absolutely nothing. Dooku also has mastery over the force and form 2 makashi. Anakin has only TWENTY-FOUR years of training. To add to that he has a long list of emotional problems. In ROTS Dooku was told to incapacitate Kenobi and once done to tempt the now vulnerable Skywalker to the dark side of the force. Dooku was supposed to take it easy and eventually lose. Luke is Luke. He will get tossed in the first few minutes. Face the "Chosen One" isn't that good.
Suck on that. . .

One thing is pretty funny. I'm supposedly addressed as a "Skywalker fanboy", yet you're the one who's usernames are practically dedicated to Dooku, lol.

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Want a contribution?

Yeah.



Why would I think that? I was just defending Dooku on his age in the "Yoda and Dooku vs Sidious and Mace" thread.



Okay.



Remind me how many years Kun had in comparison to Vodo, 600 year old Jedi Master? To Odan? Thousand year old Jedi Master. Or Maul to Qui-Gon Jinn?



Apparently the ROTS novelization points out the fact that it started out out that way, however, during the course of their encounter Dooku realizes he cannot control Anakin and proceeds to give it his all.

Razielim, I believe it was, made a good point in a different thread:

And why would Sidious want Anakin over Dooku if Dooku was so superior? Potential is great, sure, but the attack on the Jedi Temple and the Jedi Purge was going to happen in a few days.



Try first few seconds.



I don't even like Anakin. I don't like Dooku either. In fact, I hate movie characters. So my opinion isn't "blinded" by favoritism. The "Chosen One" is good however.



Suck on what? Who do you think you are now? Degeneration-X?

I'm not basing my argument off of the novel I'm going by what the script by GL says. Sidious belived Anakin to be more powerful. All Anakin ever had was potential not real power.

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
I'm not basing my argument off of the novel I'm going by what the script by GL says.

Point out what it says. Where in the script does it say Dooku > Anakin?

The movie as well proves my argument. Look at Dooku and Palpatine right before he dies.

Dooku: How you gonna play me like that?

Palpatine: Sith happens. . .

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
The movie as well proves my argument. Look at Dooku and Palpatine right before he dies.

Dooku: How you gonna play me like that?

Palpatine: Sith happens. . .

Lol.

A) Bullshit. He had five feet of space and was looking directly at Dooku when Dooku lifted his hand up.

B) Sorry, but Anakin wasn't THAT close at that point.

C) Yeah, he sucked. Pretty much.



You make it sound like it's easy to block Blaster Bolts. Tell that to the Jedi Council members and the thousands of other Jedi who got f*ckin' rocked by Clone Troopers.

And blocking Lightning is difficult. It moves fast, it's wild and it has many strands of Lightning.

quote:
Sure, he gained incredible amounts of power and speed AND trained in his form but this is not evidence that he can block Lightning. He's still a Jedi Knight. Even though he does have the potential to be extremely powerful, he's still a Knight. That is Kenobi was able to outduel him and they were on par when it came to the force.





That's a load. Kenobi had Anakin on par during their Mustafar duel. They were on par. The force push, their dueling altogether. Anakin had accomplished the power of a Master, but Kenobi proved to be smarter and on par when it came to dueling skill.

No, but you have to have significant skill in defending with your Lightsaber. Anakin was an offensive duelist if I've ever seen one.

Anakin was the greatest duelist in the Order, but he got put down by his arrogance and rushing . . . Similar to him running towards Dooku in AotC? What makes you think he wouldn't rush again, arrogantly and then just get pwned by Lightning? He showed us he had that blinding arrogance in RotS, so . . .

As much power and speed as he had, he didn't know what the f*ck to do with it at that point.



No, but it is stated that Yoda and Mace are the best duelists. If Anakin couldn't defeat Kenobi, what makes you think he's the best?







He was a dork. And five feet is still quite a ways.

Luke now is about the level of post AOTC but Pre ROTs anakin, so he could at least hold dooku long enough for anakin to bust a move on dooks, and get pissed off 'cause he sucks so bad.

Originally posted by Xavius
A) Bullshit. He had five feet of space and was looking directly at Dooku when Dooku lifted his hand up.

He was in the middle of charging. Again I say, if someone fires a gun at the last moment what chance do I have to dodge it?



Sadly, as even the script says he did it at the last moment. Implying another second (not even) and Anakin would've met Dooku head on. Considering he was running.



Irrelevant.



I saw Anakin block a multitude of blaster bolts. I saw a padawan Kenobi who uses Ataru block blaster bolts. You make it sound as if it's supremely hard. While it may be for others, Anakin has no trouble doing such.



What was that again? Order 66? The - ya' know - surprise attack on the Jedi.

Hell, didn't Zett Jukassa manage to block a few shots?



Many strands that go directly to one place. The target. Did you see Dooku's lightning swerve off in a thousand directions?



...? Posted twice



Yeah, if that's a "load" - what is the whole bit about Anakin being a Knight? Lol, being a Knight someone means you can't block lightning? You didn't address that point.



Is that why Anakin gets the following attacks on a defensive lightsaber practitioner:

1.) Kicks him square in the chest.
2.) Dragon Sleeper.
3.) Dropkick.
4.) Another kick.
5.) Knocks Kenobi around.
6.) Yet another kick dead in the face.

Actually, Anakin > Kenobi in lightsaber abilities. As much is obvious. Kenobi only did one thing: prolong the fight until the point that he got the terrain advantage (similar to the Sidious/Yoda fight). If it was even ground, Anakin would've killed Obi-Wan.



Well, considering Form V was created by Form III masters, and considering it's stated to have defensive moves, except turn them into offensive moves, I'd say he knows defense. For example, instead of just blocking blaster bolts, Form V users redirect them.

As I said Anakin has quite a bit of defending in his skill.



What makes you think Dooku won't just get pwned ROTS-style? Anakin was under more emotional stress than before during his duel with Kenobi. Far more I'd say.

Perhaps though, you didn't catch "This time we do it together..." says Obi-Wan, Anakin comes back with "I was about to say that".

Real arrogant there, huh? And was he under as much emotional stress? Nope. Why would he be against Dooku now?



Huh? He utilized it well against Dooku I'd say.



Did I say he was? Point out to me where I said "Lol Anakin > all in lightsaber combat". I asked a question for anyone who has RODV, because that's what I think it says in there. I never gave any definites.

On top of that, what makes me think that is because he wasn't thinking clearly in his fight against Kenobi.



Dork? ...okay? In one step he'd be meeting Dooku.

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
Luke now is about the level of post AOTC but Pre ROTs anakin, so he could at least hold dooku long enough for anakin to bust a move on dooks, and get pissed off 'cause he sucks so bad.

Post AOTC Anakin? Lol. Luke would've been killed by Dooku quicker than Anakin got his arm chopped off.

What the hell are you talking about? Lightning is a different story than a gun. Then I guess Kenobi blocking the Lightning was logical fallacy. Wasn't he few feet away when he blocked it?



He had his Lightsaber in his hand. He could have attempted to raise it within that time frame. He was blinded by arrogance . . . Y'know . . . Kind of like he was when Kenobi owned him.



Ironically, so is your reply.




Form III = Defensive form, blocking blaster bolts and such.

Form V (Anakin uses Form V) = Offensive form of Soresu, blocking blaster bolts and such.

And Ataru is proficient at blocking bolts as well. Remember? Yoda did it in RotS?

Blocking Blaster bolts is NOT easy. Blaster bolts aren't very big and either is the Lightsaber. How the hell can you say blocking bolts are easy?

It's getting completely out of hand now. Claiming Lightning is one thing, but Blaster bolts now? No, this is pathetic.




Alot of the suspected it. And . . . Uh . . . Ki Adi Mundi. Y'know . . . Council Member, who blocked two or three shots and got f*cked up. Same with Jett. And let me guess . . . Out of all the thousands of Force Sensitives, Ki Adi and Jett were the only ones to have time to realize the betrayal, right?








No, but it did strand certainly in quite the radius. The strands didn't just slap together.





No, but he still lacks skill. Knights aren't Uber powerful Jedi. Anakin was an exception but that doesn't prove he can block Lightning.







Prove it. Seeing as Anakin lost horribly and Kenobi managed to dance on par with him for several minutes, throw some proof my way.

A bunch of Kicks, okay. Kenobi managed to knock him down a few times as well. And when it came Saber to saber, the two were on par. When Anakin flew into the air, he should have had the Lightsaber skill to hack Kenobi (BTW, when he jumped, they were parallel in grounding) and Kenobi still struck him down.




Not enough. Djem So/Shein is the OFFENSIVE version of the DEFENSIVE Soresu. Kenobi was able to redirect Bolts as well, BTW.




And Kenobi wasn't?!? A horrid excuse. Anakin didn't care. He was yearning for power and did not value Kenobi as a brother anymore. Kenobi did. He apparently loved Anakin and would have had a whole ton more emotional trouble than Anakin.

Dooku was under Palpatines watch and most likely thought the fight would be simple as in AotC. Dooku attempted to purely duel Anakin instead of using the Force on him. Why do you think he isolated Kenobi and virtually challenged Anakin, telling him he has a vista of Darkness within him? In the end, Anakin had performed an unorthodox maneuver by throwing his forearms over Dookus, turning his wrists and cutting his hands right off. Dooku wasn't expecting it and he was outdueled. When Anakin got kicked into a wall and Dooku decided to drop Kenobi after choking him and taking upon Anakin by using the Force, Anakin would have lost.




I've explained this in the last post.




Yeah, in Lightsaber to Lightsaber. Anakin was physically more fit and in the end proved that by utilizing his much stronger arms to push Dooku's arms down. He was quicker and younger as well and he was fairly powerful at that point.




Ah, I thought you were using sarcasm in your post. Nevermind then.




Oh my god. Calm down. It wasn't one step, he was FIVE FEET away. Maybe more. Even so, if Dooku didn't shoot the Lightning at that point, Dooku probably would have cut off his arm earlier.





Exactly. Luke was more like early AotC Anakin, AT A MAXIMUM.

Originally posted by Xavius
What the hell are you talking about? Lightning is a different story than a gun. Then I guess Kenobi blocking the Lightning was logical fallacy. Wasn't he few feet away when he blocked it?

Lightning is a different story than a gun? The point of the story was: he didn't have a chance to block it, neither would I.

And, also how is fallacious? He was further away than Anakin, or at the least wasn't running into Dooku.



What time frame? One more second and literally his lightsaber would've met Count Dooku's.

Seriously though "owned"? Owned - in the context your using - is the equivalent to "beat the piss out of" I'd say. This, sadly, did not happen as the fight lasts seven minutes cut (as in only consisting of scenes of their fight).



...?



When did I say it was easy for everyone? I didn't. I said "for others it may be, but for Anakin it is not". So, you're twisting my words around.

And btw, didn't Zett friggin' Jukassa do it?



What the hell are you talking about? We've seen Anakin block blaster bolts proficiently, and with apparent ease. How is that pathetic on my part? Because I'm using what I've seen happen? You have a skewed perception of logic then.



Point being? He was overwhelmed. Is Dooku firing lightning from six different hands? No.

Oh, and tell me - who else wasn't surprised by the attack? "A lot"? Like whom exactly?



So he did block blaster bolts? LOL. He's like freakin' ten years old!



Do you know how many of the Jedi blocked blaster bolts? No? Okay then.

Aayla sure as hell didn't realize it in time.



Where'd all that lightning go though? Straight to Kenobi's saber? Straight to Mace's saber? Straight to Yoda's hand? Yeah.



And? You're the one that brought up the fact he's still a Knight. Implying that you have to be a master to do such.



Did you watch the movie? And Anakin didn't lose "horribly". He wasn't outclassed by a huge margin, which is what you keep implying. If that were the case, it wouldn't have lasted seven minutes, and Anakin wouldn't have got at least seven melee hits on Kenobi.



Here's where I'm going to say: tell me which parts and what he did? Because he tripped Anakin once, and that was the only time he had Anakin down. Besides their Force push which cancels each other out anyways, and is irrelevant to lightsaber dueling.



What? Anakin was in the air, Kenobi was firmly on the ground. How were they even when Anakin didn't even have any grounding?



And...? It turns defensive moves into offensive moves. It's defensive as well in that aspect. And Kenobi redirecting blaster bolts is somehow relevant? I'm just saying what Form V does.



Relevancy of your response? I was putting it into context for Anakin vs. Dooku. I was referencing Kenobi vs. Anakin because he was in a far less stable state than he was against Dooku, hence him making less mistakes versus Dooku. Did you not read what I was replying to?



And the entire point of this was? Dooku went all out after he realized he couldn't control Anakin. ROTS novelization apparently states as much. Dooku was simply overwhelmed by Anakin's power, and lost. Simple.



Again - huh? I seem to remember Anakin getting up, and kicking Dooku over the railing. Which Force move would he be using?



Doesn't Sidious even acknowledge Anakin as more powerful? Anyways, not sure what this point has to do with anything, but whatever.



What do you mean it wasn't one step? It would've been a second or even less. He ran in from their position ("I'm taking him now" to getting blasted in two seconds exactly. The gap to close Dooku was less than that. It would've been a second or less before their sabers would've clashed.

How was he further away than Anakin? And yeah, he was running. He stopped to block the Lightning.





Both Anakin and Kenobi get ruined in AotC.

And no, If he was five feet away, it would have took two seconds. If not three. Anakin could have thrown his Lightsaber up in an attempt, at least. Dooku raised his hand. What did Anakin THINK he was doing when he raised his hand? Praising Allah?



Nevermind . . .





You:



It's damn hard to block Blaster Bolts. It takes skill.

"LOL! DIDN'T ZETT FRIGGIN' JUKASSA LAST LESS THAN TEN SECONDS DOING IT?"




Holy shit . . . Anakins form is mean't to deflect Blaster Bolts, for christs SAKE! He was also an exceptional Jedi. Jedi Masters who had the same Form fell to their feet when trying to fend off Clone Bolts. Anakin was good at it because he's good with a Lightsaber. Hello?!




Anakin, Kenobi and Mace and the Jedi who lived on Geonosis were able to block Blaster Bolts and lived and they weren't even Council Members. Well . . . Two hundred of them died, but, y'know, that doesn't prove that Blaster Bolts aren't easy to dodge.

And for the Last time, Lightning is nothing similar to a blaster bolt.




He died within a matter of seconds, Motoko. Blaster bolts aren't easy to dodge.



Do you know how many were not surprised by the attack? No?

Okay then.



That's one person.




Straight to Mace's saber and then to Sidious' face. And when Sidious gave mace the final blast, the Lightning wrapped around his body. Same with Anakin when he was struck by Dooku. Yoda was absorbing it, that is why it went to his hand. Notice before Yoda get's hit by Lightning in the beginning how all the strands are seperated?





Here's what you miss: I didn't imply, YOU assumed. I said Anakin most likely lacks the skill. Lightning is not easy to block. Mace proved this and so did Yoda. If someone applies two hands (More strands) and pushes power into the Lightning (Mace flying out of a window) the Lightning could possibly throw Anakin's Lightsaber out of his hand.




That's nice, but Anakin couldn't get a single Lightsaber hit on Kenobi. Anakin still got owned at the end. Losing three limbs IS ownage. That's all there is to it.




Basically, when It came to Lightsaber dueling, Anakin had not outclassed Kenobi ONCE during that fight. They were on par besides Anakins kicking and besides Kenobi chopping him up.





Anakin wasn't coming up on Kenobi when he jumped, he was coming down. He was higher at that point and if he was good enough, he could have outmaneuvered Kenobi and killed him. Especially if he had clashed Sabers. He would have knocked Kenobi down.

Kenobi's form consists of defending until you find a FLAW in your opponents dueling. Anakin had performed a flaw and lost because of it.




No. It's an Offensive version. Anything that was defensive in Soresu, was converted into an offensive move with Djem So.




Did you not read what I said earlier, Motoko? Anakin wanted power and wanted to kill his old master to prove a point. He thought he was more powerful. All he cared about was power at that point. His emotions were nullified by the darkness within him. Kenobi would have had more trouble emotionally seeing as he wasn't corrupted.

And Anakin had just seen his Master choked and crushed under a balcony. He was emotionally stirred. Why do you think he got so pissed off with Dooku?





Sorry, but the novelisation is not Canon. It contradicts the movie in several aspects. Hell, it wasn't even based off of the final draft of the script.

Dooku was outdueled because of Anakin's anger. Dooku also was trying to show off for Palpatine and that was a mistake as well. Near the end when they're right in front of Palpatine is when Dooku attempts to go all out.



I seem to remember Anakin sitting in a wall for around twelve seconds watching Kenobi fly across a room and then get crushed under a blacony. THEN he got up and surprised Dooku with the kick.

If Dooku had just choked Kenobi and dropped him, Dooku could have turned around and had at least eight to ten seconds to flock Anakin with the force.





What does that have to do with what I said? WTF?


If Anakin had the time (FIVE FEET AWAY) to raise his Saber to clash, he would've stopped it to block the lightning within that time instead of clashing.

Anakin was blinded.

xavius is a beastly poster! you get the legion of maul awsome amounts of posting award! and Motoko comes in second, he gets a hot chick and a gold star...i wanna be in second place.

Dr. Xavius, I am afraid that I have some bad news . . .

You have been diagnosed with Nai-Syndrome. Nai-Syndrome is a virtual disease that one receives when one deludes oneself into thinking that one's word is absolute law in a debate. The syndrome itself was named after a KMC debator Nai Fohl, who - despite his considerable intellect and debating skills - was the victim of a superiority complex and therefore considered his statements to be simply better than those around him.

There is no cure, and the only lethality is simply a social one.

-----

All joking aside, you don't know if Dooku was just showing off for Palpatine. The script, nor the movie, nor Lucas's commentary supports that claim - therefore it is without logic or support - thus making it an assumption.

Assumptions aren't things that decide a debate. You may have a supported assumption which can offer an explanation as to why something happened, but it has to be supported by proof - not by your mere opinion.

Therefore, your assumption that Dooku was simply showing off for Palpatine is grossly incorrect and has absolutely no bearing on this argument whatsoever because I have read a virtual copy of the official script and I have posted it on several threads concerning this duel. It does not state nor does it imply that Dooku was showing off. Couple this with the fact that the movie doesn't show it, nor does George Lucas comment on it and the fact that you have no other form of proof to justify it - means that it is not fact.

It is possible - but you ought to identify it as only a possibility.

The same goes for Anakin being unable to defend Force lightning due to his aggressive form. It is an unsupported assumption.

Good luck.

Originally posted by Escape81
Dr. Xavius, I am afraid that I have some bad news . . .

You have been diagnosed with Nai-Syndrome. Nai-Syndrome is a virtual disease that one receives when one deludes oneself into thinking that one's word is absolute law in a debate. The syndrome itself was named after a KMC debator Nai Fohl, who - despite his considerable intellect and debating skills - was the victim of a superiority complex and therefore considered his statements to be simply better than those around him.

There is no cure, and the only lethality is simply a social one.

-----


No it's called IKC syndrome...

About the Anakin versus Dooku fight I've found:

"Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.

"In this particular case the idea is that Palpatine is testing Anakin to see if he is strong enough to become his new apprentice, and he doesn't tell Dooku what he's actually up to." -- Lucas, ROTS Commentary.

Among other things, but these were the two main things. Now, it's not as if I have access to the commentary or "The Making of ROTS", but if these are correct (and they've given sources so you people can check), and coupled with other various facts - then Anakin beat Dooku fair and square.

So, assuming these are correct, Anakin beats Dooku while Luke watches/is killed off by Dooku. Or after the fight, is killed by Anakin.

Originally posted by Escape81
Dr. Xavius, I am afraid that I have some bad news . . .

You have been diagnosed with Nai-Syndrome. Nai-Syndrome is a virtual disease that one receives when one deludes oneself into thinking that one's word is absolute law in a debate. The syndrome itself was named after a KMC debator Nai Fohl, who - despite his considerable intellect and debating skills - was the victim of a superiority complex and therefore considered his statements to be simply better than those around him.

There is no cure, and the only lethality is simply a social one.

-----

All joking aside, you don't know if Dooku was just showing off for Palpatine. The script, nor the movie, nor Lucas's commentary supports that claim - therefore it is without logic or support - thus making it an assumption.

Assumptions aren't things that decide a debate. You may have a supported assumption which can offer an explanation as to why something happened, but it has to be supported by proof - not by your mere opinion.

Therefore, your assumption that Dooku was simply showing off for Palpatine is grossly incorrect and has absolutely no bearing on this argument whatsoever because I have read a virtual copy of the official script and I have posted it on several threads concerning this duel. It does not state nor does it imply that Dooku was showing off. Couple this with the fact that the movie doesn't show it, nor does George Lucas comment on it and the fact that you have no other form of proof to justify it - means that it is not fact.

It is possible - but you ought to identify it as only a possibility.

The same goes for Anakin being unable to defend Force lightning due to his aggressive form. It is an unsupported assumption.

Good luck.

Yes, you're right. I have no proof for that indeed.

I'm sorry, but saying that Anakin cannot do it because of his aggresive form IS actually a safe assumption, in all reality.

He wasn't able to do it once. So . . . Motoko is assuming that because he is a Knight, he is able to do it. Also because he is stronger and faster.

Aggresive Forms usually lack advanced defensive tactics - because it's primary sufficiency happens to be . . . Offense.

Basically, Motoko's argument was, because Mace and Kenobi could block Lightning, so could Anakin. I thought that was logically ridiculous.

Dooku isolated Kenobi and virtually crushed him. He then decided to full out begin to duel Anakin instead of utilizing the Force against him. Dooku knew Anakin's strength. He told him that himself. I think Dooku could have won that battle if he had used the Force, but unfortunately, his Arrogance overstepped his Logic and he got stomped by Anakin.

Originally posted by Xavius
I'm sorry, but saying that Anakin cannot do it because of his aggresive form IS actually a safe assumption, in all reality.

Considering Mace Windu uses an aggresive form...?



Wow, bullsh*t? When did I say he'll be able to do it because of his title?



Overview:

Stronger. Faster. Far more experienced. Less arrogant. More agile.



This somehow stopped Mace Windu? Seriously. It turns defensive moves into offensive moves a la Mace Windu reflecting lightning back. Is that not defense turned offense in comparison to Obi-Wan in AOTC?



Really? Because stating that since he got pwned by it in AOTC, he will be pwned by it in ROTS is pretty sound?

Did Kenobi struggle? Was he like "z0mg I c4nt br34th!"? No. He just put up his saber. Wow, maneuver? No. Hard? Not at least as hard as you're making it out to be.

Anyways point is: Anakin is more powerful than Dooku. Dooku went all out, he didn't hold back. The Making of ROTS apparently, and the Revenge of the Sith commentary both support that.

Ani have shown his power, when fighting asaj XD

You have to have had to master other forms to use it and Mace has had years and YEARS of experience with Lightsaber usage. He's a Lightsaber dueling prodigy, Motoko.




Sorry, I didn't quite elaborate on that much. You said since he had grown stronger in the past years, he could block Lightning. That's ridiculous.



Less arrogant? He was arrogant enough to turn over to the Darkside, Arrogant enough to choke his wife over his hellbent need for power, Arrogant enough to scream and rant when he wasn't granted a rank and Arrogant enough to make such a bold flaw in a duel with Kenobi. Less Arrogant? Bullshit, I say.




This somehow stopped Mace Windu? Seriously. It turns defensive moves into offensive moves a la Mace Windu reflecting lightning back. Is that not defense turned offense in comparison to Obi-Wan in AOTC?

"You have to have had to master other forms to use it and Mace has had years and YEARS of experience with Lightsaber usage. He's a Lightsaber dueling prodigy, Motoko.

Djem So is the offensive version of Soresu. OFFENSIVE. It also happens to be one of the most offensive and aggresive forms. It does not count on advanced defense techniques. Of course, it has some defense, seeing as where it came from, but it doesn't go much further.




That's like me saying Dooku had applied no skill in dueling Kenobi and Anakin because he wasn't out of breath or showing harsh faces. Dooku was smiling, so maybe he wasn't using his form at all! *GASP* Maybe he was just moving his saber around!!! That doesn't require skill!!! zOmg!

Kenobi is sufficient in using advanced defensive techniques, seeing as his ENTIRE form is based on Defending and blocking. Jesus.



Of course . . . When it came to Lightsaber combat. I believe Dooku at that point had more Force power and could've won if he did not give into his arrogance and started using the Force to lay the smackdown. Kenobi and Anakin were virtually on par with Force at that point and Dooku layed Kenobi out.

Wether or not Anakin could block the lightning is errelavent. Dooku has an arsenal of many more force techniques. The fact of the matter is; 1. Anakin was always emotionaly uncontrollable 2. His potential may have been great, but he would never be able to unlock it 3. He may have been good with the sword but his anger often confused and ebbed away at him. Dooku deafeats the Skywalkers.

1. Anakin was always emotionaly uncontrollable

Source, evidence, or proof please.

His potential may have been great, but he would never be able to unlock it

Proof?

He may have been good with the sword but his anger often confused and ebbed away at him. Dooku deafeats the Skywalkers

Since Padme is not involved, RotS Anakin won't get emotionally stressed. Point moot.

Originally posted by Razielim
1. Anakin was always emotionaly uncontrollable

Source, evidence, or proof please.

His potential may have been great, but he would never be able to unlock it

Proof?

He may have been good with the sword but his anger often confused and ebbed away at him. Dooku deafeats the Skywalkers

Since Padme is not involved, RotS Anakin won't get emotionally stressed. Point moot.


Watch the movie and commentaries.

Watch the movie and commentaries.

I saw and heard both. You made the claim, you need to justify it by sourcing and proving it. Reference something. You don't say "Go watch teh movie!". That's not how intelligent debates work.

Originally posted by Razielim
Watch the movie and commentaries.

I saw and heard both. You made the claim, you need to justify it by sourcing and proving it. Reference something. You don't say "Go watch teh movie!". That's not how intelligent debates work.

Learn how to quote and I'll continue the debate. . .

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Learn how to quote and I'll continue the debate. . .

Alrighty then!

Originally posted by Razielim
Alrighty then!

Good. Now then on the site(several actually)Anakin' profiles state that he has many emotional problems. The fact that his mother died in his arms drove him a little of the edge, The fact that one of his best friends(Qui-Gonn) died, the wisdom of the council clashing with his personall ambitions, his friendship with Palpatine(who constantly shows the "goodness" in giving in to the emotions, and finally Padme's friendship with Kenobi makes him twice as angry as he already was. All those emotions bear down on him and take away from his concentration and make him lose focus. Without focusing he will surely get his other arm lopped off.

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Good. Now then on the site(several actually)Anakin' profiles state that he has many emotional problems.

I believe this is referring to Anakin in general. By RotS, Anakin had matured. By RotS, it didn't really affect his combat (save on Mustafar, but that was due to his wife leaving him)



AotC Anakin was terribly emotionally unstable, and that really limited him as a far. But by RotS, Anakin had matured.



These three things didn't take a visible effect on his combat abilities.



He wasn't really mad over the fact that she was friends with Obi-Wan; but by the end of RotS Vader thought that Padme has betrayed him and joined the "Jedi traitors" against the Empire. He lost his cool here because Padme arrived and said "You're breaking my heart, you're evil, i don't wanna be with you, Obi-Wan was right..." and guess who comes out of her ship? Obi-Wan Kenobi. This caused him to act all stupid, not Kenobi's simple friendship with Padme.

Since this kind of emotional stress is absent in this fight, I'm inclined to think the Skywalkers win.

Razielim is correct.

count dooku can not use his force abilities on them both the skywalkers would take it anakin would go in head first with speed and aggression while Luke would take it slow mabe just distracting dooku so anakin could go in for the kill

Originally posted by anakin 106
count dooku can not use his force abilities on them both the skywalkers would take it anakin would go in head first with speed and aggression while Luke would take it slow mabe just distracting dooku so anakin could go in for the kill

Use force lightning on one Force chokes the other.

Assuming both hands are in tact.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Assuming both hands are in tact.

In Kotor 2 Kreia does not need a hand to do any of thos e powers

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
In Kotor 2 Kreia does not need a hand to do any of thos e powers

Sadly she can't produce two Force powers at once.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Sadly she can't produce two Force powers at once.

Dooku force pulled Quinlan Vos' lightsaber from him and force choked him