My Episode III prophecy....

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spirit_machine
Alright, this is lengthy, but do read and comment on it....

Title= Episode III: Fall of the Jedi

One thing we do know is that Obi-Wan and Yoda are the only surviving Jedi. With that in mind, here is my tale of Episode III.

Two years after Anakin and Padme's marriage, Anakin has still not become a Jedi Knight and is not taking it well. After finding out about the marriage, the Jedi counsil along with Obi-Wan is very reluctant to let him go through the trials.
Meanwhile, Palpatine has been fighting war with the Confederates non-stop and the Jedi counsil has become every more curious about the direction the Republic is taking. The galaxy as a whole is becoming to distrust the Jedi. Obi-Wan is sent out to investigate the suspected secret base of Count Dooku and the Confederates. On his way to the suspected planet, his starfighter is damaged and captured by a confederate ship.
After not hearing from Obi-Wan for a while, Mace Windu, along with Anakin and a handful of Jedi go to the suspected planet where Obi-wan was going. While there, Mace and Anakin get separated from the rest of the Jedi who are ambushed by a handful of Dark Jedi and are killed. Mace and Anakin eventually meet up with Dooku and Another cloaked man.
When the man is revealed as Palpatine, Mace attacks him but is stopped by Dooku. The two of them start battling as Palpatine attacks Anakin. Palpatine uses force lightning on Anakin nearly killing him distracting mace. Dooku takes the opportunity to kill Mace. Next, Dooku walks up to Anakin telling him that he will finish off what he started back on Geonosis. As Dooku slashes at him, Anakin defends himself and starts battling him. Eventually, Anakin knocks Dooku to the ground and starts violently slashing at him while hes down. Anakin manages to cut off his hand, just as Luke did to Vader in ROTJ. Next, Anakin brings his saber pointing at Dooku's chest. As he does this, Palpatine tells Anakin that the darkside has made him this strong. He also says to finish Dooku off and become the most powerful of all Jedi. Unlike his son Luke, Anakin does strike Dooku killing him, finishing his journey to the Dark side.

The rest of the movie will be Anakin, now called Darth Vader hunting down the rest of the Jedi. When he meets Obi-Wan, they battle, and Obi-Wan ends up the victor, leaving Vader thinking that he is dead. After Obi-Wan returns to the Jedi Counsil, Palpatine has declared himself Emperor and introduces his right hand man.... DARTH VADER, back from the grave. Yoda instructs the remaining Jedi to go into hiding. Obi-Wan takes Padme and Leia to Alderon, and takes Yoda, Luke, and himself to Dagobah. While there, Yoda is attacked by a Dark Jedi. He then instructs Obi-Wan to take Luke away to Tatooine. Obi-Wan does so taking him Anakin's stepbrother, Owen Lars. After doing so, he builds his own home to watch over young Luke and taking the alias, Ben Kenobi. The movie will end with Obi-Wan in his home and Qui-Gon's ghost appearing telling him not to worry, because in time, a New Hope will come. *THE END*

I hoped you all enjoy. And I love critizism, so fire away....
AND ONE MORE THING:
in episode III, Boba Fett will disintigrate one of the Jedi. Remember in ESB when Vader says... "and no disintigrations" to Boba Fett

jedi fernando

LaurenE147
very plausible

Julie
eh...not bad, but too soon to tell definately....speculation is good

Ushgarak
What IS this obsession with Boba Fett disinteghrating? It was just a throwaway line at the time; it was never meant to be part of his life story. He's only going to be 13 anyway.

Definitely not plausible with the Dark Jedi, as Fernando says.

As speculation it is fine but it doesn't include any of the (admittedly sparse) facts we have so far, like the film starting with the end of the Clone Wars.

jedi fernando

Ushgarak
Because a 13 year old disintegrating a Jedi is still a horrifying eventuality, and so I am in denial about it.

yerssot
that formula 1 champion is the Chosen One, you must see it!
*runs to get harmax big grin*

spirit_machine
well, maybe bounty hunters are better to say. about boba fett, i just say that because it just sounds like a quote that would be referring to a major part of vader and fett's past. and i dont see why a 13 year old couldnt do it? he must be furious with the jedi.... i mean, a jedi killed his father. about the clones, they are probably killed by order of the emperor, kamino is blown up, and clone troopers are replaced by stormtroopers. and the obi-wan/anakin fight has to take place post anankin becoming vader. why would it take place pre-vader? well, we really cant be too sure, its not like we are george lucas. in three years he will amaze us with a great battle that everyone has gone on long enough without.

Oh, and another thing, i came up with a better title for episode III.... THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE... pretty cool, huh? i bet someone already said it, but i still think its cool

yerssot

sand person no. 10
the clones are probably going to turn into the storm troopers
there won't be any dark jedi they don't exist
apart form that though your probably just about right.

LaurenE147
I think it would be great if the ESB line did refer to something we would see in the movie. It would be one of those things like when we saw that Anakin had made Threepio.

Dexx
all that reading makes me dizzy....
*faints*

spirit_machine
why wouldnt dark jedis exist? out of the many that learn to be a jedi, dont you think at least one would be tempted to the dark side? just because one uses the dark side doesnt automatically make one a Sith. and since they use the dark side, they wouldnt be a recongnized jedi

What else would you call them?

LaurenE147
Yeah. If a Jedi is evil but not a Sith, then it would have to be a Dark Jedi, wouldn't it? There can only be two Sith.

master harmax
Not a bad piece of speculation. However, this movie is primarily about Anakin's turn. And I feel that part of the speculation is a bit weak. He's still a pretty decent guy at the end of AOTC ... what exactly is it that turns a nice kid ( albeit a hotheaded kid ) with great potential for good into Darth Vader ? Not just the killing of a sith lord ... in fact ... any Jedi would do his best to kill Dooku ... not just Anakin. Just because a Jedi kills a sith lord, that doesn't turn him to evil. So exactly the reasons for his turning, for his fall would have to be more complex and detailed. It will be more of a cumulative effect of various factors and events ... his killing Dooku would just be like a trigger.

sand person no. 10
there can't be evil jedi's, they would no longer be jedi's, just people who use the force for evil. its in the nature of a jedi to be good, not evil, as mace said.

LaurenE147
So what is an evil jedi who isn't one of the two?

yerssot
none-existing

jedi fernando
renegade jedis, are not exactly evil.

so yerssot is right, an evil jedi apart from the existing two sith, is none-exisiting.

yerssot
a renegade jedi is ofcourse not evil! look at qgj

Dexx
i'm partial on Yoda returning to dagobah after being deffeated

yerssot
who said anything about being defeated?

master harmax
The only one I can stand to think of defeating Yoda ( and that too grudgingly) is Darth Sidious. That's it.

I've always wondered what's the difference between a dark jedi and a sith. I mean ... if you're a dark jedi ... doesn't that make u a sith ? Isn't that what a sith lord basically is ? - A dark jedi ?

Ushgarak
No, not at all. The Sith are a definitive organisation; you aren't a Sith unless you belong to it. And just going to the Dark Side does not, of course, make you a Sith.

Technically speaking the Jedi now think Dooku is a Dark Jedi, because they don't think he is a Sith but they know he is a Jedi that has fallen to the Dark Side. Dark Jedi is not a literal term, of course, because they aren't Jedi at all; it is just a colloquialism,

sand person no. 10
why don't the jedi think dooku is a sith, yoda says that he senses the dark side in him, didn't ob1 say something similar to vader. dark jedi's don't exist, there just something that was invented in EU land and a bandwagon that fans jump on.
Jedi's don't practice the dark side, the sith do, jedi's only practice the light side, there is no grey side between sith and jedi. one or the other.

yerssot
He's a political idealist, not a murderer!

(great line!)

Ushgarak
No-one is claiming a grey area. But all that is needed foe a Jedi to fall is for him to embrace his emotions and join the Dark Side. This would NOT make him a Sith, any more than Anakin was a Jedi before QGJ found him. You do actually have to join the organisation!

Yoda knows Dooku has fallen to the Dark Side but NO-ONE has made out he is therefore a Sith. As far as they are concerned the identifity of the Sith is still unknown.

That therefore makes Dooku, in the eyes of the Jedi, a Dark 'Jedi'.

LaurenE147
What was Mara Jade?

Ushgarak
A weird EU thingy. Based on the EU 'revolving door' policy where people seem to be happily able to flick bewtween the Light and Dark sides like return tickets were freely available.

jedi fernando

yerssot
EU

jedi fernando
i thought i saw scans of the official aotc something book, where they show everything designed fo aotc .

yerssot
could well be TF.N in the humor section they had a holocron in that one

Ushgarak
No canonical reference ever made to holocrons; even if there were, how are you meant to identifty Sith by sight?

I always considered a renegade Jedi to be one that did not follow the code, like Qui-Gon. Dooku had actually left the order entirely making him not a Jedi at all.

A Sith Lord doesn't have to have been a Knight.

jedi fernando

Ushgarak
Well, Palpatine was never a Jedi, was he? And I would imagine before the rule of two came in nearly all Sith had never been Knights.

Sadly we are given very little insight to what the Council thought of Dooku leaving the Order.

jedi fernando

Ushgarak
What makes you think they were ever known as Knights?

jedi fernando

sand person no. 10
so did mike tyson, palpatine never actually fights, he justs woops Lukes ass with a thunderstorm.

jedi fernando
we are talking about the sith of the rule of two, sandperson read cautiosly before posting

Ushgarak
Just because you fight it does not make you a Knight. Knight is purely an honorific that we have no reason to believe is used by the Sith.

jedi fernando
i used the word knight as a synonim to warrior, or soldier. if the word 'knight' means a honorific grade or rank only, then plz tell me how to describe a sith.

jedi fernando
and if a sith is not a warrior or soldier, then what are they? monks? professors? doctors? wisemen?

Ushgarak
I would imagine that in their heyday they were all sorts, just like the Jedi are. You should indeed have been using the term 'Fighters' or 'Warriors' rather than Knights.

We don't know what Sith were referred to other than 'Lords', and that might have been their equivalent of 'Master'.

jedi fernando
alright then. sith are warriors.

JediOasis
The JC has to believe that Dooku is a Sith. After it was discovered that Maul was indeed a Sith the Jedi knew there was another one out there, they just weren't sure if it was the master of apprentice. Surely they must think Dooku is a Sith, its just way to big of a coincedence for him to leave the Jedi Order around the same time the Sith come back.

yerssot
he has a good reason, imo

and they believe he's good, he was in the JO of course, so would be difficult for him to be a sith

Ushgarak
Obvious as it may seem to us, JO, they clearly showed that they were not treating Dooku as a Sith.

Remember in any case that Dooku only became a Sith AFTER TPM; this is a twist that the Jedi almost certainly did not suspect and so the suspicions of him being a Sith are very low, doubly so after his 'reveal' to Obi-Wan.

finti
so how do they treat siths

Ushgarak
As someone they would talk of as "Ok, we've found the other Sith!" Not the rather feeble "Do you think he was telling the truth about the Senate?" conversation we got.

All they know is that he is on the Dark Side; they haven't the remotest proof of Sith involvment. Yoda didn't day "Know he should, after all, a Sith is he!"; all he said was that deceit and deception is his way now.

finti
aint Dooku also called Darth Tyranus (darth is a sith name)

mah
but only by the emperor, no?

finti
well the JC must consider him a sith unless they are imbeciles

yerssot
only one knows that name and that is Palpa.
and what you insinuate would lead to every fallen be a sith

finti
huh?, three of them met dooku in a fight, they must see him as a sith after those encounters, espesially Yoda must know by now

yerssot
why?

finti
because of his powers, and a jedi master must be able to detect a sith when fighting one

yerssot
ob1 knew what to do with the lightning...
and what powers? it doesn't say it"s a sith

Ushgarak
Yes indeed; we don't know if there is anything definitive, power-wise, about a Sith at all. They may have access to vast amounts of knowledge and stuff like that but we don;lt know if there is anything special about them.

QGJ's ONLY reason for suspecting Maul as a Sith was that he was trained. There is no such suspicion with Dooku who was trained as a Jedi.

finti
the powers are his lightnings, and in ep I Palpy said those two jedis would be no match for maul, got it wrong though, but anyways from this we must presume the siths are powerfull. Skilled with "dirty" tricks and so.

yerssot
because they know lightning they are 100% certain sith?
that's odd...

finti
they must be able to recognize/identify a sith while fighting one.

Ushgarak
I can think of absolutely NO reason at all to believe that. The Sith is an organisation; unless they wear badges I can't see anything special about being a Sith whick makes them identifiable.

We also have no indication that Lightning is Sith only. It's not as if Obi-Wan said "Blimey, he must be a Sith!" when Dooku did that. And Sidious simply had confidence in Maul's supreme swordfighting, is all. He didn't use ANY tricks at all except his skills! He could just have easily have been a super-skilled Jedi swordsman, like Mace.

It's not canon, of course, but the website agrees with me:

"Dooku escaped, with the Jedi aware of his succumbing to the dark side, but yet still unaware of his Sith allegiance."

I think you will find, for sure, that by episode III they are not treating DOoku as a Sith and will be surprised when they find out he is.

finti
they must suspect him to be a sith, they must be on alert after they found Maul to be a sith. "Always two there are" that means there is one more they know about only they dont know who. Dooku must be a good candidate for the "other" one

yerssot
it's not because you leave the order you are automaticly a sith

"Count Dooku is a political idealist, not a murderer!"

think about it; you have a sith, got split in two ten years ago... at that point (probably after qgj got killed, afterall that was his apprentice that got killed thanks to the republic) he leaves the order.
How can a Jedi that served the good train a sith in the meantime?
Easy: he can't! he can't spend enough time training/teaching Maul to make what he was.

Ushgarak
Yes, the idea that Dooku is the apprentice would seem amazingly improbable to them, and the idea of him being the Master impossible because he did not go bad until after Maul died.

This IS the presented scenario. Suspicious or otherwise they have not identified Dooku as a Sith.

finti
I thought they happen around the same time and for all the JC knew his good act could have been a disguise
we dont hear them say he is a sith if they have identified him as a sith by the time of EPIII we dont know.

master harmax
The thing is, the reason why they wouldn't suspect Dooku being a SITH lord, is because ... he would have to be either the master or the apprentice ... and he couldn't have been the master. He left the Jedi Order only after the death of Darth Maul. And they just find it difficult to accept or imagine, that a force master of Dooku's calibre, could be apprentice to anyone.

All the same, dark side lightening, it seems to me, is a technique known to sith lords; not jedis and not even renegade jedis who may have succumbed to the lure of the dark side. Therefore, it seems to me, that Mace Windu and Yoda, might have more seriously considered the possibility, that Count Dooku might have been recieving training, from a Sith Lord of great power, whose presence they might not be able to sense.

yerssot
there is no rule that says you can't learn lightning on your own...

and it is still possible that Dooku stayed in shape after leaving the order...

master harmax
Yes, but upto this last movie, lightening has been associated with the one and only master sith lord ... not even his exceptionally powerful apprentice. Even the concept of a Dark Jedi i.e. a jedi whose using the dark side for selfish purposes, but isn't a bonafide sith lord, has been introduced in the MOVIES only with the last one.

My point is : Generating dark side lightening is an exceptionally technique, that would be known only to hightly skilled SITH lords ... just because you are a jedi fallen to the dark side, does not mean you can master this technique ... unless you are truly a very powerful dark side master ... and you've recieved training from another dark side master, who knows the technique himself.

yerssot
and what is the exact source?

master harmax
I would presume that would date back to the earliest times of the sith order, before it broke down, and was considered completely destroyed.

Ushgarak
I too have always assumed lightning to be a Sith only thing but AOTC makes me think twice about that exactly because Dooku is not suspected of being a Sith.

And meanwhile I still think the closing scenes in AOTC make it pretty obvious that they do not suspect Dooku as the Sith or it WOULD have been mentioned. Harmax makes out the logical problem about him being a Sith very well. The twist really is that such an old Master was taken as an apprentice.

yerssot
well, they made a big drama out of the sith in EpI with mentioning it a few times and now they don't talk about it? that means they don't associate him with it.

finti
Looks like the fact that Dooku leave the jedi order after Mauls death is taken for granted. Where does it state that Dooku leaves after MAuls death.

yerssot
you forgot to mention that his former padawan was killed in action by Maul

finti
it is not my point, I wanna know where it is stated that Dooku left AFTER MAULS death.

queeq
I don't know if it says so anywhere. I do seem to recall that Qui-Gon's death had something to do with him leaving. And it seems rather obvious that he left after Maul died... IMHO.

yerssot
it's stated in the novel that he left because of the death of qgj, so I heared

Ushgarak
I think that is most definitely the default thing to think. The idea that Dooku could have taught Maul would appear ridiculous; as indeed it is.

finti
what are you babling about USH, I want to know where it is stated that Dooku left AFTER Maul was killed.
And Yers the novel just say he left cause he lost faith in the Republic

Ushgarak
I'm not babbling, I was answering your question. It's not stated directly but it is the default thing to think that Dooku left after Maul died.

Ushgarak
Incidentally, here is a script extract from the unused 'Lost Twenty' scene from AOTC which clearly shows what time period they were thinking about with Dooku.

"He disappeared for nine or ten years, then he just showed up recently as the head of the separatist movement."

That line may not have made it to the film but we have plenty that shows that when DOoku was created he was clearly intended to be a person who left the Order AFTER the battle of Naboo.

finti
and this reply answeres who`s question

Ushgarak
I was pointing out why, as far as the Jedi are concerned, he could not be the Master, having already established that thinking he was the apprentice almost certainly did not occur to them.

finti
seems like nothing occur to the JC, they come out as a bunch of morons unable to spot a thing.
After the battle of Naboo they must be on the alert of another sith (other than Maul) knowing they(siths) have returned. If the master was left he would certainly seek a new apprentice, and if the apprentice was left he would advance the rank to a master seeking his own apprentice. But to me it seems by the time of AOTC they havent bothered too much looking for the siths even if they complain about the dark side clouding everything.
In the eyes of the Jedi council, knowing the Siths are out there, Dooku must be a highly candidate as a suspect of being a Sith after the insidents and encounters of AOTC.

yerssot
and they said they cut it out to get in a decent timeframe of +2h. It's written, it's shot, and for me it's canon

finti
9-10 can be 10 as much as nine and if 10 well then it can be before the battle of Naboo

yerssot
Republic failed, that was clear AFTER the battle

LaurenE147
If that is default then so is the fact that Dooku was bested by Yoda.

yerssot
did Dooku got hit by Yoda's lightsabre? Did Dooku got into problems during the fight?

finti
well this info we know.
The first clones was ordered by this Sifo-Dyas dude around 10 years ago, Jango was recruited as template to the clone army by a man called Tyranus, so from this WE know Dooku must have been recruited as a sith very much right after his departure from Jedi order.
It is also a fact that the jedis dont know he is a sith by the end of AOTC, but he must be a prime candidate of being one. Knowing there is one sith around after the battle of Naboo, it must dawn on the JC that Dooku may as well have gotten seduced by the surviving sith. After all they know he has joined the dark side, being corrupted by the dark side a seduction towards a sith cant be far away.

finti
even if you aint got hit, you can be outclassed. To me it seemed he was busy defending himself. An even match but with a little edge to Yoda

yerssot
they won't admit that easily, he was one of them.
They think he can't do any evil things
"He's a political idealist, not a murderer"

finti
well all that change after the encounter

yerssot
the only thing it tells them is that he is now with the Dark Side, not that he is a sith!

finti
but the chance of being on the dark side and move/ceduced towards being a sith must be close. Especially when the surviving sith must be looking for a new "partner"

yerssot
not at all, dark side doesn't mean sith by default

finti
and I didnt write that either roll eyes (sarcastic)

yerssot
no, wrote that for others big grin

finti
roll eyes (sarcastic)

Ushgarak
Lauren, that's nonsense; how on Earth can it be default that Yoda is better than Dooku when the two were shown as equals? What a silly comment! It's the default thing to think that Dooku left the Order after Maul died because of the dates we have, as in we have something that shows it even though it was not on film. We have NOTHING that makes us think that Yoda is better than Dooku, doubly so as they are even declared evens in Force power!

Anyway, maybe they will suspect Dooku but I think the idea is that it is just too unthinkable. No-one would think that such an old Jedi could become an Apprentice. They are looking for a younger man. Unless they are looking fo the Master, the timescale of which rules out Dooku.

finti
the dates indicate 10 years and that can be both before and after Mauls death.
Why is it unthinkable, he turn to the darkside, bet that was unthinkable too.

Ushgarak
I said why just afterwards. Too young to be the new apprentice. WE know he is but it probably seems absurd.

Ten years ago almost certainly means after Naboo, though, definitely as just 9 OR 10 years was specified.

finti
was specified as when sifo dyas ordered the clone army that is just speculation it can as well be before the battle.
You are probably right though, but if it is after the battle of Naboo then I think Dooku was seduced to leave the Jedi order. Or else the time span gets a bit to narrow.

Ushgarak
Oh I know it's not CERTAIN with what we have, but it's very probable.

Yes, he would have to be seduced very fast. The rumour always was that he deliberately switched sides by seeking out the Sith after QGJ died.

finti
the more I think about it the more I think he was seduced to leave, maybe what you said Ush that he deliberately sought out the Siths, but it will make Palpetine look much stronger if he was able to seduce him away from the Jedi Order. (Imho)

Ushgarak
It would certainly have been nice to have known more. Did Dooku start out with Anakin-like reform intentions that got twisted? Or was he getting dodgy anyway?

finti
I can imagine him being arrogant, maybe because he chose the old style of fighting making him feel inferior to the rest.

LaurenE147
Perhaps Dooku didn't turn Sith until after he learned.

Ush, every single time you feel yourself getting very upset like you just did about something very insignificant repeat this to yourself: IT'S JUST A MOVIE!!!!!!!

And it was not a silly comment. There is no evidence that Dooku and Yoda were equals. While there is no evidence movie-wise that Yoda bested Dooku, all of the statements about it from viable sources have stated that Yoda was winning and Dooku was trying to escape.

mah
which sources?

yerssot
*starts to cry*


and again... NO! Look at the movie please! Yoda wasn't winning and Dookus only thing he wanted to do was getting away to his master, not stalling while republic troops got closer

finti
In my opinion Yoda looked the best in the battle, but as Yers said Dooku was busy getting away with the DS plans

Ushgarak
I respect that it is your opinion. I thionk otherwise, and I am speaking as someone who knows something about swordfighting so I am confident in that opinion, but that's all there is too it.

Lauren, stop getting hysterical. I wasn't getting upset, I just slap down bad argument and I do not expect to be criticised for that. There is plenty of evidence that Yoda and Dooku were equals- they are DECLARED equals in the Force and Yoda didn't beat him now, did he? So the only default way to think is that they are equals. You have the OPINION that Yoda is superior- which you are entitled to- but what was silly was saying that that was the default way to think when it absolutely is not.

finti
and you think you are the only one who does??

yerssot
only one on the forum with good knowledge, I think...perhaps zereil...

finti
oh really, and what do you know about that?

yerssot
not much about him, although he did posted a pic with him holding a sword

Ushgarak
No, he doesn't know anything about swordfighting... that sword belongs to my family.

I didn;t at any point say I was the only one who did, Finti. But I haven't seen anyone comment on this lately with what appeared to be a practised eye. There were a couple of people who knew what they were talking about a year and a bit back, though.

finti
big grin rolling on floor laughing
Well I must say my point is that it was even but with a little edge to Yoda. Mainly cause Dooku fought defensive most of the time.
Yes I remeber people complained about tha C Lee was to old and couldnt be any good opponent for swordfighting

phinney6
*walks in....Walks out*

ko_kidd_2k1
There are a few things I want to say here, and I'm sorry if I "stole" someone's idea, as this post is long as sh!t and I'm still reading it now!

smile

Anyway, didn't you guys ever NOTICE THE RED GUARDS ????????

I mean I always thought, WTF, these guys must be badass--I mean the vibro-stick thing, I forgot actual name. And I read in the Visual Dictionary about how they're secretly trained or something like that, and ONLY PALPATINE knows about this (where they come from, etc.)

That's gotta turn some heads right there, and we've yet to see this vibro-axes (I think that's the name) in action.

Also, we probably will see Boba Fett kill some ppl, he is trained by his father, who was pretty bad@ss. And he might have different armor, maybe his fathers, or another Mandalorian armor suit. BTW, I think we might finally see the Mandalorian army.

P.S. This might not make sense to everyone, but the red guard COULD be sith, or dark Jedi or something like that.

And we might see what happened to the Lost Twenty (as in...Lucas probably held that part out to be explained better in the next film).

One more thing:

To some ppl this is open and shut, but Palpatine MIGHT be a clone of Sidious.

I know what you're thinking, that it's obvious that they're the "same" person, but some starwars.com message boards, and others have inclined me to think that there's more to Sidious than we realize--PLUS he's right in front of YODA--THE FREAKIN MASTER, it will be sad if that really is Palp and he doesn't sense the Dark Side in him.

yerssot
a big hello there! good to see you posting

yes, I know about the red guards, they were already visible in the trailer. But the visual dictionary isn't canon, meaning it isn't "true"
The only thing for sure, is that they are guards, that's all...YET


And I'm sorry, George Lucas has already told that Boba WILL be in EPIII but with a small role and without killing since he's too young


and on the EpI DVD, you can watch TPM while GL and others give explanation about it all, there they openly said that Sidious and Palpatine were the same person...

again, nothing is certain, all can change

Ushgarak
I still can't understand the thinking that says a person on the defensive is losing, but never mind.

In any case, though, there was most certainly no significant distinction between the two.

LaurenE147
Did the force call you up and tell you this?

finti
didnt say he was loosing but the guy on the offensive seems to have the "upper" hand

Ushgarak
Well, it didn;t look like that way to me, but there you go.

Lauren, I used some common sense to tell me that. Again, you just trying to insult me gets you nothing.

ko_kidd_2k1
Well you say that the VD isn't cannon (Visual Dictionary) and I can understand your thinking; but isn't it licensed, or something like that, to the publishers, and ILM and LucasFilm give them the info and photos/models to make photos off of.

ONE THING OFF TOPIC, slightly:

DID ANYONE NOTICE HOW MACE HOLDS HIS SABER, THAT'S COOL AS SH!T, HE HOLDS IT WITH ONE HAND AT THE TOP AND HIS OTHER HAND FISTED AROUND, just kinda cool IMO, definitely different from the baseball bat-like hold of the other Jedi's...NOT trying to make something out of nothing, just pointing out something I thought was cool. cool

Anyway, I understand what you're saying, I just wanted to say the Jedi Order was/is screwed like a b!tch if even Master Yoda can't figure this out, OUCH! embarrasment

But I think Yoda is still beter than Dooku:
--Knows mad techniques, obviously
--Bad@ss in the Force, kinda the same
--Excellent saber techniques
--and he IS about 870 years old or so in Ep II

the last one is just to put it in perspective, although we have no idea how old his species can get.

They fought for like 3-5 minutes, I THINK (forgot), but their fight wasn't that long, Dooku only showed us lightning, not like that isn't strong Dark Side use (we think it's DS, the lightning), and he was on the defensive.

Yoda IMO wasn't trying to kill Dooku, because if they went Force vs. Force with Yoda being able to absorb, etc. it would have been pretty long, but Yoda would have won IMO.

Now you'll say, what about that fight, Yoda went all out, all he did was some sweet Force speed (a little I think) and some force assisted jumps, etc. trying to stop Dooku from leaving...sure he coulda cut off a limb or so (PLEASE FOLLOW ME) but that would have just disabled Dooku. Dooku WAS a student in the Order before.

And I'm still hoping the Red Guard are as bad as they look.

Ushgarak
That seems a weird few. Yoda was there to stop Dooku by any means possible, which included killing him. Those blows he was striking were designed to kill.

yerssot
an example...
In the VD of TPM, there was written that the long fingers of Aurra Sing sucked blood out of her victims, afterwards LucasFilm said that was untrue... so you see, not everything in the VD is true.

And if I'm not mistaken, EU is licensed too, and EU is not canon


Haven't noticed that, thanks for pointing out

master harmax
I have the official Star Wars Movie Storybook, publised by Lucas film, written exacty as per the storyline on screen, no more no less.

And when Yoda was fighting Dooku, it is written in the book that : " Dooku was no match for his old master " etc,etc

As far as I'm concerned, the intention was definitely to show Yoda as the most superior ( including Dooku )

LaurenE147
I wasn't aware that I was insulting you

Ushgarak
"Did the Force call you up and tell you this" was clearly a mocking insult.

finti
Well Ush you said she made a silly comment so I guess it is kind of a payback.
And KK2k1 I doubt we will ever see the red guards in action. Guess the are some sort of elite core among senate guards

yerssot
actually became red with Palpatine as Supreme Chancellor and HIS guard became red, the other stayed blue

Ushgarak
Yeah, Finti, but I backed it- it wasn't there just for its own sake.

And Harmax, that storybook is no more accurate than the Visual Dictionaries. That statement is clearly flawed anyway- even if you think Yoda DID have an edge, it was most DEFINITELY not a case of Dooku being no match; that is the most gross hyperbole.

LaurenE147
Ush, we all know about the canon and non-canon rules, but if you look at all of the sources, the Visual Dictionary, the official site, they all agree that there Yoda had an edge and that's why he ran away. When there is that sort of total agreement, it's probably right. I know you hate to be wrong. But you are. Sorry.

yerssot
example:

all the EU talk about yellow sabres, black sabres, white sabres etc.
Not only novels but the BTM CD too,
GL himself said that there are only 3 colors: green and blue for the jedi and red for the sith (purple wasn't 'invented' yet)
So, who do you believe?

Ushgarak
Pfft! Still being feeble, Lauren. While it is clear that it is you who clearly cannot stand being wrong you have again just made a pointless post that does not redress any issues.

Starting with the fact that what we have on film shows two equals and you need a canon source to override this. Yerssot has already pointed out how unreliable these other sources are

Secondly, you try and use the official site to back your argument. Bad move. Here is what it says:

"The Jedi Master Yoda confronted Dooku. The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other. It came down to a contest of lightsabers. In a blurring tangle of speed and light, the two masters of the Force dueled. Unable to find an advantage, Dooku distracted Yoda by endangering Kenobi and Skywalker with a toppling crane. As Yoda used the Force to save his fellow Jedi, Dooku fled."

Oh yeah, that is CLEARLY showing Dooku as massively inferior, isn't it?

You haven't even been botherd to check your arguments; you are just ranting at me because it is YOU that cannot stand to be shown to be wrong.

And no-one has even mentioned the VD so I don;t know what you are talking about.

Get your facts straight before you blunder in again, Lauren, and make such puerile comments about me.

finti
Well as I stated earlier, personally I give the nod to Yoda, mainly cause of fansy moves and speed, but that is a personal view and people must be allowed to see it othervwise than my views.
Dooku needed to get away with the DS plans, he clearly saw the importance of those plans and he had to distract Yoda to get away. He played on Yodas compasion for his fellow Jedi and his padawan and he gambled right. He runs straight onboard his ship not even looking back and for what Dooku knew a bunch of Jedis might have been right outside the hangar ready to aid Yoda in his battle.
He needed to get away.

yerssot
I thought he entered his ship than looked back to Yoda?

finti
eh it is a kind of expression Yers

yerssot
I was just wondering if I remember it correctly

finti
and you made me a bit unsure about it too, I think you are right when he cast a quick peek over his shoulder, but with all intension of continue escaping though

yerssot
yes, of course continuing the escape, I was just thinking if he did the looking back or not

finti
damn I saw it for the 5th time only yesterday, now I have to find time to see it again just to look for that moment

yerssot
you don't like watching AOTC again?

finti
Its just it is so damn hard to find the time for it now sad

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