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Setting-Death Valley California

JLA/Avengers win.

cosmic cube are you insane? do you even know who lucifer morningstar is, the guy made his own universe then threatend all the immortals to get out or deal with him, he changed the rules of the universe once just to defeat an enemy, he defeated gods when he was powerless, even DC death was scared and he was nearly powerful, he destroyed the house of secrets i think, and you think JLA and Avengers win?

Mider, please define "sarcasm".

just to even it up add silver surferand galactus

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
just to even it up add silver surferand galactus
Hahaha.

You puny human.

Originally posted by Mider
cosmic cube are you insane? do you even know who lucifer morningstar is, the guy made his own universe... blah bah blah
Franklin Richards can do that.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Hahaha.

You puny human. who wins

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Franklin Richards can do that. nu uh

Lucifer completely kicks the crap outta them no contest. Lucifer 10/10.

along with galactus add all of his heralds,the pheonix,x-men,hulk,thanos
now is it even???

Lucifer slams them all.

Originally posted by grey fox
Lucifer slams them all. But in classic beyonder and Lucifer bites the dust.

Give Thanos the HOTU

Beyonder can create galaxies with a thought.

Lucifer can create entire multiverses, Creation itself, with a glance.



No comparision.

Lucifer vs Beyonder then..........

Actually no that claim was disproven before. And actually he can. Ask Mr. Master, hes was going crazy over this with posts not too long ago.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Actually no that claim was disproven before. And actually he can. Ask Mr. Master, hes was going crazy over this with posts not too long ago.

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
Lucifer vs Beyonder then..........

Beyonder was ret-conned, so....... Lucifer wins.

Originally posted by batdude123
Beyonder was ret-conned, so....... Lucifer wins.
Humor me at that point in time Beyonder wins

Originally posted by batdude123
Beyonder was ret-conned, so....... Lucifer wins. explain.... how long does the fight last

Originally posted by e.l,m,t,i,(r k)
explain.... how long does the fight last

Well, the Beyonder of NOW would last maybe, hmm................. a couple seconds.

Dude just for Beyonder being in the marvel Multiverse, he destroyed galaxies for just being there. There have been post shown that he is millions of times more powerful than the multiverse. Lucifer could not create a multiverse on his own, he needed help. But after the retcon he was reduced REAALy significantly so now he would not be a challenge. By the writers original beyonder was unbeatable.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Dude just for Beyonder being in the marvel Multiverse, he destroyed galaxies for just being there. There have been post shown that he is millions of times more powerful than the multiverse. Lucifer could not create a multiverse on his own, he needed help. But after the retcon he was reduced REAALy significantly so now he would not be a challenge

Yes, but Pre-retconned Beyonder didn't face the likes of the Living Tribunal, the Phoenix, or TOAA now did he? All three of those beings are beyond the Marvel Multiverse as well.

Originally posted by batdude123
Yes, but Pre-retconned Beyonder didn't face the likes of the Living Tribunal, the Phoenix, or TOAA now did he? All three of those beings are beyond the Marvel Multiverse as well. But millions of times beyond the Multiverse, thats really a stretch Batdude considering when Thanos had the Hotu Lt was taken down and Phoenix was no where in site.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
But millions of times beyond the Multiverse, thats really a stretch Batdude considering when Thanos had the Hotu Lt was taken down and Phoenix was no where in site.

By presentation alone Pre ret Beyonder was certainly the most powerful in his time. But Phoenix has since been presented as more powerful and has more impressive feats in addition. The Phoenix Force spawns the multiverse, not the other way around so even if the debatably hyperbolic million times greater line was taken as fact it would change nothing as the multiverse is a creation. The Phoenix stems from the White Hot Room which itself is outside of and overlooks all of creation, including the Beyond Realm.

Originally posted by batdude123
By presentation alone Pre ret Beyonder was certainly the most powerful in his time. But Phoenix has since been presented as more powerful and has more impressive feats in addition. The Phoenix Force spawns the multiverse, not the other way around so even if the debatably hyperbolic million times greater line was taken as fact it would change nothing as the multiverse is a creation. The Phoenix stems from the White Hot Room which itself is outside of and overlooks all of creation, including the Beyond Realm. Yes but beyonder his another said to be beyond creation. According to the comic he always was and according to the writers he was unstoppable. But anyway, I have seen dudes tear there eyes out over this topic, I really dont want another see another 40 pages on this so I will say Lucifer beats the JLA/Avengers

Originally posted by batdude123
By presentation alone Pre ret Beyonder was certainly the most powerful in his time. But Phoenix has since been presented as more powerful and has more impressive feats in addition. The Phoenix Force spawns the multiverse, not the other way around so even if the debatably hyperbolic million times greater line was taken as fact it would change nothing as the multiverse is a creation. The Phoenix stems from the White Hot Room which itself is outside of and overlooks all of creation, including the Beyond Realm. I also have a question pertaining to something you told me, you said that the source is how the DCU sees Yaweh but in the X-men/ Teen Titans comic it stated the PF as a equl to the source. Thats really confusing.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Yes but beyonder his another said to be beyond creation. According to the comic he always was and according to the writers he was unstoppable. But anyway, I have seen dudes tear there eyes out over this topic, I really dont want another see another 40 pages on this so I will say Lucifer beats the JLA/Avengers

Thank you.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I also have a question pertaining to something you told me, you said that the source is how the DCU sees Yaweh but in the X-men/ Teen Titans comic it stated the PF as a equl to the source. Thats really confusing.

However, as a whole she is not as great in power as the Presence is.

Yeah because GS posted a comic saying she is only second to God. Now comes to the question of whether they mean the being who LT represents or if it is someone else.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Yeah because GS posted a comic saying she is only second to God. Now comes to the question of whether they mean the being who LT represents or if it is someone else.

Hmmm.... interesting.

Originally posted by batdude123
Hmmm.... interesting. Heres the kicker, Mr. Master posted another that said that Beyonder is the most powerful being with MM as second.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Heres the kicker, Mr. Master posted another that said that Beyonder is the most powerful being with MM as second.

problem i've always had with this argument is that cosmics are viewed differently nowadays. for his time he WAS awesome. how would he fare in a universe rampant with characters who can destroy universes at the drop of a hat? hard to tell . . .

TOAA would defeat him, IF he's as powerful as the presance IMO, the phoenix well isnt lucifer was the phoenix is him and his brother

damn i type bad didnt lucifer and his brother do the role of the PF in creating the multiverse is what i was trying to say.

Originally posted by Mider
damn i type bad didnt lucifer and his brother do the role of the PF in creating the multiverse is what i was trying to say. Yeah but the marvel continuity presents a problem because the feats of the Beyonder were retconned so its hard placing his classic persona in a hierarchy know.

what is this thread, does the guy hate lucifer morningstar, first jla avengers, then this and that, he'd lose if he had to fight the freaking TOAA and pheonix and classic beyonder all at once, beyonder alone might smack him down by himself so would TOAA, and someone said lucifer can make multiverses if thats true then he might defeat or only stalemate the Pheonix

Originally posted by Mider
what is this thread, does the guy hate lucifer morningstar, first jla avengers, then this and that, he'd lose if he had to fight the freaking TOAA and pheonix and classic beyonder all at once, beyonder alone might smack him down by himself so would TOAA, and someone said lucifer can make multiverses if thats true then he might defeat or only stalemate the Pheonix They were really only placing half truths. He needed michaels help.

he'd lose against the PF then, and against beyonder for sure and TOAA thats not a shame though who wouldnt?