Magneto: The Debate

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Vinny Valentine
Here is a really simple thing for everyone to try and answer.


Is Magneto Actually a Villain? Or Is he More of a Good Guy?

Think about it, hes not fighting for world domination or conquest. He's fighting for Mutant rights, in a more military way. He just wants mutants to be respected and not feared or hated.

So Is He Really a Villain?

Jury
Magneto's creator described him as "villain". What's debatable with that?

gambit12

His end may sound good... but how about the means? How can you justify everything Magneto has ever done since start?

The Unknown
In the original comics, he is definitely a villain, but not so much from what I've seen in the newer comics.

Vinny Valentine
I don't think he is, he seems more for going for a cause.

Pyro Tyrannus
If anything Magneto is an Anti-Hero. The best kind of hero. . .

Jury
Originally posted by Vinny Valentine
I don't think he is, he seems more for going for a cause. Whatever his intention is as long as his actions are villanous such as:

... he's still a villain.

gambit12

Jury
As long as the harmony of humans and mutants is concerned.

Jury
If he is not villain, why is he so antagonistic in Charles' dream of human-mutant harmony?

Pyro Tyrannus
Originally posted by Jury
Whatever his intention is as long as his actions are villanous such as:

... he's still a villain.

gambit12
Originally posted by Jury
As long as the harmony of humans and mutants is concerned.
Originally posted by Jury
If he is not villain, why is he so antagonistic in Charles' dream of human-mutant harmony?

Dude compile on answer.

Jury
gambit12

Vinny Valentine
Originally posted by Jury
If he is not villain, why is he so antagonistic in Charles' dream of human-mutant harmony?

Because there are Mutants that want to be human, and do apreciated there gift.

DragonWoman
He's not a villian, it's just how he's portrayed (in a negative light)...I consider him one of the good guys

Jury
Originally posted by Vinny Valentine
Because there are Mutants that want to be human, and do apreciated there gift. So what's wrong with that?

Kal875
He's fighting for what HE thinks is right. He does not care about non-mutants. He blames them all for the actions of a few. Just like the non-mutants do

Jury
Originally posted by Kal875
He's fighting for what HE thinks is right. He does not care about non-mutants. He blames them all for the actions of a few. Just like the non-mutants do So he is villain or not? gambit12

Kal875
depends on whos point of veiw you look @ it from.

The real question should be, Is Magneto's actions just?

superbatman86
Before the House of M I would say he wants the best but after killing his own son he just got pushed into the villian area.

Jury
So, he's a villain, indeed. gambit12

Jury
He is villain.

NoFate007
I'd label him as an Anti-Hero. He does villainous acts, yes, but in his eyes he's doing what he thinks is best and not just want he wants. If Magneto were a strict villain, I think he would want to conquer everything and be thought of as a god, rather than focusing so much on mutant brotherhood and such. He doesn't think as much about the human race as he does for the mutants, but I don't think Magneto would want to kill all humans - I think he kills as a scare tactic. Plus there have been times when he supports Charles and doesn't just try to turn something into a brawl. Now someone like Apocalypse is definitely a villain, but Magneto I think is an Anti-Hero.

UltimateStryfe
His motives are heroic. i consider him second to Apocalypse as savior of the mutant race. but, his methods are certainly villainous evil face
Magneto, better than anyone else, understands what it is like to be persecuted because of one's race. He was a Jew and was nearly killed by the Nazis, his family and friends were. And he knows that if nothing is done, the humans will do the same to mutants. Look how Bishop's future turned out. Look what was going on in Cable's future. Days of Future Past. Days of Future Now. Magneto is right. The extreme need calls for extreme measures. He is a hero for the mutant. He is a villain to the human and pacifist.

"There's only one question you must answer: Who will you stand with?"

I stand with Magneto!

Jury
No matter how you justify Magneto, the FACT remains that he is a VILLAIN. gambit12

UltimateStryfe
i am not arguing that. so you can stop saying it.

roughrider
Originally posted by Jury
No matter how you justify Magneto, the FACT remains that he is a VILLAIN. gambit12

If he's a villain, why is Charles Xavier still his friend?

Xavier considers him too misguided and dangerous sometimes, but understands Erik's motives are for the good of mutants. It's the tactics sometimes; it puts them at odds.

Jury
Originally posted by roughrider
If he's a villain, why is Charles Xavier still his friend?
Or OLD friend?
Originally posted by roughrider
Xavier considers him too misguided and dangerous sometimes, but understands Erik's motives are for the good of mutants. It's the tactics sometimes; it puts them at odds.
So what's good in there if somebody gets hurt?

gambit12

Britrogue
Interesting question. The one word which describes Magneto totally is misguided. He is in his own way a good person who wants what is best for his people and wants to protect them from what he has endured in his life. Unfortunately, he tends to choose the more violent path to get what he wants.

UltimateStryfe
he knows that his enemies respond to violence.

roughrider
Originally posted by Jury
Or OLD friend?

So what's good in there if somebody gets hurt?

gambit12

Instead of aggressive action, you can choose to do nothing and people will still get hurt. During the Fall Of The Mutants, mutants were still getting killed, no matter how much the X-Men wanted to keep things calm.

UltimateStryfe
when mutants attack, the government and others prepare to fight them. when the x-men do their peaceful co-existence thing, the government and others are still preparing to fight them. it make's no difference.

Magneto wants results.

Vinny Valentine
Originally posted by UltimateStryfe
when mutants attack, the government and others prepare to fight them. when the x-men do their peaceful co-existence thing, the government and others are still preparing to fight them. it make's no difference.

Magneto wants results.

Jury
And still appears VILLAIN.

gambit12

roughrider
Originally posted by Jury
And still appears VILLAIN.

gambit12

Just like the X-Men 'appear' to be menaces to society, by the media.

People need to look beyond the surface. As far as Magneto, there is a difference between sympathizing with him, and empathizing.

Jury
At least, the X-Men has NO INTENTION of hurting people. Get the difference?

Magneto, on the other hand, doesn't care for humanity. He does whatever he likes for the sake of mutants. He doesn't care whether he kill people or not.

gambit12 mon ami

roughrider
Originally posted by Jury
At least, the X-Men has NO INTENTION of hurting people. Get the difference?

Magneto, on the other hand, doesn't care for humanity. He does whatever he likes for the sake of mutants. He doesn't care whether he kill people or not.

gambit12 mon ami

That's the difference between sympathy and empathy. I have empathy for Magneto - meaning I may not agree with him and his actions, but I understand why he feels like he does.

He is willing to kill regular people to get what he wants - the safety of mutants - becuase there have long been orginized groups of humans in the world, willing to commit genocide on mutantkind just because they are 'different.' Magneto quite often resists calls to pull back on his agression, becuase such people try to kill mutants anyway, peaceful or not. Being scarred long ago by the Nazi Holocaust, he is not easily talked out of such a world view.
Remember, there was a time before he was championed, when Malcolm X was considered a hate-monger who referred to the entire white race as 'white devils' because of the sins of history.
I hope Magneto can one day learn not to meet hate with agression and terror tactics; he was coming to that when he had a safe haven for mutantkind in Genosha. But then the outside world came in with that rogue sentinal and nuked Genosha, so the cycle will continue.

Just think: on both sides of the Israel/Palestine conflict, the other side is demonized as villans.

HellMaster93
Good debate... in my view, yes, I cannpt AGREE with what Magneto does, he would kill everyone I know, normal people, but his motives aren't to cause pain, suffering or chaos, he just wants HARMONY for his kind...

x-fetish
he's kind of a cross between both. he seeks peace for mutants but will do the bad deeds to get it

Jury
And that is what I mean VILLAIN.

End does not justify the means. At least, for me. No matter how good your goal is, yet you do evil in order to reach it, the fact remains that he does evil intentionally. And that what makes Magneto a villain.

Just like a robber, he used to steal things so his family could eat. In the sight of everyone, what he did was still injustice... and villainous.

gambit12 mon ami

Vinny Valentine
Bump

Noa
Originally posted by Jury
And that is what I mean VILLAIN.

End does not justify the means. At least, for me. No matter how good your goal is, yet you do evil in order to reach it, the fact remains that he does evil intentionally. And that what makes Magneto a villain.

Just like a robber, he used to steal things so his family could eat. In the sight of everyone, what he did was still injustice... and villainous.

gambit12 mon ami


Amen.


Sorry joining the discussion late. But here is my two-cents

Maggi is a villain, I'm in agreement with most of the points that jury has brought up. Because it really comes down to what is right and wrong, the actions magneto makes are wrong because the price is to high to pay to achieve his goal. Whereas the x-men misconstrued as evil, however their goal is a just one.

Sabretooth
Magneto an anti-hero? Don't make me laugh. The Punisher is an anti-hero. The difference? The Punisher doesn't target innocents. Magneto is no better than a common terrorist, who also think hurting innocents is okay as long as it's for a good cause. If Magneto only focused on tactical targets such as military installations it would be different, but that's not how he does things now is it?

UltimateStryfe
he's sort of a nationalist. uniting all mutants.

Vinny Valentine
True.

superbatman86
HE KILLED HIS OWN SON.Villian Period.There's no excuse what so ever for this.It wasn't for the greater good he did it because he was pissed.

pr1983
Originally posted by Vinny Valentine
Here is a really simple thing for everyone to try and answer.


Is Magneto Actually a Villain? Or Is he More of a Good Guy?

Think about it, hes not fighting for world domination or conquest. He's fighting for Mutant rights, in a more military way. He just wants mutants to be respected and not feared or hated.

So Is He Really a Villain?

The means with which he attempts to reach his goals make him a villain imo...

He has seen mankind at its worst, and his insistence at stopping history repeating itself is admirable, but again, its his methods that make him the bad guy in my view...

If his best friend realises the need to stop him, then surely that says something about him...

He is a complex character though, and the best thing about villains is when you can identify with their reasons and motivations, and at times even like them...

Regardless, if Magneto was told tomorrow that the only way to assure Mutant superiority was to kill the x-men, xavier and alot of humans, i don't think he'd hesitate for a second...

Jury
Originally posted by UltimateStryfe
he's sort of a nationalist. uniting all mutants.
And hurting humans.

gambit12 mon ami

Jury
Originally posted by pr1983
The means with which he attempts to reach his goals make him a villain imo...

He has seen mankind at its worst, and his insistence at stopping history repeating itself is admirable, but again, its his methods that make him the bad guy in my view...

If his best friend realises the need to stop him, then surely that says something about him...

He is a complex character though, and the best thing about villains is when you can identify with their reasons and motivations, and at times even like them...

Regardless, if Magneto was told tomorrow that the only way to assure Mutant superiority was to kill the x-men, xavier and alot of humans, i don't think he'd hesitate for a second...
To add, thinking that Mutants should be superior over humans makes Magneto a VILLAIN.

Good point, paul.

Nice tuh see yah again...
gambit12 mon ami

Doc Ock
Magneto is only fighting for the survival of his own kind.

It's just his methods of doing it are wrong. He's ruthless, but his intentions are for the good of mutants.

But you really cannot justify murder. So yes he is a villain.

Jury
Originally posted by Doc Ock
Magneto is only fighting for the survival of his own kind.

It's just his methods of doing it are wrong. He's ruthless, but his intentions are for the good of mutants.

But you really cannot justify murder. So yes he is a villain.
As what everybody says... yet, because of that, he becomes a VILLAIN.

gambit12 mon ami

Kaos sebaceous
he just wants all the humans dead but really whats wrong with that there gonna die anyway its evolution

HellMaster93
He's a terrorist. If you ask me, its not the terrorists often that are evil. They are mislead and crap by the evil guys and suffer hatred and horrors. They lash out to defend themsekves and fight for their beliefs. I cannot condone terrorism, but i can understand it, and even empathise with it.

Vinny Valentine
I still this hes awsome, haha.

pr1983
Originally posted by Jury
To add, thinking that Mutants should be superior over humans makes Magneto a VILLAIN.

Good point, paul.

Nice tuh see yah again...
gambit12 mon ami

Merci beaucoup... and good to see you too... big grin

Vinny Valentine
He Has joined forces with X-Men on countless occasions.

Jury
Because he runs out of choice sometimes, he sees them as advantage in his evil intentions.

gambit12 mon ami

quiqueg34
Good intentions mean sh##. This is what Hitler thought he was doing. Way to much to discuss so I'll leave it as, "an extremely misguided super-villan."

K3VIL
Magneto fights and his reasons are understandable.
We live in a world where having not-white skin is still considered a problem or something wrong from most of the people, some of them are just sufficiently smart to avoid saying it.
Think about a world where from one day to another young and not young people show superhuman powers, phase shifting, superstrength, flight, energy manipulation and so.
Probably the reactions would make Hitler looking like a pacifist.

UltimateStryfe
exactly. there will never be peace.

it is a historical fact that sharing the world has never been man's greatest strength. Xavier said it himself.

pr1983
Originally posted by UltimateStryfe
exactly. there will never be peace.

it is a historical fact that sharing the world has never been man's greatest strength. Xavier said it himself.

Doesn't mean you stop trying... wiping mankind out may work, but its not exactly something a good guy would do is it? stick out tongue

UltimateStryfe
absolutely not.

House of M worked out fine. but just for mutants. the hate goes both ways. It just as easily could of been Magneto was a human in a House of M type world.

a villain CAN do what is best. he is just a villain cause the X-Men are the heroes. Look at Days of Future Now. He was the savior of mutants in the world he saw coming. And all the mutants knew it. Wolverine admitted that they needed him.

Jury
Precisely. He is the VILLAIN. At least for humankind.


gambit12 mon ami

pr1983
Originally posted by UltimateStryfe
absolutely not.

House of M worked out fine. but just for mutants. the hate goes both ways. It just as easily could of been Magneto was a human in a House of M type world.

a villain CAN do what is best. he is just a villain cause the X-Men are the heroes. Look at Days of Future Now. He was the savior of mutants in the world he saw coming. And all the mutants knew it. Wolverine admitted that they needed him.

thats only one possible future though isn't it?

Omega-level
He's a villain. A villain who is not one-dimensional, who has a point, and most of the time is not completely wrong, but it's a villain because his means are unacceptable (destroy all mankind), and he puts himself as morally superior to humans, but doing the same as the worse of them. And it's not like he's altruistic, he really wants to rule the mutants. But he's not actually a bad person, who would kill and torture just for the heck of it, like Sabretooth, he honestly believes he's right.

Jury
Yeah, he's a villain. yes

Sabretooth
Originally posted by K3VIL
Magneto fights and his reasons are understandable.
We live in a world where having not-white skin is still considered a problem or something wrong from most of the people, some of them are just sufficiently smart to avoid saying it.
Think about a world where from one day to another young and not young people show superhuman powers, phase shifting, superstrength, flight, energy manipulation and so.
Probably the reactions would make Hitler looking like a pacifist.

We also live in a world where targeting innocent people to accomplish your goals is something the bad guys do. We're not talking about a few innocents dying because a military target was hit, we're talking about killing harmless people just to get your point across. Sounds like a villain to me.

Jury
Originally posted by Sabretooth
We also live in a world where targeting innocent people to accomplish your goals is something the bad guys do. We're not talking about a few innocents dying because a military target was hit, we're talking about killing harmless people just to get your point across. Sounds like a villain to me. yes


gambit12 mon ami

Paola
Originally posted by Sabretooth
We also live in a world where targeting innocent people to accomplish your goals is something the bad guys do. We're not talking about a few innocents dying because a military target was hit, we're talking about killing harmless people just to get your point across. Sounds like a villain to me.

wow this sounds like some president of some country.... hmm

Sabretooth
Originally posted by Paola
wow this sounds like some president of some country.... hmm

pffft. Whatever. Can we please try to keep this on topic before I stupidly say something that's going to get me banned? I'll be happy to discuss our differing points on global politics either privately or in a "random" room if you would like...

Paola
nah, I'm not interested in politics nor you get banned or not

point is Magneto is considered a villain by some and a hero or a wise man for others, it depends on how you look at him...

Omega-level
I'm not saying they are in the same level, because they are not, but the same can be said about Hitler or Osama Bin Laden...

Alfheim
Im not sure what to say really. I really dont blame him for behaving the way he does. See it from his point of view..... his parents were killed by humans who thought his parents were humans.

This is what Magento is thinking, if human beings try to exterminate each other how the **** are they going to let mutants live in peace? That is a valid point.

Imagine your a human living in the Marvel Universe. What would you think? Should you be scared? Yeah you should, even if mutants are not evil depending on what there powers are the chances are they maybe superior to you in alot of ways.

So if your a human living in the marvel universe you had better get yourself some super powers.

Captain_WV
Originally posted by Omega-level
I'm not saying they are in the same level, because they are not, but the same can be said about Hitler or Osama Bin Laden...

Speaking of the Nazi, Magneto grew up in Nazi Germany, he saw first hand what it was like to be abused for you birth, be it mutant or Jewish, i dont think Magneto wants or wanted his ppl , the mutants, from becoming that next set of jews, is it wrong to want to protect YOUR ppl at the cost of possible future agressors?

B dot Rob
Magneto isn't anymore of a villain then Wolverine is (IMO for the dumb). evil face

Bicnarok
causing chaos, attacking folk doing what is not in the majorities interest is rather villianous or not?

PhoenixPhury14
It's a interesting question,yes.

But sadly,he is a villain.

He does want what's best for mutants...BUT,he's willing to do anything to get it,including killing innocent people.

Vinny Valentine
Originally posted by PhoenixPhury14
It's a interesting question,yes.

But sadly,he is a villain.

He does want what's best for mutants...BUT,he's willing to do anything to get it,including killing innocent people.

Some people would ldo the same and not be labeled a Villian.

PhoenixPhury14
Everyone has different ideas of what a villain is,my opinion is that Magneto may not be as pure evil as some of the other villains,but he could in fact be labled as a villain.

UltimateStryfe
"Some of the worst things immagineable have been done with the best intentions."

-Allen Grant, Jurasic Park III

'sup guys. good to be back

ExodusCloak
I think it depends on whose point of view you look at it from....I mean in the end it's war between mutants and humanity....there is no right or wrong in war...no heroes or villians...just loss...and death....

So now that I think about it...I may not agree with his ethos but I wouldn't consider him a villian...maybe that's why in Secret Wars he was placed on the heroes side...

Depends on the writer...

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