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The Joker gets five days to cook up some plan for Gotham City. Spider-man is unaware of anything that is going on. Once Joker's plan is unleashed, all of Gotham is in panick. Out of the blue, Spider-man suits up and decides to go on the prowl. (Batman is on vacation ) Spider-man had no previous knowledge of who Joker is, and what his plans are. However, Joker has known about Spider-man the whole five days he was prepping. Can Spider-man save all of Gotham and put Joker behind bars?

Intersting, I think The Joker will win.

nice but i say (if this is latest spidey) spidey kiks his but and throws hi in jail
if not spidey iz over

batdude were supposed to be able to defend out teams people, i say spidey takes it

Originally posted by A.J
batdude were supposed to be able to defend out teams people, i say spidey takes it

What? Hellmaster93 is a reserve member who represents Joker.

Anyways Spider-man have alrady defeated the joker ( nad it was very eas)

Joker wins....he has way too many deadly tricks under his sleeves. Not even spider-sense will be able to respond on time. Joker is too dangerous.

Originally posted by batdude123
What? Hellmaster93 is a reserve member who represents Joker. Yeah but you want people to agree with you dont you that is from your team

and nick is away for ahwile so he cant do jack

Joker is an overrated skinny man who should be dead a long time ago. Spider-Man is one of the top heroes in the Marvel Universe for a reason.

Anybody who thinks Joker will win, is fooling himself. I have no problem admitting that the Joker with prep time will give Spider-Man a run for his money, but Spider-Man has faced much greater challenges than "the Joker."

Spiderman wins he had done it in this comic book

Originally posted by magneto1992
Spiderman wins he had done it in this comic book I have half of that book i need the rest of them can somone scan them for me, or at leats joker vs spidey

Current spidey?

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Current spidey?

Does it realy matter?

Spider-Man possesses superhuman strength, reflexes and equilibrium; the ability to cling to most surfaces; and a sixth sense that warns him of impending danger. this are spiders powers and jokers are:The Joker commits crimes with countless "comedic" weapons (such as razor-sharp playing cards, acid-spewing flowers, cyanide pies, and lethally electric joy buzzers) and Joker venom, a deadly poison that infects his victims with a ghoulish rictus grin as they die while laughing uncontrollably,. but can nothing all this can hurt spiderman? remeber how the spidermans agility and spider sense work ( You can see it in the first movie Spiderman Vrs Flash tompson) are like if anything that joker launch go very slow and spiderman and can easily scape from it

If Spider-Man doesn't know who Joker is;

Spider-Man never encounters him. Depending on the mood Joker was in when he made his plan, Spider-Man either stops his plan without capturing Joker, or fails at stopping the plan and doesn't catch Joker.

This thread has been made before, with someone saying Joker gets prep and spidey doesn't. When I asked why spidey had no prep, they just shouted at me. cry

yeah you all fail to know the skills of joker, he does amazing things with prep time even outsmarting lex luthor many times, like when he knew how to use the philosophy stone even when lex spent a while trying to figure it out, he was to insane even for the spectre, he has outpreped slade, escaped a super maxi maxi prision and then created something that almost killed the world, the thing is how far is he willing to go to kill someone if he went all out like in jokers last laugh he would kill spiderman but usually i guess he doesnt go all out since he kinda lives to torment batman and if he died there would no longer be a purpose for him to exist.

This is patetic Joker lose and yes they have encounter each other you morons and Spiderman is best thats it and no not because I like him because is obus he is better with the Spider sense

so what slade has precog and he still got beaten down for a moment cause joker had prep, and all those major heros who made spiderman look likea joke still had probs with the joker.

Originally posted by magneto1992
This is patetic Joker lose and yes they have encounter each other you morons and Spiderman is best thats it and no not because I like him because is obus he is better with the Spider sense Morons........you are the moron by calling people them

Might be a good challenge since spidey doesnt know whats going on.
Spidey in no moron. He is one of the smartest heroes around. And yes he has beaten greater/smarter foes before. He has had mad men throw explosives/projectiles at him before. It wont be nothing new. He wont get snuck up on(spidey sense).
I mean hes taken on the Sinister 6, frightfull four, ect.
Joker would NOT be more of a threat than that.
Spidey wins. 8,9/10

Originally posted by who?-kid
Joker is an overrated skinny man who should be dead a long time ago. Spider-Man is one of the top heroes in the Marvel Universe for a reason.

Anybody who thinks Joker will win, is fooling himself. I have no problem admitting that the Joker with prep time will give Spider-Man a run for his money, but Spider-Man has faced much greater challenges than "the Joker." Joker is no more over rated than batman is....and if joker 5 days to setup a solid plan i thank he can take it 7/10

Originally posted by Inhuman
Might be a good challenge since spidey doesnt know whats going on.
Spidey in no moron. He is one of the smartest heroes around. And yes he has beaten greater/smarter foes before. He has had mad men throw explosives/projectiles at him before. It wont be nothing new. He wont get snuck up on(spidey sense).
I mean hes taken on the Sinister 6, frightfull four, ect.
Joker would NOT be more of a threat than that.
Spidey wins. 8,9/10

Co-signed.

...JOKER WOULDN'T EVER ENCOUNTER SPIDER-MAN.

Simply, hes smart enough to know that if he entered the same area as Spider-Man, he'd go down. So he'd set up a plan which didn't require him to be there.

This ISN'T a slugfest between the two.

Some SERIOUS underestimation of the Joker going on here.

Originally posted by Private Pion
...JOKER WOULDN'T EVER ENCOUNTER SPIDER-MAN.

Simply, hes smart enough to know that if he entered the same area as Spider-Man, he'd go down. So he'd set up a plan which didn't require him to be there.

This ISN'T a slugfest between the two.

If batman can take out joker, it wont be that much of a challenge for spidey to do it.
Spidey>Batman>Joker
Like I said Spidey has taken on Evil planning before. (Doc ock>Jokes) Nothing new for him.

Originally posted by Inhuman
If batman can take out joker, it wont be that much of a challenge for spidey to do it.
Spidey>Batman>Joker
Like I said Spidey has taken on Evil planning before. (Doc ock>Jokes)

Not really. Joker is every bit Batman's equal in terms of intelligence. He might even be smarter than Batman. The guy is synical, relentless, and just an all around nut job. Batman has to defeat Joker because there has to be a contrast between good and evil. Joker has outsmarted Lex Luthor before, and has held the world ransom God knows how many times. He is a serious threat, and Batman of course beats him in a physical h2h match, but if Batman didn't have any idea of what Joker was up to? Man, Joker is SEVERLY underestimated here, especially considering Joker has FIVE days of prep, and Spider-man has no clue what Joker is about. Batman has experience as to how Joker's mind works, Spidey doesn't. HELL NO Doc Ock is smarter than Joker. This is what I mean by severe underestimation of the Joker going on here. With prep, Joker takes over Gotham, and Spider-man is unable to take him to jail.

Originally posted by batdude123
Some SERIOUS underestimation of the Joker going on here.

Agree.

I dont think Spidey would take Joker as a threat. At least not before the Spidey sanse goes off. Like Pion said, this isnt a slugfest and Joker is highly intelligent as well.

I am leading more towards Spiderman though slightly.

Joker just sets up a plan which goes through the motions while he sips iced mocas in California.

Its the sort of thing he'd do.

Originally posted by Private Pion
Joker just sets up a plan which goes through the motions while he sips iced mocas in California.

Its the sort of thing he'd do.

Exactly. This isn't a h2h fight between the two. Joker has been planning for five days.

Explain how Joker would beat spiderman?

Joker's plan (Because this thread is about THAT, not a fight between the two) would be too much for Spider-Man, and he'd have escaped justice.


Thats how.

However, if Spider-man did have in mind what Joker was up to, he would thwart Joker's plans. Although, Spider-man doesn't have any idea what the Joker would be up to. That's what makes Joker so dangerous. Batman knows exactly how Joker's mind works because he has delt with that crazy lunatic more times than I can count. Spider-man just doesn't have the luxury of being experienced with Joker's plans. When Batman has time to study what the Joker is up to, that's when he rocks him. However, give Batman prep and Joker none, it would be the same situation. Wow...... off topic.

Spiderman has only dealt with calm well demenored villains?
come on. Now Spideys villains are being underestimated here.

Originally posted by Private Pion
Joker's plan (Because this thread is about THAT, not a fight between the two) would be too much for Spider-Man, and he'd have escaped justice.


Thats how.

That's the thing I always HATE about prep on this site. "How would batman beat out the Phoenix force, even WITH two days prep?"

"He's Batman. He'll have a plan."


Look at the Joker's past plans, all the evidence that is in the comics, and tell me what sort of thing he would set up that would manage to take out Spiderman.

MAYBE he'll be able to escape, since Parker isn't much of a detective, but I don't see Peter not stopping the plan. Gas? Spider man's mask filters it out. Explosives? Yeah...those ALWAYS work against Spiderman. Razor-sharp playing cards? Not unless you're bullseye, AND spiderman is tied up.

Meh. I don't see what the Joker will do to put Spiderman down. Will Spiderman necessarily CATCH him? Maybe, maybe not, but the Joker sure as hell won't be able to kill him.

Sounds like an old fasioned comicbook story. Joker will kidnap somebody. Spider-man will find him, kick some asses and save the day.

Originally posted by batdude123
Exactly. This isn't a h2h fight between the two. Joker has been planning for five days.

The people who say Joker is overrated are clueless....Spiderman is far more overrated. "OOh-OooH he can shoot web and trap his enemies lolololol"

First and foremost...Joker is a chemist...It won't take long to for him to figure the formula which PP uses on his web. Thus web is useless in the attack. If you then go with "speed and and strength" is even worse. Joker would NEVER take on superhero...he is way too aware of this...setting up a trap and catching Spidey is how the Joker works. Also I hope you guys don't come with "oh! Spidey won't be fool so easily" That's just ludicrous. He's been trapped too many times in the past. So is lights out for the web slinger.

sam seeing as your not understanding on icq brb means be right back ok

oh and spidey 7/10

Originally posted by Soljer
That's the thing I always HATE about prep on this site. "How would batman beat out the Phoenix force, even WITH two days prep?"

"He's Batman. He'll have a plan."


Look at the Joker's past plans, all the evidence that is in the comics, and tell me what sort of thing he would set up that would manage to take out Spiderman.

MAYBE he'll be able to escape, since Parker isn't much of a detective, but I don't see Peter not stopping the plan. Gas? Spider man's mask filters it out. Explosives? Yeah...those ALWAYS work against Spiderman. Razor-sharp playing cards? Not unless you're bullseye, AND spiderman is tied up.

Meh. I don't see what the Joker will do to put Spiderman down. Will Spiderman necessarily CATCH him? Maybe, maybe not, but the Joker sure as hell won't be able to kill him.

Who said anything about the plan being specifcally about killing Spider-man?

Joker makes a giant explosive in the shape of a balloon animal, launches it from the edge of Gotham heading towards the center. And thus, Spider-Man would have to stop it, while goons hired by Joker worked to stop him, while about fifty failsafe devices ALSO cause problems for Spider-Man.

All while Joker watches on live cable, enjoying a back rub.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The people who say Joker is overrated are clueless....Spiderman is far more overrated. "OOh-OooH he can shoot web and trap his enemies lolololol"

First and foremost...Joker is a chemist...It won't take long to for him to figure the formula which PP uses on his web. Thus web is useless in the attack. If you then go with "speed and and strength" is even worse. Joker would NEVER take on superhero...he is way too aware of this...setting up a trap and catching Spidey is how the Joker works. Also I hope you guys don't come with "oh! Spidey won't be fool so easily" That's just ludicrous. He's been trapped too many times in the past. So is lights out for the web slinger.

DAMN STRAIGHT!

Originally posted by Private Pion
Who said anything about the plan being specifcally about killing Spider-man?


Too true, I suppose I WAS being a bit Close-minded as far as Joker's plans might be. Either way, I would still give Spiderman a majority :-/.


Though, it seems everyone is acting like the Joker is a total slouch in H2H combat. He has put Batman on his ass once or twice, and has surprised Batman with his speed. He dominated Batgirl(because she couldn't read him due to his insane nature - but hell, even without being able to read her opponent, Batgirl is a very formidible Martial Artist.)

Then she beat him by telling him that his jokes aren't funny. Heh.

Anyways, not trying to defend the Joker in a hand to hand fight with Spiderman, or even with Batman - but he DEFINITELY isn't the average joe as far as that goes.

Originally posted by Soljer
Too true, I suppose I WAS being a bit Close-minded as far as Joker's plans might be. Either way, I would still give Spiderman a majority :-/.


Though, it seems everyone is acting like the Joker is a total slouch in H2H combat. He has put Batman on his ass once or twice, and has surprised Batman with his speed. He dominated Batgirl(because she couldn't read him due to his insane nature - but hell, even without being able to read her opponent, Batgirl is a very formidible Martial Artist.)

Then she beat him by telling him that his jokes aren't funny. Heh.

Anyways, not trying to defend the Joker in a hand to hand fight with Spiderman, or even with Batman - but he DEFINITELY isn't the average joe as far as that goes.

True, but:

With prep, Joker can come up with a mind control device and have Spidey kill himself.

Originally posted by A.J
sam seeing as your not understanding on icq brb means be right back ok

oh and spidey 7/10

I said i got it. You really had to post this on Spiderman vs Joker thread?

Originally posted by jrodslam
With prep, Joker can come up with a mind control device and have Spidey kill himself.

I say Spider-man stops the plan 6/10 but will not catch Joker for shit unless he wants to be caught.Spider-man can only catch Joker 1/10 2/10 but I'm bing nice with the second one.

Spider-man has face bigger threats than the joker. He has faced opponents on multiple occassions who had one-sided prep against him, which were generally more dangerous than joker and still trumped. This is some joker-friendly board seriously.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Spider-man has face bigger threats than the joker. He has faced opponents on multiple occassions who had one-sided prep against him, which were generally more dangerous than joker and still trumped. This is some joker-friendly board seriously.

I'm glad to see Joker is getting the respect he deserves.

Well, "another man's trash is another man---" kidding

Seriously though, most boards have purged this unwanted Joker love. If it wasn't for the fact that he is such an iconic villain for batman, he would've died decades ago.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Well, "another man's trash is another man---" kidding

Seriously though, most boards have purged this unwanted Joker love. If it wasn't for the fact that he is such an iconic villain for batman, he would've died decades ago.

However, read through all the pages. We've covered this all.

Originally posted by batdude123
However, read through all the pages. We've covered this all.

What do you mean covered all these? You mean all of his appearances I don't think i can do that. Try debating them on other comic forums and those joker stories would badly get shot down.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
What do you mean covered all these? You mean all of his appearances I don't think i can do that. Try debating them on other comic forums and those joker stories would badly get shot down.

No, I mean how Joker would win. You ARE underestimating Joker here. I don't care about other forums, if they do shoot down the "joker stories," then they have no idea what Joker is about and how smart he is.

Really, you have all of the people who voted here saying Joker would win? i'm looking at this thread, and so far, no concensus as of yet.

And for the record, i think it's the other way around. Spider-man has faced repeated threats against opponent who are far smarter and more dangerous than the joker and prevaled against it.

how has joker done aginst others beside batman? And remeber this guy is so smart ra's al ghoul actually wanted his help

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Really, you have all of the people who voted here saying Joker would win? i'm looking at this thread, and so far, no concensus as of yet.

And for the record, i think it's the other way around. Spider-man has faced repeated threats against opponent who are far smarter and more dangerous than the joker and prevaled against it.

Smarter and more dangerous? Like who?

Originally posted by batdude123
Smarter and more dangerous? Like who?

You serious?

-Doc ocktopus= more dangerous, smarter
-Norman Osborn Green Goblin = more dangerous, smarter
-Kingpin= more dangerous and smarter(debatable
-Morbius= more dangerous, smarter


just a few of the top of my head.

Originally posted by batdude123
Smarter and more dangerous? Like who?

Green Goblin, Tracer, Kraven, Dr. Octopus, The Sinister Six(as a whole), Jackal & carrion, the jury, Shatra, etc.

Originally posted by Inhuman
You serious?

-Doc ocktopus= more dangerous, smarter
-Norman Osborn Green Goblin = more dangerous, smarter
-Kingpin= more dangerous and smarter(debatable
-Morbius= more dangerous, smarter


just a few of the top of my head.

OMG. You're not serious, are you? When have any of those guys actually been a MAJOR threat to the ENTIRE world? Smarter, bullsh*t. NONE of those guys are smarter. Joker has outsmarted Slade, Lex Luthor, etc.... Please, you're going to have to do a better job than that. It seems you don't realize what the stipulations of the fight is. Go read the very first post. Kingpin, Morbius, and Norman are smarter.....

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Green Goblin, Tracer, Kraven, Dr. Octopus, The Sinister Six(as a whole), Jackal & carrion, the jury, Shatra, etc.

Read above post.

Originally posted by batdude123
OMG. You're not serious, are you? When have any of those guys actually been a MAJOR threat to the ENTIRE world? Smarter, bullsh*t. NONE of those guys are smarter. Joker has outsmarted Slade, Lex Luthor, etc.... Please, you're going to have to do a better job than that. It seems you don't realize what the stipulations of the fight is. Go read the very first post. Kingpin, Morbius, and Norman are smarter.....

All debatable.
All Joker has going for him is iconic charecter. He would have been dead a long time ago if he wasnt so popular.
Joker is my favorite Batman villain BTW. IMO Riddler,penguin,Joker all fall in the same category: Insane types who of normal human strength who have smarts, and hire henchmen and come up with plans to steal $, give bats a hard time, sometimes other things. DC had to come up with other villians for bats cause those guys werent cutting it any more, and to have more variaty(yes I realize there were other villains too like mr. freeze )
Thats when killer croc ,bane, clay face, ras aghol(sp?), ect came in.
Anyhow I think You are the one making Joker more dangerous than he is. Didnt spidey catch/beat joker real fast in the crossover?

You mean like the time when Norman implanted Aunt may with a global threatening virus that needed Reed to operate on her or orchestrated the clone saga with almost infinite number of clones. Yeah.

Joker is smarter? when did he build an something to tip the odds with batman? when did he gave himself superpowers? when did he threatened the world on his own doing, not just some feat like tricking a CIS-riddled 5d imp, when did he do all of this?

Originally posted by Inhuman
All debatable.

No, he IS smarter than all of those guys.


Originally posted by Inhuman
All Joker has going for him is iconic charecter. He would have been dead a long time ago if he wasnt so popular.

Or how about the fact that he is a genius beyond belief?

Originally posted by Inhuman
Joker is my favorite Batman villain BTW. IMO Riddler,penguin,Joker all fall in the same category: Insane types who of normal human strength who have smarts, and hire henchmen and come up with plans to steal $, give bats a hard time, sometimes other things.

If that's all you think about the Joker, than your perception is off more than I thought.

Originally posted by Inhuman
DC had to come up with other villians for bats cause those guys werent cutting it any more(yes I realize there were other villains too like mr. freeze )
Thats when killer croc ,bane, clay face, ras aghol(sp?), ect came in.
Anyhow I think You are the one making Joker more dangerous than he is.

What's that got to do with anything? It's the same reason why EVERY comic book hero has multiple villains. If it was just a couple of reoccuring villains, they would get boring. I'm not making Joker more dangerous than he is. He has been a global threat numerous times.

Originally posted by Inhuman
Didnt spidey catch/beat joker real fast in the crossover?

Yeah, cross-overs are noncannonical bullsh*t.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
You mean like the time when Norman implanted Aunt may with a global threatening virus that needed Reed to operate on her or orchestrated the clone saga with almost infinite number of clones. Yeah.

Joker is smarter? when did he build an something to tip the odds with batman? when did he gave himself superpowers? when did he threatened the world on his own doing, not just some feat like tricking a CIS-riddled 5d imp, when did he do all of this?

Joker has had the chance to take over the world numerous times. Not only that, he has also outsmarted Lex Luthor and has beaten Superman, Wonder Woman, Slade, etc. with prep time. There is a reason why people like Ra's Al Guhl and Lex Luthor have wanted to team up with the Joker. They respect his intellect. If you would read more Joker, you would understand what he is about more. Besides, you are making it seem like this is a one on one mono y mono h2h fight or something. Check the stipulations I posted on the first page.

The Joker is just a plain psycho with a clown motiff. Him being smarter than Ra's Al Ghul or Luthor doesnt make sense. Him being more dangerous than Ra's Al Ghul or Luthor doesnt make sense. Him owning the League and jokerizing aliens and magical beings doesnt make sense. Him getting all this ridiculous, random power-ups doesnt make sense.

Him being pimped to be incredibly smart and dangerous to sell comics not just for Batman-related titles but for the rest of DCU because he is the most popular DC villain, now THIS MAKE SENSE.

Spider-man would beat him.

Joker got power-ups?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Joker got power-ups?

Referring to 5-D imps power.

Originally posted by Templares
The Joker is just a plain psycho with a clown motiff. Him being smarter than Ra's Al Ghul or Luthor doesnt make sense. Him being more dangerous than Ra's Al Ghul or Luthor doesnt make sense. Him owning the League and jokerizing aliens and magical beings doesnt make sense. Him getting all this ridiculous, random power-ups doesnt make sense.

Him being pimped to be incredibly smart and dangerous to sell comics not just for Batman-related titles but for the rest of DCU because he is the most popular DC villain, now THIS MAKE SENSE.

Spider-man would beat him.

Edit.

Originally posted by Templares
Referring to 5-D imps power.

You mentioned hes a "plain psycho with a clown motiff". Joker was highly intelligent before the clown ordeal. Its not like hes a dummy that cracks jokes all the time. Hes a genius that cracks jokes all the time. Why doesnt it make sense that he may be smarter and more dangerous than Luthor and Ras?

Originally posted by jrodslam
You mentioned hes a "plain psycho with a clown motiff". Joker was highly intelligent before the clown ordeal. Its not like hes a dummy that cracks jokes all the time. Hes a genius that cracks jokes all the time. Why doesnt it make sense that he may be smarter and more dangerous than Luthor and Ras?

The Joker has a definitive past? Where?

Basing on the Killing Joke, the Joker is just a plain chemical engineer. Sure he's smart but smarter than Ra's or Luthor, hell no. He doesnt posses any superpowers but unlike Luthor or Ra's, he doesnt have the resources to be a serious threat to anyone above street levels.

Originally posted by Templares
The Joker has a definitive past? Where?

Basing on the Killing Joke, the Joker is just a plain chemical engineer. Sure he's smart but smarter than Ra's or Luthor, hell no. He doesnt posses any superpowers but unlike Luthor or Ra's, he doesnt have the resources to be a serious threat to anyone above street levels.

He does and he has.

Originally posted by batdude123
He does and he has.

Whats the title of this definitive Joker origin?

Originally posted by Templares
Whats the title of this definitive Joker origin?

Ask jrod, I wasn't even talking about his "definitive origin."

Originally posted by Templares
The Joker has a definitive past? Where?

Basing on the Killing Joke, the Joker is just a plain chemical engineer. Sure he's smart but smarter than Ra's or Luthor, hell no. He doesnt posses any superpowers but unlike Luthor or Ra's, he doesnt have the resources to be a serious threat to anyone above street levels.

I disagree. Joker is not only a expert chemical engineer, hes also a master strategist, master thief and deadly combatant as well. Ras was surprised by Jokers intelligence after he beat him in a game of chess. Hes also outsmarted/tricked Luthor. You mention that Joker doesnt have the resourses to be a serious threat to anyone above street level? If he knows someone else has the resourses, hed take it and use it for his own doing. Hes used a mind control device to put members of the League to fight against each other. Now its not HIM thats the threat exactly, but hes the one who caused it. Hes posed a threat to super beings such as Aquaman, MM and others. He killed the Royal Flush gang. Hes even outsmarted Deathstroke. Joker can be a threat to anyone if given proper time and prep.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I disagree. Joker is not only a expert chemical engineer, hes also a master strategist, master thief and deadly combatant as well. Ras was surprised by Jokers intelligence after he beat him in a game of chess. Hes also outsmarted/tricked Luthor. You mention that Joker doesnt have the resourses to be a serious threat to anyone above street level? If he knows someone else has the resourses, hed take it and use it for his own doing. Hes used a mind control device to put members of the League to fight against each other. Now its not HIM thats the threat exactly, but hes the one who caused it. Hes posed a threat to super beings such as Aquaman, MM and others. He killed the Royal Flush gang. Hes even outsmarted Deathstroke. Joker can be a threat to anyone if given proper time and prep.

First off, anyone, from your average thug to a Cosmic Abstract could beat anybody with enough prep time. Its a given.

Second, Outsmarting Lex, Joker's Last Laugh .... these Joker feats are all HOLLOW feats because there is nothing in Joker's background history that would suggest that he is capable of such feats. This is why these feats are all chalked up to as PIS and why not? For the better part of his history, the Joker has only been a street level villain, all of a sudden, likely because of some editorial decision to boost sales, he's written as a League -level threat? WTF? I guess Rupert Thorne or Oswald Cobblepot are League-level villains too.

I guess its my assumption that he was already intelligent before the clown gettup.

If only DC would give the Joker a definitive origin like maybe before he became a psycho he was this brilliant academic student, then these Joker feats would have been legitimate. Hell, its much more believable that a scientist/businessman with enhanced physical stats like Norman Osborne would be JLA-level threat. And as a plus, he's f*ck crazy too.

Originally posted by Templares
First off, anyone, from your average thug to a Cosmic Abstract could beat anybody with enough prep time. Its a given.

This fight has Joker with prep and a few were mentioning that hes a very high treat with it. Its part of the debate.

Originally posted by Templares
Second, Outsmarting Lex, Joker's Last Laugh .... these Joker feats are all HOLLOW feats because there is nothing in Joker's background history that would suggest that he is capable of such feats. This is why these feats are all chalked up to as PIS and why not? For the better part of his history, the Joker has only been a street level villain, all of a sudden, likely because of some editorial decision to boost sales, he's written as a League -level threat? WTF? I guess Rupert Thorne or Oswald Cobblepot are League-level villains too.

Joker was a chemical engineer before quitting to do the comedy thing, so hed have to contain higher than average intelligence to do so. Id count that as something. Joker was/is only considered "street-level" due to his physical status. However his intellect isnt classified as "stree-level". Who labels these feats as PIS?

Originally posted by jrodslam
This fight has Joker with prep and a few were mentioning that hes a very high treat with it. Its part of the debate.



Joker was a chemical engineer before quitting to do the comedy thing, so hed have to contain higher than average intelligence to do so. Id count that as something. Joker was/is only considered "street-level" due to his physical status. However his intellect isnt classified as "stree-level". Who labels these feats as PIS?

Chemical engineer is NOT EQUAL to higher than average intelligence. The Joker has to have something from his past prior of becoming as the Joker, that would substantiate his claim of having higher than average intelligence.

Originally posted by Templares
Chemical engineer is NOT EQUAL to higher than average intelligence. The Joker has to have something from his past prior of becoming as the Joker, that would substantiate his claim of having higher than average intelligence.

All engineers employ mathematics, physics, and the engineering art to overcome technical problems in a safe and economical fashion. Yet, it is the chemical engineer alone that draws upon the vast and powerful science of chemistry to solve a wide range of problems. The strong technical and social ties that bind chemistry and chemical engineering are unique in the fields of science and technology. This marriage between chemists and chemical engineers has been beneficial to both sides and has rightfully brought the envy of the other engineering fields.

The breadth of scientific and technical knowledge inherent in the profession has caused some to describe the chemical engineer as the "universal engineer." Yes, you are hearing me correctly; despite a title that suggests a profession composed of narrow specialists, chemical engineers are actually extremely versatile and able to handle a wide range of technical problems.

You think somoene can be a chemical engineer with only a high school diploma? It probably takes more than 2 years of college to even be considered for the position.

Yeah but it doesnt make him any special, let alone smarter or more dangerous than someone like Lex Luthor who know multiple fields of science and was hailed as genius even as a teen.

Originally posted by Templares
Yeah but it doesnt make him any special, let alone smarter or more dangerous than someone like Lex Luthor who know multiple fields of science and was hailed as genius even as a teen.

Why can't you understand that the Joker is smart as hell? He has outsmarted Slade, Lex Luthor, etc. before.

Originally posted by batdude123
Why can't you understand that the Joker is smart as hell? He has outsmarted Slade, Lex Luthor, etc. before.

Simple because he aint. Basically youre arguing that the Joker is "smart as hell" because he OUTSMARTED Luthor and at the same time you guys are claiming that Joker OUTSMARTING Luthor is not PIS because the Joker is "smart as hell".

You are arguing in circles. This is what you call a logical fallacy.

Thats why im asking for some outside confirmation that the Joker is indeed a genius. Something from his history that would prove that he is indeed smart enough to outwit a certified genius on the level of Lex Luthor.

Originally posted by Templares
Simple because he aint. Basically youre arguing that the Joker is "smart as hell" because he OUTSMARTED Luthor and at the same time you guys are claiming that Joker OUTSMARTING Luthor is not PIS because the Joker is "smart as hell".

You are arguing in circles. This is what you call a logical fallacy.

Thats why im asking for some outside confirmation that the Joker is indeed a genius. Something from his history that would prove that he is indeed smart enough to outwit a certified genius on the level of Lex Luthor.

Because in the past, not only has he outsmarted Lex, but he's also outsmarted the likes of Slade as well. People like Ra's Al Guhl have taken notice to his intellect. Why would he ask for his know how and help if you was a dunce? That's what I'm getting at. He has got plenty of feats in the past that put him on that level. He demonstrates it in comics all the time. How could he have been a global threat so many times if he wasn't a genius?

Thats not what im looking for.

Im looking for confirmation outside a hero/villain confrontation

Take Luthor for example. Even before he tangled with superman or the JLA, he was already hailed as a genius and he showed this by building a link to the planet Krypton as a teen, in addition to starting Lexcorp. His later feats against Supes and other heroes is just a natural continuation of his character.

Joker's non-villain history doesnt support the claim that he is some special genius.

you say luthor is a genious yet joker has punked him more then once...........he made something that infected half the world and almost killed it....including luthor......plus doomsday even solomon grundy........he almost killed supes and almost caused him to commit murder, he defeated one of the greatest criminal masterminds hush, he found out how to use the philosophy stone in minutes when luthor took months and didnt find out how to use it...........ra's al ghoul turns to him for help and ra's al ghuoul is very smart.........he put slade down for a while with prep........has venom that affected WW...........the spectre is to scared to get into his head cause he might go crazy himself, his insanity effected a being like spectre who is not even cosmic but devine nature in DCU,.......what else almost killed the entire UN.......yeah he's not so smart just a guy with paint on his face who's cause more probs then luthor himself.......yup not smart at all............yuppppppppp lol

and you say luthor is a genius yet he had to team up with the joker

Joker wins this especially if mark hammill is the voice

there something spider-man have and joker doesen't have and that is LUCK

Originally posted by Legion of Doom
there something spider-man have and joker doesen't have and that is LUCK

You mean what Peter likes to call the old parker luck...and generaly its bad.

Yeah, but that parker luck usually affects him around his personal life(girls, work, relatives, money problem, etc). his combat luck is quite different eg. SvFL, hulk getting KTFO by a cement truck, Juggs getting trapped in a cement, etc.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Yeah, but that parker luck usually affects him around his personal life(girls, work, relatives, money problem, etc). his combat luck is quite different eg. SvFL, hulk getting KTFO by a cement truck, Juggs getting trapped in a cement, etc.

Juggs getting trapped in cement was luck, Hulk getting Ko'ed by a cement truck is just PIS.

Originally posted by Sparkz
Juggs getting trapped in cement was luck, Hulk getting Ko'ed by a cement truck is just PIS.

dude, i'd go for Juggs getting trapped by cement even a more bigger PIS than the truck falling down on hulks head. There's absolutely no reason why a class 100 would just go down like that. Hulk's defeat is also nigh PIS, but not as big as that.

Anyway, PIS to fight of PIS feats i always say. Joker has bigger but Spider-man can contend.

Originally posted by Mider
you say luthor is a genious yet joker has punked him more then once...........he made something that infected half the world and almost killed it....including luthor......plus doomsday even solomon grundy........he almost killed supes and almost caused him to commit murder, he defeated one of the greatest criminal masterminds hush, he found out how to use the philosophy stone in minutes when luthor took months and didnt find out how to use it...........ra's al ghoul turns to him for help and ra's al ghuoul is very smart.........he put slade down for a while with prep........has venom that affected WW...........the spectre is to scared to get into his head cause he might go crazy himself, his insanity effected a being like spectre who is not even cosmic but devine nature in DCU,.......what else almost killed the entire UN.......yeah he's not so smart just a guy with paint on his face who's cause more probs then luthor himself.......yup not smart at all............yuppppppppp lol

Joker's non-villain/background history doesnt support the claim that he is some special genius. Thats why his "intelligence feats" against Luthor, Slade, Ra's etc. are pure PIS.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
dude, i'd go for Juggs getting trapped by cement even a more bigger PIS than the truck falling down on hulks head. There's absolutely no reason why a class 100 would just go down like that. Hulk's defeat is also nigh PIS, but not as big as that.

Anyway, PIS to fight of PIS feats i always say. Joker has bigger but Spider-man can contend.

I dunno there was 40 feet of wet cement causing him to sink pretty fast and at the bottom he wouldnt have alot of leverage to use his strength, i think it made sense if he couldnt move, or at least couldnt move alot and had to make enough room for him to break out.

its PIS why cause you say so? its not PIS when the guy demonstates genious level over and over and over and over did spiderman demonstrage climbing up walls before he got bitten by a spider, joker was a totally diffrent person after he went insane its not PIS its just that he became diffrent and more smart its known to happen if you apply yourself you know he's nuts who the hell can be that nuts in just one night yet he did become that crazy its not PIS sorry he'd done stuff like that MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times its not pis

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Spider-man has face bigger threats than the joker. He has faced opponents on multiple occassions who had one-sided prep against him, which were generally more dangerous than joker and still trumped. This is some joker-friendly board seriously. Ditto. He's a major Bat-villain though, so it's to be expected.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
Green Goblin, Tracer, Kraven, Dr. Octopus, The Sinister Six(as a whole), Jackal & carrion, the jury, Shatra, etc. & Tracer had severely one-sided prep too. Didn't matter. Spidey was pissed off and knocked him through a wall.

it dont matter thanos with intelligence has fought off people who are alot bigger then he is, inbetweener, plenty of elders, and such if joker defeats spiderman its PIS but you dont think thaons beating inbetweener is PIS? Spiderman will go down, slade has trouble with joker, so does WW, and spiderman will beat him yeah right

Originally posted by who?-kid
Joker is an overrated skinny man who should be dead a long time ago. Spider-Man is one of the top heroes in the Marvel Universe for a reason.

Anybody who thinks Joker will win, is fooling himself. I have no problem admitting that the Joker with prep time will give Spider-Man a run for his money, but Spider-Man has faced much greater challenges than "the Joker."

See? This is why I consider you to be awesome, my friend. Because you are smart and know what you're talking about. Kudos to you.

Why can't there be more like you?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
See? This is why I consider you to be awesome, my friend. Because you are smart and know what you're talking about. Kudos to you.

Why can't there be more like you?
Well thanks buddy, it's always nice when somebody appreciates you...

Oh and give my regards to Colossus (one of the few characters Spider-Man really can't beat... too tough, no weaknesses.... damn lol).

Originally posted by who?-kid
Well thanks buddy, it's always nice when somebody appreciates you...

Oh and give my regards to Colossus (one of the few characters Spider-Man really can't beat... too tough, no weaknesses.... damn lol).

Hahahaha...can do, my friend. Caaaaan do.

But you're right though. There really are a select few characters with no existing weaknesses that Spidey has the ability to exploit. Colossus would be one of those, heh.

I think the biggest piece of respect Joker can get is that he is the only man Lex Luthor is afraid of. Lex isn't scared of Batman, Superman or Darkseid, but he is the Joker.

Doesn't that tell you something?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Hahahaha...can do, my friend. Caaaaan do.

But you're right though. There really are a select few characters with no existing weaknesses that Spidey has the ability to exploit. Colossus would be one of those, heh.

Damn you Colossus!!!

Anyone saying Joker will win is a fool. Spiderman faces many traps, plots, etc...daily with no problems. Spiderman's spider sense gives him a big up on this one.

Also Spiderman figures out how to escape from traps and plots he is unaware of all the time, what makes you think he wouldn't be able to escape from something the Joker set's up?

Spiderman OBVIOUSLY wins

Originally posted by Mider
its PIS why cause you say so? its not PIS when the guy demonstates genious level over and over and over and over did spiderman demonstrage climbing up walls before he got bitten by a spider, joker was a totally diffrent person after he went insane its not PIS its just that he became diffrent and more smart its known to happen if you apply yourself you know he's nuts who the hell can be that nuts in just one night yet he did become that crazy its not PIS sorry he'd done stuff like that MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times its not pis


Basically youre arguing that the Joker is "smart as hell" because he OUTSMARTED Luthor or Ra's, or and at the same time you guys are claiming that Joker OUTSMARTING Luthor or Ra's, or is not PIS because what? . . . . the Joker is "smart as hell".

Again this is circular reasoning and its wrong.

PIS is PIS if its foundation is PIS. No matter how many times it happened.

Take a look at the Flash. He gets hit, tripped, stabbed by people who are basically moving in slow motion to him. Its PIS and it happens ALL the time but it doesnt affect the Flash's battle effectiveness, especially in a Debate. Why? Because we know that for the sake of the story, the Flash has to be dumbed down (PIS). Besides his origins and his fights with speedsters tell a different story.

Joker outsmarting Luthor is a PIS feat youre trying to back up by another PIS feat in the form of the Joker outsmarting Ra's Al Ghul.

Which is why im asking for some background proof that the Joker is indeed some genius-level intellect that could outsmart and scare a certified genius like Luthor. The fact that DC refuses to give a definitive background history on the Joker certainly doesnt help his case. All we have about his background is that he's a crazy, street smart gangster but certainly nothing on the level of Luthor's intellect or Ra's. Hell, wasnt Luthor the king of failsafe's for the longest time. Luthor JOBBED to the Joker as do Ra's and .

And oh, Spider-man was bitten by a radioactive spider (or magically possesed by a spider totem) which is a perfectly logical comicbook explanation as to why he can climb walls. If the Joker had acquired his supposedly "genius-level intellect" through a radioactive bug or some other powerups, we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Originally posted by Templares
Basically youre arguing that the Joker is "smart as hell" because he OUTSMARTED Luthor or Ra's, or and at the same time you guys are claiming that Joker OUTSMARTING Luthor or Ra's, or is not PIS because what? . . . . the Joker is "smart as hell".

Again this is circular reasoning and its wrong.

PIS is PIS if its foundation is PIS. No matter how many times it happened.

Take a look at the Flash. He gets hit, tripped, stabbed by people who are basically moving in slow motion to him. Its PIS and it happens ALL the time but it doesnt affect the Flash's battle effectiveness, especially in a Debate. Why? Because we know that for the sake of the story, the Flash has to be dumbed down (PIS). Besides his origins and his fights with speedsters tell a different story.

Joker outsmarting Luthor is a PIS feat youre trying to back up by another PIS feat in the form of the Joker outsmarting Ra's Al Ghul.

Which is why im asking for some background proof that the Joker is indeed some genius-level intellect that could outsmart and scare a certified genius like Luthor. The fact that DC refuses to give a definitive background history on the Joker certainly doesnt help his case. All we have about his background is that he's a crazy, street smart gangster but certainly nothing on the level of Luthor's intellect or Ra's. Hell, wasnt Luthor the king of failsafe's for the longest time. Luthor JOBBED to the Joker as do Ra's and .

And oh, Spider-man was bitten by a radioactive spider (or magically possesed by a spider totem) which is a perfectly logical comicbook explanation as to why he can climb walls. If the Joker had acquired his supposedly "genius-level intellect" through a radioactive bug or some other powerups, we wouldnt be having this conversation.
I disagree. I don't like the Joker - yeah he's crazy we all get the picture - but I have no problem admitting he's a genius in his own way.

If, in comics, certain characters act in a more or less consistent and consequent way (Joker is always cunning, sometimes even brilliant), I don't see why he can not be considered as a genius ? There's no reason to rule him out.

The fact we don't know enough about his past doesn't matter. I don't see the connection between an unknown past and the Joker being dumb or smart. Joker is smart and cunning, and has always been that way.

No PIS or CIS here.

Originally posted by who?-kid
I disagree. I don't like the Joker - yeah he's crazy we all get the picture - but I have no problem admitting he's a genius in his own way.

If, in comics, certain characters act in a more or less consistent and consequent way (Joker is always cunning, sometimes even brilliant), I don't see why he can not be considered as a genius ? There's no reason to rule him out.

The fact we don't know enough about his past doesn't matter. I don't see the connection between an unknown past and the Joker being dumb or smart. Joker is smart and cunning, and has always been that way.

No PIS or CIS here.

Yeah, Joker is smart and cunning but smart enough to outsmart and freak out Mr. Failsafe Luthor, hell no. Luthor JOBBED simple as that.

captain america hanging with thor is PIS, odin throwing infinity out of his realm is PIS, sorry pal it doesnt count as pis if it happens ALOT of times we all agree on that mostly i think, if captain america was beating thor every other issue we'd be like wow this guy's one tough monkey but if he does it only once then its like whatttttttttttt, but joker has done his feats more then once, and its not considered PIS sorry.

This all depends on how the Joker is doing this trap. If he's been working on it for 5 days then unleashes a...oh I don't know a...erm ok just a big bomb or something (yeah I have no imagination) with absoloutly no warning that he was even up to something, Spider-man isn't going to be able to stop him because well he just dosen't know that Joker is doing anything and would be caught completley unaware.

However if Joker decides to brag and give a hero (in this case Spider-man) a day to find his bomb Spider-man can easily stop it, by swinging around the city he can use his Spider-Sense to home in on the "bomb" and deactivate it or whatever (yes Spider-man has defused a bomb before) and perhaps catch Joker himself if there is any clue of where the Joker is, and there isn't alot of chance of any traps the Joker has set to stop Spider-man because of his Spider-Sense. And even if the Joker has studied Spidey he can't beat him head to head because unlike say Superman, Spidey has no weakness to exploit.

Basicly it all depends on how Joker decides to unleash his plan if he dosen't annonce it then Joker 10/10 If he does I'd give it to Spider-man 7/10.

i think it has to do with his willingness to accomplish something if he REALLY wants to get something done he will but like when he wants to kill bats well he cant kill him he has had many chances yet has not if he REALLY wanted to get someone like in joker's last laugh those kinda things not as big though would be the results i mean like a real intrecet plot like when he became embassedor or when he kidnaped hush, or the time he killed robin things like that. Jokers last laugh only took him like 30 minutes prep but its cause he REALLY WANTED to leave his mark before he died.

Cap could probably take indirect blasts from a safe distance because he is after all carrying an indestructible shield.

However, no one sane will argue that Cap would beat Thor in a direct confrontation. I dont recall something like this has ever happened and even if it di,d its PIS. More often than not, Caps "feats" against Thor are in the form of verbal "sonning" basically just telling him off.

IIRC, Thor's Godblast melted cap's shield in one particular instance, and from what i hear also dented it with Mjolnir (not sure if both were in-continuity though).

PIS is still PIS if its foundation is based on PIS. No matter how many times it happened.

Well its like all villains big schemes hero's either sccidently come across it before its started or the villain gets braggy and tells them about it so the hero finds them and kicks the stuffing, or something bad happens then a group of heroes take the villain down, realy in these cases when a villain gets so much prep and looses its generaly just a plot device.

sorry pal around here PIS is when it happens a few times and is unbelivable not a million times

Originally posted by Mider
sorry pal around here PIS is when it happens a few times and is unbelivable not a million times

Erm OK.

Yeah. Joker feats are copouts and his popularity allows him to sustain this humongous PIS/JOBBING aura for long periods of time.

Originally posted by Templares
Yeah. Joker feats are copouts and his popularity allows him to sustain this humongous PIS/JOBBING aura for long periods of time.

Lol you don't like Joker much do you.

Liked him, REALLY liked him back when he and Batman was streetlevel. BatGOD and especially PIS-Joker pretty much turned me away from the characters. The only good Batman and Joker for me in recent years was Broken City.

Originally posted by Templares
Liked him, REALLY liked him back when he and Batman was streetlevel. BatGOD and especially PIS-Joker pretty much turned me away from the characters. The only good Batman and Joker for me in recent years was Broken City.

Feel kinda the same way. I dont like it when a heros popularity determins his feats.

yeah right man just cause you dont like a character dont give you the right to say he's this and that

OMG!1!1 zee H@t3r L0L!1! L0L!1! L0L!1!

Its a good thing that i made sensible arguments as to why Joker feats suck a$s because theyre the product of PIS fields and jobbing auras.

you didnt make any good arguments all your saying is I DONT LIKE THE JOKER SO ITS PIS

Originally posted by Templares
OMG!1!1 zee H@t3r L0L!1! L0L!1! L0L!1!

Its a good thing that i made sensible arguments as to why Joker feats suck a$s because theyre the product of PIS fields and jobbing auras.
Just like Superman

we dont know much about jokers past he could have been a genius

even he states that every time he remembers it, its different

Originally posted by Templares
Liked him, REALLY liked him back when he and Batman was streetlevel. BatGOD and especially PIS-Joker pretty much turned me away from the characters. The only good Batman and Joker for me in recent years was Broken City. They only really become that once they're outside of the actual Batman and Detective comics titles. Those are still brutally realistic portrayals.

Originally posted by Juntai
They only really become that once they're outside of the actual Batman and Detective comics titles. Those are still brutally realistic portrayals.

Yeah but stuff like Prometheus, the Scarebeast, the Red Hood are too superhero-ish for my taste. Im looking for crimenoir-ish and slightly mentally unstable type of Batman like the one in Azarello's piece. I probably would have picked Gotham Central if i had the bucks to spare.

this one is pretty tuff but id say the joker wins because of his prep time and he gives batman trouble who is much better than spiderman so joker wins this hands down

Originally posted by jbsuperbat
this one is pretty tuff but id say the joker wins because of his prep time and he gives batman trouble who is much better than spiderman so joker wins this hands down

Post like these make me wonder if people actually read more then one comic before posting to this board....

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Post like these make me wonder if people actually read more then one comic before posting to this board....

dance dance dance dance

Originally posted by jbsuperbat
this one is pretty tuff but id say the joker wins because of his prep time and he gives batman trouble who is much better than spiderman so joker wins this hands down

Ok then erm how about this? Spider-man wins because he can beat Venom who is stronger than Batman...

For some reason I think Spiderman loses this simply becuase he'll underestimate Joker. Spiderman should be able to rip him to shreds but I can see Spider tying him up but when he gets a little to close Joker has some surprise up his sleeve that spiderman isn't expecting.

And why are people callinig each other morons on a comic book message board? This reminds me of those funny skits on the Simpsons with the groosly overweight and balding "comic book guy" who feels everyone is beneath him but in reality he's the butt of the joke.

Originally posted by meep-meep
For some reason I think Spiderman loses this simply becuase he'll underestimate Joker. Spiderman should be able to rip him to shreds but I can see Spider tying him up but when he gets a little to close Joker has some surprise up his sleeve that spiderman isn't expecting.

And why are people callinig each other morons on a comic book message board? This reminds me of those funny skits on the Simpsons with the groosly overweight and balding "comic book guy" who feels everyone is beneath him but in reality he's the butt of the joke. But Spidersense would warn him if Joker tried anything

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Post like these make me wonder if people actually read more then one comic before posting to this board....

Indeedallydoodally!

Originally posted by Big Sexy
But Spidersense would warn him if Joker tried anything

True...if Joker were to find out about this feature of Spidermans though I see no reason he couldn't figure out a way around it. But if Spiderman were to just suit up and go capture Joker with out either knowing too much about the other, I guess Spiderman would take em.

Originally posted by meep-meep
For some reason I think Spiderman loses this simply becuase he'll underestimate Joker. Spiderman should be able to rip him to shreds but I can see Spider tying him up but when he gets a little to close Joker has some surprise up his sleeve that spiderman isn't expecting.
Spider-Man always underestimates his opponent at first. It's part of his nature.

But that doesn't mean he fights like a retard. Spider-Man remains one of the most experienced heroes in Marvel, and Joker won't give him much trouble, unless huge Plot Devices suddenly show up.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Spider-Man always underestimates his opponent at first. It's part of his nature.

But that doesn't mean he fights like a retard. Spider-Man remains one of the most experienced heroes in Marvel, and Joker won't give him much trouble, unless huge Plot Devices suddenly show up.

You are definitely my new best friend.

Originally posted by Mider
so what slade has precog and he still got beaten down for a moment cause joker had prep, and all those major heros who made spiderman look likea joke still had probs with the joker.

Where in the world did you get Slade having pre-cog?

its not like spiderman is all powerful for crying out loud joker did manage to hit wonder women with his toxin, and he can probably do the same with spiderman, he did it to solomon grundy and guys like that even luthor, and sersi, spiderman would be running around with a clown face after messing with the joker, joker even put slade down for a while, even had good prep against superman and against all the JLA, people who say joker is not that smart dont know much about him.

Originally posted by Mider
its not like spiderman is all powerful for crying out loud joker did manage to hit wonder women with his toxin, and he can probably do the same with spiderman, he did it to solomon grundy and guys like that even luthor, and sersi, spiderman would be running around with a clown face after messing with the joker, joker even put slade down for a while, even had good prep against superman and against all the JLA, people who say joker is not that smart dont know much about him.
Nobody is underestimating Joker. But though Joker is smart, he has the advantage he knows Batman and the DC universe like the back of his hand.

He doesn't know Spider-Man however. Spider-Man is too unpredictable, and is a genius in his own way.

Or did you forget Spider-Man has had his own Joker for years and years : Green Goblin / Hobgoblin. They are the Joker (in a way), only much more powerful. They even knew his secret identity.

Spider-Man beat them all.

So if anybody says that basically the same character (more or less of course !) but without the powers and the knowledge still can beat Spider-Man => I'm not impressed.

how does joker beat spiderman

same way he took slade down for a minute he had two majorly trained ninja's who put slade down while joker escaped

he can use his venom like he did pretty much everyone in the DCU even some pretty bad guys like solomon grundy

he could kidnap his aunt or mary jane or whoever his friends are and do to them what he did to robin

he might do to spidey what he did to hush, put him to sleep then spidey wakes up with a bomb inside him with joker holding the remote

lures spidey int a false sense of security thinking oh well he aint so tough then BAM razor sharp card to the face

even if spidy has the spider sense he isnt someone who moves at light speed that he can just get away from any circomstance.

Wow, that's amazing...really. I can't think of a single person who would do the same thing if they had 2 uber ninja minions hanging around. A feat of tactical ingenuity.

And for the rest of your scenario, the only thing that could work is kidnapping his loved ones or probably killing them. But that would only tick him off as he have when GG tried the same thing **repeatedly**. The others are just assuming spider-man would just forget his Spider-sense and reflexes, stand there like a statue and allow Joker close enough to do it to him.

yeah wow its so funny dude i need to poste it somewhere where everyone can see it then they can laugh till there brains melt out there ears....anyway yeah i think a guy who has punked kid flash, can take anti tank bullets and still get up, jump higher then spiderman, move fast enough to dodge machine gun fire point blank range, evade superman for a time not very long but none the less a time, oh yeah i remeber thats not much of a feat to prepare for someone like that and get him beat down while you run off laughing...........yup no feat at all

-Jump higher than spider-man?
-Move faster than spider-man?
-Evade superman(and i'm assuming this is big blue using his speed right?)?

Mider, where do you get these facts? Do you even read a spider-man comic to judge these things?