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I feel like making threads!!! Who wins? The fight is at the Kamino platforms.

AotC Kenobi alone could give him trouble. Add in Anakin and Qui-Gon goes down.

Qui-Gon was supposed to be pretty good, wasn't he? A bit on the level of Mace, wasn't it? But what I saw in the theatre wasn't too impressive though..

Qui-Gon wins and grounds them bothbawling

It's very close. Anakin isn't far off Obi-Wan at this point, and Obi-Wan has almost reached the end of his knighthood by AOTC. Qui-Gon also utilises ataru, which isn't too great against multiple opponents. I say Qui-Gon, but only just.

Qui-Gon is going down.

The book saying Qui-Gon matched Mace in swordsmanship should be burnt. Is that book really saying that Maul is a better swordsman than Windu and that a pissed TPM Obi-Wan could possibly threaten Mace in a sword fight?

AOTC Obi is going to take a long time to take down for Qui-Gon, this is obvious. And Qui-Gon's defence was apparently lacking, if Anakin and Obi attacked him at the same time, or if Obi defended and Anakin went rats-ass on Qui-Gon, I don't think he would make it. Qui-Gon does not have skills enough to take either of them down quickly, and if they went 2 on 1 I doubt he could make it....

Originally posted by kamikz
The book saying Qui-Gon matched Mace in swordsmanship should be burnt. Is that book really saying that Maul is a better swordsman than Windu.

Remember this is the Mace that we know 13 years ago. Mace hadn't even created Vaapad at this point, and he would have been much less skilled with a saber, and not as strong in the force.

If you say so. Provide me with a source that says Vaapad didn't exist in TPM and then tell me why Mace was still the second top swordsman in the Jedi Order at the time of TPM.

Count Dooku was the second top swordsman in the order....
He was still a great swordsman and much better then most masters, however other jedi like Jinn and Bondara were still on the same level as he was.

I thought Mace was already noted as one of the top saber duellists, as a saber "progedy"

If Maul was in the order, he would have also been considered one of the top duelists.

Mace was one of the top saber duelists, however Yoda and Dooku were still superior to him and jedi like Bondara and Jinn were considered to be on his level.

I'll ask the same thing as Rex.


Proof that Vaapad didn't exist at the time.
Proof that Mace powers grew SO freaking much in those 10 years.

Ok and I'm going to say the same thing as I did before. Do you honestly belive that a PADAWAN Obi-Wan that was furious could actually stand up to the 2-3 best saber duellist in the order?

The short story 'Kent Makes Up Sources.'

And Anakin grew incredibly powerful between AOTC and ROTS which was about 3 years. This is 13 years that we are talking about.

And in response to your question, he was able to stand up (luckily) against maul who was able to outclass both Jinn and Bondara (previously) who were some of the best duelists in the order and considered to be on par with Mace.

Yeah, I agree with Kamikz that we should go by what we saw from the movies. Qui-Gon just isn't that great. Actually, Ataru just isn't that handy..

Originally posted by Count Kent
The short story 'Kent Makes Up Sources.'

And Anakin grew incredibly powerful between AOTC and ROTS which was about 3 years. This is 13 years that we are talking about.

And in response to your question, he was able to stand up (luckily) against maul who was able to outclass both Jinn and Bondara (previously) who were some of the best duelists in the order and considered to be on par with Mace.


So, does this mean that Maul is a better swordsman than Mace, just because Mace had not yet developed Vaapad? Vaapad is not what makes Windu good, it is certainley something special, but he was nontheless good before too. He is still a master of the two styles that Vaapad combines, Maul is fighting with an INCOMPLETE style, he's good with it, but still....

I really don't belive that a padawan can get lucky enough to beat one of the top swordsmen of the order. Comon, this guy was almost the youngest person of the council (until Anakin, I don't know if Depa but whatever). You don't get there for nothing. He was ONLY bested by Dooku and Yoda. That does not mean that he was bested always, he had been bested, mabey once or twice by them, nothing more and no one else. There is nothing except that quote which says that Qui-Gon is equal to Mace in TPM. There is nothing to indicate that Qui-Gon is near his level. Doesn't even that same book say that Maul TOYED Qui-Gon? Does this mean that Maul could toy Mace in a sword duel? That is just ridicilous.

You guys seriously underestimate Maul...He would give TPM Mace a very, very tough fight. (Might even win). Obi-Wan was incredibly lucky against him, and he still almost lost.

I can confidently say that Maul would almost own Mace as of TPM.

Underestimate? Rather overestimate. Maul would not win over Mace in TPM, Mace did not get where he was for nothing, Vaapad is not the source of Mace power.

Shatterpoint is...

And Maul is underestimated. He was extremely incredible at such a young age and in the movies, only the Skywalkers had more potential.

How do you know that? Have you got his midichlorian count? Is it ever told? Just because he was a very accomplished swordsman and personally trained by possibly the greatest sith lord ever does not mean he had more potential. Kar Vastor is an example.

And no, Shatterpoint is not the only source of his power either. Windu had strong force powers and his swordsmanship was very great.
You are basically saying that anyone without a special style will loose against Maul. Windu was in the top of the order even before Vaapad, he had mastered Djem and Ataru (I think it was that one), and possibly Juyo too. That should be enough....

Proof?


Maul can either take Mace, or put up a heck of a fight against him.

You are the one who should post proof, not me. You are just saying "he can beat him". Give me a reason to belive so...

I have provided proof. You have not.

I was talking to DePWNZOR, who apparently had done nothing but said "he will win".

Where is the proof? I thought you were the one who said "we can't base all on quotes"? Please, answere my post on page 1 before we go on...
And show me precisley the quotes, pages, the comics. Everything where it says Mace and Qui are on par, and where it said Vaapad was developed after TPM.

Originally posted by kamikz
I was talking to DePWNZOR, who apparently had done nothing but said "he will win".

Where is the proof? I thought you were the one who said "we can't base all on quotes"? Please, answere my post on page 1 before we go on...
And show me precisley the quotes, pages, the comics. Everything where it says Mace and Qui are on par, and where it said Vaapad was developed after TPM. In the TPM novel it states Qui-Gon was equal to Mace, but then again I haven't read it in a while. So I'm gonna have to get back to you with the quote on that.

@Kent: Please, STFU with the bullshit. You're just a complete nuisance and your True Force can kiss my arse, stop posting with non-canon articles and state actual sources for once. Until you do your opinion has absolutely no place here.

The only reason why Kenobi beat Maul was cause Maul was getting cocky so he underestimated Obi-Wan and he got lucky

They were on par; Qui-Gon never really bested him, but he they were near equal with the blade. Mace presumably got better. That's... it.

As much as I like Qui-Gon, he would go down if AOTC Obi-Wan and Anakin went up against him, especially if it was like a tag-team. IMO Qui-Gon is more stronger in the force than either of the two (remember he did that strong force push against that battle droid by casually using just one finger, imagine what he can do if he truly concentrated) but when it comes to saber skills he is outmatched. AOTC Obi-Wan would of course just keep blocking and blocking until Qui-Gon leaves an opening, while AOTC Anakin would pretty much be the mirror of Qui-Gon's Ataru lightsaber skills, only Anakin has his youth as a much added strength.

Originally posted by Broly92
Qui-Gon wins and grounds them bothbawling

Originally posted by Count Kent
I have provided proof. You have not.

No Kamikz has, u have not..

Originally posted by systemshock2
As much as I like Qui-Gon, he would go down if AOTC Obi-Wan and Anakin went up against him, especially if it was like a tag-team. IMO Qui-Gon is more stronger in the force than either of the two (remember he did that strong force push against that battle droid by casually using just one finger, imagine what he can do if he truly concentrated) but when it comes to saber skills he is outmatched. AOTC Obi-Wan would of course just keep blocking and blocking until Qui-Gon leaves an opening, while AOTC Anakin would pretty much be the mirror of Qui-Gon's Ataru lightsaber skills, only Anakin has his youth as a much added strength.


I agree with nearly everything, and yes, Qui-Gon is stronger than both of them in the force, or more experienced at least, but I never remembered that Qui-Gon took down many droids by only using his finger. Do you mean that time in Naboo when they have freed the queen? There he sweeps with his hand.... But if he went into a force battle with both of them he is not going to make it either I'm afraid.....

I say that the duo take this. Qui-Gon is skilled, but Kenobi and Skywalker are a great team and are very very skilled in their own rights.

In regards to Maul, I think he could provide a fight for Windu, but has no chance of winning.

Qui-Gon goes down hard in this fight. He's good, but against these two, he gets owned pretty quickly. Not to mention his saber style isn't the best in these types of situations.

The duo win. Qui-Gon could take either alone but together they are 2 much. Qui-Gon uses Ataru so he's pretty fast, he could hold them off for a short while but he'd get tired after a minute and then he'd go down hard.