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Jacen Solo as in Betrayal vs. current Kyp Durron. Who'd win? Both lightsaber and force.

Jacen.

No Way! Kyp wins by far except the saber duel. He isn't really a great swordsman, However, he wins all.

Undecided. I think Jacen or Kyp.

Kyp, more experience.

Kyp owns.

Chuck Norrisd P4WNZ J00!!

Bruce lee owns Chuck Norris

"Rather than being birthed like a normal child, Chuck Norris instead decided to punch his way out of his mother's womb. Shortly thereafter he grew a beard"

Kyp takes this.

Doubtful, Jacen's stronger

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Doubtful, Jacen's stronger

In Betrayal, Jacen was able to contend in a lightsaber duel with a Force phantom that was described as "would be a fair match for Luke."

I dunno, but I'm probably gonna have to go with Lightsnake.

I'll have to reread that part. The real Luke (not the not-Luke) didn't seem to be fighting very hard at all yet he was winning against Jacen. Jacen's good, but I still don't think he's as strong as Kyp. Maybe in a few more books.

Jacen will probably become as strong as Luke.

I strongly doubt that Jacen will become as strong as Luke. Anakin Solo had more potential then Jacen. The only person mentioned as having nearly as much potential as him was Kyp. Luke appears to have at least that much as well. Jacen doesn't seem to have as much potential as Kyp and certainly not as much as Luke. He won't equal him.

Possibly not Luke, but I'm pretty sure that he has as much as Kyp. Kyp's about 4 years older, and Jacen is rapidly growing in power. However they're all extremely powerful.

Firstly, Kyp is much more then four years older then Jacen. Second, you being "pretty sure" that Jacen has as much potential as Kyp is not as important as the fact that Star by Star is very indicative that Kyp has more potential then Jacen.

And the Unifying Force and Betrayal make it very clear Jacen can surpass Luke

Chuck Norris doesn't consider it sex if the woman survives...

Originally posted by BlaxicanTroller
Chuck Norris doesn't consider it sex if the woman survives... you should be banned for posting irrelevant/random/spamming/worthless posts.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Firstly, Kyp is much more then four years older then Jacen. Second, you being "pretty sure" that Jacen has as much potential as Kyp is not as important as the fact that Star by Star is very indicative that Kyp has more potential then Jacen.

Kyp Durron was 14 years older. My mistake.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And the Unifying Force and Betrayal make it very clear Jacen can surpass Luke

How did they do that? Jacen became extremely power for a short time in TUF. Luke could potentially do the same thing and become even more powerful then Jacen was during that time. Why do I think that? Because in Traitor Ganner, who was weaker then Jacen did the same thing as Jacen but was weaker in that state. The power of a person in that state appears to be proportional to the persons power in their normal state. Hence, Luke is still better then Jacen.

I must need to reread Betrayal. Where did it say that? Are you talking about the vision where Jacen cuts Luke down? Do you think it's possible that Luke might not have been trying to kill Jacen during that fight, but Jacen may have been trying to kill him. There aren't enough facts on that yet to make any reasonable claim one way or the other.

The future vision of Jacen KILLING Luke in a vicious duel? It's made quite clear they're both giving their all and that's dark Jacen.

Jacen's also a Skywalker. Period there.

The future vision of Jacen KILLING Luke in a vicious duel? It's made quite clear they're both giving their all and that's dark Jacen.

Really? Luke certainly didn't seem to be giving his all when I read it. Maybe you should go reread it.

Even if Luke was fighting a dark Jacen he wouldn't go full out. He would try to redeem him. That's what Luke does.

I suggest you do, since it's Luke trying to stop Jacen from taking over the galaxy. Nothing to even hint they're not giving their alls.

And yes, Luke tries to redeem people....I'm sure Welk and Lomi Plo will be pleased to hear that...Sedriss and Ocherion, too...I'm certainly that's gonna be of great interest to Lord Shadowspawn...

If Luke had wanted, he could have instantly killed Welk and Lomi Plo with his emerald lightning. He decided not to. He gave them a chance for as long as he could.

The main thing you have to consider though is that Jacen is family. Jacen is Luke's nephew. I recall Luke freaking out when he thought Jacen was dead as he had already sent one of Leia's kids to his death. Luke's not going to do that again.

How about you go ahead and quote the part in Betrayal where the fight was, as I'm having trouble finding it. A page number or something. When you have that, tell me which words lead you to believe that Luke was giving it his all.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The future vision of Jacen KILLING Luke in a vicious duel? It's made quite clear they're both giving their all and that's dark Jacen.

Really? Luke certainly didn't seem to be giving his all when I read it. Maybe you should go reread it.

Even if Luke was fighting a dark Jacen he wouldn't go full out. He would try to redeem him. That's what Luke does.

Glentract, I don't believe that Jacen can surpass Luke, but what you're using is extremely poor logic.

You can't say what Luke will do and expect it to hold any weight in the argument.

Lightsnake is saying that Luke will go full out against his nephew who he is morbidly afraid of seeing die. How does that hold any weight.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Lightsnake is saying that Luke will go full out against his nephew who he is morbidly afraid of seeing die. How does that hold any weight.

Because that is what the vision shows him doing.

I asked for a quote. Can you give it to me?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I asked for a quote. Can you give it to me?

Sure can't. I have it at my Dad's.

Originally posted by Escape81
Because that is what the vision shows him doing.

just because thats what the vision may portray doesnt mean it's true.

"Always in motion is the future." yoda

Kyp takes this with some effort. He's too strong with the Force, and too experianced.

As for who has more force potential, Luke or Jacen, it is obviously Luke. Think about this. Anakin Skywalker was CONCEIVED by the Force, which is why he has the highest Force Potential EVER (quite a bit higher than Luke OR Jacen). Luke is more closely related to Anakin Skywalker, being his son, so he would get more of his genes than Jacen would, being his grandson. Luke>Jacen in force potential.

Nice logic.