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the previous heralds v jla thread was hardly what i'd call fair. green arrow?

well, the jla has a LOT more to offer than that particular lineup. let's revise, shall we . . .

nova
firelord
morg
terrax
silver surfer

v

Team A

orion
dr. fate
captain marvel (classic)
green lantern (hal)
j'onzz

and one more variation on the jla:

heralds

v

Team B

firestorm (ronnie)
zatanna
triumph
zauriel
superman

do either jla teams win against the 'all mighty' herald team??

no

nope

team a wins at least 5 of 10. team b it's unlikely you know well enough to fairly say.

Team A only because of Dr. Fate and Hal win 4/10

actually I think the JLA can take the majority in both if they are given say 5 minutes heads up to at least get ready for the speed.

Otherwise human durability is the downfall.

who on the heralds will blitz? ss, but the ring can counter that blitz. terrax, morg, nova and fl have never been shown to blitz. once it gets down to pure fighting, either jla team can win in a number of ways. heralds could still do it. airwalker and nova are the weakest links though. fl is all right but ss and morg are the big threats here. they can be held of long enough for help to arrive though.

Leo, the herald teams are somewhat shitty and you know it.................. Nova? She's like the Aquaman of heralds. Trade her for stardust and we get a battle. Though Terrax with his axe should be able to cleave most of the other teams in two.

And this is my problem with rumbles/fights. Why must it come down to hth?? We all know thats DCs strong point, and not Marvels. Can any battle trump the almighty punch??

Originally posted by UniOmni
Leo, the herald teams are somewhat shitty and you know it.................. Nova? She's like the Aquaman of heralds. Trade her for stardust and we get a battle. Though Terrax with his axe should be able to cleave most of the other teams in two.

And this is my problem with rumbles/fights. Why must it come down to hth?? We all know thats DCs strong point, and not Marvels. Can any battle trump the almighty punch??



where were you and your complaints when the heralds fought a jla team with green arrow on it?!

and who says it would come to h2h? with guys like ss, fate and green lantern it would be as much an energy battle as h2h. though terrax and morg genrally engage h2h as often as anyone on the dc would.

and i just used the heralds that were given in the previous thread when everyone said the heralds would crush the jla. hell, there's a whole thread -- 100s of posts long -- debating whether ss alone could wipe out the jla!

i don't see the teams being all that uneven at all. team a takes majority imo, but heralds could most certainly win. could it be that someone is actually underestimating the heralds 'round here . . .?

Heralds written to what they are supposed to represent would DESTROY JLA. They are not only given the power cosmic but the ability to understand how to use it effectively, writters forget that last part

I think without a few minutes prep and heralds at full power and use would destroy the JLA, however that tends to not be the case. JLA should win minus human durablity.

If written to their power set however the heralds once again would destroy the JLA.

Team A takes the majority. Soleran, I respect your opinion, but no offense you don't know what Dr. Fate is capable of. He is one powerful SOB. Team B, that's a toughie. If the heralds don't take out Zatanna within the first few seconds, then they are pretty much f*cked. Team A wins the majority, as for the second fight, it could really go either way.

Originally posted by leonidas
the previous heralds v jla thread was hardly what i'd call fair. green arrow?

well, the jla has a LOT more to offer than that particular lineup. let's revise, shall we . . .

nova
firelord
morg
terrax
silver surfer

v

Team A

orion
dr. fate
captain marvel (classic)
green lantern (hal)
j'onzz

and one more variation on the jla:

heralds

v

Team B

firestorm (ronnie)
zatanna
triumph
zauriel
superman

do either jla teams win against the 'all mighty' herald team??

Zatanna - "sdlareh pots"

Heralds are frozen in place. Zauriel chops em in half.

Zatanna, PIS in the making.

you keep saying human durability sol . . . where do you see that? fate ahs uber-strange-like shields. j'onzz, WAYYYY above human. cm, WAYYYYYYYY above human. orion, so far above human the light from human durability takes 1000 years to reach him. and gl, auto-shields that can stop pretty well anything.

human durability?

and the only one versatile enough to really be used in the way you were speaking is ss. nova and fl use stellar energy -- a far cry from ss's ability to control almost any form of energy. morg is a brawler with cosmic power and terrax is similar -- less cosmic power but with earth control. ss has great versatility. the others aren't nearly as versatile as he is.

edit: yeah, i figured zatanna was capable of stopping them but could someone save her from a blitz . . .?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Zatanna - "sdlareh pots"

Heralds are frozen in place. Zauriel chops em in half.

Zatanna, PIS in the making.


Yup if it weren't for human durability and speed I would agree, speed blitz, dead team.

Heralds have never been known for speed blitz.
Sorry, but that's forum speculation.

Originally posted by Soleran
Yup if it weren't for human durability and speed I would agree, speed blitz, dead team.

Read leo's post.

Originally posted by Soleran
Yup if it weren't for human durability and speed I would agree, speed blitz, dead team.

human durability?? see my previous post . . .

SS has And guess what you only need one.


Also I might add that I said if the heralds were written the way their power was infused with them. Writers make them ass, even I can think of better ways to use their powers. Essentially the heralds can give everyone the mass of a star and have them collapse on themselves.

Originally posted by batdude123
Read leo's post.

Originally posted by Soleran
SS has And guess what you only need one.

Out of decades of continuity, SS hasn't shown speed blitzes.

For all their power, heralds almost always end up H2H.

There is no denying it.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Out of decades of continuity, SS hasn't shown speed blitzes.

For all their power, heralds almost always end up H2H.

There is no denying it.


He did when fighting Thanos, I cannot help herlads get less page time then the JLA. Even in the annihaltion series SS speedblited the ships. With all their powers and their pwer source the JLA are whipped.

Soleran Soleran Soleran.... tut tut tut. doh WOW. You want to see just how powerful Dr. Fate is? Here he is sending Sentinel Alan Scott, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Star Spangled Kid to his own relm in a weakened trance-like state.

Originally posted by Soleran
He did when fighting Thanos, I cannot help herlads get less page time then the JLA. Even in the annihaltion series SS speedblited the ships. With all their powers and their pwer source the JLA are whipped.

You mean when he flies through the ships? Any GL, MM, Superman, WW, etc can do that... that was no speed blitz.

I hope the "speed blitz" you are talking about isn't where SS tried grabbing the Gauntlet off Thanos SLOW MOVING arm and missed anyway.

SS is multiples faster then the speed of thought, power cosmic allows him to identify threats with my prior statement. Is Fate that fast, nope thought not.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You mean when he flies through the ships? Any GL, MM, Superman, WW, etc can do that... that was no speed blitz.

I hope the "speed blitz" you are talking about isn't where SS tried grabbing the Gauntlet off Thanos SLOW MOVING arm and missed anyway.

Pass the hateraid Doesn't matter he has shown it, unfortunetly we can mostly speculate on heralds powers as compared to JLA as less showings.

That doesn't change the fact Heralds could as I said just give all JLA the mass of a star MUCH much faster then thought and thats just the start.

Originally posted by batdude123
Soleran Soleran Soleran.... tut tut tut. doh WOW. You want to see just how powerful Dr. Fate is? Here he is sending Sentinel Alan Scott, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Star Spangled Kid to his own relm in a weakened trance-like state.

Originally posted by Soleran
Pass the hateraid Doesn't matter he has shown it, unfortunetly we can mostly speculate on heralds powers as compared to JLA as less showings.

That doesn't change the fact Heralds could as I said just give all JLA the mass of a star MUCH much faster then thought and thats just the start.

Soleran you never give the JLA ANY credit at all. You automatically hear the name "Silver Surfer" and you think "This guy can beat anybody because he's super duper fast." You are going by a false perception of Silver Surfer that is never portrayed of him. His flight speed and his ATTACK SPEED are two totally different things. In attack speed, he is no better than Thor.

Originally posted by Soleran
Pass the hateraid Doesn't matter he has shown it, unfortunetly we can mostly speculate on heralds powers as compared to JLA as less showings.

That doesn't change the fact Heralds could as I said just give all JLA the mass of a star MUCH much faster then thought and thats just the start.

I have no interest in a sip of your hateraid.

It's obvious who the hater is here, and it isn't me..

You haven't provided of shown proof of anything. Over 30 years of continuity and you bring up half baked scenarios from 1 herald.

SS has never speed blitzed Thanos.

the mass of a star . . .? and gl can whip up a planet-sized bubble that blocks all ambient cosmic rays from entering thus cutting off the source of all their power. that would end things right quick. and gl speed feats are about equal herald feats.

Originally posted by leonidas
the mass of a star . . .? and gl can whip up a planet-sized bubble that blocks all ambient cosmic rays from entering thus cutting off the source of all their power. that would end things right quick. and gl speed feats are about equal herald feats.


He could do that at the speed of thought, heralds are faster.


Avalon,we just spoke about SS speedblitzing Thanos even if it was unsuccessful, did you forget already.

Originally posted by Soleran
He could do that at the speed of thought, heralds are faster.


Avalon,we just spoke about SS speedblitzing Thanos even if it was unsuccessful, did you forget already.

Did you forget that you haven't proven anything? Lobo could have done that, and wouldn't have missed.

I'll take this as you not having any real examples. It's ok.

Originally posted by Soleran
He could do that at the speed of thought, heralds are faster.


Avalon,we just spoke about SS speedblitzing Thanos even if it was unsuccessful, did you forget already.

we did? anyway, i wasn't the one debating with you over the blitz. i said gl speed feats are equal to heralds. and you're wrong about the thought portion. the ring CAN act of its own accord without conscious direction from a gl. that's how it can protect a gl without the gl even knowing an attack was coming.

ss can blitz, i agree. it's not shown often, and combat speed is even rarer -- not sure it's EVER been shown.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Did you forget that you haven't proven anything? Lobo could have done that, and wouldn't have missed.


Seriously, WTF so off the wall.

Whats to prevent CA from Speed blitzing the speed blitzing herald huh.

Originally posted by Soleran
Seriously, WTF so off the wall.

SS has shown travel speed. Lobo does the same flying through space on his bike all the time.

So you have any real proof of anything or what?

Silver Surfer's flight speed and his combat speed are two totally different things. His combat speed is nothing that the JLA line-up couldn't handle.

Originally posted by newjak86
Whats to prevent CA from Speed blitzing the speed blitzing herald huh.

i think he's saying he wouldn't have TIME to blitz because the herald's (ss's) blitz would already have happened because ss's blitz would have blitzed him before CA (CM?) even had the chance to think about his own blitz.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I hope the "speed blitz" you are talking about isn't where SS tried grabbing the Gauntlet off Thanos SLOW MOVING arm and missed anyway.

Don't like it I guess, was that a speed blitz right in YOUR discussion? Not to mention all I wanted to prove is that Heralds "thought" process is MUCH MUCH faster then humans and as such even if they don't move can act faster and their manipulation skills put to use.

Originally posted by Soleran
Don't like it I guess, was that a speed blitz right in YOUR discussion? Not to mention all I wanted to prove is that Heralds "thought" process is MUCH MUCH faster then humans and as such even if they don't move can act faster and their manipulation skills put to use.

So a failed attempt with FLIGHT Speed against a slow moving object is your argument?

Originally posted by leonidas
i think he's saying he wouldn't have TIME to blitz because the herald's (ss's) blitz would already have happened because ss's blitz would have blitzed him before CA (CM?) even had the chance to think about his own blitz.

Oh the whole whos faster on the draw speed blitz. I ilke it.

Originally posted by Soleran
Don't like it I guess, was that a speed blitz right in YOUR discussion? Not to mention all I wanted to prove is that Heralds "thought" process is MUCH MUCH faster then humans and as such even if they don't move can act faster and their manipulation skills put to use.

How can you even call that JLA line-up "human?" None of them are human in any stretch of the imagination. Silver Surfer never shows combat speed that is three hundred times the speed of light like his travelling speed. He hardly EVER speed blitzes, and when he went all out against Warrior Madness Thor he got his ass kicked. Please stop flaunting a false perception of his character. Team A gets the majority.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So a failed attempt with FLIGHT Speed against a slow moving object is your argument?


Its not my argument, its my fact. Thanos with the glove is a far cry from laughing at a speed blitz seeing as what the gauntlet allows the user to do.

More importantly, Heralds are jobbers. JLA would win simply because writers are ass with their powers. Like I said if everyone of the JLA were given the mass of a sun as fast as heralds can function guess what, they are stopped and possible dead.

Originally posted by Soleran
Its not my argument, its my fact. Thanos with the glove is a far cry from laughing at a speed blitz seeing as what the gauntlet allows the user to do.

More importantly, Heralds are jobbers. JLA would win simply because writers are ass with their powers. Like I said if everyone of the JLA were given the mass of a sun as fast as heralds can function guess what, they are stopped and possible dead.

So EVERY single showing of the heralds is PIS? Come on now Soleran, I though you could do better than that.

Did I say every single showing of heralds is PIS, no of course not. Thats you putting words somewhere. What I am saying is that given the powers of Heralds and what they are suppoesd to do the JLA would lose plain and simple.

Its the writers that simplify heralds to tanking not their powersets.

Originally posted by Soleran
Its not my argument, its my fact. Thanos with the glove is a far cry from laughing at a speed blitz seeing as what the gauntlet allows the user to do.

More importantly, Heralds are jobbers. JLA would win simply because writers are ass with their powers. Like I said if everyone of the JLA were given the mass of a sun as fast as heralds can function guess what, they are stopped and possible dead.

So Captain America was moving at far beyond light speed to dodge Thanos attacks?

Originally posted by newjak86
Oh the whole whos faster on the draw speed blitz. I ilke it.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So Captain America was moving at far beyond light speed to dodge Thanos attacks?

Is that what you interpreted, I am curious.

Originally posted by Soleran
Is that what you interpreted, I am curious.

I'm more curious about your interpretation.

Then again, you are using flight speed as a blitzs...

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I'm more curious about your interpretation.

Then again, you are using flight speed as a blitzs...

Lets not confuse interpretation for fact, SS speed was mentioned. Captain America didn't have a speed labeled. So once again I ask you did it say CA speed blitzed, no, so lets not confuse the 2 shall we.

By the way flight speed is a blitz, why on earth would you even attempt to confuse it?

Once again, I don't think you realize the difference between flight speed and combat speed. THIS is flight speed.

Originally posted by leonidas
An old wild west showdown of the speed blitz.

SO WHAT, so is it fair to say that the ability to move at a specific speed would augments one reflex's to react to said speed?

This is attack/combat speed.

Originally posted by Soleran
Lets not confuse interpretation for fact, SS speed was mentioned. Captain America didn't have a speed labeled. So once again I ask you did it say CA speed blitzed, no, so lets not confuse the 2 shall we.

By the way flight speed is a blitz, why on earth would you even attempt to confuse it?

I never said that CA speed blitzed either... read it again...

You want to win a debate so badly that you are nitpicking at whatever you can.

Do you believe that heralds are the only ones that aren't written to "full potential?"

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I never said that CA speed blitzed either... read it again...

You want to win a debate so badly that you are nitpicking at whatever you can.

Do you believe that heralds are the only ones that aren't written to "full potential?"

He is nitpicking.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I never said that CA speed blitzed either... read it again...

You want to win a debate so badly that you are nitpicking at whatever you can.

Do you believe that heralds are the only ones that aren't written to "full potential?"

I am bringing up obvious points which you are derailing, you have yet to answer the question directly.

What I am saying about Heralds is that they have less comic paper used then the JLA. So I am not saying the JLA that are written to full potential, just that the Heralds written at full form take the fight.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You mean when he flies through the ships? Any GL, MM, Superman, WW, etc can do that... that was no speed blitz.

I hope the "speed blitz" you are talking about isn't where SS tried grabbing the Gauntlet off Thanos SLOW MOVING arm and missed anyway.
So... just because other people could pull it off, that makes it not a speedblitze? I don't really get that logic. Supes, WW, and MM can and have pulled off speedblitzes as well as low-level speedsters and streets-levelers like Spider-Man and Quicksilver. How fast a speedblitz actually is depends on the speed of the character pulling it off.

Originally posted by Accel
So... just because other people could pull it off, that makes it not a speedblitze? I don't really get that logic. Supes, WW, and MM can and have pulled off speedblitzes as well as low-level speedsters and streets-levelers like Spider-Man and Quicksilver. How fast a speedblitz actually is depends on the speed of the character pulling it off.

Exactly, but has SS done it in battle?

There are over 30 years of opportunity.

My point was that all of those can fly through ships like that.

Team A takes the majority and Team B doesn't.

Originally posted by Soleran
I am bringing up obvious points which you are derailing, you have yet to answer the question directly.

What I am saying about Heralds is that they have less comic paper used then the JLA. So I am not saying the JLA that are written to full potential, just that the Heralds written at full form take the fight.

And I am showing that you haven't proven anything.

Now you are going by "on paper"

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Exactly, but has SS done it in battle?

There are over 30 years of opportunity.

My point was that all of those can fly through ships like that.
If I see someone run or fly into someone else really fast, I consider that a speed blitz. If Surfer were to to that to Superman, it wouldn't necessarily work due to Supes's durability. If he were to do it to Zatanna, however, it would most likely kill her.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Exactly, but has SS done it in battle?



My point was that all of those can fly through ships like that.


So speedblitz! What do you want someone to hold your hand and say that, I am failing to see your point.

So we have seen SS do it several times now, you have even acknowledged it but you refute it becuase its not a superman ss? What is it exactly?

Regardless, if they move that fast its fairly safe to believe they can think that fast and thats where the win comes from with their powersets.

Surfer has no real feats to indicate his combat speed (dodging, punching, etc), but he has utilized his flight speed to pull off a speedblitz in fights before...

http://img151.imagevenue.com/loc30/th_14493_universal.jpg

Imo, Hal would be stalemating Surfer for a long time. That fight could really go either way. That leaves DR. FATE, Orion, J'onn, and Pre-Crisis Captain Marvel to beat on the other guys. I say Team A takes the majority, however Team B won't.

Team A can take majority, team b loses its pants. So sayeth Batdude132 so it be done.

Regardless though Hal is an ass trumpet to SS

Originally posted by Soleran
Team A can take majority, team b loses its pants. So sayeth Batdude123 so it be done.

Regardless though Hal is an ass trumpet to SS

"Ass trumpet?"

Originally posted by batdude123
"Ass trumpet?" Spur of the moment! Besides I still don't agree with team A.

an . . . ass-trumpet?

sol, name a feat that you think ss can accomplish but a gl can't.

Originally posted by leonidas
an . . . ass-trumpet?

sol, name a feat that you think ss can accomplish but a gl can't.


Who cares, a GL can do anything the writer wants same with SS.

How about Take a punch from Superman without any shields up

Originally posted by Soleran
Spur of the moment! Besides I still don't agree with team A.

Well I don't agree with the heralds beating team A. schmoll

Originally posted by leonidas
an . . . ass-trumpet?

sol, name a feat that you think ss can accomplish but a gl can't.

Leo, I could name a lot. However, I could name a lot of things that a GL could do that Silver Surfer couldn't.

Originally posted by batdude123
Well I don't agree with the heralds beating team A. schmoll

You're still young don't worry, give it time!

Originally posted by batdude123
Leo, I could name a lot.
Name them.

Originally posted by Validus
Name them.

I will later. Sign ups are NOW!

Originally posted by Validus
Name them.


UH oh someone got called out!

Originally posted by batdude123
Leo, I could name a lot. However, I could name a lot of things that a GL could do that Silver Surfer couldn't.

well, name one.

$#@!% val!! always lurking, always looking to steal my thunder!!

tread carefully bats . . .

Originally posted by batdude123
I will later.
I bet.

Like Soleran said, GL can do anything his writers want. Usually that entails making them look like an idiot. Talk about heralds not being written correctly? GL's are the kings of that area.

yep.

I certainly don't disagree which is why most most my discussion came down to speed and speed of thought.

Oh and Batdude123 was probably just saying that for me anyway, he saw me getting abused and just felt bad!

OMG haven't I told you mercy is for the weak Batdude123!

He can analyze and manipulate matter and energy, and restructure or animate matter at will, even transmuting the elements. He can heal living beings (though he cannot raise the dead), and has proven capable of revitalizing or evolving organic life on a planetwide scale. He can alter the size of himself or of other matter, cast illusions, manipulate gravity, absorb and discharge most forms of energy, fire energy blasts, form and manipulate energy constructs, and can phase through solid matter. Now some of those a GL can do, but not all.

I dont know why you people are arquing about SS not being able to speedblits, everyone can speedblits but it would depend on your opponennts, if they are more stronger or have some sufficient ability to block your blits, then you wouldnt be able to proceed the blits. SS is very fast and posesses over 100 class strength, he could easily speedblits over the X-men but would not be able to do it against say Darkseid or Thanos who posesses capabilities above him.

Regarding this fight majority is won by Jla, Morg and Terrax posesses incredible strength however they mostly rely on their brute strength as shown on all their fight which would be quite a disadvantage fighting this versatile Char. Firelord, Nova and SS have more of a chance ko'ing some of this char. I dont really know much on some of the Jlas Char. to fully give a better opinion.

Regarding the fight with Thor and SS, I say he didnt go all out, because he was there to help a friend, and he wasnt really injured at Thors attack as stated by Warlock event dough he fall unconcious.

Originally posted by batdude123
He can analyze and manipulate matter and energy, and restructure or animate matter at will, even transmuting the elements. He can heal living beings (though he cannot raise the dead), and has proven capable of revitalizing or evolving organic life on a planetwide scale. He can alter the size of himself or of other matter, cast illusions, manipulate gravity, absorb and discharge most forms of energy, fire energy blasts, form and manipulate energy constructs, and can phase through solid matter. Now some of those a GL can do, but not all.
Nice copy and paste from wikipedia. GL's have done all of those before.

Originally posted by Validus
Nice copy and paste from wikipedia. GL's have done all of those before.

No, actually I got from my Marvel encyclopedia smartass. No, GLs have not done all that before.

Change the lineup and we have a battle. Add Stephen to the heralds, as well as Stardust and BRB. Since the JLA apparently has people who were on the JSA, rather than JLA. Make it fair people.

adding more people to the heralds lineup would make it a crushing defeat rather then just a simple victory:P

er, all of them have been jla members in the past. and it's HERALDS, uni. uni my man, if you don't like the thread . . .

it's been given some decent discussion though.

Dr.Fate was a JLA member Post crisis?? If so, my bad.

Here's some more stuff a GL can't do:

His (Silver Surfer) senses enable him to detect objects and energies light years away, and to perceive matter and energy in a subatomic detail; he can even see through time, and with concentration can achieve limited perception of past and future events in his general vicinity. The Surfer has demonstrated limited telepathic ability on occasion, and has proven able to influence human emotion and sensation.

If the heralds are written to use even a 3rd of their more exotic powers they'd turn JLA into grapefruit

yep. quite a while ago, but i was just looking for a closer fight. the point of the thread was to try and show that just because they're heralds doesn't mean they win EVERYTIME against just top-tier heroes.

sometimes the top tier guys can play hardball too.

Originally posted by superbatman86
If the heralds are written to use even a 3rd of their more exotic powers they'd turn JLA into grapefruit

Originally posted by Accel
If I see someone run or fly into someone else really fast, I consider that a speed blitz. If Surfer were to to that to Superman, it wouldn't necessarily work due to Supes's durability. If he were to do it to Zatanna, however, it would most likely kill her.

In that case, anyone could do that. Run really fast with a fist out. Zatanna included.

*pots*

Simple as that.

Originally posted by superbatman86
If the heralds are written to use even a 3rd of their more exotic powers they'd turn JLA into grapefruit

Or Dr. Fate sends them to his own dimension.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
In that case, anyone could do that. Run really fast with a fist out. Zatanna included.

*pots*

Simple as that.


Um what the hell is an IMP from Flash then, not much else, but its there.

Originally posted by Soleran
So speedblitz! What do you want someone to hold your hand and say that, I am failing to see your point.

So we have seen SS do it several times now, you have even acknowledged it but you refute it becuase its not a superman ss? What is it exactly?

Regardless, if they move that fast its fairly safe to believe they can think that fast and thats where the win comes from with their powersets.

"Fairly safe to say", is different that it has been shown.

It hasn't, and your so called "example" is dubious.

Show something...

Originally posted by batdude123
No, actually I got from my Marvel encyclopedia smartass. No, GLs have not done all that before.
Transmutating elements is done every issue. Their costumes? That's matter manipulation.

Revitalizing matter on a planetary scale? Kyle Rayner and Kilowog in the Rann/Thanagar war.

Alter his size or others? John Stewart in recent JLA Classified. Hal and Kyle numerous times. Kyle once changed his own DNA giving himself natural super powers for a short time.

Cast illusions? Hal Jordan Vs Hector Hammond

Manipulate gravity? Hal usually does this when he schools Dr. Polaris. Polaris once absorbed all magnetic energy in the universe and he still couldn't beat Hal.

Absorbing and firing energy? Constructs? Phasing? Obvious abilities.

Detect objects and energies light years away? Ring does it for him. Read Cosmic Odyssey

Perceive matter and energy in a subatomic detail? Again, ring does it for him. Hal did this during a Pre-IC issue with his nephew.

He can even see through time? Hal has traveled through time.

Demonstrated limited telepathic ability on occasion? Green Lantern: Mosaic #5 or 6? I forget.

Seriously, you're not about to school me in GL knowledge or anything like that.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
"Fairly safe to say", is different that it has been shown.

It hasn't, and your so called "example" is dubious.

Show something...


No its not safe to say, thats simply your interpretation. Something has been shown stop sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich You don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't count.

Originally posted by Soleran
Um what the hell is an IMP from Flash then, not much else, but its there.

Flash has far more fighting speed feats than SS or any herald.

Still waiting for your examples....with over 30 years under his belt, you should have a lot more than "it's fairly safe to say..."

Originally posted by Validus
Transmutating elements is done every issue. Their costumes? That's matter manipulation.

Revitalizing matter on a planetary scale? Kyle Rayner and Kilowog in the Rann/Thanagar war.

Alter his size or others? John Stewart in recent JLA Classified. Hal and Kyle numerous times. Kyle once changed his own DNA giving himself natural super powers for a short time.

Cast illusions? Hal Jordan Vs Hector Hammond

Manipulate gravity? Hal usually does this when he schools Dr. Polaris. Polaris once absorbed all magnetic energy in the universe and he still couldn't beat Hal.

Absorbing and firing energy? Constructs? Phasing? Obvious abilities.

Detect objects and energies light years away? Ring does it for him. Read Cosmic Odyssey

Perceive matter and energy in a subatomic detail? Again, ring does it for him. Hal did this during a Pre-IC issue with his nephew.

He can even see through time? Hal has traveled through time.

Demonstrated limited telepathic ability on occasion? Green Lantern: Mosaic #5 or 6? I forget.

Seriously, you're not about to school me in GL knowledge or anything like that.

Have they traveled millions of times the speed of light?

Originally posted by Soleran
No its not safe to say, thats simply your interpretation. Something has been shown stop sticking your head in the sand like an ostrich You don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't count.

You're simply grasping at straws. Years of character development, and yet SS hasn't done what you are implying.

Clear off your cosmic fanboy blinders and see what hasn't transpired.

Because you want it to happen, it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Originally posted by batdude123
Have they traveled millions of times the speed of light?
Kyle went to the edge of the universe and back in under a day. Pretty fast, no? They call it a transluminal warp or something like that.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You're simply grasping at straws. Years of character development, and yet SS hasn't done what you are implying.

Clear off your cosmic fanboy blinders and see what hasn't transpired.

Because you want it to happen, it doesn't mean it's going to happen.

We have whats called a "reasonable" level of certainty that remains. Unless you can clear that instantly you seem foolish, yet again.

Originally posted by Validus
Kyle went to the edge of the universe and back in under a day. Pretty fast, no? They call it a transluminal warp or something like that.

Interesting. Do they wield the "power cosmic?"

Good, I'm glad Surfer can't do anything that a GL can't do. Thanks Val!

Originally posted by Soleran
We have whats called a "reasonable" level of certainty that remains. Unless you are can clear that instantly you seem foolish, yet again.

So in other words you are yet saying again that you can't prove anything, right?

Foolish is the one who brings up arguments without proof, like yourself.

You've degraded this into childish insults already saying enough about your position.

Thanks for playing!

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So in other words you are yet saying again that you can't prove anything, right?

Foolish is the one who brings up arguments without proof, like yourself.

You've degraded this into childish insults already saying enough about your position.

Thanks for playing!

You brought proof against yourself

Originally posted by batdude123
Interesting. Do they wield the "power cosmic?"

Well, they wield a cosmic power.

does ss wield gl energy . . .?

and that's why people don't debate with val re: gl's.

Originally posted by Soleran
You brought proof against yourself

You get any proof yet?

Doesn't look like it... Keep on with your speculation...

Since I know there won't be any, we're done.

Originally posted by leonidas
does ss wield gl energy . . .?

and that's why people don't debate with val re: gl's.



I know, I'm glad that GL can do anything that SS can do.

Originally posted by batdude123
I know, I'm glad that GL can do anything that SS can do.

I knew that when someone showed me a zombie GL.

Now THAT was insane.

spetznaz would have been happy too . . .

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You get any proof yet?

Doesn't look like it... Keep on with your speculation...

Since I know there won't be any, we're done.

Oh constantly a silly boy, I have discussed it. You seem to like your hide out, stay there it suite you

Originally posted by leonidas


spetznaz would have been happy too . . .

Man it SUCKS he had to be on a business trip when the tourney was starting.

Originally posted by batdude123
Man it SUCKS he had to be on a business trip when the tourney was starting.
We knew you were bluffing.

Originally posted by Validus
We knew you were bluffing.

At least he came around unlike others arguing a battle without proof and swearing they discussed it.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
At least he came around unlike others arguing a battle without proof and swearing they discussed it.

I was arguing for the JLA in this thread since the beginning.

psst -- he wasn't talking to you, bats . . .

surfer bio info.

In addition, his body can move and react at metahuman velocities, he routinely navigates asteroid fields and attacks entire amaradas of starships at near light speed while maintaining surgical precision.

Originally posted by Inhuman
surfer bio info.

In addition, his body can move and react at metahuman velocities, he routinely navigates asteroid fields and attacks entire amaradas of starships at near light speed while maintaining surgical precision.

Pish posh. A Lantern can do that in his sleep.

Originally posted by batdude123
Pish posh. A Lantern can do that in his sleep.

That was to the quote of surfer being as fast a H2H fighter as thor.
Plus the quotes that he never speed blitzes.
But yea GL can do these things in his sleep. No prob.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
In that case, anyone could do that. Run really fast with a fist out. Zatanna included.

*pots*

Simple as that.
True, but does Z have super-speed of any sort without using a spell first?

If not, Surfer can take her out before she finishes saying even one-syllable spells.

Originally posted by Accel
True, but does Z have super-speed of any sort without using a spell first?

If not, Surfer can take her out before she finishes saying even one-syllable spells.

Not that I know of. There isn't any certainty that SS would go after her first though. Any hesitation on any of the heralds part and she can utter the word.

Had this been a bloodlusted battle, I would have put more consideration into it, but seeing as it's not, and SS is a pacifist, I see Zatanna pulling it off.

True. It really depends if Surfer is willing to take out Zatanna right away. If he isn't, the heralds are in big trouble.

Common knowledge, however, is part of each forum battle, meaning Surfer would know that Zatanna poses the biggest threat if he doesn't take her out right away.

Originally posted by Accel
True. It really depends if Surfer is willing to take out Zatanna right away. If he isn't, the heralds are in big trouble.

Common knowledge, however, is part of each forum battle, meaning Surfer would know that Zatanna poses the biggest threat if he doesn't take her out right away.

Team B

firestorm (ronnie)
zatanna
triumph
zauriel
superman

He'd still have to decide. Go for the magical human? The fallen Angel with the magical weapon? Give Superman a heads up to attack first? Firestorm time to pull off any kind of attack? Or maybe Triumph time to drain them?

Each one is a threat in their own way. Chances are they would try and go for Superman first since he would be "bragging rights" should anyone actually beat him.

Well, it's not like the heralds have to attack each opponent one at a time and Surfer was never known for letting his pride get to him. He could take out Zatanna first while his teammates go for the rest.

Originally posted by Accel
Well, it's not like the heralds have to attack each opponent one at a time and Surfer was never known for letting his pride get to him. He could take out Zatanna first while his teammates go for the rest.

This is so painful to read, people place the heralds as retards. Cosmic Awareness allows any of the heralds to identify the target before the fight.

Rings also have to recharge, guess what heralds don't. In other words gl's are foocked

where have you seen any herald outside ss use cosmic awareness?

Originally posted by leonidas
where have you seen any herald outside ss use cosmic awareness?

Who cares we can identify one, who not only uses cosmic PIS awarenessI mean but also speedblitz.

So does it really matter how many use it, no it doesn't.

Originally posted by Soleran
Who cares we can identify one, who not only uses cosmic PIS awarenessI mean but also speedblitz.

So does it really matter how many use it, no it doesn't.

He just called you on your bullsh*t and you just got shut down.

Originally posted by batdude123
He just called you on your bullsh*t and you just got shut down.


Not mine, the writers. Wait I'm sorry was that a cry for help to tag on someone else, yes it was. Batdude123, eat it In the end simply acknowledging that PIS means it happens enough its a normal feat and the JLA die

Originally posted by Soleran
Not mine, the writers. Wait I'm sorry was that a cry for help to tag on someone else, yes it was. Batdude123, eat it In the end simply acknowledging that PIS means it happens enough its a normal feat and the JLA die

Nope, team A wins.

Originally posted by batdude123
Nope, team A wins.

Maybe, maybe........

Originally posted by Soleran
Who cares we can identify one, who not only uses cosmic PIS awarenessI mean but also speedblitz.

So does it really matter how many use it, no it doesn't.



so it was herald not heralds. just checking . . .

i still don't buy your 'poor writing' for all the heralds. gl is at least as poorly written. superman almost never uses his pis-vo. cap marvel almost never uses his magic lightning to to combine himself with another superhero to increase his powers. dr strange -- cripes, don't get me started on strange! fate (classic is whom i intended) is connected to a freaking lord of order who is more on galactus' level than the ss's! that dude should NEVER be surprised or defenseless -- against almost anyone.

i really don't know what else you expect from the heralds. ss is the only one of the group i listed to show real versatility. the others were almost elementals -- air walker, terrax, firelord/nova. ss went beyond them all by a long shot. morg is just a beast -- brute force and cosmic destruction. very much like a low level thanos. poor writing can always be called. consistent showings say that to write all of them the way you would like would make THAT showing the pis.

Leo!

droolio

Team A matches up with the herald team nicely.

I say they split, 50/50.

Originally posted by batdude123
Pish posh. A Lantern can do that in his sleep.



Lantern's don't have superhuman reflexive speed, nor can they move their limbs at FTL velocity.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Leo!

droolio

nice to see you spending a bit more time 'round here as well, cc.

and your 50/10 split was my first impression. maybe team A 6/10. as in all these kinds of match ups, it depends a lot on who tackles who.

Zattana's spells aren't the be-all and end-all. Sufficient power can overcome them.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube


Lantern's don't have superhuman reflexive speed, nor can they move their limbs at FTL velocity.

Yeah they do. The rings give them heightened awarness and the rings also make moves without the user having to will it.

Originally posted by leonidas
nice to see you spending a bit more time 'round here as well, cc.

and your 50/10 split was my first impression. maybe team A 6/10. as in all these kinds of match ups, it depends a lot on who tackles who.

Surfer is obviously the most powerful/versatile on his team.
Nova's probably second.

Who would you say is the top dog on team A?

Originally posted by batdude123
Yeah they do. The rings give them heightened awarness and the rings also make moves without the user having to will it. I know about the auto shields and cosmic awareness, however, GL's don't possess superhuman reflexes, and they cannot think or move their limbs at superhuman speed.

That's the purpose of the auto shields.

hard to say. in this arena, magic may be a trump card so perhaps fate. orion is ridiculously powerful and with a motherbox far more versatile than most think. that showing in the hunger against ss really WAS silly. i hate byrne. not sure of the herald's immunity to tp. i know ss's is strong. i seem to recall fl and nova both being controlled in the past. if that's the case, j'onzz could seriously f the heralds up.

each of team a is strong in a unique way.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Surfer is obviously the most powerful/versatile on his team.
Nova's probably second.

Who would you say is the top dog on team A?

Easily Fate.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I know about the auto shields and cosmic awareness, however, GL's don't possess superhuman reflexes, and they cannot think or move their limbs at superhuman speed.

That's the purpose of the auto shields.

The ring can allow them to have super human reflexes.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I know about the auto shields and cosmic awareness, however, GL's don't possess superhuman reflexes, and they cannot think or move their limbs at superhuman speed.

That's the purpose of the auto shields.



wheer have i heard that before . . .



hehehe. your on your own this time . . .

Originally posted by batdude123
Easily Fate. Surfer might not be able to take him. If that's the case, Team A will win the majority.Originally posted by batdude123
The ring can allow them to have super human reflexes.
Has this ever happened? I've seen GL's fly faster than light, but to my knowledge, increasing their thought speed and reflexes has never been done, and I read GL.

Originally posted by leonidas


wheer have i heard that before . . .



hehehe. your on your own this time . . . What ever happened to jrodslam?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube

Has this ever happened? I've seen GL's fly faster than light, but to my knowledge, increasing their thought speed and reflexes has never been done, and I read GL.

The ring itself allows the wearer to manuever around objects faster than the speed of light without having to will it.