Lucifer hits the Gauntlet !!!

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Lord Urizen
Vertigo's Lucifer, most of you know about him already. Check out Draco's Lucifer Respect Thread if you're unfamiliar.

Here's the list: (Not particularly in Heirarchical power order.....just one fight after another...can Lucifer progress to the end? )




1) Charon and Lawbringers from Negation (Crossgen Comics)- Can he singlehandedly defeat the entire Negation Empire?



2) Thanos with Classic IG plus Marvel cosmics- Lucifer enters Marvel Universe 616 where Thanos is God of that Reality. Can Lucifer defeat Thanos who will be allied with Galactus, Chaos and Order, Mistress Death, The Stranger, Love and Hate, and all the Celestials combined?

3) Abraxis with Ultamate Nullifiers Let's say Abraxis at full power with copies of Ultamate Nullifiers at his disposal. Can he delete Lucifer in battle, or will Lucifer come out on top?


4) The Disciple, Zera, Mammon, the Forgotten Ones, Abdiel, and the Man of Miracles- Can Lucifer defeat these entities from Spawn combined?


5) Kali and Urizen - at thier full power, both are above Death. Urizen devours spiritual energy, all kinds of spiritual energy, he has the ability to kill the imagination. Kali is the Goddess of Death and Destruction, the cycle of life and death, no God or Demon has ever beaten her yet. Will Lucifer be the first?


6) Bloodlusted Spectre Spectre is fkn furious and has a bone to pick with Lucifer. Is there any way Lucifer can neutralize Spectre, and if so, how?


7) Combined Forces of Heaven, Hell,and Greeworld- If Lucifer defeats round 4, let's say thier resurrected.....excluding God, Satan, and Urizen.......can Lucifer defeat the combined might of both Heaven and Hell together? This would include Spawn (any age), Angela, all redeemers, all the forgotten ones, Abdiel, The Disciple, Zera, Malebolgia, Mammon etc. Anyone who has ever been a part of any of these three realms !


8) Bloodlusted Micheal Can Lucifer outsmart, defeat, destroy, or surpass his brother in any way?



9) White Pheonix of the Crown - Can he destroy or subdue her?



10) Goddess Dawn with Sword She used this to cut off Ahura Mazda (God's) hand off. With this sword, is Dawn even capable of ending Lucifer, or would her attack be futile?



11)Darkseid with ALE, Parallex, Molecule Man, and Mr. Myx Can Lucifer outsmart and defeat these reality controllers?



12) Saint of Killers Is Lucifer subject to this guy's attacks?



13) The Great Evil Beast- Could Lucifer trick the GEB into defeating itself?


14) Classic Beyonder- Could Lucifer defeat him in ANY way shape or form?

lilnutta12
R U FU*IN MADE NO WAY DOUBT HE MAKES IT PAST 2
NOT WITH 1 CELESTIAL THATS 2 MUCH FOR HIM

OR HAS HE SOME SORT OF ULTIMATE POWER I DONT NO ABOUT COZ HE AINT THAT POWERFUL FROM WOT I No

Xplosive
I would give White Pheonix of the Crown in the last place.

I am sure Lucifer wouldn't be able to defeat The Great Evil Beast, Classic Beyonder and White Pheonix of the Crown.

kevdude
He would defeat all of them except Phoenix of the White Crown, and The Great Evil Beast, and he might get stalled at Michael. The Classic Beyonder showed nothing that Lucifer couldn't do and he could do 10x better.

Takion
4

Thanos_6383
Wow.this is one hell of a gauntlet big grin

bigbran
wheres thanos with hotu?

bigbran
id say kali and urizen.
if urizen was at full power he could do it by himself. this guy had heven and hell shitting there pants at his weakest.

Mordum
Hes not getting past 2. Common if it takes place in the marvel universe he has no real authority he gets crushed.

Mider
1) Charon and Lawbringers from Negation (Crossgen Comics)- Can he singlehandedly defeat the entire Negation Empire?-although he's an amazingly powerful character he still took 10,000 years to conqure his universe lucifer made his own multiverse



2) Thanos with Classic IG plus Marvel cosmics- Lucifer enters Marvel Universe 616 where Thanos is God of that Reality. Can Lucifer defeat Thanos who will be allied with Galactus, Chaos and Order, Mistress Death, The Stranger, Love and Hate, and all the Celestials combined? lucifer already has power beyond the IG he can make half a multiverse most people say so anyway and the cosmics wouldnt be a hassle for him at all

3) Abraxis with Ultamate Nullifiers Let's say Abraxis at full power with copies of Ultamate Nullifiers at his disposal. Can he delete Lucifer in battle, or will Lucifer come out on top?lucifer is also beyond death you know that endless death showed up and he said you have no claim on me and then she was scared of him killing her


4) The Disciple, Zera, Mammon, the Forgotten Ones, Abdiel, and the Man of Miracles- Can Lucifer defeat these entities from Spawn combined? i dont know about this one man of miricles is close to image gods powers this one is to much just with man of miricles alone


5) Kali and Urizen - at thier full power, both are above Death. Urizen devours spiritual energy, all kinds of spiritual energy, he has the ability to kill the imagination. Kali is the Goddess of Death and Destruction, the cycle of life and death, no God or Demon has ever beaten her yet. Will Lucifer be the first? kali wont be able to kill him death has no claim on him what can she do to him, and urizen well unknown was he at full power when spawn defeated him but he did have all the powers of nature sooooooooo lucifer might lose to this guy......but lucifer once rewrote the rules of the universe just to defeat a guy who was unkillable or something like that the silkman i believe was his name


6) Bloodlusted Spectre Spectre is fkn furious and has a bone to pick with Lucifer. Is there any way Lucifer can neutralize Spectre, and if so, how? lucifer has met the spectre when he was moving the moon spectre said what you doing and lucifer said go bother someone else and spectre went away sad


7) Combined Forces of Heaven, Hell,and Greeworld- If Lucifer defeats round 4, let's say thier resurrected.....excluding God, Satan, and Urizen.......can Lucifer defeat the combined might of both Heaven and Hell together? This would include Spawn (any age), Angela, all redeemers, all the forgotten ones, Abdiel, The Disciple, Zera, Malebolgia, Mammon etc. Anyone who has ever been a part of any of these three realms ! meh this might just be to much for him, can these guys make half a multiverse though but the greenworld is overkill


8) Bloodlusted Micheal Can Lucifer outsmart, defeat, destroy, or surpass his brother in any way? he already has shown to beat him hasnt he only reason he won was cause lucifer was all messed up and the presance was backing him



9) White Pheonix of the Crown - Can he destroy or subdue her? depends, can she make a whole mutliverse by herself, if not she would lose, if she is megaversal like GS said so should lucifer be megaversal as well since he is second in power only to the presance



10) Goddess Dawn with Sword She used this to cut off Ahura Mazda (God's) hand off. With this sword, is Dawn even capable of ending Lucifer, or would her attack be futile?-he can still rewrite reality cant he



11)Darkseid with ALE, Parallex, Molecule Man, and Mr. Myx Can Lucifer outsmart and defeat these reality controllers? the ale defeated a enemy of the source but lucifer treats the source like a nobody, unknown if he would win, parallax he would win against, molecule man he would womp and mr Myx he would smack around



12) Saint of Killers Is Lucifer subject to this guy's attacks? can saint kill immortals he can also ust rewrite reality to make it so that the saints powers are diffrent



13) The Great Evil Beast- Could Lucifer trick the GEB into defeating itself? tricking it unknown is it as smart as the presance if so he would lose but the GEB went away after having a talk with swampthing soooooooo you decide


14) Classic Beyonder- Could Lucifer defeat him in ANY way shape or form? no........nope.............lucifer would go down hard

Takion
Kali is outside of creation if Lucifer ever recreates the universe.

Mider
since when is she outside of creation? silkman was also older then the universe i think

Mider
ill try and check it out so you wont think im full of it and bring back feats

Takion
Originally posted by Mider
since when is she outside of creation? silkman was also older then the universe i think
Milkie said it, he knows a helluva a lot more about Spawn than me.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by kevdude
He would defeat all of them except Phoenix of the White Crown, and The Great Evil Beast, and he might get stalled at Michael. The Classic Beyonder showed nothing that Lucifer couldn't do and he could do 10x better.

I agree with you except about Classic Beyonder.

Classic Beyonder is wayyy more powerful than Lucifer, he has the power of the comic book writers themselves, and millions of times the power of the marvel multiverse. Living Tribunal couldn't do jack shit to him, even though LT is supposed to be back by The One Above All.

Mider
LT lost to reed richards he's a chump

Mider
Some of Lucifer's feats:
- Against the Silk Man, an entity that existed before the current universe was created, Lucifer altered the rules that let the Silk Man exist in the current universe so that he was banished from it.
- Survived the "detonation" of Michael when he was killed for the first time. The energy was enough for Lucifer to create a multiverse from it.
- Shaped his universe: formed suns, galaxies, concepts like time, life, and so on.
- Created a soul for a demon as a punishment so that the demon would become a damned soul instead of being extinguised by death.
- Folded the letter of passage through space and time so that it appeared on every world in the original creation.
- His presence destroyed the Mansions of the Silence (a realm where souls that didn't belong to Heaven or Hell went).
- Turned Elaine and her friend Mona into guardian spirits (basically gods for a world without gods).
- Destroyed the Titans who took over the role of God by killing them before they became God.
- Destroyed his duinum, a copy created by the Titans whose touch would cancel them both out.
- Killed Michael while infected by Fenris.
- Killed Fenris.

An additional feat by Michael that I thought was cool was that he maintained Creation after Yahweh left by rewriting Yahweh's name on every atom of creation.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Mider
1) Charon and Lawbringers from Negation (Crossgen Comics)- Can he singlehandedly defeat the entire Negation Empire?-although he's an amazingly powerful character he still took 10,000 years to conqure his universe lucifer made his own multiverse


I agree. Charon is one powerful dude, so are the Lawbringers, they are like Gods themselves, but it did take Charon 10,00 years to take over the universe. But that may also be because he doesn't violate free will. He uses persuation to get followers, plus he took over that universe right after becoming his state of power. Still, I think he loses to Lucifer.



Originally posted by Mider
2) Thanos with Classic IG plus Marvel cosmics- Lucifer enters Marvel Universe 616 where Thanos is God of that Reality. Can Lucifer defeat Thanos who will be allied with Galactus, Chaos and Order, Mistress Death, The Stranger, Love and Hate, and all the Celestials combined? lucifer already has power beyond the IG he can make half a multiverse most people say so anyway and the cosmics wouldnt be a hassle for him at all


If Lucifer can create half a multiverse, then yes that would prove that his creational powers are above IG entirely. But can Lucifer control that multiverse he created as well? Thanos was able to control everything in the MU 616 universe.....






Originally posted by Mider
3) Abraxis with Ultamate Nullifiers Let's say Abraxis at full power with copies of Ultamate Nullifiers at his disposal. Can he delete Lucifer in battle, or will Lucifer come out on top?lucifer is also beyond death you know that endless death showed up and he said you have no claim on me and then she was scared of him killing her


Ultamate Nullifier doesn't kill things, it DELETES them...there's a difference, It's not about death, it's about erasing people and things from existance period. However, i know that one may not be enough to delete Lucifer. But thousands? ehh...im still unsure here.....







Originally posted by Mider
4) The Disciple, Zera, Mammon, the Forgotten Ones, Abdiel, and the Man of Miracles- Can Lucifer defeat these entities from Spawn combined? i dont know about this one man of miricles is close to image gods powers this one is to much just with man of miricles alone


I'm undecided here. The way the Disciple has been hyped, he seems to be on a level of pure strength that may rival the Spectre's or even Micheal's. Zera....omg....she's been murdering the entire host of the Forgotten Ones (a host of high order angels who are like individual Mammons), and Abdiel has a sword that could even slay immortals.......






Originally posted by Mider
5) Kali and Urizen - at thier full power, both are above Death. Urizen devours spiritual energy, all kinds of spiritual energy, he has the ability to kill the imagination. Kali is the Goddess of Death and Destruction, the cycle of life and death, no God or Demon has ever beaten her yet. Will Lucifer be the first? kali wont be able to kill him death has no claim on him what can she do to him, and urizen well unknown was he at full power when spawn defeated him but he did have all the powers of nature sooooooooo lucifer might lose to this guy......but lucifer once rewrote the rules of the universe just to defeat a guy who was unkillable or something like that the silkman i believe was his name



Kali was said to be outside creation. She is superior to the laws of her universe, the same way Second Age Spawn was or the way Thanos is outside the loop of Destiny in Marvel. Rewriting the rules of reality may not affect Kali. So far no God or Demon has defeated Kali, not to mention that she ATE an entire army of demons. She also ate her own husband Shiva, who is also a God himself. She was able to "crush Spawn like a cockroach".....she may have a great chance against Lucifer.

Urizen at full power ...wow......I think he'd take Lucifer down from what we know about the legends of his full power. He's so damn durable is the thing.......and he cannot be killed or deleted from existance....the only way to subdue him would be to defeat him somehow first, and then contain him.......and btw Urizen was NOT at full power when Spawn and Angela defeated him, he was severely depowered since he was JUST released from the Void that he was imprisoned in for millenia. Lucifer is a powerful dude, but he is still a spiritual being. Urizen devours spirits and devours individuality and imagination.

Also there is no way that Lucifer can "trick' Urizen into doing ANYTHING....Urizen is not in the least bit interested of striking deals, or making ANY assossiations...that is why even Hell is afraid of him.







Originally posted by Mider
6) Bloodlusted Spectre Spectre is fkn furious and has a bone to pick with Lucifer. Is there any way Lucifer can neutralize Spectre, and if so, how? lucifer has met the spectre when he was moving the moon spectre said what you doing and lucifer said go bother someone else and spectre went away sad


Okay lol I'll budge here and say I agree. laughing







Originally posted by Mider
7) Combined Forces of Heaven, Hell,and Greeworld- If Lucifer defeats round 4, let's say thier resurrected.....excluding God, Satan, and Urizen.......can Lucifer defeat the combined might of both Heaven and Hell together? This would include Spawn (any age), Angela, all redeemers, all the forgotten ones, Abdiel, The Disciple, Zera, Malebolgia, Mammon etc. Anyone who has ever been a part of any of these three realms ! meh this might just be to much for him, can these guys make half a multiverse though but the greenworld is overkill



Doesn't matter if they can make a multiverse or not. Being able to create to that extant doesn't mean you can also control or destroy that to that extant.

I think Lucifer would lose this.





Originally posted by Mider
8) Bloodlusted Micheal Can Lucifer outsmart, defeat, destroy, or surpass his brother in any way? he already has shown to beat him hasnt he only reason he won was cause lucifer was all messed up and the presance was backing him




So Lucifer can beat Micheal for sure?






Originally posted by Mider
9) White Pheonix of the Crown - Can he destroy or subdue her? depends, can she make a whole mutliverse by herself, if not she would lose, if she is megaversal like GS said so should lucifer be megaversal as well since he is second in power only to the presance




I doubt Lucifer can even touch her. White Pheonix of the Crown is the ultamate creation force. TOAA may just be the moderator over her, it's not even certain if TOAA even created the Marvel Megaverse himself.




Originally posted by Mider
10) Goddess Dawn with Sword She used this to cut off Ahura Mazda (God's) hand off. With this sword, is Dawn even capable of ending Lucifer, or would her attack be futile?-he can still rewrite reality cant he



What happens if Dawn cuts off his head before he can even rewrite the rules of reality? She cut off Ahura Mazda's hand, and he is immortal and nearly invincible. That sword is some strong shit.






Originally posted by Mider
11)Darkseid with ALE, Parallex, Molecule Man, and Mr. Myx Can Lucifer outsmart and defeat these reality controllers? the ale defeated a enemy of the source but lucifer treats the source like a nobody, unknown if he would win, parallax he would win against, molecule man he would womp and mr Myx he would smack around


But Can Darkseid with ALE force Lucifer into submission? this is interesting, because Lucifer is the embodyment of Yahweh's will, and the ALE guarantees control over one's will.......






Originally posted by Mider
12) Saint of Killers Is Lucifer subject to this guy's attacks? can saint kill immortals he can also ust rewrite reality to make it so that the saints powers are diffrent



Not if Saint of Killers kills him first. But who knows......





Originally posted by Mider
13) The Great Evil Beast- Could Lucifer trick the GEB into defeating itself? tricking it unknown is it as smart as the presance if so he would lose but the GEB went away after having a talk with swampthing soooooooo you decide



I'm undecided here.







Originally posted by Mider
14) Classic Beyonder- Could Lucifer defeat him in ANY way shape or form? no........nope.............lucifer would go down hard




I agree 100%

Mider
i dont know how you can keep from being deleted but i know that a being who was below eternity became to powerful for the ultimate nullifier, the thing with silkman he also existed outside of this universe but lucifer made is to he had to exist INSIDE and thus he kicked him out and never let him back in. i think he can controll the half he creates he's the one who shapes it the demigoric power only makes the energy lucifer shapes it to his will, i dont know if he can take on the ALE all i know is that he treats the source like a nobody and the ALE had to be given to the being who was the enemy of the source to kill it orion didnt just say hay die and it happend he had to give it to him to kill him, i might be wrong about spectre it depends how much power the presance gives him, and when spectre was rouge he almost took out all heaven and hell but the presance had to stop him personally, against dawn and her sword unknown, did you find out if she has long range attacks?

Thanos_6383
Originally posted by Mider
LT lost to reed richards he's a chump

laughing Poor LT.

Mider
LT once said he'd kick my butt if i didnt shut up i said id hire the spectre to kick his i never got another call from him again LT i mean jk

Cosmic Cube
That list is wacked out.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Mider
Some of Lucifer's feats:
- Against the Silk Man, an entity that existed before the current universe was created, Lucifer altered the rules that let the Silk Man exist in the current universe so that he was banished from it.
- Survived the "detonation" of Michael when he was killed for the first time. The energy was enough for Lucifer to create a multiverse from it.
- Shaped his universe: formed suns, galaxies, concepts like time, life, and so on.
- Created a soul for a demon as a punishment so that the demon would become a damned soul instead of being extinguised by death.
- Folded the letter of passage through space and time so that it appeared on every world in the original creation.
- His presence destroyed the Mansions of the Silence (a realm where souls that didn't belong to Heaven or Hell went).
- Turned Elaine and her friend Mona into guardian spirits (basically gods for a world without gods).
- Destroyed the Titans who took over the role of God by killing them before they became God.
- Destroyed his duinum, a copy created by the Titans whose touch would cancel them both out.
- Killed Michael while infected by Fenris.
- Killed Fenris.

An additional feat by Michael that I thought was cool was that he maintained Creation after Yahweh left by rewriting Yahweh's name on every atom of creation.


Thanks for listing his feats Mider, I really need to learn more about him.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That list is wacked out.

How so ?erm

Cosmic Cube
Beyonder, GEB, and White Crown are WAY beyond his reach.

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How so ?erm
Darksied and Mxy are after Phoenix of the White Crown? Someone doesn't know who the Phoenix of the White Crown is.

She's unfriggin beatable (literally).

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Darksied and Mxy are after Phoenix of the White Crown? Someone doesn't know who the Phoenix of the White Crown is.

She's unfriggin beatable (literally).

Um...did you READ the beginning of the thread? It says (Gauntlet is in no particular order....can Lucifer defeat the entire gauntlet, regardless of who is more powerful than who.)

Cosmic Cube
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Um...did you READ the beginning of the thread? It says (Gauntlet is in no particular order....can Lucifer defeat the entire gauntlet, regardless of who is more powerful than who.)

embarrasment

Please forgive me, master.

Oh yeah, the answer is hell no. I'm not 100% sure if he could take Thanos.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Beyonder, GEB, and White Crown are WAY beyond his reach.


Then that is settled.....I beleive they are way out of his reach as well wink

I included them because I wanted to see who would argue that Lucifer can still beat those powerhouses.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
embarrasment

Please forgive me, master.


laughing All is Forgiven

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mider
14) Classic Beyonder- Could Lucifer defeat him in ANY way shape or form? no........nope.............lucifer would go down hard

And would down hard against White Crown of the Phoenix.
White Crown of the Phoenix is practically what Classic Beyonder was, except White Crown of the Phoenix is true.

White Crown of the Phoenix can make more than just a Multiverse.

Like I said in the first post, I am sure he wouldn't be able to defeat The Great Evil Beast, Classic Beyonder and White Pheonix of the Crown.

Mider
what is the pheonix powers

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mider
what is the pheonix powers

White Pheonix of the Crown is the ultimate creation force.
Pheonix power is everything. Her power is absolute.

Thanos_6383
Thats scary shit there.Absolute power blink

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Xplosive
White Pheonix of the Crown is the ultimate creation force.
Pheonix power is everything. Her power is absolute.

Hmm...what does that make her polar opposite?(The First Foursaken/Fallen) - Oh yeah 2 days till another Uber Cosmic rises or in his case re-rises.

Soljer
Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I'm not 100% sure if he could take Thanos.

What the f**k? What the f**k? What the f**k? What the f**k? What the f**k?

Mr Master
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Hmm...what does that make her polar opposite?(The First Foursaken/Fallen) - Oh yeah 2 days till another Uber Cosmic rises or in his case re-rises.

The Goblin Force.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
White Pheonix of the Crown is the ultimate creation force.
Pheonix power is everything. Her power is absolute.

That's not exactly accurate is it.

There are others that are equal to and greater than the PF.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Goblin Force.

Point taken, but this new cosmic power looks far more promising. Can't wait to find out the name of this new mutant that learns of his new potential.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's not exactly accurate is it.

There are others that are equal to and greater than the PF.

And that is?

Am, no. There is no greater or equal to PF. PF power is immeasurable, limitless, absolute.

ExodusCloak
Originally posted by Xplosive
And that is?

Am, no. There is no greater or equal to PF. PF power is immeasurable, limitless, absolute.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/889/uncannyxmen104733md.jpg

2 days more days...hopefully he'll leave Earth and screw with the White Hot Room.

Xplosive
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/889/uncannyxmen104733md.jpg

2 days more days...hopefully he'll leave Earth and screw with the White Hot Room.

Can't wait.
And Mr Master said thare are others (plural) equal or greater to PF, which is very wrong.

Lord Urizen
So that Fallen guy, he's equal to Pheonix Force?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
And that is?

Am, no. There is no greater or equal to PF. PF power is immeasurable, limitless, absolute.

That is,

:Above the Pheonix Force:

TOAA
Thanos with the Heart of the Infinite
Living Tribunal
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet
Anyone with the Ultimate Nullifier(but especially Reed Richards)
Atleza 'the child" (probably)

:Equal to Phoenix Force:

Goblin Force
the Fallen
Unicron the "god" not the machine
Multiversal Abstracts of Eternity - Infinity and perhaps Death

Mider
the ultimate nullifier dont work on everyone, and unicron could only eat things, infinity and eternity get replaced by the PF the IG is not stronger then the PF the atlez child can just ancher a universe not make one.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
the ultimate nullifier dont work on everyone, and unicron could only eat things, infinity and eternity get replaced by the PF the IG is not stronger then the PF the atlez child can just ancher a universe not make one.

Alot of poeple don't know this but,
The Ultimate Nullifier destroyed and remade the ENTIRE Multiverse in the blink of an eye, I have the scans if you wish.

What can Phoenix do that Reed with the Nullifier can't?

Unicron can only eat universes your right, if this was a battle, that would come in handy, not building but destroying ENTIRE realities.

The Multiversal(not Universal)Abstracts of Eternity and Infinity are just as essential to existence as is the PF, --- replaced?

Magus with the an INCOMPLETE Infinity Gauntlet, negated the power of the Ultimate Nullifier, and once again the UN remade the ENTIRE Multiverse.

Contrary to popular beliefs around here the IG can be used outside the 616 Universe with it's full power. I recently found out this was a fact. During the Infinity War, Magus from an outside reality with an incomplete IG replaced the 616 Universe with a duplicate he made, AND, he had total control of his NEW 616 universe still with out the COMPLETE IG. Warlock with the same Incomplete Gauntlet repaired the situation. I have the scans for that too if you wish.

Atleza is just a child and the full extent of her powers is unknown for now,
I did add (maybe), but still, she anchors our universe without even trying, that says alot for a child that isn't even aware she holds the fate of the 616 universe in her hands.

Lord Urizen
Mr. Master do you think that Thanos with IG or Magus with IG can defeat Lucifer ?

Mider
it came out in X-men the end when a universe ends ALL the abstracts are replaced by the PF even the LT i still dont think that the IG would work on lucifer krona defeated grandmaster when he had the IG, and the ultimate nullifier also didnt work on the living monalith, thats suppose to be her main power is ancher the universe it never said she can do anything else, she can also do spells but thats all i know from reading thanos the end, and i really dont think that all the multiverse died just cause of galactus sounds stupid but maybe it did happen but yeah marvel did a dumb move with that.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Mr. Master do you think that Thanos with IG or Magus with IG can defeat Lucifer ?

Magus was more impressing than Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet evidently.

But no one was able to resist Thanos with the Gauntlet except for the Tribunal.

Magus created a duplicate of the 616 universe and merged it with the original 616 universe, this was done with 5 cosmic cubes. I posted this incorrectly in my previous post.
Reference: Infinity War#4

But he did warp the 616 Universe in his image with the INCOMPLETE Infinity Gauntlet!
Magus turn the Unltimate Nullifier(a MULITIVERSAL Destroying weapon)back on Quasar after Quasar tried to use it on Magus.
Reference: Infinity War#5

Warlock rectified the situation with the same INCOMPLETE Infinity Gauntlet
Reference: Infinity War#6

Ok

Now Lucifer.

I know he can create a Universe under his own power, and apparently that's as far as it goes.

With Michael's assitance he can create a multiverse.

The Ultimate Nullifier can destroy and remake the ENTIRE Multiverse to suit the wielder's wishes.

the Infinity Gauntlet Gauntlet can turn the nullification energies back on the person using the Nullifier.

What does this tell you.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
it came out in X-men the end when a universe ends ALL the abstracts are replaced by the PF even the LT i still dont think that the IG would work on lucifer krona defeated grandmaster when he had the IG, and the ultimate nullifier also didnt work on the living monalith, thats suppose to be her main power is ancher the universe it never said she can do anything else, she can also do spells but thats all i know from reading thanos the end, and i really dont think that all the multiverse died just cause of galactus sounds stupid but maybe it did happen but yeah marvel did a dumb move with that.

I have the END and I've read it thoroughly,

there are SIX issues

your gonna have to point out where you read that PF replaces anyone,

cause my friend,

Phoenix wasn't even mentioned ONCE.

Where did Galactus's name come from? I never mentioned Galactus.

Abraxas killed Knona with a kiss.
Can you also tell me where did Krona defeat Grandmaster with the IG, I would like to read that myself, not just take your or anyone's word for it.

And I also want to know where this Living Monolith story took place, I like to research claims personally.

I find it hard to believe that a weapon that can destroy and remake the Multiverse in the blink of an eye would not be able to affect any being.

Mider
well sir im not a comic book library i see things im very selective with what i buy cause and so i do hopefully like to believe people online since i would hope there not just making stuff up and im talking about x-men the end not thanos the end thats where pheonix was said to do that, if you have any questions about that ask galactic storm he usually has scans of everything. and the being who said he was beyond the ultimate nullifier was maelstrom a quasar enemy he says in quasar 24 that the ultimate nullifier would not affect him and i believe in thanos quest thanos tries to blast him with out much effect thus making me believe him. sorry about the living monalith i was confused its maelstrom not the living monalith, and i wasnt talking about galactus in the end saga or whatever your talking about i was talking about him in the abraxas saga its very dumb of marvel to redo the entire MU for the sake of i dont even know why they would do it its just plain dumb galactus is back ok now abraxas is gone ok why remake the multiverse i suppose that its because of the other galacti who died. Even if abraxas killed krona, id like to point out that darkseid said that the IG was useless in his universe and threw it away, or am i wrong?

Mider
i also find it hard to believe that, that weapon could blink ANYTHING even devine level beings out of existence since they should be above even cosmics and thus above beings who's tech is as advanced as those who made the Ultimate nullifier

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
i do hopefully like to believe people online since i would hope there not just making stuff up

Oh believe me, people make stuff up online, don't believe everything you here, do your own personal research always on everything, that's the best way to learn anyway, you get the whole story in-depth

Originally posted by Mider
and im talking about x-men the end not thanos the end thats where pheonix was said to do that,

I'll look into that one myself.

Originally posted by Mider
and the being who said he was beyond the ultimate nullifier was maelstrom a quasar enemy he says in quasar 24 that the ultimate nullifier would not affect him and i believe in thanos quest thanos tries to blast him with out much effect

Can't wait to read that.


Originally posted by Mider
its very dumb of marvel to redo the entire MU for the sake of i dont even know why they would do it its just plain dumb galactus is back ok now abraxas is gone ok why remake the multiverse I suppose that its because of the other galacti who died. Even if abraxas killed krona, id like to point out that darkseid said that the IG was useless in his universe and threw it away, or am i wrong?

Actually the story was a bit more complicated than that, it wasn't JUST for the sole purpose of bringing Galactus back, Abraxas had caused damage great across the Multiverse like killing ALL of Reed Richards other selves in every universe, and really, it was the only way to stop Abraxas himself, this is was the MAIN reason to destroy the Multiverse, then remake the Multiverse to set things right.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
That is,

:Above the Pheonix Force:

TOAA
Thanos with the Heart of the Infinite
Living Tribunal
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet
Anyone with the Ultimate Nullifier(but especially Reed Richards)
Atleza 'the child" (probably)

:Equal to Phoenix Force:

Goblin Force
the Fallen
Unicron the "god" not the machine
Multiversal Abstracts of Eternity - Infinity and perhaps Death

Applaud to you, man. Wow.

You even gave LT who was shown to be kneeling before Phoenix (when Stranger wanted to use the power of PF through Jean and than Eternity showed what would happen). No one can do shit to PF, with exception of TOAA (and that only counts if TOAA is trully Almighty God).

Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet is nothing to PF and would be no threat (actully IG also exist because of PF).
How cany ouf give Ultimate Nullifier beyond PF (Ultimate Nullifier)?
Abtracts you mentioned exist because of PF.

Mr Master, do you know what PF is? Do you know who White Crown of the Phoenix is?

Mider
if Lucifer is second to the presance shouldnt he be megaversal since the PF is megaversal he should since he can make his own multiverse

YourBiggestFan
where's Lucifer's respect thread at? bleh i couldnt find it even with the search option

edit : nm found it!

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mider
if Lucifer is second to the presance shouldnt he be megaversal since the PF is megaversal he should since he can make his own multiverse

Lucifer was never shown to be able to make Multiverse on his own. He needs Michael to do that. Phoenix on the other hand, is a different story.

Mider
well thats what i ment i just didnt say that THAT way

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mider
well thats what i ment i just didnt say that THAT way

I don't know, logical, he should be Megaversal.

Juntai
Originally posted by Xplosive
Lucifer was never shown to be able to make Multiverse on his own. He needs Michael to do that. Phoenix on the other hand, is a different story. In a different sense as well. Pheonix is the spark of Creation, not the creator. Micheal and Lucifer if applied to this equation .. .are the creators of the spark and the will to bring creation into existance. Micheal and Lucifer proceeded everything else. God decided to have a creation, and thus he created Micheal and Lucifer to build it.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Juntai
In a different sense as well. Pheonix is the spark of Creation, not the creator. Micheal and Lucifer if applied to this equation .. .are the creators of the spark and the will to bring creation into existance. Micheal and Lucifer proceeded everything else. God decided to have a creation, and thus he created Micheal and Lucifer to build it.

Phoenix created Multiverse and Abstracts.

Takion
Originally posted by Juntai
In a different sense as well. Pheonix is the spark of Creation, not the creator. Micheal and Lucifer if applied to this equation .. .are the creators of the spark and the will to bring creation into existance. Micheal and Lucifer proceeded everything else. God decided to have a creation, and thus he created Micheal and Lucifer to build it.
And you think Spectre can defeat him.

Big Sexy
Theres a little problem with threads like this. The problem is that Yaweh is by no means an infallible God so how in the world can an arguement be made of his perfection when its not existant.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
Applaud to you, man. Wow.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Xplosive
You even gave LT who was shown to be kneeling before Phoenix (when Stranger wanted to use the power of PF through Jean and than Eternity showed what would happen).

The Living Tribunal is the Ultimate Judge and Executioner of the Marvel Multiverse, no power greater than his except for TOAA.

:note & advice:
Becareful with Phoenix fanboys around here, who throw up a scan or two(which you singularly pointed out)then proceed to misinterpret the scan with extensive explanations with an ends to a personal agenda.

Originally posted by Xplosive
No one can do shit to PF, with exception of TOAA (and that only counts if TOAA is trully Almighty God).

TOAA is "GOD" and does exist, and I have the scans, and I will post them for you if you wish.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet is nothing to PF and would be no threat (actully IG also exist because of PF).

Ok just tell me what it is that Phoenix can do, that the Magus or Thanos or Warlock cannot do with the Gauntlet?

Cause I'll give you a heads up:

FACT!

An INCOMPLETE Infinity Gauntlet Gauntlet can turn the nullification energies back on the person using the Ultimate Nullifier.
-reference- Infinity War
:note:
(The Ultimate Nullifier can Destroy and Remake the ENTIRE Multiverse in the blink of an eye). (just had to point that out)...
-reference- FF Abraxas arc

An INCOMPLETE Infinity Gauntlet can remake a universe, and YES, the Infinity Gauntlet DOES WORK outside the 616 universe contrary to ignorant beliefs.
-reference- Infinity War

Originally posted by Xplosive
How can you give Ultimate Nullifier beyond PF (Ultimate Nullifier)?

The Ultimate Nullifier can Destroy and Remake the ENTIRE Multiverse in the blink of an eye!

What has Phoenix done to trump that?
She's the spark in creation not the CREATOR my friend, while the UN remakes the Multiverse according to the wielder's wishes.

Her biggest feats are repairing the Lattice of the M'kraan Crystal(with the help of some X-Men but who's counting)

And remaking the 616 universe in her hands.

Got anything else do tell.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Abtracts you mentioned exist because of PF.

Uhh the Multiversal Abstracts of Eternity-Infinity and Death do not exist because of Phoenix, perhaps the Universal Concepts, since she can mold the 616 Universe. But she's never created a Multiverse.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Mr Master, do you know what PF is? Do you know who White Crown of the Phoenix is?

I know exactly who the Phoenix Force is, do you?

Phoenix remade the 616 Universe.

now

Wanda collapsed the Multiverse.

The Ultimate Nullifier Destroyed and Remade the Multiverse.

An Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet reverted the Nullification Energies BACK on the wielder of the Ultimate Nullifier.

The Living Tribunal's ruling stopped the gems from being able to be combined as one.

Thanos with THOU absorbed the Living Tribunal.

The Abstract Death could not be absorbed by Thanos.

5 Cosmic Cubes created a Duplicate of the 616 Universe.

Unicron can absorb Universes.

Pre-retcon Beyonder and pre-retcon Molecule Man could both destroy the Multiverse

The Goblin Force is the other opposite of the Phoenix Force as is the Fallen

and Atleza HOLDS in place our Universe in the Cosmic Vortex, this is a place where Universes are being sucked into the Void, it's gravitational pull is incalculable, she does this without any effort, as a matter of fact she doesn't even know she's doing it, thats how much power is emanating from her.

So you see when you look at it from a microscope, it begins to look like more than just the PF who can affect Universes or Multiverses or the ever bravado "ALL that is"

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
Phoenix created Multiverse and Abstracts.

Dude research before you make such claims.

What issue did Phoenix create a Multiverse?

and it's Multiversal Abstracts?

I don't take anyone's word, I like proof behind claims,

you saw my references in my post, giddiup.

Mider
well id like to clear something up for your mr master LT is not the second greatest being in the multiverse, he recently lost to reed richards, before that he was defied by dr strange, he was also scared of by korvac many make the excuse that he dont need to prove his power thats a very lame thing since even the presance in DC steps in when things get that bad, korvac ended up killing an entire universe with the ultimate nullifier and the LT did nothing and said he could do nothing else, you know the LT rules what ever comic he comes out in he is there, also can you tell me exactly where it says the entire multiverse was recreated in the abraxas saga, and are the IG feats your mention current cause the IG's feats have been reconned to my understanding to be only limited to one universe. and it was never proven that LT stoped the gems under his own power adam warlock himself fixed the mind gem so it wouldnt be able to be used to its full potential how did he do this, cause he's a cosmic and is stronger then the gem no, because it was in his possession and it obayed him, LT himself stated when he met warlock he wasnt sure if he could take on the IG.

Xplosive
Look, you don't know shit. PF saved all existence.

It was enough when you gave LT beyond PF. You think I haven't read, only read scans. You don't know shit.

LT was kneeling before Phoenix. Eternity came and said that mustn't happen, it is inevitible when PF will destroy everything and than create everything again (said by Eternity himself).

That pretty much say everything.

And LT is actully pathetic.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
well id like to clear something up for your mr master LT is not the second greatest being in the multiverse, he recently lost to reed richards, before that he was defied by dr strange,

Issues please I'd like to get story myself and see what your talking about.

Originally posted by Mider
he was also scared of by korvac

Show me the exact quote and page where it says Living Tribunal was scared in anyway, please do.


Originally posted by Mider
many make the excuse that he dont need to prove his power thats a very lame thing since even the presance in DC steps in when things get that bad, korvac ended up killing an entire universe with the ultimate nullifier and the LT did nothing and said he could do nothing else, you know the LT rules what ever comic he comes out in he is there,

I'm not gonna get into a "What if" debate since I don't even really consider it valid.
What ifs, --- where Wolverine can KILL Silver Srufer, LOL.

But the FACT is that the Living Tribunal SEALED Korvac off from the rest of reality, and Korvac can't escape.
That tells me Living Tribunal is more powerful than Korvac.

Originally posted by Mider
also can you tell me exactly where it says the entire multiverse was recreated in the abraxas saga,

Won't just tell you, will show you.
FF v3 #49

Reed Richards Uses the Nullifier to Destroy and Remake the Multiverse.
He Destroys the Multiversal Abstracts Eternity and Infinity and Remakes them as he wishes, in the blink of an eye.

Originally posted by Mider
and are the IG feats your mention current cause the IG's feats have been reconned to my understanding to be only limited to one universe.

Very much Canon.

Infinity War series

Originally posted by Mider
and it was never proven that LT stoped the gems under his own power

Not proven?

What more proof you want, Eternity appeared and said the Living Tribunal's Judgement was that Infinity Gems could not be combined again no matter what the crisis.

During the Infinity War(which I recomend you read)the Magus say's "his judgement is keeping the gems from working in unison." on the Tribunal.

Originally posted by Mider
LT himself stated when he met warlock he wasnt sure if he could take on the IG.

Your incorrect about this friend,

Living Tribunal and Adam both NEW that a confrontation would lay waste to that reality.

What are you talking about "he wasnt sure if he could take on the IG,"

where'd you get that from?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Reed Richards Uses the Nullifier to Destroy and Remake the Multiverse.
He Destroys the Multiversal Abstracts Eternity and Infinity and Remakes them as he wishes, in the blink of an eye.

Here Abraxas KILLS Reed's every other self in the Multiverse.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Reed Richards Uses the Nullifier to Destroy and Remake the Multiverse.
He Destroys the Multiversal Abstracts Eternity and Infinity and Remakes them as he wishes, in the blink of an eye.

Here Reed uses the Nullifier to KILL Abraxas, Destroy the Multiverse and to REMAKE the Multiverse back to it's origin before Abraxas made it a madhouse.

Firing the UN.

Mider
i got it from the comic what do you mean where did i get it from, and sealing korvac doesnt mean anything, korvac did a similar thing didnt he? and you really think he was more powerful you think that proves it leaving order and chaos to die, and you should take any and all LT apperances as canon since there is only one LT less you wanna debate that even though thats what marvel claims, and how long has it been since infinity war? even darkseid said the IG didnt work in another universe or whatever universe he was in at the time, LT said in what if korvac made pawns of the avengers or whatever the title was has korvac grown beyond my judgement and blah blah blah, and in last planet standing was where he was taken out by reed richards i dont have a scanner.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Here Reed uses the Nullifier to KILL Abraxas, Destroy the Multiverse and to REMAKE the Multiverse back to it's origin before Abraxas made it a madhouse.

Firing the UN.

UN Destroying the Multiversal Abstract Eternity and Infinity

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
UN Destroying the Multiversal Abstract Eternity and Infinity

UN Remade the Multiverse.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Living Tribunal and Adam both NEW that a confrontation would lay waste to that reality.

What are you talking about "he wasnt sure if he could take on the IG,"

where'd you get that from?

Living Tribunal was never UNSURE of his outcome with Adam.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Living Tribunal was never UNSURE of his outcome with Adam.

And his answer to that.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
And his answer to that.

continues..

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
continues..

conclusion.

Mider
i dont see no show of power from LT taking the gems mr master he told adam that it would destroy the universe if they fought thats it, then adam didnt want that so he gave the gems up, no where did i see that he said IM NOT GIVING THEM UP and LT saying OH YEAH SMACK and then taking them, maybe your perspective is diffrent.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
i got it from the comic what do you mean where did i get it from,

We must be reading different versions of the same comic book.

I just posted the scans where Living Tribunal and Adam both knew the outcome of the fight before it even started, and Living Tribunal Judged against Adam even while Adam had the FULL power of the Gauntlet.

Originally posted by Mider
and sealing korvac doesnt mean anything, korvac did a similar thing didnt he? and you really think he was more powerful you think that proves it leaving order and chaos to die, and you should take any and all LT apperances as canon since there is only one LT less you wanna debate that even though thats what marvel claims,

What if's are rediculous, and Korvac was amped up in that series too, and Korvac RAN away from the Ultimate nullifier prior to this, but afterwards he has a weapon that can remake the Multiverse, and even with all that, the Living Tribunal sealed off that reality to the point that when Korvac fired the UN, it only Destroyed himself and that insane reality.

Bottom Line.

The Living Tribunal off the universe. Korvac can't leave it, why didn't he break through if he was more powerful than LT?
Korvac destroyed that universe, along with himself, by using the Ultimate Nullifier. Yet the weapon can remake the Multiverse. Living Tribunal wwas the cause of this.

Originally posted by Mider
and how long has it been since infinity war? even darkseid said the IG didnt work in another universe or whatever universe he was in at the time,

Cossovers, hate em, you shouldn't take them to serious.

But the fact is the IG, INCOMPLETE I might add, has been used outside the 616 reality. REMADE a Universe from outside the 616 Reality.

Darkseid said this, well I never claimed the IG was beyond the Multiverse.

Originally posted by Mider
LT said in what if korvac made pawns of the avengers or whatever the title was has korvac grown beyond my judgement and blah blah blah,

Again with the What ifs, where Wolverine can kill the Silver Surfer
Puck has defeated Hercules, What if's are a joke. If that your key arguement I can't keep up.

Originally posted by Mider
and in last planet standing was where he was taken out by reed richards i dont have a scanner.

How?

Mider
mr masters you know the LT's rules if he appears in any comic its not alternate verion of him its him, and korvac focused on eternity not the multiverse when he was gonna destroy the universe, and so what if he was amped up, he was more powerful then eternity he could have defeated the LT i believe he didnt even want to, and they both knew the outcome of the fight doesnt that sounds to me like adam was saying well we both knew id give these up.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
i dont see no show of power from LT taking the gems mr master he told adam that it would destroy the universe if they fought thats it, then adam didnt want that so he gave the gems up, no where did i see that he said IM NOT GIVING THEM UP and LT saying OH YEAH SMACK and then taking them, maybe your perspective is diffrent.

What it REALLY doesn't SHOW is what you claimed Living Tribunal said,

"LT himself stated when he met warlock he wasnt sure if he could take on the IG."

Please show me where it say's that.

I never said what you just rambled about,

"no where did i see that he said IM NOT GIVING THEM UP and LT saying OH YEAH SMACK and then taking them"

The hell are you talking about?

You said,
"LT himself stated when he met warlock he wasnt sure if he could take on the IG."

I proved that's not true.

Living Tribunal Judge against Adam and Adam submitted to the Judgement.

Like they BOTH ALWAYS knew he would.

Their confrontation would have "lay waste to this reality", now Living Tribunal Judged the IG never to be assembled again, and as I already proved his Judgement stood.

So if he can control them from being united, he has power over them, but it would'of taken him destroying that Universe to prove that to Warlock.

Mider
you didnt prove anything mr masters you proved that the LT didnt want a fight cause it would destroy the universe, and adam gave up the gems he never did anything to adam to forciably take them, submitting isnt the same thing as being forced one submits to his boss at work that dont mean you cant go up and smack him, you say this and that about LT when has he ever shown a good feat, you havent proven anything and i saw the scans where he said that he didnt know if he could defeat the IG GS has them i believe

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
Look, you don't know shit. PF saved all existence.

What I don't know is where and when did Phoenix CREATE a Multiverse?

Still haven't answered that one buddy, what? waiting for gs?, he's gonna tell you that fantasy doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Xplosive
It was enough when you gave LT beyond PF. You think I haven't read, only read scans. You don't know shit.

Still put him above her,

And I still don't know where and when did Phoenix CREATE a Multiverse?

Originally posted by Xplosive
LT was kneeling before Phoenix. Eternity came and said that mustn't happen, it is inevitible when PF will destroy everything and than create everything again (said by Eternity himself).
That pretty much say everything.


But it's not saying WHERE and WHEN Phoenix CREATED a Multiverse?

The Ultimate Nullifier can DESTROY and REMAKE the Multiverse, I posted the scan already.

an Incomplete Infinity Gauntlet can reverse the Nullification Energies back on it's wielder,

Living Tribunal judged the Infnity Gauntlet never to be assemgle again,
Magus ""his judgement is keeping the gems from working in unison." on Tribunal.

So Tribunal has power over the IG, which is more powerful than the UN, which can Destroy and Remake the Multiverse.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
you didnt prove anything mr masters you proved that the LT didnt want a fight cause it would destroy the universe, and adam gave up the gems he never did anything to adam to forciably take them, submitting isnt the same thing as being forced one submits to his boss at work that dont mean you cant go up and smack him, you say this and that about LT when has he ever shown a good feat, you havent proven anything and i saw the scans where he said that he didnt know if he could defeat the IG GS has them i believe

Your funny wish that analogy,

I never said he took them forcibly or not,

My arguement was that he DID KNOW how he would do against the Gauntlet.

Here Adam let's him know how powrful he is, and still Tribunal Judges against him, this must mean He knows He can defeat Adam but yes, it would take Destroying that Universe.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Your funny wish that analogy,

I never said he took them forcibly or not,

My arguement was that he DID KNOW how he would do against the Gauntlet.

Here Adam let's him know how powrful he is, and still Tribunal Judges against him, this must mean He knows He can defeat Adam but yes, it would take Destroying that Universe.

How does the Tribunal respond to that.

Mider
your just putting words where they dont belong, adam might have just been pointing to the fact that he knew he'd give them up or that the universe would be destroyed in the fight for the sake of the universe not in fear of the LT

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
your just putting words where they dont belong, adam might have just been pointing to the fact that he knew he'd give them up or that the universe would be destroyed in the fight for the sake of the universe not in fear of the LT

That's something you can't prove.

Your interpretation is willfully ignoring on panel art, and character statements.

Warlock warns Tribunal about how powerful he is and Tribunal still JUDGES againt him.

Tribunal Judges against the Gauntlet being able to work together and so his Judment stood.

How much clearer do you want it to be, or do you have something personal against the LT?

Tassadar
1) Charon and Lawbringers from Negation (Crossgen Comics)- Can he singlehandedly defeat the entire Negation Empire?
Yes



2) Thanos with Classic IG plus Marvel cosmics- Lucifer enters Marvel Universe 616 where Thanos is God of that Reality. Can Lucifer defeat Thanos who will be allied with Galactus, Chaos and Order, Mistress Death, The Stranger, Love and Hate, and all the Celestials combined?
Yes

3) Abraxis with Ultamate Nullifiers Let's say Abraxis at full power with copies of Ultamate Nullifiers at his disposal. Can he delete Lucifer in battle, or will Lucifer come out on top?
Question is, will Ultimate Nullifier work on him?

4) The Disciple, Zera, Mammon, the Forgotten Ones, Abdiel, and the Man of Miracles- Can Lucifer defeat these entities from Spawn combined?
Yes

5) Kali and Urizen - at thier full power, both are above Death. Urizen devours spiritual energy, all kinds of spiritual energy, he has the ability to kill the imagination. Kali is the Goddess of Death and Destruction, the cycle of life and death, no God or Demon has ever beaten her yet. Will Lucifer be the first?
Perhaps

6) Bloodlusted Spectre Spectre is fkn furious and has a bone to pick with Lucifer. Is there any way Lucifer can neutralize Spectre, and if so, how?
More than likely hes above normal DC God

7) Combined Forces of Heaven, Hell,and Greeworld- If Lucifer defeats round 4, let's say thier resurrected.....excluding God, Satan, and Urizen.......can Lucifer defeat the combined might of both Heaven and Hell together? This would include Spawn (any age), Angela, all redeemers, all the forgotten ones, Abdiel, The Disciple, Zera, Malebolgia, Mammon etc. Anyone who has ever been a part of any of these three realms !
Helluva fight, cant say accurately

8) Bloodlusted Micheal Can Lucifer outsmart, defeat, destroy, or surpass his brother in any way?
Didnt Lucifer already beat Mike?


9) White Pheonix of the Crown - Can he destroy or subdue her?
Is she really above some of the stuff already said?


10) Goddess Dawn with Sword She used this to cut off Ahura Mazda (God's) hand off. With this sword, is Dawn even capable of ending Lucifer, or would her attack be futile?
Lucifer 9/10


11)Darkseid with ALE, Parallex, Molecule Man, and Mr. Myx Can Lucifer outsmart and defeat these reality controllers?
Yes


12) Saint of Killers Is Lucifer subject to this guy's attacks?
This has been decided in another thread, Lucifer is above death, and SoK is death in Preacher-verse


13) The Great Evil Beast- Could Lucifer trick the GEB into defeating itself?
Hes Lucifer, no ones better at tricking people

14) Classic Beyonder- Could Lucifer defeat him in ANY way shape or form?
Infinite power (Beyonder) versus near infinite power, Lucifer loses

Lord Urizen
Mr. Master you are an EXCELLENT DEBATOR thumb up

I am now convinced that Lucifer may well have very much trouble defeating Thanos with IG

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's something you can't prove.

Your interpretation is willfully ignoring on panel art, and character statements.

Warlock warns Tribunal about how powerful he is and Tribunal still JUDGES againt him.

Tribunal Judges against the Gauntlet being able to work together and so his Judment stood.

How much clearer do you want it to be, or do you have something personal against the LT?

Mr. Master, Mider HATES the Living Tribunal, we all know this, i even made a thread called "Mider vs The Living Tribunal" laughing

Convincing Mider that the LT is a valid character is a waste of time.

bigbran
5) Kali and Urizen - at thier full power, both are above Death. Urizen devours spiritual energy, all kinds of spiritual energy, he has the ability to kill the imagination. Kali is the Goddess of Death and Destruction, the cycle of life and death, no God or Demon has ever beaten her yet. Will Lucifer be the first?
Perhaps
7) Combined Forces of Heaven, Hell,and Greeworld- If Lucifer defeats round 4, let's say thier resurrected.....excluding God, Satan, and Urizen.......can Lucifer defeat the combined might of both Heaven and Hell together? This would include Spawn (any age), Angela, all redeemers, all the forgotten ones, Abdiel, The Disciple, Zera, Malebolgia, Mammon etc. Anyone who has ever been a part of any of these three realms !
Helluva fight, cant say accurately

so what your saying is that, he can defeat urizen and kali, but he cant defeat the people who a depowered urizen was kicking the shit outa.
this is full power urizen, he could do it alone, but with kali, its overkill.

bigbran
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Mr. Master you are an EXCELLENT DEBATOR thumb up

I am now convinced that Lucifer may well have very much trouble defeating Thanos with IG
he has me convinced too.

bigbran
i dont want to start anything, but, i thought when you fired the un, it destroyed the weilder, how can reed fire it w/o getting killed?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Tassadar
1) Charon and Lawbringers from Negation (Crossgen Comics)- Can he singlehandedly defeat the entire Negation Empire?
Yes


I agree. Negation is one universe, and Charon does not have absolute cosmic power, only absolute dictatorship and high cosmic power (comparable to Galactus, or maybe higher) but not on Lucifer's league.



Originally posted by Tassadar
2) Thanos with Classic IG plus Marvel cosmics- Lucifer enters Marvel Universe 616 where Thanos is God of that Reality. Can Lucifer defeat Thanos who will be allied with Galactus, Chaos and Order, Mistress Death, The Stranger, Love and Hate, and all the Celestials combined?
Yes



Thanks to Mr. Master's debate, i doubt this now. Thanos with IG may prove to be a wicked challenge for Lucifer.





Originally posted by Tassadar
3) Abraxis with Ultamate Nullifiers Let's say Abraxis at full power with copies of Ultamate Nullifiers at his disposal. Can he delete Lucifer in battle, or will Lucifer come out on top?
Question is, will Ultimate Nullifier work on him?



Why wouldn't it? The Ultamate Nullifier destroyed the entire multiverse. It could well as much destroy Abraxis. I know Lucifer is beyong death, but is he also beyong being deleted? There is a major difference between being killed and being completely erased.



Originally posted by Tassadar
4) The Disciple, Zera, Mammon, the Forgotten Ones, Abdiel, and the Man of Miracles- Can Lucifer defeat these entities from Spawn combined?
Yes


How so? Disciple and Zera ALONE may be too much for Lucifer, Man of Miracles by himself may be too much...do you know enough about them? And then Abdiel who has the sword that can slay immortals, Mammon with his near omnipotence, and then the Forgotten Ones who are like a hundred Mammons?

Dude, explain yourself....I am not totally convinced that Lucifer can beat them together. wink




Originally posted by Tassadar
5) Kali and Urizen - at thier full power, both are above Death. Urizen devours spiritual energy, all kinds of spiritual energy, he has the ability to kill the imagination. Kali is the Goddess of Death and Destruction, the cycle of life and death, no God or Demon has ever beaten her yet. Will Lucifer be the first?
Perhaps


I doubt it. He'd have to do a hell of a lotta crap to defeat Kali, who has never been defeated before. Not to mention Urizen cannot be destroyed...period, even Cogliostro clarified this, not to meniton that Urizen at full power may well be on par with Image's God (for reasons I will explain nowsmile



Zera, the most dangerous weapon Heaven has, had to be locked away by God himself. WHY? Not because she disobeyed God, she was ultamately loyal to him. God himself imprisoned her, BECAUSE she is wayyy to powerful, dangerous, and insane to let loose.

When Urizen roamed free long ago, Heaven and Hell had to join forces to weaken him and lock him away. If God would stow away Zera, even though she's loya, then why would he not simply lock away Urizen who is immoral, indestructable, feared by both Heaven and Hell, who was able to destroy the entire universe?

Most likely cuz God himself was unable to lock Urizen away on his own. wink

How the hell would Lucifer accompish a thing, that God and the Devils in Image required an alliance for ?????




Originally posted by Tassadar
6) Bloodlusted Spectre Spectre is fkn furious and has a bone to pick with Lucifer. Is there any way Lucifer can neutralize Spectre, and if so, how?
More than likely hes above normal DC God


You mean Presence? Who is DC God? Is Vertigo's Yahweh higher than the Presence?



Originally posted by Tassadar
7) Combined Forces of Heaven, Hell,and Greeworld- If Lucifer defeats round 4, let's say thier resurrected.....excluding God, Satan, and Urizen.......can Lucifer defeat the combined might of both Heaven and Hell together? This would include Spawn (any age), Angela, all redeemers, all the forgotten ones, Abdiel, The Disciple, Zera, Malebolgia, Mammon etc. Anyone who has ever been a part of any of these three realms !
Helluva fight, cant say accurately



Me either !



Originally posted by Tassadar
8) Bloodlusted Micheal Can Lucifer outsmart, defeat, destroy, or surpass his brother in any way?
Didnt Lucifer already beat Mike?


If you are talking about when he killed him and caused that explosion, that doesn't entirely count, Micheal came back to life renewed.

How has Lucifer defeated Micheal ?



Originally posted by Tassadar
9) White Pheonix of the Crown - Can he destroy or subdue her?
Is she really above some of the stuff already said?


Yeah, it may well be impossible.




Originally posted by Tassadar
10) Goddess Dawn with Sword She used this to cut off Ahura Mazda (God's) hand off. With this sword, is Dawn even capable of ending Lucifer, or would her attack be futile?
Lucifer 9/10


Maybe



Originally posted by Tassadar
11)Darkseid with ALE, Parallex, Molecule Man, and Mr. Myx Can Lucifer outsmart and defeat these reality controllers?
Yes



Okay, how and why?



Originally posted by Tassadar
12) Saint of Killers Is Lucifer subject to this guy's attacks?
This has been decided in another thread, Lucifer is above death, and SoK is death in Preacher-verse



Doesn't determine anything. Eternity is above Death in Marvel, and he can die just as much. Saint of Killers was able to kill God in his reality and take his thrown. I'm uncertain here.



Originally posted by Tassadar
13) The Great Evil Beast- Could Lucifer trick the GEB into defeating itself?
Hes Lucifer, no ones better at tricking people




GEB is not a person......how would Lucifer trick it?





Originally posted by Tassadar
14) Classic Beyonder- Could Lucifer defeat him in ANY way shape or form?
Infinite power (Beyonder) versus near infinite power, Lucifer loses




I agree. wink

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by bigbran
5) Kali and Urizen - at thier full power, both are above Death. Urizen devours spiritual energy, all kinds of spiritual energy, he has the ability to kill the imagination. Kali is the Goddess of Death and Destruction, the cycle of life and death, no God or Demon has ever beaten her yet. Will Lucifer be the first?
Perhaps
7) Combined Forces of Heaven, Hell,and Greeworld- If Lucifer defeats round 4, let's say thier resurrected.....excluding God, Satan, and Urizen.......can Lucifer defeat the combined might of both Heaven and Hell together? This would include Spawn (any age), Angela, all redeemers, all the forgotten ones, Abdiel, The Disciple, Zera, Malebolgia, Mammon etc. Anyone who has ever been a part of any of these three realms !
Helluva fight, cant say accurately

so what your saying is that, he can defeat urizen and kali, but he cant defeat the people who a depowered urizen was kicking the shit outa.
this is full power urizen, he could do it alone, but with kali, its overkill.



Yes ! thumb up

Mr Master
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Mr. Master, Mider HATES the Living Tribunal, we all know this, i even made a thread called "Mider vs The Living Tribunal" laughing

Convincing Mider that the LT is a valid character is a waste of time.

It makes sense now.

thanxs

bigbran
he hates lt and thanos.

Mider
he's the one making things up, saying how the LT did this and that when he didnt do a darn thing, adam gave him the gems so they wouldnt fight thus ruin the universe, he has no proof at all that LT would have won a confrentation he has the showings from dr strange, last planet standing and even korvac against him all he can give me is i dont take it seriously he knows the LT's rules he knows that he is only one being no alternates like galactus and thus when he shows up somewhere in the multiverse its him and only him, then he says that LT bowing down to pheonix is nothing, i guess he was just looking at her shoes

bigbran
show me scans of him bowing.

Mider
i dont own a scanner ask galactic storm

Juntai
He could clear a good chunk of the list even WITHOUT his powers.
Anyone who's read the title should know this.

Xplosive
Originally posted by Mr Master
But it's not saying WHERE and WHEN Phoenix CREATED a Multiverse?


Aha, so Eternity saying that PF will destroy everything and than will replace this Multiverse, recreate it, aha, so that doesn't mean creating Multiverse.
To end all and begin all, that doesn' t mean anything.

Mr Master
Originally posted by bigbran
i dont want to start anything, but, i thought when you fired the un, it destroyed the weilder, how can reed fire it w/o getting killed?

I guess this is the best way to describe this.

bigbran
o i c

Mr Master
Originally posted by Xplosive
Aha, so Eternity saying that PF will destroy everything and than will replace this Multiverse, recreate it, aha, so that doesn't mean creating Multiverse.
To end all and begin all, that doesn' t mean anything.


WHERE and WHEN did she CREATE a Multiverse?

You say someone said this and someone said that, but WHERE and WHEN?

But more importantly, you said she DID create a Multiverse,

so WHEN and WHERE did this occur.

I posted WHERE and WHEN the Ultimate Nullifier destroyed and Remade the Multiverse,

even threw in the SCANS.

All you giving me is your word, and from experience that doesn't count much around here.

Everyone knows Phoenix sparks and ends a creation and destructive process that's self determined on a pre-meditated path. She DOESN'T actually mold the Multiverse like she did with the 616 Universe, that's where your confused I think.

"To end all and begin all, that doesn' t mean anything"

That phrased is used even when considering just a Universe my friend, if you deal with high powered cosmics you should know.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
he's the one making things up, saying how the LT did this and that when he didnt do a darn thing

Woh there young buck, don't begin to lie when your backed up against a wall.

Don't accuse me of MAKING ANYTHING UP!

In FACT you got balls accusing me of making something up, when it was YOU who MADE THIS UP,

"LT himself stated when he met warlock he wasnt sure if he could take on the IG."

Those are your words, those are your lies.

I PROVED through my ON PANEL PROOF/SCANS, that was NEVER said by the Living Tribunal.

Mider
i didnt sir. your missing alot of scans from that comic thanks who said you where making things up? i guess you accuse yourself now, i dont need to lie dude i dont have to prove myself to anyone on here, i know what he said to adam warlock how odd that your missing a few scans from there encounter huh?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
he has no proof at all that LT would have won a confrentation

Yet the Scan I posted clearly shows Living Tribunal acknowledging he KNOWS how powerful the Gauntlet is and yet RULES against Adam.

But you want PROOF fine, I only debate with PROOF anyway.

Here Adam tries to USE the Gauntlet, YES, the SAME Gautlet that YOUR saying LT couldn't handle.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Yet the Scan I posted clearly shows Living Tribunal acknowledging he KNOWS how powerful the Gauntlet is and yet RULES against Adam.

But you want PROOF fine, I only debate with PROOF anyway.

Here Adam tries to USE the Gauntlet, YES, the SAME Gautlet that YOUR saying LT couldn't handle.

Opps can't use it can't even get it to function, WHY?

bigbran
what the hell were they going to fight?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Opps can't use it can't even get it to function, WHY?

Now let's make sure this isn't a fluke,

Uhh yes even Galactus acknowledges this.

Living Tribunal made the Gauntlet ineffective.

bigbran
why didnt they give thanos the gauntlet.
oh i know y

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Now let's make sure this isn't a fluke,

Uhh yes even Galactus acknowledges this.

Living Tribunal made the Gauntlet ineffective.

This is interesting,

Living Tribunal here says that it has been ruled ONLY Eternity can CHOOSE to have them work as one,

BUT ONLY the Living Tribunal can make them work.

Observe, ALWAYS with PROOF.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
This is interesting,

Living Tribunal here says that it has been ruled ONLY Eternity can CHOOSE to have them work as one,

BUT ONLY the Living Tribunal can make them work.

Observe, ALWAYS with PROOF.

And here is Eternity doing just that, Excepting the Unison of the Gauntlet.

But the Gauntlet is STILL ineffective until the Tribunal ALLOWS it,

Observe.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
And here is Eternity doing just that, Excepting the Unison of the Gauntlet.

But the Gauntlet is STILL ineffective until the Tribunal ALLOWS it,

Observe.

AND now since Eternity Agreed,

it's the Living Tribunal that powers the Gauntlet back up.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
AND now since Eternity Agreed,

it's the Living Tribunal that powers the Gauntlet back up.

Th result.

Mider
well i guess i owe you an apology mr masters, i hope that galactic storm didnt get my private message.

bigbran
wow mider... admiting.... he...was...wrong.
not arguing wth this w/o proof, and being very sure.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
well i guess i owe you an apology mr masters, i hope that galactic storm didnt get my private message.

It's ok,

that's probably the guy who has you confused, I've noticed he's confused many here.

If you want I can send you the issue thorugh AIM,

I have almost 40 gigabytes of comics. And my primary read is the issues that deal with hierarchy of Marvel and some DC.

bigbran
how does that work?

Mr Master
Originally posted by bigbran
how does that work?

What?

Mider
did you scann them from your own collection?

bigbran
Originally posted by Mr Master
It's ok,

that's probably the guy who has you confused, I've noticed he's confused many here.

If you want I can send you the issue thorugh AIM,

I have almost 40 gigabytes of comics. And my primary read is the issues that deal with hierarchy of Marvel and some DC.
40 gig, that a lot of porn, cant imagine all the comics!!!!

bigbran
Originally posted by Mr Master
What? sending the comics.

Mider
porn bigbran? dont be sick

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
did you scann them from your own collection?

I have the originals and the scans,

I'm a cosmic freak, I admit it. Not comic but Cosmic.

bigbran
Originally posted by Mider
porn bigbran? dont be sick im saying that, he must have about 40-50 comics and more.

Mr Master
Originally posted by bigbran
40 gig, that a lot of porn, cant imagine all the comics!!!!

LOL!

Your right though, even for video that's alot.

I keep most of them in a seperate external hard drive.

It adds up pretty easily though you'd be surprise

eg. I have about 3-1/2 gigs of just HULK, so go figure.

It's mostly the complete collections that come in such huge amounts,

like my complete Siver Surfer collection, your talking almost 4 gigs right there.

bigbran
so how many comics are we looking at?

Mr Master
Originally posted by bigbran
sending the comics.

AOL Instant Messenger on a PC

or IChat on a Mac

you can transfer files with anyone, no matter how large they are.

Mr Master
Originally posted by bigbran
so how many comics are we looking at?

I never counted then all

but I have just over 6 gigs of FF, I counted those more or less,

almost 800 right there.

remember each comic has betweeen 24 to 40 sometimes over 50 pages,

so you can see how they can accumulate.

bigbran
so over 2000 comics.

Mr Master
Originally posted by bigbran
so over 2000 comics.

More like 15,000 or more

I nearly have 800 Fantastic Fours alone.

bigbran
holy

Big Sexy
Originally posted by Mr Master
More like 15,000 or more

I nearly have 800 Fantastic Fours alone. Mr Master I have a question. I have read your posts and you really know your stuff. Anyway your points on LT binding the Gauntlet, does that really show he is above the IG. I know that that gems are powerful separately but they pale in comparison to the Gauntlet as a semi whole. Lets say that when LT binded the gauntlet he did the gems separately. He could just be above the Power Gem and by binding that one he limits the powers of the rest since the power gem increases the potency of the other gems. With that he could easily bind the rest because they have lost their anchor, but this is only a theory.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Mider
well i guess i owe you an apology mr masters, i hope that galactic storm didnt get my private message.


Mider, you can't always take Galactic Storm's word. He is always bias and always for the Pheonix Force' dominance, he has no regard for Infinity Gaunlet or even HOTU.....anything other than Pheonix he automatically goes against.

He's never pulled up a scan in argument with me, and he uses a lot of his time simply moderating other people's debates, without debating himself.

Proof (whether it be scans, or specific references) speak louder than mere words....please understand this.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Juntai
He could clear a good chunk of the list even WITHOUT his powers.
Anyone who's read the title should know this.

Why don't you give us specific scenarios, feats that can compare and apply to his ability to take out a chunk of the list here?

And please...no biblical or religious input roll eyes (sarcastic)

I demand comic book facts on my thread (unless the comic book itself refers to specific biblical or religious quotes that can apply)

Mr Master
Originally posted by Big Sexy
Mr Master I have a question. I have read your posts and you really know your stuff. Anyway your points on LT binding the Gauntlet, does that really show he is above the IG. I know that that gems are powerful separately but they pale in comparison to the Gauntlet as a semi whole. Lets say that when LT binded the gauntlet he did the gems separately. He could just be above the Power Gem and by binding that one he limits the powers of the rest since the power gem increases the potency of the other gems. With that he could easily bind the rest because they have lost their anchor, but this is only a theory.

Interesting theory,

but it was the Reality Gem that was missing from the Gauntlet, Thanos had made a fake copy, Magus thought he had a complete Gauntlet all along.

Still even INCOMPLETE, but yes with the Power Gem included, Magus was able to turn the Nullification Energies back on Quasar who tried to use the UN on him, he did this with a thought.

As far as Living Tribunal is concerned, LT not only ALLOWED the Gauntlet to work with Eternity's approval, but he actually powered up the Gauntlet with a phrase,

"SO BE IT"

Here is magus resisting the Ultimate Nullifier and turnig it's power against the wielder.

Don't forget this is an INCOMPLETE Infnity Gauntlet.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting theory,

but it was the Reality Gem that was missing from the Gauntlet, Thanos had made a fake copy, Magus thought he had a complete Gauntlet all along.

Still even INCOMPLETE, but yes with the Power Gem included, Magus was able to turn the Nullification Energies back on Quasar who tried to use the UN on him, he did this with a thought.

As far as Living Tribunal is concerned, LT not only ALLOWED the Gauntlet to work with Eternity's approval, but he actually powered up the Gauntlet with a phrase,

"SO BE IT"

Here is magus resisting the Ultimate Nullifier and turnig it's power against the wielder.

Don't forget this is an INCOMPLETE Infnity Gauntlet.

Amazing!

"with but a thought, I turn the universes's most powerful weapon upon it's bearer"

Mider
Originally posted by bigbran
wow mider... admiting.... he...was...wrong.



you should try it its good for the soul

Mider
i hope galactic storm comes he should defend himself

Mider
anyway you just said that magus with the IG could negate the ultimate nullifier didnt you mr masters why couldnt lucifer do the same? he's half the spark of creation like PF is in the MU, he can make his own universe and rewrite reality and make up such concepts as time and space and servived the demigoric blast i dont think that the IG would do anything to him and since you say the IG can negate the ultimate nullifier lucifer would do the same its been stated has it not that he could come back even after being annihilation just from sheer will, i dont think galactic storm is that much of a fanboy why would he be, he brings proof when he comes online doesnt he? he did bring us proof the PF held the universe in its hand. When people talk about darkseid today they say he's a jobber and then others look at his old feats and say he's super powerful, but even then people still say he's not that powerful anymore well i then state that LT is not as powerful as he once was, and thus is below the PF and is very weak since losing to reed richards why do i say this RECENT FEATS he's a jobber.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
anyway you just said that magus with the IG could negate the ultimate nullifier didnt you mr masters why couldnt lucifer do the same? he's half the spark of creation like PF is in the MU, he can make his own universe and rewrite reality and make up such concepts as time and space and servived the demigoric blast i dont think that the IG would do anything to him and since you say the IG can negate the ultimate nullifier lucifer would do the same its been stated has it not that he could come back even after being annihilation just from sheer will, i dont think galactic storm is that much of a fanboy why would he be, he brings proof when he comes online doesnt he? he did bring us proof the PF held the universe in its hand. When people talk about darkseid today they say he's a jobber and then others look at his old feats and say he's super powerful, but even then people still say he's not that powerful anymore well i then state that LT is not as powerful as he once was, and thus is below the PF and is very weak since losing to reed richards why do i say this RECENT FEATS he's a jobber.

Interesting,

good observation,

but the Infinity Gauntlet can control those concepts on a greater than universal scale, Magus used the Gauntlet to turn back the Ultimate nullifier energies back on it's wielder, and it was an INCOMPLETE Gauntlet let me point out, it was missing the Reality Gem.

And the energies that the Gauntlet resisted from the Ultimate Nullifier would have destroyed the Multiverse and remade it aswell.

Question is, can Lucifer withstand a Multiverse destroying blast?

And yet the Ultimate Nullifier is nothing to the Infinity Gauntlet.

Thanos took out the nearly the entire hierarchy with the IG.

And Phoenix did mold the 616 universe in her hands, but so can many others.

One more point on the Living Tribunal.

He can turn beings into Universes, how you like them apples, I have the scans if you wish.

And as far as that person you mentioned is concerned, when you make claims that are proven wrong and you still argue even with the evidence in your face, that's a fanboy.

Mider
he did in the lucifer comics supposidly when he killed his brother micheal he is the vessel of the energy that made the multiverse, lucifer shapes that energy, he stood at ground zero of that and was not even harmed, weather that was multiversal or universal is to be speculated, i dont believe the IG is multiversal though its been negated even for a second by dr strange, and has been even userped by adam strange, lucifer can just rewrite the universe saying both the ultimat nullifier and the IG are candy Warlock did what he did i think cause he would step out of the loop of chaos and order or something like that well all i can say is that lucifer could step out of reality he did when making his own creation.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Mider
he did in the lucifer comics supposidly when he killed his brother micheal he is the vessel of the energy that made the multiverse, lucifer shapes that energy, he stood at ground zero of that and was not even harmed, weather that was multiversal or universal is to be speculated, i dont believe the IG is multiversal though its been negated even for a second by dr strange, and has been even userped by adam strange, lucifer can just rewrite the universe saying both the ultimat nullifier and the IG are candy Warlock did what he did i think cause he would step out of the loop of chaos and order or something like that well all i can say is that lucifer could step out of reality he did when making his own creation.

If Lucifer can take a blast from Michael and come out unfazed, Lucifer is one tuff cookie.

Yet I understandd it niether Michael nor Lucifer can create a Multiverse on their own, Lucifer made a Universe.

But if Michael is the one with the power that Lucifer uses to shape, then by definition in terms of raw power, Michael should be more powerful than his brother.

I don't really understand what your saying about the Gauntlet not being Multiversal, Magus warped 616 universe from outside 616 universe, this autoatically makes it Multiversal, now whether it's influence or range of control can transcend the ENTIRE Multiverse, I don't know, but what I do know is that it overpowered a weapon that can definitely destroy & remake the Multiverse to whatever one wishes. As you now know.

So if you put one and one together, you see what you get.

And I don't think Lucifer can say to the Gauntlet and UN be candy, and that will happen, the objects themselves not only hold power they are power.

What did strange do and in what title and issue?
And Warlock usurped the Gauntlet? Elaborate.

Big Sexy
Originally posted by Mider
he did in the lucifer comics supposidly when he killed his brother micheal he is the vessel of the energy that made the multiverse, lucifer shapes that energy, he stood at ground zero of that and was not even harmed, weather that was multiversal or universal is to be speculated, i dont believe the IG is multiversal though its been negated even for a second by dr strange, and has been even userped by adam strange, lucifer can just rewrite the universe saying both the ultimat nullifier and the IG are candy Warlock did what he did i think cause he would step out of the loop of chaos and order or something like that well all i can say is that lucifer could step out of reality he did when making his own creation. Lucifer has always been an iffy comic for me. Dont get me wrong, I enjoy the books on there fictional takes but many times people add their own little changes to things. In Lucifer, it states he created a universe yet everyone states its a multiverse when it clearly says a universe.

Mider
then how did they make all creation?

Mider
i submit that perhaps lucifer started out with one creation only to test out how it is to be its god, he didnt make a multiverse because that would mean he'd be testing many universes, why do i say this because he and his brother made the multiverse already once, and thus they do indeed have the power to make half a multiverse each thats why i state this.

Lord Urizen
Mider,

Not to mention that in Silver Surfer issues to took place during the IG saga, there were completely different events going on. For example, NECRONOS that world did not exist in the original Infinity Gaunlet Saga, yet in Silver Surfer issues that's what Thanos created.

Is that not an alternate reality?


And if so, if this WAS an alternate reality, then that means that classic IG is multiversal in power.

Mider
i dont understand what you mean what did he create?

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