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i think it would have been better if luke was the only child instead of there being twins. because then it would mean more pressure with luke, that he is the ONLY HOPE ya knoe?

....also that could also mean luke and leia could ve have fallen in love instead of han and leia

and it would be kinda the same story happening in the prequels
anakin and padme and obi wan a friend
luke and leia and han solo a friend

doesnt it make sense?

Yeah, I always wished that Luke would have been the only Skywalker child. It almost seemed that it wasn't too bad if he failed cause Leia was there just in case. To me Luke was the only hope. And while on the subject, I have always been upset that the authors of the EU never made Leia a Jedi. She is a Skywalker and should be a Jedi.

this has nothing to do with Ep.II

She is learning to be a Jedi in the Thraw trilogy though. But Borgie is right.

I thought it wasn't GL's best move to resolve the trilogy. I mean, the entire saga was about Luke's father. And there pops up another family member. I accepte it but it wasn't very elegant.

I HATED Leia being Luke's sister. Luke should have been the ONLY possible hope, of defeating Vader & the Emporer and saving the galaxy. I don't like my heroes sharing the spotlight with anybody. Vader and Luke being father and son was a totally one on one thing. Evil vs. Good. I thought throwing Leia in there really skewered that one.

GL was just patching up the holes in his story. Maybe OB1 turns out to be Anakin's cousin.

Now its starting to sound like spaceballs.

Darth's thoughts on the whole thing weren't really clear, were they? He spends all that time probing her in ANH and doesn't notice. Good job they didn't do a DNA profile on her...

Yeah, that scene frustrates the heck out of me. Vader couldn't sense that was his daughter ? George has yet to fill the hole on that one.

Well, maybe he just noticed she was strong in the Force, but thought nothing of it and never said anything. Plus, Luke had a little bit of training, a very little bit, the first time Vader "felt" him, that could have had something to do with it.

Yes, I can dig that. Perhaps the Force doesn't manifest itself until the user starts using it. But then, didn't novels and TPM say that both Luke and Anakin used it without realising that it was the Force?

Anakin implies he does by saying that he is the only human that can pod race. I don't know about Luke though...

The assumption is that Luke's early piloting skills came from the Force.

However, huis early meeting with Leia aside, which is odd but not downright ridiculous, the sensing thing is ok. Vader only senses Luke because he is actively lookuing for him- and I would reckon it was the name that let him twig onto the slight possibility that they were related...

That's not entirely true, Ush. Vader sensed Luke during the Death Star Trench run. ("The Force is strong with this one."

That's just a term for good fortune, surely?

You think? I don't. Vader was on Luke's tail and he sensed it. Maybe it was because of OB1's presence, but I'm quite sure it was about Luke's force sensitivity.

I agree with queeq..(did I say that again ?) Vader was sensing Luke in the DS trench. It was the same time Luke was using the force to target the reactor shaft. I've heard some people say that was the moment they knew about the father/son relationship.

I don't think he was using the Force in any way that could be sensed to hit the shaft; he was using his Force-based gift of incredible instinct.I'm pretty sure Vader says "The Force is Strong with this one" in the same way we would say "This one is a tricky bugger, eh?"

In terms of Leia in case anyone wanted to know Leia was a jedi by the point of Dark Empire II and along side Luke slew the returned emperor. Besides that, I actually shall stand against the common man in that I quite like that Han got the girl even if it does mean he at some point may be forced to settle down. Luke on the other hand as already been highlighted in other chats as a bit of a nancy boy. Not that I'm claiming he has strange proclivities, but none the less I'm happier for Han than I would be for Luke. As for the galaxy wuld you truly trust the whole galaxies fate to one person? personnaly I think the other who helpedsave it anyway was Anakin or vader given if it wasn't for him Luke would never have seen the end of the Emperor, though in fairness he may have been blown up, though no actualy I'll hold to my point. As much as I liked Tarkin I believe the Emperor would have had more balls to get the shutle and be out of there when he sensed danger..

Careful, Zareil, they really like Luke around here...

YEs but surely everyone is entitled to an opinion. Sorry Its not that I dont like Luke I just think that there was more to the galaxy than the singular hero. The saga wouldn't have been complete without his fellow companions. Plus Han got way better dialogue in all the films. Maybe just me dont know. Oh and your on my tail. arrggh stay on target...

We're too close!

you and me or the brother sister thang? - to the bar?

I SO disagree with you on the Vader quote in the DS trench run, Ush. As we know from the conference room scene earlier in the movie, Vader takes the Force-thing very VERY seriously. I doubt he'd use that for a general "luck"-statement.
I mean, you wouldn't say "God is with him" when you don't believe in God and you feel someone is lucky. Yet, you DO say "Goodbye" to people (which originally means "God bless you".) So "May the Force be with You" is like that, but what Vader said is NOT. IMHO OC.

I'd be amazed if I was wrong, but there you go.

So would I.

I dont know thats a tough one that backs down to the semantics of the film. 1st off whilst he is big up on the force gig, he believed that all the jedi were already dead. As such having already discovered that Obi wan had still been kicking about he probably took great interest in the fact that he sensed such matters. I dont think that he was pulling a Han stunt and quoting a phrase out of general banter to his following support troops... sorry Ush that means I'm with Queeq no matter how great you are

'The Force be With You" is a general term for luck throughout the trilogy. I'm certain that's what GL meant in that case. He had no idea who he was firing at.

THe force be with you maybe, the force is strong with this one I dont think so. Besides which think about religous figure heads. When they say God Bless you they mean it. And As a master of the syth to him it is a religion so he quite possibly takes it all quite a bit more seriously

The Jedi use 'the Force' as a term of good luck as well. The Will of the Force and so on.

Sorry just in bar and answering Superhero question. Yes see your point but I cant really see Vader wishing anyone any luck...

He wasn't WISHING him luck, he was just commenting on the fact that his target had some. I'm really sure that's what GL meant.

Contextually and the way he said it I dont see that but I'll leave you to your own judgement everyone is allowed their own opinion...

I'm remarkably sure on this one... Vader is not acting like someone who has just discovered another Jedi when he thought they were all dead. He's acting like someone who is having difficulty shooting someone down.

Besides, even if you think that Luke was using the Force in a way that could be sensed- which I don't- he didn't start using it until he turned off the targeting omputer, which was AFTER that line.

Vader could just tell that Luke had some Force potential. That's what I think he meant. I agree that he didn't know that it was his son.

Of course he didn't. I'm absolutely sure Vader was talking about his Force sensitivity, I think he was surprised detecting someone else with Force powers after OB1 died.

If you go back to the scene with the officers at the beginning of the film we see Vader as a dedicated believer, taking the Force VERY seriously and not accepting any sneers on the topic. So I doubt he was just using that line here as a general comment on the pilot's luck. "In my experience there is no such thing as luck."

Uh-huh- hence he doesn't say "this pilot is lucky," he saysd
"The Force is Strong with him!" Jedi substitute the Will fo the Force for luck- with a slight contextual difference,. becauser it can mean skill as well. It is meant to represent his current good performance- if the Force is with you, you cannot fail.

And as I have said, Luke was not using the Force, aside from good reflexes, when Vader said the line. And Vader does NOT sound lime someone who is surprisrd to find a Force Adept! He sounds like someone commenting on a tricky kill!

Vader's line has become synonomous- certainly with my friends- to someone being lucky/skillful. I have never had one moment in which I doubted his meaning.

And if he could have picked it up from such a vague source, then he WOULD have detected Leia.

When did it become canon that Force sensitivity can only be sensed when someone is using it? There is nothing that indicates that, it's just an explanation used for a possible reason why OB1 and Yoda were never discovered.

Where is it said that it can be sensed at all?

My explanation is the simplest and most likely.

Who is to say that he didn't sense it on Leia the first time he met her? Remember, they had met prior to ANH. My guess is that Vader sensed it but did not worry because there was nothing to worry about. Perhaps he only worried about Luke cause he was fighting and flying very well and he just happened to notice he had Force potential. And maybe Luke is stronger in the Force than Leia somehow. That is probably the reason Luke was trained first. I know they are twins and everything, but maybe Luke got more of daddies genes.

Well, Vader got VERY close the Leia and didn't notice the link (like I say, a DNA profile would have been trouble...). If anything, that only reinforces my point.

If he had thought there was a Force adept on that ship, he would have reacted VERY differently.

And what else do people think that Vader would say about someone who is giving him toruble? He wouldn't blame his skill anmd he doesn't beleive in luck. So- "The Force is Strong with this one". Incredibly reasonable.

AND no-one has yet done anthing about the bad logic of the situation. Luke was not using the Force at the time. He wasn't doing anything that a normal person could not have done. Until he bullseyed the port, he didn't do anything abnormal. We have no reason to suspect that Vader could sense anything from him, passive or otherwise.

Why overcomplicate? NEVER overcomplicate. My explanation stands the eaiest.

Vader wiped out the Jedi, not all Force potentail people. I feel that as long as they believed the jedi themselves to be extinct then Force pontentials could be ignored, or even utilised by the Empire.

Perhaps, but it doesn't really affect my point.