Religion : Why do you?

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Regret
If you believe in some form of religion:

Why do you WANT to.

Why do you CHOOSE to.

Why do you WISH to.

Why do you LIKE to.

I am looking for more than one sentence answers please.

Alliance
wow

debbiejo
whoa

Is this a set up for tomorrows people...........lol

Alliance
yeah

Regret
Thanks guys rolleyes1

Regret
Originally posted by debbiejo
whoa

Is this a set up for tomorrows people...........lol
whistle

It's too bad, I might not be back until Friday after tonight sad have a small business trip, and I usually do other things while out and about

Alliance
are you flying?

debbiejo
Was wondering the same thing...............lol

ohhhhhhhh I was talking about the original questions ......haha embarrasment

Regret
yeah, it's just an hour or so away, going to Vegas for a few days.

Alliance
oh..good luck

Regret
Thanks stick out tongue

Alliance
should be interesting...

Regret
My trip?

debbiejo
No, you're thread............ wink

Regret
K, yeah, I hope so. I'll have my PDA with me, will probably check it, but dunno if I'll feel like dealing with PDA speed internet

Alliance
messed

lil bitchiness
Keep this on topic or Im going to close it.

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Keep this on topic or Im going to close it.

Ok, I will make the first attempt at answering the thread starter.

I choose to follow Jesus because:

1. What I believe He has done for me by His sacrifice for me.

2. What He has done for me to remove the desire for drugs in my life.

3. What He has promised in scripture that He will do for me in the future.

I know it sounds a little selfish that all my answers are about "Me", but if we are all honest with ourselves...arn't we all selfish?

marcu
There is many reasons why I choose to believe in God! I am a christian. But i will share a more common sense in this world theory as to why I follow the Lord! Bare with me as i am not the greatest at explaining things!

Ok, besides the obvious things that will typically be said, such as... Jesus died for our sins, forgiveness, faith..etc... Here is the other reason. I see it this way, what do i have to loose by living here on earth in the best way possible! Being kind, loving, trusthworthy, generous, read my bible, search for inspiration, attend church and hear a message that should only inspire me to do better, be faithful, not kill, not cheat or steal, love my neighbors....generally be the best i can be!! I have nothing to loose by living my life in such a way! Just say for arguments sake that there is no God or Heaven, what do I loose in my life here on earth if i strive to be a God follower and a great citizen? I don't believe i would regret living a good life at the end. I do though believe that i will be judged one day..so i strive to grow a personal relationship with God. I hope that made sense to you! Have a great day and if you respond I shall read it and post again! smile

Regret
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Ok, I will make the first attempt at answering the thread starter.

I choose to follow Jesus because:

1. What I believe He has done for me by His sacrifice for me.

While I believe that I understand your view here, I don't believe that everyone in this thread will understand what you mean by this. Why do you believe that he did sacrifice himself? How is this important to you, what does this mean to you? If you believe something that may be different from the views of other Christians could you explain this? What are the things about your particular stance on Christianity that make your belief what it is?

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
2. What He has done for me to remove the desire for drugs in my life.

What has he done? How has he done it? More elaboration is what I am looking for.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
3. What He has promised in scripture that He will do for me in the future.

What has he promised in scripture? Explain.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I know it sounds a little selfish that all my answers are about "Me", but if we are all honest with ourselves...arn't we all selfish?

In many ways I think that religion and practice of a religion are very frequently due to selfish reasons. I think that is a major difference between us and Christ, I think his motives were entirely altruistic with no selfishness in them.

These answers are good, but I am looking for more elaboration in responses. I want to understand why you are the religious person you are. I hope that a productive discussion of these reasons will help all of us come to have a better level of respect for each others views. I also hope that those of differing faiths can come to understand each others reasons for believing how we believe.




Originally posted by marcu
There is many reasons why I choose to believe in God! I am a christian. But i will share a more common sense in this world theory as to why I follow the Lord! Bare with me as i am not the greatest at explaining things!

Ok, besides the obvious things that will typically be said, such as... Jesus died for our sins, forgiveness, faith..etc... Here is the other reason. I see it this way, what do i have to loose by living here on earth in the best way possible! Being kind, loving, trusthworthy, generous, read my bible, search for inspiration, attend church and hear a message that should only inspire me to do better, be faithful, not kill, not cheat or steal, love my neighbors....generally be the best i can be!! I have nothing to loose by living my life in such a way! Just say for arguments sake that there is no God or Heaven, what do I loose in my life here on earth if i strive to be a God follower and a great citizen? I don't believe i would regret living a good life at the end. I do though believe that i will be judged one day..so i strive to grow a personal relationship with God. I hope that made sense to you! Have a great day and if you respond I shall read it and post again! smile

Thanks for your post marcu. If you feel that, after reading my questions of Justbyfaith, that you could provide a more in depth response feel free. I do not have any comments on your post at this time, if others do I hope they will post them.

I hope that other beliefs will be presented as well. While I am interested in Christian beliefs, I am more curious about other beliefs than I am about Christians. Why is a person Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Confucionist (sorry if I butchered that one), Jew (besides birth), Shinto, Jain, Zoroastrian, and any other that may present as well as atheist and agnostic.

I am also interested in the sub-sect of your religion, if you are Methodist Christian, Catholic, a sub-sect of Islam, a particular area in Hindu, are you a Mahayana Buddhist or Theravada, etc.

Alliance
Notice how the only ones with fast answers are the two ultra-religious people. Its as if they are recited.

Unfortunately regret, many of those areas have very low numbers of adherents and unfortunately due to a combination of poverty and regionalism...many of those sects are not as likely to be able to state their opinoins. cry

Regret
yeah, But I would like to see it. I assume many Christians believe for similar reasons to mine. It would be interesting to see any differences or similarities that may exist.

I think ultra religious have probably thought through their reasons for being religious. Makes sense that they would answer more quickly.

I think a major issue is that the western world is our main source of population, probably due to language constraint on the site.

Alliance
I'm ultra non-religious.

Regret
Fine wink ultra somethings often have their view well thought out...or not at all thought out.

debbiejo
Language of the ancient along with the terms as we would call it examples "raining cats and dogs" did apply to their wording as well, which makes semitics difficult.

Alliance
Originally posted by Regret
Fine wink ultra somethings often have their view well thought out...or not at all thought out.

Thats correct. Thats why new evidence should always support your theory. I hardly think I'm as bad as many strong-wingers.

Your opinoin?

Mindship
Leaving the definition of "God" aside for the moment, and given my respect for the scientific method--including its theoretical potential for discovering nonempirical truths)--I "tend to believe" because...

1. ...arguments against the existence of God, IMO, are even less convincing than the arguments for; and...

2. ...keeping God in the picture offers me 2 distinct advantages: a) a larger explanatory map of reality, and b) an enormous source of comfort and healing in times of stress and loss.

For me, the final analysis is this (the kinder, gentler version of Pascal's Wager): if I am wrong and atheists are right (ie, there is no God), none of us will ever know it. Period.

For what it's worth, this conclusion was not arrived at overnight. We're talking years of study and personal exploration to come to, what I feel, is the most honest conclusion.

Alliance
I feel the smae way about my conclusion.

1. There is no argument, imo, for the existance of any sort of spiritual being. If people need the moral code and stability of relgion to help them do whats right, thats fine by me.

2. Is keeping god on the map right if its just the easy way out? This is basically my main point. Is there any shame in being wrong? In saying we don't know? To me saying these things are a sign of strength and of personal respect. Its the real way, instead of taking the easy way out.

Regret
Originally posted by Mindship
Leaving the definition of "God" aside for the moment, and given my respect for the scientific method--including its theoretical potential for discovering nonempirical truths)--I "tend to believe" because...

1. ...arguments against the existence of God, IMO, are even less convincing than the arguments for; and...

2. ...keeping God in the picture offers me 2 distinct advantages: a) a larger explanatory map of reality, and b) an enormous source of comfort and healing in times of stress and loss.

For me, the final analysis is this (the kinder, gentler version of Pascal's Wager): if I am wrong and atheists are right (ie, there is no God), none of us will ever know it. Period.

For what it's worth, this conclusion was not arrived at overnight. We're talking years of study and personal exploration to come to, what I feel, is the most honest conclusion.

Now this is nearly exactly the type of response I was looking for. Now, are you merely agnostic, or do you hold with a specific form of belief? If a specific form, what and why?

Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
Thats correct. Thats why new evidence should always support your theory. I hardly think I'm as bad as many strong-wingers.

Your opinoin?

If I understand what you are saying. You consider things when you argue them. New evidence shapes your view.

I think this is the manner that people should approach everything. You should have a strong opinion that is open to reevaluation dependant on information gained through various experience. Religion is no different.

If I understood you, then yes, imo you are not as bad as many "strong-wingers"

Mindship
Originally posted by Alliance
Is keeping god on the map right if its just the easy way out? This is basically my main point. Is there any shame in being wrong? In saying we don't know? To me saying these things are a sign of strength and of personal respect. Its the real way, instead of taking the easy way out.

There is no shame in being wrong, or in saying one doesn't know--indeed, often these are the first true steps toward knowing. And I agree that the "Practical Agnostic's" POV would be an easy way out IF one did not take the time and effort to explore all possibilities.

I can also understand a person being satisfied with "I don't know." But for me, personally, it's not enough. I mean, I Still Don't Know: I can't escape that. Sometimes I feel like I've walked out half-way through a movie that I'd love to know the end to. So I seek other criteria for my map, a kind of "consolation prize," ready to be dropped, if necessary, should I ever get to see the end of that "movie."

Mindship
Originally posted by Regret
Now this is nearly exactly the type of response I was looking for. Now, are you merely agnostic, or do you hold with a specific form of belief? If a specific form, what and why?

"Pragmatic Agnosticism," I would call it (see my response to Alliance), nurtured through meditation, lucid dreaming, and a study of quantum mechanics, cosmology and Transpersonal Psychology.

Since I do "tend to believe," and accepting that God is beyond all word, symbol or thought, the best I can offer is my Dream Metaphor. But this is not the only way I look at God; this metaphor serves one purpose (say, a "grand overview"wink, while other metaphors help me to be in touch with other aspects of God (eg, God the Father, God as Love, is very comforting).

But ultimately, for me, God is an experience, whether emanating from an act of kindness one person shows another, or caught in the whisper of the wind through the leaves of a tree, or glimpsed, ever, Ever so fleetingly, via meditation.

Regret
I'll post my reasons, give the forum something to attack since I'm getting less response than I had expected.

Regret
I like the idea of God. I figure that if it is possible, it would be best to stick with the ones that include bad things happening if you do not do things. This way you are covered on the non-Bad front. You then choose the one that is the most demanding, this will cover requirements of less demanding beliefs. You also make sure that the "Heaven" of that belief is acceptable to you. I personally don't care if I go to hell it heaven is not any better as far as my opinion goes. Probably due to my upbringing, I am a follower of the Bible.

I am Mormon because I like the God presented there. I believe in the personal view of God that is held. I believe that God is a caring father. Mormons believe this. As a father he wants his children to become like him, just like any father would. From a Mormon stance God wants his children to become as he is. He did not create us just to have someone to say "Way to go God!!!!"

I also like the LDS (Mormon) Church because it, imo, tends to agree with science more frequently than most religions. Not always 100% of the time, but more frequently than most.

I think I answered the questions I posed.

Shakyamunison

Alliance
Originally posted by Mindship
There is no shame in being wrong, or in saying one doesn't know--indeed, often these are the first true steps toward knowing. And I agree that the "Practical Agnostic's" POV would be an easy way out IF one did not take the time and effort to explore all possibilities.

I can also understand a person being satisfied with "I don't know." But for me, personally, it's not enough. I mean, I Still Don't Know: I can't escape that. Sometimes I feel like I've walked out half-way through a movie that I'd love to know the end to. So I seek other criteria for my map, a kind of "consolation prize," ready to be dropped, if necessary, should I ever get to see the end of that "movie."

I guess my final point would be, is it worth having a facade of a conclusion, just to have one.

Personally, I feel quality.

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by Regret
While I believe that I understand your view here, I don't believe that everyone in this thread will understand what you mean by this. Why do you believe that he did sacrifice himself? How is this important to you, what does this mean to you? If you believe something that may be different from the views of other Christians could you explain this? What are the things about your particular stance on Christianity that make your belief what it is?



What has he done? How has he done it? More elaboration is what I am looking for.



What has he promised in scripture? Explain.



In many ways I think that religion and practice of a religion are very frequently due to selfish reasons. I think that is a major difference between us and Christ, I think his motives were entirely altruistic with no selfishness in them.

These answers are good, but I am looking for more elaboration in responses. I want to understand why you are the religious person you are. I hope that a productive discussion of these reasons will help all of us come to have a better level of respect for each others views. I also hope that those of differing faiths can come to understand each others reasons for believing how we believe.






Thanks for your post marcu. If you feel that, after reading my questions of Justbyfaith, that you could provide a more in depth response feel free. I do not have any comments on your post at this time, if others do I hope they will post them.

I hope that other beliefs will be presented as well. While I am interested in Christian beliefs, I am more curious about other beliefs than I am about Christians. Why is a person Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Confucionist (sorry if I butchered that one), Jew (besides birth), Shinto, Jain, Zoroastrian, and any other that may present as well as atheist and agnostic.

I am also interested in the sub-sect of your religion, if you are Methodist Christian, Catholic, a sub-sect of Islam, a particular area in Hindu, are you a Mahayana Buddhist or Theravada, etc.

Your questions are relevant. I can only answer with scripture. Will answers with scripture meet the requests of your questions?

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by Alliance
Notice how the only ones with fast answers are the two ultra-religious people. Its as if they are recited.

Unfortunately regret, many of those areas have very low numbers of adherents and unfortunately due to a combination of poverty and regionalism...many of those sects are not as likely to be able to state their opinoins. cry

What I noticed was the previous 15 or so posts before our answers that had nothing to do with the question posed by the Thread starter?

Alliance
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
What I noticed was the previous 15 or so posts before our answers that had nothing to do with the question posed by the Thread starter?

Thats true...we can be a bit off topic.

Mindship
Originally posted by Alliance
Personally, I feel quality.

I agree. We just disagree on what a quality conclusion would be.

Regret
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Your questions are relevant. I can only answer with scripture. Will answers with scripture meet the requests of your questions?

I am looking for personal reasons for most things. Why do you personally believe what you do. If, given no religion in your life, what would be the reasons you would believe what you do. If you are unable to describe what, or why, you believe in your own words, I am not sure it fits what I am looking for. If you use scripture to support your statements of belief then that does fit, but if the only thing available is scripture, we can read scripture and interpret it the same as we would if you post only direct quotes.

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by Regret
I am looking for personal reasons for most things. Why do you personally believe what you do. If, given no religion in your life, what would be the reasons you would believe what you do. If you are unable to describe what, or why, you believe in your own words, I am not sure it fits what I am looking for. If you use scripture to support your statements of belief then that does fit, but if the only thing available is scripture, we can read scripture and interpret it the same as we would if you post only direct quotes.

Let me ponder your requests...

maham
Originally posted by Regret
If you believe in some form of religion:

Why do you WANT to.

Why do you CHOOSE to.

Why do you WISH to.

Why do you LIKE to.

I am looking for more than one sentence answers please.
Simple answer:2 go 2 heaven.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by maham
Simple answer:2 go 2 heaven.

But heaven is here, not some other place.

Regret
Originally posted by maham
Simple answer:2 go 2 heaven.

And why have you decided that your religion will get you there, and not some other? What are your reasons for being religious in the way you are? Why do you remain the religion you are? Why is your religion a better choice for you?

debbiejo
I agree with Shaky........you can make you life a heaven or a hell........though I do believe there is still an after place we could go...but not as a reward............everyone goes there..........there's even a scripture that says "The spirit returns to god who gave it"...........

Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But heaven is here, not some other place.
yes yes...ish

maham
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But heaven is here, not some other place.

This is wat u call heaven? Can u count how many ppl die each day bcuz of injustice?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by maham
This is wat u call heaven? Can u count how many ppl die each day bcuz of injustice?

This is also hell. wink

maham
Originally posted by Regret
And why have you decided that your religion will get you there, and not some other? What are your reasons for being religious in the way you are? Why do you remain the religion you are? Why is your religion a better choice for you?

Cuz watever it says is logical n rite.

Regret
Originally posted by maham
Cuz watever it says is logical n rite.

And what makes it so? Give some examples. I am not attacking, this thread was created so that people could get an in depth explanation of other people's reasons for believing what they do, as such, I am merely asking for more depth to your answer.

maham
Hmm....cuz watever it tells u 2 do is easy n any1 wud feel comfortable doin it lik no1 minds if he is not discriminated n gets equal rites.It changes ur life,gives u success in this world n the after world. It gives u a satisfaction that even if u hav 2 endure hardships in this world,the Afterlife will hold somethin gud 4 u as wat u did in this world was righteous n gud.

Sai1
Originally posted by maham
Simple answer:2 go 2 heaven.

Is it me or is this the reason most people belive in God (or try to makes themselves do so).

Heaven sometimes seems to be the shiny carrot tied to a stick and waved in front of people for incentive to belive. That or Hell is used to scare people from disbelieving. But who knows.

Justbyfaith
I trust in Him for what He has done for me. I don't believe to avoid hell, I believe because of what he has done for me and promises He said He will do for those who love Him.

Sai1
Originally posted by Mindship

b) an enormous source of comfort and healing in times of stress and loss.


This is very true. I've prayed to God before in very desperate situatiuons and I'm fairly agnostic. Just in case, you know. wink For the same reasons I also still say my prayers before I go to bed. If I'm not too sleepy. big grin

Sai1

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by Sai1
This is very true. I've prayed to God before in very desperate situatiuons and I'm fairly agnostic. Just in case, you know. wink For the same reasons I also still say my prayers before I go to bed. If I'm not too sleepy. big grin

Good News:

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding of things. Acknowledge Him in all your ways and he shall direct your paths."

Proverbs

cking
now that is a good proverb.

Sai1
Originally posted by cking
now that is a good proverb.


Perhaps, but unfortunately, here's another proverb.


"Easier said than done."

Regret
Originally posted by maham
Hmm....cuz watever it tells u 2 do is easy n any1 wud feel comfortable doin it lik no1 minds if he is not discriminated n gets equal rites.It changes ur life,gives u success in this world n the after world. It gives u a satisfaction that even if u hav 2 endure hardships in this world,the Afterlife will hold somethin gud 4 u as wat u did in this world was righteous n gud.

Thank you for the answer, I believe this your reason for your beliefs. If I may I will probe deeper. I do this with you because I have had less exposure to Muslims than I have those of other faiths, do not think I am attacking you due to the difference.

As far as compared to other religions, it seems that most claim the same thing. It makes sense that if a set of beliefs, no matter which set of beliefs, maintain morals and cleanliness aspects, as well as social conduct guidelines, the people that follow it will achieve success. What is it that separates Islam from other religions? Is there something it has that other religions do not claim?

cking
I use the "easier said than done" proverb all the time.

Alliance
Proverbs are cheesy!

maham
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I trust in Him for what He has done for me. I don't believe to avoid hell, I believe because of what he has done for me and promises He said He will do for those who love Him.

maham
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This is also hell. wink

Wat is heaven is not hell n wat is hel is not heaven.These r 2 comletely separate thingd.U cannot mix them up.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Regret
If you believe in some form of religion:

Why do you WANT to.

Why do you CHOOSE to.

Why do you WISH to.

Why do you LIKE to.

I am looking for more than one sentence answers please. they are delusional by thinking they are right.

Punkyhermy
Because it only makes sense to me.

IceDragon
Its because Jesus christ died for us and he is offering us the free gift of salvation. All we have to do is believe in him and we are saved. Nice deal dont you think?

Regret
Originally posted by IceDragon
Its because Jesus christ died for us and he is offering us the free gift of salvation. All we have to do is believe in him and we are saved. Nice deal dont you think?

wink

The question is, why do you believe that?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by maham
Wat is heaven is not hell n wat is hel is not heaven.These r 2 comletely separate thingd.U cannot mix them up.

That is only your opinion. My point is that there is no heaven or hell that you go to after death. The only heaven or hell is here in this life.

maham
Originally posted by Sai1
Is it me or is this the reason most people belive in God (or try to makes themselves do so).

Heaven sometimes seems to be the shiny carrot tied to a stick and waved in front of people for incentive to belive. That or Hell is used to scare people from disbelieving. But who knows.
Well it is.Otherwise y wud any1 do go or refrain 4m sins?

maham
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is only your opinion. My point is that there is no heaven or hell that you go to after death. The only heaven or hell is here in this life.
N that is UR opinion isn't it?

DigiMark007
Since no one's actually answered the questions for a while, I'll attempt to get us back on topic:

If you believe in some form of religion: Debatable, primarily since I feel that labels limits us in our understanding of humanity. I'll never be a part of a 'religion' but do have beliefs that would normally be considered 'religious'

Why do you WANT to: Most of what I believe (or don't believe) I have some empyrical (i.e. non-blind-faith) way of being able to justify my point. I can't "prove" any theory in religious matters, but I don't believe anything without a strong rational justification for it.

Why do you CHOOSE to: Currently, my hot-button religious issue is whether or not everything we do is determined. So I'm actually on the fence as to whether or not we actually "choose" anything, or whether it's all chosen in advance, either by some higher power or simply by the laws of natural physics.

Why do you WISH to: Meh, it's fun. I can't go through life being vaguely 'spiritual', a popular word for those who wish to believe in something but are too lazy to find out what it is they believe in.

Why do you LIKE to: So that I can acheive some form of enlightenment (or God, to some understanding), whether it is in this life, or one of my future ones.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by maham
N that is UR opinion isn't it?

No, because to say that anything happens after death requires proof. But saying that life is heaven or hell, depending on the individual's life condition, can be supported by stories told by people in extreme conditions.

maham
Originally posted by Regret
Thank you for the answer, I believe this your reason for your beliefs. If I may I will probe deeper. I do this with you because I have had less exposure to Muslims than I have those of other faiths, do not think I am attacking you due to the difference.

As far as compared to other religions, it seems that most claim the same thing. It makes sense that if a set of beliefs, no matter which set of beliefs, maintain morals and cleanliness aspects, as well as social conduct guidelines, the people that follow it will achieve success. What is it that separates Islam from other religions? Is there something it has that other religions do not claim?
Well,I m not smart but I'll try 2 answer ur q.

The thing that separates Islam 4m all other religions of the world mite just b the blief in 1 God.God is 1.He is the Almighty,the Alpowerful.He is the only 1 who shud b worshipped.If u want anythin,ask Him.Islam means surrender 2 God.HE knos in wat pain u r n that pain n sufferin is a test.Thank God in all conditions cuz u kno it's a test.N when u start ssein all the worries of this world as a test ,half the load is off ur shoulders.N if u do rite in this world even if u hav 2 endure pains,u kno that u hav done somethin that has brought u close 2 God so when u'll leave this world u hav a better 1 comin.This satisfaction of success in both worlds n the belief in 1 God makes ur life easier, in this world as well as the other.

Hope I answered ur q.

Sai1
Originally posted by maham
Well it is.Otherwise y wud any1 do go or refrain 4m sins?

How about becasue people might actually want to be part of productive society, if not at the very least avoid being a hindranace to it. Are you telling me that if for argument's sake, there definately was no god, heaven, or hell you would go around sinning as much as you liked?

Sai1
Originally posted by IceDragon
Its because Jesus christ died for us and he is offering us the free gift of salvation. All we have to do is believe in him and we are saved. Nice deal dont you think?


Is that how most people see it I wonder. A "deal".

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by IceDragon
Its because Jesus christ died for us and he is offering us the free gift of salvation. All we have to do is believe in him and we are saved. Nice deal dont you think?

There is nothing to be saved from.

Alliance
Originally posted by IceDragon
Its because Jesus christ died for us and he is offering us the free gift of salvation. All we have to do is believe in him and we are saved. Nice deal dont you think?

It seems like a nice easy way to get a bunch of followers and keep the tax money flowing.

Regret

Alliance
It might be possible to argue that unless you change your religion, you haven't explored enough.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
It might be possible to argue that unless you change your religion, you haven't explored enough.

How many times? Is once enough?

Alliance
It may be....depending on what is explored. Once my be enough, but it should never be percieved as a limit.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
It may be....depending on what is explored. Once my be enough, but it should never be percieved as a limit.

I agree. Changing once is a big step, and I don't count small differences. Like going from one Church to another, but big changes like going from a Christian to a Buddhist. wink

Alliance
But thankfully, little changes can accumulate into big ones. Any change is significant. Any drop of water can become a waterfall.

Regret
I think it is more of the idea that one must keep an open mind. I think a closed mind is a sign of the pride that the Bible states is sin wink

O Green World
Ok, i'll tell you why i believe in a god...

1. Because i want to believe there's someone out there who, if something happens to my family, actually cares about me... Because i believe very few others do care about me... It makes me feel asthough i actually matter, instead of the atheist 'fact' that i'm an ape who just appeared for no apparent reason, in other words the only reason i'd be alive is because of a stupid thing called evolution. If there is no reason for being alive why stay alive, that's what i say....

2. Because it suits my view of good much more than the "satanist without a god" view an atheist takes on. I was brought into being christian, but i don't feel limited like most non-christians think it will be, because the only things that are limited are the things that need limiting...

Sai1
Originally posted by O Green World
Ok, i'll tell you why i believe in a god...

1. Because i want to believe there's someone out there who, if something happens to my family, actually cares about me... Because i believe very few others do care about me... It makes me feel asthough i actually matter, instead of the atheist 'fact' that i'm an ape who just appeared for no apparent reason, in other words the only reason i'd be alive is because of a stupid thing called evolution. If there is no reason for being alive why stay alive, that's what i say....

2. Because it suits my view of good much more than the "satanist without a god" view an atheist takes on. I was brought into being christian, but i don't feel limited like most non-christians think it will be, because the only things that are limited are the things that need limiting...

I think for most, the main reason can be summed up with just the first four/five words of your post.


P.S.
Not the "Okay I'll tell you" part.

Alliance
I swear its a compulsion that was beated into people.

Today I was reading about a practice in africa where mothers iron (with hot stones) their daughters brests off during puberty to make them less "attractive to men and less likely to be raped." If you didn't guess, this is a very cruel, painful, and harmful process that often results in cancer and the inability to lactate properly upon pregnancy.

Why does this happen to 35% of the population (I forget which nation)? Because people have been told from birth that its good for them and prevents rape and lust. Thier mothers do it to them, thier grandmothers did it to thier mothers, and so on and so forth. Its ingrained and people just accept.

This is how religion works.

Sai1
Originally posted by O Green World
Ok, i'll tell you why i believe in a god...

1. Because i want to believe there's someone out there who, if something happens to my family, actually cares about me... Because i believe very few others do care about me... It makes me feel asthough i actually matter, instead of the atheist 'fact' that i'm an ape who just appeared for no apparent reason, in other words the only reason i'd be alive is because of a stupid thing called evolution. If there is no reason for being alive why stay alive, that's what i say....

2. Because it suits my view of good much more than the "satanist without a god" view an atheist takes on. I was brought into being christian, but i don't feel limited like most non-christians think it will be, because the only things that are limited are the things that need limiting...


Regarding #2, there are a lot more options to choose from besides Christianity and Satanism. Doesn't have to be one or the other.

O Green World
Originally posted by Sai1
Regarding #2, there are a lot more options to choose from besides Christianity and Satanism. Doesn't have to be one or the other.

I have seen other religions and to be honest my morale, which i have been told is very good, fits perfectly into christianity, in the other ones there is always something that just doesn't seem right....

Originally posted by Alliance
I swear its a compulsion that was beated into people.

Today I was reading about a practice in africa where mothers iron (with hot stones) their daughters brests off during puberty to make them less "attractive to men and less likely to be raped." If you didn't guess, this is a very cruel, painful, and harmful process that often results in cancer and the inability to lactate properly upon pregnancy.

Why does this happen to 35% of the population (I forget which nation)? Because people have been told from birth that its good for them and prevents rape and lust. Thier mothers do it to them, thier grandmothers did it to thier mothers, and so on and so forth. Its ingrained and people just accept.

This is how religion works.

Yeah, but my parents don't force me to believe, and neither did my grandparents nor their parents, they just told them what they believed and sent them to sunday school. My cousin isn't christian but his parents are messed and just because it's the way of the religion to spread the word doesn't make it wrong messed... It's like the fact it isn't fair that atheists go around telling their children their views of religion so they grow up to agree messed

Sai1
Originally posted by O Green World

Yeah, but my parents don't force me to believe, and neither did my grandparents nor their parents, they just told them what they believed and sent them to sunday school. My cousin isn't christian but his parents are messed and just because it's the way of the religion to spread the word doesn't make it wrong messed... It's like the fact it isn't fair that atheists go around telling their children their views of religion so they grow up to agree messed


Speaking of which, I'm kinda curious Alliance. What religion are your parents?

Alliance
Congragationalist - UCC

maham
Originally posted by Sai1
How about becasue people might actually want to be part of productive society, if not at the very least avoid being a hindranace to it. Are you telling me that if for argument's sake, there definately was no god, heaven, or hell you would go around sinning as much as you liked?
There is 1 God.He created Heaven n Hell.If u do wrong u go 2 Hell,if u do gud u go 2 Heaven.Simple.Wat ur askin is a completely different topic.

maham
Originally posted by O Green World
Ok, i'll tell you why i believe in a god...

1. Because i want to believe there's someone out there who, if something happens to my family, actually cares about me... Because i believe very few others do care about me... It makes me feel asthough i actually matter, instead of the atheist 'fact' that i'm an ape who just appeared for no apparent reason, in other words the only reason i'd be alive is because of a stupid thing called evolution. If there is no reason for being alive why stay alive, that's what i say....

2. Because it suits my view of good much more than the "satanist without a god" view an atheist takes on. I was brought into being christian, but i don't feel limited like most non-christians think it will be, because the only things that are limited are the things that need limiting...

Bardock42
Originally posted by O Green World
Ok, i'll tell you why i believe in a god...

1. Because i want to believe there's someone out there who, if something happens to my family, actually cares about me... Because i believe very few others do care about me... It makes me feel asthough i actually matter, instead of the atheist 'fact' that i'm an ape who just appeared for no apparent reason, in other words the only reason i'd be alive is because of a stupid thing called evolution. If there is no reason for being alive why stay alive, that's what i say....

2. Because it suits my view of good much more than the "satanist without a god" view an atheist takes on. I was brought into being christian, but i don't feel limited like most non-christians think it will be, because the only things that are limited are the things that need limiting... So basically you have no reason to believe just that it makes you feel better to do so...great.

maham
Isn't that enuf 4 1 2 blieve?U blieve in watever u blieve in cuz it makes u feel satisfied,don't u?

Bardock42
Originally posted by maham
Isn't that enuf 4 1 2 blieve?U blieve in watever u blieve in cuz it makes u feel satisfied,don't u?

Yeah, basically.

If we can all agree that you people jsut believe cause you want to and for no other reason (like that it is most likely true, which it isn't) then that's good. Whatever Floats your Boat. Just don't press it on others.

maham
Whose pressin it? He's just tellin u y he blieves in wat he blieves.N it doesn't only keep ur boat afloat,it keeps them all afloat so every1 shud blieve in it.Not that it's pressin on u.

Bardock42
Originally posted by maham
Whose pressin it? He's just tellin u y he blieves in wat he blieves.N it doesn't only keep ur boat afloat,it keeps them all afloat so every1 shud blieve in it.Not that it's pressin on u.

I wasn't referrring to him, I was referring to people who actually press it on others. You know?

O Green World
Originally posted by Bardock42
So basically you have no reason to believe just that it makes you feel better to do so...great.

And also because there is a book that has scientific facts in it, when it was written long before science existed smile Like the earth being spherical and hung in 'nothing' for example... It also has words that seem to resemble true good.

You have to remember when talking about god, there are alot of things that we know very little about like wormholes etc, so why can't a god be one of them?

Bardock42
Originally posted by O Green World
And also because there is a book that has scientific facts in it, when it was written long before science existed smile Like the earth being spherical and hung in 'nothing' for example... It also has words that seem to resemble true good.

You have to remember when talking about god, there are alot of things that we know very little about like wormholes etc, so why can't a god be one of them?

It says that? Where exactly? And what about the things that are just scientifically wrong...like the Genesis for example?
But also words that seem to resemble bad, don't you think?

Oh it might be possible that some sort of God exists, I'm not denying that, it's just in no way proven. Not very likely either.

JesusIsAlive
Bardock,

The fool has said in his heart there is no God. Are you one of the people that God is referring to?

Alliance
Look at that, Chirstians devised a religion that persecustes non-Chirstians and tries to keep Chirstians from becomign something else.

Alliance
Originally posted by O Green World
And also because there is a book that has scientific facts in it, when it was written long before science existed smile Like the earth being spherical and hung in 'nothing' for example... It also has words that seem to resemble true good.

You have to remember when talking about god, there are alot of things that we know very little about like wormholes etc, so why can't a god be one of them?

laughing Scientific facts. laughing

CHRONICLES 16:30 "The earth ... shall be stable, that it be not moved." It doesn't spin on its axis or travel about the sun. DOn't forget ti rests on the pillars of your god.

EZEKIEL 7:2 "Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land." Please...the flat earth has four courners.

Bardock42
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Bardock,

The fool has said in his heart there is no God. Are you one of the people that God is referring to?

Nah....I might be one of those people who the person writing about a God is referring to though.

Although I would be more than happy to feel God's presence....I just don't.

debbiejo
It's because there is no presence as we've been taught or told....We are all parts of it, so we are just feeling each others presence and connecting to what we let ourselves connect/feel/imagine which is creating.

IMO <------ big grin

cking
huh

debbiejo
^^ laughing out loud OK, kinda like the force......

cking
so debbiejo are you one with the force?

Regret
Originally posted by cking
so debbiejo are you one with the force?

The force is strong in you my young padowan...

sorry couldn't help it wink

cking
debbiejo should demonstrate her force abilities.

Regret
She has, ever seen her sit on the moon? laughing

cking
I can imagine her in star wars as Jedi master debbiejo. she would be the best one by far.

Regret
Yeah, I can just picture it:

Yoda: Hard to see, the dark side is.
Debbiejo: Are you sure there is a dark side? I think the dark side idea comes from the pagan belief that dark is bad and light is good...I bet they even live in rooms full of light, why do we refer to them as "dark"? Shouldn't we refer to them as the "evil" side?

laughing laughing

Regulus A Black
Why do I choose to believe in religion? Why do I choose to believe in God? Why do I believe what I believe? What do I believe?

I choose to believe in religion and I choose to believe in God, because I have seen God's presence active in my life, I have felt his presence all around me. When I was younger, I believed because my parents believed, and it was always easy to answer what and why I believed because of that. But as I got older, things within me started to change, I no longer believed because my parents believed, in fact I didn't believe at all. I am a very scientific person and have always wanted to be a scientist. I looked for evidence proving my parents beliefs and found nothing. Then shortly after giving up on everything, everything in my life went wrong. I lost everything I had known, everybody I had loved. My family had fallen apart and being the youngest nobody listened to me, talked to me, I just dwelt on the fact that nobody in my family paid attention to me, I had no friends whatsoever at school. I was tired of nobody listening to me, including those who were suppose to help me, such as my teachers, nobody would challange me to do my best do become the best I could be. I decided if nobody wanted me around, if nobody loved me, if nobody even noticed I was there, I wasn't going to be there any longer. I attempted suicide many times, and if I had been older, or had access to better weapons, I would have succeeded. Finally one time before I was about to do attempt suicide again, I felt something I had never felt before, there was nobody around me, but I felt a strong presence, a strong loving presence. I immediately dove into studying religion and coming to my own conclusions. So shortly, why do I believe in God is simply because he was there for me when nobody else was even when I didn't believe in him, when I didn't ask for his help, he showed his love for me. I believe in religion because I believe in God. Why do I believe what I believe, because thorugh my study, when it was just me and God, asking him for help anytime I needed it or had a question. I finally found what I was looking for, what the truth was. I KNOW what I believe in is true. I KNOW that God is there. I have felt him, I have seen the effect he has had on my life. I am so thankful for what he has done for me, and since my discovery, I have become a better person, I am no longer as selfish as I once was, I can't say i am selfless, because it is human nature to be selfish, but I tend to place others before me. I'm always willing to lend a helping hand to those who ask, and to offer a hand to those who I feel could use it. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and I KNOW what God has said is true, and I KNOW that he has called prophets today. I KNOW I believe, not because I'm scared, not because it makes me feel better about myself, but because it IS true, God IS there, and has helped me through the hardest times of my life when I didn't ask, want, or believe in him.

cking
all I have to say is god bless you on your journey with god in this life.

Sai1
Originally posted by Regulus A Black
Why do I choose to believe in religion? Why do I choose to believe in God? Why do I believe what I believe? What do I believe?

I choose to believe in religion and I choose to believe in God, because I have seen God's presence active in my life, I have felt his presence all around me. When I was younger, I believed because my parents believed, and it was always easy to answer what and why I believed because of that. But as I got older, things within me started to change, I no longer believed because my parents believed, in fact I didn't believe at all. I am a very scientific person and have always wanted to be a scientist. I looked for evidence proving my parents beliefs and found nothing. Then shortly after giving up on everything, everything in my life went wrong. I lost everything I had known, everybody I had loved. My family had fallen apart and being the youngest nobody listened to me, talked to me, I just dwelt on the fact that nobody in my family paid attention to me, I had no friends whatsoever at school. I was tired of nobody listening to me, including those who were suppose to help me, such as my teachers, nobody would challange me to do my best do become the best I could be. I decided if nobody wanted me around, if nobody loved me, if nobody even noticed I was there, I wasn't going to be there any longer. I attempted suicide many times, and if I had been older, or had access to better weapons, I would have succeeded. Finally one time before I was about to do attempt suicide again, I felt something I had never felt before, there was nobody around me, but I felt a strong presence, a strong loving presence. I immediately dove into studying religion and coming to my own conclusions. So shortly, why do I believe in God is simply because he was there for me when nobody else was even when I didn't believe in him, when I didn't ask for his help, he showed his love for me. I believe in religion because I believe in God. Why do I believe what I believe, because thorugh my study, when it was just me and God, asking him for help anytime I needed it or had a question. I finally found what I was looking for, what the truth was. I KNOW what I believe in is true. I KNOW that God is there. I have felt him, I have seen the effect he has had on my life. I am so thankful for what he has done for me, and since my discovery, I have become a better person, I am no longer as selfish as I once was, I can't say i am selfless, because it is human nature to be selfish, but I tend to place others before me. I'm always willing to lend a helping hand to those who ask, and to offer a hand to those who I feel could use it. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and I KNOW what God has said is true, and I KNOW that he has called prophets today. I KNOW I believe, not because I'm scared, not because it makes me feel better about myself, but because it IS true, God IS there, and has helped me through the hardest times of my life when I didn't ask, want, or believe in him.


I find this to be a more acceptable answer.

Sai1
Originally posted by maham
There is 1 God.He created Heaven n Hell.If u do wrong u go 2 Hell,if u do gud u go 2 Heaven.Simple.Wat ur askin is a completely different topic.


It's not off topic at all. I said earlier that I wondered if heaven or fear of hell was the reason most people chose to belive in God. And you replied that it was because otherwise people would have no reason to refrain from sinning. Therefore, you must be saying that if there were indeed no heaven, hell, nor God to believe in, anyone (including yourself) would go around sinning without reserve.

debbiejo
Originally posted by cking
debbiejo should demonstrate her force abilities. Oh you are all so funny... happy We are all apart of What it is and to think of us all this way would stop many wars and the destruction of our planet........

It's within all of us and all around us. What changes there would be if we all saw ourselves connected like this as in quantum physics teaches........effect = affect.........We could change the world.... yes

Alliance
You really need to start understanding that Theory a bit better....yes

doyer man man
have u every changed ur religeon? anyways, wat religeons are all u guys? and can some1 pm me explaining how u change member status, u know like to moderator or junior membor and stuff? btw, im a Muslim

Templares
Yep. Was a fervent Catholic back in the day; why i almost joined the seminary but Cyric appeared to me in a dream and commanded me to be his cleric. Weilding Implosion, Storm of Vengeance and other Ninth level spells out of the wazzoo for 5 years now laughing out loud.

Alliance
Sounds traumatizing.

The Omega
I read about the heading of this thread in a book, and it got me thinking...
I'm not religious in any sense, I do wonder about human spirituality and it struck me that I, as a person, do not understand people who believe in God or Allah or other deities.
Maybe I can learn more.
If you're a devout religious person perhaps you will answer this question:

What made you choose the religion you follow?

lord xyz
I too would like to know the answer to this question. As an atheist I see religious people as suckers, so do othe Atheists like Karl Marx, Richard Dawkins etc. we all see religion as a mental disease, something that's dangerous, we come to that conclusion ourselves because we have seen the effects of religion and are unbiased in that we don't favour any religions. So if I had a little understanding of how religious people think, maybe I'd see religion in a less disgusted way (or a more disgusted way laughing out loud ).

usagi_yojimbo
Originally posted by The Omega
I read about the heading of this thread in a book, and it got me thinking...
I'm not religious in any sense, I do wonder about human spirituality and it struck me that I, as a person, do not understand people who believe in God or Allah or other deities.
Maybe I can learn more.
If you're a devout religious person perhaps you will answer this question:

What made you choose the religion you follow?

A bunch of threads opened up about this already, but let me answer once again.

We all believe in *deities* to a degree, individuals just choose to conceptualize these *deities* in different ways. I believe there is only one true God, and he is represented in the bible. And I believe that he is loving - based on what I have read within it - and the experiences that I've had in life(good and bad).

For me(and possibly for others), the most difficult part is not in believing that this universe was created from some sort of *higher power* -- Instead, it is difficult for me at times -- to believe that this *higher power* is loving, particularly when so many bad things happen within it.

However - much of this lack of faith - is reconciled with the understanding that not everything considered *bad* by human understanding is unloving. This is something that takes awhile to comprehend, and I still don't completely understand everything God does. But God, with his infinite grace and mercy, has given me the basic ability to understand - that all of his intentions are indeed loving.

So with this understanding -- I find myself having much anticipation and much excitement over having a relationship with this loving God. Think about it -- if God is indeed perfect, then who wouldn't want to have a relationship with him? When you look at this world, and all of it's imperfections - don't you at times long for something that is perfect, and unchanging, and lasts forever?

The answer is a simple "yes" for me. However - as I grow in my faith and understanding(or more appropriately - as God chooses to give me more of these qualities) I understand, that having a relationship with God -- is not just about making me *happy*. It's also about sharing God and happiness with other people.

So in a nutshell, I believe, trust, and greatly admire this God of the bible -- not just because of what he can give -- but because of what he represents. And I hope that in this limited life that he has given to me --I am able to share this love with others.

Lord Urizen
I was once religious. Long ago, when I was 18 I turned Agnostic/psuedo-Athiest, if such a thing even exists.


Ne ways, there are two main reasons I was once Christian: 1) I was raised as such, being very young you will trust anything that someone you love tells you. So I was raised into beleiving in God.

2) I went to Catholic School for the majority of my life. Being in an environment where your only influence is religiously dominated, you will most likely be religious as well.

3) It was easier for me to beleive that there was some kind of superior force that LOVED me, rather than to beleive that I was all on my own. It gave me comfort.



Those are the 3 main reasons. As I got older, I realized that If I was going to base my entire life on this beleif, that I needed more valid reasons to beleive.

Also, the amounts of Hypocrisy, Hatred, and Self-Contradiction that the Church / Religious Community / Conservative Right Wing has displayed for the past decades, has forced me to turn away from a realm that I had no interest in being a part of.

debbiejo
Ancients tagged names to things they didn't understand such as cause and effect. With the evolution of this though and the older science of Astrology, which WAS the science of the time, it all grew into what it IS today.

Storm
Does belief itself actually appears to be a matter of will or choice?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Storm
Does belief itself actually appears to be a matter of will or choice?


Belief is both a choice and a non-choice.


You can choose to beleive something, but you can also beleive something without choosing to do so.

examples:


1) I choose to beleive in God, because I was taught to for years, and because it's easier for me to beleive that there is someone out there watching me, rather than to beleive that I'm on my own.


2) I beleive there IS no God, because none of it makes sense to me. There's too many contradictions, and not enough evidense to back up his existance. I would like to beleive in God again, but I can't get myself to...because I just don't buy it anymore.





There's no true choice in scenario 2....there was a choice in scenario 1.

WrathfulDwarf
No, in scenerio 2 you Chose to conclude there is no God. Clearly you stated "none of it makes sense to me" you also said "but I can't get myself to...because I just don't buy it anymore."

You still making choices.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, in scenerio 2 you Chose to conclude there is no God. Clearly you stated "none of it makes sense to me" you also said "but I can't get myself to...because I just don't buy it anymore."

You still making choices.


No.....I would like to beleive in God again...did you read that part ?


In scenario 2, I still would prefer to beleive in God, despite the contradictions and all the other BS that prevents me from doing so. There is no way, in scenario 2, for me to make a valid choice in beleiving in God, since everything I understand contradicts my preferred beleif, thereby disallowing me to truly beleive.


A choice means you have the ability to go either direction. In scenario 2, I do not have the ability to truly beleive, because no matter how hard I try, I am ALREADY convinced the beleif is WRONG.

Storm
Personally, I don' t feel like I made a choice. My position is the only possible position I can have given my present state of knowledge.

WrathfulDwarf
From my POV you acknowledge the limits of what you know storm. Which I find it to be more logical than making blind choices. It appears you remain open-minded. Then again...I don't want you to think I'm over analyze your personality.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Storm
Personally, I don' t feel like I made a choice. My position is the only possible position I can have given my present state of knowledge.


Exactly yes


Storm beleives what she beleives, not because she WANTED to, but because it's the only thing that makes sense to her.

Likewise, I may have chosen to stop being a Christian, but I did not choose to stop beleiving in God. I have my doubts, I sorta go back and forth, and deep down inside, I would LOVE to beleive in an all-loving being who is watching over me.

But because of factors such as the conflict and stigma religion tends to cause, contradictions that occur within every religious text, the heavy LACK of evidense of Christian-Judeo God's existance, my own knowledge of certain aspects of reality that disprove certain religious assertion....I have no basis to beleive anymore.

I can't MAKE MYSELF beleive in something that makes no sense to me. It doesn't work. I can say "Oh I beleive in Christ, our Lord and Savior, I beleive in Yahweh, etc," All I want, that will not make it true.

Atlantis001

usagi_yojimbo

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