Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

some would argue that mace isn't dead, this is for you to decide, and debate of course

Umm Mace is dead. He got his arm chopped off, was hit by Palpatine's Force Lighting from a few inches away, it was powerful enough to throw him thirty feet out the window, and he fell all the way down to the slums.

Mace = dead

true, but yoda reacted to every death but mace's doesn't that seem wierd since mace and yoda worked together for so long that yoda may have developed a force bond with mace?

Mace is deader than disco. As is Count Dooku sadly. . .

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
true, but yoda reacted to every death but mace's doesn't that seem wierd since mace and yoda worked together for so long that yoda may have developed a force bond with mace? He DID.It was before Palpatine declared every single Jedi to be an enemy of the Republic.

I'm pretty sure the ROTS script says Mace is dead. So hes dead. People who think he is alive are just ridiculously sad, wishful thinking Mace fanboys.

^

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Mace is deader than disco. As is Count Dooku sadly. . .

I agree. Yes, it was a very sad time...

mace is dead. the book says it, the movie all but shows his lifeless corpse hitting the ground. even then im sure there would be some fanboys saying he was just unconcious and could have woken up later. the official site says hes dead too.

He got his arm cut off, suffered intense electrocution, and was shoved out a window to plunge half a kilometer to the streets below.

He'd be a pretty damn tough Jedi to survive that.

He is dead. The only people that argue that fact is certain stupid Mace Fanboys and Mickey Suttle aka supershadow. To be honest pretty much everyone i have ever talked to believes Mace is dead. In order to survive he would have to land on a speeder and then manage to hold on to it. Considering how he had just lost his arm, got blasted with loads of force lightning and fell back first down the side of a very large building. Hmm the odds of survival are 0.000000000000000000000000000001%

Yes, Mace is dead. Let's look at the proof:

1. Star Wars official website says so
2. He was zapped by 10 billion volts of lightning for half a minute
3. He fell out a window and fell 10,000 feet down.
4. Supershadow thinks he's alive (secretly. Even he knows he'll get his butt sued by Lucas if he claims Mace is alive).

Also, Jam-Jul Lison is right. Although I wouldn't say that the chances of survival are 0.000000000000000000000000000001%. I'd say it was more like 1/ 999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999
,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,9
99,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999.
Or more. Or Less Whichever makes you happy.

Let's just go with the chance sof him being alive are nil

He's dead but I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to land on some shuttle going by.

I accept that Mace is dead, but, there are a few things that make me think that he could have survived:

Yoda made no reaction to Mace going out the window. He did however, react to Anakin taking on the mantle of Darth Vader, and the deaths of other Jedi.

An instant before Mace goes out the window, there is a grunt of exertion. The commentary explains that Sam pushed himself out on the wires, he was not ratcheted out (which is the more normal technique for someone being shot or pushed) so that could mean that Mace used the Force to fling himself out of the window and risk the fall rather than stand there getting fried by Palpatine's Force Lightning.

The loss of his hand was hardly a fatal (although definitely serious) wound.

In Clone Wars, Mace was shown surviving several high falls. In Fifth Element, Leeloo's dive is stopped by Korben's cab. Coruscant has a similar amount of air traffic to Earth (in the movie) so it'd be quite possible for Mace to have hit something on the way down, even if he was unconscious.

Force Lightning never made anyone hit by it black out. (In Aotc, Anakin was winded and in pain, but not unconscious. In RotJ Luke was in pain but not unconscious. In RotS, Yoda was knocked out because he was blasted head first into the wall, before falling unconscious, so it's clear that he was knocked out by the blow to his head not the Force Lightning.) It stands to reason, that Mace was not unconscious when he went out the window (as he did so of his own action) although he might have blacked out from the shock of having his hand severed (which pretty much took the fight out of both Anakin and Luke when they had limbs severed. Infact, Dooku was the only person who lost limbs who didn't look as if they were about to pass out, he looked more surprized that it had happened than anything else)

As I said, I accept that Mace is supposed to be dead, but, there is also evidence (and precedents) to show that he either did (or could have) survived, incase they choose to use him in the TV series.

So Agen, Kit, and Seasee lived too. Yoda didn't react to their "deaths." They all crawled away!!! Yay!!!



No. Mace was dead before he hit the ground. By the way, if he hit a speeder on his way down, that would be worse. There were none in the immediate area and he would have already reached terminal velocity and then being hit by a speeder going hundreds of miles/hour. Yeah, dead.

ubertronics...

Originally posted by jollyjim311
So Agen, Kit, and Seasee lived too. Yoda didn't react to their "deaths." They all crawled away!!! Yay!!!
It's possible. Certainly possible Kit survived, he wasn't slashed deeply, where the others were.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
No. Mace was dead before he hit the ground.
From what? I've already pointed out that he had survived similar distances, and that he was conscious when he went out the window.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
By the way, if he hit a speeder on his way down, that would be worse. There were none in the immediate area and he would have already reached terminal velocity and then being hit by a speeder going hundreds of miles/hour. Yeah, dead.
Based on what? Was Anakin killed when he hit Zam's speeder? Was Leeloo killed when she hit Korben's cab? Was Obi-Wan killed when he fell off the cliff into the lake?

no, you make good points vious.

Duh. It's obvious. Mace landed in a speeder with several hot women and in his pimping anger, unleashed wild thrusts of "Vaapad mastery". 9 months later, the lovable gambler/business man Lando Calrissian is born!

thank you Razle i was hoping he got into a car of ugly women, come on don't you know star wars, the only ugly women that are there die.

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
true, but yoda reacted to every death but mace's doesn't that seem wierd since mace and yoda worked together for so long that yoda may have developed a force bond with mace?

Wrong. Yoda was hit by Palpatine's force lighting from a distance and had time to recover. He managed to reflect Palpatine's lighting the second time but was too close and hit by the after shock. He didn't fall all the way due to the Chancellor's pod thingy which saved his life.

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
no, you make good points vious.
Thanks Like I said, I can accept that Mace was dead, Lucas even said in the commentary that all Sam asked for was a cool death. I just think that there's enough evidence and precedent that he could have survived if they then wanted to then bring the character into the TV series and explain how he survived

he could have a tricked out robo arm...

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
he could have a tricked out robo arm...
He could indeed Worked well for the Anakin and Luke

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Mace is deader than disco. As is Count Dooku sadly. . . Awww.. I feel your pain, I still mourn his death aswell and cry myself to sleep aswell.

i wont, it was a day of celebratio for all maul fans worldwide...

I'd just like to point out that ridiculous feats done by Windu in the CW cartoons are non-canon as they contradict what any of the characters can do in the movies/ books etc. Jedi feats are thrown out of proportion in CW, because its a cartoon and as such they can do stupid things.

Mace is dead, there is no way he survived. Live with it.

Then explain the existence of Lando!

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
I'd just like to point out that ridiculous feats done by Windu in the CW cartoons are non-canon as they contradict what any of the characters can do in the movies/ books etc. Jedi feats are thrown out of proportion in CW, because its a cartoon and as such they can do stupid things.

Mace is dead, there is no way he survived. Live with it.
Sorry, but the CW cartoons are as valid canon as the movies, particularly the events that transpired in them. If the events in them are official, then so are the actions of the participants.

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Sorry, but the CW cartoons are as valid canon as the movies, particularly the events that transpired in them. If the events in them are official, then so are the actions of the participants.


Actually CW is considered EU. Did you know that the original Novels made in the 90's were for a time considered canon by Lucasfilm? Then Lucas decided to go agaisnt them, and just like that, they arn't anymore. And can you explain why they can't do what they did in the movies?

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Sorry, but the CW cartoons are as valid canon as the movies, particularly the events that transpired in them. If the events in them are official, then so are the actions of the participants.

First off, NOTHING is as valid canon as the movies.

Second, the CW events are canon, and feats that make sense in terms of the movies are. But things like Mace killing like 500 super-battle droids with the force and his fists alone is not. It goes against everything displayed in the movies, and books etc. that Mace is capable of. In general terms, if it was true, then in Shatterpoint Mace woulda kicked the crap outta Kar vastor, but he lost (yet in the CW cartoons he can punch through durasteel, but somehow later on he cant punch through human flash?). As well he would simply walk into a battle and use the force to wipe out hundreds of droids, but he cant. It makes no sense, so its not canon.

But, the fact that Mace was involved in the battle is still canon, as well as the battles outcome. But some specific feats are not.

Needless to say all the CW cartoons will soon be rendered N-Canon, when Lucas does the CG CW show.

when is that coming out anyways.

Not sure, I think the official word is the episodes will start airing sometime in 2007.

Though I'm not 100% positive about that.

i'm gunna DVR every single epsiode.

Originally posted by Escape81
He got his arm cut off,

So did many others. They lived.

Originally posted by Escape81
suffered intense electrocution,

Luke survived a huge amount with little long term damage in ROTJ.

Originally posted by Escape81
and was shoved out a window to plunge half a kilometer to the streets below.

He'd be a pretty damn tough Jedi to survive that.

Mace is a pretty tough Jedi for sure.. Look at Anakin's fall in AOTC. It's close to half a kilometer. Mace could survive anyone of those individually. I call him dead though.

*cough*

That's why I put commas there, instead of periods. The three things combined would be enough to kill Mace.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Actually CW is considered EU.
Seeing as CW leads directly into RotS, and the characters are as they were in CW, I think that is is infact considered canon rather than EU...

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Did you know that the original Novels made in the 90's were for a time considered canon by Lucasfilm? Then Lucas decided to go agaisnt them, and just like that, they arn't anymore.
I didn't, but it wouldn't surprize me, as Lucas has a habit of changing his mind and retconning his story as he sees fit.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
And can you explain why they can't do what they did in the movies?
Who says they can't do what they did? Just because you didn't see them doing certain things, it doesn't mean that they couldn't. The only character who was shown not to be able to do everything they could in the CW was Grievous, but, the CW also established the reason why he could no longer fight as well as he first could. The cartoon medium allowed them to do things without having to worry about things like wirework or CGI character replacements spoiling the look of the film, as it was done in one consistent medium.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
First off, NOTHING is as valid canon as the movies.
My mistake, I should have written second only to the movies. As CW is a visual rather than printed medium, it is a higher level of canon than a novelization, because the audience is being shown what is happening, what the characters can do etc, where in a novel, the reader has to use their imagination to 'fill in the details'.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Second, the CW events are canon, and feats that make sense in terms of the movies are. But things like Mace killing like 500 super-battle droids with the force and his fists alone is not.
It can't be half canon. Either everything that occurs is canon (which you've agreed the events are) or none of it is. The acts are what 'make' the events, so it is all intertwined.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
It goes against everything displayed in the movies, and books etc. that Mace is capable of. In general terms, if it was true, then in Shatterpoint Mace woulda kicked the crap outta Kar vastor, but he lost (yet in the CW cartoons he can punch through durasteel, but somehow later on he cant punch through human flash?). As well he would simply walk into a battle and use the force to wipe out hundreds of droids, but he cant. It makes no sense, so its not canon.

But, the fact that Mace was involved in the battle is still canon, as well as the battles outcome. But some specific feats are not.
AS I said above, the feats and acts are what make the events possible. Who said that Mace can't punch through human flesh? Just because he did not do so with Palpatine, does not mean that he could not do so. Infact, a line from theTPM Visual dictionary may explain the phenomenon:


Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Needless to say all the CW cartoons will soon be rendered N-Canon, when Lucas does the CG CW show.
Lucas has not done it yet, so the validity of CW stands (for now)

is it possible he didn't die and went into hiding like obi wan and yoda?
but then why didnt he get in contact with yoda?
perhaps he became a ghost thing but who knows its another mystery but i think he simply died most simple explenation

hmm.. unless he didnt die. and went in hiding... prolly some EU author will write a novel on how the amazing mace survived the fall only to be surrounded by clones.. without a saber... and pulls a clone was :P:P:P:P:P

Windu's very much alive!

He fell a couple of miles down, ended up in Coruscant's RedLight-district, only to see himself being exciled to Oola's Titty-Twister.
During the Jedi-Purge/DarkTimes he took the identity of an exotic stripper called "Sweet Chocolat Brown".....
At the near end of the Galactic Civil War he resigned from this profession after his mistress accidently got eaten by a Rancor on Tatooine.

It is rumored Windu is still searching his one true love>>>a gold plated lightsabre, lost in the depths where his tragedy all started!

Originally posted by Darth Vious
My mistake, I should have written second only to the movies. As CW is a visual rather than printed medium, it is a higher level of canon than a novelization, because the audience is being shown what is happening, what the characters can do etc, where in a novel, the reader has to use their imagination to 'fill in the details'.

Errmm, no. The CW cartoon and any EU novels are held at the same level of Canon. Sorry. As a matter of fact the novelizations are more descriptive then any of the movies or TV shows are, as they give an EXACT account of what happens as well as supplying a narrative to go along with it, and more often then not the characters thoughts as well. But never the less Books are at the same level of canon as the CW cartoons are.



Actually no, if something in one source goes against what the majority of other sources say a character can do etc. then you take the majority over the one source. Thats how canon works.




If he could punch through flesh then he would have killed Kar Vastor immediately, with one blow. He cant, so he didn't. As a matter of fact he got his ass beat down by Kar Vastor. IF he was indeed capable of the feats he displays in the CW's cartoon he would be capable of punching through durasteel, if he can punch through durasteel then he would EASILY be able to punch through flesh. AND if he could do that he would be as physically strong, or more physically strong then Mechanical Vader, or Grievous. Which is BS. Mace cannot punch through durasteel with his bare hands, not only is it ridiculous, but ALL other sources trump the fact that he can. So he cant.

To add, if Mace could do the kinds of things he can do in the CW cartoon then he should have been able to wipe out almost ALL the drioids in the Geonosis arena SINGLEHANDEDLY, but he didn't. Why? Because he cant.

I think that he is dead but COULD be alive. Mace wasn't seen hitting the floor or dead so noone knows what happened to him.

As for the bit about mace using the force to hurl himself, he may have done so but Palp' lifts him up before he is thrown out of the window which show how powerful the lightning is, though it does seem likely to escape death that he jumps (maybe using the force to sense for a speeder going past, or he just jumped) he may have been thrown out of the window by the power of the lightning.

its stupid for Kit and the other jedi to survive because Palp' would have ordered Anakin to kill them, a seriously injured jedi cant run far in a few minutes.

As for the bit about mace falling onto a speeder, this is the most likely and only way for him to survive so IF he survived then he would have fallen onto a speeder, went into hidding on a planet, dodged years of the Empire proberly searching the planet hes on, ceate a new 'saber, mechanical hand.

The bit about Mace being hit a few inches away from Palp' and seriouslly injuring him is true but Luke was hit by him from about the same distance and for long and it was years later so Palp would be more powerful!

Finally, has anyone ever heard of a plot twist. saying that books say mace is dead is like sayin "Why didn't they say Anakin was going to be evil in TPM?" or "why didn't they say that palpatine was darth sideous in the first book?". Surprize, surprize, ITS A PLOT TWIST!!!!

Doubt his death all you will but I do hope they never think of making him return, even if he "survived". Now Boba's supposed death is half probably, but Mace surviving in such a dramatic event? It kills the significance of that moment, even if RotS was a pretty poor film for drama.

Originally posted by exanda kane
Doubt his death all you will but I do hope they never think of making him return, even if he "survived". Now Boba's supposed death is half probably, but Mace surviving in such a dramatic event? It kills the significance of that moment, even if RotS was a pretty poor film for drama.

good point, he should stay dead, if they do bring him back then it should be the remains of him of on holocrons.

Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
good point, he should stay dead, if they do bring him back then it should be the remains of him of on holocrons.

Yes, he'll probably be the subject of a story like that. Maybe that shows they really don't have alot of material for stories, but I guess some people must like the guy, even if I dont.

mace is a badass, why do you think sam played him!

he should come back as a holocron or ghost if they make any new films or stories.

Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
mace is a badass, why do you think sam played him!

he should come back as a holocron or ghost if they make any new films or stories. Ludicrous.

Originally posted by Lord Saboteur
Ludicrous.

how so?

im sure he made holocrons to teach lesson to other jedi!

Originally posted by Sith Lord Windu
how so?

im sure he made holocrons to teach lesson to other jedi! No sources say he did, and if so were true; why aren't they around? No source material ever states he did make a holocron, so it can be said he didn't. Thanks for playing?

no soures say he didn't make a holocron and did you see him dead or hitting the floor, it leaves it open for a follow-on...game over, PAL!!!!

Windu's death is canonical.

Windu's death is canonical. Windu's death is a fact. Lucas has said so, Jackson has said so, Windu's screams of agony as he fell to his death also said so.

when did samuel say 'i die', i thought he said he wanted to go OUT in some kick-ass way, meaning out of the window. when did lucaas say he was DEAD? so if anyone screams whilst falling then thier dead are they? i didn't think so!

have you ever heard of a plot twist.

I'm pretty sure when he said "take me OUT!" it was gangsta' talk for get killed. This IS Sam Jackson were talking about here.