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"Bush is a liar..no weapons are there!"

Proceed to stick head up ass liberals.

Originally posted by KidRock
"Bush is a liar..no weapons are there!"

Proceed to stick head up ass liberals.
What is this thread telling us?

Did they find WMDs in Iraq?

Or are you acknowledging it was a lie to get involved (no, to start) this war?

Where is the proof of that? How do we know you're just not trying to clear Bushy's name? I never heard anything about chemical weapons



and I watch the Daliy Show every night

Originally posted by KidRock
"Bush is a liar..no weapons are there!"

Proceed to stick head up ass liberals.


Resume

GEORGE W. BUSH 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington , DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE

LAW ENFORCEMENT

I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine , in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

MILITARY

I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam

COLLEGE

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE

I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland , Texas , in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas . The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry, including Enron CEO Ken Lay, I was elected governor of Texas .

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union .

During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida , and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT

I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.

In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, had a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron.

My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution.

More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip- offs in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S . "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families-in-wartime.

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for publi c review. I am a member of the Republican Party.


PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN THE 2006 MIDTERM ELECTIONS. PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW.

http://gallery.brawl-hall.com/data/media66542/7/finger.gif


and...

http://gallery.brawl-hall.com/data/media66542/7/a_bushbeatingsaddam.gif

Hehe, the second one is "lol"

Originally posted by KidRock
"Bush is a liar..no weapons are there!".

I would think, if it were true, that that would make CNN's headlines over .

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

"The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003,"

BULLSHIT. that could have sealed bush's reelection and he hid it for 3 years? believe what you want.

:edit:

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." -dubya

Let's also not overlook that there were not any weapons there.

-AC

Originally posted by PVS
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

"The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003,"

BULLSHIT. that could have sealed bush's reelection and he hid it for 3 years? believe what you want.

:edit:

"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." -dubya

So he's buying a bunch of metal tubes...threatening

I remember the hoo ha not far into the war when every strange package was a WMD, pretty much each of which was subsequently disproved - it has been a long, long time since the media mentioned any kind of discovery at all - the general consensus being because there wasn't actually anything to find, and as a result nothing is suddenly going to materialise now.

Really, I find it funny to think that for some reason Coalition forces went from telling the media about every false alarm that they thought to be potential chemical weapons to suddenly covering it all up to now suddenly revealing it again. The Bush administration really does seem to be getting more schizophrenic as the months pass.

I suspect if weapons had been found the Coalition of the willing would have trumpeted the fact till their throats were war (sorry, I mean raw)... but no, all quite on the Iraqi front (except for the sound of all those civilians killed on a weekly basis by insurgent actions, accidental Coalition actions etc) until a couple of "Republican lawmakers" made this rather unsubstantiated claim.

So, where's the referenced site? Or the legitimate new coverage? Or the point?

KidRock would be well advised to pull his own head out of Bush's ass long enough to be relevent. Or at least to have a point.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
http://gallery.brawl-hall.com/data/media66542/7/finger.gif


and...

http://gallery.brawl-hall.com/data/media66542/7/a_bushbeatingsaddam.gif


And what is this?

Inteligently Designed?

Or how about this?

Intelligently designed?

Or how about a whales hip...wtf hip?...bone?

More evidence of intelligent design

OH!...and chemical weapons.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
http://gallery.brawl-hall.com/data/media66542/7/finger.gif

That's funny! He can't even manage to pick his own nose! Misses every time...Stupid man.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
That's funny! He can't even manage to pick his own nose! Misses every time...Stupid man.

Only during baseball games.

Originally posted by KidRock
"Bush is a liar..no weapons are there!"

Proceed to stick head up ass liberals.

Oh great. There goes most of our evidence of Bush being a complete and utter moron. Oh well, we still have a sizeable amount!

well, a few of the things on the "resume" weren't true. Not counting native americans, William McKinley was the first US president to launch an unprovoked preemptive attack against another nation.

plus you left a few out-

I am the first president to be complicit in an attack on the United States

I am the first president to publicly aknowledge guilt of an impeachable offense

I have more connections to international criminals and terrorists than any other president

I got accepted into the Air National Guard despite scoring in the low 20th percentile of the entrance exam, yet still oppose affirmative action

I am the only president ever elected to have a history of animal sadism and publicly mocking the deaths of people.

My cabinet features the most corrupt elements of the Nixon, Reagan, and Bush cabinets.

My former ambassedor to the United Nations ran death squads in Chile and Guatemala.

My Vice President's slant-drilling operations justified Sadam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait and was thus responsible for the Gulf War.

My defense secretary's old company has been implicated in the manufacture and sale of nuclear reactor parts to enemy nations. Including Pakistan and North Korea.

Originally posted by Bardock42


Did they find WMDs in Iraq?



I think they are US WMD that were hidden there to attack Iran, forgotten by the US, and re-descovered a year later.

They found over 100 canisters and parts from inert chemical and biological weapons which dated back to the mid-80's. If Iraq was smart, they could have used the weapons as evidence to get Reagan's senile wrinkly ass in jail for violating international law, along with Bush's daddy and the Iran contra boys.

they have already been several chemical weapons used by the insurrgents against coalition troops in iraq...granted they were old, low grade weapons and have been few in number but they were there and they were used

thats great...but how was this a threat posed against the u.s.

perhaps it wasnt...but perhaps i could care less about threats to the US

didnt expect you to.

my reason for asking was for my next question:
where are the wmd's which were supposed to be used in an attack
on the u.s......the reason for going to war. of coarse thats not directed
at you, but if you have a good answer please state it.

In my pants mofo

that about the answer you're looking for

took me ages to think of it...hope it's good enough

or how about

we think we know what we knew we know we know but what we dont know is the known knowny known knowns from knew knows and unknown knowns if you know what we know we knew that you didn't know we known...then the uknown knowns would be knew and known

thank you...thank you...here all week...available for weddings and bar mitzvahs

ok........anyone else?

i've got a better idea

how about we discuss why the Clinton Administration made up excuses to not go into Rwanda when nearly a million people were massacred in 3 months (thats a rate the Nazis could only dream of) and even used its influence at the UN to stop other countries from intervening

that'll be a fun discussion

right to clinton. why dont we drag truman from his grave and beat him like a piniata for not advancing past the 38th parallel? or we can focus on current events...you know...the topic

Originally posted by PVS
right to clinton. why dont we drag truman from his grave and beat him like a piniata for not advancing past the 38th parallel? or we can focus on current events...you know...the topic

I hate to point out there doesn't seem to have been a topic.

Originally posted by PVS
right to clinton. why dont we drag truman from his grave and beat him like a piniata for not advancing past the 38th parallel? or we can focus on current events...you know...the topic

well if you're going to beat on republicans for being republican you can hardly pin the blame on me that we have to hark back so far into ye olde days to find the last democrat president and sling some shit right back

ok weapons of mass destruction....have some been found in Iraq?

yes

have some been used against US troops in Iraq?

yes

did we go to war because we said Saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

yes

did the UN threaten Iraq with serious consequences for having weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

yes

did the UN actually get its finger out and do anything about it?

it sent in inspectors

had these inspectors been given the run around by Iraq for 10 years prior to this

yes

Did Iraq finally change its mind about letting inspectors back in after the US threatened to blow the shit out of them?

yes

even then did Iraq produce a deliberately misleading 10,000 page document stating that it didn't actually document the destruction of its WMD's and that we just had to take their word for it...despite the fact the the UN demanded, not only their destruction (which didnt happen entirely because some were found) as well as documentation of their destruction (which they admitted they didn't do)?

yes

were also the removal of the regime and the stopping of the mass genocide (which has been documented and are still being documented and which only 50 or so of the 250 mass graves have been found and those 50 graves have contained over 300,000 bodies) also put forward as reasons for going into Iraq but were considered unacceptable reasons by all sides of the political spectrum and the American people are reasons for getting of their asses and doing something about it?

yes

is the Death toll in Iraq actually far less now than it was under the Saddam regime...its just we here about it more now than we did before?

yes

isnt the war in iraq actually part of the war on terror and its documented that Iraq funded suicide and bombings in Israel and rewarded the families of those suicide bombers?...thus being supporters of terror?

yes

like conversing with yourself?
its interesting to watch...shall we call it masturdebating?

we went to war under the certain knowledge that hussein was developing...developing...DEVELOPING weapons of mass destruction. instead all they found was depleated chemical weapons courtesy of reagan 20+ years ago.
if you can say "same thing" and hold a straight face, i must say i admire your mastery of bullshit.

You are a moron.
Thanks.
The US doesn't give a shit about genocide, Thats provable over and over again, thats not the reason, and its never been a reason why we wen't to war.
Show me proof of any WMD's used against troops.
Find any source to back up anything you are saying.
Oh and the resume thing has been proven to be bullshit, just to be fair in who I'm criticizing..
and about teh artical posted, you only have to read down a bit and you get this snippet...
"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."
Brilliant...
I rest my case...

yeah...but....CLINTON!!!

This is what I was reading on the subject of Iraq's chemical weapons today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060622/pl_afp/usiraqmilitaryweapons_060622191218

Basically those weapons are outdated.

"They" found chemical weapons in Iraq??

Strange that no european has heard a word about that...

Originally posted by jaden101
is the Death toll in Iraq actually far less now than it was under the Saddam regime...its just we here about it more now than we did before?

yes

Could you back that statement up with some numbers please?



Originally posted by jaden101
isnt the war in iraq actually part of the war on terror and its documented that Iraq funded suicide and bombings in Israel and rewarded the families of those suicide bombers?...thus being supporters of terror?

That's quite a stretch. If Bush was serious about the war on terror he would have finished the job in Afghanistan rather than head to Iraq. He would have also gone after other governments that have far stronger ties to terrorist groups than Iraq.

If Bush was serious about the WMD issue, then he would be making a b-line striaght to Korea.

These were all convenient excuses.

Well, if we had to compare the civilian deaths under Saddam under his rule all over the time he spent in power and compare it with the civilian deaths under the US occupation (2003), I think the latter outnumbers.

So... less civilians have died in three years than during all of Saddam Husseins regime? Is that supposed to be good news????
And what does that have to do with KIDROCKS alleged rumour that "they" (who, aliens?) found chemical weapons in Iraq? After three years?

Am I the only one who'll not buy that after so long and who has a small voice going "Okay, chemical weapons... who put them there"?

hmm

yes i can

most accurate estimates of deaths since the 2002 war began can be found here

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

information on iraqi mass graves can be found here

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html

here

http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politics/0000374.php




perhaps he should have...but you cant be for 1 war and against another...it makes you look hypocritical doesn't it?...




strange that several reports have been on the BBC about chemical weapons being used as IED's against coalition troops



from here

http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2004_06/ChemicalMunition.asp

that covers 2 of the 550 sarin shells that are unaccounted for





mastery of bullshit eh?...strangely enough all of these things are highly documented and publicised in the lead up to the war








that would be the weapons they first claimed they didnt have because they were all destroyed...then refused to let the inspectors see they were destroyed...then said they were destroyed but had no proof of it...and then turned out not to be destroyed

shall we also go back to the argument about intelligence and remind ourselves that all the main world powers agreed on was true...

and not forget the fact that intelligence was extremely difficult to get because Saddam tracked down and killed many western agents of over the 10 years between the Gulf wars

did we also completely forget about one of Saddams own regime members who testified that WMD's were taken across the border into Syria before the war began?

i suggest you read his book...its rather good

http://www.gracestreet.co.uk/Details.asp?ProductID=80613

and then of course it brings us to the report issued to days ago that stated that over 500 WMD's which were supposed to have been destroyed had been found since 2003 and more were expected to be found

and strangely enough i can write an entire post with links to facts and not once have the childish need to call someone a moron or any other petty insult that many of you seem to need to back up your arguments

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
This is what I was reading on the subject of Iraq's chemical weapons today:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060622/pl_afp/usiraqmilitaryweapons_060622191218

Basically those weapons are outdated.

reality check...they were considered lower hazard

would you like to check out a lower hazard version of Sarin under the hope that it might just tickle a bit and not actually melt your lungs out of your mouth?

thought not

and these depleted chemicals were still enough to injure troops who they were used on as an IED

not to mention that IRAQ SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEM ANYWAY

38475 42889


Originally posted by jaden101
most accurate estimates of deaths since the 2002 war began can be found here

Multiply the deaths the american occupation have caused in the last few years by the proportionate time of Saddam's regime and see what you get. Stats and numbers are a tricky thing.


Originally posted by jaden101
.but you cant be for 1 war and against another

Yes, in fact you can.

Originally posted by jaden101
it makes you look hypocritical doesn't it?...

No, not at all, and you sound rather silly for trying to make that point.

"We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves," said British Prime Minister Tony Blair on November 20 in London. The United Nations, the U.S. State Department, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch (HRW) all estimate that Saddam Hussein's regime murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people. "Human Rights Watch estimates that as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been 'disappeared' by the Iraqi government over the past two decades," said the group in a statement in May. "Many of these 'disappeared' are those whose remains are now being unearthed in mass graves all over Iraq."

so its a highball figure, but i'll take it. 290,000 over 20 years.

and then just to be nice, i'll submit the lowball figure for the iraqi
body count: 38475
(the first death on record being jan 1, 2003.)

so, since that number is based from aproximately 3 and a half years ago, that would mean that the same rate of iraqi deaths, over 20 years, would be roughly 215,000 people.

290,000 to 215,000

so yes, saddam had the slightly higher death average...but not by much

:edit:
if figured by the maximum iraqi deathcount, then aprox 235,000

Originally posted by PVS


so yes, saddam had the slightly higher death average...but not by much



Hence me stressing that Saddam was in charge for so many years and US for a fraction of it.

Originally posted by GCG
Hence me stressing that Saddam was in charge for so many years and US for a fraction of it.

thats irrelevant. all you can do is quote an average. things may be settled in a few years, or it could turn to a catastrophy taking hundreds of thousands. all we can do is quote an average, of 3 and a half years.
im not saying you're wrong, but you're not right either. we dont know.

Right; only time will tell. Until then i'm off my box.

yes lets do that shall we


42889/3 years to get a yearly amount

=14296.333 per year since the occupation began

x by 10 years =142963 ish

lets do the one for the iraq graves

300,000/53 graves examined = 5660.37

gives us an average of bodies per grave...multiply tha by 270 which is the number of graves found

1,528,301 in 10 years which is 152,800 per year so in 3 years that would be 459,400 which is 10 times that of the coalition tolls



question...is south korea the most viable option

they've never funded terrorism...never used WMD or their neighbours

infact the US biggest gripe about them is the fact that they tested some long range missles which arent for WMD and its recognised that their longest range missles are 1300km

and that the Taepo Dong 2 missle is being developed

actually if we're doing solely on the basis of terrorism then why doesn't the US bomb itself seeing as it help fund the IRA campaigns in the UK for 30+ years...a campaign which took the lives of over 1800 people including a member of the British Royal Family

Originally posted by jaden101


x by 10 years =142963 ish

Originally posted by PVS
"Human Rights Watch estimates that as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been 'disappeared' by the Iraqi government over the past two decades,"

thats 20 years buddy. now redo your math

Originally posted by PVS
thats irrelevant. all you can do is quote an average. things may be settled in a few years, or it could turn to a catastrophy taking hundreds of thousands. all we can do is quote an average, of 3 and a half years.
im not saying you're wrong, but you're not right either. we dont know.

yes this is true we dont know what will happen in the next however many years

it could get better or it could get worse

it certainly appears to be worse now to the west because it gets reported and at least we have access to reasonably accurate if somewhat biased (both ways depending on your source) facts

Originally posted by PVS
thats 20 years buddy. now redo your math

oops my mistake

divide my previous answer by half then

i was always rubbish with numbers

by your numbers the u.s. comes to 285926, which is about 4000 short of tying.
but lets be real. we all know damn well that the high figure probably amounts to not even half the actual death toll.

Originally posted by jaden101
reality check...they were considered lower hazard

would you like to check out a lower hazard version of Sarin under the hope that it might just tickle a bit and not actually melt your lungs out of your mouth?

thought not

and these depleted chemicals were still enough to injure troops who they were used on as an IED

not to mention that IRAQ SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEM ANYWAY

A depleted chemical agent used in battle is NOT a weapon of MASS DESTRUCTION. A weapon of mass destruction is NOT a weapon used in guerilla warfare. To be a weapono of mass destruction it has to kill thousands of people in a single attack. NOTHING Iraq has even comes close to mass destructioins.

For ****s sake, for every one thousand American troops the Iraqis kill, we kill TEN thousand.

Originally posted by PVS
by your numbers the u.s. comes to 285926, which is about 4000 short of tying.
but lets be real. we all know damn well that the high figure probably amounts to not even half the actual death toll.

you mean from the current civillian casualties?

if so then yes there always going to be problems cause its always ongoing

many of the killings are probably never discovered

but the site i posted is using every source it can to be accurate and have gone as far as listing every incident and the death tolls from them

it also takes into consideration killings by all sides in the war

its a hell of a long list

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/bodycount_all.php?ts=1151022238

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
A depleted chemical agent used in battle is NOT a weapon of MASS DESTRUCTION. A weapon of mass destruction is NOT a weapon used in guerilla warfare. To be a weapono of mass destruction it has to kill thousands of people in a single attack. NOTHING Iraq has even comes close to mass destructioins.

For ****s sake, for every one thousand American troops the Iraqis kill, we kill TEN thousand.

see now you're just making things up...

and remember...iraq said they had destroyed those weapons...quite clearly given that they were found then they didnt destroy them did they?

whats to debate?...iraq said they didnt have them...they did
regardless of the state they were in

Originally posted by jaden101


whats to debate?...iraq said they didnt have them...they did
regardless of the state they were in

they had depleted munitions barely suitable for guerrilla warfare.
that is not a weapon of mass destruction. that is not what anyone went to war for. we all knew he had those munitions because they have a u.s. frikin price tag on them.

Originally posted by PVS
they had depleted munitions barely suitable for guerrilla warfare.
that is not a weapon of mass destruction. that is not what anyone went to war for. we all knew he had those munitions because they have a u.s. frikin price tag on them.

Mustard gas over ten years will become a sticky putty, unusable for much other than a sort of crude mace on one or two people.

Sarin however, is still very deadly when used on people, and 500 canisters of it that Saddam said was gone means SOMETHING on the grand scale.


This is the tip of the iceberg.

Another 3 or 4 years, and Bush will be vindicated.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
\
This is the tip of the iceberg.

Another 3 or 4 years, and Bush will be vindicated.

keep telling yourself that.
stay the course

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Or how about this?

Intelligently designed? Accidents happen. A lot of the pictures you've posted look like byproducts of Human Stupidity.

calling this finding weapons is like saying you found a dog based on a turd in your backyard.

this just in:

http://www.hongfire.com/cg/data/7/medium/mass.jpg

Honestly, whoever founded Weekly World News and all its writers should just be shot.

And I wonder how much they had to pay Universal to put that Jurassic Park raptor on the front page.

Originally posted by Deano
Resume

GEORGE W. BUSH 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington , DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE

LAW ENFORCEMENT

I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine , in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

MILITARY

I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam

COLLEGE

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE

I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland , Texas , in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas . The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry, including Enron CEO Ken Lay, I was elected governor of Texas .

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union .

During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida , and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT

I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.

In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, had a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron.

My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution.

More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip- offs in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S . "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families-in-wartime.

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for publi c review. I am a member of the Republican Party.


PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN THE 2006 MIDTERM ELECTIONS. PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW.


looking at all this, bush isnt that bad of a guy, i sorta got respect for him now.

Originally posted by NineCoronas
Accidents happen. A lot of the pictures you've posted look like byproducts of Human Stupidity.

Human stupidity takes a back seat to divine intervention.

Originally posted by jaden101
ok weapons of mass destruction....have some been found in Iraq?

Still no real proof of this, and the things that might really qualify as WMD are few, and decades old. The whole fear of Saddams' mighty WMD goes down a notch when they turn out to be few dozen 30 year old canisters in a degraded state buried in the dessert. And I look into a lot of poltics - the war was not just based on Saddam having weapons, but actually being in the process of developing more, and being an actual chemical/biological threat to the US.



Who used them against US troops in Gulf War mark II? If my historical understanding is correct (and it usually is) the culprits are believed to have been insurgents and foreign fighters, and the cases your are referring to there is reasonable doubt that the weapons are Iraqi in origin, and even if they Iraqi in origin they serve only to reinforced how nonthreatening Iraq's WMD stockpile truly was. I mean, a couple of attacks with really old chemical weapons that didn't really do much? Yep, I can see the threat Iraq posed to the free world with its WMD.



Does anyone actually know why we went to war at all? The definition has changed so much it's not funny - WMD (Based on faulty intelligence), terrorist links (a lie, since Iraq was not on good terms with Bin Laden), promoting democracy (not originally the reason, but popular these days), removing Saddam (apparently not the original reason, but promoted these days)



Yes, but not a unilateral invasion that goes against the tenants of international law.



Heaven forbid that an international organisation err on the side of caution and desire actual evidence before it promotes a war that will be devastating on the nation in question and its people.



A surprise? Not really. And admission of guilt? Not really. Similar to other nations such as India, Pakistan, Iran, Korea, China and so forth? Yes.



To a degree - but funnily enough it didn't actually stop the Coalition attacking when the inspectors continued to find nothing.




No. I would urge to to research the statistical evidence collected by UN bodies, NGOs etc. They reveal that the death toll during the war and the following insurgent activities keep the average in a similar range to the death toll during Saddams' more aggressive years - the death of civilians, government workers, police, army personnel etc isn't much lower now then when Saddam was in power.



So. The US is fighting every bodies terrorists now? If this is the case why didn't they, oh I don't know, FINISH THE JOB in Afghanistan? Why not go into Palestine and actually go after the terrorists instead of a very shaky link to funding and Iraq? Why aren't the US going after all the other terrorist groups out there? And the nations that funded them? Why aren't they charging those Americans who funded anti-Communist groups in South America that cost so many Innocent lives?

And am I the only one who thinks its less then impressive? I hardly call it a fearsome stock pile when a couple of dozen really old, poor quality munitions are dug up, that could easily have been legitimately missed during the destruction of an actual stock pile. How exactly where they going to be used on US soil when they are almost useless? Its like the police arrested a guy with a single cannibals plant and the DA claiming they have crushed a major drug racket.

good post imperial

atually it was US interests...given that everyone knew Saddam never had the missle technology to hit the US it was widely accepted that it meant US bases in the middle east and Europe

and of you dont consider Sarin gas as a weapon of mass destruction thats a different matter....and once again dont forget that he claimed these weapons had been destroyed which was yet another defiance of the UN




and it changes even more when evidence points to proof of the reasons and the critics change the reason

"we went to war for WMD's and there were none"

WMD's show up and it changes to

"we went to war for NEWER WMD's"

correct?



yeah applying 13 different resolutions and standing by while all of them are flaunted over the course of 10 years and actively participating fraud in the oil for food programme which cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's while Saddam built 42 presidential palaces. not to mention allowing the deaths of the aforementioned Shia and Kurds who were killed and put into mass graves



that would be because even after that...even in the last inspections...and Hans Blix said it himself...they were still, while being co-operative in some areas, were deliberately misleading and lying and preventing the inspectors from doing their job...which was Iraq flaunting yet another UN resolution




please post it, i'd like to read that




is that another person against invading one country but for invading another?




no...that would be the aformentioned Rwanda...Congo...Uganda...Sierra Leone...Darfur...

Originally posted by PVS
this just in:

http://www.hongfire.com/cg/data/7/medium/mass.jpg

Bush knew about it? Hardly surprising considering the other dinosaurs in his administration: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bolton...

Ahhh-hooooohaaaaaaa!

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Bush knew about it? Hardly surprising considering the other dinosaurs in his administration: Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bolton...

Ahhh-hooooohaaaaaaa!

when questioned on it, Bush replied

"they were put there to test our faith"

haha...stupid f*cking dinosaurs! They were intelligently designed, you know...

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
haha...stupid f*cking dinosaurs! They were intelligently designed, you know...

No, they were put on earth to test our faith...hmm..thinking about it that would be intelligent design...well....design at least.

If dinosaurs were invented by Jesus' Dad, why did he give so many of them stupid little arms so they couldn't eat fruit or peel a banana? Doesn't make sense, does it?

Originally posted by jaden101
atually it was US interests...given that everyone knew Saddam never had the missle technology to hit the US it was widely accepted that it meant US bases in the middle east and Europe

and of you dont consider Sarin gas as a weapon of mass destruction thats a different matter....and once again dont forget that he claimed these weapons had been destroyed which was yet another defiance of the UN

There seems to be a practical and logical problem with the whole thing. Does a man's hunting rifle equal an arsenal? No. All evidence still shows that the Iraqi regime was not in the process of manufacturing WMD, and hadn't been for anywhere from 5 years+. We know Saddam had stockpiles once. No denigning. However the war was based on him still having them and adding to them. What has happened in the years since "mission accomplished" with experts scouring the nation looking for them? They find a mere hand full of outdated, degraded weapons and materials.

Which, in my view, look like things that quite easily have fallen through the gaps, been lost, gone astray from corruption etc. All this seems to be proven is that he had stock piles at one point, the majority of which are gone, and what little remains were no longer a part of the Iraqi military structure.

As my example above, like the DA saying "we have uncovered a major drug ring" because of some guy with a single plant. This kind of argument seems so desperate - "See, he did have them. It doesn't matter they are really old and looked like they had been dumped years ago, it is vindication Iraq was a real threat to the world with it's WMDs. What few, really old degraded ones they had."



If you say so. The fact remains that the changes were made by the Administration that did this. They went to the US showing pics of Saddams' chemical labs, reports of him trying to obtain nuclear material etc. That all proved false and they changed the reason. Terrorist links. Democracy, regime change. And suddenly because some old munitions are found pro war advocates change it back to weapons, even though these munitions fail to prove any of the pro-war claims like Iraq was maintaining and expanding its arsenal of WMD's. once again all it proves is what we already new - he had them once, though they also show that far from maintaining them and making more most were destroyed except for a handful which are basically useless.

So yes, that was one of the Coalitions selling point - not just that Iraq had WMDs - but it was making new ones. More potent ones. Ones that could threaten the US, end up in the hands of terrorists.



Drifting off topic there. No body denies he did bad things. What does stand is that the UN never once found sufficient proof that Saddam was maintaining or expanding WMD stockpiles which is what this is all about.



Yet none of this was proof. And even if they hadn't played foolish games and let the inspectors have free reign, tell me, what would have been found? Nothing. Remember that it has taken the US a couple of years of painstaking searching to find a hand full of severely degraded and effectively useless materials dumped - materials which once again prove that not only had the Iraqis not been maintaining stockpiles, they also hadn't been expanding. As the resolutions demanded. So even if Hans and co had found them, it seem highly unlikely it would have led to UN backing or war. In fact I expect it would have but a major, major hole in the US case for war.



Actually I believe it is people with your views that are being hypocritical. You say the invasion was a part of the war on terror - which is dodgy at best. If it were true there are at least 100 more targets that would have a greater effect, starting with finishing the job in Afghanistan.

Indeed the claim is odd. Very odd. Iraq was invaded as part of the war on terror - we now no it's not because of WMD. Not because of links to Bin Laden. Not because it could harm the US. The most absurd claim - funding terrorists bombings in Israel. No actual proof of this. Yet there is actual proof as to where many of Bin Ladens funds come from, a place with a bad human rights track record. But no invasion of Saudi Arabia.

There are many nations that shelter and are breeding grounds for terrorists (Jordan, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc) but no invasions there. North Korea is quite proud of it WMD program.

Am I saying any of them should be invaded? No. What I am saying is that it's the hight of folly to claim Iraq somehow was a king pin or terrorist nations. In fact, when compared to many others it barely even registers. Giving money to HAMAS suicide bombers. A vile thing, but has it actually affected HAMAS? No, bombing continue. But apparently you say it was a wise move in the War on Terror. Why exactly? How did taking out Iraq affect terror?

OMG Iraq was defying the UN!!11

Like the US hasn't done the same on numerous occasions.

Calling those old decrepid canisters of sarin "weapons of mass destruction" is like calling a hand grenade an atomic bomb. Can it do damage? yea. is it a weapon of mass destruction? no. not in the least.

no it wasnt simply based on that...i remember watching all the reasons being given live on television in the UK parliment by Tony Blair

just because you choose to focus on one and ignore the others as not legitimate reasons seems to be simply a political angle rather than basing it on fact

and yes i do remember Colin Powells speech to the UN...lets not forget that most other nations agreed that the intelligence was accurate at that time




there is a vast difference between going against the general consenus of the UN and defying UN resolutions...and before you bring up Israels defiance of the resolutions imposed against them...dont forget that they are done so under duress from attacks by palestinian terrorist groups whereas Iraq defied their resolutions simply because they thought they could get away with it



no they weren't...see above



3 years of searching in a country where the civilians who deal with searching for the weapons are under constant threat of attack and are looking for the equivalent of 2 road fuel tankers of chemicals in a country the size of France




well there hasn't been any other attacks in the US...you could say that Iraq may have been responsible for keeping the terrorists off US soil



yet no-one seemed to want to do anything about it...particularly the US when it is a far more powerful moral argument than any issue of WMD's, old or new, could ever be



no its like calling an old atomic bomb an atomic bomb...and its like calling 500 old atomic bombs 500 atomic bombs

not to mention that IRAQ SAID THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEM...

Originally posted by jaden101
no it wasnt simply based on that...i remember watching all the reasons being given live on television in the UK parliment by Tony Blair

just because you choose to focus on one and ignore the others as not legitimate reasons seems to be simply a political angle rather than basing it on fact

and yes i do remember Colin Powells speech to the UN...lets not forget that most other nations agreed that the intelligence was accurate at that time

And just because many nations believed them doesn't make it real. Nor did it make the majority of them support military action.

And I remember all those reasons, and I also recognise that each nation approached it in a different manner, and tailored it to be palatable to the voters - the fact remained however that one of the primary selling points, the fear factor was the claims regarding the WMDs, and the Iraqi WMD programs - which as you keep saying in regards to the UN and the "flouting" of resolutions.



Ultimately law reveals that the devil is in the detail. Iraq, despite the actions in regards to propaganda and inspectors, never actually crossed the line and broke any of them. Yes they defied them, but that is not in itself a crime. And Ultimately the law, international or otherwise, is still the law (the main difference being with international law one obeys because one feels they should, since there aren't any actual police.)



Depends what nation you live in I guess. The media shows a massive shift in the the way the war has been portrayed. Even if other reasons where mentioned in passing when the began (and just before) it was mostly being portrayed by the Governments concerned as defensive as Saddam had WMD's, and was a threat to the free world. These did not turn up in Iraq and speeches and press releases stopped referring to them (Bush joking as he looks under a table "No WMDs there" and it went to democracy. Terrorism. Now that these things haven't gone well speeches talk about bringing Saddam to justice. The justifications HAVE changed. Those discarded early on replace those that are no longer working.



One wonders how the inspectors would have fared then. Seems likely they could have been let inspect their hearts out and they wouldn't have found these "stockpiles."



Homer: "There's not a single bear in sight; the 'Bear Patrol' is working like a charm"
Lisa: "That's specious reasoning"
Homer: "Thanks, honey"
Lisa: "According to your logic," she says, picking up a stone from their lawn, "this rock keeps tigers away"
Homer: "Hmmm. How does it work?"
Lisa: "It doesn't."
Homer: "How so?"
Lisa: "It's just a rock. But I don't see a tiger, anywhere."

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Statistics suggests, in terms of past attacks and so forth, that the US is in no more danger, nor is it any safer, from terrorist attacks now then it was before the Iraq invasion.

Though I guess it is terribly noble of the Iraqi civilians. You say Saddam deserves to pay for his crimes (which he does) but then say Iraq may be responsible for keeping terrorists away - at the costs and many, many thousands of people killed by the terrorists who exist where before there was none. Maybe they will build a statue to them (the civilians) sometime in the future.



After WWI Germany was required, by treaty to dismantle certain large parts of its military. They made a show of doing it, but had secretly kept and built up portions of it. Maintained them. And then unlashed them. Now, the old WWI German warships sitting at the bottom of the ocean didn't matter - because they were at the bottom of the ocean. All they showed was that German once had a navy. What did matter was the navy ships they kept hidden,. maintained and ready for war.

The devil, they say, is in the detail. If Russians go out for a picnic and find a Cold War era nuke in a poor state hidden in a barn where it was forgotten, lost when the USSR broke up it is not the same as the nukes in their actual arsenals. Degraded, old munitions have been found - this is not the same as finding a stockpile of shiny, ready to deploy WMD pointed at Coalition forces. The Iraqis said they didn't have them - and for all intents and purposes they didn't anymore. And I am not surprised a few turn up. I would be surprised if they didn't. Corrupt nations with poor infrastructure have a way of leaving bits and pieces around.

so genocide isnt against international law

a: it was put forward as 1 of the reasons to oust the regime

b: there were several UN resolutions demanding that Iraq release both its own political prisoners and not forgetting the 10.000 kuwaiti's that to this day still have never been found

c: it is against international law





the people who disregarded them in the first place we political opposition...making them seem morally bankrupt if they were against stopping a genocidal dictator on the basis that killing hundreds of thousands of his own people wasn't a good enough idea to stop him





the people who inspected the weapons found deduced them to be "lower hazard" so your analogy is completely irrelevant





thanks for this and the other links...i'll get around to reading them soon

And again, this news comes from a senator so twisted and retarded that he has a sexual term named after him and actually brought a dead fetus home and named it, and took pictures of it with his kids and family. I mean, what can be more ****ed up than introducing little kids to their stillborn brother?

Santorum-v.

The mixture of semen, lubrication, and feces that is often the result of unprotected, dirty anal sex.

Originally posted by jaden101
so genocide isnt against international law

a: it was put forward as 1 of the reasons to oust the regime

b: there were several UN resolutions demanding that Iraq release both its own political prisoners and not forgetting the 10.000 kuwaiti's that to this day still have never been found

c: it is against international law

It is most certainly against international law, but it was not these resolutions that the Coalition pursued with such intensity in the lead up. It was about the WMDs. That was what was in the media. That was what they lectured the Security council on. And it was on the question of WMDs that Iraq, while pigheaded, didn't exactly break the resolution.



Now this goes into politics, and of course such questions lead to others - where did he aquire his chemical weapons that he used against the Kurds? How did he get to power (by opposing Iranian and communist forces the US didn't want in), why didn't anyone actually stop him when he was actually doing these things?

But that isn't the question here, as you yourself pointed out earlier such a cause was not politically popular, and thus was not the one trumpeted. And besides it is bloody (literally) ham fisted. He killed many innocent people during his reign. It is then becomes oxymoron to say it is helping his people when they are suffering similar hardships now - they continue to die, only now it's so much more random. They are still malnourished, the educated are still getting out causing a massive brain drain. We ousted a dictator who had done terrible things in the past and in the process made it almost as dangerous for your average Iraqi.

Now I don't see how the political opposition are to blame here. Bush, Blair etc chose their stance. Chose what would get the people on their side. Their opponents didn't right their speeches. Didn't come up with dodgy intelligence. They did whoever point out that they were wrong when they were in fact proven to be wrong.




Your missing the point of it. This is what you and others seem to be implying - that these "lower hazard" chemical weapons are somehow evidence of Iraqi duplicity, their lies and proof of the Coalitions first claims - in essence the hidden forces I refereed to. However in reality there is no evidence that they were still considered a part of the Iraqi arsenal. No evidence that they could have been used. No evidence that the Iraqi military even knew of them at the time - they are few number, poor in quality and degraded - the kind of thing that suggests that they had been forgotten about, lost. And I mean really - if Iraq saw fit to destroy 99% of the arsenal years ago, and cease building new WMDss why on earth keep a few around and lot them rot in some out of the way place. What could possibly be achieved by this?

Maybe another WWII example. Following the routing and subsequent victory over the German military by Allied forces, weapons and munitions continued to turn up over the years from where they had been hidden or let fall during the retreats. Now, 10 years on half a dozen V2 rockets are discovered in a poor state buried out 40 miles from Berlin. Germany of course is not allowed such things, being required to destroy or hand over all weapons at the end of the war.

These rockets were not evidence of the Germans breaking the rules, nor could any of the powers have cried foul, that the Germans still had weapons they weren't allowed. Why? Because they didn't actually have them any more, they just happened to be there. It wasn't a plot, simply the discovery of debris from another time.

I have no reason to stick up for the the Iraqi regime. However I can't sugar coat facts to make them fit a political stance - this is not evidence of the things the Coalition claimed before the war. And they know it, hence the fact they aren't even going around saying "hey, we found those weapons" - because if anything this shows they were wrong - Saddam wasn't stockpiling, wasn't developing.

This whole argument is incredibly irrevelant. It doesn't matter why we went there anymore, the fact is we ARE there, Now what are we going to do about it? How are we going to get out of there? How are we going to NOT make it the quagmire that it is rapidly becoming.

Also, like I said before, don't delude yourself, if America cared at all bout genocide and the well being of mankind, we would be all up in Africa, yet we are not.

africa didnt steal our oil

Well there's the kicker, eh?

Originally posted by PVS
africa didnt steal our oil

tell that to Nigeria who are a repugnant african country with a huge amount of oil

actually the UN recognises that they broke all 16 resolutions concerning solely the WMD's

as for the human rights issues...i cant comment on what was focused on the in the US but in the UK i remember hearing our government talk about it several times although the press did focus more on the WMD issue



if you're refering in particular to halabjah i also thought that but i believe it was proven that the Iranian were actually responsible for it





and no evidence that they didn't so i guess we are both guilty of conjecture in regards to this...but again i point you to Georges Sada's book about the issue of the WMD's...one of Saddams top military advisors




yet you can ignore facts in order to make them fit your own political view

Ok, so... NO WMD have been found in Iraq. Period. Anyone claiming otherwise has to get me a link to a site that says that WMD has been found in Iraq. Old rusty barrels possibly once containing something 15 years ago do not count!

2515 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq by now...
By October 2004 100,000 Iraqi civilians had been killed
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6596
What the current number is... I don't know...

Originally posted by The Omega
Ok, so... NO WMD have been found in Iraq. Period. Anyone claiming otherwise has to get me a link to a site that says that WMD has been found in Iraq. Old rusty barrels possibly once containing something 15 years ago do not count!

2515 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq by now...
By October 2004 100,000 Iraqi civilians had been killed
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6596
What the current number is... I don't know...

the lancet survey is extremely flawed...it surveys 1000 houses out of a population of over 40,000,000 people...

the iraq body count has relied on counted victims from every reported incident from the media, local hospitals and foregin aid workers from across the country and is far more likely to e accurate



strange way to put it given that they were actual artillery shells still containing Sarin gas

Originally posted by Deano
Resume

GEORGE W. BUSH 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington , DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE

LAW ENFORCEMENT

I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine , in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

MILITARY

I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam

COLLEGE

I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE

I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland , Texas , in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas . The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry, including Enron CEO Ken Lay, I was elected governor of Texas .

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union .

During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America

I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money.

I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida , and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT

I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week.

I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury.

I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history.

I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market.

In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, had a Chevron oil tanker named after her.

I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations.

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron.

My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution.

More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip- offs in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed.

I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history.

I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history.

I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission.

I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S . "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention.

I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election).

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history.

I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind.

I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families-in-wartime.

In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends.

I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view.

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for publi c review. I am a member of the Republican Party.


PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN THE 2006 MIDTERM ELECTIONS. PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW. wow, what an idiot the only people who are dumber than bush are bush lovers

and here's a little graph to show people something bad.

http://tvnewslies.org/bushbudget.gif

Bush has the record of the biggest decrease, the lowest budget, the quickest rate and I bet he thinks that's good.

It's not the United States responsibility to remove dictators from their power. It's the responsibility of the people being oppressed. America earned it's freedom from tyranny, and so should every other country with citizens who feel they are being treated like shit.

America needs to learn to keep it's nose in it's own business and the defense of itself and it's allies. Did Iran invade or attack the US or it's allies? No. Did they murder their own people? Yea...so? This "promoting democracy" is not a reason to invade another country, in fact, it's hypocritical. Invasion is the act of an Empire, which we are not. If the Iraqis wanted to be liberated, they'd liberate themselves. Civil war and revolution is part of any country's development.

i dont know what you know about the aftermath of the 1st Gulf war but there was a shi'ite upsrising that tried to oust saddam husseins regime and begged for help from the US and its allies...the American public didnt want it and left it open for Saddam to ruthlessly crush the uprising and triggering the ethnic cleansing mentioned previously in the thread

if america doesnt want the responsibility of other nations affairs then it should stop using its economic power to bully every country on the planet including its allies

i dont see what your point about Iran is in relation to Iraq because the answer to both, did Iraq attack and invades its neighbours and Allies of the US and did they kill their own people is yes



civil war and revolution is virtually impossible in countries where the disparity of power between the oppressed and the oppressor is insurmountable as it was in Iraq



so once again what about stopping genocide and invasion of other countries...is it worth ending the threat of that for good?