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Kismet Superman

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bigbang02gu.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bigbang7ku.jpg

bump

That's not Kismet Superman. That's sun dipped Superman. In any case it's draw. Both are too powerful to give a firm winner.

I thought that was kismet superman, after he merged with kismet.

Originally posted by Jesse7
I thought that was kismet superman, after he merged with kismet.

This is the Superman you were looking for.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/avalonofthewind/kistmetsupes.jpg

How many times is this argument going to be here? No version of Superman will ever beat even a normal powered Galactus much less a fully powered one.

the mans got a point.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
How many times is this argument going to be here? No version of Superman will ever beat even a normal powered Galactus much less a fully powered one.

Darth Erebus FTW.

Superman will ALWAYS lose to Galactus.

NO version of him stands the slightest of chances.

Originally posted by Jesse7
Kismet Superman

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bigbang02gu.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bigbang7ku.jpg

Where did the other Big Bang come from?

I see he travels back to the first Bang, but the other Bang where'd that come from?

The second bang is Imperiex.
Basically both big bangs are infinite forces capable of creating a universe, so Superman had them combined for to nullify any changes in history..

And yes, this version of Superman can beat Galactus.

I hate when people comment without knowing what the hell they are talking about. Seems more and more common in this forum.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind

And yes, this version of Superman can beat Galactus.




I hate when people comment without knowing what the hell they are talking about.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind



And yes, this version of Superman can beat Galactus.

.


Only in a fanboy's mind. This has been argued before, and before, and before......................................................

dude supes can beat everyone in your mind.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind


And yes, this version of Superman can beat Galactus.


only in a fanboys wet dream.

Originally posted by Soljer


I hate when people comment without knowing what the hell they are talking about.

So Superman combined with a version of DC's Eternity has no chance?

Just because Kismet is 'said' to be DC's Eternity , doesn't necessarily mean he is.

Thor is Marvels 'Superman' yet I don't see him blasting people with Heat Vision....

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Only in a fanboy's mind. This has been argued before, and before, and before......................................................

In a fanboys mind, galactus is unbeatable...despite his MANY loses.

Originally posted by grey fox
Just because Kismet is 'said' to be DC's Eternity , doesn't necessarily mean he is.

Thor is Marvels 'Superman' yet I don't see him blasting people with Heat Vision....

Read up more on her. Fools here are acting like I said standard Supes punches Big G in the face and wins...

Thor is Marvels version of ...Thor. Outside of the red cape, he's no Superman.

Originally posted by bigbran
dude supes can beat everyone in your mind.

Haven't you been banned before? Nuff said. Your opinion doesn't count.

how would you know
and what does that have to do with annything?

So Kismet is a manifestation of the force of DC universe then. Is she able to use the presence?

Originally posted by Rols
So Kismet is a manifestation of the force of DC universe then. Is she able to use the presence?

Use what presence? You mean call on god?

She can alter the fabric of reality, and if she dies, reality dies.
Sounds like a certain character people are rooting for...hmm...

Please guys. Galactus is a loser. jockey

in a dc fanboys opinion

Vally, we used to be cool..........But with that statement....And Kismet merged Superman or Sundipped, nothing was seen that implies Galactus would even take note.

Or anyone who's actually paying attention. Galactus has been Marvel's Jobberseid for a long time now. Annihilation: SS #3 was a perfect highlight of that. jockey

Originally posted by UniOmni
Vally, we used to be cool..........But with that statement....And Kismet merged Superman or Sundipped, nothing was seen that implies Galactus would even take note.
I'm not fully serious, hence the hat smiley, but Galactus gets generally too much credit. I don't see why he's let off the hook for jobbing when other characters aren't. Full power Galactus is just a hypothetical power level we haven't even seen.

Originally posted by Validus
Please guys. Galactus is a loser. jockey

They've been hovering on Galactus and pals all week looking for a win off somebody.


I think it's time for me to stop bothering posting scans. Even when you convince people of something in one thread, they default back to their belief in the next.

Props to Six_Winged and Mr. Master who bothered to ask questions and check facts over the last few days.

Originally posted by Validus
I'm not fully serious, hence the hat smiley, but Galactus gets generally too much credit. I don't see why he's let off the hook for jobbing when other characters aren't. Full power Galactus is just a hypothetical power level we haven't even seen.

Because Galactus was created first

Originally posted by UniOmni
Vally, we used to be cool..........But with that statement....And Kismet merged Superman or Sundipped, nothing was seen that implies Galactus would even take note.

Theorectical power vs Theoretical power on both ends.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
They've been hovering on Galactus and pals all week looking for a win off somebody.


I think it's time for me to stop bothering posting scans. Even when you convince people of something in one thread, they default back to their belief in the next.

Props to Six_Winged and Mr. Master who bothered to ask questions and check facts over the last few days.

Hey I checked Kismet on wiki, all I got was a big fat load of nothing useful.

Yeah, she sounds like eternity alright. If she dies DC universe dies, I could say desame thing to Big G. Why she need Supes anyway?

Originally posted by Rols
Yeah, she sounds like eternity alright. If she dies DC universe dies, I could say desame thing to Big G. Why she need Supes anyway?

Big difference. Big G dies, Abraxas comes out destroying everything piece by piece. The universe doesn't automatically die.

If Kismet dies, REALITY dies.

Good old Whirly was right...

"Herd behavior is a comical thing..."

I wasn't even talking about full power Galactus taking note. I'm talking about regular, not trying to eat Earth galactus. Superman had all that power, yet he didn't even try to yank Imperiex outta the reality he was invading?? Best idea he had was a full force tackle?? Gotta love meathead writers.

Originally posted by grey fox
Hey I checked Kismet on wiki, all I got was a big fat load of nothing useful.

Wiki rarely gives accurate or complete info.

If I'm in the mood, maybe I'll post scans at some point, or maybe someone else will be kind enough to do it.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I wasn't even talking about full power Galactus taking note. I'm talking about regular, not trying to eat Earth galactus. Superman had all that power, yet he didn't even try to yank Imperiex outta the reality he was invading?? Best idea he had was a full force tackle?? Gotta love meathead writers.

We both know that wasn't exactly the best written story arc.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Wiki rarely gives accurate or complete info.

If I'm in the mood, maybe I'll post scans at some point, or maybe someone else will be kind enough to do it.

I know she's Phantom stranger. But I also know that she got Punked by Parasite.

Originally posted by grey fox
I know she's Phantom stranger. But I also know that she got Punked by Parasite.

Phantom Stranger is a totally different character from Strange Visitor.
Strange Visitor had no idea who she really was until basically the last moment.
Even in Strange visitor mode, she owned parasite once she got SOME of her memory back.

Carry on.

Agrees with Avalon, Kismet+Supes wins. Kismet really isn't the DC Universe she is a Lord of Order and is probably the 2nd most powerful (Dr. Fate/Nabu being 1st). Her role is Illuminator of All Realities and Pathways. She is also the DC Universes protector, sorta like Eternity but then again sorta not.

Something I never could understand is the ultimate Nullifier, It is apart of Galactus yet he fears it and it have the power to destroy and remake the multiverse.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Phantom Stranger is a totally different character from Strange Visitor.
Strange Visitor had no idea who she really was until basically the last moment.
Even in Strange visitor mode, she owned parasite once she got SOME of her memory back.

Carry on.

**** !!!

Sorry got Phantom stranger confused with Strange visitor.

I'm comparing her to Galactus that i've seen. Not full power, since like Avy said, as of right now, that level is only hypothetical. What has Kismet done that means she can take on Galactus?? Just one or two hardcore feats. Not about Role or standing. Just examples of her power.
I don't even acknowledge Superman in the equation, since the way people are hyping her up, she's Eternity level in power, not just role. Superman adds nothing to her power.
Has she thought an entire galaxy across the universe? Galactus has.
Has she devolved gods with thoughts? Galactus has.
Has she fought a battle for a billion years, destroying countless galaxies as a cost? Galactus has.
Has she empowered regular humanoids with the powers to create blackholes, invoke the evolution of an entire planet from start to an inadvertant death? Gone through time?? Galactus has.
Manipulate mortal souls?? Galactus has.
Fought with a high demon lord, and destroyed multiple solar systems as a result, and was winning, even while nowhere near full power?? Galactus has.
Fought with an ig wielder decently, though it was a losing battle?? Galactus has.
Fought with the embodiment of life and death(which even empowers him), and not shown to be vastly inferior?? Galactus has.

What has she done, to convince many that she's on the level of Galactus, much less his slightly more powerful older brother??

Sorry for the rant, but what has the wench done?!

Originally posted by Validus
I'm not fully serious, hence the hat smiley, but Galactus gets generally too much credit. I don't see why he's let off the hook for jobbing when other characters aren't. Full power Galactus is just a hypothetical power level we haven't even seen.

Actually I'm not on iehter side particularly,

but galactus at FULL power has been seen just not in the form of Galactus but rather DR DOOM.

Doom became what Galactus is at FULL power,
when he absorbed not only Galactus's power but also Galactus's Galaxy size home ship, this was Galactus's initial plan to battle the Beyonder.

Doom became one with the Universe when he did this.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
In a fanboys mind, galactus is unbeatable...despite his MANY loses.


Galactus only loses when he's starving and weak, never at normal power. The thread starter said FULL powered Galactus which Eternity says is his equal.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Big difference. Big G dies, Abraxas comes out destroying everything piece by piece. The universe doesn't automatically die.

If Kismet dies, REALITY dies.

Good old Whirly was right...

"Herd behavior is a comical thing..."

Actually if Big G dies the Multiverse begins to self destruct regradless.

Abraxas is just the embodiment of that destruction sort of speak, the Multiverse will flip flop and everything will warp ultimately leading to a Multiversal collapse.

Abraxas is just there to rub his hands in glee as this happens and add wood to the fire that will burn down the Multiverse inevitably.

This scan shows Abraxas just passing by and reality has already begun it's course of destruction, he's the cause, but this destructive power of his just emanates across the Multiverse without his direct control, although he is responsible.

Originally posted by Darth_Erebus
Galactus only loses when he's starving and weak, never at normal power. The thread starter said FULL powered Galactus which Eternity says is his equal.

OK, and it's already been established that Kismet is Eternities counterpart. The essence of reality.

I stated that a Superman combined with that can win.

You stated that NO Superman can ever beat Galactus.

My comment wasn't the closed minded false one.

Avy, we all know that Kismet is Eternitys equal or closest to it, in role. All i wanna see now, is the power that allows her to defeat Galactus. Her role is solidified in my eyes. Can i see the power now?? And one thing.......When Kismet merged with Superman, she seemed to die in the process. How come reality didn't, infact, end right there?? And why didn't Imperiex target her, rather than lil ole Earth??

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually if Big G dies the Multiverse begins to self destruct regradless.

Abraxas is just the embodiment of that destruction sort of speak, the Multiverse will flip flop and everything will warp ultimately leading to a Multiversal collapse.

Abraxas is just there to rub his hands in glee as this happens and add wood to the fire that will burn down the Multiverse inevitably.

This scan shows Abraxas just passing by and reality has already begun it's course of destruction, he's the cause, but this destructive power of his just emanates across the Multiverse without his direct control, although he is responsible.

So the Ultimate nullifier basically restarts everything.
Sounds like what Imperiex does, and both Galactus and Abraxas are scared of it.
Correct?

Cool scan. I like the character design.

Galactus doesn't fear the nullifier itself, per se. He fears what damage it can do, in the wrong hands. Only he can wield it without fearing its power, due to it being an aspect of him.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Avy, we all know that Kismet is Eternitys equal or closest to it, in role. All i wanna see now, is the power that allows her to defeat Galactus. Her role is solidified in my eyes. Can i see the power now?? And one thing.......When Kismet merged with Superman, she seemed to die in the process. How come reality didn't, infact, end right there?? And why didn't Imperiex target her, rather than lil ole Earth??

She didn't die, just like Superman didn't die. Now, Sharon Vance (Strange Visitor and her "human" half) died. Kismet is still around.

It's like saying, "Why didn't Abraxas just manipulate reality so that he ender up with the IG, or the Ultimate nullifier and then point it at Eternity himself?

I'd love to pull scans like I usually do, but the comics that I DID have with her were lent out never to return *cue eery music.*

Needless to say, one is a matter manipulator on a grand scale and the other is a reality manipulator on a grand scale.

Avy, answer the question i posted before................ What has she done to prove she's Eternitys peer in power, and not role alone.

Who's the matter manipulator and who's the reality manipulator?? Cuz i gotta question for you, dependent on the answer given.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Something I never could understand is the ultimate Nullifier, It is apart of Galactus yet he fears it and it have the power to destroy and remake the multiverse.

Actually you understand it perfectly well Big, that's exactly the way it goes.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So the Ultimate nullifier basically restarts everything.
Sounds like what Imperiex does, and both Galactus and Abraxas are scared of it.
Correct?

Cool scan. I like the character design.

Imperiex can destroy and remake the DC Multiverse to whatever he wishes?

Originally posted by UniOmni
Galactus doesn't fear the nullifier itself, per se. He fears what damage it can do, in the wrong hands. Only he can wield it without fearing its power, due to it being an aspect of him.

And Reed.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Avy, answer the question i posted before................ What has she done to prove she's Eternitys peer in power, and not role alone.

Who's the matter manipulator and who's the reality manipulator?? Cuz i gotta question for you, dependent on the answer given.

She's done what Eternity and Galactus has done. Job.

In all seriousness though. She's the reality manipulator and he's the matter manipulator.

The only scan I have available is the one that says reality goes down if she does.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
OK, and it's already been established that Kismet is Eternities counterpart. The essence of reality.

I stated that a Superman combined with that can win.

You stated that NO Superman can ever beat Galactus.

My comment wasn't the closed minded false one.

Is Kismet the Embodiment of ALL that is in the DC Universe or Multiverse.

Eternity has two versions generally,

Universal Aspects of Eternity which represent each individual Universe

and

A Multiversal Entity who is the TRUE Eternity that embodies the ENTIRE Multiverse.

Captain Universe refered to it as Multi-Eternity.

Now who does Kismet most resemble?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Imperiex can destroy and remake the DC Multiverse to whatever he wishes?

I know he found the universe flawed, and he wished to remake it. If he had any plans after that, I couldn't tell you. It would have been like Parallax who did have that ability.

He showed that he was able to remake it.

I still stand by the theoretical power vs theoretical power debate.

Which brings another debate. When Krona killed Galactus, where was Abraxas?

there should be no way, shes on par with eternity. why would somebody that high. need to merge with supes? thats like saying that eternity needs to fuse with thor.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I know he found the universe flawed, and he wished to remake it. If he had any plans after that, I couldn't tell you. It would have been like Parallax who did have that ability.

He showed that he was able to remake it.

I still stand by the theoretical power vs theoretical power debate.

Which brings another debate. When Krona killed Galactus, where was Abraxas?
its called pis

Originally posted by Mr Master
Is Kismet the Embodiment of ALL that is in the DC Universe or Multiverse.

Eternity has two versions generally,

Universal Aspects of Eternity which represent each individual Universe

and

A Multiversal Entity who is the TRUE Eternity that embodies the ENTIRE Multiverse.

Captain Universe refered to it as Multi-Eternity.

Now who does Kismet most resemble?

DC technically doesn't have a multiverse anymore and it's been that way for a long time. So she would embody everything that is current reality.

what about when the universe gets destroyed every other comic, where is kismat?

Off somewhere in pis land. Abraxas should've come out and whooped his ass, but Busiek must not have read that particular arc.

For the record....Her and other "reality warpers" aren't any different from Matter manipulators at all, imo.
Either way, reality is essentially the state of ones perceptions.
Phoenix is a matter manipulator on the highest possible level, but she rewrote an entire reality, and thus, warped it.
So she can be defined as a reality warper.
When you get to the levels that Celestials on up operate on, the differences between the two cease to exist. At least, imo.
And Galactus is included in the on up category.

And even though Galactus and Eternity job, they have their feats as well. All i wanna know is, what're hers?

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
I know he found the universe flawed, and he wished to remake it. If he had any plans after that, I couldn't tell you. It would have been like Parallax who did have that ability.

He showed that he was able to remake it.

I still stand by the theoretical power vs theoretical power debate.

Which brings another debate. When Krona killed Galactus, where was Abraxas?

That was a JLA issue wasn't it?

not canon.

Originally posted by bigbran
what about when the universe gets destroyed every other comic, where is kismat?

Where is LT everytime another universe destroying menace is about to pop up?

Not doing a damn thing.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That was a JLA issue wasn't it?

not canon.

JLA/Avengers is considered canon.

thats because hes lazy, and only comes in when he feels its nesicarry.

and were talking ABOUT ETERNITY, NOT LT, and eternity does jump in.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Off somewhere in pis land. Abraxas should've come out and whooped his ass, but Busiek must not have read that particular arc.

For the record....Her and other "reality warpers" aren't any different from Matter manipulators at all, imo.
Either way, reality is essentially the state of ones perceptions.
Phoenix is a matter manipulator on the highest possible level, but she rewrote an entire reality, and thus, warped it.
So she can be defined as a reality warper.
When you get to the levels that Celestials on up operate on, the differences between the two cease to exist. At least, imo.
And Galactus is included in the on up category.

And even though Galactus and Eternity job, they have their feats as well. All i wanna know is, what're hers?

Phoenix is not a "matter manipulator on the highest possible level", her greatest warp feat is molding 616 Universe, others can do that.

Reed Richards - Quasar and definitely Galactus with the Ultimate Nullifier are "matter manipulators on the highest possible level".

Also in no particular order:

Thanos with THOU
pre-retcon Beyonder
pre-retcon Molecule man
Wanda remade 616 and can destroy the Multiverse
Living Tribunal can turn beings into Universes with a mere touch.
Infinity Gauntlet can remake a Universe from another Universe(Multiversal)

hey that is in order.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Off somewhere in pis land. Abraxas should've come out and whooped his ass, but Busiek must not have read that particular arc.

For the record....Her and other "reality warpers" aren't any different from Matter manipulators at all, imo.
Either way, reality is essentially the state of ones perceptions.
Phoenix is a matter manipulator on the highest possible level, but she rewrote an entire reality, and thus, warped it.
So she can be defined as a reality warper.
When you get to the levels that Celestials on up operate on, the differences between the two cease to exist. At least, imo.
And Galactus is included in the on up category.

And even though Galactus and Eternity job, they have their feats as well. All i wanna know is, what're hers?

So Galactus can manipulate reality?
Reality includes matter manipulation since you need some sort of reality to have matter. It doesn't work the other way around. Phoenix repaired timelines, it wasn't just matter manipulation.

This actually all proved my point. Kismet combined with Supes CAN defeat Galactus.

It's all theoretical of course, since scans of full power galactus destroying the universe haven't surfaced, just like Kismet scans haven't surfaced with her in H2H combat (which is ridiculous for cosmic characters at the level anyway.)

And Abraxas cannot defeat the Krona from JLA/Avengers. Grandmaster had the IG and used the powers of the most powerful artifacts (including the ultimate nullifier) from both universes and STILL lost.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix is not a "matter manipulator on the highest possible level", her greatest warp feat is molding 616 Universe, others can do that.

Reed Richards - Quasar and definitely Galactus with the Ultimate Nullifier are "matter manipulators on the highest possible level".

Also in no particular order:

Thanos with THOU
pre-retcon Beyonder
pre-retcon Molecule man
Wanda remade 616 and can destroy the Multiverse
Living Tribunal can turn beings into Universes with a mere touch.
Infinity Gauntlet can remake a Universe from another Universe(Multiversal)
No Phoenix is better than Wanda sorry!

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
JLA/Avengers is considered canon.

Crossovers?

the story tends to lean sometimes if you know what I'm saying.

In most forums it's considered non-canon.

In any case, Galactus dying outside the Multiverse does not affect Eternity.

This is why Abraxas did not appear.

Abraxas is manifested from the heart of Eternity and Infinity when any Galactus dies. Not from Galactus's body.

Originally posted by Broly92
No Phoenix is better than Wanda sorry!

In what way?

When did Quasar and Richards become matter manipulators?? Much less on that level??

And why does it seem like you have a dislike of Phoenix?? She is powerful on a crazy level.

Thanos with the HOTU is pretty much God. But so is Toad with the HOTU. Thats power from an external source.

PreRetcon Beyonder no longer exists. He's been demoted to a cube.
As has MM.
I thought most of Wandas power was illusionary?? Do you consider her to be more powerful than the PF?? Or just in the general ballpark??

I know the LT is powerful. No surprise there.
And the ig is powerful too. Again, no surprise there.
But if a being can affect an entire reality, from outside of said reality, doesn't that make it a multiversal being? Since he/she/it affected something from beyond its walls?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Crossovers?

the story tends to lean sometimes if you know what I'm saying.

In most forums it's considered non-canon.

In any case, Galactus dying outside the Multiverse does not affect Eternity.

This is why Abraxas did not appear.

Abraxas is manifested from the heart of Eternity and Infinity when any Galactus dies. Not from Galactus's body.

He killed Galactus in the savage land. It was in the marvel multiverse.

i never wil accept crossovers. venom beating supes and spides. carnage getting knocked out by a crowbar. thanos not being able to hurt darkseid, krona getting beat by a arrow. storm beating wonder woman.... the pis keeps rolling in.

Originally posted by bigbran
hey that is in order.

If I had to put them in Order it would be:

pre-retcon Beyonder
pre-retcon Molecule Man
Thanos THOU
Living Tribunal
IG
Ultimate Nullifier
Wanda

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So Galactus can manipulate reality?
Reality includes matter manipulation since you need some sort of reality to have matter. It doesn't work the other way around. Phoenix repaired timelines, it wasn't just matter manipulation.

This actually all proved my point. Kismet combined with Supes CAN defeat Galactus.

It's all theoretical of course, since scans of full power galactus destroying the universe haven't surfaced, just like Kismet scans haven't surfaced with her in H2H combat (which is ridiculous for cosmic characters at the level anyway.)

And Abraxas cannot defeat the Krona from JLA/Avengers. Grandmaster had the IG and used the powers of the most powerful artifacts (including the ultimate nullifier) from both universes and STILL lost.

I don't wanna see her punching somebody, though DC wouldn't surprise me if they had her doing so. I just wanna see some shown power feats. Without feats, she has nothing to stand on. Implied power is never superior to shown, on panel power.

Plus, the UN isn't as powerful in everybodies hands. Some people can wield it better than others. Galactus wields it the best of all.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I don't wanna see her punching somebody, though DC wouldn't surprise me if they had her doing so. I just wanna see some shown power feats. Without feats, she has nothing to stand on. Implied power is never superior to shown, on panel power.

Plus, the UN isn't as powerful in everybodies hands. Some people can wield it better than others. Galactus wields it the best of all.

Is the nullifier in Galactus hands more powerful than the IG?

Does TOAA have on panel feats? Should we say that Galactus can beat it too?
We know it's role so it's a safe assumption.

Like I said more than once. Theoretical power vs Theoretical power.

One lives in a universe and one is the embodiment of the universe.

Superman combined in this form can win.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If I had to put them in Order it would be:

pre-retcon Beyonder
pre-retcon Molecule Man
Thanos THOU
Living Tribunal
IG
Ultimate Nullifier
Wanda


Mr. Master you are way off ^^^,

1. TOAA/ Thanos w/ THOU
2. Living Trinbunal/ White Corwn Phoenix/True Beyonder
3. IG/ Infinties
4. Eternity/Death/Full-Powered Galactus/Infinity/Oblivion/Abraxas/Exitar


12.Molecule Man is a cube being, and cube beings are a notch above skyfathers. Wanda would below cube beings since Shaper of Worlds can warp reality on a larger scale.

Originally posted by UniOmni
When did Quasar and Richards become matter manipulators?? Much less on that level??

I did specify with the Ultimate Nullifier.
Reed already rewrote the Multiverse with the UN.
Quasar could have done it, but the Infinity Gauntlet turned it's energies back on Quasar.

Many underestimate the IG.


Originally posted by UniOmni
And why does it seem like you have a dislike of Phoenix?? She is powerful on a crazy level.

Dislike Phoenix?

I admire Phoenix!

But that doesn't mean I'm going to agree to an exaggeration to her credit.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Thanos with the HOTU is pretty much God. But so is Toad with the HOTU. Thats power from an external source.

External or not if he has it, he's above her.

Originally posted by UniOmni
PreRetcon Beyonder no longer exists. He's been demoted to a cube.
As has MM.

I know that.

But the the Beyonder and Molecule Man are considered canon anyways, when considering their pre-era.

So what ever FEAT Beyonder and Molecule Man had in their pre-days, can be brought to forums as fact, since until the retcon it was all official.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I thought most of Wandas power was illusionary?? Do you consider her to be more powerful than the PF?? Or just in the general ballpark??

Well she nearly collapse the Multiverse completely as you know with that chaos wave, and rewrote 616.

Phoenix has never shown to be able to destroy the Multiverse or especially rewrite it.

She rewrote 616, that's as far as it goes.
She also repaired the lattice of the M'Kraan crystal, which is a bigger feat, the Crystal can destroy the Multiverse and remake it, but the difference is, The Crystal molds the Multiverse in a premeditated fashion, like a program.

Unlike the UN which re-writes the Multiverse according to one's wishes.

Originally posted by UniOmni
I know the LT is powerful. No surprise there.

Well definitely he can transform being into Universes, many dont know this.

Originally posted by UniOmni
And the ig is powerful too. Again, no surprise there.
But if a being can affect an entire reality, from outside of said reality, doesn't that make it a multiversal being? Since he/she/it affected something from beyond its walls?

Not exactly,

Multiversal means being able to affect more than one universe simultaneously.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
He killed Galactus in the savage land. It was in the marvel multiverse.

Well there you go,

which is exactly why I don't like crossovers, lol.

how many forms of Superman have there been in total? cause it seems like alot

Originally posted by FujiFuu
how many forms of Superman have there been in total? cause it seems like alot


It's completely endless and totally inconsistant which is why I hate Superman.

Why does there have to be sixteen thousand versions of a single character?

AvalonOfTheWind and Mr. Master, you are two of the people on this forum in particular whos views and opinions about comics I o so like ^_^

Originally posted by the Darkone
Mr. Master you are way off ^^^,

1. TOAA/ Thanos w/ THOU
2. Living Trinbunal/ White Corwn Phoenix/True Beyonder
3. IG/ Infinties
4. Eternity/Death/Full-Powered Galactus/Infinity/Oblivion/Abraxas/Exitar


12.Molecule Man is a cube being, and cube beings are a notch above skyfathers. Wanda would below cube beings since Shaper of Worlds can warp reality on a larger scale.

Who's way off really?

Forget about "TOAA"

He's only appeared once in Marvel and it was me who posted the scans.

Thanos is not equal to TOAA since TOAA is the "GOD" of comics, the ARTIST, and the WRITER was called his "corroborator", possibly the "Devil",(you know, the balance between good and evil)

considering it's PRE-RETCON Beyonder and Molecule Man, they both could have destroyed and remade the Multiverse, which at their time was ALL there was.
Between MAY 1984 and October 1986 the Multiverse was, ALL KNOWN EXISTENCE = in 2006 to the Multiverse and EVERYTHING outside it now.

Yea I know what Molecule Man is, that's why we refer to him as POST-RETCON Molecule Man.



"Eternity/Death/Full-Powered Galactus/Infinity/Oblivion/Exitar"
Abraxas is more powerful than any of these abstracts including Exitar and Galactus.

Your own list in proper order.

TOAA
Marvel "GOD"

Multi-Death
resisted THOU

THOU
(Absorbed nearly ALL KNOWN EXISTENCE(including LT)

Living Tribunal
(Has power over the IG & Can Transform a being into a Universe with a touch.)

Beyonders/Infinites(although these are some obscure characters that are seldom seen)But fom what I know about them, they fit confortably here.
(So powerful can't even manifest themselves in our Multiverse but not much else is known about them.

IG
(Resisted the Ultimate Nullifier and contrloled it's energies)

Abraxas
(His purpose when manifested is to destroy the Mutiverse, and he has the power to do it.)

Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity
(The Embodiment of the Multiverse-Time&Space)

White Corwn Phoenix
(Repaired the Lattice of the M'Kraan Crystal & Rewrote the 616 Universe)


Well below these you got:

Full power Galactus
Oblivion? More like Entropy who would equal a FULL powered Galactus

Exitar is way in over his head.

Now this is a hierarchy based on Power, not Roles or essentiality.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Many underestimate the IG.




Dislike Phoenix?

I admire Phoenix!

But that doesn't mean I'm going to agree to an exaggeration to her credit.



External or not if he has it, he's above her.



I know that.

But the the Beyonder and Molecule Man are considered canon anyways, when considering their pre-era.

So what ever FEAT Beyonder and Molecule Man had in their pre-days, can be brought to forums as fact, since until the retcon it was all official.



Well she nearly collapse the Multiverse completely as you know with that chaos wave, and rewrote 616.

Phoenix has never shown to be able to destroy the Multiverse or especially rewrite it.

She rewrote 616, that's as far as it goes.
She also repaired the lattice of the M'Kraan crystal, which is a bigger feat, the Crystal can destroy the Multiverse and remake it, but the difference is, The Crystal molds the Multiverse in a premeditated fashion, like a program.




Lol You should change some of your statement about phoenix and say shes number1 next to the TOAA before that guy galactic storm comes in and this thread becomes a 30 page thread based on galactic storm educating us all on the phoenix force .

Originally posted by Jesse7
AvalonOfTheWind and Mr. Master, you are two of the people on this forum in particular whos views and opinions about comics I o so like ^_^

Originally posted by sexyking


I've never felt educated by him, LOL.

Anyway when I debate, I debate with words of truth until I see contortion of facts and iether misleading or misinterpretations of evidence, that's when I hit the scans, then one can monolgue all they want, my response is the on panel proof.

Originally posted by Jesse7
AvalonOfTheWind and Mr. Master, you are two of the people on this forum in particular whos views and opinions about comics I o so like ^_^

Thanks! I try. It's been fun exchanging theories. Mr. M is a pretty cool guy.

^^^Having a reading rainbow moment guys?

Originally posted by UniOmni
^^^Having a reading rainbow moment guys?

I know you had an enlightened moment, lol.

I noticed a few mentions of crossovers but they really arent' considered canon. I remember a few posts a while back that contains references to Access as well as the marvel vs dc comics in canon books. Does that mean they are canon also, I think most of us would agree not. As far as Abraxus never appearing, that is prove in itself that the writers were not thinking of continuity and why it really should be disregarded just like most crossovers.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I know you had an enlightened moment, lol. Mr. Master wouldn't the Phoenix be considered to have multiversal control considering in the white hot room she governs creation and destruction of the multiverse. Though she has not literally destroyed it on panel its mentioned enough to be considered a fact in current continuity.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
I noticed a few mentions of crossovers but they really arent' considered canon. I remember a few posts a while back that contains references to Access as well as the marvel vs dc comics in canon books. Does that mean they are canon also, I think most of us would agree not. As far as Abraxus never appearing, that is prove in itself that the writers were not thinking of continuity and why it really should be disregarded just like most crossovers.

Let the wisdom shine Big.

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Mr. Master wouldn't the Phoenix be considered to have multiversal control considering in the white hot room she governs creation and destruction of the multiverse. Though she has not literally destroyed it on panel its mentioned enough to be considered a fact in current continuity.

Good question,

But does she really have Multiversal power?

When she spread her consciousness across the multiverse she did it via the Lighthouse in Excaliber 52,

Merlin can do the same via the Lighthouse

Excalibur's lighthouse (or actually its outer walls) is a building that simultaneously exists on every Earth throughout the multiverse, thus you can yous it as a firewire(for lack of a better term)to traverse the entire multiverse.

She repaired the Lattice of the M'Kraan Crystal, most impressive of her limited feats(atleast on the scal were talking)

She rewrote 616 Universe but that's it.


Governs creation?

Opal Luna Saturnyne is the Omniversal Majestrix that governs all these universes and oversees their progress, though for a short time, Saturnyne was replaced by her second-in-command Mandragon.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Who's way off really?

Forget about "TOAA"

He's only appeared once in Marvel and it was me who posted the scans.

Thanos is not equal to TOAA since TOAA is the "GOD" of comics, the ARTIST, and the WRITER was called his "corroborator", possibly the "Devil",(you know, the balance between good and evil)

considering it's PRE-RETCON Beyonder and Molecule Man, they both could have destroyed and remade the Multiverse, which at their time was ALL there was.
Between MAY 1984 and October 1986 the Multiverse was, ALL KNOWN EXISTENCE = in 2006 to the Multiverse and EVERYTHING outside it now.

Yea I know what Molecule Man is, that's why we refer to him as POST-RETCON Molecule Man.



"Eternity/Death/Full-Powered Galactus/Infinity/Oblivion/Exitar"
Abraxas is more powerful than any of these abstracts including Exitar and Galactus.

Your own list in proper order.

TOAA
Marvel "GOD"

Multi-Death
resisted THOU

THOU
(Absorbed nearly ALL KNOWN EXISTENCE(including LT)

Living Tribunal
(Has power over the IG & Can Transform a being into a Universe with a touch.)

Beyonders/Infinites(although these are some obscure characters that are seldom seen)But fom what I know about them, they fit confortably here.
(So powerful can't even manifest themselves in our Multiverse but not much else is known about them.

IG
(Resisted the Ultimate Nullifier and contrloled it's energies)

Abraxas
(His purpose when manifested is to destroy the Mutiverse, and he has the power to do it.)

Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity
(The Embodiment of the Multiverse-Time&Space)

White Corwn Phoenix
(Repaired the Lattice of the M'Kraan Crystal & Rewrote the 616 Universe)


Well below these you got:

Full power Galactus
Oblivion? More like Entropy who would equal a FULL powered Galactus

Exitar is way in over his head.

Now this is a hierarchy based on Power, not Roles or essentiality.

White Crown Phoenix is above the othe Cosmic abstracts, she holds the universe in her hand.

Originally posted by UniOmni
^^^Having a reading rainbow moment guys?

Worse. I typed that on a PSP.... probably the most painfull experience I've had lately.

You actually bought a psp?? Why? Most people i know just play old roms of the company that Sony fanboys(not saying you)love to bash.
Which is so ironic that my head hurts.

Originally posted by UniOmni
You actually bought a psp?? Why? Most people i know just play old roms of the company that Sony fanboys(not saying you)love to bash.
Which is so ironic that my head hurts. I bought one on release day, then sold it about a month and a half ago, its so dissapointing. Nintendo is killing it.

I can't see spending that much on a handheld. Even if it does do movies and all other crap i don't care about when it comes to videogames.

Sony was saying its gonna knock Ninty out the water, yet Ninty was at home in those rough seas, and Sony has yet to gain its Sealegs. Some people just can't respect the greatness that is the Godfather of games, Nintendo.

Originally posted by the Darkone
White Crown Phoenix is above the othe Cosmic abstracts, she holds the universe in her hand.

Those arent UNIVERSAL Abstracts I included,

those are the MULTIVERSAL Abstracts which Phoenix has never shown to be able to warp or remake.

Your absolutely right she did mold 616 Universe in her hands, but that's ONE Eternity, when there are MILLIONS of HIM roled into ONE called MULTI-ETERNITY.

This more publically known as the Multiverse!

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg

Originally posted by UniOmni
You actually bought a psp?? Why? Most people i know just play old roms of the company that Sony fanboys(not saying you)love to bash.
Which is so ironic that my head hurts.

I got it exactly for that ability. Honestly, most of it's real games suck and I'm not the gamer I used to be as a kid. I'd rather play the "other" companies old school games in portable anytime. I'll pick up a DS lite at some point as well....they seem to have some interesting stuff.