Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Does anyone one have scans for this issue?

No. But maybe you should have put a spoiler tag on this thread.

Anyways did Mags die or what?

Probably not. That guy can never die for long.

It was a "meh" issue. Made me "meh".

Since when can IM fly to the sun? They are getting a tad off the wall with IM lately.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
No. But maybe you should have put a spoiler tag on this thread.

Anyways did Mags die or what?

don't know. but it is magneto. he should be up on his feet within a few weeks.

speaking of which anyone know the number of times Magneto has be presumed dead?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Since when can IM fly to the sun? They are getting a tad off the wall with IM lately. The Extremis has upgraded him alot. A hell of alot.

He did get there pretty quick though...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Since when can IM fly to the sun? They are getting a tad off the wall with IM lately. I agree.

And they didn't find Mags body. So I'd presume he's alive.

I can see it now. The IM fans are gonn be like "IM's faster than light he flew to the Sun and back". Well for one we don't know how long it took cause there was no time captions or anything but either way it's still impressive.

New Avengers #20 was a giant heap of WTF.

Still no word on AF yet, which is getting annoying.

It does seem that at least some of them are dead though. From reactions anyway. it's annoying they're not giving us real details.

Next issue is the cap-centric issue. I doubt we'll find out who survived in that. unless they're gonna be doing some fore-shadowing of the rumour that Cap is going to Canada to lead AF.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
It does seem that at least some of them are dead though. From reactions anyway. it's annoying they're not giving us real details.

Next issue is the cap-centric issue. I doubt we'll find out who survived in that. unless they're gonna be doing some fore-shadowing of the rumour that Cap is going to Canada to lead AF.

Some are dead, but not all as said in an interview. Probally Puck II and Major Mapleaf as Guardian, Puck and Sasquatch appeared on the Civil War poster.

That rumor was squashed by Mark Miller
1. http://www.alphaflight.net/latest_news/index.php

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Some are dead, but not all as said in an interview. Probally Puck II and Major Mapleaf as Guardian, Puck and Sasquatch appeared on the Civil War poster. Yeah, i'd be fine with that. I liked Puck II, but if anyone has to die they're the two i could stand losing. I really hope the rest are alive.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
That rumor was squashed by Mark Miller
1. http://www.alphaflight.net/latest_news/index.php That's good news. The Cap rumour had me cringing.

At least we know Sentry's main strategy now.

Sentry: "I could throw him into the Sun."
Cap: "No."
Sentry: "What if I just throw him into the Sun?"
Cap: "No, Bob."
Sentry: "Say, I have an idea. Why don't I try throwing him into the Sun?"
Cap: "All right, Bob, all right! You want to throw him into the Sun, then fine! Go ahead already!"
Sentry: "Yay! Come on, Iron Man, we get to throw somebody into the Sun!"

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I can see it now. The IM fans are gonn be like "IM's faster than light he flew to the Sun and back". Well for one we don't know how long it took cause there was no time captions or anything but either way it's still impressive.
I wouldn't say faster than light necessarily, but that is pretty damn fast.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
Yeah, i'd be fine with that. I liked Puck II, but if anyone has to die they're the two i could stand losing. I really hope the rest are alive.

That's good news. The Cap rumour had me cringing.

There is always the Alpha Flight in space

and I want some news on the new AF series that is coming, bah!

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
It does seem that at least some of them are dead though. From reactions anyway. it's annoying they're not giving us real details.

Next issue is the cap-centric issue. I doubt we'll find out who survived in that. unless they're gonna be doing some fore-shadowing of the rumour that Cap is going to Canada to lead AF.

Pft, Cap dosent run away from his problems

Cap reprsents the American ideal, and this isnt his first run in with the government either

How would Captain America go to Canada anyway?

That would make no sense.

Because of the Alpha Flight in space thing, the only members we really stand to lose are Sasquatch, Major Mapleleaf II and Puck II.

Sasquatch has been dead so many times, if a writer ever wants to bring him back, I think he easily could.

Too bad about the newbies though, I thought they had promise. Major Mapleleaf's superpowered horse gimmick could have been really neat, and I liked the development Puck II was starting to get, really acrobatic, but with the unexplained "irresistable force" thing going on. They could have expanded that into a physics warping field around her body, or minor gravity powers, or something.

...And all that could have been.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
New Avengers #20 was a giant heap of WTF. Amen to dat brudda.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
New Avengers #20 was a giant heap of WTF.
Agree. New Avengers is one of the books I keep buying even though the quality is completely lacking. Deodato's asstastic artwork isn't helping matters.

His art in this disgusts me.


And to think, I loved the art in his run with Amazing Spidey.

Well the coloring is at least partially to blame but I'm not a huge fan of his style anyway. His work on Spidey was way better.

That's why I simply quit buying it. I think if everyone who felt the way you did dropped the book, and everyone with a Bendis Boner read the book from a fresh perspective and got around the name recognition, they'd drop it too, and Marvel would have to revamp or cancel it because of sales.

There was nothing wrong with the old Avengers. Aside from the fact that they let Johns leave.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I can see it now. The IM fans are gonn be like "IM's faster than light he flew to the Sun and back". Well for one we don't know how long it took cause there was no time captions or anything but either way it's still impressive.

No .... Only Superman fanboys are desperate enough to use that one.

Originally posted by Validus
Agree. New Avengers is one of the books I keep buying even though the quality is completely lacking. Deodato's asstastic artwork isn't helping matters.

Its like watching England in the World cup .... your so depsrate for them to be good, that you over hype everything they do right, but you know deep down that they're shit. Even Whirly was really into this last New Avengers arc, and we all know what hes like about Bendis, and Marvel in general.

What was so speial about it anyway?

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
That's why I simply quit buying it. I think if everyone who felt the way you did dropped the book, and everyone with a Bendis Boner read the book from a fresh perspective and got around the name recognition, they'd drop it too, and Marvel would have to revamp or cancel it because of sales.

There was nothing wrong with the old Avengers. Aside from the fact that they let Johns leave.

Geoff Johns was writing the old Avengers book ?

'There was nothing wrong with the old Avengers.'

I disagree mate, b4 dissasmbled it was reallly average. Its slightly better now, but its so dissapointing seeing such a good writer writing really below par work. IMO he should swap roles with Stransynski (Sorry about the spelling) on Spiderman. I think Ellis could do a good job as well.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I can see it now. The IM fans are gonn be like "IM's faster than light he flew to the Sun and back". Well for one we don't know how long it took cause there was no time captions or anything but either way it's still impressive.

IM didn't actually go to the sun.... only Sentry did, IM just hung about in Earth's orbit watching him..... i think.... i'll go check again

Originally posted by Accel
At least we know Sentry's main strategy now.

Sentry: "I could throw him into the Sun."
Cap: "No."
Sentry: "What if I just throw him into the Sun?"
Cap: "No, Bob."
Sentry: "Say, I have an idea. Why don't I try throwing him into the Sun?"
Cap: "All right, Bob, all right! You want to throw him into the Sun, then fine! Go ahead already!"
Sentry: "Yay! Come on, Iron Man, we get to throw somebody into the Sun!"

I think Sentry posts on KMC in all the Superman threads

Originally posted by HellMaster93
What was so speial about it anyway?

Nothing, and thats what my shit analogy was trying to convey. Everyone is so desperate for New avengers to be a good book, that when its 'ok', everyone starts raving about it. IMO Bendis should stick to what he does best, i.e. realistic, noir, streetlevel work.

Originally posted by Scoobless
IM didn't actually go to the sun.... only Sentry did, IM just hung about in Earth's orbit watching him..... i think.... i'll go check again

The scans:

1. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00196fp.jpg
2. http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00202ii.jpg
3. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00215jn.jpg
4. http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00223sw.jpg
5. http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan00233kw.jpg

The first scan shows Iron Man being totally unable to keep up with the Sentry

the fact that Sentry arrives back down two full pages after Iron Man tells me that he didn't go much, if anything, beyond Earth orbit

Oh yeah..... apparently Sentry's cape/clothes can survive entering the damn Sun! .....WTF is up with that?

WTF? Who was that guy? He killed AF?

Geoff Johns did the Red Zone arc which was pretty good. He also did something with a new group of Zodiac, which will probably just languish as a dangling plot thread forevermore.

The only thing wrong with Avengers before hand, is they let Austen on the book. That was it, as far as I'm concerned. To go from a nigh-legendary run by Busiek--which admittedly did have some low points--and to wind up with Chuck Austen on the book? Something was ****ed up. But it was nothing that couldn't have been fixed.

I agree, I think JMS would do some interesting things with the Avengers, his Amazing Spider-Man as of recently hasn't really grabbed me, but I like his Fantastic Four well enough. Although I wouldn't swap it out and give Amazing Spider-Man to Bendis, I'd hand it off to a different writer. I say this a lot when it comes to a writer I'd like to see on a book, but I'd like to see Priest on Spider-Man. He edited the book for years, he knows Spider-Man and I think while everyone else is complaining about Peter being married, or being unmasked, or this and that, Priest could take it and make an interesting story. Whether or not it would sell...therein lies the problem.

I don't think Ellis could do it, not because he lacks talent, but because he prefers seemingly to reside on the outskirts of superhero territory.

Meh... just get Frank Miller... then the comic'll be fun for... all the wrong reasons... LOL, I can just see Cap force feeding rats to bucky...

I'd buy that!

Originally posted by HellMaster93
Meh... just get Frank Miller... then the comic'll be fun for... all the wrong reasons... LOL, I can just see Cap force feeding rats to bucky...

"I'm the g*ddamn Captain. The g*ddamn Captain America."

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Geoff Johns did the Red Zone arc which was pretty good. He also did something with a new group of Zodiac, which will probably just languish as a dangling plot thread forevermore.B]

Those stories, where pretty good, but not nearly as good as Re-birth or the Crisis.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
The only thing wrong with Avengers before hand, is they let Austen on the book. That was it, as far as I'm concerned. To go from a nigh-legendary run by Busiek--which admittedly did have some low points--and to wind up with Chuck Austen on the book? Something was ****ed up. But it was nothing that couldn't have been fixed.B]

Legendary ?????? Hardly ! Legendary is Morisson JLA, Ellis Authority, Frank Miller Batman, Moore Swampthing, Ennis Preacher, Bendis Dare Devil. I dont think stories abot Pagan, Ultron, Silver Claw and Triathalon, come under the legendary category.



Originally posted by ScarletSpider
I don't think Ellis could do it, not because he lacks talent, but because he prefers seemingly to reside on the outskirts of superhero territory.

His recent Iron man arc, was sublime.

Ultron stories are quite often pretty good

Originally posted by Scoobless
Ultron stories are quite often pretty good

Ultron unlimited was ok, but its not on the same level as Tower of Babel or WW3.

Haven't read those

Kang War was good too.

And I wasn't comparing Red Zone or Zodiac to Re-Birth or Crisis (which had a stupid end with the Joker). I meant to compare it to Bendis' shitty New Avengers.

And Kurt Busiek's run, as I said was nigh-legendary. It was fun, it was a book I looked forward to every month. He didn't set out to change the status quo or revolutionize the medium, he set out to tell good stories. It's the most recent Avengers run worth reading.

Ellis' Iron Man was good, but before that his Ultimate Fantastic Four was terrible. Other instances of his work, Nextwave, Planetary, Transmetropolitan, those are the stories he wants to tell, and they don't mesh well with the superheroics that should be inherent to Avengers. He's a great writer, I enjoy his works immensley, most of the time, but that doesn't make him right for just any assignment.

The Joker end wasan't HAT stupid...

Maybe it's just me, but after all the bigtime cosmic hijinks, having the Joker shoot someone in the face--someone who just mucked with all the heroes, villains and various realities--was pretty lame.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Kang War was good too.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
And I wasn't comparing Red Zone or Zodiac to Re-Birth or Crisis (which had a stupid end with the Joker). I meant to compare it to Bendis' shitty New Avengers.

i know mate, but i still think Bendis's work surpasses the entire 3rd Volume, including the Kang Wars.



Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Ellis' Iron Man was good, but before that his Ultimate Fantastic Four was terrible. Other instances of his work, Nextwave, Planetary, Transmetropolitan, those are the stories he wants to tell, and they don't mesh well with the superheroics that should be inherent to Avengers. He's a great writer, I enjoy his works immensley, most of the time, but that doesn't make him right for just any assignment.

If he can make Storm watch and Authority work, im sure he fit right in on the avengers.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Maybe it's just me, but after all the bigtime cosmic hijinks, having the Joker shoot someone in the face--someone who just mucked with all the heroes, villains and various realities--was pretty lame.

I have no problem with greatest villan of all time ending one of the most epic comics of all time.

IMO, this type of incident/moment is what sets D.C. and marvel apart. Although Marvel are generally better at characterisation, D.C. are far superior a providing the monumental 'Holy Sh!t' moments.

Indeed!

We're just going to agree to disagree.

I've enjoyed Bendis' work in the past, but I don't think he's done anything of merit on New Avengers. Having Luke Cage stand on his soapbox for half an issue was boring. The Collective's debut was a waste of an issue. he hasn't gotten any characterization right in New Avengers it seems. He killed Alpha Flight for no reason (this is a bit of a fanboy reason for my disliking his work, but whatever). House of M was sub-par. Secret War was boring. His Ultimate Spider-Man has gone down hill in quality and towards the end their his Daredevil failed to preform. Maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just Bendised-out, he came on so strong and so fast and now I'm just tired of him.

And I still say Ellis wouldn't be right for Avengers. Again, maybe that's just me. He could write Stormwatch and Authority because he took it from the beginning and was able to make it weird and put his ideas in it. I would be interested to see him do a project with the Vision and maybe some of the weirder Avengers, but I think on the team ensemble, I wouldn't really have faith in him. Who knows, if it happens one day, I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
We're just going to agree to disagree.

I've enjoyed Bendis' work in the past, but I don't think he's done anything of merit on New Avengers. Having Luke Cage stand on his soapbox for half an issue was boring.

So true !!!!!!


Originally posted by ScarletSpider
The Collective's debut was a waste of an issue. he hasn't gotten any characterization right in New Avengers it seems. He killed Alpha Flight for no reason (this is a bit of a fanboy reason for my disliking his work, but whatever). House of M was sub-par. Secret War was boring. His Ultimate Spider-Man has gone down hill in quality and towards the end their his Daredevil failed to preform. Maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just Bendised-out, he came on so strong and so fast and now I'm just tired of him. .

I haven't read all of the Daredevil issues, but he generally on he ball. But i agree with you about House of M, and id add that Illuminati crap to that list. He's not strong on handeling 'titanic' events, and he should stick to his strenghths (I.e. developing street level characters).

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
And I still say Ellis wouldn't be right for Avengers. Again, maybe that's just me. He could write Stormwatch and Authority because he took it from the beginning and was able to make it weird and put his ideas in it. I would be interested to see him do a project with the Vision and maybe some of the weirder Avengers, but I think on the team ensemble, I wouldn't really have faith in him. Who knows, if it happens one day, I hope to be pleasantly surprised. .

Its been a pleasure talking to you S.S.

Is it just me or has the entire "Collective" storyline just been one big letdown?

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
I liked the development Puck II was starting to get, really acrobatic, but with the unexplained "irresistable force" thing going on. They could have expanded that into a physics warping field around her body, or minor gravity powers, or something.

...And all that could have been.

Irresistable force? I never heard about this.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Is it just me or has the entire "Collective" storyline just been one big letdown?

When you consider the quality of Benid's other work (Powers, Dare Devil etc) the whole New Avengers collection has been a let down.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Is it just me or has the entire "Collective" storyline just been one big letdown?

Yes, it was a letdown.


And I have to say, I enjoyed Bendis's Secret Wars.

It may have just been a throwaway comment thing, but since her "powers" were never really explained, and we saw her bouncing around quite a bit, I had kind of hoped that it may have been Lobdell beginning to explain her powers. Course then it got canned, but y'know.

i think i threw up when i saw xorn

WHY WOULD YOU BRING A CHARACTER LIKE THAT BACK

Hmmm... I don't know, I just assumed she had a connection with Razer.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
No .... Only Superman fanboys are desperate enough to use that one. But Supes has flown to the Sun. It's nothing new for him. But now IM can do it? That's about as gay as a pregenant pole-vaulter.

Did I hit a nerve?

Actually, going back and looking at the issue, on panel, we only see Iron Man make it as far as the moon.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Actually, going back and looking at the issue, on panel, we only see Iron Man make it as far as the moon.

Yup... i posted it on page 2 of this thread

Has IM ever flown to the Moon before? That's still impressive.

Well he's flown into space quite a few times.... don't actually know if he ever went as far as the moon before though

Y'know, the Sentry does have a habit of throwing things into the sun. Imagine if after being thrown into the sun, the Void and the Collective combined into one being and came back.

The Sun is the Sentry's own personalised waste paper basket

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Y'know, the Sentry does have a habit of throwing things into the sun. Imagine if after being thrown into the sun, the Void and the Collective combined into one being and came back. I wonder where Sentry got that idea from?

Cap: Wolverine is going wild again.

Sentry: I can throw him into the sun.

Cap: Bring it on.

I was kinda dissapointed with this issue. I think im one of the few here that actually enjoys NA. I expected all mutants to regain their poweres at the end of this storyline but NO!. What was that that they threw in the sun? the mutant powers? just Xorn? But im glad that Magneto hopefully regained his powers. We all know he aint dead. I would like to see "Quake" as one of the Avengers.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
We're just going to agree to disagree.

I've enjoyed Bendis' work in the past, but I don't think he's done anything of merit on New Avengers. Having Luke Cage stand on his soapbox for half an issue was boring. The Collective's debut was a waste of an issue. he hasn't gotten any characterization right in New Avengers it seems. He killed Alpha Flight for no reason (this is a bit of a fanboy reason for my disliking his work, but whatever). House of M was sub-par. Secret War was boring. His Ultimate Spider-Man has gone down hill in quality and towards the end their his Daredevil failed to preform. Maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just Bendised-out, he came on so strong and so fast and now I'm just tired of him.

And I still say Ellis wouldn't be right for Avengers. Again, maybe that's just me. He could write Stormwatch and Authority because he took it from the beginning and was able to make it weird and put his ideas in it. I would be interested to see him do a project with the Vision and maybe some of the weirder Avengers, but I think on the team ensemble, I wouldn't really have faith in him. Who knows, if it happens one day, I hope to be pleasantly surprised. yes my child...come to the dark side...the Mark Millar side

"and towards the end their his Daredevil failed to preform"

wrong here

I've been on the Millar side for awhile, King KAM, and I enjoy it infinitely



The last arc, The Murdock Papers, good stuff. The one before that, I think it was, with the Daredevil support group and the Jester puking out creepy ninja shit was just dumb.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
I've enjoyed Bendis' work in the past, but I don't think he's done anything of merit on New Avengers. Having Luke Cage stand on his soapbox for half an issue was boring. The Collective's debut was a waste of an issue. he hasn't gotten any characterization right in New Avengers it seems. He killed Alpha Flight for no reason (this is a bit of a fanboy reason for my disliking his work, but whatever). House of M was sub-par. Secret War was boring. His Ultimate Spider-Man has gone down hill in quality and towards the end their his Daredevil failed to preform. Maybe that's just me, maybe I'm just Bendised-out, he came on so strong and so fast and now I'm just tired of him.

House of M was only intended as an X-men/Avengers crossover at first so I didn't expect too much from that. I loved Secret War, I thought he had quite a handle on all of the characters. I'm still enjoying Ultimate Spidey but I agree his work on Daredevil started to decline. I loved New Avengers but the last arc was something of a let down for me. I think the next arc is gonna be awesome though so I'm still gonna stick around.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
And I still say Ellis wouldn't be right for Avengers. Again, maybe that's just me. He could write Stormwatch and Authority because he took it from the beginning and was able to make it weird and put his ideas in it. I would be interested to see him do a project with the Vision and maybe some of the weirder Avengers, but I think on the team ensemble, I wouldn't really have faith in him. Who knows, if it happens one day, I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Completely agree. I do not see Ellis working on the Avengers

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
That's why I simply quit buying it. I think if everyone who felt the way you did dropped the book, and everyone with a Bendis Boner read the book from a fresh perspective and got around the name recognition, they'd drop it too, and Marvel would have to revamp or cancel it because of sales.

There was nothing wrong with the old Avengers. Aside from the fact that they let Johns leave.

I thought the old Avengers were boring. Some of the Busiek run had really good stories but the Austen and Johns run had me bored. I was skeptical about AvDissed but I liked it and New Avengers started off really great for me. Now its still pretty good but definitely not Bendis' best

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
I've been on the Millar side for awhile, King KAM, and I enjoy it infinitely



The last arc, The Murdock Papers, good stuff. The one before that, I think it was, with the Daredevil support group and the Jester puking out creepy ninja shit was just dumb.

Millers pretty good, although you cant expect any cutting edge dialogue or realistic character development. In many ways, Bendis and Miller are opposites.

Originally posted by marvelprince




Completely agree. I do not see Ellis working on the Avengers

Have you read his Authority or Planetary.... IMO he's perfect for the Avengers. I'd love to see Iron man, With Drummer/Enginerr powers. I think Namor or Thor could the next Elijah Snow, and it would be good to see Wolverine or Dare Devil as 'Hardcore' as the Midknighter. Imagine Strange performing the Doctor level feats, and Warbird with same badass persona as Jenny Sparks.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Have you read his Authority or Planetary.... IMO he's perfect for the Avengers. I'd love to see Iron man, With Drummer/Enginerr powers. I think Namor or Thor could the next Elijah Snow, and it would be good to see Wolverine or Dare Devil as 'Hardcore' as the Midknighter. Imagine Strange performing the Doctor level feats, and Warbird with same badass persona as Jenny Sparks.

Why not just go read more Authority comics then? ...

Originally posted by Scoobless
Why not just go read more Authority comics then? ...

Because Authority has been shit since Ellis left !

Then re-read the older stuff ...

Originally posted by Scoobless
Then re-read the older stuff ...

He only wrote 12 issues.

So it wont take you that long then.... go re-read it.... twice ....

Well ...collective ended anticlimactically.

They honestly could have done some cool stuff with it , but nope. Let's all blame it on Xorn....

I doubt that it's actually finished

But I can expect an entertaining story where something happens every issue. And if you've read New Avengers, I don't see how you can cite that Bendis has given anyone realistic character development.



Then it's not Avengers is it? It's the Authority with different costumes.

Has anybody read NA 21? I just picked it up, and thought it was freakin awesome.


...But the artwork made me puke.

I thought issue #20 had just come out

We're so lucky, we get two in a row.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Have you read his Authority or Planetary.... IMO he's perfect for the Avengers. I'd love to see Iron man, With Drummer/Enginerr powers. I think Namor or Thor could the next Elijah Snow, and it would be good to see Wolverine or Dare Devil as 'Hardcore' as the Midknighter. Imagine Strange performing the Doctor level feats, and Warbird with same badass persona as Jenny Sparks.

I have read his Authority work and I liked it, but his Ultimate Fantastic Four was awful. I agree with ScarletSpider when he said he only does really well with teams he started with.

BTW, I would hate to Avengers as Authority counterparts. No thank you

Which Ult FF issues did he write?

7-12, I think. God they were awful.

Did NA #21 actually come out? Our shop didn't get it.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
7-12, I think. God they were awful.

What made them so horrible?

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
What made them so horrible?




I think that answers your question...

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
7-12, I think. God they were awful.

The Doom story? it wasn't that bad.... fair enough they changed doom to be more like movie doom with the metal skin.... but having him be poor wasn't a big deal, he comes back soon and it seems he's doing better for himself

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Did NA #21 actually come out? Our shop didn't get it. Yes it came out. I've already scanned it and since it's a Civil War tie-in, I'll be posting it in the Civil War thread as soon as I finished loading it.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Has anybody read NA 21? I just picked it up, and thought it was freakin awesome.


...But the artwork made me puke.

Some of the diolouge for Falcon annoyed me as he was shown as this jive talking black hero, when he NEVER talks like that.

Its just like Bendis got lazy and decided to write Faclon as an idiot

Originally posted by ScarletSpider




Then it's not Avengers is it? It's the Authority with different costumes.

No all i mean is that he can handle teams very well, and is good at producing characters that are interesting to read .... Something that Brusiek couldn't hope to achieve in his wildest dreams.

Originally posted by marvelprince
I have read his Authority work and I liked it, but his Ultimate Fantastic Four was awful. I agree with ScarletSpider when he said he only does really well with teams he started with.

BTW, I would hate to Avengers as Authority counterparts. No thank you

I'm my opinion his Authority work is good, but Planetary is on another level. Don't tell me you wouldn't like to see Thor depicted like Elijah snow ?

P.S. Ellis is rumored to be writing the new Thor serries.

Originally posted by Scoobless
The Doom story? it wasn't that bad.... fair enough they changed doom to be more like movie doom with the metal skin.... but having him be poor wasn't a big deal, he comes back soon and it seems he's doing better for himself

Indeed ... I was alot more interested in goat like Doom than i was Pagan/Kang, during the apparently legendary Brusiek run.

The problem with Ultimate FF4, is that its unlikely to be ever the writers priority. For example both Millers and Bendis work on it doesn't really compare to their respective Ultimate Spider man/X men work. Which is why i dropped the book some time ago. If anything i think the series has suffered, as it was originally set to be written by Morrison, by he left at the last minute for an exclusive D.C. contract.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
Indeed ... I was alot more interested in goat like Doom than i was Pagan/Kang, during the apparently legendary Brusiek run.

The problem with Ultimate FF4, is that its unlikely to be ever the writers priority. For example both Millers and Bendis work on it doesn't really compare to their respective Ultimate Spider man/X men work. Which is why i dropped the book some time ago. If anything i think the series has suffered, as it was originally set to be written by Morrison, by he left at the last minute for an exclusive D.C. contract.

I didn't like Busiek's run all that much either, but I couldn't stand Goat Doom. Come on, colven hooves?

I agree with what your saying too. UFF is treated like the ugly sister of the Ultimate books. Show it some love writers

Originally posted by marvelprince
I didn't like Busiek's run all that much either, but I couldn't stand Goat Doom. Come on, colven hooves?

I agree with what your saying too. UFF is treated like the ugly sister of the Ultimate books. Show it some love writers

I agree at some extend. I hated what they did to Doom initially but he seem fine now. Lately it hasne been too bad and Greg Lands artwork is simpy amazing.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Some of the diolouge for Falcon annoyed me as he was shown as this jive talking black hero, when he NEVER talks like that.

Its just like Bendis got lazy and decided to write Faclon as an idiot

I agree. I dont see why McNieven didnt do this issue too. The artwork was horrendous.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Some of the diolouge for Falcon annoyed me as he was shown as this jive talking black hero, when he NEVER talks like that.

Its just like Bendis got lazy and decided to write Faclon as an idiot

Now that I think about it, that is annoying. "Ya dig?" WTF?


Still a good issue, though.

Originally posted by Scoobless
The Doom story? it wasn't that bad.... fair enough they changed doom to be more like movie doom with the metal skin.... but having him be poor wasn't a big deal, he comes back soon and it seems he's doing better for himself

I just reread 7-12

My thoughts :

What I Disliked


Vlad Tepes relation - What the ? ..Ok i guess it makes him more 'europian' but still stating that doom is related to Dracula is kinda odd..
The hooves - Ok , we get it. Tepes = Son of satan . Very funny , now wheres the real bad-ass doomness
Sue constantly mentioning that she and reed make out - You like swapping spit , good for you now get on with the damn story.
Doom's rocket launcher - WHAT THE HELL !!! , Doom does NOT pull a goddamn rocket launcher out of his coat and fire upon the F4 !!!
Dragon Tattoo - ENOUGH OF THE DAMN DRACULA REFERENCES !!!
Some of the artwork - Part's looked ..'iffy' , noticeably in reed and Ben's conversation Ben's ability to go to 'go to the bathroom'
Hogwarts mention - This is F4, not harry potter . End of story
Doom's constantly changing hair colour - Blonde then black ..wha-huh ?


Things I liked


Dialogue - It was quite smooth and realistic , with a few joeks placed here and their on most pages
Ben and Johhny ribbing on the Fantasticar - The name (In retrospect) does sound really silly...
Doom's powers - The quills were a little weird , but still pretty decent . The poison gas I like for some reason...i have no idea why ? If we could add in the electro-kinetic powers his movie counterpart had we might actually have a threat in the form of Ultimate Doom
Origin's of Clobbering time - Nice touch
Doom's 'legacy' - The constant mumbling of the bloodlines was intriguing , as was his abuse at the hands of his farther
Doom's Crazy - This was a nice counter balance to the usually calm and collected doom of 616 , the ranting was good to.
Reed's missing organs - It makes sense , after all how the hell would his body be able to stretch ?
Reed's mention of the think tank members - The sight of a guy sitting in the middle of a particloe accelerator playing a banjo makes me laugh...
Doom's robot's - Ok ..they do suck. But the idea behind the 'impalement' and the cannibalization of the parts was unique
Ben's threat of the soldier - "I knocked out a frickin sea-monster , what are you going to do soldier boy"
Tattoo - The idea behind it was pretty neat...
Sue getting nosebleeds - much like reed's powers it makes sense

Sorry some of us have taste, Yahman. C'mon now, Pagan, Lord Templar, Jonathan Tremont and the 3D-Man. 3D-Man is so sweet, Triathalon was pretty meh up until they revealed the sweet 3D-Man legacy, Then I had to put down the issue, cover myself in nutella and...you get the point.

And again, I never called it legendary. I said it came close, It's a runner up to legendary. It's an honorable mention. It was a fun read and I miss it.

Ellis wrote a Thor story some years back before Onslaught, it was pretty sweet. He shacked up with the Enchantress, the world tree Yggdrasil was in peril, and it was a great read. Plus he featured Red Norvell. And he writes Thor as Thor.

It's just my derogative that Avengers has to be done more or less like a straight super hero book. It can take twists and turns like any other book, but Ellis doesn't really do straight super-heroics. Nextwave is awesome, it's hilarious and one of my favorite reads every month, but that tone wouldn't exactly be appropriate for Avengers. Ellis could write Avengers, but I don't think it would be his best work, he'd be doing something that's just not him.

Yeah, and New Avengers 21 was a pretty hard read. Some people like Chaykan, I'm not one of them, and I found the artwork pretty atrocious. Bendis gets some points for remembering Steve's history as an artist. Those points are promptly taken away from writing Falcon like a thug. The "Snap" Wilson story is probably one of the worst stories ever told, it ruined Falcon's character and most writers just leave it alone. Sam's a smart man, he's well educated and not some jive-talking street hustler. You can't write Falcon like he's Luke Cage - super strength + wings and sweet trained telepathically linked hunting falcon.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Sorry some of us have taste, Yahman. C'mon now, Pagan, Lord Templar, Jonathan Tremont and the 3D-Man. 3D-Man is so sweet, Triathalon was pretty meh up until they revealed the sweet 3D-Man legacy, Then I had to put down the issue, cover myself in nutella and...you get the point.

And again, I never called it legendary. I said it came close, It's a runner up to legendary. It's an honorable mention. It was a fun read and I miss it.

Ellis wrote a Thor story some years back before Onslaught, it was pretty sweet. He shacked up with the Enchantress, the world tree Yggdrasil was in peril, and it was a great read. Plus he featured Red Norvell. And he writes Thor as Thor.

It's just my derogative that Avengers has to be done more or less like a straight super hero book. It can take twists and turns like any other book, but Ellis doesn't really do straight super-heroics. Nextwave is awesome, it's hilarious and one of my favorite reads every month, but that tone wouldn't exactly be appropriate for Avengers. Ellis could write Avengers, but I don't think it would be his best work, he'd be doing something that's just not him.

Yeah, and New Avengers 21 was a pretty hard read. Some people like Chaykan, I'm not one of them, and I found the artwork pretty atrocious. Bendis gets some points for remembering Steve's history as an artist. Those points are promptly taken away from writing Falcon like a thug. The "Snap" Wilson story is probably one of the worst stories ever told, it ruined Falcon's character and most writers just leave it alone. Sam's a smart man, he's well educated and not some jive-talking street hustler. You can't write Falcon like he's Luke Cage - super strength + wings and sweet trained telepathically linked hunting falcon.

It's because Bendis is an idiot , he can't write a black guy without making him ether

A. 'Gangsta'

B. Drug Dealers

C. Blaxploitation film extra's

Did NA #21 have anything about Alpha Flight?

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Did NA #21 have anything about Alpha Flight?

nope.

Originally posted by Black Adam
nope.

Well their death/lose was pointless then.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Well their death/lose was pointless then.

Way to go Bendis, way to show them respect.... prick

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Way to go Bendis, way to show them respect.... prick

Ireally dont care much about Alpha Flight. They never did anything major. Everythime a new series starts they get cancelled because they suck.

Originally posted by grey fox
It's because Bendis is an idiot , he can't write a black guy without making him ether

A. 'Gangsta'

B. Drug Dealers

C. Blaxploitation film extra's

He also seems to make the characters say random Jewish sayings.

I now there in New york and everything but I have never heard anyone actually say tuchus or oy vey unless they were jewish....

or making fun of Jewish people who talk like that...

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Ireally dont care much about Alpha Flight. They never did anything major. Everythime a new series starts they get cancelled because they suck.

You obviously havn't read the series then, and I suggest you check out the AF Respect Thread.

I did. Wasnt impressed. Why u liked it?

I think given that he has a Guardian avatar and sig, it might be a safe bet to say King Mungi likes Alpha Flight.

Their original series was sweet. The most recent didn't get cancelled because they suck, it was cancelled because Scott Lobdell sucks.

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
There was nothing wrong with the old Avengers. Aside from the fact that they let Johns leave.

Oh that's right, they sure did have Johns, didn't they? I wonder how many times they kicked themselves in the ass after that decision.

Wasn't Johns fired from Marvel? I remember reading something about how he and Morrison weren't allowed back at Marvel.

Originally posted by Black Adam
He also seems to make the characters say random Jewish sayings.

I now there in New york and everything but I have never heard anyone actually say tuchus or oy vey unless they were jewish....

or making fun of Jewish people who talk like that...
Hey , I'm a British atheist and I speak yiddish occasionally..it's fun

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
I think given that he has a Guardian avatar and sig, it might be a safe bet to say King Mungi likes Alpha Flight.

Their original series was sweet. The most recent didn't get cancelled because they suck, it was cancelled because Scott Lobdell sucks.

Bingo, and vol.2 sold really well but that was the time of Marvel's bankrupcy. If you look at the sales for vol.2 and compare them to todays sales it would be Marvel's #1 seller. Vol.3 was horrible

I forgot about volume 2. I seem to glance over it and go straight to the terrible volume 3 when thinking about Alpha Flight. But now that you've jogged it, I do have fond memories of volume 2. Lots of interesting plotlines and some cool new characters too. Radius was annoying, but I really liked Flex, I think he retained his powers post M-Day, it would be nice to see him again.

The writer of volume 2 said he was going to reveal Flex's dad as Wolverine, since Flex and Radius were only half-brothers, and Radius' father was Unus the Untouchable. Hmm...who else was there. I could take or leave Murmur, the French trollop routine got kind of old after awhile. Man-Bot and Sasquatch were neat. Hmm. I'm going to have to go find those issues now!

Yeah, it's funny to look at sales and how they've changed. Moench's run on Moon Knight long ago was in the 100 thousands (curiously outselling Batman left and right, until Moench left for DC and took over Batman's titles), and MK was a direct-sales title *(meaning only in specialty shops). So it was in half the venues and still making great numbers--for today's market at least.

I liked the idea of Alpha flight towing around a REAL Sasquatch....

Originally posted by ScarletSpider
Sorry some of us have taste, Yahman.

Oohh that was a bit cold .....

If anything you're taking a 'stabb' at you're own tastes as i generally agree with you're opinnions.

I just read issue 21... man did the art suck. Other than that and the Falcon's Ebonics, it was an alright issue.

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
I just read issue 21... man did the art suck. Other than that and the Falcon's Ebonics, it was an alright issue.

totally and utterly agreed.. I DRAW BETTER THAN THAT!

is this Scorpion?

it's smoke actually.