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"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all of mankind to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 2:3-4

What say you?

Whos knowledge..........mans or gods?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Whos knowledge..........mans or gods?

Boy your fast debbiejo Do you happen to pause and really think this out first?

I thought it out........sure I did..........mans knowledge is limited as compared to what we would call god............Sooooooo what is the truth?

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all of mankind to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 2:3-4

What say you?


Come to the table to dine with me my lambs, for the wisdom I will share will filleth over your cups and leave you wanting none other!

And smote it be...

Originally posted by debbiejo
I thought it out........sure I did..........mans knowledge is limited as compared to what we would call god............Sooooooo what is the truth?

Jesus said, "I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life; no one comes to the Father except by me."

John 14:6

According to Jesus, He is the truth.

Can he prove it??

Attempting to prove faith is such an awesome exercise in logic, it just makes me warm and fuzzy.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Can he prove it??


Honestly, my heart aches for you debbiejo and for all others that don't desire to know the truth (God) and to have a relationship with him. I am saying this sincerely! It is hard to put your faith into something that you do not visibly see or that you cannot touch with your hands! But God does love you and whatever ache I feel for you, he feels 100 times more ache for you. He wants nothing more than to be with you. I am not a big debater, so i will it at that.

Originally posted by marcu
Honestly, my heart aches for you debbiejo and for all others that don't desire to know the truth (God) and to have a relationship with him. I am saying this sincerely! It is hard to put your faith into something that you do not visibly see or that you cannot touch with your hands! But God does love you and whatever ache I feel for you, he feels 100 times more ache for you. He wants nothing more than to be with you. I am not a big debater, so i will it at that.


Thats a unique expression of your feelings there.

Originally posted by marcu
Honestly, my heart aches for you debbiejo and for all others that don't desire to know the truth (God) and to have a relationship with him. I am saying this sincerely! It is hard to put your faith into something that you do not visibly see or that you cannot touch with your hands! But God does love you and whatever ache I feel for you, he feels 100 times more ache for you. He wants nothing more than to be with you. I am not a big debater, so i will it at that. I love you..

I believe in something....honest.....and btw how do you know god is a he??

Originally posted by debbiejo
I believe in something....honest.....and btw how do you know god is a he??
What if he/she is really an it?

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Originally posted by debbiejo
Can he prove it??

Did you ask Him?

Originally posted by marcu
Honestly, my heart aches for you debbiejo and for all others that don't desire to know the truth (God) and to have a relationship with him. I am saying this sincerely! It is hard to put your faith into something that you do not visibly see or that you cannot touch with your hands! But God does love you and whatever ache I feel for you, he feels 100 times more ache for you. He wants nothing more than to be with you. I am not a big debater, so i will it at that.

So true marcu, WELCOME

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Did you ask Him?

one minute please *dials god*

Originally posted by debbiejo
one minute please *dials god*

God's in your heart Debbiejo you need look no further then that.

I knew it.........thank you very much *hangs up phone*


Gods in my heart!!!

Originally posted by debbiejo
I love you..

I believe in something....honest.....and btw how do you know god is a he??

Good question... although it matters not to me what gender God is. I suppose I call God a he because i also call him Father! A male mental picture is what i get first.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all of mankind to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 2:3-4

What say you?

There is nothing to be saved from.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all of mankind to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 2:3-4

What say you?

See the proble with this is two fold.

First...assuming all Chirstianity says is true...then we need to come to god's truth. This is flawed within itself. Its very difficult to find absolute truth in non-physical entities. Some may argue it does not exist at all. Therefore, we are searching for something that imo does not exist.

Second this statement implies that we are bad people for not bowing to the irrevocable dictatorship of one god. I must say there are many dictators in the world...and I think no man should cower in front of any of them.

God only wants 2 things? Then how come there are like 74 books in the Bible ? Why so many guidelines, if God only wants 2 things?

Cause he's a jealous god???

But that would be a sin wouldn't it??

Originally posted by debbiejo
Cause he's a jealous god???

But that would be a sin wouldn't it??

Don't forget he's wrathful also.

But wait...isn't wrath a sin?




That mean's God's a SINNER !.jawdrop

yum....wrath.

God said it was ok for King David to have all those wives and concubines...........gods a pimp....

That's a sin too...

God also said Homosexuality is wrong, didn't he ?


But Jesus makes me godroolio

If you got that involved with him to have that stuff smeared all over your face.... I submit he's real!

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all of mankind to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

1 Timothy 2:3-4

What say you?

How sweet . . . . wait do we actually need to be saved?

Originally posted by debbiejo
God said it was ok for King David to have all those wives and concubines...........gods a pimp....
That's a sin too...
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
God also said Homosexuality is wrong, didn't he ?

debbiejo, there is your proof that GOD is indeed a HE: He seems to be a homophobic and he does not have anything against a harem. and as a bonus you also know now that he is Mormon.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is nothing to be saved from.

This is what makes Jesus unique. We are our worst enemy. We need to be saved from ourselves. Only Jesus can atone for sin.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is Christ Jesus our Lord."

"For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

We ALL need Jesus.

Originally posted by Alliance
See the proble with this is two fold.

First...assuming all Chirstianity says is true...then we need to come to god's truth. This is flawed within itself. Its very difficult to find absolute truth in non-physical entities. Some may argue it does not exist at all. Therefore, we are searching for something that imo does not exist.

Second this statement implies that we are bad people for not bowing to the irrevocable dictatorship of one god. I must say there are many dictators in the world...and I think no man should cower in front of any of them.

We are bad people.

"All have sinned and fall short..."

"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is Christ Jesus the Lord."

Accept Him not reject Him.

We all will bow down before Him anyway Alliance. Why not start now while He is Savior instead of Judge?

Nothing makes God happier than when we are nice to each other. Period.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
This is what makes Jesus unique. We are our worst enemy. We need to be saved from ourselves. Only Jesus can atone for sin.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is Christ Jesus our Lord."

"For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

We ALL need Jesus.

I have no idea how you got that, from what I said.

Honestly, my heart aches for you debbiejo and for all others that don't desire to know the truth (God) and to have a relationship with him. I am saying this sincerely! It is hard to put your faith into something that you do not visibly see or that you cannot touch with your hands! But God does love you and whatever ache I feel for you, he feels 100 times more ache for you. He wants nothing more than to be with you. I am not a big debater, so i will it at that.

In my catholic days ive seen so many like you. Your just one in a million, brainwashed. I could say anything to you, it would never change your mind, or your opposition.
Most likeley you were forced into religion at birth,and at some point in your life you grew very dedicated to the religion your parents always told you was right.

Originally posted by Soleran
God's in your heart Debbiejo you need look no further then that.

Sister Maria called it faith, to beleive without no reason at all. She say you shouldn't have to be satisfied with your eyes that you should beleive in it despite anything else.

I call it walking ignorantly and blindly.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have no idea how you got that, from what I said.

Neither do I. Sometimes I go off topic. Drives my wife crazy.

Originally posted by Mindship
Nothing makes God happier than when we are nice to each other. Period.

Well, that's important... but the thread tells you what He really desires.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Neither do I. Sometimes I go off topic. Drives my wife crazy.

Fair enough...

Originally posted by Stealth Agent

Sister Maria called it faith, to beleive without no reason at all. She say you shouldn't have to be satisfied with your eyes that you should beleive in it despite anything else.

I call it walking ignorantly and blindly.

I call Evolution walking ignorantly and blindly, it's blind faith at best.

Originally posted by Alliance

Second this statement implies that we are bad people for not bowing to the irrevocable dictatorship of one god. I must say there are many dictators in the world...and I think no man should cower in front of any of them.

YES! YES! That is exactly what im talking about. God forces you into his religion. If you don't obey me you go to hell! I used to be afraid to even consider God not being real, because i was afraid of hell.
When i was a dedicated Catholic i always hated myself for some reason because i wasn't perfecting some different Catholic technique.

Originally posted by justbyfaith
We are bad people.

"All have sinned and fall short..."

"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is Christ Jesus the Lord."

Accept Him not reject Him.

We all will bow down before Him anyway Alliance. Why not start now while He is Savior instead of Judge?

This is plain wrong, people should not hate themselves, over someone elses written rules. Sinning is natural we are natural sinners, it is nothing but instinct, morals are needed though. But as long as we keep to reasonable morals we should not hate ourself.

Did I say, "Hate ourself?" No. We need to be SAVED from ourselves. We are lost and need a Savior. According to the Bible, He is the only one who can do this. Being good when we are born in sin is an effort in futility. The bible teaches that, "No one is good, no not one."

The bible is fables and fairy tales that our two thousand years old. It makes no sense that you worship it.

Whats the difference beteen the bible and greek mythology? We greek mythology comes to mind you immediatley disregard it, but yet you worship something that is very simmilar. How is it that Hinduism or Buddhism is not real, but Christianity is. Those people were born and told this is there religion and they beleive in it just as much as you beleive in christinaity.

Give me something that says Christianity is real and other similar religions are wrong.

Originally posted by Stealth Agent
...Give me something that says Christianity is real and other similar religions are wrong.

Don't ask that. He'll just quote from the bible because, to him, that is real.

Originally posted by Stealth Agent


Give me something that says Christianity is real and other similar religions are wrong.

Great guess Shaky...you are a prophet

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so they are without excuse..."

Romans 1:20

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Ok,

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so they are without excuse..."

Romans 1:20

See, I told you he would.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
See, I told you he would.

You are much more than a great singer and guitar player

A fortune teller I might add...

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
You are much more than a great singer and guitar player

A fortune teller I might add...


Money, money, give me money.

Originally posted by Stealth Agent
Give me something that says Christianity is real and other similar religions are wrong.
The bible?

Originally posted by Alliance
The bible?

Alliance are you coming around now? Praise God!!

I guess I am. I'm seeing a new light. Really, if I change, there must be a god.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Well, that's important... but the thread tells you what He really desires.

Hagendas?

Originally posted by Alliance
I guess I am. I'm seeing a new light. Really, if I change, there must be a god.

Very good Alliance! But use the big G like God not god.

oh...sorry if I offended you.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
This is what makes Jesus unique. We are our worst enemy. We need to be saved from ourselves. Only Jesus can atone for sin.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is Christ Jesus our Lord."

"For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

We ALL need Jesus.



1) I thought the DEVIL was our worst enemy?

2) I DO ACCEPT JESUS into my life.....you have NO IDEA!


Jesus HAS Entered me....he has penetrated me...literallydroolio

Ahhh..you and your savior fantasies. Do you have to show off that your boyfriend is the son of god???? HUH?!?

Just makes the rest of us feel like sh*t..

You know, all u ppl that don't believe in God and that visited this forum, i think some way or another you're just curoiuse and u just need convincing that the almighty God is the saviour and no one's gonna force you to believe but we're just gonna be praying for u but one thing y'all need to know is you can't try and understand God...our primitive little minds are too small for that. You can't be all 'i'm so logic' while reading Gods word it doesn't work like that.

There is a more appropriate thread for your comments here...

Originally posted by Stealth Agent

Whats the difference beteen the bible and greek mythology?

Are there over 300 Prophesies that have been foretold about Jesus hundreds of years before He came to earth and have been fullfilled in Greek Mythology?

Originally posted by Alliance
oh...sorry if I offended you.

You didn't offend me...but possibly Him. He is the big G.

Why??..........why would a majestic god ...........all powerful of all that ever was and would be also be offended????...............A god that would have the power to destroy all that IS forever, once and for all.......... Why would it be offended by IT'S creation? Did it make a mistake by giving it a sense of humor or thinking skills??

Originally posted by debbiejo
Why??..........why would a majestic god ...........all powerful of all that ever was and would be also be offended????...............A god that would have the power to destroy all that IS forever, once and for all.......... Why would it be offended by IT'S creation? Did it make a mistake by giving it a sense of humor or thinking skills??

I have never understood that either. If we are supposed to live like Christ, and Christ was humble, and Christ is God, then is God not humble? I use G out of respect, but I am not sure if God would care. It is difficult to reconcile the attitude and behavior of the God of the Old Testament and the attitude and behavior of Christ.

Originally posted by Regret
I have never understood that either. If we are supposed to live like Christ, and Christ was humble, and Christ is God, then is God not humble? I use G out of respect, but I am not sure if God would care. It is difficult to reconcile the attitude and behavior of the God of the Old Testament and the attitude and behavior of Christ. I don't believe that a god would be offended at all..........otherwise it wouldn't be perfect...It would have human frailties and attributes..ie....HUMAN!!...AND as we all know humans according to the Bible aren't perfect...........IS GOD IMPERFECT THEN?

Originally posted by debbiejo
I don't believe that a god would be offended at all..........otherwise it wouldn't be perfect...It would have human frailties and attributes..ie....HUMAN!!...AND as we all know humans according to the Bible aren't perfect...........IS GOD IMPERFECT THEN?

I do not believe that human "frailties and attributes" are necessarily conflicting with perfection. We are not perfect, so our view of perfection cannot be a true expression of what perfect is.

Do we really know what perfection is?

Originally posted by Regret
I do not believe that human "frailties and attributes" are necessarily conflicting with perfection. We are not perfect, so our view of perfection cannot be a true expression of what perfect is.

Do we really know what perfection is? The god of the "Books" are said to be perfect. If you don't think so, then you must rethink them..........And yes Human frailties are a form of imperfection...ie jealousy, revenge, evil, bribery (worship me or!!!)....I have my own rules that are different than what I've taught you, I can do what ever I want and not be an example.......ie...all myth god stories..........NOT A REAL ENTITY OR INTELLIGENCE.....a real intelligence would KNOW!!................It would understand, if it had any sense at all.........and this is not the god of the books.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The god of the "Books" are said to be perfect. If you don't think so, then you must rethink them..........And yes Human frailties are a form of imperfection...ie jealousy, revenge, evil, bribery (worship me or!!!)....I have my own rules that are different than what I've taught you, I can do what ever I want and not be an example.......ie...all myth god stories..........NOT A REAL ENTITY OR INTELLIGENCE.....a real intelligence would KNOW!!................It would understand, if it had any sense at all.........and this is not the god of the books.

I think that the frailties may be the imperfect human expression of attributes. Jealousy is an imperfect expression, but is the feeling that engenders it imperfect or is the response imperfect?

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
You didn't offend me...but possibly Him. He is the big G.

I was kidding.

I think you just crushed his heart. He thought he had someone.

Perhaps.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
God also said Homosexuality is wrong, didn't he ?


But Jesus makes me godroolio
May Gods forgive all of you for being such fools, and may He have mercy on your souls!

Originally posted by Alliance
See the proble with this is two fold.

First...assuming all Chirstianity says is true...

It is not what Christianity says, it is what God says in His word, The Bible, that is the Truth.

Wow, I wish I'd been able to realise that before.

Originally posted by sonnet
It is not what Christianity says, it is what God says in His word, The Bible, that is the Truth.

Don't wast your time condemning us. This forum is not for unbased bashing.

Your god is no superior to any other religions god. WHy is yours so right? Because he says so? We'll I have news for you...thats what everyone's god says.

Originally posted by sonnet
It is not what Christianity says, it is what God says in His word, The Bible, that is the Truth. Can you prove the Bible is true??

Originally posted by sonnet
It is not what Christianity says, it is what God says in His word, The Bible, that is the Truth.
We humans have a tremendous capacity for filtering, distorting or spinning any text we read, any event we observe, any truth we learn. The biblical writers and editors were no different in this respect than any of us.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Can you prove the Bible is true??

Better yet, as you stating being a renounced Christian, are you now enlightened as to prove it as untrue?

The idea that God desires means that God needs. If God needs then God is not complete. If God is not complete, then what the bibles says about God is not true.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The idea that God desires means that God needs. If God needs then God is not complete. If God is not complete, then what the bibles says about God is not true.

First of all, define complete according to 'Completeness" scripturally.

Second, for God to give should He not receive?

Third, who are we as the creature to put the creator in a box and say, "This is you?"

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
First of all, define complete according to 'Completeness" scripturally.

Second, for God to give should He not receive?

Third, who are we as the creature to put the creator in a box and say, "This is you?"

Please, you are better at finding scripture.

Nothing I said contradicts that.

I made no comments about God, I only gave my line of thought about God & desire. I showed my work...

You said in general God must be incomplete because he desires us. Well, does not Buddah teach that man can be complete and attain perfection within? Does this mean we no longer can desire to be loved or seek others becasue we reach something or because God is who He said He is? How does God desiring to be loved by His creation make Him something other than who He says He is?

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
You said in general God must be incomplete because he desires us. Well, does not Buddah teach that man can be complete and attain perfection within? Does this mean we no longer can desire to be loved or seek others becasue we reach something or because God is who He said He is? How does God desiring to be loved by His creation make Him something other than who He says He is?

It is only a contradiction in the bible. In the OT it describes God as something that cannot be understood. God does not need is the only logical conclusion that can be made in this case.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is only a contradiction in the bible. In the OT it describes God as something that cannot be understood. God does not need is the only logical conclusion that can be made in this case.

Thank you. Human reasoning...always get's us in trouble Shaky.
Thanks for sharing this reasoning.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Thank you. Human reasoning...always get's us in trouble Shaky.
Thanks for sharing this reasoning.

There is no other type of reasoning, even your faith was made by man. But remember, man is god.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no other type of reasoning, even your faith was made by man. But remember, man is god.

Ok, lets reason together. My faith was not "made by man" it was
"given to man" by inspiration from God. Man is created therefore can't be the Alpha, Omega, beginning and end as God. Man is not improving in kindness and gentleness and the attributes as one TRIES to attain but is falling, detestible and in great need of being "born again" of the Spirit of God to a new creation.

There, more reasoning and less scripture.

Just this one time...

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Ok, lets reason together. My faith was not "made by man" it was
"given to man" by inspiration from God. Man is created therefore can't be the Alpha, Omega, beginning and end as God. Man is not improving in kindness and gentleness and the attributes as one TRIES to attain but is falling, detestible and in great need of being "born again" of the Spirit of God to a new creation.

There, more reasoning and less scripture.

Just this one time...

Thank you.

Your logic is circular, but I understand. You believe what you believe because that is what you believe.

Have a nice. I have to go.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Thank you.

Your logic is circular, but I understand. You believe what you believe because that is what you believe.

Have a nice. I have to go.



I was born right the first time.

Originally posted by marcu
Honestly, my heart aches for you debbiejo and for all others that don't desire to know the truth (God) and to have a relationship with him. I am saying this sincerely! It is hard to put your faith into something that you do not visibly see or that you cannot touch with your hands! But God does love you and whatever ache I feel for you, he feels 100 times more ache for you. He wants nothing more than to be with you. I am not a big debater, so i will it at that.

Great answer.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Are there over 300 Prophesies that have been foretold about Jesus hundreds of years before He came to earth and have been fullfilled in Greek Mythology?

No. Just thousands and thousands and thousands of prophesies told by Oracles and priest to the Greek Pantheon about everything and anything. Did they for tell Jesus? Not to my knowledge, but we only have Christianities claims about the Christian prophesies. Meanwhile in Greek myth we can read about prophesies to do with wars and people and disasters that all actually happened... does that mean they are true? No. Though maybe they are. But far more likely people just interpreted something an Oracle said later (OMZG! The Oracle said the two sons shalt twain twixt Zeus' bosom... clearly they are talking about the Peloponnese war!) or just made them up all together later. To my knowledge there is no proof the same is not true for Christianity.



And we only have mans word God gave it to us. And I know plenty of people who are not born again who are not failing in achieving kindness and gentleness - they have already succeeded, and are in fact far better at presenting such fruits as many "born again" Christians are. That patronising "sure, man tries, but never succeeds without God" is a load of tosh. I can't believe so many people have so little respect for the potential of our species. Or by extension God. How could God make such hopeless failures eh? Everyone of us apparently leaving the shop faulty and unable to really succeed without a Godly upgrade. Bah!