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this is a replay of the battle in Rots where dooku fights obi and ani except they are both from CW and grievous is added

Dooku is taken down by Anakin.
Grievous is taken down by Obi-Wan.

It would be easy to kill grievous, just take his hands off. plus he's only trained to the skill of padawan by dooku.

Dooku is harder and could possibly kill or 'de-limb' obi-wan or anakin.

Tough choice but obi and ani would win, just!

anakin and obi would win pretty easily. obi-wan took out rots grievous so he could take out cw grievous and anikan took out rots dooku so he could take cw dooku to

u notice they are from Clone Wars.......

Well, lets see... Grievous was amazing in the Clone Wars. Still, I'm sure Kenobi would be able to take him out while Anakin deals with Dooku. But if Kenobi fights Dooku and Anakin fights Grievous then Dooku pwns Kenobi and then Grievous and Dooku together own Anakin. So it depends on who fights who.

If Dooku pisses Anakin off, I could see Anakin taking Dooku.

Meanwhile, Kenobi takes Grievous...

No. Dooku was a match for the duo in ROTS and if you add in GG it will be overkill. Dooku could take either in a one on one battle and im fairly confident that GG would beat Anakin. This is because he doesnt have the same defences that Kenobi had. But Dooku and GG win.

Yeah, I see Kenobi getting choked and tossed aside and Anakin getting doubled.

Or Kenobi doesn't have to go on the offensive and be caught off guard and the fight between Dooku and Obi Wan takes a long time.

It wouldn't matter, either way Dooku'd pwn Obi-Wan with the Force.

Dooku and Grievous would take it for the reasons mentioned above:
If Dooku doesn't say anything to piss off Anakin, then Anakin wouldn't be able to beat him.
The level of Grievous' training was never established (and also irrelevent, as he was not Force Sensitive) however, Grievous in CW was trained enough to fight Five Jedi at once, including two Jedi Masters who were on the Council. Obi-Wan was only able to beat Grievous in RotS because Grievous was damaged and had slower reactions. If he was in top form, as he was in CW, he would butcher Obi-Wan with relative ease. Grievous would definitely butcher Anakin, and we all know that Dooku can best Obi-Wan both with the Force and with a lightsaber.

except Anakin is ALREADY a match for Dooku and he realizes it. And OBi-wan>Grievous in all forms. So does Anakin

obiwan barely beat grievous when grievous was wounded from mace windu, but clone wars grievous was fine not injurred. and anakin barely beat dooku, because dooku didn't want war anymore, he only wanted to go to court, the courts were controlled by palpatine, so palpatine would let him go, but he didn't

Originally posted by Legion_of_Maul
obiwan barely beat grievous when grievous was wounded from mace windu, but clone wars grievous was fine not injurred. and anakin barely beat dooku, because dooku didn't want war anymore, he only wanted to go to court, the courts were controlled by palpatine, so palpatine would let him go, but he didn't

That makes absolutely no sense. . .

yeah, i had to go eat i didn't finish it, but now i don't care.

The General and the Sith win...Dooku alone almost took it, Add in Grievous and they win quite easily. Grievous might be able to take Anakin, it would at least be a long fight while Dooku pwns Obi-Wan. OR Dooku fries Anakin with lightening (who has never been shown the block it) while Grievous holds Obi-Wan off. Then Dooku pwns Obi-Wan.

obiwan barely beat grievous when grievous was wounded from mace windu, but clone wars grievous was fine not injurred. anakin barely beat dooku, because dooku didn't want war anymore, he only wanted to go to court, the courts were controlled by palpatine he knew that sids was planning to take anakin as his new apprentice.

Mace believed Obi-wan to be capable of taking Grievous at any time. And Dooku fought seriously against Anakin, period

Anakin, being arrogant always is, will charge toward Dooku while Obi-Wan take on Grevious. Dooku force lightning or force pushes Anakin out of the way and helps Grevious pwn Obi-Wan. Then the duo proceed to pwn Anakin.

This is RotS Anakin, actually. Last time he charged towards Dooku, Dooku got sent flying several meters back and, one minute later, was left without a head.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
except Anakin is ALREADY a match for Dooku and he realizes it. Anakin won his fight with Dooku through luck, not skill, there is nothing to suggest that he would be able to do so again.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mace believed Obi-wan to be capable of taking Grievous at any time.
I don't deny that Obi-Wan was the best choice of the Jedi to confront Grievous, Mace was correct about that. However, Mace also knew that he had damaged Grievous (He would have seen the result of his Force Crush with his own eyes) As pointed out already, Obi-Wan barely beat Grievous when Grievous was damaged. If Grievous was not damaged, and fighting as he was when he took on Ki-Adi, Shaak Ti, Aayla and the other Jedi, then I think his speed would have overcome Obi-Wan's defences with little difficulty.

Actually, Obi-Wan didn't have that much trouble with General Grievous in a lightsaber fight. Hell, it lasted like 30 seconds . . . with Obi-Wan eventually removing the General's two lightsaber hands and Force pushing him into a wall.

Originally posted by Escape81
Actually, Obi-Wan didn't have that much trouble with General Grievous in a lightsaber fight. Hell, it lasted like 30 seconds . . . with Obi-Wan eventually removing the General's two lightsaber hands and Force pushing him into a wall.
The novelization of RotS said that when Grievous' attack speed reached a certain speed, it overcame Obi-Wan's ability to actively block. He let the first saber passed his guard in order to sever the lightsaber. In the movie, he severed the hand instead of the saber, but the technique was still the same. Essentially, the first hand, he made Grievous sever himself. (which Grievous was totally surprized about) The second hand was done intentionally by Obi-Wan.
The speed of the saber rotations in RotS is audibly slower than in CW (and Grievous tends to be hunched over in RotS, rather than standing tall as he did in CW. Standing tall in RotS triggered another spasm of coughing) so if that slower speed was still able to overcome Obi-Wan's defence (even though he was able to use it as an advantage) then the much faster speed from CW would most likely overcome his defence too fast for him to use as an advantage.
As for the Force push, he was right up close to Obi-Wan when that happened, and in CW, he showed the ability to dodge Force blasts when he had sufficient space between him and the Jedi.

No, I don't deny that Obi-Wan would have trouble with Grievous as of CW - but not of RotS. The only time Obi-Wan was in real danger was when he engaged Grievous in melee combat. Then he royally got his ass kicked. But as for saber combat? Nah.

Originally posted by Escape81
No, I don't deny that Obi-Wan would have trouble with Grievous as of CW - but not of RotS.
But the listing is for CW Grievous, not RotS Grievous.

Originally posted by Escape81
The only time Obi-Wan was in real danger was when he engaged Grievous in melee combat. Then he royally got his ass kicked. But as for saber combat? Nah.
The novelisation still states that Grievous was able to speed up the rotation of his sabers (or more accurately their strike rate) to a point where Obi-Wan could not actively block his sabers and they broke through his defence. On the DVD, it is possible to see that that is how Grievous' first hand is severed. Hand to hand agaisnt Grievous, it's no wonder that Grievous was the stronger, he did afterall have droid strength, compared to Obi-Wan's flesh and blood. Back to the sabers though, I think had Grievous not been damaged by Mace's Force crush, and able to a) rotate his sabers as fast as he did in CW b) toss his sabers from hand to foot and duel while performing handstands as he did in CW and c) use his feet to whip someone face first into the floor as he did in CW, then even Obi-Wan (who is my favorite character) would be unable to defend against such overwhelming abilities.

Originally posted by Escape81
No, I don't deny that Obi-Wan would have trouble with Grievous as of CW - but not of RotS. The only time Obi-Wan was in real danger was when he engaged Grievous in melee combat. Then he royally got his ass kicked. But as for saber combat? Nah.

Amen to that. I actually thought Grievous posed more of a threat to Kenobi with only two arms...

Mace knew Obi-wan had the best chance of beating Grievous even in a damaged state and Obi-wan walked over Grievous in melee combat.

And what luck with Dooku? Oh that's right...he outmuscled and outdueled him. Nice

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mace knew Obi-wan had the best chance of beating Grievous even in a damaged state
Yes. And in CW, Grievous was not damaged. The thread title says CW Grievous, not RotS Grievous. First you thought Luke was shot in his organic hand, now you can't read that... Might be time for an eye test.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And what luck with Dooku? Oh that's right...he outmuscled and outdueled him. Nice
He didn't outduel him, he never cut Dooku's hands off while they were duelling. He only outmuscled him, and that was a case of luck (aka plot necessity)

No, actually Grievous was damaged from moment one. Mace just made it worse. And Mace thought Obi-wan could take Grievous period. And Luke's shot in his organic hand, watch rOTJ again

Oooh, sorry, nope, outmuscling a guy is being 'better' than him...it's using your advantage to his disadvantage. It's smart fighting. Can your mind grasp these concepts?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, actually Grievous was damaged from moment one. Mace just made it worse.
According to what?
Name your source. I dare you.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Luke's shot in his organic hand, watch rOTJ again
Have you watched RotJ again? Are you ready to admit that you are wrong?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oooh, sorry, nope, outmuscling a guy is being 'better' than him...
No it's not. Not when you're supposed to be duelling. You have a hard time accepting what that mean.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's smart fighting. Can your mind grasp these concepts?
'Smart fighting'??!! I've been studying fencing and martial arts longer than you've been alive. Can your mind not grasp that concept? You do not (and never will) know more about fencing or martial arts than I do.

Unknown Soldier: The story of General Grievous.

*Watches ROTJ* Hand has flesh on it, Luke cries in pain...nope, organic

And sorry, when killing a man you don't fight fair. It has nothing to do with fencing or dueling, ikt has everything to do with winning or killing. anakin won because he was better and used what he had to counter Dooku's disadvantages. This makes him better

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Unknown Soldier: The story of General Grievous.
An EU source. Non Canon. Try again.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
*Watches ROTJ* Hand has flesh on it, Luke cries in pain...nope, organic
I don't think you understand. I suggest you read my answers to your questions before you carry on embarrassing yourself. Luke's artificial hand was covered in synthetic flesh.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And sorry, when killing a man you don't fight fair.
And how many fights to the death have you been in? Do you not understand that I know more about fencing and martial arts than you ever will?

Dooku was an arrogant elitist. He duelled with a saber, not physical strength, and expected Anakin to do the same.

Well whoopie freaking doo for Dooku! Ever see Raiders of the lost Ark? I'm sure sword boy expected Indy to fight him hand to hand or sword to sword...instead Indy blew him away. Get over it: Fights aren't fair and if you engage a real, genuine swordfight expecting it to be, you're ****ed

Mace busting Grievous's lungs is non canon then. Hypocritical garbage from you again.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well whoopie freaking doo for Dooku! Ever see Raiders of the lost Ark? I'm sure sword boy expected Indy to fight him hand to hand or sword to sword...instead Indy blew him away. Get over it: Fights aren't fair and if you engage a real, genuine swordfight expecting it to be, you're ****ed

Mace busting Grievous's lungs is non canon then. Hypocritical garbage from you again.

I musty agree with WhiteSnake here. Dooku wasn't being very fair choking Kenobi and kicking aside Skywalker (which was very cool). The fact is that Anakin caught Tyranus in a moment of vulnerability. Were it not for his arrogance the Count would've eventually carried out his plans.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well whoopie freaking doo for Dooku! Ever see Raiders of the lost Ark? I'm sure sword boy expected Indy to fight him hand to hand or sword to sword...instead Indy blew him away.
And this has what to do with Star Wars?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Fights aren't fair and if you engage a real, genuine swordfight expecting it to be, you're ****ed
And you've been in how many real, genuine swordfights to the death? You've been studying fencing for how long was it again? When're you going to get it through your skull that I know more about fencing than you ever will?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mace busting Grievous's lungs is non canon then. Hypocritical garbage from you again.
Clone Wars is canon, and so are the events that took place during them, so the only garbage, is what you're typing.

Point is: In real fights, there aren't rules.

and fencing is a controlled sport...how many true, actual sword fights have you been in?

Clone Wars isn't canon, no more than Obsession or Labyrinth of Evil. Sorry

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Point is: In real fights, there aren't rules.
There always rules, even if they are unspoken ones.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
and fencing is a controlled sport...how many true, actual sword fights have you been in?
I've never been in a single actual sword fight, because this isn't the Middle Ages, and people don't carry swords around with them on a day to day basis. I have however been in a number of actual fights, one being where a group of chavs made the mistake of thinking they could mug me. One can't use his arm anymore, and the other still walks with a limp. How many people have you permantly maimed?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Clone Wars isn't canon, no more than Obsession or Labyrinth of Evil. Sorry
Sorry, but Clone Wars is canon. That has already been stated and accepted on this forum, reason being, that it is closer to a movie than a book or comic (it shows exactly what is going on, not requiring a reader's imagination) Also, the events in CW lead directly into the events of RotS, and in the commentary for CW, one of the artists says that RotS is 'how his cartoon finishes'.
I haven't read LOE, but does it explain in it why Anakin's artificial arm and hand are different in RotS to AotC? CW does.

Give me a break...name ONE rule in a true, honest fight to the death...

No duels to the death? Ok, then..and didn't you give them a chance to defend themselves? You went for his arm? Cowardly. Sorry, but noone follows a dueling code in real fights

Find me one place of LFL calling Clone Wars G-canon. Wait! You can't

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No duels to the death? Ok, then..and didn't you give them a chance to defend themselves? You went for his arm? Cowardly. Sorry, but noone follows a dueling code in real fights
Re read what I wrote. I did not say it was a duel. It was a hand oto hand fight that occured when a group of chavs tried to mug me. The only cowards, where the chavs for thinking four on one was fair odds. Two of them learned a permanant lesson in manners, the other two ran off.

Also, you still haven't grasped the fact that I know more about the subject than you do. Stop embarassing yourself

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Find me one place of LFL calling Clone Wars G-canon. Wait! You can't
It's accepted as canon on this forum, so that's good enough for me, and it'll be good enough for you. Answer the question I asked about LOE and Anakin's arm.

Meaning, what to this conversation? That's right, nothing.

It's not canon. Only the films are canon. Hypocrite

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Meaning, what to this conversation? That's right, nothing.

Meaning, I know more about fencing and martial arts than you do, therefore, I can analyse a fightscene better than you can.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's not canon. Only the films are canon. Hypocrite
How am I a hypocrite? What have I said that was hypocritical? Do you even understand what the word means?

I asked you a questions, and you will answer it.
Does LOE explain why Anakin's artificial arm is different in RotS to AotC?

As I said before, CW is accepted as canon on this forum. If you can't accept that, then stop debating.

Actually, you know nothing about real fighting, If you did, you'd realize there aren't rules when you fight for real


And I don't care. CW explains a lot of things but by LFL's OFFICIAL POLICY, it's not canon.

Don't worry Vious, LightSnake is an idiot.

Love to see you back that up, Dajjy

I don't know who the hell you think you are Vious, but you're in no position to argue against LFL's canon policy. George Lucas is the highest form of canon. Like it or not. The policy remains that way. So, all of your arguments revolving the Dooku vs. Anakin issue are moot, worthless, and completely irrelevent.

Why? Because you think you're in a position to argue against a concrete policy. You're not. No one here is. Lucas is the final word. End of story.

Originally posted by Lord Kadaj
Don't worry Vious, LightSnake is an idiot.
He is indeed.

Translation: wAAAAH! I can't beat him! So I'll insult! Everyone but me is wrong! WAAAH! I am Vious! So that means Lucas must bow to me!

Originally posted by Escape81
I don't know who the hell you think you are Vious, but you're in no position to argue against LFL's canon policy. George Lucas is the highest form of canon. Like it or not. The policy remains that way. So, all of your arguments revolving the Dooku vs. Anakin issue are moot, worthless, and completely irrelevent.

Why? Because you think you're in a position to argue against a concrete policy. You're not. No one here is. Lucas is the final word. End of story.
It would appear, that I'm one of the few people here who can actually see the truth as it is, rather than what a fanboy wants it to be.
As I said to LS already: CW is accepted as canon on this forum. It's in enough of the threads, so I don't see how he (or you) can deny that.
I've already pointed out that the movies are the highest form of canon, even over Lucas' 'final word', given SW evidence that proves this, and used an entirely seperate example of how a finished piece of artwork means more than it's creator's intentions when making it. People seem to have a problem with that, but I do not see why. I've argued plenty of points other than Dooku Vs Anakin, that is just the one that has been the most prevelent to the discussions.

Anyone can argue against policy if they can back up their argument with evidence, and I have done that. Just because people do not want to accept that (because it forces them to reevaluate their ideas) that does not make my points wrong.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Translation: wAAAAH! I can't beat him! So I'll insult! Everyone but me is wrong! WAAAH! I am Vious! So that means Lucas must bow to me!
Insult? If you think I've insulted you, then you need to grow a thicker skin. You're the one getting your boxers in a bunch because you can't beat me. Remember how you tried to argue that Luke wasn't shot in his artificial hand in RotJ? What was the outcome of that? The result of all your posturing and certainty? You were wrong. You were wrong then, and you are wrong now. You refuse to answer questions that prove you wrong, and you don't back your arguments with valid facts. When faced with facts, you back down. I never said Lucas must bow to me, all I've pointed out, is that (as with any artist) the finished work means more than the intentions of the person who created it.

Whine, whine, whine...No, actually, the intentions of the person who created it kinda reflect what happened. End of story. If Lucas says it's so, that's how it happened.

And calling someone an idiot isn't an insult? You don't live on the same level as we do, do you?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, actually, the intentions of the person who created it kinda reflect what happened. End of story. If Lucas says it's so, that's how it happened.
No, they don't. Here's the non-SW example I gave:
I intended to paint a photo-realistic scene of Mustafar and mount lightsabers on it. This was a photoshopped mockup of how I wanted the picture to turn out:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/DefenderoftheInnocent/concept.jpg
However, this, is how the final painting turned out:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/DefenderoftheInnocent/ea209fd5.jpg
As you can see, the landscape is not photo-realistic, and the effect of the lightsaber blades did not turn out as sharp as I wanted.
Now. It doesn't matter how much I say that I intended to do a photo-realistic painting, because nothing can change the fact that the finished piece is not photo-reaslistic. Therefore, my (or any artists) intentions are irrelevent compared to the evidence of the final artwork (or movie)

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And calling someone an idiot isn't an insult?
I never called you an idiot. Someone else called you an idiot and I agreed with them.

so, you called me an idiot, thanks.

And that means nothing. Nothing to do with, y'know, story

Originally posted by Lightsnake
so, you called me an idiot, thanks.
No, I agreed with the person who called you an idiot. You're not very good at telling the difference between things are you.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And that means nothing. Nothing to do with, y'know, story
How do you figure? I intended to do something a certain way. The end result was not what I intended. No matter how much I talk about what I'd intended to do, nothing will change the fact that the final piece was not as I originally intended it to be.
What part of that do you disagree with?

...agreeing with someone calling me an idiot is the same thing as calling me an idiot yourself. The feeling is still there. The wording's just different.

Great. Nice example. Nope, no storyline. No movie, no motion picture, no explanation and interpretation of scenes and you use a visual example.

Try again

Originally posted by Lightsnake
...agreeing with someone calling me an idiot is the same thing as calling me an idiot yourself.
No it's not.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Great. Nice example. Nope, no storyline. No movie, no motion picture, no explanation and interpretation of scenes and you use a visual example.

Try again
Are you serious? Ever heard the expression "A picture's worth a thousand words"? It doesn't matter if it's a painting, a movie, a sculpture or even a pencil doodle on a napkin. The opinion of any artist (whatever their chosen medium may be) is not as relevent as the evidence of the finished artwork.
Let's try again.
I intended to paint a photorealistic painting of Mustafar.
Is the end result photorealistic, yes or no?

"Yeah, he is an idiot!" Is what you basically said...you called me an idiot.


Is your picture a motion picture? No? why are you wasting my time with bullshit comparisons then?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
"Yeah, he is an idiot!" Is what you basically said...you called me an idiot.
That is not what I said though. Someone said you were an idiot. My responce was: Yes, he is.

Originally posted by Lightsnake

I already pointed out that t doesn't matter what medium the artist works in! All that matters, is that nothing they can say, can change the final piece, or how it is viewed by others. Do you understand? Respond directly do you understand to the point I made in this post. Not do you agree, not do you think something else, do you understand the point I have just clarified?

Meaning you called me an idiot. Am I or am I not an idiot? he called me one, you agreed, your meaning is clear. Idiot.

screw that, the writer and director has grounds to say EXACTLY what his movie means.

Can we please get back on topic?
Im going to say my points once and ill try not to be too biased in Dookus favor. Dooku and GG win because of these reasons.
-Dooku alone was more than a match for Kenobi and he almost bet Anakin. He would have beaten Anakin had he not been so tired. So my point is if GG was there helping it would be a one on one match vs Anakin. So the Count wouldnt be tired in his fight with Anakin which means that he would win.
-Dooku can wtf pwn Kenobi
-It would be a close match between CW GG and Kenobi but GG would win. GGs reflexes are just too fast and too accurate. He would analyse Kenobis fighting style to fight with maximum efficiency. And GG took on 5 jedi masters and won. Kenobi is not better than 5 jedi masters so he will lose as well.
-IMO GG would beat Anakin. Anakin would simply get overwhelmed with all the blades coming at him.

So Dooku beats Kenobi and GG beats Anakin. If we swap the fighters around you will get a far closer battle but the sith still win.

If Dooku can "defeat" General Grievous - and especially if Obi-Wan can - then Anakin sure as hell beats him. Don't feed me that crap, trying to downplay Anakin. According to you, Dooku can WTFpwn Grievous, but Anakin can't take him?

Don't feed me that bull. Dooku and Anakin are very close in skills and abilities with Anakin being the more powerful of the two. Kenobi may not win against CW Grievous - and that's when Anakin would go down.

But Anakin being unable to defeat Grievous? This is when your fanboyism disgusts me. Downplaying other characters so your favorite gets to shine? Don't do it.

Im serious. Kenobi bet him because his style is made to block. This is the only way he could cope with all the sabers coming at him. Dooku can beat him because he is the master and has taught GG. It has also been shown in the cartoon. However there is nothing to show that Anakin could beat GG.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im serious. Kenobi bet him because his style is made to block. This is the only way he could cope with all the sabers coming at him. Dooku can beat him because he is the master and has taught GG. It has also been shown in the cartoon. However there is nothing to show that Anakin could beat GG.

Kenobi beat him fairly easily in a lightsaber duel. As would Mace, Anakin, or Yoda - who are all three superior to him in lightsaber abilities. Secondly, combined with Anakin's raw command over the Force and his own devastating lightsaber ability - he'd be able to own Grievous in a duel just as easily as Kenobi.

Like I said. If Dooku and Kenobi can beat Grievous, Anakin can sure as hell do it too.

No. Anakins syle isnt effective aganist Greivous like Dookus or Kenobis is.

Djem So is a natural counter to Grievous's styles, of course it's effective against him...and Anakin can just use the force

Obi-Wan managed to Force Push Grievous into a wall. Anakin would do the same.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Djem So is a natural counter to Grievous's styles

How? Can you please explain.

Obi-Wan did well against him because a) Greivous was not at his full potential because of Mace's force crush b) he has mastered Soresu, the defencive form. And Dooku can beat him because of his style and the fact that he is a master. It is also shown in the cartoon that Dooku can win. However I see nop evidence anywhere to show that Anakin can win. He doesnt have the skill or experience to block all 4 sabers. Also GG can just alter his stance to fight more effectively.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
How? Can you please explain.

Obi-Wan did well against him because a) Greivous was not at his full potential because of Mace's force crush b) he has mastered Soresu, the defencive form. And Dooku can beat him because of his style and the fact that he is a master. It is also shown in the cartoon that Dooku can win. However I see nop evidence anywhere to show that Anakin can win. He doesnt have the skill or experience to block all 4 sabers. Also GG can just alter his stance to fight more effectively.

A) You have no proof that Grievous was weakened in any way shape or form in Revenge of the Sith.

B) Anakin owned Dooku. Obi-Wan owned Grievous with a simple Force Push. What's to stop Anakin from using the Force Push?

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
A) You have no proof that Grievous was weakened in any way shape or form in Revenge of the Sith.

Dont talk shit. Greivous didnt fight nearly as well as he used to since he got force crushed by Mace. A physical example in the movies is his coughing. GG took on 5 jedi masters and won. I find it hard to beleive that he wouldnt be able to defeat Anakin as well.



For starters Anakin didnt own Dooku. But that is hardly relevant to this argument. And Obi-Wans force push didnt win him the battle. In fact it did very little damage to Greivous. In the end Kenobi was disarmed and had to use a blaster to win. So Anakin using a force push means absolutley nothing. Just face it. Anakin doesnt have the skill to beat greivous.

Do we have any source except the CW which explains that Grievous was much better before? Cause the CW has a tendence to OVERPOWER characters....

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Dont talk shit. Greivous didnt fight nearly as well as he used to since he got force crushed by Mace. A physical example in the movies is his coughing. GG took on 5 jedi masters and won. I find it hard to beleive that he wouldnt be able to defeat Anakin as well.



For starters Anakin didnt own Dooku. But that is hardly relevant to this argument. And Obi-Wans force push didnt win him the battle. In fact it did very little damage to Greivous. In the end Kenobi was disarmed and had to use a blaster to win. So Anakin using a force push means absolutley nothing. Just face it. Anakin doesnt have the skill to beat greivous.

Well first off Obi-Wan's Force Push managed to disarm Grievous of his lightsabers. Yeah that is a pointless move.

Second you have no idea what you are talking about. Grievous had all three elements Count Dooku told him he needed on his side. Those Jedi never heard or seen Grievous and just like that he crushed a Padawan with ease then he sneaks around a bit and separates them.

Dooku said "you need fear, surprise, and intemdation on your side if you are to beat the best of the Jedi for if any one of these should be lacking it would be best for you to run."

So what? Darth Vader had a breathing problem and that didn't change anything. General Grievous's cough could be called Darth Vader's breathing.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Well first off Obi-Wan's Force Push managed to disarm Grievous of his lightsabers. Yeah that is a pointless move.

Second you have no idea what you are talking about. Grievous had all three elements Count Dooku told him he needed on his side. Those Jedi never heard or seen Grievous and just like that he crushed a Padawan with ease then he sneaks around a bit and separates them.

Dooku said "you need fear, surprise, and intemdation on your side if you are to beat the best of the Jedi for if any one of these should be lacking it would be best for you to run."

So what? Darth Vader had a breathing problem and that didn't change anything. General Grievous's cough could be called Darth Vader's breathing.

Your missing the point. GG was nowhere near his full potential in ROTS. Not like in the CW where he was able to defeat 5 jedi masters. You said that he was able to sneak up and seperate them. That is fair enough but it doesnt change the fact he still won. And his coughing is showing you that something did happen before ROTS which had diminished his abilities. It is the same with Vaders breathing. It symbolises the fact he is mostly machine and nowhere near as good as he could have been because of it.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Your missing the point. GG was nowhere near his full potential in ROTS. Not like in the CW where he was able to defeat 5 jedi masters. You said that he was able to sneak up and seperate them. That is fair enough but it doesnt change the fact he still won. And his coughing is showing you that something did happen before ROTS which had diminished his abilities. It is the same with Vaders breathing. It symbolises the fact he is mostly machine and nowhere near as good as he could have been because of it.

Again Dooku said that Grievous CANNOT defeat Obi-Wan in a straight up fight.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Again Dooku said that Grievous CANNOT defeat Obi-Wan in a straight up fight.

When does he say this? In ROTS GG would have won had Kenobi not picked up that blaster. In CW GG is far stronger. Logically this would mean that in CW GG would beat Kenobi.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
When does he say this? In ROTS GG would have won had Kenobi not picked up that blaster. In CW GG is far stronger. Logically this would mean that in CW GG would beat Kenobi.

In LOE. And Grievous would have won if Kenobi didn't pick up that blaster because they were both without lightsabers and yet even unarmed Kenobi gave chased and Grievous with weapons fled.

Dooku says in LOE and CW that Grievous CANNOT defeat the best of the Jedi.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
In LOE. And Grievous would have won if Kenobi didn't pick up that blaster because they were both without lightsabers and yet even unarmed Kenobi gave chased and Grievous with weapons fled.

Dooku says in LOE and CW that Grievous CANNOT defeat the best of the Jedi.

Fair enough. Yet Dooku took on 5 jedi masters, who could easily be classed as the best of the jedi and won. He lost to Kenobi AFTER CW which throws that argument out the window and would beat Anakin as well because Anakin is not on the level of 5 jedi masters.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Fair enough. Yet Dooku took on 5 jedi masters, who could easily be classed as the best of the jedi and won. He lost to Kenobi AFTER CW which throws that argument out the window and would beat Anakin as well because Anakin is not on the level of 5 jedi masters.

Dooku took on 5 Jedi Masters? I guess you mean Grievous. And why don't you pay attention.

Dooku told Grievous in LOE and CW that in order to beat the best of the Jedi he would need surprise, fear, and intimidation for if any one of these elements are lacking it would be best for him to flee. When you are sacred you don't fight your best now do you.

And Obi-Wan and Anakin would be considered the top 5 Jedi of the PT era. Under Yoda and maybe Mace and that would be it.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
Dooku took on 5 Jedi Masters? I guess you mean Grievous.

Whoops sorry. My mistake.



True. But that would not be running because you would lose. It is more of a tactical retreat. There is nothing to say GG still wouldnt win. Look at the fight between Sids and Yoda. Sids tried running, but in the fight he still managed to beat yoda.



OK. But Kenobi barely managed to beat Greivous in ROTS. And in ROTS GG wasnt able to fight as good as he could in CW. And in this thread it is CW greivous. So this would mean that Greivous would win. And Anakin simply does not have the skill to best Greivous. He isnt as good as the 5 jedi masters GG was able to beat. And his saber style isnt effective against the 4 sabers coming at him like Kenobis is.

True. But that would not be running because you would lose. It is more of a tactical retreat. There is nothing to say GG still wouldnt win. Look at the fight between Sids and Yoda. Sids tried running, but in the fight he still managed to beat yod.

You can't compare those two fights. Palpatine and Yoda fought to a stand still but Yoda had no choice but to flee. Palpatine tried to flee because he knew that Yoda could defeat him.

Grievous fled because he knew he was beaten.

OK. But Kenobi barely managed to beat kenobi in ROTS. And in ROTS GG wasnt able to fight as good as he could in CW. And in this thread it is CW greivous. So this would mean that Greivous would win. And Anakin simply does not have the skill to best Greivous. He isnt as good as the 5 jedi masters GG was able to beat. And his saber style isnt effective against the 4 sabers coming at him like Kenobis is.

I guess you mean Obi-Wan barely defeated Grievous. Unarmed yes but in lightsaber combat he was WTFpwning Grievous. Then again Grievous is basically a droid so he had the edge in that combat since Obi-Wan was punching metal.

And Anakin would just use Force Push. Obi-Wan did it and because of that Grievous was unarmed.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
You can't compare those two fights. Palpatine and Yoda fought to a stand still but Yoda had no choice but to flee. Palpatine tried to flee because he knew that Yoda could defeat him.

Grievous fled because he knew he was beaten.

Greivous did not flee because he was beaten. Greivous: 'Back away'. 'I will deal with this jedi slime myself'. Yhis clearly shows that GG had every intention to fight and kill Obi-Wan.



Why was Kenobi unarmed? Could it be that GG disarmed him?? Face it, if it wasnt for the blaster on the ground Kenobi would be dead.



Once again force push hardly won Kenobi the fight.

Greivous did not flee because he was beaten. Greivous: 'Back away'. 'I will deal with this jedi slime myself'. Yhis clearly shows that GG had every intention to fight and kill Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan Force Pushed him and thus Grievous became unarmed. And so Grievous fled knowing he was defeated.

Why was Kenobi unarmed? Could it be that GG disarmed him?? Face it, if it wasnt for the blaster on the ground Kenobi would be dead.

Have you watched ROTS? Kenobi dropped it chasing the fleeing Grievous. And face it Grievous was the one that had the blaster and Obi-Wan managed to steal it.

Once again force push hardly won Kenobi the fight.

Once again it made Grievous unarmed and because of that he had to flee.

For the love of God, quit trying to downplay Anakin! Grievous could pwn almost anyone in the PT in a fistfight, but do you think that it's gonna happen?

Anakin Skywalker > Obi-Wan Kenobi in ability.
Anakin Skywalker = or > Count Dooku in lightsaber ability.

Add to the fact that Skywalker's raw power and connection of the Force is a step or two above these guys (and a long shot above Grievous's own), and that he - unlike Dooku and Obi-Wan - actually gets stronger as a fight progresses, you have an entity that General Grievous cannot beat.

Originally posted by Escape81
For the love of God, quit trying to downplay Anakin! Grievous could pwn almost anyone in the PT in a fistfight, but do you think that it's gonna happen?

Anakin Skywalker > Obi-Wan Kenobi in ability.
Anakin Skywalker = or > Count Dooku in lightsaber ability.

Add to the fact that Skywalker's raw power and connection of the Force is a step or two above these guys (and a long shot above Grievous's own), and that he - unlike Dooku and Obi-Wan - actually gets stronger as a fight progresses, you have an entity that General Grievous cannot beat.

Greivous wont tire in a fight like Dooku did. He is a robot for god sake!!!!. Anakin has not shown us anything that would prove he could block 4 sabers coming at him at once. And the fact that Anakin has the force also means little. All jedi have the force but that doesnt stop GG from killing them.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Greivous wont tire in a fight like Dooku did. He is a robot for god sake!!!!. Anakin has not shown us anything that would prove he could block 4 sabers coming at him at once. And the fact that Anakin has the force also means little. All jedi have the force but that doesnt stop GG from killing them.

You amaze me.

General Grievous may not tire. I never said he would. My point is that he won't get stronger - like Anakin does.

a) Obi-Wan managed to stop all of Grievous's lightsabers. Anakin, who is stronger and has a much better connection to the Force would be able to do the same.

b) Just because one (Anakin) specializes in offense, doesn't mean that he sucks in defense. Anakin's defense may not be exactly on Obi-Wan's level, but it was good enough that Count Dooku couldn't breach and that Obi-Wan himself couldn't.

c) No Jedi Knight (including Yoda or Mace) has the raw connection to the Force that Anakin does. This guy can collapse a fricken' building by screaming - which isn't anything I've ever seen Palpatine or Yoda (the most powerful Force-users in the PT) do. They have a superior mastery to the Force, meaning that they can perform significant maneuvers with more efficiency, less strain, and such. They know techniques Anakin does not - but - Grievous has a minimal connection to the Force.

So stop comparing two-bit Jedi to the likes of Skywalker or Kenobi.

Grievous can't take: Yoda, Palpatine, Anakin, Mace, Dooku, or Obi-Wan - the six strongest Force users and duelist at the time of the PT.

Face it.

Originally posted by Escape81

a) Obi-Wan managed to stop all of Grievous's lightsabers. Anakin, who is stronger and has a much better connection to the Force would be able to do the same.

No. Kenobis style is built for defense and blocking. Anakins isnt. Therefore he isnt going to be able to block all the sabers coming at him. And once again the connection to the force isnt as important as you are making it out to be. GG wasnt defaeted because of the force.



Dooku was tiring and Anakin wasnt. This is why he couldnt get through Anakins defences. And Kenobis style isnt made to breach defences. The point is Anakin would not be able to stop all the lightsabers coming at him because that is not what his styleis made for.



So what? Ill say it again, the force is not the deciding factor in the battle. Obi-Wan had the force yet he still only won because he found a blaster.



What im saying is 5 jesi masters are better than either Skywalker or Kenobi. And GG managed to kill 5 jedi masters at once.



He would lose to everyone there except Anakin and Obi-Wan. Once again Kenobi bet GG in ROTS. In ROTS GG wasnt fighting his best. But this is CW GG so chances are Greicous will win this time. And Anakin simply cant block all 4 lightsabers.

No. Kenobis style is built for defense and blocking. Anakins isnt. Therefore he isnt going to be able to block all the sabers coming at him. And once again the connection to the force isnt as important as you are making it out to be. GG wasnt defaeted because of the force.

First off Obi-Wan knew Form IV and at the time of ROTS he knew Form III. Now Anakin knew Form V which Obi-Wan had no knowledge of so answer me this; why would a Jedi be teaching his Padawan a form he doesn't know about.

Dooku was tiring and Anakin wasnt. This is why he couldnt get through Anakins defences. And Kenobis style isnt made to breach defences. The point is Anakin would not be able to stop all the lightsabers coming at him because that is not what his styleis made for.

Mace's style isn't based on defense and Grievous couldn't defeat him.

So what? Ill say it again, the force is not the deciding factor in the battle. Obi-Wan had the force yet he still only won because he found a blaster.

Obi-Wan force pushed Grievous thus redening him unarmed. Grievous fled and Obi-Wan followed. During his chase he dropped his lightsaber. Grievous then grabbed two weapons: the electro-staff and blaster. Obi-Wan managed to knock the blaster from his hands. Grievous tried to kill Obi-Wan with the electro-staff but Obi-Wan grabbed the blaster and killed Grievous.

Grievous fled because he was a coward, he tried to use weapons against an unarmed Jedi, and because of that he was killed.

What im saying is 5 jesi masters are better than either Skywalker or Kenobi. And GG managed to kill 5 jedi masters at once.

Well considering Anakin took down three without struggling at all and Grievous faced difficultly

He would lose to everyone there except Anakin and Obi-Wan. Once again Kenobi bet GG in ROTS. In ROTS GG wasnt fighting his best. But this is CW GG so chances are Greicous will win this time. And Anakin simply cant block all 4 lightsabers.

You have no proof.

Originally posted by Sin Harvest
First off Obi-Wan knew Form IV and at the time of ROTS he knew Form III. Now Anakin knew Form V which Obi-Wan had no knowledge of so answer me this; why would a Jedi be teaching his Padawan a form he doesn't know about.

I dont know. Maybe Cin Drallig or somebody taught it to him. The point is Anakin doesnt know Soresu, which is the reason why Kenobi was able to block all the sabers. Anakin would not be able to block them all without knowledge of Soresu, he would simply get overwhelmed.



But Vapaad is a far more effective style than Anakins. And Mace is a better fight and has more skill than Anakin.



The point is the force didnt win Kenobi the battle. Whats to say GG wouldnt just run away again if Anakin was fighting him?



True. I agree that Anakin is better than most other jedi, but he could not single handedly go up against GG and win. His style is ineffective against all 4 sabers. He would need to learn Soresu or Makashi to be able to effectively fight Greivous.

I thought Anakin was described as one of the fastest jedi, at least the fastest jedi Durge had ever met, and that includes Obi-Wan. So speed is not a problem, the duel itself though.......

Anakin is fast, im not arguing that. But I doubt he is fast enough or skilled enough to block all 4 of Greivous's blades.

Meh that is debatable, but Obi could and Anakin was faster than Obi-Wan, but he was also more skilled in defence than Anakin. I think it depends on who goes on the offensive first, Anakin or Grievous. I don't think neither would hold out very well (at least not Grievous). But there is always a possibility Anakin ends it with the force...

But GG could block Anakin with one saber and use the other 3 to attack. Anakin doesnt have the some defensive abilities Kenobi has so will get killed.

Grievous defending with one saber will get him killed, he will need all he can get. And I didn't see Grievous doing that to Kenobi while they were in the saber lock, apparently he isn't that smart, as said before, he lacks sense of simplicity. And yet again, Anakin could simply use the force.

Originally posted by kamikz
Meh that is debatable, but Obi could and Anakin was faster than Obi-Wan, but he was also more skilled in defence than Anakin. I think it depends on who goes on the offensive first, Anakin or Grievous. I don't think neither would hold out very well (at least not Grievous). But there is always a possibility Anakin ends it with the force...

Palpatine knew Grievous' skills and knew all of his abilities. He also wanted Anakin to become his new apprentice and Palpatine wanted Anakin to fight Grievous because he knew that Anakin could and would have defeated the droid general.

Yup that's a point to. Anakin would defeat Grievous pretty much.

Originally posted by =X=
Palpatine knew Grievous' skills and knew all of his abilities. He also wanted Anakin to become his new apprentice and Palpatine wanted Anakin to fight Grievous because he knew that Anakin could and would have defeated the droid general.

Proof that Sids wanted Anakin to fight GG...

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Proof that Sids wanted Anakin to fight GG...

Proof. He said so in Revenge of the Sith when he elected Anakin to go face Grievous. He wanted Anakin, Palpatine didn't want Grievous. Grievous served his purpose. Palpatine was even disappointed when Anakin wasn't sent to fight Grievous.

Originally posted by =X=
Proof. He said so in Revenge of the Sith when he elected Anakin to go face Grievous. He wanted Anakin, Palpatine didn't want Grievous. Grievous served his purpose. Palpatine was even disappointed when Anakin wasn't sent to fight Grievous.

Hahahahaha. True. Maybe Anakin would win after all.....

Dig this here. We all know anakin and obi 1 would win.even if anakin fought general grievous. anakin is way too skilled. anakin would beat grievous faster than dooku wuld beat obi 1. as far as anakin and dooku, that is no question. when anakin really uses his potential he would destroy dooku with ease.

Originally posted by stone7
We all know anakin and obi 1 would win.even if anakin fought general grievous. anakin is way too skilled. anakin would beat grievous faster than dooku wuld beat obi 1.

No. Anakin would have the fight of his life if he went against Greivous. The match will certainly not be over in the time you expect it to be.



Again no. Dooku is Anakins superior. In ROTS the scales were tipped largely in Anakins favor eg two against one. Anakin will lose after a long and gruelling battle to the Count.

Originally posted by kamikz
And I didn't see Grievous doing that to Kenobi while they were in the saber lock
You're clearly forgetting the fact that when Grievous fought Obi-Wan in RotS, he was nowhere near as agile or fast as he had been in CW. He couldn't even stand straight anymore without it triggering a coughing fit. Also, being the hero, plot necessity dictated that Obi-Wan had to win and not get butchered.
The only reason Obi-Wan was able to defend himself was because of his Mastery of Soresu. Anakin does not have those kind of blocking skills, so would likely be unable to block Grievous' attacks in RotS, let alone stand up to him in peak condition as he had been in CW.

Again, who says Grievous would be the one attacking? I doubt he would survive a full attack from Anakin, let alone survive when Anakin uses the force.

And Grievous arms was as agile and fast as ever, but his body was slow....

Originally posted by kamikz
Again, who says Grievous would be the one attacking? I doubt he would survive a full attack from Anakin,
Why? He has four lightsabers he can use to block with...

Originally posted by kamikz
And Grievous arms was as agile and fast as ever,
They were not. Watch the scene in RotS, and compare it to the scene in CW when he held off the 5 Jedi. The speed of the rotations is audibly slower in RotS than it was in CW (which is about twice as fast)

Originally posted by Darth Vious
Why? He has four lightsabers he can use to block with...


They were not. Watch the scene in RotS, and compare it to the scene in CW when he held off the 5 Jedi. The speed of the rotations is audibly slower in RotS than it was in CW (which is about twice as fast)


Anakin outmanuvered Dooku who is a better swordsman than Grievous, was said to be probably the best practisioner of his style and the fastest jedi that Durge had ever "killed". Besides, Anakin is much more manuverable than Grievous, jumping over his head like Obi did without him even being prepared for it. And as I said, force = Game over for GG.


Well watch the scene where Mace fights in the CW then in ROTS, about 4 times as fast.

Originally posted by kamikz
Anakin outmanuvered Dooku who is a better swordsman than Grievous, was said to be probably the best practisioner of his style and the fastest jedi that Durge had ever "killed". Besides, Anakin is much more manuverable than Grievous, jumping over his head like Obi did without him even being prepared for it. And as I said, force = Game over for GG.

I suggest you re-watch CW and re-aquiant yourself with Grievous' abilities. Anakin is nowhere near as maneuverable than Grievous.
Anakin outmaneuvered Dooku by physically overpowering him. How would he be able to overpower someone with droid strength and reflexes? Even in his weakened condition in RotS, Grievous was throwing Obi-Wan around like a ragdoll. Who came out worse when Obi-Wan tried to kick Grievous' legs out? I'd like to see Anakin try and immobilize Grievous' arms as he did Dooku's.
Also, Grievous was able to dodge Force blasts in CW, so that is not necessarily a deciding factor in the match.

Originally posted by kamikz
Well watch the scene where Mace fights in the CW then in ROTS, about 4 times as fast.
What does that have to do with anything? The only reason he wasn't fighting as fast in RotS was because Palpatine wasn't using his acrobatics. (and that it would look stupid to have a live actor moving so fast) The fact I'm talking about, is simple manipulation of objects. Something Grievous could not do as fast in RotS because of Mace's Force crush in CW.

Originally posted by Darth Vious
I suggest you re-watch CW and re-aquiant yourself with Grievous' abilities. Anakin is nowhere near as maneuverable than Grievous.
Anakin outmaneuvered Dooku by physically overpowering him. How would he be able to overpower someone with droid strength and reflexes? Even in his weakened condition in RotS, Grievous was throwing Obi-Wan around like a ragdoll. Who came out worse when Obi-Wan tried to kick Grievous' legs out? I'd like to see Anakin try and immobilize Grievous' arms as he did Dooku's.
Also, Grievous was able to dodge Force blasts in CW, so that is not necessarily a deciding factor in the match.


What does that have to do with anything? The only reason he wasn't fighting as fast in RotS was because Palpatine wasn't using his acrobatics. (and that it would look stupid to have a live actor moving so fast) The fact I'm talking about, is simple manipulation of objects. Something Grievous could not do as fast in RotS because of Mace's Force crush in CW.


The CW has a tendency to overpower people as I have said before. And Anakin was better than Dooku, this has been debated. Grievous could dodge Ki-Adi's force push, but he couldn't dodge when Dooku grabbed his leg with the force, Anakin could do the same. (As lifting a rock, you grab it with the force instead of using force to push it). And Obi easily pushed Grievous away, Anakin could do the same, as you said, he can barley rise before coughing his ass off..... And how does the crush effect his ROBOT arms? And Grievous tossed Obi-Wan around in an UNARMED duel (after he cowered and ran away), still Obi won in the end....


And in AOTC, he wasn't near that good. Mace had an army the size of the one surrounding them in AOTC, in the CW he wtfpwned them, in AOTC he knew they were about to die but they were saved by the clones. If Mace could push a whole army by himself he would have in that situation and before that..... And no, it is YOUR opinion that it would look stupid, but I have seen other movies that had people moving damn fast and it doesn't look silly....