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Both have infinite amount supply of Psi energy. Hyperstorm draws his energy from Hyperspace, while Phoenix uses the life forces of beings not yet born. And they both are telepaths and have telekinesis abilities.

Phoenix wins this 10/10.

Phoenixwins 10~0/10, Phoenix only using life Force when manifesting a sentience on the physical plane without a host or Jean as its avatar, Jonathon or David would lose horribly

The Phoenix had a host while drawing it's power from future life to fight Galactus.

The Phoenix doesnt consciously tap into future life to use it as a power source. As stated in the same story arc the Phoenix Force itself is the very creation energy which makes all life possible anyway. However when the Phoenix manifests on the physical plane, when it takes on a consciousness and becomes a life unto itself within the closed system that is marvel creation, its presence results in the absorption of that very life energy reserved for future generations. Hence its preference to act via avatars such as Jean.

Originally posted by Psi-Lord
Both have infinite amount supply of Psi energy. Hyperstorm draws his energy from Hyperspace, while Phoenix uses the life forces of beings not yet born. And they both are telepaths and have telekinesis abilities.

Hyperstorm is just an immensely powerful mutant who could tap into the fundamental forces. Phoenix is the origin point of all energy in creation and its avatars, its representatives within creation are called the ultimate mutations for a reason. Phoenix would annihilate Hyperstorm with ridiculous ease. The woman has held 616 in her hand. Hyperstorm taps into the forces of a universe. See the major difference?

that's because Phoenix had drawn on life force when it gave itself sentience and consciousness, then it bonded with Rachel after the holoempathic crystal. According to excalibur #64:"However, in order to manifest itself on the physical plane, the Force must tap into the near limitless source of energy provided by life-force reserved for future generations, thus denying them existance. " if it manifests on the physical plane, it forms a sentience as opposed to just remaining in its natural state then it consumes the life energy allocated for future life

From the same issue:"

"Why cant you retain the consciousness you have evolved when you return to your natural state?"

"My presence here is sustained by life force stolen from that which i celebrate"

Phoenix becoming sentient, a life unto itself uses up the energy allocated for future life. It's natural state doesnt thrive on the life force, it gets around having to form a sentience by acting through a host or avatar. In endsong, when we first see the Force, it's using up Life force, but in Jean Grey or Emma Frost, bodies that were living (or in Jean's case, revived) there was no need to manifest a physical form when there was a host or avatar to act through. Pretty much if u see a Raptor sans host or avatar, its using up life energy, and that happens a lot... should we be worried?

What If he had the Captain Universe & the Mind Gem to go up against Phoenix

Augmenting his powers by atleast 50 times

Originally posted by golem370
What If he had the Captain Universe & the Mind Gem to go up against Phoenix

Youre just not getting it are you. The Phoenix Force is the power of creation. As Galactus and LT said Marvel creation is a closed system. All energy within reality stems from the Big Bang, stems from the Phoenix Force. The mind gem without the power gem to amp its power up to virtually infinite proportions just makes for a powerful telepath. Plus theres the small fact that the I gems as per current continuity (as highlighted by the Champions recent bio) all draw their power from the Big Bang.

The Captain Universe power probably isnt even as powerful as Hyperstorm himself, so its a non factor.

none of you know what your talking about. Hyperstorm would defeat her hands down.

No dude, you do not know what you are talking about, Jean would beat him with no hands at all.

Well if shes in White crown mode yes.

Other then that Hyperstorm, the one from exiles not the one from fantastic four would match her power and over take her with his others.

so white crown phoenix probably wins.

other then that nope.


1) Your talking about the Hyperstorm who fought the fantastic four, "Johnathan" Richards. I'm talking abotu the "David" Richards one from exiles. But then again you would know that if you really collected them.

2) No rachel wasnt always fully bonded to the phoenix, thats why she doesnt have the Green costume till Excalibur #51. "Jonathan" is the son of the Rachel who never got to this point. "David" is the son of the Rachel who did bond with the Phoenix.

3) David has the phoenix powers (Including ressurection), plus he manifests the Raptor and has never been host to the phoenix. The power is his without it since it was passed to him form his mother rachel/phoenix force. The "johnathan" hyperstorm could never do that. Plus David is not only able to connect with Hyperspace but the multiverse as well.

4) There are times when jean is not fully connected to the phoenix force and cannot draw on its full power. Without being fully connected to the Phoenix Force, David would waste her.

Im talking about jean when shes not bonded to the phoenix force. When she fought Xorn she wasnt, She had a fragment of the phoenix in her from Inferno. That was it. At THAT POINT he wouldve beat her.

Originally posted by Psi-Lord
Both have infinite amount supply of Psi energy. Hyperstorm draws his energy from Hyperspace, while Phoenix uses the life forces of beings not yet born. And they both are telepaths and have telekinesis abilities.

hyperstorm loses

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Hyperstorm is just an immensely powerful mutant who could tap into the fundamental forces. Phoenix is the origin point of all energy in creation and its avatars, its representatives within creation are called the ultimate mutations for a reason. Phoenix would annihilate Hyperstorm with ridiculous ease. The woman has held 616 in her hand. Hyperstorm taps into the forces of a universe. See the major difference?







GS I think that your forgetting that it's actually The REEDFORCE that is the origin point of all of it... The Phoenix included.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Hyperstorm is just an immensely powerful mutant who could tap into the fundamental forces. Phoenix is the origin point of all energy in creation and its avatars, its representatives within creation are called the ultimate mutations for a reason. Phoenix would annihilate Hyperstorm with ridiculous ease. The woman has held 616 in her hand. Hyperstorm taps into the forces of a universe. See the major difference?

Sort of like he's tapping into what's in her hand.
Phoenix anyday, everyday, all day.

phoenix force still

Wow, the Phoenix bull was at it's prime at this point.

"616 in her hands."

"The origin point of all energy in creation."

"All energy within reality stems from the Phoenix Force"

durlaugh

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wow, the Phoenix bull was at it's prime at this point.

"616 in her hands."

"The origin point of all energy in creation."

durlaugh
What do you expect from the guy who compares phoenix to the freaking source.