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In this forum I have been accused of being a tree hugging, Bush hating liberal and a Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie. It seems if you disagree with a person's point, they see you as the antithesis of everything they hold dear.

I see people trying so hard to get their point across that they completely ignore when someone agrees with an element in what they say because that person did not believe in everything that that person says.

We seem to live in a time when it's all or nothing, and I fear that it's that element in communication that is becoming the norm more so than the exception both on this board, and in real life.

Anyone care to agree, disagree or comment?

I really wouldn't say it's just all or nothing. The shades of grey in between still exist.

only a sith deals in absolutes

It's far easier to assume than to learn.
It's easier to live ignorant than to know what was hidden.
Darkness covers the facts that should be gone.

But seriously, I get what you're saying, and it's true. However, it is easier to create an artificial idea of a person than to go through and learn all of their individual opinions. It's also easier to debate against someone who disagrees with you than who differs slightly off of your own ideals.

Originally posted by PVS
only a sith deals in absolutes
I was tempted to say that too, but it probably wouldn't have the greatest reaction on K.Dog.

fiction is a representation of reality, and most of the times all you have to do is exchange a word: only an a$$hole deals in absolutes.

Originally posted by DarkC
I was tempted to say that too, but it probably wouldn't have the greatest reaction on K.Dog.

I don't believe in absolutes, it just seems to be the way things are heading. The ole "you're either with me or against me mentality".

And no need to worry about how I react to your comments, I'm interested to hear what people say, whether in jest or sincere explanation.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
I don't believe in absolutes, it just seems to be the way things are heading. The ole "you're either with me or against me mentality".

And no need to worry about how I react to your comments, I'm interested to hear what people say, whether in jest or sincere explanation.
Offhand quesiton...how'd you manage to get labelled both as a Bushwhacker and a Bush-loving zombie?

Originally posted by DarkC
Offhand quesiton...how'd you manage to get labelled both as a Bushwhacker and a Bush-loving zombie?

Got labelled a tree huggin', bush hater by devoted republican types. Got labeled a Bush loving zombie by the conspiracy crowd.

Seems like having an independant veiwpoint is not seen as a realisitic option by some.

Yeah, that seems to be the nature of General Discussion. So far.




But hey, I'm still "wet-behind-the-ears" here, as Alpha C. puts it.

I agree.

I have gotten into many arguments with both Liberals and Conservatives, simply because im more moderate and not on one side of the spectrum.

For example, in the Abortion Threads...that is like the only point of view I have that is rather Conservative, yet I doubt any of them even realize that I'm Liberal.

And on any thread where I DEFEND Homosexuality, religious conservatives are quick to make a rival out of me.

Gosh.....

Originally posted by KharmaDog
In this forum I have been accused of being a tree hugging, Bush hating liberal and a Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie. It seems if you disagree with a person's point, they see you as the antithesis of everything they hold dear.

I see people trying so hard to get their point across that they completely ignore when someone agrees with an element in what they say because that person did not believe in everything that that person says.

We seem to live in a time when it's all or nothing, and I fear that it's that element in communication that is becoming the norm more so than the exception both on this board, and in real life.

Anyone care to agree, disagree or comment?

I remember, in one of the elective philosophy classes I did, Greek philosophy - in nature - compared to the nature of opinion and belief today. Now in the Greek terms it was admirable to have conviction, but it showed wisdom to have educated doubt - that is the understanding that one might be wrong, or more correctly that one could be right, but could always learn more and evolve.

Compare to today - doubt, of any sort is, by and large, and evil thing. A weakness. A person is encouraged to support their stance up to the hilt and to the death, and never listen to the other side. Why? Because people, many people, like to think they know best.

A shame really, and I agree there is to many "all or nothing" attitudes in the world today. To many "your either with us or against us." I have my own beliefs, all based upon fact that I see as the truth. But I still listen to all view points, and if I don't see them as right I will debate them. And throughout life I have changed certain views as I have learnt more. Thus I am often disappointed by those people who blindly and loudly rant their opinions and refuse to listen to any other view but their own, even more so when they demonstrate regretful ignorance, but refuse to learn.

I believe it would be far better if people could admit mistakes and grow. It is not weakness to learn. It is not weakness to outgrow a view point. It is, however, a weakness to hang on to one out of fear, or refusal to see sense, or due to a racist/bigoted stance that has no philosophical or scientific basis.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
In this forum I have been accused of being a tree hugging, Bush hating liberal and a Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie.


OMG you hate Bush too? Welcome to the club!

Originally posted by KharmaDog
It seems if you disagree with a person's point, they see you as the antithesis of everything they hold dear.

I think it is more so that peple believe in their own personal opinions so much, they come to believe that their opinion is the only opinion that really matters. That shits me.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
In this forum I have been accused of being a tree hugging, Bush hating liberal and a Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie. It seems if you disagree with a person's point, they see you as the antithesis of everything they hold dear.

I see people trying so hard to get their point across that they completely ignore when someone agrees with an element in what they say because that person did not believe in everything that that person says.

We seem to live in a time when it's all or nothing, and I fear that it's that element in communication that is becoming the norm more so than the exception both on this board, and in real life.

Anyone care to agree, disagree or comment?

My opinion, don't care what people have to say about you. Especially faceless nobodies who dwell in cyberspace, they aren't real people, they're robots. My philosophy is, in your eyes, you should be the best, and not praise anyone else as high/better/smarter then you. In your eyes, you should be the best. Selfish? Perhaps, that's up to you right?

Originally posted by KharmaDog
In this forum I have been accused of being a tree hugging, Bush hating liberal and a Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie. It seems if you disagree with a person's point, they see you as the antithesis of everything they hold dear.

I see people trying so hard to get their point across that they completely ignore when someone agrees with an element in what they say because that person did not believe in everything that that person says.

We seem to live in a time when it's all or nothing, and I fear that it's that element in communication that is becoming the norm more so than the exception both on this board, and in real life.

Anyone care to agree, disagree or comment?

You're totally correct. The personal freedom to agree with a line item veto seems to have gone by the wayside. There is nothing wrong with viewing issues as grey, rather than black and white or all or nothing. There are a number of posters who I agree with, based on a singular opinion. And others I know I don't based on their devotion to party lines. I have a number of views that don't correspond to the "ideal" gay liberal. The sad part is that when I express those views, people view me as a traitor the "the cause". Nothing could be further from the truth. But, nothing could be more self-serving than believing that any one person argues, uniformly, for one cause or perspective.

Folks like Whob are allowed to infest every potentially interesting argument, making a parody of everyone else that chooses to involve themselves in that argument or discussion. And while I know acknowledging that only adds fuel to his fire and his desperate behavior, I also know it's true. By parodying me, he thinks he's defeating my arguments. But, everyone else is responding accordingly. I don't dictate people's opinions. They do, themselves. And it just happens to irritate him that more people don't blindly follow his idea of the world and it's 6000 year timeframe.

So, you're right. It's hard to have a clear point of view when everyone wants you to follow one banner v. another. And even more difficult when everyone expects you to agree on certain issues.

Originally posted by Scythe
My opinion, don't care what people have to say about you. Especially faceless nobodies who dwell in cyberspace, they aren't real people, they're robots. My philosophy is, in your eyes, you should be the best, and not praise anyone else as high/better/smarter then you.

Seems kind of unreasonable to me - remarkably arrogant and hubristic. It is not wrong, nor once again weak, to listen. Nor to praise someone who is "high/better/smarter" then you. Granted, it is foolish and over the top to base ones happiness and self esteem on how people on the net see you, but at the same time there is no reason to act like and oblivious moron caught up in their own self worth - and I am sure we have all encountered people like that.

After all, how is it enjoyable or informative to jump on line, spray ones oppinions about and ignore any counter argument or actual debate? What does it achieve?

And besides, I can say with complete acceptance and light heart that there are "higher/better/smarter" people out then them me. And you. And everyone on this forum - it is a fact of life.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Got labelled a tree huggin', bush hater by devoted republican types. Got labeled a Bush loving zombie by the conspiracy crowd.

Seems like having an independant veiwpoint is not seen as a realisitic option by some.

Last time I checked the conspiracy crowd didn't have the right to an opinions, so, you are just a tree-hugging bush-hater.
A canadian one too.

Anyways, I think something similar applies to people who generaly agree with ones point of view. Like I usually agree with PVS, but sometimes when I do not and he is being a bush-sucking.supreme-fascist, I don't hate him (although he absolutely deserves it...)

I think what happens, also, is that many people are here, not so much to exchange ideas / debate, but also to vent and act-out.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Got labelled a tree huggin', bush hater by devoted republican types. Got labeled a Bush loving zombie by the conspiracy crowd.

Seems like having an independant veiwpoint is not seen as a realisitic option by some.

Thats an oxymoron!

Originally posted by Inspectah Deck
Thats an oxymoron!

Originally posted by KharmaDog
In this forum I have been accused of being a tree hugging, Bush hating liberal and a Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie. It seems if you disagree with a person's point, they see you as the antithesis of everything they hold dear.

I see people trying so hard to get their point across that they completely ignore when someone agrees with an element in what they say because that person did not believe in everything that that person says.

We seem to live in a time when it's all or nothing, and I fear that it's that element in communication that is becoming the norm more so than the exception both on this board, and in real life.

Anyone care to agree, disagree or comment?

My dear friend, I would suggest that you take yourself less seriously and that you consider and respect the opinions of other more than you already do. And please don't take opinions so seriously - life is like a dart board where know one will ever hit the bull's eye anyway...because there is no dart board to start with.

Originally posted by PVS
fiction is a representation of reality, and most of the times all you have to do is exchange a word: only an a$$hole deals in absolutes.



There is too much agreement and black or white today. People are afraid to be dissenters, and find middle grounds to arguments. I absolutely agree with your guys positions.

Would you shut up, you tree hugging, Bush hating liberal, Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie.

It's easier for stupid people to simplify and see things as black and white then it is too look at all the shades of gray.

Originally posted by BackFire
It's easier for stupid people to simplify and see things as black and white then it is too look at all the shades of gray.

Agreed. Things are either shades of gray OR NOT shades of gray.
Those are the only two possibilities people can choose from.

Originally posted by BackFire
It's easier for stupid people to simplify and see things as black and white then it is too look at all the shades of gray.

Originally posted by Gay Guy
Agreed. Things are either shades of gray OR NOT shades of gray.
Those are the only two possibilities people can choose from.

That doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by PVS
only a sith deals in absolutes Only a jedi deals in possibilities.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
In this forum I have been accused of being a tree hugging, Bush hating liberal and a Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie. It seems if you disagree with a person's point, they see you as the antithesis of everything they hold dear.

I see people trying so hard to get their point across that they completely ignore when someone agrees with an element in what they say because that person did not believe in everything that that person says.

We seem to live in a time when it's all or nothing, and I fear that it's that element in communication that is becoming the norm more so than the exception both on this board, and in real life.

Anyone care to agree, disagree or comment?


I agree, you are.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
In this forum I have been accused of being a tree hugging, Bush hating liberal and a Bush loving, media influenced republican zombie. It seems if you disagree with a person's point, they see you as the antithesis of everything they hold dear.

I see people trying so hard to get their point across that they completely ignore when someone agrees with an element in what they say because that person did not believe in everything that that person says.

We seem to live in a time when it's all or nothing, and I fear that it's that element in communication that is becoming the norm more so than the exception both on this board, and in real life.

Anyone care to agree, disagree or comment? I know how you feel. People can be so stupid some times.

I think KMC is too American.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That doesn't make any sense.

Okay fine, how about this then.

Things fall into only three categories.

Category 1: Black
Category 2: White
Category 3: Shades of Gray

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I agree entirely.

I disagree with her entirely. Now let's refer back to my previous post.



Let's now assume the following:

White = All who completely agree with Omega.
Black = All who completely disagree with Omega.
Shades of Gray = All those who neither completely agree or disagree with Omega.

So with that being stated, my point stands. Only three categories exist, or we could simplify it to two categories by using the following model:

Category 1: Those who believe in only blacks/whites existing.

OR

Category 2: Those who believe in only shades of gray existing.

Either way, only blacks, whites, and shades of gray exist. Those are the only categories. Anyone who sides with only one of those categories all the time is an extremist, and unbalanced.

Originally posted by Gay Guy
I disagree with her entirely. Now let's refer back to my previous post.

Funny, you are saying you don't agree with the "either/or" stance, but disagree with person who also doesn't agree with the "either/or" stance.

Take a moment to locate yourself so you can tell whether you're comeing or going.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Funny, you are saying you don't agree with the "either/or" stance, but disagree with person who also doesn't agree with the "either/or" stance.




You stated that you COMPLETELY agree with Omega's argument.

I stated that I COMPLETELY disagree with Omega's argument.

By doing such, we've both taken an EITHER/OR stance to Omega's position of being against those who profess EITHER/OR arguments.

If you truly wanted to support her position, you would have responded with an "I partially agree with you" or "There is some truth to what you say."

Instead, you've just inadvertently exposed the logic fallacy in her argument.



Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Take a moment to locate yourself so you can tell whether you're comeing or going.


I will my friend. I believe that it is also time for you to do the same.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Funny, you are saying you don't agree with the "either/or" stance, but disagree with person who also doesn't agree with the "either/or" stance.

Take a moment to locate yourself so you can tell whether you're comeing or going.

According to PVS "Gay Guy" is a Whob-sock (and I am not referring to peices of attire for the feet). This seems to be a bad thing, so best ignore.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Seems kind of unreasonable to me - remarkably arrogant and hubristic. It is not wrong, nor once again weak, to listen. Nor to praise someone who is "high/better/smarter" then you. Granted, it is foolish and over the top to base ones happiness and self esteem on how people on the net see you, but at the same time there is no reason to act like and oblivious moron caught up in their own self worth - and I am sure we have all encountered people like that.

After all, how is it enjoyable or informative to jump on line, spray ones oppinions about and ignore any counter argument or actual debate? What does it achieve?

And besides, I can say with complete acceptance and light heart that there are "higher/better/smarter" people out then them me. And you. And everyone on this forum - it is a fact of life.

Amen!