Are we enslaved to our own minds?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?

Regret
lol, is there a mind, as you say?

Gay Guy
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?


Do you think its possible though, for us to completely understand truth in this lifetime? I mean..is the human mind really capable of being able to grasp such a concept in its entirety?

I don't think so. In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson, we as human beings with our limited understanding and intellectual abilities can't completely "handle the truth." At best, I think the only thing we are capable of doing in this lifetime is accepting or rejecting the outcomes which it leads us to.

Mindship
In a word (or two): you betcha.

goatstradamus
Originally posted by Gay Guy
Do you think its possible though, for us to completely understand truth in this lifetime? I mean..is the human mind really capable of being able to grasp such a concept in its entirety?

I don't think so. In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson, we as human beings with our limited understanding and intellectual abilities can't completely "handle the truth." At best, I think the only thing we are capable of doing in this lifetime is accepting or rejecting the outcomes which it leads us to.

Yea I agree... I don't think the human mind is capable of understanding a concept such as truth in its entirety, and thats sort of the point....
..Maybe truth is something we can't comprehend, so claiming that we know the truth is just an illusion of our minds....

You could say the unchecked mind is what rejects outcomes.....Rejecting outcomes that have already come to pass is a stress factor that does us no good right? Another way the unchecked mind screwd with us...

goatstradamus
Originally posted by Regret
lol, is there a mind, as you say?

I don't know, does anything really exist?

for purposes of this thread lets say, yes, there "is" a "mind"
Even though may not understand what it is.

but of course that brings in other questions...

whats the difference between consciousness and the mind?
or do you even distinguish between the two?
I mean.... do you believe everything that pops into your head? do you react? if so how? and how you interpret the emotions and sensations you feel?

Regret
Originally posted by goatstradamus
I don't know, does anything really exist?

for purposes of this thread lets say, yes, there "is" a "mind"
Even though may not understand what it is.

but of course that brings in other questions...

whats the difference between consciousness and the mind?
or do you even distinguish between the two?
I mean.... do you believe everything that pops into your head? do you react? if so how? and how you interpret the emotions and sensations you feel?

So is life a Matrix, or at least are the physical laws we are bound by limiting us due to our inability to deny their existence?

strangehero420
if we are not a mind what are we just a meatbag? or a soul

Gay Guy
Originally posted by strangehero420
if we are not a mind what are we just a meatbag? or a soul

meatbag with a soul, that has the ability to choose between good and evil..

strangehero420
so why is the mind not good

goatstradamus
Originally posted by Regret
So is life a Matrix, or at least are the physical laws we are bound by limiting us due to our inability to deny their existence?

I don't know about a matrix...

It's kind of funny because now that I think about it....
trying to answer all these questions...that is, trying to free yourself from your mind by only using your mind...

So...


I guess that means some of my past questions are pointless..
(EDIT)

Mindship
But what asked the question in the first place? evil face

Wonderer
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions........separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?
You sound quite Buddhist, are you? You are talking about the 4 noble truths in Buddhism:
1. Dukkha - Suffering is universal
2. Samudaya - The cause of suffering is attachment
3. Nirodha - Cessation of suffering is possible
4. Magga - The way of ending suffering - detachment

http://www.4truths.com/index.html
Originally posted by goatstradamus
I don't know, does anything really exist?

No, the world is a projection of your mind. Things are empty and there is no entity for anything. For example, if you take a table, what is it that makes the table? When does it ceases to be a table? When you remove the top, or the legs? You see, there is no such thing as a table in itself, but only an appearance of a table, a temporal form, but no fixed entity we call a table.

goatstradamus
Originally posted by Wonderer
You sound quite Buddhist, are you? You are talking about the 4 noble truths in Buddhism:
1. Dukkha - Suffering is universal
2. Samudaya - The cause of suffering is attachment
3. Nirodha - Cessation of suffering is possible
4. Magga - The way of ending suffering - detachment



No, the world is a projection of your mind. Things are empty and there is no entity for anything. For example, if you take a table, what is it that makes the table? When does it ceases to be a table? When you remove the top, or the legs? You see, there is no such thing as a table in itself, but only an appearance of a table, a temporal form, but no fixed entity we call a table.

Yes, I realize the similarities...but I do not identify myself as a Buddhist. I agree with this idea though..but not neccesarily "Dukkha"

I am just trying to focus a discussion on whether or not people believe the idea is true, without any context in a religion. After all, this idea is certainly not limited to the religion(or philosophy) of Buddhism...

The thread may be hard to understand though if one cannot grasp the concept that you are not your mind...after all the mind wants to understand why you are not your mind.. which, I guess brings in things like religion and so forth, you know, projections of your mind. smile

Mindship
Though worded differently with each school of thought, all meditative disciplines talk about being "enslaved" to one's mind, about being identified with thought and ego.

It even pervades pop culture: we've all seen the often, comedically portrayed predicament of a person caught between his angel-self on one shoulder and his devil-self on the other. Anyone familiar with the ol' Lays potato chip commercial: "'Betcha can't eat just one."? Same thing.

Even w/o any of the above however, all one needs to do is observe their inner dialogue for any period of time; the effect is even more dramatic when one tries to stop it.

Buddhism offers one codified way of understanding this universal human dilemma. Transpersonal psychology offers a more religiously neutral or scientific POV. All these perspectives have their common thread elucidated in what Huxley called the Perennial Philosophy.
http://members.tripod.com/~parvati/perennial.html

Whether you buy into it or not, it's fascinating stuff, the whole idea that, essentially, the Way to God/Infinity/Enlightenment is through Attention.

"An earnest student comes to a master and asks for the highest and most secret teaching on the dharma" . "With one deft move the master picks up a brush, dips it in some ink and writes the word ‘Attention.’ Dissatisfied by this answer, the student presses for another, deeper teaching. The master takes up the brush again and writes ‘Attention. Attention.’ The student is highly unimpressed. ‘If you are a master, you should be able to give me more than that,’ he says. So the master sighs, and then he writes ‘Attention. Attention. Attention'."

May the Force be with you. wink

Atlantis001
Originally posted by goatstradamus
We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?

True... we are always judging and analyzing things so we can feel entirely safe of our decisions, or always thinking in the past or future planning things, instead of living it. I mean... we plan too much, and judge to much what is right or wrong, safe or unsafe, etc... but we rarely we just "live in the moment" like you said.

It even hard to define what does to "live in the moment" means. We would try to search for a method showing us how to do that, or to understand logically what it means, but that just something you do.

Sometimes I think we like to lose so much time trying to explain things because we feel it is the better we will get. Like maturbation when you can´t get laid. laughing out loud

redcaped
Mind as response of actions you see happening day by day. Even by leaving a mark in history...when others get to know you, it will still be your own illusion. In this life you are a different person regardless of what you do or accomplish.

Wonderer
Originally posted by goatstradamus

I am just trying to focus a discussion on whether or not people believe the idea is true, without any context in a religion. After all, this idea is certainly not limited to the religion(or philosophy) of Buddhism...

The thread may be hard to understand though if one cannot grasp the concept that you are not your mind...after all the mind wants to understand why you are not your mind.. which, I guess brings in things like religion and so forth, you know, projections of your mind. smile
By all means, the concept of suffering and attachment to things is universal and not exclusively tied to Buddhism. Moreover, Buddha was not the first Buddhist, because he was no Buddhist.
Originally posted by Mindship
...Even w/o any of the above however, all one needs to do is observe their inner dialogue for any period of time; the effect is even more dramatic when one tries to stop it...

Whenever one attempts to observe the inner mind, the trick is not to try and stop ones thoughts, whether good or bad, even better not to engage in the process at all. The point is to relax in ones thoughts and feelings whether good or bad, because nothing is inherently good or bad. Self acceptance is the answer.

From a philosophical perspective, there is no religion, science or philosophy that will ever be truly able to redeem the suffering human being, there shouldn't be such a quest towards redemption in anyway. For as long as we will crave such redemption and intellectualise the quest, as long will we be ridiculed in the act of an all too serious business. The mind must first be rid of its thinking and intellect should be dancing to the wims of instinct.

goatstradamus
Originally posted by Mindship
But what asked the question in the first place? evil face


Their is nothing wrong with consciously using ones mind to create. The mind is an excellent tool..

docb77
I think it's actually impossible to be enslaved to ones own mind, because one is his own mind. Now some people are enslaved by habit, or instinct. The mind has power to overcome these chains however. Once you control yourself, you become your own master.

Atlantis001
Originally posted by docb77
I think it's actually impossible to be enslaved to ones own mind, because one is his own mind.

I think that what he meant is if someone IS his own mind then we are truly enslaved by ourselves. Like being doomed to be ourselves... to stay in our ego or individuality.

FistOfThe North
Wow. The mind has a mind of it's own. Intriguing.

Mindship
Originally posted by Atlantis001
I think that what he meant is if someone IS his own mind then we are truly enslaved by ourselves. Like being doomed to be ourselves... to stay in our ego or individuality.
Not only is the ego an illusion that one, literally, thinks is his/her identity, its singularity/unity is an illusion. Mentally, "I" is a loosely organized conglomeration of many, many "mini-egos," each with its own agenda, inner dialogue, will and emotional set. Again, the best known illustration of this is the Lil Angel / Lil Devil dichotomy.



This illusion--the ego conglomeration--is like a living thing, a psychological life-form, which, like a living thing, seeks to preserve itself. It fears and avoids death, sustaining itself via one's inner dialogue.

Wonderer
Originally posted by Mindship
Not only is the ego an illusion that one, literally, thinks is his/her identity, its singularity/unity is an illusion. Mentally, "I" is a loosely organized conglomeration of many, many "mini-egos," each with its own agenda, inner dialogue, will and emotional set. Again, the best known illustration of this is the Lil Angel / Lil Devil dichotomy.



This illusion--the ego conglomeration--is like a living thing, a psychological life-form, which, like a living thing, seeks to preserve itself. It fears and avoids death, sustaining itself via one's inner dialogue.

Why do you say that on'es ego is an illusion? Is the ego not a real, valid part of one's mind? Isn't the ego just basically one's Psychology? I wouldn't say a person's psychology/sense of self/consciousness is an illusion. I think it's very real.

Mindship
Originally posted by Wonderer
Why do you say that on'es ego is an illusion? Is the ego not a real, valid part of one's mind? Isn't the ego just basically one's Psychology? I wouldn't say a person's psychology/sense of self/consciousness is an illusion. I think it's very real.

It's certainly real in the sense that we're aware of it; that we relate to the world from that POV; and it is a necessary, healthy step in psychological development. But it is an illusion in that it is not our "final identity destination," so to speak. That, ultimately, is "God" (ie, from a meditative/spiritual/transpersonal perspective).

Wonderer
Originally posted by Mindship
It's certainly real in the sense that we're aware of it; that we relate to the world from that POV; and it is a necessary, healthy step in psychological development. But it is an illusion in that it is not our "final identity destination," so to speak. That, ultimately, is "God" (ie, from a meditative/spiritual/transpersonal perspective).

I don't quite understand you. So, you are saying that the human individual does not exist, but that only God(whatever that is) exists?

Mindship
Originally posted by Wonderer
I don't quite understand you. So, you are saying that the human individual does not exist, but that only God(whatever that is) exists?

In the sense I mentioned above, human individuality exists. Depending on one's definition of God, however, human individuality is either separate from, or a part of, God. Mystical/meditative literature emphasizes the latter (part of God).

The development of the ego is part of normal, healthy psychological development. According to the Western paradigm, however, that's it: psychological development ends with ego. There is no soul, no God, nothing further to "evolve" toward. There is nothing more.

However, since the mystical schools of thought say there is more (ie, "God"wink, psychological development does not have to end with ego. The same process of development, which occurs automatically, taking each and every one of us from infant-mind to adult-mind (ego), can be re-ignited, so to speak, via meditation.

As a metaphor, think of an individual cell in your body. Using the term "consciousness" in the broadest sense, that cell has its own individual awareness, but at the same time it is part of the larger entity of the body. If a cell could meditate, it would transcend its individual awareness and become conscious of the greater awareness of the whole body. Individuality is not obliterated; it's just put in context.

Sorry for the rambling.

Wonderer
Originally posted by Mindship
In the sense I mentioned above, human individuality exists. Depending on one's definition of God, however, human individuality is either separate from, or a part of, God. Mystical/meditative literature emphasizes the latter (part of God).

The development of the ego is part of normal, healthy psychological development. According to the Western paradigm, however, that's it: psychological development ends with ego. There is no soul, no God, nothing further to "evolve" toward. There is nothing more.

However, since the mystical schools of thought say there is more (ie, "God"wink, psychological development does not have to end with ego. The same process of development, which occurs automatically, taking each and every one of us from infant-mind to adult-mind (ego), can be re-ignited, so to speak, via meditation.

As a metaphor, think of an individual cell in your body. Using the term "consciousness" in the broadest sense, that cell has its own individual awareness, but at the same time it is part of the larger entity of the body. If a cell could meditate, it would transcend its individual awareness and become conscious of the greater awareness of the whole body. Individuality is not obliterated; it's just put in context.

Sorry for the rambling.
This makes more sense. Yes, I agree that it's vitally important to remain "in touch" and aware of one's existence being a part of a greater whole - call it nature or God. If one is detached of the greater being then chaos happens. We need to affrim our being part of the greater whole of the universe in order to have harmony. smile

Great Vengeance
Once you leave your mind, I imagine you will have a great deal more freedom. You will also cease to exist however.

Storm
Some people should rely more upon their feelings as a guide in everyday situations. Rather than just trying to figure things out in their head, following their intuitive feeling for a while and letting things unfold.

goatstradamus
Originally posted by Storm
Some people should rely more upon their feelings as a guide in everyday situations. Rather than just trying to figure things out in their head, following their intuitive feeling for a while and letting things unfold.

So I take it your saying that by over thinking instead of relying on your own intuition your giving power away to the inner ego mind?

I can see that.

DarkRaven
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?


"It has been said that the body is a slave to the mind"
--Criss Angel

inamilist
Do you question being a slave to the forces of atomic interactions?

Of simply being a tool to the inertia of the big bang?

No? Really? surprising....

mind=body=brain. Its provable.

Atlantis001
I think our ego is only a experience that the real "us" is passing through, but our ego is not us. The real us is our consciousness, and it is like if that consciousness is watching a tv video which is our ego.


I think like because the ego is like a program that we must follow. We usually think we are that program and those programmed desires and wishes we have are actually us who are having by pure free will, but I think its not completely like this. We have these desires and wishes because our hormones says that we must have then.


A person who gets easily angered is a person who has a lot of activity going on in their amigdalae, a stressed person is a person that has low levels of serotonin, etc. Those persons are not angered or stressed, but their consciousness is watching a video where it is subjected to those experiences, when we watch that video we identify ourselves with the role of the main character so well that we forget that we are not that character(like in the prison experiment in the other thread).


When we watch a movie we have all the experiences that the character in the video have, it is not different than our life. If you think it is different because we can´t act and control the actions in a movie, then think about video games or virtual reality simulators. Why do we have to identify ourselves with this character but not the one of a movie or game ?


The answer does not matter, I only wanted to show that our lives are like a movie that our consciousness is watching and thinking it is the character in there.


If this is true. We don´t have to suffer because it is the character who suffers not the consciousness.

Hydrono
Originally posted by Atlantis001
I think our ego is only a experience that the real "us" is passing through, but our ego is not us. The real us is our consciousness, and it is like if that consciousness is watching a tv video which is our ego.


I think like because the ego is like a program that we must follow. We usually think we are that program and those programmed desires and wishes we have are actually us who are having by pure free will, but I think its not completely like this. We have these desires and wishes because our hormones says that we must have then.


A person who gets easily angered is a person who has a lot of activity going on in their amigdalae, a stressed person is a person that has low levels of serotonin, etc. Those persons are not angered or stressed, but their consciousness is watching a video where it is subjected to those experiences, when we watch that video we identify ourselves with the role of the main character so well that we forget that we are not that character(like in the prison experiment in the other thread).


When we watch a movie we have all the experiences that the character in the video have, it is not different than our life. If you think it is different because we can´t act and control the actions in a movie, then think about video games or virtual reality simulators. Why do we have to identify ourselves with this character but not the one of a movie or game ?


The answer does not matter, I only wanted to show that our lives are like a movie that our consciousness is watching and thinking it is the character in there.


If this is true. We don´t have to suffer because it is the character who suffers not the consciousness.

That is an interesting way of putting it…

Tangible God
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life? We are the Mind. Everything that makes you who you are, and is not part of your body, is the Mind. The Mind is what thinks, and judges, and analyzes, and critiques. We are both the slaves and slave masters. To disconnect yourself from your Mind is a paradoxical situation since you'd either die or cease to be if you did that. Weeding out your weaknesses and undesirable aspects is the key to creating a sense of fulfilling enlightenment.

lancethebrave
I would say that we are enslaved to it, and since very few people in history have been able to control it, and because they say we in fact use only 10% of the brain, the other 90% has to be doing something, and these are the things we cannot control, this is the subconscious the part of the brain that decides with were schizophrenic, anorexic, or cant see or have ADHD it is the part of the mind that doesn't want us to have control, we eventually have the ability to suppress these things usually while we are still very little, why do you think they have imaginary friends? they have not yet suppressed them, which can be both a good and a bad thing

teampac08
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?

One is enslaved in the sense because emotions are involved. We are not entirely trapped by our mind. Our mind is what can free us or "enslave" us. It takes consideration from our mind to acknowledge such theories as yours, right? Our mind is what makes us unique from any other species. Yet through emotions and events that we cannot control in our lives we humans are connected to a flawed life. No such thing as perfection in this world. Sometimes our emotions blind us from truly thinking. Many religions who seek enlightenment arent willing to give up their minds but rather their emotions and connections to this world.

ragesRemorse
i dont think it is our minds we are enslaved to. It is our current perspectives. The momment that you break free from your old way of thinking and embrace a new perspective is freedom.

Society probably has more to do with our enslavement than anything else. Our society influences our perspective without us even knowing it.

LordFear
Essentially religions such as Buddhism attempt to teach one that if one frees his/her mind ie desires, baser instincts and overall ego and allow himself to detach himslef from the materialistic plane, one can achieve nirvana. Complete freedom from one's mind where one is actually truly in command of their mind, body and soul.

Deano
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?

true

we can never be free untill we start thinking for ourselves

Atlantis001
I think we should make a distinction between mind and consciousness.

We are the consciousness. The consciousness is just aware of the mind and identifies itself with it. When we identify our consciousness with the mind its when we become ourselves and became slaves of our emotions and suffering.

ADarksideJedi
I am not sure if we are or not.I have to say no because of free will.If we do'nt want to do something and our mind says do it.We don't!We have the power not to listen to the little voice in our head and annore it.JM

goatstradamus
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I am not sure if we are or not.I have to say no because of free will.If we do'nt want to do something and our mind says do it.We don't!We have the power not to listen to the little voice in our head and annore it.JM

Yea, I agree that we can choose to not listen to our minds sometimes, but what I am referring to is whats rooted in our subconscious and emotional memories.
Essentially blind reaction to our own mind. Like, for example, your mind perceives something as threatening, which triggers fear, but instead of stepping back and observing your mind and feelings, you immediately become afraid, which then triggers something else and so forth and so on.
The big problem is that we may have reached a point in society where everybody is constantly reacting to everything and we don't even know it, some worse then others. I think excessive anxiety is the number one complaint given to psychologists and psychiatrists these days. Whats really scary is that we are becoming unable and unwilling to help ourselves and others, because we don't know whats wrong or how to fix it, because our minds do a great job of tricking us, its that damn ego you see?. We resort to stuff like pharmaceuticals or just distracting our minds constantly with T.V.

Instead of just observing our minds input and choosing what course to take, we react and take too much of the thoughts it gives us as literal. Our mind is made to worry about things, its how we have survived throughout the years. But when we our unable to stop it from worrying or when those worries become entwined with emotional reactions and we are unable to grasp whether or not something is actually worth worrying about, we go crazy. Think about obssesive compulsive disorder, its a classic example of what happens when we loose control to our minds. Another good example is any addiction.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.