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http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/Images/Characters/Apocalypse.jpg

vs

http://www.brendanmckillip.com/blog/images/martian.gif


which ubber shape shifter would come out on top after an arena battle ?

John with relative ease

why do you say that

MM is much more of a respectable independent character, not to mention capable of some incredible psychic and shapeshiftin power.

sadly apocalypse although he should by all means be a major threat, gets thwarted by the likes of the x-men and tends to job...

i'd give it to MM 7/10.

Wow, severe underrestimation for J'onn. Martian Manhunter for the win 10/10.

Apoc constanly jobs to the x men, that says enough........

haha id give him at least one, jon can't just fly through his brain and cross the cables everytime.

thats no fun

Originally posted by HisMajestyAC43
haha id give him at least one, jon can't just fly through his brain and cross the cables everytime.

thats no fun

Meh, I guess.

Originally posted by batdude123
Wow, severe underrestimation for J'onn. Martian Manhunter for the win 10/10.

Co-signed...I'm starting to hate the constand disrespect of MM...Why does he have to job so much?

Based on stats? Apocalypse 7/10.
Based on Character portrayals? MM 6/10

Originally posted by rotiart
Based on stats? Apocalypse 7/10.
Based on Character portrayals? MM 6/10

No, and no. Martian Manhunter realistically takes this one 10/10.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
Co-signed...I'm starting to hate the constand disrespect of MM...Why does he have to job so much?

No idea.

Like someone else said, Apocalypse has stood up against the High Evolutionary. He tangled with the Hulk, and messed with Wolverine. He should be able to have a good showing against MM. Its just that the writers won't allow it. Honestly since Apocalypse is such a dehumanized character, they turned him into a petty thug to be knocked around. Thats why I hate him. Its whats happened to Darkseid.

According to Marvel Directory.com Apocalypse is in the 100 ton range.

Strength Level: Since Apocalypse can increase his strength by drawing on outside energy sources, his strength is potentially incalculable.

Known Superhuman Powers: Apocalypse is a mutant who possesses superhuman strength which he can augment by psionically drawing on outside energy sources. Apocalypse can alter the atomic structure of his body at will in order to change his form. He can even increase his size by taking on additional mass from a presumably extra-dimensional source. Through his ability to alter his form, Apocalypse can give himself virtually any superhuman physical power. Apocalypse's "costume" is actually part of his body, and he can psionically alter its appearance at will. He can levitate himself telekinetically.

Apocalypse has an extraordinarily long life span that has already lasted thousands of years. He can survive for weeks without food or water and can rapidly recover from injuries that would prove fatal to normal human beings. In the future, however, his physical form will eventually grow too aged and enfeebled to contain his vast superhuman energies. Hence, he will transfer his consciousness and powers into a succession of host bodies, abandoning each one when it too grows too old to contain his power.

Like I said, I hate the character, because the way he's portrayed, he's a 5,000 year old man thats never really learned how to use his powers well in a fight. He must have like... senility or something.

Originally posted by rotiart
Like someone else said, Apocalypse has stood up against the High Evolutionary. He tangled with the Hulk, and messed with Wolverine. He should be able to have a good showing against MM. Its just that the writers won't allow it. Honestly since Apocalypse is such a dehumanized character, they turned him into a petty thug to be knocked around. Thats why I hate him. Its whats happened to Darkseid.

According to Marvel Directory.com Apocalypse is in the 100 ton range.

Strength Level: Since Apocalypse can increase his strength by drawing on outside energy sources, his strength is potentially incalculable.

Known Superhuman Powers: Apocalypse is a mutant who possesses superhuman strength which he can augment by psionically drawing on outside energy sources. Apocalypse can alter the atomic structure of his body at will in order to change his form. He can even increase his size by taking on additional mass from a presumably extra-dimensional source. Through his ability to alter his form, Apocalypse can give himself virtually any superhuman physical power. Apocalypse's "costume" is actually part of his body, and he can psionically alter its appearance at will. He can levitate himself telekinetically.

Apocalypse has an extraordinarily long life span that has already lasted thousands of years. He can survive for weeks without food or water and can rapidly recover from injuries that would prove fatal to normal human beings. In the future, however, his physical form will eventually grow too aged and enfeebled to contain his vast superhuman energies. Hence, he will transfer his consciousness and powers into a succession of host bodies, abandoning each one when it too grows too old to contain his power.

Like I said, I hate the character, because the way he's portrayed, he's a 5,000 year old man thats never really learned how to use his powers well in a fight. He must have like... senility or something.

Big friggin deal. He's small time in comparison to Martian Manhunter. Seriously, MM wins 10/10.

Well I just like the part where it says he can potentially change his molecular structure to have any given superhuman physical power...

Not that he uses it... but its there.

So 10/10 is a little bit high. don't you think? just saying apocalypse would still lose, it just wouldn't be a sweep.

Originally posted by batdude123
Wow, severe underrestimation for J'onn. Martian Manhunter for the win 10/10.

I know, the guy can beat Superman

And yet he's being put up against a B-Class character like Apocolyse

There's a reason that Apoclypse died, because everybody hates him

MM turns into a table-leg , Apocalypse then dies of fright.

MM wins

battle of the jobbers.

Originally posted by Grimm22
I know, the guy can beat Superman



That's debatable right there, but all in all I agree.

Tie 5/10 for both

none jobbing unknown he can teleport BFR might not work, a mind rape would probably work though.

Doubt it considering Prof.X can't mind rape Apoc. and he is a better telepath not by a lot but he is better

Originally posted by Broly92
Doubt it considering Prof.X can't mind rape Apoc. and he is a better telepath not by a lot but he is better

No, actually MM is the better telepath. We are talking about a guy who scans the minds of everybody on the planet unaided. That's more than I can say for Prof X *coughCEREBROcough*. Anyway Broly, you underestimate MM. Martian Manhunter could actually speedblitz Apoc.

Part Two.

I don't see how Apoc would do much of anything to MM, MM can just go intangible and phse him into an object, or Martian laser him to death from the Atmosphere etc etc MM takes this 8/10 fairly easily

To bad their both used as lame fallback characters typically.

Well, Cable, X-man and Jean couldn't mind rape Celestial power upped Wolverine, so something makes me think MM is going to have hard time mind raping Apocalypse. Still, MM takes this. Even just because this guy wears blue lipstick. 'nuff said.

MM has a great ability to scan minds, WONDERFUL it certainly doesn't make him more powerful then Charles it just means he's better at scanning minds.

Originally posted by Soleran
MM has a great ability to scan minds, WONDERFUL it certainly doesn't make him more powerful then Charles it just means he's better at scanning minds.

No, he is the stronger telepath of the two. Charles can't read minds over a 200 mile radius without Cerebro.

Originally posted by batdude123
No, he is the stronger telepath of the two. Charles can't read minds over a 200 mile radius without Cerebro.

Uh huh, once again let me CLARIFY my statement so you won't READ into it..............

I said he is better at scanning minds of a large distance, GREAT that means he's a better mind reader but not nec a STRONGER telepath then Charles unless you totally gauge a Telepath's ability on the range at which he can scan...............................which I doubt since that is just once facet of that particular powerset, wouldn't you agree with that.

Anyway, speedblitz and Apoc dies.

Originally posted by batdude123
Anyway, speedblitz and Apoc dies.


anyway its not speedblitz, its SPEEDBLITZ in yo face Apoc lovers!

dosent apoc have sheilds?

I did say Apoc could win 2/10 Seriously when was the last time Apoc took on someone like MM with that speed and powerset and came out Victorious?


Apoc's Shields didn't help him with Cable now did it?

Originally posted by Soleran
Uh huh, once again let me CLARIFY my statement so you won't READ into it..............

I said he is better at scanning minds of a large distance, GREAT that means he's a better mind reader but not nec a STRONGER telepath then Charles unless you totally gauge a Telepath's ability on the range at which he can scan...............................which I doubt since that is just once facet of that particular powerset, wouldn't you agree with that.

Not necessarily because it proves that he can't extend his mind any farther than a 200 mile radius when MM can scan the entire globe by himself with reletive ease. That suggests that MM's tp is stronger because he isn't confined to a specific area. Charles even when he tries to exert himself can't do it, so in essence it does make a sign that points to MM being the stronger telepath.

Originally posted by batdude123
Not necessarily because it proves that he can't extend his mind any farther than a 200 mile radius when MM can scan the entire globe by himself with reletive ease. That suggests that MM's tp is stronger because he isn't confined to a specific area. Charles even when he tries to exert himself can't do it, so in essence it does make a sign that points to MM being the stronger telepath.

Your spinning words here , do you work for a newspaper by chance I spoke to recently?


Uh huh, once again let me CLARIFY my statement so you won't READ into it..............



Please, before you post on this again make sure it address's what I discussed and not just you rambling over my words without further addressing the subject! Batboy!

Originally posted by Soleran
Your spinning words here , do you work for a newspaper by chance I spoke to recently?


Uh huh, once again let me CLARIFY my statement so you won't READ into it..............



Please, before you post on this again make sure it address's what I discussed and not just you rambling over my words without further addressing the subject! Batboy!

Well, what in your crazy mind makes a stronger telepath?

Originally posted by batdude123
Well, what in your crazy mind makes a stronger telepath?

Before I give you my opinion on that let me ask this, What are some of the other skills associated with telepathy aside from scanning?

Originally posted by Soleran
Before I give you my opinion on that let me ask this, What are some of the other skills associated with telepathy aside from scanning?

RANGE OF POWER, illusions, shutting down minds, controlling their minds, etc.

MM isn't a better telepath than Chuck.
Magneto messed with the poles of Earth, so it isn't possible to scan the Marvel Earth without aid.
Has someone did the same and handicapped DC earth yet??

Saying that MM is a better telepath cuz he can scan the Earth, is like saying my lil cousin is faster than me in a race, when his father who's my uncle put 20 lb weights around my ankles to slow me down.

For all intents and purposes, the two are relatively equal.

And Apoc is highly resistant to tp.
Not immune, but resistant the way Superman is.
And i never see people giving MM 10/10 over him due to a mindrape.

I actually think Apoc can take 5/10. Both job, and are far less than what they could be. Apoc is pretty much a child of the celestials.

Originally posted by batdude123
RANGE OF POWER, illusions, shutting down minds, controlling their minds, etc.

i don't think apoc would be effected with a mind attack, someone said that professor X couldn't attack apoc's mind, and cable as well cant..
Apocalypse as well is a excellent telepath as well, which is why his mind can not be reached .

Originally posted by batdude123
RANGE OF POWER, illusions, shutting down minds, controlling their minds, etc.

Ok so it's pretty fair to say that range of power is just one of 4 powers you listed, we won't clutter the list anymore fo now.

So MM has shown a great power degree in one aspect of 4, you answered your own piece, MM displaying greater range doesn't nec make him a better Telepath, it simply means he can scan FARTHER then Charles. So it would seem we should be on the same page now, MM can scan farther but being as thats 1 of 4 doesn't make him a stronger telepath overall.

Originally posted by Priest
i don't think apoc would be effected with a mind attack, someone said that professor X couldn't attack apoc's mind, and cable as well cant..
Apocalypse as well is a excellent telepath as well, which is why his mind can not be reached .

Even so, Martian Manhunter has a slew of other powers that he would use to kick Apoc's ass with.

Originally posted by Soleran
Ok so it's pretty fair to say that range of power is just one of 4 powers you listed, we won't clutter the list anymore fo now.

So MM has shown a great power degree in one aspect of 4, you answered your own piece, MM displaying greater range doesn't nec make him a better Telepath, it simply means he can scan FARTHER then Charles. So it would seem we should be on the same page now, MM can scan farther but being as thats 1 of 4 doesn't make him a stronger telepath overall.

However, he has demonstrated things out of Xavier's reach on basically all of those.

These characters have a lot in common. Both are bald, both shapeshifters, both very powerful but never depicted using their potentials, and both job. As written, MM 10/10. If both to fought to their potential, Apocalypse would take it 5.5/10.

Originally posted by batdude123
Even so, Martian Manhunter has a slew of other powers that he would use to kick Apoc's ass with.
yea so does appoc, (he may have more powers actually)..

Originally posted by batdude123
However, he has demonstrated things out of Xavier's reach on basically all of those.


Oh I see, is this like an I told you so speech? What has he done to demonstrate these skills you profess? Now you have to prove MM can outdo Xavier on all 4 unless your bluffing here.

Better make a new thread, I would hate to see Apoc lose even in a thread about himself when a new character gets discussed:P

Hmmm...

MM:
Vast strength (Well beyond class 100)
Incredibly fast
Intangibility
Shapeshifting (Causes mental strain after hours in said shape)
Telepathy/Mind Control
Able to add mass, density and size by "borrowing" from other object
High level of durability minus weakness to fire

Apoc:
Class 100 strength and beyond (Enough to choke out the Hulk) and able to psionically augment strength further thru extra-dimensional sources.
Very high level of Durability
Psionic Defense Capable of rendering Xavier unconscious
Superior shapeshifting abilities (Through his shape-shifting ability, Apocalypse can give himself virtually any physical power.) He can also remain in said state indefinitely.
Incredible intellect. Genius level in biology and genetics.

While I'm in no way an expert on MM, I think this fight is closer than you guys think. Apoc appears to have superior shapechanging abilities, while MM obviously starts out physically stronger and waaaaaay faster. Using forum rules, which include no jobbing and characters fighting at peak ability, I think MM wins 6, 7/10.

Originally posted by Soleran
Oh I see, is this like an I told you so speech? What has he done to demonstrate these skills you profess? Now you have to prove MM can outdo Xavier on all 4 unless your bluffing here.

Better make a new thread, I would hate to see Apoc lose even in a thread about himself when a new character gets discussed:P

Try mind controlling the entire JLA including Plastic Man who's brain is immune to telepathy. Also, including Superman who shook of the effects of Despero's telepathy.

Martian Manhunter is so powerful he had to defeat himself in telepathic combat to save the world.

Originally posted by Juntai
Martian Manhunter is so powerful he had to defeat himself in telepathic combat to save the world.

BINGO!!!

Originally posted by batdude123
Try mind controlling the entire JLA including Plastic Man who's brain is immune to telepathy. Also, including Superman who shook of the effects of Despero's telepathy.


Uh is that PIS, I mean if Fernus couldn't do that to Plastic man but now MM can seems odd, right?

If it took Max years to overcome Superman and MM does it on a moments notice that doesn't sit well with Superman does it?

GL's rings protect them from Mind Control but now MM bypass's all that, weird isn't it?

Despero ravaged MM , now somehow MM flips this to control Superman, kinda odd.

So my point is if thats your best evidence you should ask yourself is it credible looking at the feats of other characters involved, SM, WW (who can resist control by Gods), GL's....................

So you have 2 (thats assuming Charles couldn't do that as well.) 2 more

Originally posted by Soleran
Uh is that PIS, I mean if Fernus couldn't do that to Plastic man but now MM can seems odd, right?

If it took Max years to overcome Superman and MM does it on a moments notice that doesn't sit well with Superman does it?

GL's rings protect them from Mind Control but now MM bypass's all that, weird isn't it?

Despero ravaged MM , now somehow MM flips this to control Superman, kinda odd.

So my point is if thats your best evidence you should ask yourself is it credible looking at the feats of other characters involved, SM, WW (who can resist control by Gods), GL's....................

So you have 2 (thats assuming Charles couldn't do that as well.) 2 more

Oh really??? Since when can WW resist mind controll by gods now?? Did you just make that one up? Oh you're good. However, Despero caught MM off guard. More recently, Martian Manhunter put up a resistence to Despero in a battle. For the GL matter, Kyle didn't have his shield or any kind of construct up for that matter. He was just a sitting duck. It's not really that big of a stretch. Let's be honest: Max Lord<<<<<<<<Martian Manhunter. Also, about the Plastic Man thing. Martian Manhunter had to actually lock away Fernus in his mind so that the fate of the world wouldn't be at stake. He mindcontrolled Fernus away. So, there's really nothing that much wrong with the feat.

Originally posted by Soleran
So you have 2 (thats assuming Charles couldn't do that as well.) 2 more

once again read the whole response, my question was rhetorical.

Originally posted by Soleran
once again read the whole response, my question was rhetorical.

Sorry. Anyway, here he is casting mind illusions on White Martians who are telepathic gods in their own right.

Originally posted by Soleran
once again read the whole response, my question was rhetorical.

Damn, it's not loading. Hold on.

Prof.X and MM are about equal now that I think about it

Originally posted by batdude123
Sorry. Anyway, here he is casting mind illusions on White Martians who are telepathic gods in their own right.

Here we are:

http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=martianmanhuntervswhitemartian.jpg

Originally posted by batdude123
Sorry. Anyway, here he is casting mind illusions on White Martians who are telepathic gods in their own right.

Yeah, as far as the white martians and god like I don't buy so much as the JLA walking through them the way they did in the end. Or how WW fought one tooth and nail when all it had to do was use it's TP godhood as you call it to subdue her.

Ok, there's 3..............one more from the MM respect thread please.

Originally posted by Soleran
Yeah, as far as the white martians and god like I don't buy so much as the JLA walking through them the way they did in the end. Or how WW fought one tooth and nail when all it had to do was use it's TP godhood as you call it to subdue her.

Ok, there's 3..............one more from the MM respect thread please.

1. Are you joking??? The White Martians took over the entire planet basically. The JLA by no means just walked right through them. If you get the chance, pick JLA: Terror Incognita.

2. Those are my scans. They aren't from the respect thread, however I'll see what else I can find.

Originally posted by batdude123
1. Are you joking??? The White Martians took over the entire planet basically. The JLA by no means just walked right through them. If you get the chance, pick JLA: Terror Incognita.

2. Those are my scans. They aren't from the respect thread, however I'll see what else I can find.

ok where is my fourth scan, also its very subjective as to whether or not the illusion is better then charles or the mind blipping but almost there.

Originally posted by Soleran
ok where is my fourth scan, also its very subjective as to whether or not the illusion is better then charles or the mind blipping but almost there.

This is all I have to say about Martian Manhunter: http://www.metronews.ca/uploadedImages/books-jla_article.jpg

The guy telepathically controlled Fernus and put him in the back of his mind in order to save the entire world from having it run loose.

Uh, yeah Xavier<<<<<<Manhunter

Originally posted by batdude123
This is all I have to say about Martian Manhunter: http://www.metronews.ca/uploadedImages/books-jla_article.jpg

The guy telepathically controlled Fernus and put him in the back of his mind in order to save the entire world from having it run loose.

Uh, yeah Xavier<<<<<<Manhunter

I don't know if I really buy into your pictures in the end Charles rolls pretty hard in that chair he has gangsta bling with those wheels of his.

So if all those pictures are true you not only showed that MM is above Charles but he should beat the shi out of Superman as well, its like 2 birds with one stone

Apoc still takes a huge dirt nap.

Originally posted by Soleran
I don't know if I really buy into your pictures in the end Charles rolls pretty hard in that chair he has gangsta bling with those wheels of his.

Ah, good point. His wheelchair has spinners on them.

Originally posted by Soleran
So if all those pictures are true you not only showed that MM is above Charles but he should beat the shi out of Superman as well, its like 2 birds with one stone

Apoc still takes a huge dirt nap.

Pretty much. Although, it is still debatable who would win between Supes and Manhunter, but other than that I agree.

Originally posted by batdude123
Pretty much. Although, it is still debatable who would win between Supes and Manhunter, but other than that I agree.

Anything and everything is debatable, however thats just a copout answer

Originally posted by Soleran
Anything and everything is debatable, however thats just a copout answer

Whatever you say, although they are very close in power.

Originally posted by batdude123
Whatever you say, although they are very close in power.

Actually it would be , whatever you say Your conclusion is it's debatable, I agree.

Originally posted by Soleran
Actually it would be , whatever you say Your conclusion is it's debatable, I agree.

Yeah, they are basically neck and neck.

J'onn takes this 9/10. The one being if Apoc remembers he can give himself other powers.

Originally posted by Private Pion
J'onn takes this 9/10. The one being if Apoc remembers he can give himself other powers.

And that's a big "if." When Apocalypse realizes he can do more than just get bigger, he would've already been speedblitzed by then.

Originally posted by batdude123
And that's a big "if." When Apocalypse realizes he can do more than just get bigger, he would've already been speedblitzed by then.

Exactly. I would have made it something like 9.9 recurring/10 but...

Aw man, I just did!

I still say tie Jonzz has not shown anything to prove diffrently

Originally posted by Broly92
I still say tie Jonzz has not shown anything to prove diffrently

Uh huh did you just see the same scans I did with MM that batdude123 presented?

Show me Apoc doing something similar..............please don't say something like beating down hulk either lol.

What about becoming ruler of the world AOA

Originally posted by Broly92
What about becoming ruler of the world AOA

Yeah and what about Magneto at half power of 616 ripping him in half lol! OK next attempt!

yea okay he still was ruler!!!!
I believe Apocalypse should be Much stronger than MM if written good

Originally posted by Broly92
yea okay he still was ruler!!!!
I believe Apocalypse should be Much stronger than MM if written good

Wrong. They both have shapeshifting abilities, so they are basically even in that department. However, J'onn has him beat in the speed department where it really counts.

Originally posted by Broly92
yea okay he still was ruler!!!!
I believe Apocalypse should be Much stronger than MM if written good
if written well

Nooooooo fear someone who knows grammar!!!!!

Originally posted by batdude123
This is all I have to say about Martian Manhunter: http://www.metronews.ca/uploadedImages/books-jla_article.jpg

The guy telepathically controlled Fernus and put him in the back of his mind in order to save the entire world from having it run loose.

Uh, yeah Xavier<<<<<<Manhunter

Manhunter talked to the entire superhero community on earth without much thought

Xavier needs Cerebro (or is it Cerebra?!?) to even come close to that.

Plus, he's not crippled

Originally posted by Grimm22
Manhunter talked to the entire superhero community on earth without much thought

Xavier needs Cerebro (or is it Cerebra?!?) to even come close to that.

Plus, he's not crippled

Damn straight.

DC earth hasn't been handicapped the way MArvels was. So thats kinda not fair. Chuck was scanning the cosmos before Erik changed things, iirc.

I thiny Apoxy takes this by the slimmist of margins.

Originally posted by complexbrother
I thiny Apoxy takes this by the slimmist of margins.

And you'd think wrong. Apoc takes a dirt nap here 9/10.

people are severly underestimating En Sabah Nur .

Originally posted by complexbrother
people are severly underestimating En Sabah Nur .

People severly underestimate J'onn J'onnz.

Originally posted by complexbrother
people are severly underestimating En Sabah Nur . Not really. MM wins.

On a side note, telepathy is something that requires both skill and power, the former moreso than the latter even.. as shown by Emma Frost being able to pwn Rachel Summers.

APOC ftw

Martian Manhunter

Didn't Apocalypse battle Jean Grey on the astral plane?

Anyways, MM should take this.

apoc is immortal, no death for him