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Good Vs Evil

Good Forces Vs Evil Forces in the World, who would win. Also, Who are the good forces, and evil forces. Look at this from two different perspectives and vote for who you think would win in our society. Would Good Win, Aka the government, police and such. Or Do the Evil win?

I know that there is going to be people who just vote Evil because they think like this:

"I be su 1337 man1!11!!!! I stole sum gurls pantys ha181!!!111!!!! m su eval"

Well, They're idiots.

Also, some people will vote good because they think like this:

"Good always wins because good can never lose!!!! Don't you read comic books LUSER!!!!!! jeesh I'm SUPER CEREAL!!!!"

I'm looking for people with good comments and thoughts, reasons why Good could possibly be better then Evil, or vice versa.

*There Isn't a Poll because I don't want people voting without making a good thought comment, so by peoples Posts we will see who wins*

Now Debate!

vincent

Originally posted by Vinny Valentine
Good Vs Evil

Good Forces Vs Evil Forces in the World, who would win. Also, Who are the good forces, and evil forces. Look at this from two different perspectives and vote for who you think would win in our society. Would Good Win, Aka the government, police and such. Or Do the Evil win?

I know that there is going to be people who just vote Evil because they think like this:

"I be su 1337 man1!11!!!! I stole sum gurls pantys ha181!!!111!!!! m su eval"

Well, They're idiots.

Also, some people will vote good because they think like this:

"Good always wins because good can never lose!!!! Don't you read comic books LUSER!!!!!! jeesh I'm so Serial!!!!"

I'm looking for people with good comments and thoughts, reasons why Good could possibly be better then Evil, or vice versa.

*There Isn't a Poll because I don't want people voting without making a good thought comment, so by peoples Posts we will see who wins*

Now Debate!

vincent



Where have you been man?!! The good guys have already won, now we're just going through a clean up process on all the bad guys. The remaining time of the "bad guys" is short, so they're just out there trying to live up the little time they have before we completely exterminate them.

there is no such thing as evil or good governments. if you are talking about an all out war then it depends of what what country it is. all have different beliefs on what is good or evil. to just say that good always win is not good enough. because we have assume one country is evil while they say we are good and they assume that we are evil while we think we aren't evil. governments are mostly optimistic and hide their true identity.their is no such thing as good vs. evil in any war because they can be both good vs. good or evil vs. evil. or even half good vs. half evil.most governmental views change all the time it is kind of like star wars you are once on the dark side and then you turn back to the light side vice versa. it is like you can be good one day while the next day you become a blood thirsty murderer, it contradicts itself all the time. everyone has the potential to be both good and evil and none will ever have the edge over the other because sometimes you don't know for certain if what you are doing is good or not. if would be like a billionaire donates millions of dollars to certain organizations and is treated like a god, but in reality this person cheats the very associates working under this person is is disregard by the associates but is treated like a god by the media and the people who believe it. none will win because you don't know which government is truly good or evil.

Originally posted by Vinny Valentine
Good Vs Evil

Good Forces Vs Evil Forces in the World, who would win. Also, Who are the good forces, and evil forces. Look at this from two different perspectives and vote for who you think would win in our society. Would Good Win, Aka the government, police and such. Or Do the Evil win?

I know that there is going to be people who just vote Evil because they think like this:

"I be su 1337 man1!11!!!! I stole sum gurls pantys ha181!!!111!!!! m su eval"

Well, They're idiots.

Also, some people will vote good because they think like this:

"Good always wins because good can never lose!!!! Don't you read comic books LUSER!!!!!! jeesh I'm SUPER CEREAL!!!!"

I'm looking for people with good comments and thoughts, reasons why Good could possibly be better then Evil, or vice versa.

*There Isn't a Poll because I don't want people voting without making a good thought comment, so by peoples Posts we will see who wins*

Now Debate!

vincent


Well it's a hard topic to discuss since good and evil varies from person to person.

Originally posted by cking
there is no such thing as evil or good governments. if you are talking about an all out war then it depends of what what country it is. all have different beliefs on what is good or evil. to just say that good always win is not good enough. because we have assume one country is evil while they say we are good and they assume that we are evil while we think we aren't evil. governments are mostly optimistic and hide their true identity.their is no such thing as good vs. evil in any war because they can be both good vs. good or evil vs. evil. or even half good vs. half evil.most governmental views change all the time it is kind of like star wars you are once on the dark side and then you turn back to the light side vice versa. it is like you can be good one day while the next day you become a blood thirsty murderer, it contradicts itself all the time. everyone has the potential to be both good and evil and none will ever have the edge over the other because sometimes you don't know for certain if what you are doing is good or not. if would be like a billionaire donates millions of dollars to certain organizations and is treated like a god, but in reality this person cheats the very associates working under this person is is disregard by the associates but is treated like a god by the media and the people who believe it. none will win because you don't know which government is truly good or evil.

I'm talking about all over Evil, Like an Evil Force, or Good.


Angels Vs Demons, I guess you could look at it.


Evil people will try to find an EASY way to kill an find the way to win. Aka Assassins, But Good would be honorable and go in a full front, like be good about it.

I know I'm being very open about that but yeah, I think Its easier to get

Originally posted by Eis
Well it's a hard topic to discuss since good and evil varies from person to person.


Makes It a Good Debate then.

if you want a demons vs. angels debate or god vs. Satan debate then the religion forum is the place to be. there are plenty of bashing and debates in that forum.

Originally posted by cking
if you want a demons vs. angels debate or god vs. Satan debate then the religion forum is the place to be. there are plenty of bashing and debates in that forum.

I didn't Literally Mean Angel vs Demon!

I just mean the inner people, It boils down Good Vs Evil, Angels Vs Demons, Terrorists Vs Infidels.


See what I Mean?


It's just a Good Vs Evil Debate.

The world goes beyond mere good and evil. It's very relative. I live by the rule (at least try to) of doing to others what I'd want them to do to me.

Originally posted by Wonderer
The world goes beyond mere good and evil. It's very relative. I live by the rule (at least try to) of doing to others what I'd want them to do to me.


Good Way to Think, Unless your mind is corrupt.

Originally posted by Vinny Valentine
Good Way to Think, Unless your mind is corrupt.
Exactly, you illustrate my point that it's all relative: one person's mind might think somethings good, while it's evil in the mind of another - then you have conflict.

Neither should win. Both should be in balance.

thats right none will win. it is really a tie.

It's the age old debate...good vs. evil. In a superhero comic book sense good must always win. Because if Evil wins...there is no more good. Who would want to live in a world where there is nothing good to live for?

Good wins hands down.

Because it does so in comic books?

To be quite honest Comic books captures a fictional image of good and evil very well.

Good vs. Evil?

cloud vs. sephiroth
tidus vs. seymour

Yeah, I agree with Omega. What do we have to consider as good and what as evil. Oh..and in the end John Constantine wins anyways.

No one decides what's good and evil. It's their oppinion. Some things seem reasonable, others seem unreasonable.

To be honest, people should do what's best for themself. Not other people.

Originally posted by lord xyz
No one decides what's good and evil. It's their oppinion. Some things seem reasonable, others seem unreasonable.

To be honest, people should do what's best for themself. Not other people.

So basically you say everyone decides what is good or evil for themself.....I agree.

But is he asking which is actually winning (with that assuming there is an absolute good and evil) or which we as individuals believe to be stronger in the world we live in (subjectively)

I think there's a cycle. I don't beleive in a "Final Victory" for good, evil, or neutral.

Before I continue let me clarify my beleifs, to make the rest of my argument easier to follow, cuz i tend to confuse people a lot:

1) I beleive that good, evil, and neutrality all exist. I also beleive that a LACK of good, evil, or neutrality can also exist in specific instances.

2) I beleive that anything that goes against our natural desire to unify is evil/bad. I beleive that all Social Creatures, especially human beings, are born with the urge to not only "fit in" but be with someone, i do not belevie that anyone truly likes to be alone, or truly likes to be in conflict.

3) Ergo, i beleive that Conflict is ultamately a result of our inability to see past fears, differences, and biases and failure to Unify. This is not to suggest that Conflict is avoidable, or that disunity is ALL our faults. Circumstances are sometimes stronger than choice.

4) Finally, I beleive that Ultamate Evils to be those of inflicting Murder, Torture, or Control over another person. To me, these 3 are the top.





Okay, having stated that:


Although I do not respect Evil, or its possible "role" in any balance, I do beleive that it is undeniably a part of our existance, and not something that we are capable of erradicating, only limitting.

It seems to me there are cycles of good and bad, i.e. periods of peace and war, periods of pleasure and pain, periods of understanding and ignorance, etc.etc.etc.

As "good" as things can get (for example the raising of social equality and civil rights) things can get JUST as bad, if not worse (the rise of hurricanes and effects of global warming). I beleive the same goes for people. I beleive that people use up peace and violence, that people use up unity and disunity.

Once people start taking unity for granted, they start giving in to the pleasures of harming another person and feeling superior. Once people realize how destructive, harmful, and pointless disunity is, they try going back to achieving unity, and then back to disunity, and again and again....we as a human race need to mature lol

Originally posted by Bardock42
So basically you say everyone decides what is good or evil for themself.....I agree.

But is he asking which is actually winning (with that assuming there is an absolute good and evil) or which we as individuals believe to be stronger in the world we live in (subjectively) That's something to discuss. For e.g.

Murder. Everyone straight away thinks it's bad. But is it?

It really depends on who the culprit and victim are, the effects of the murder and what would have happened if the murder had not been commited.

Same goes for a lie.

After all, Benito Mussolini was murdered.

Realistically their is no 'good' or 'evil' .

Their are people whom have warped maidens whom believe what their doing is perfectly correct and fine , and then their are just the psychopaths whom can't help themselves.

But if we DO want to think about this realistically then Evil will most certainly win. Mainly because good won't jump to extremes such as nuking the hero and the surrounding occupant with a 500 megaton bomb.

It all comes down to who's more cunning.

right,wrong,good and evil are just limitations we put upon ourselves. We are simply animals who were born without those limitations,and after years of being exposed to society and others' beliefs, we think that these four choices actually exist when they don't. In different countries right,wrong,good and evil are different to them. In the Middle East, it isn't considered wrong to have 10 wives. Here it is. It isn't considered wrong to blow yourself up and take countless lives with you for your beliefs.

IMO

Neither would win...They're both a necessary part of the world....It's an age old battle, and it'll stay like that till time ends.

If everyone agrees that good and evil are oppinions and no one can decide which is better, why are still posting in this dumb thread?

Ah the age old battle of Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism...

Personally I go with Moral Absolutism because there is no way you can convince me that things such as rape is not an evil and disgusting act.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Originally posted by Arcana
Ah the age old battle of Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism...

Personally I go with Moral Absolutism because there is no way you can convince me that things such as rape is not an evil and disgusting act.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Why are they absolutely disgusting acts though?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Why are they absolutely disgusting acts though?
Do I really need to answer this? Are you trying to tell me that rape is not disgusting? If you never have I suggest you speak with a woman who has experienced rape. Rape is sicking and disgusting, good or evil aside.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Originally posted by Arcana
Do I really need to answer this? Are you trying to tell me that rape is not disgusting? If you never have I suggest you speak with a woman who has experienced rape. Rape is sicking and disgusting, good or evil aside.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Sickening and disgusting to you, right?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sickening and disgusting to you, right?

But not to you. Rape, Torture, and any other gruesomely painful action is neutral to you.

Wow...I'm sure as hell Glad, YOU aint President

to quote the king of knowing which way to go (i.e Bender) "Good, Evil, they're both fine choises." or if thats not good enough, Billy West (as god) "Good and Evil are just words, its what you DO that matters"

hmm

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But not to you. Rape, Torture, and any other gruesomely painful action is neutral to you.

Wow...I'm sure as hell Glad, YOU aint President

Yeah, well, no...they are not neutral to me, they are sickening and disgusting to me...but they are neutral on an absolute scale. You need to get the difference.

Indeed, good points.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Did you read a lot of comic books?

Some really are interesting portrayals of "good" and "evil" and the scales in between. I'm particularly thinking about Watchmen and Hellblazer comics. It's just another medium, so if it can be portrayed in books and films chances are it also happens in Comics. Of course there are rather simple black white ones as well. I guess you are referring to those.

Was quite the Xmen fan a few years ago.
My problem with the "good" and "evil" in fiction is, that it is FICTIONAL. The hero and the villain are defined by the author, and often the portraits of them border on charicatures (sp?).
Especially in mainstream entertainment the hero is absolutely good and the villain absolutely evil -

Originally posted by The Omega
The Universe does not come equipped with morals. WE - humans - have defined morals. Therefore I find Bardocks question interesting... and the answers equally... interesting...

I fully understand your reasoning, but I must disagree with you.

1) You do not KNOW for certain if morals are just made up. You do not for sure if good and evil does not exist, you only believe this to be the "reality" of existance.

2) It seems to me that you suggest that the only things that truly exist are the physical, and that all mental existances are false/flawed/invalid/or non existant if they are not universally accepted. The mental/emotional existances are just as true as the physical ones.

3) Again since this is beleif vs beleif, neither of us can argue in absolutes or in terms of "fact". I beleive Morality to be both subjective AND intuitive. Intuitive meaning specifically coming from a source other than our concious minds/realm of opinion. If you would like me to extensively elaborate, I'd be happy 2

Originally posted by The Omega
Was quite the Xmen fan a few years ago.
My problem with the "good" and "evil" in fiction is, that it is FICTIONAL. The hero and the villain are defined by the author, and often the portraits of them border on charicatures (sp?).
Especially in mainstream entertainment the hero is absolutely good and the villain absolutely evil -

Wolverine isn't exactly the stereotype of an all good hero.

But I agree that under some circumstances such an approiach is used. Hardly in serious comic books nowadays though. And you could do the same for novels by only judging pulp fiction or dime novels.

Originally posted by The Omega
Was quite the Xmen fan a few years ago.
My problem with the "good" and "evil" in fiction is, that it is FICTIONAL. The hero and the villain are defined by the author, and often the portraits of them border on charicatures (sp?).
Especially in mainstream entertainment the hero is absolutely good and the villain absolutely evil -


Not Quite. Heroes like Spawn and Punisher are misunderstood people, people with intense flaws who verge on almost being villians.

SAme for Villians like Venom from Spiderman. He is evil due to his intense hatred of Peter Parker, and his intense hatred of criminals. His methods of vengeance are very cruel, lacking in any kind of empathy or mercy. However, he despises a sadistic villain named Carnage, and who wouldn't despise him?

Then you have even more complicated characters like Dawn by Joseph Micheal Linsner, Ingra from Crossgen Comics, etc.

Absolutes do not exist even in the comic books

The Age of Superman has passed.....

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not Quite. Heroes like Spawn and Punisher are misunderstood people, people with intense flaws who verge on almost being villians.


indeed, i think you need a balance of both to be able to make workable decisions. if you only want to do "good" then you'd be pretty limited, you could only do a few things before you had to be "evil" to get results.
i think evil is probably "easier" than good but it also shows a much more human element IMO.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
However, he despises a sadistic villain named Carnage, and who wouldn't despise him?

I...he's one of my favourites, I think I made a thread in teh CBVsF once. "Who's more ****ed up Cletus Kassidy or Joker" ....my threads don't go well...

Originally posted by tabby999
indeed, i think you need a balance of both to be able to make workable decisions. if you only want to do "good" then you'd be pretty limited, you could only do a few things before you had to be "evil" to get results.
i think evil is probably "easier" than good but it also shows a much more human element IMO.


I would agree. It is easier to be "evil", with or without that intent. Revenge is usually considered an evil desire, even when there is much justification for it, because no matter what, vengeance is aiming to hurt someone.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I...he's one of my favourites, I think I made a thread in teh CBVsF once. "Who's more ****ed up Cletus Kassidy or Joker" ....my threads don't go well...

I am on the comic book threads at KMC all the time. I did a "whose the most evil" thread, and both Carnage and Joker are on it !

However, they were beaten by a character named Billy Kincaid from Spawn.

Bump

Originally posted by Bardock42
Dunno, to an extend, then again he is also driven by his animal instincts, which is hardly a "pure" and "good" thing, he certainly is not a one dimensional character.


But they aren't in all Comics, I don't know what Comics you read, but it isn't all that clear and clean cut in Comics. If nothing else Hellblazer certainly isn't.

Comic Books are losing thier "clean cut" stereotypes now, because it is clear that they disconnect from reality too much.

However, something sickens me about a new comic book that recently came out. It it said to be the first "conservative comic book" out there, it displays Jesus Christ as a sort of super hero, he fights the Greek Gods and beats them....its so stupid

Not only is it obvious religious propaganda, but it also "misrepresents" Jesus....turning him from a figure of peace to a figure of war....either way, it's cheesy, corny, stupid bullshit.

Good will always triumph

Originally posted by DRAKONS
Good will always triumph

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Age of Superman has passed.....
Thats why I hate superman. Thanks goodness "hero's" arent like him any more.

Unbreakable.

Bump For Comments.

Originally posted by Vinny Valentine
Good Vs Evil

Good Forces Vs Evil Forces in the World, who would win. Also, Who are the good forces, and evil forces. Look at this from two different perspectives and vote for who you think would win in our society. Would Good Win, Aka the government, police and such. Or Do the Evil win?

I know that there is going to be people who just vote Evil because they think like this:

"I be su 1337 man1!11!!!! I stole sum gurls pantys ha181!!!111!!!! m su eval"

Well, They're idiots.

Also, some people will vote good because they think like this:

"Good always wins because good can never lose!!!! Don't you read comic books LUSER!!!!!! jeesh I'm SUPER CEREAL!!!!"

I'm looking for people with good comments and thoughts, reasons why Good could possibly be better then Evil, or vice versa.

*There Isn't a Poll because I don't want people voting without making a good thought comment, so by peoples Posts we will see who wins*

Now Debate!

vincent



Good and evil don't exist; no one wins.

well when you say good vs. evil it usually represents like the god vs. the devil. heaven from hell. i would say good would win because everytime good finds a way to win. ww2 . the police. in other hands evil wins because the bad guy ask questions. he opposes the law and what it says. they question the establishement and what it stands for instead of following blind like the good guys do. but either way one will remain and for us people we want good. you know what they say. we are our own worst enemy.

It is my opinion that there isn't good and evil, just difference in perspectives.

What Bardok brought up concerning rape is a good example. I don't advocate rape, since I don't find it to be acceptable, but to some people it is cool beans.

Another example would be the war between Spaniards and the Moors that lasted for over 700 years. Both of those sides thought they were fighting for the side of god. Who is to say which side was considered the good guys? They were both killing each other mercilessly, and when Spain got their act together, they were almost as fanatical as the Moors with the frontera and fanatical monk soldiers who patrolled the frontera.

Now this is also a personal opinion of mine, but concerning battle tactics, there is no good or evil. The idea of fighting "honorably" is flawed, mainly because I, and Patton, feel that you should make the enemy die for their country. That's just me though.

I'm bored now.

Bump for Debate.