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Can they occur, effectively?

Well, yes they exist. People practice it in other words. But personally I don't think it actually works.

if they doi got god on myside

Originally posted by Nazgulinthedark
Well, yes they exist. People practice it in other words. But personally I don't think it actually works.

Well yea, that's why I said can they occur effectively.

The wording doesnt make sense, but I was able to interptret your point.

Yes ,it does n does work effectively ,but it'a a sin 2 practice magic.

Originally posted by Alliance
The wording doesnt make sense, but I was able to interptret your point.

The wording is correct, grammatically and sensibly, you just misinterpreted it.

Again, what I meant was can those elements happen to someone.

Originally posted by maham
Yes ,it does n does work effectively ,but it'a a sin 2 practice magic.

Bah. If it actually was real, I see no reason why it should be a sin - the crime of witchcraft and the like was very much an assimilation tool of the Church to stamp out pagan belief that wasn't acceptable (read absorbed) into the Church.

Does it exist? People believe it does, just like people believe in lucky charms, holy water, tarot cards and so forth. Does that mean it is real? I wouldn't say so. A lot of it is drawn from mythological sources and figures, and such things get embellished over time, or used to explain things. And then there are the use of hallucinogenic substances or incenses in voodoo to bring about trances, the use of music, fasting and so on. It seem possible to correctly prepare a person so they experience something, but in the end it seems illusionary - which would bring us to hedge wizards and charlatans.

But who can say, people should be allowed to believe it if they want to. I have seen little evidence in the end, but then there is always a chance.

Originally posted by maham
Yes ,it does n does work effectively ,but it'a a sin 2 practice magic.

And pray tell how is it a sin? If someone practices VooDoo as a religion then it is clearly not a sin...They are not Christian, they do not abide by the 10 commandments...In other words, it is not a sin.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
And pray tell how is it a sin? If someone practices VooDoo as a religion then it is clearly not a sin...They are not Christian, they do not abide by the 10 commandments...In other words, it is not a sin.

From God's point of view--the only one that matters--practicing magic, voodoo, and the like IS a sin.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
From God's point of view--the only one that matters--practicing magic, voodoo, and the like IS a sin.

Like I said...They are not christian...There are no 10 commandments deeming what they do a sin....I would assume you are a christian...If you would practice magic, then THAT would be a sin...But them practicing magic, however, is not.

Darth Macabre,

God's Word, will, and laws are absolute and they apply to everyone whether everyone is obeying them or not.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Darth Macabre,

God's Word, will, and laws are absolute and they apply to everyone whether everyone is obeying them or not.

So tell me...How come the Ten Commandments weren't the first thing god said to his "prophets".


No offense to you, but that was a typical christian response...Believe in what we say, or suffer in Hades when you die.

Why are you so fixated on the Ten Commandments. God told the Israelites more than just ten things that He wanted them to do. God's Word is His will not just the ten commandments.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why are you so fixated on the Ten Commandments. God told the Israelites more than just ten things that He wanted them to do. God's Word is His will not just the ten commandments.

Because the ten commandments are the only thing written in stone, quite literally, that say Magic is a sin to all those who followed Moses...And since this thread's about magic, I am staying on topping...

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
So tell me...How come the Ten Commandments weren't the first thing god said to his "prophets".


No offense to you, but that was a typical christian response...Believe in what we say, or suffer in Hades when you die.

I have never told anyone to "BELIEVE IN WHAT I SAY OR SUFFER IN HADES WHEN YOU DIE."

I have simply told you what the Word says.

God gave the chilcren of Israel the "Law of Moses." The first five books of the Bible is referred to as the Law of Moses. God's prohibition about practicing magic is no where near the ten commandments, but it is contained in the Law of Moses.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive


I have simply told you what the Word says.

Exactly...That is God's word to his people...The one's who follow him...Those who don't follow him, however, do not abide by those laws.

God's law is absolute. You may not follow, heed, obey, or respect God or His Word now, but guess what? You, me, and every other person alive or dead is going to be judged based on God's law not on our own logic, rationalizations, or belief systems now.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God's law is absolute. You may not follow, heed, obey, or respect God or His Word now, but guess what? You, me, and every other person alive or dead is going to be judged based on God's law not on our own logic, rationalizations, or belief systems now.

God Condemns The Following Practices: Necromancy, Augury, Witchery, Interpreting Omens, Soothsaying, Sorcery, Conjuring Spells, The Practice Of Mediums i.e. Calling Up the Dead, Spiritism (or Spiritualism), Stargazing, Prognostication, Astrology, palm reading, consulting psychics, and horoscopes--Leviticus 19:31; Deuteronomy 18:10-15; Isaiah 47:12-15; Acts 9:11, 13:6-11, 16:16-19, 19:19

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why are you so fixated on the Ten Commandments. God told the Israelites more than just ten things that He wanted them to do. God's Word is His will not just the ten commandments.

i doubt you follow your gods instructiosn for arranging your candles on your table on the Sabbath.

in regards to voodoo, yes.
zombification works. It employs a form of seasonal blowfish toxin. Hexes work. they're just a lethal form of hypnotic sugestion

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God Condemns The Following Practices: Necromancy, Augury, Witchery, Interpreting Omens, Soothsaying, Sorcery, Conjuring Spells, The Practice Of Mediums i.e. Calling Up the Dead, Spiritism (or Spiritualism), Stargazing, Prognostication, Astrology, palm reading, consulting psychics, and horoscopes--Leviticus 19:31; Deuteronomy 18:10-15; Isaiah 47:12-15; Acts 9:11, 13:6-11, 16:16-19, 19:19

These things are an abomination to God.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God Condemns The Following Practices: Necromancy, Augury, Witchery, Interpreting Omens, Soothsaying, Sorcery, Conjuring Spells, The Practice Of Mediums i.e. Calling Up the Dead, Spiritism (or Spiritualism), Stargazing, Prognostication, Astrology, palm reading, consulting psychics, and horoscopes--Leviticus 19:31; Deuteronomy 18:10-15; Isaiah 47:12-15; Acts 9:11, 13:6-11, 16:16-19, 19:19

God is nothing but a judgemental arsehole.

Wicca is a religion. People who practice Wicca often cast spells, but they don't cast spells to harm people-that is not allowed. It is not a sin to practice witchcraft. Just because the Bible says it is doesn't mean we have to take that literally. The Bible says that it is a sin to eat shellfish. How many good little Christians have eaten shellfish? SINNERS!

Originally posted by autumn dreams
God is nothing but a judgemental arsehole.

Wicca is a religion. People who practice Wicca often cast spells, but they don't cast spells to harm people-that is not allowed. It is not a sin to practice witchcraft. Just because the Bible says it is doesn't mean we have to take that literally. The Bible says that it is a sin to eat shellfish. How many good little Christians have eaten shellfish? SINNERS!

Praciticing witchcraft is a sin. There is nothing wrong with eating shellfish.

Ummm... LEVITICUS 11:10-12

"And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.

They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you."

So you're dead wrong.

VooDoo/Witchcraft/Magic isn' t less plausible than what Christianity, for example, professes. So I voted yes.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
in regards to voodoo, yes.
zombification works. It employs a form of seasonal blowfish toxin. Hexes work. they're just a lethal form of hypnotic sugestion Very true and many other things are done with herbs....It's also the same as miracles in Christianity...It's the power of intentions...ie believing with your mind......The only difference is that the rituals only make it stronger, not by the rituals themselves, but in increasing ones belief, just as a wish in blowing out candles on a birthday cake. Only difference is in blowing out candles you are saying "I wish"...in intentions you are saying "It is.".........So it is possible for it to work........It does in many miracles by the church, though it is attributed to god, and if you believe god is in ALL things visible and invisible then you are still doing it in the name of god. Also you don't really need to acknowledge it being from god........It's just intentions as in quantum physics studies...

Sins are stupid. No offence but i think you're too busy trying to please your god, just live life happily, just be aware of your karma.
In Wicca and Paganism and other Shamanic based religions there is one simple rule, "and ye harm none, do what thou wilt", just follow that and you wont be sinning, and also, what comes around goes around. If you cast a spell or any form of Magick you just have to ask yourself, is this spell neccasery and what will happen when it gets sent out, because, dudes, it's just gunna come straight back at ya! so, yeah, anyway, if the spell has a purpose (and the purpose is a good one) then magick is alright. And i think sins are stupid, especially christian ones, like, being gay.... is that really a sin? it's stupid! sorry if i offend anyone, it's just something which annoys me. no one should be judged or automatically labelled as a sinner with something they can't help.
(but i'm completely straight...)
I<3Emos

Originally posted by Alliance
Ummm... LEVITICUS 11:10-12

"And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.

They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you."

So you're dead wrong.

But, Jesus later changes this law saying that goes into the body does not make the body unclean. So he is dead right.

If you belive this....then your god is a hypocrite. Then WHY wasnt it changed in the Bible?

It was changed in the Bible. Read Matthew 15. Pretty clear what he says.

No. The Leviticus part is still in bible.

Yes, but the law is fulfilled and Jesus's law supersedes it like the law of lift supersedes the law of gravity.

Then why bother to have the old stuff in there. There is no real good reason why.

Some have practical use, some have moral principles. I believe that maybe following them might not be a bad idea.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Some have practical use, some have moral principles. I believe that maybe following them might not be a bad idea.

So while Jesus went and changed the laws regarding Shellfish it still might not be a bad idea not to eat it?

My response, usually, is bah to any religion that has a concept of not eating a certain something. Pigs, shellfish. Impractical and pointless. Still can't work out why God changed his mind on the subject.

An example of possible explanation is this:
Pigs are parasite goldmines. God knows this, the Jews did not. God knew that they would not cook the pork well enough to prevent illness by killing the parasites. So he simply ordered them not to eat it. By Roman (or Jesus's) times this had changed. Food was no longer as unfit to eat.
Another explanation or an additional reason for God to order against pork (and I think more likely):
The Canaanites that shared the border with the Jews frequently used pigs frequently in their religous rituals and celebrations. God wanted to prevent the Jews from falling into the trappings of the perverse Canaanite religion and so ordered them to stay away from pork so as not to be tempted. A lot like the idea of mary jane being a gateway drup to cocaine or other drugs.

slights of hand, creative poisoning, and hypnotic suggestion aren't "magic"

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Can they occur, effectively?

Voodoo? It is real only in the minds of those who believe in such foolishnish

As an example, a few years back, i was in my room and i thought that i had seen a ghost, i was shitting myself until i got up and saw that is was a shadow from one of the trees, and if i had not seen that tree, today i would still be talking about the "ghost" that i saw.

All "mysteries of life" have been torn apart by science.
Vodoo and all this shit will be eventually be proven to be total shit, there is no such thing as magic, what we dont understand we call magic.

magic exists. although perhaps not quite so much in the stereotypical sense but it exists.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
magic exists. although perhaps not quite so much in the stereotypical sense but it exists.

please explain

cant. its confidential. just that it does n that i have good reason for believin it does. n thats sumthin since im a sceptic. a word of caution though 99% or more people who claim they can really do it are fakes that is also true.

plus its not always magic like mages, dragons etc. just mystical, spiritual power/miracles and its NOT connected with relegions or satan.

but you could easily attribute these percieved magical events to any existing theology.

trust me i know when it is PERCIEVED magic and when its actual mystical power. im a sceptic as i said. but somethings are undeniable{and im not saying for normal people, just some personal events} im also quite aware of the psychology involved in belief and tricking people. 99.9% of mystical claims might be false but not ALL.

If you are so skeptical you should be skeptical of your percieved ability to percieve the difference between mysticism and percieved mysticism.

It's good thing Vodoo isn't real... I don't know if I could resist... there are sooo many people, I would not mind sticking pins into lol.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

i am sceptical about what i percieve.

There is the whole placebo effect. I believe that much of this stuff can occur through the placebo effect. The body can do interesting things if a person truly believes the crap coming out of another persons mouth.

ok ur thinking donnie darko magic here, {assuming from placebo affect definition} thats not it. think more like professor XAVIER telepathy or dragonball Z magic. TRUST ME i wudnt believe something without a very REAL and noticeable fact.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ok ur thinking donnie darko magic here, {assuming from placebo affect definition} thats not it. think more like professor XAVIER telepathy or dragonball Z magic. TRUST ME i wudnt believe something without a very REAL and noticeable fact.

Did not see it, and hate the Dragonball Z. Now the X-Men, like it. But telepathy like that is crap.

Originally posted by Regret
Did not see it, and hate the Dragonball Z. Now the X-Men, like it. But telepathy like that is crap.

lol. u know thats exactly how i used to think about it but telepathy like that is VERY real even more powerful infact. but im not discussin this further. believe what u want im just stating a fact. {yes i REALIZE i sound ridiculous n i probably wud never have believed myself in the past}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
{yes i REALIZE i sound ridiculous n i probably wud never have believed myself in the past}

Lol, no, you only sound like a religious person.

ugh NO!!!!! HELL NO!!!!! im anti relegious and quite vocal about it! infact id hate being called a relegious person, im agnostic/ atheist. and what i know has nothing to do with relegion at all.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
ugh NO!!!!! HELL NO!!!!! im anti relegious and quite vocal about it! infact id hate being called a relegious person, im agnostic/ atheist. and what i know has nothing to do with relegion at all.

Thus "sound like." You have a belief I disagree with, it's the same thing. Religion is just a name for a type of belief, it's the same thing.

but unlike relegion i have a lot of solid undeniable evidence even if i dont share it.

{also dont just assume i feal really great about KNOWING sumthing exists which i never really believed or wanted to believe, but just like i look at evidence and dismiss relegion it would be very hypocritical of me to not accept something whichi in my point of view is fake if there is overwhelming evidence for its existance. the great thing though about mystical power is that it doesnt mess with your view on life and your decisions like relegion does}

lol, it's still the exact same thing. Especially your "evidence."

erm read what i wrote again, its quite different from relegion.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but unlike relegion i have a lot of solid undeniable evidence even if i dont share it.


Then I dismiss your claim.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm read what i wrote again, its quite different from relegion.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
but unlike relegion i have a lot of solid undeniable evidence even if i dont share it.

Exact same claim the religious make.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
{also dont just assume i feal really great about KNOWING sumthing exists which i never really believed or wanted to believe, but just like i look at evidence and dismiss relegion it would be very hypocritical of me to not accept something whichi in my point of view is fake if there is overwhelming evidence for its existance. the great thing though about mystical power is that it doesnt mess with your view on life and your decisions like relegion does}

Exact same claims that religion typically makes, just switch your terms around.

It's the exact same statement as they make.

yea well their idea of evidence is vague unproven crap with me its quite different it wasnt just feeling or sumhow mystically KNOWING. eg if u have a sibling and theyr really close to u and right infront of ur eyes they grow real huge tentacles out of their hands and grab u at the other end of the room and toss u right across. n then keep doing it every following days{not the throwing part but doing other stuff} how long will u keep trying to find LOGICAL definitions to prove what is quite true, false? just an analogy to tell u ihave quite SOLID evidence. nuthin like what christians claim. or any other relegion for that matter.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yea well their idea of evidence is vague unproven crap with me its quite different it wasnt just feeling or sumhow mystically KNOWING. eg if u have a sibling and theyr really close to u and right infront of ur eyes they grow real huge tentacles out of their hands and grab u at the other end of the room and toss u right across. n then keep doing it every following days{not the throwing part but doing other stuff} how long will u keep trying to find LOGICAL definitions to prove what is quite true, false? just an analogy to tell u ihave quite SOLID evidence. nuthin like what christians claim. or any other relegion for that matter.

I am a psychologist. We have done tests on various people that claim such. Statistically their abilities are not anything but chance. There is no scientific support. Same as religion.

erm what if there is documented proof of sum1 mystically saving sum1 else from an internation natural catastrophe? and u knew both the saviour and the rescued and some news company had evidence of the rescue?

u know for sum1 who is a psychologist ur too sure of urself and ur apparent beliefs.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
u know for sum1 who is a psychologist ur too sure of urself and ur apparent beliefs.

The same type of response the religious people give.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
erm what if there is documented proof of sum1 mystically saving sum1 else from an internation natural catastrophe? and u knew both the saviour and the rescued and some news company had evidence of the rescue?

The religious claim as much. If it were true it would be much more well known and documented.

I am sorry for this, but your view is the same view the religious have. You have been attacking them, yet your view here is under the same critique. If you believe in a similar phenomena, you can't be using attacks that threaten your own belief.

nope. they have illogical, unbacked beliefs which have been PROVEN untrue, yet they turn a blind eye and call others that to feal better about themselves and more secure. im not accepting it because i WANT to, im accepting it because theres a lot of evidence for it and practically none against it and i have tried to find much against it.

n btw, i dont believe ur a very succesful psychologist, no1 who is so sure of themselves can be. and ur adamant nature only hints at an egotistical fullfilment from practicing psychology on others and trying to prove ur apparent superiority with a smile. atleast that what it seems like from the way u talk. short precise cold, self satisfactory with not even a hint of intrigue, curiosity or giving the other person even the benefit of doubt let alone considering what they are saying.

Originally posted by Regret
I am sorry for this, but your view is the same view the religious have. You have been attacking them, yet your view here is under the same critique. If you believe in a similar phenomena, you can't be using attacks that threaten your own belief.

thats just it, it DOESNT threaten my own belief i say there is no god who is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolant and omnipresent. i dont believe in the teachings of other relegions. i DONT however ever say that there is NOTHING out there. there are mystical energies etc which cant be defined by normal science. that doesnt however mean that i have to believe in any relegion. tell me if im wrong one reason why what i know is similar to relegion?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
nope. they have illogical, unbacked beliefs which have been PROVEN untrue, yet they turn a blind eye and call others that to feal better about themselves and more secure. im not accepting it because i WANT to, im accepting it because theres a lot of evidence for it and practically none against it and i have tried to find much against it.

n btw, i dont believe ur a very succesful psychologist, no1 who is so sure of themselves can be. and ur adamant nature only hints at an egotistical fullfilment from practicing psychology on others and trying to prove ur apparent superiority with a smile. atleast that what it seems like from the way u talk. short precise cold, self satisfactory with not even a hint of intrigue, curiosity or giving the other person even the benefit of doubt let alone considering what they are saying.

Lol, you are the same as the religious people you attack, your entire statement here is the same manner they respond, including the personal attacks.

Psychologists are scientists. They are extremely skeptical and are driven by empirical evidence. We do deal in very credible evidence in my area of psychology.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
thats just it, it DOESNT threaten my own belief i say there is no god who is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolant and omnipresent. i dont believe in the teachings of other relegions. i DONT however ever say that there is NOTHING out there. there are mystical energies etc which cant be defined by normal science. that doesnt however mean that i have to believe in any relegion. tell me if im wrong one reason why what i know is similar to relegion?

Lol, your "mystical energies" are nearly the exact same as the view of some religions. God isn't necessary for a religion. You are caliming there is something out there, "mystical energies."

and i dont deal with CREDIBLE evidence? tell me doctor, of the analogy i put forward before. if it really had happened to me, what exactly WOULD u describe it as? a hallucinagenic experience? wait i remeber u cant TOUCH a hallucination. what else schizophrenia? hmmm, odd isnt it if the OTHER person knows and acknowledges what happened to. plus there are the two huge bruises i have from being thrown 10 feat which my MOTHER also noticed. oh wait what could it be, was i dreaming everyday for past 2 years. am i bipolar hmmm, then howcome OTHER people know of exactly what happened. oh wait the only way i cud be lying is if everything upto this point has been a dream but hey there are still people around me who will give u the exact same account. think think think, what can it BE?!

Originally posted by Regret
Lol, your "mystical energies" are nearly the exact same as the view of some religions. God isn't necessary for a religion. You are caliming there is something out there, "mystical energies."


as the true sceptic i am. i admit there is a very small chance that everything was expertly planned just for ME since a long time by every 1 i know including my parents to make EVERYTHING fit in perfectly. until this point n u r the only light of reason i have ever seen. remote but it CAN exist otherwise theres no real explanation.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
and i dont deal with CREDIBLE evidence? tell me doctor, of the analogy i put forward before. if it really had happened to me, what exactly WOULD u describe it as? a hallucinagenic experience? wait i remeber u cant TOUCH a hallucination. what else schizophrenia? hmmm, odd isnt it if the OTHER person knows and acknowledges what happened to. plus there are the two huge bruises i have from being thrown 10 feat which my MOTHER also noticed. oh wait what could it be, was i dreaming everyday for past 2 years. am i bipolar hmmm, then howcome OTHER people know of exactly what happened. oh wait the only way i cud be lying is if everything upto this point has been a dream but hey there are still people around me who will give u the exact same account. think think think, what can it BE?!

I would say that it is not repeatable. You don't have evidence to show in support of your claim. Even if it happened, there is no evidence for me to see. It ends the same as any other religious person's claim. Religious people are in groups as well. Their claim is no different.

fact is psychology is a very young science with hardly anything understood{there is a LOT understood but its minisculse compared top how much there is to a mind}

psychology is a social "science." Most of the important workin understanding the mechanics of the brain has been done by biologists, chemists, and combinations of the two.

sadly psychology has taught u nothing my friend. too bad. i thought relegious people were narrow minded but ur not any better. unlike them i just put questions infront of u n sadly LIKE them u dismissed them without even trying to answer. i put a very detailed scenario infornt of u and u practically said it never existed instead of trying to point out flaws or taking a shot at LOGICALLY disproving it. ur not very different from them, sticking to one thing and BELIEVING in it no matter what. atleast i would have looked at ur counterargument without bias if u had GIVEN me one. but alas ur content in saying everything i say is just like what relegious people say. honestly thats quite against what a good psychologist should be doing. psychoanalysing urself is the first step and uve obviously missed it.

no it isnt and if it is it shudnt be. psychology shud be more vast. maybe its people like regret which have stopped its progression clinging to the same tabbos that psychology should break{in a way}. theres more to people than just social sanity and chemical imbalances in the brain.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
fact is psychology is a very young science with hardly anything understood{there is a LOT understood but its minisculse compared top how much there is to a mind}

Actually a comprehensive study of psychology goes back to the Greek Philosophers, around the fifth century B.C. Plato and Aristotle were a few of the first to speculate about human nature and behavior. So, Psychology can be considered one of the oldest sciences.

I think you need to do a proper study of psychology before attacking it out of hand. Just like the religious people that attack evolution out of hand need to study evolution in more depth.

I think the pot is calling the kettle black and not even realizing what conditonthe kettle is even in.

You repeat religious propoganda word for word and change the god.

"psychoanalysing urself is the first step and uve obviously missed it."

JIA would say <<accepting the bible is the first step and uve obviously missed it.>>

Really, and psychoanalysis is a crap invended by Freud. I really dont take stock in free associations and thinking in terms of sexual desires.

Originally posted by Alliance
psychology is a social "science." Most of the important workin understanding the mechanics of the brain has been done by biologists, chemists, and combinations of the two.

Lol, don't state things out of hand. Cochlear implants were created by physiological psychologists, much of the understanding of brain function and activity has been discovered by us. You can claim this of the cognitive and non-scientific areas, but not of the solid areas of psychology.

Originally posted by Alliance
I think the pot is calling the kettle black and not even realizing what conditonthe kettle is even in.

You repeat religious propoganda word for word and change the god.

"psychoanalysing urself is the first step and uve obviously missed it."

JIA would say <<accepting the bible is the first step and uve obviously missed it.>>

Really, and psychoanalysis is a crap invended by Freud. I really dont take stock in free associations and thinking in terms of sexual desires.

I assume this was meant for Leon?

you so sexy smart...

I keep staring at his sig...

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

mines sexier

gunsmilie

She's mine...lol...

It take sev anyday. You can keep your stupid b*tch.

Originally posted by Regret
Actually a comprehensive study of psychology goes back to the Greek Philosophers, around the fifth century B.C. Plato and Aristotle were a few of the first to speculate about human nature and behavior. So, Psychology can be considered one of the oldest sciences.

I think you need to do a proper study of psychology before attacking it out of hand. Just like the religious people that attack evolution out of hand need to study evolution in more depth.


plato and aristotle FELT things to be a certain way so they believed in it without being sceptical or putting it to the test of logic. i wouldnt call their teachings PSYCHOLOGY. at the time philosophy{which is what plato and aristotle were really into} was QUITE different and at odds with REASON. if you really wanna understand what im talkin about go and get every single book of bertrand russel you can find and thoughroughly read through ALL of them as i have. maybe youl learn a thing or two, he had most of it figured right. the grand daddy of all sceptics id say and the most influential scientist/philosopher/sociologist/psychologist/psychiatrist and person ofrecent history. unfortunately these days people seem to have forgotten him and would rather talk about freud or marx who were both right and wrong in many places.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
plato and aristotle FELT things to be a certain way so they believed in it without being sceptical or putting it to the test of logic. i wouldnt call their teachings PSYCHOLOGY. at the time philosophy{which is what plato and aristotle were really into} was QUITE different and at odds with REASON. if you really wanna understand what im talkin about go and get every single book of bertrand russel you can find and thoughroughly read through ALL of them as i have. maybe youl learn a thing or two, he had most of it figured right. the grand daddy of all sceptics id say and the most influential scientist/philosopher/sociologist/psychologist/psychiatrist and person ofrecent history. unfortunately these days people seem to have forgotten him and would rather talk about freud or marx who were both right and wrong in many places.



slam


And Freud isn't all that much respected in the psychological community, never totally was.

Originally posted by Regret
Lol, don't state things out of hand. Cochlear implants were created by physiological psychologists, much of the understanding of brain function and activity has been discovered by us. You can claim this of the cognitive and non-scientific areas, but not of the solid areas of psychology.


u think uve understood brain function and activity? i really doubt it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
leonheartmn FELT things to be a certain way so he believed in it without being sceptical or putting it to the test of logic.


Originally posted by "JesusIsAlive"
if you really wanna understand what leonheartmn is talkin about go and get every single Bible you can find and thoughroughly read through ALL of them as i have. maybe youl learn a thing or two, he had most of it figured right.

your position = religious position

notice how u just called it psychological COMMUNITY. it has become rather like a relegious community hasnt it, with taboos and traditions instead of the open minded search for truths and new realities and accepting change with reason.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
u think uve understood brain function and activity? i really doubt it.



slam

You obviously don't know the first thing about psychology, and what has occurred in science in the area of the brain and understanding of how it functions.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
notice how u just called it psychological COMMUNITY. it has become rather like a relegious community hasnt it, with taboos and traditions instead of the open minded search for truths and new realities and accepting change with reason.

I tire of this debate. Go and discuss matters with your compatriots. There are plenty of religious zealots here that will agree with your attacks.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
notice how u just called it psychological COMMUNITY. it has become rather like a relegious community hasnt it, with taboos and traditions instead of the open minded search for truths and new realities and accepting change with reason. no...not really

Originally posted by Alliance
your position = religious position


dum dum dum. i FELT things to be the OPPOSITE way of what i found them out to be. as i said i was and still am to a great deal a sceptic and it doesnt fare great when u see that there is more to the world than physical certainties but as i am a RATIONAL person too i cudnt deny very sound evidence and HAD to acceot it going by principle.

secondly if i HAVENT read the bible and wish to challenge a christian i would be in the wrong and wouldnt have much real reason for challenging him/her in the first place as i cudnt disagree with their position without even knowing what the bible says on the subject. so indeed i SHOULD go out and read the whole of it or significant amount to find the main contradictions etc. all I said was that u should read all of bertrand russell's works to understand what im saying. so my stance is anything BUT relegious. or similar.

Originally posted by Regret


slam

You obviously don't know the first thing about psychology, and what has occurred in science in the area of the brain and understanding of how it functions.



I tire of this debate. Go and discuss matters with your compatriots. There are plenty of religious zealots here that will agree with your attacks.


i dont? really? how can u tell? im quite into psychology thankyou and probably know the workings of the brain far better thanyou my narrow minded rude friend. besides ur use of words is rather interesting "i tire of this debate" ur speaking like an arrogant/ignorant king" needless to say ur not gonna get anywhere in psychology with that attitude. not really. perhaps ull earn fame in the community as u call it as all communities love taboo following slaves.

Originally posted by Regret


slam


And Freud isn't all that much respected in the psychological community, never totally was.

That isn't completly true, while his theories are mostly suprassed or replaced now by others with more value to the field (seen as more accurate) he is respected for the work he did, and certain processes he formulated. So while modern day psychology doesn't treat his works as gospal, they still recgnise he was a necessary part of the evolution of psychology.

I like to think of him as that kind of dodgy great, great etc grandfather/uncle every family seems to have, who they dsicribe as "oh he was a good man, did good for the family, even if he was a bit, well, eccentric"

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
That isn't completly true, while his theories are mostly suprassed or replaced now by others with more value to the field (seen as more accurate) he is respected for the work he did, and certain processes he formulated. So while modern day psychology doesn't treat his works as gospal, they still recgnise he was a necessary part of the evolution of psychology.

I like to think of him as that kind of dodgy great, great etc grandfather/uncle every family seems to have, who they dsicribe as "oh he was a good man, did good for the family, even if he was a bit, well, eccentric"

Actually it is true.

Freud like religion made crap up. His theories on dream interpretation, libido, anxiety, id, ego, and superego are merely the most easily recognizable examples of his make believe study. These items were unable to be scientifically replicated. Items that were analysed that had support when replicated were some characteristics of oral and anal personality types, castration anxiety, the idea that dreams reflect emotional concerns, defense mechanism of repression, and aspects of the Oedipus complex. Freudian concepts tested but not supported by experimental results were dreams symbolically satisfying repressed desires, resolution of Oedipus complex, women having an inferior conception of their bodies, women have lower superego standards than men, and women having difficulty achieving identity.

Christine Ladd-Franklin stated that psychoanalysis was a product of the "undeveloped German mind." Robert Woodworth called it an "uncanny religion" that led rational people ro draw absurd conclusions. John Watson called it "voodooism." James McKeen Cattel described Freud as a man who "lives in the fairyland of dreams among the ogres of perverted sex."

Freuds methods for collecting data were unsystematic and uncontrolled. Freud recorded patients words later, and did not record all of the patients words, only what he felt was important. There is no evidence that any female patient told Freud that she had been seduced by her father, and it has been contended that Freud used suggestion or other coercion, to elicit or prime for such memories. There are discrepancies between Freuds notes on therapy sessions and the published case histories. There are discrepancies on length of therapy sessions with the published case histories. Freud's patients could have been lying about events, Freud never checked the stories to verify that events occurred.

Summed up Freud's data collection was incomplete, imperfect and inaccurate.

Psychoanalysis may have been a strong presence in psychological history, but Freud was not all that much respected in the psychological community, and never totally was.

Edit: Also, Psychoanalysis was not accepted by psychology until at the very earliest 1930, at which point studies attempting to discredit Freud were begun.

I don't deny that a good portion of his theories have been debunked, fallen out of favor or viewed as wrong. However that does not so much equal as not having respect or a place in the evolution of psychology. No psychologist today is trained to practice under Freud's claims, but they are all trained to understand the part he played in the evolution of modern psychology (and, I would point out, the theories he made in regards to the unconscious, which are still of interest today.) You will hear them joke about him, and you wont hear many say he was on the money, but most will allow he played a part in psychology becoming what it is.

In certain ways he resembles certain scientists from yester year who would come up with theories (sometimes just make up theories on their own perceptions) which would remain popular for a time before later scientists would come along with more resources and an expanded understanding of the subject and one of two things would happen: it would be debunked, or it would be altered, changed, fixed, imagined. Freud is especially unpopular with people who dislike the psychoanalytical field (which is understandable) and certain philosophical stances. However this does not erase the fact he is a major contributer of bringing psychology into the mainstream, theorising on the subconscious and seeing the potential for bringing analytical discipline into the field. Once again I say it is not so much debated that he approached it wrong and could often be misguided, but once again I say that does not equal him being held in contempt by the psychological community who do recognise the part he played in its evolution.

Science is often a big popularity contest. There is far too much politicing involved. Though today its much better than it used to be.

Its fun when people jump to conclusions too quicky and with insufficient evidence, because then its very easy to design experiments debunking thier claims....getting more publicity for you.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I don't deny that a good portion of his theories have been debunked, fallen out of favor or viewed as wrong. However that does not so much equal as not having respect or a place in the evolution of psychology. No psychologist today is trained to practice under Freud's claims, but they are all trained to understand the part he played in the evolution of modern psychology (and, I would point out, the theories he made in regards to the unconscious, which are still of interest today.) You will hear them joke about him, and you wont hear many say he was on the money, but most will allow he played a part in psychology becoming what it is.

In certain ways he resembles certain scientists from yester year who would come up with theories (sometimes just make up theories on their own perceptions) which would remain popular for a time before later scientists would come along with more resources and an expanded understanding of the subject and one of two things would happen: it would be debunked, or it would be altered, changed, fixed, imagined. Freud is especially unpopular with people who dislike the psychoanalytical field (which is understandable) and certain philosophical stances. However this does not erase the fact he is a major contributer of bringing psychology into the mainstream, theorising on the subconscious and seeing the potential for bringing analytical discipline into the field. Once again I say it is not so much debated that he approached it wrong and could often be misguided, but once again I say that does not equal him being held in contempt by the psychological community who do recognise the part he played in its evolution.

I agree with your statements. My disagreement is with the idea that this statement is in error:

Freud isn't all that much respected in the psychological community, never totally was.

Freud did contribute and all else you stated. All the same, the above statement is true.



Also, I would not be surprised if Anna was not on the receiving end of Father-Daughter seduction. My readings and her behavior seem to suggest some oddity in her sexuality.

I could state further, and claim that many psychologists have strong contempt for him and his practice to this day. This would be true as I doubt you will find a behavior analyst that respects the study of psychoanalysis. Now, that being said, Freud's work impacted psychological history and psychology in general, even we cannot deny it, no matter how much we dislike his work. I also have not met a fellow psychologist that truly is happy with the stereotyping we receive due to his overtly sexual nature.

Hey there,

I want to ask you to truthfully give your opinion on supernatural (as witchcraft and demons etc.).
There has been a more or less fascinating discussion going on with someone on the Religion forum who actually claims that nearly all people on this world believed in witchcraft and sorcery and all the superstitious crap. Since I found that rather funny, I'd really like your answers to this.

JIA does....

Also sithsaber


I, for one, care less for them....cause they don't exist.

I do believe in witchcraft as in, I believe it exists.

Do I believe it works? No.

-AC

You have my support, AC.

Sure why not?...I'll believe in all that stuff...

I believe in Debbiejo, so yes.

Yeah, I like all the religions.

Like classic rock-ligion like Pagan, all the way up to multi-deity religions like Christianity.

They're only the people the Jewish could have been.

-AC

I'm smallminded on this perhaps, and I would like that added flavour in shape of supernatural events and all, but no proof = no faith.

Little bit bias huh? No proof doesn't equal to no faith..no proof, for you, equals no belief . No proof doesn't matter for a lot of people because of faith.

I think JIA would like to get his hands on this one but-someones force almost holds him in the Religion forums.

Wouldn't it be nice if the supernatural /did/ exist, though?

Originally posted by offtheset
Wouldn't it be nice if the supernatural /did/ exist, though?

Hmm, can't quite judge...in some aspects yes, in others, like Christian supernatural believes, ultimately no.

I'm confused. When did the Gay/Bush/Abortion/Sock forum become the Religion forum?

I think that can nearly be called a synonym.

I believe that the elves killed off the orcs. If that counts

Originally posted by botankus
I believe in Debbiejo, so yes.

I've been found out.........Mmmmm demon....torment...

what do you believe is witchcraft?

telepathy? I think some people are telepathic, some may think someone who is telepathic is also a witch.

walk-ins? Some think that if you have a walk-in, it's a demon possession, it depends on if you and the walk-in get along, I suppose.

Herbs and roots and tentures? That's just chemistry and using teas and plants to heal, nothing hocus pocus about that...

what do you consider as a witch? someone who speaks against the church?

before my "mom" died, I was 10, on my way to church camp. We were told so many times in Sunday school that people don't hear the voice of God and God doesn't talk to people, now mind you, there were about 2 blacks out of all the people in this church camp, everyone else was white. Well, on the bus, I heard a voice tell me that I would never see my "mom" again and that she was dead, the adults thought I was just being bratty and wanted to go home, the kids thought I was being silly. I cried so loud and told the bus driver to turn around. Of course, my sunday school friends thought I was crazy. Until 3 days before Sunday school ended, we were in church and I saw an image that told me my "mom" had passed away, I told the girl next to me and she said to me to stop talking crazy. That morning, the minister of the church asked me to get ready to go home b/c my "mom" had passed yesterday. Some may think, why did "God" speak to me and not them, or if i was a good enough girl to even hear the voice of God. Knowing her death in advance kept me from losing it, even though most thought i was crazy for saying it and saying it came from God, even though we were in a church setting.

Here's something that's been buggin' me, if people are stating that demons and such horrors don't exist, how can they go in life believing in angels and deitys?

"I do believe in spooks. I do believe in spooks. I do! I do! I do! I do believe in spooks."

Well, I hope I make myself clear with that: Witchcraft as in waving your wand and murmuring strange words and something "supernatural" happens.

Originally posted by eezy45
Hey there,

I want to ask you to truthfully give your opinion on supernatural (as witchcraft and demons etc.).
There has been a more or less fascinating discussion going on with someone on the Religion forum who actually claims that nearly all people on this world believed in witchcraft and sorcery and all the superstitious crap. Since I found that rather funny, I'd really like your answers to this.


the supernatural most probably exists. i dunno about traditional demons{probably made up to FIT in with any unknown or even supernatural phenomenon} but psychics/mystics exists, very powerful ones too. some practices akin to magic, {reiki, chi gathering, trying to prlong life through madication on a level beyond purely biological, controlling fire, partially knowing the future, channeling chaos, using your will or spirit to force things to happen} exist, or atleast i have good reason to believe they do. not most of the traditional supernatural though, its most likely, u have mystic strength, believe its given by god/demon and then whenever anything happens because of it, u take it as evidence that its due tp your perception of where the power is comigng from. but its EXCEEDINGLY rare, and over 99% of people who claim it are lying.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
the supernatural most probably exists. i dunno about traditional demons{probably made up to FIT in with any unknown or even supernatural phenomenon} but psychics/mystics exists, very powerful ones too. some practices akin to magic, {reiki, chi gathering, trying to prlong life through madication on a level beyond purely biological, controlling fire, partially knowing the future, channeling chaos, using your will or spirit to force things to happen} exist, or atleast i have good reason to believe they do. not most of the traditional supernatural though, its most likely, u have mystic strength, believe its given by god/demon and then whenever anything happens because of it, u take it as evidence that its due tp your perception of where the power is comigng from. but its EXCEEDINGLY rare, and over 99% of people who claim it are lying.

take the mystery out to the word magic...it only means that there is no proof of the steps to get the result, once you understand the meaning of magic, it's just a matter of proving the steps, if you do that, then you are a genius and just unlocked what science wasn't able to prove as of via logic/experiment (expected results via the steps).

Originally posted by Mindship
"I do believe in spooks. I do believe in spooks. I do! I do! I do! I do believe in spooks."

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/african-american-art/young-black-man-250.jpg

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
take the mystery out to the word magic...it only means that there is no proof of the steps to get the result, once you understand the meaning of magic, it's just a matter of proving the steps, if you do that, then you are a genius and just unlocked what science wasn't able to prove as of via logic/experiment (expected results via the steps).

Merrian websters printed desription of the word magic....

1: the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces b : magic rites or incantations

2 a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source b : something that seems to cast a spell : ENCHANTMENT


I think you are speaking of an Illusionist, master of slight of hand,


I know this was an ass hole thing to do, but people shit over my words all the time, when common sense should tell you what i meant, now was my turn

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/african-american-art/young-black-man-250.jpg


good job

witchcraft=no
demons=never seen one

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Merrian websters printed desription of the word magic....

1: the use of means (as charms or spells) believed to have supernatural power over natural forces b : magic rites or incantations

2 a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source b : something that seems to cast a spell : ENCHANTMENT


I think you are speaking of an Illusionist, master of slight of hand,


I know this was an ass hole thing to do, but people shit over my words all the time, when common sense should tell you what i meant, now was my turn

I didn't make it clear, my apologies. I am going by the OTHER Merriam's dictionary (my own).

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
I didn't make it clear, my apologies. I am going by the OTHER Merriam's dictionary (my own).

Oh, well then, i see your point Which edition do you refer to? Mine is a bit outdated, I am running on Joe's dumbass definitions 72, I hear edition 93 really corrected alot of the bad definitions

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Oh, well then, i see your point Which edition do you refer to? Mine is a bit outdated, I am running on Joe's dumbass definitions 72, I hear edition 93 really corrected alot of the bad definitions


Nope, I am using my own defintion, period. I can call "x" anything I want to even if Merriam or Webster has a default definition, as long as I am clear on what this word means in the context of the conversation, I can't see how it's an issue of a dumbass or not, it's just a matter of style, to each his or her own.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Oh, well then, i see your point Which edition do you refer to? Mine is a bit outdated, I am running on Joe's dumbass definitions 72, I hear edition 93 really corrected alot of the bad definitions

If you wan to hear a more othorodox definition:


Magic:

the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature.


Supernatural means that the event is not explained via physics, we have no physical laws for it, thus, it's supernatural, we don't know the logic behind how it happens. Magic would be defined the same way as someone who is from the 1300s who pops up to 2007 and doesn't know how wireless works, and b/c they don't know much of the new laws we've learned, they feel it's magic. Magic is not knowing any physical laws to explain the event...sorry if that's not verbatum. If we had physical laws to explain the logic behind spirits and mediums and can produce the expected results in a lab, it would no longer be supernatural anymore. Think about it.

Originally posted by eezy45
Hey there,

I want to ask you to truthfully give your opinion on supernatural (as witchcraft and demons etc.).
There has been a more or less fascinating discussion going on with someone on the Religion forum who actually claims that nearly all people on this world believed in witchcraft and sorcery and all the superstitious crap. Since I found that rather funny, I'd really like your answers to this.

Fu.ck no. It's fun to speculate whether or not it could exist, though. For example, I don't believe in Big Foot or La Chupacabra, but I spend a lot of time reading up on these cryptid creatures and imagining how mind blowing it would be to discover that either exists.

Damn,I would love to see a dragon.

or a Unicorn,I wan a Unicorn ddammit!!!

Originally posted by Czarina_Czarina
take the mystery out to the word magic...it only means that there is no proof of the steps to get the result, once you understand the meaning of magic, it's just a matter of proving the steps, if you do that, then you are a genius and just unlocked what science wasn't able to prove as of via logic/experiment (expected results via the steps).

however the problem with that definition for the things im aware of is, that normally, steps are only present if you look at a procedure from a certain persepctive{i.e u cud name the same phenomenon{writing} at a specific point in space and time as (a) a person preserving ideas (b) ink molecules being spread on paper molecules due to a predetermined process (b) a system transitioning to different state of entropy} but even if u describe the phenomenon with another persepective, it wudnt contradict the first definition, however the stuff im talking about might makes a certain amount of sense on a human argumentative level or emotional level, but doesnt really make any sense on a statistiacal, graphical, physical/scientific level. so its kinda hard to just blame it on our lack of knowledge of stages involved from beginning to end, atleast for me.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Damn,I would love to see a dragon.

or a Unicorn,I wan a Unicorn ddammit!!!

Or an etriagan.

Originally posted by eezy45
Hey there,

I want to ask you to truthfully give your opinion on supernatural (as witchcraft and demons etc.).
There has been a more or less fascinating discussion going on with someone on the Religion forum who actually claims that nearly all people on this world believed in witchcraft and sorcery and all the superstitious crap. Since I found that rather funny, I'd really like your answers to this.

No, of course I don't believe in any of that, anything supernatural, there is no evidence whatsoever to support any of it.

I strongly believe in The Craft, Magical Creatures, or anything dealing with magic! I pride myself in drowning neck deep in the Supernatural!

Originally posted by Bardock42
Or an etriagan.
Or someone from House Atreides.

Originally posted by eezy45
Hey there,

I want to ask you to truthfully give your opinion on supernatural (as witchcraft and demons etc.).
There has been a more or less fascinating discussion going on with someone on the Religion forum who actually claims that nearly all people on this world believed in witchcraft and sorcery and all the superstitious crap. Since I found that rather funny, I'd really like your answers to this.

I do not believe in the supernatural.

The following do not exist:
Souls
Demons
Angels
Ghosts
Satan
The Christian god
Seeing into the future
Life after death
The resurrection of Jesus

I may not be able to give evidence supporting my beliefs, but honestly can any of you? Saying you don't believe in demons and witches, but then turning around and saying you believe in God is an act of pure hypocrisy. This is because you have yet to see a demon, or witch, or magical creature at all. Well have any of you ever seen God? Jesus? Justin Timberlake?... I thought not...

Yes, I believe in the Super Natural. The Ghost phenomenon in particular has the most occurence and no scientific explanation.

That explains a lot.

Hey, it's valid. There's an entire religion based around the craft of old. So something must be saunt. Besides, who's to say we aren't being lied to? What if the government has been hiding all counts of magical exposure? We ALL know it wouldn't be the first time the government's sequestered something from us for "the greater good"...

Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
Hey, it's valid. There's an entire religion based around the craft of old. So something must be saunt. Besides, who's to say we aren't being lied to? What if the government has been hiding all counts of magical exposure? We ALL know it wouldn't be the first time the government's sequestered something from us for "the greater good"...

A criminal Government doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
A criminal Government doesn't work that way.

I beg to differ. They managed to cover the real story about 9/11. If they're powerful enough to do that then who knows what they're capable of? Heck, we could blow up the world if we wanted. Nuclear arms beat out Moral principle 9 to 1...

Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
I beg to differ. They managed to cover the real story about 9/11. If they're powerful enough to do that then who knows what they're capable of? Heck, we could blow up the world if we wanted. Nuclear arms beat out Moral principle 9 to 1...

The real story about 9/11? Are you a conspiracy NUT?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The real story about 9/11? Are you a conspiracy NUT?

To an extent...