Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Before anyone does anything in this thread, you haev to watch this instruction video . Make sure you have the volume up, and be sure to learn from its wisdom.

Alright then.

Batdude/Darkcrawler

vs.

TheKahn/leonidas

....

Reiteration of the rules:

1. Prep = 15 minutes, in a neutral environment apart from the battlefield.

2. The only thing combatants can have "operational" coming into the fight is generic shielding. Thus, an offensive or other maneuver must begin after the fight has started. No creating 10,000 illusions/constructs/etc. during prep or anything like that.

3. If you don't know the rules, read them! The first person to make 7 battle-related posts on Day 1, then complain to me will be flogged....or at least get a PM from me with a " " smilie and a link to the rules. They've been established for weeks. And that thread has been pinned for the past week. There's no excuse for not knowing them.

4. Observers are asked to NOT post in this thread unless it is a question directly related to the battle.

5. Keep anything extraneous in the discussion thread. Please help me keep this battle as efficient as possible.

6. Judges: wait a while to vote. And post your vote, possibly with a (brief) explanation. Don't vote in the poll Observers: Feel free to vote in the poll, but I'd encourage you to wait as well.

7. Help me out with all of this. If something needs edited out, let me know...I can't catch everything.

....


Batdude/DC
Magneto (Team)
Captain Atom (Batdude)
Morg (DC)


Leo/Kahn
Silver Surfer (Team)
G.L. Hal Jordan (Kahn)
...I misplaced the last bio. I'd ask leo or Kahn to post it in one of their early posts. Thanks.

Judges: Xmarksthespot, Illadelph, outarddwarf, ?? (we'll have the 4th judge soon)

Battle Location: The planet Mars, but with breathable Earth-like atmosphere. Mars-gravity is in effect though (less than Earth), though it probably won't matter much.

Leo/Kahn's opening plan. This does not count toward their 9 posts.

This is the stuff Kahn sent me. With the edits and whatnot, leo's portion was wicked confusing, and I don't have time today to make heads-or-tails of it. My apologies, but you'll have to include that in your posts.

DC/Batdude did not send an opening plan, but everyone still has the 9 posts to work with at this point.


....


Leo's and Kahn's general plan of asskickery

Prep time:
During prep time our team will utilize Maxima's and the Surfer's telepathic abilities to 1)share information about their opponents (ie Hal and Maxima gets the Surfer's knowledge and experience dealing with Morg, ect) and to 2)share certain skills among each other (ie the Surfer would get Hal's and Maxima's h2h training and experience, ect). And of course they will plan out their strategy for the fight.


Initial fight plan:

In the first millisecond of the fight the Surfer will blind the other team with his nova attack (obviously Hal would act quickly to protect himself and Maxima).
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/silver_surfer_1988_016_12.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/silver_surfer_1988_016_13.jpg
Now this attack will have two effects. One it will serve to distract the other team preventing them from even seeing our team and two given that the light he produces is brighter than a star going nova then Magneto will become permanently blind due to the intensity of the light.

With the other team thus impaired, our team will proceed with their plan. First the Surfer will create some Galactus-fooling holograms of our team:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer6-30a.jpg
and Hal will use his ring to turn himself, the Surfer, and Maxima invisible:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/fc3380be.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/71706359.jpg
This means that when the other team recovers their ability to see, execpt for Magneto who thanks to his human eyes is now blind, then will target mere facsimiles of our team while the Surfer, Hal, and Maxima are safely hidden from them. Now the holograms cannot attack Batdude's and DC's team but they can stay approximately 100 yards away and act to draw the other teams attention.

Next the Surfer will proceed to put poor Magneto out of his misery. Now we could simply argue that the Surfer could just absorb Magneto's shield (assuming it is up) as he has absorbed massive amounts of energy from stars which would include far more electromagnetic energy that Magneto could ever produce. But to save the judges the headache of having to sort out the entire "he could absorb it" and "no he can't" routine, we will use an alternate method. The Surfer will instead shrink down to the level of the Microverse and proceed to pass though the spaces between the electrons of Magneto's shield.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer2-19a.jpg
Once inside his shiled the Surfer can easily dispatch Magneto in a myriad of ways. Now is should be stressed just how fast this will happen. The Surfer will create the nova flash at almost the instant the fight starts and thanks to his well documented speed he will be within Magneto's shield before Mags even realizes what has happened. Not that he could even do much damage in his present sight-impared condition. But just in case some are not familiar with the Surfer's speed here are a few scans.
Travel half million lightyears in few moments:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-006.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-007.jpg
Twist the very fabric of space with his speed:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/ss_enslavers_06.jpg


Now Hal and Maxima will be patienty waiting for Magneto's death which is signal to attack. After Magneto's death an invisible Hal will take on Morg while the Surfer deals with Captain Atom and Leo will describe what Maxima is doing. Hal could deal with Morg alone given that he has proven himself capable to taking down the JLA single-handedly:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a46a7e79.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/73655e8c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/45b338c3.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/f2e10a70.jpg

Hal puts down Mongul with one monster hit even though he had a broken arm and knee. Mongul later went on to take Superman and Kyle on at the same time.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/b662ec0c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7bd5fcaa.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/efcbd6ea.jpg

And his defense are equally impressive. When Superman and Hal find themselves traveling through a strange dimension, Hal shields them both from a 300 Megaton detonation, one which they aren't even sure Superman himself could survive.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/b75d772c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/6254e4b2.jpg

Hell, as a rookie he was taking nuclear explosions at ground zero without a scratch:
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9863/emeralddawn00321rougher8ak.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/4952/emeralddawn00322rougher7zi.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9159/greenlanternemeralddawn04014zn.jpg
http://img263.echo.cx/img263/1280/greenlanternemeralddawn04022ta.jpg

And his constructs are strong enough to move planetary/destroys bodies: (note that in this one he states that the only reason he can't destroy the moon is that he lacks the time not the ability)
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl63_20.jpg
Hal, disguised as Batman, moves the moon all the way from Planet Earth:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7d4466d7.jpg



Speaking of Captain Atom the Surfer will be the main one facing him. Now we all know that Captain Atom is a decent energy absorber even if he is a bit of a physical lightweight. However, he has a sadly fatal flaw. He can only absorb so much energy before he overloads and jumps either to the future or past (both of which would be counted as a loss according to Digi but the other judges can decide for themselves).
Here he admits that there is a limit to what he can absorb:
http://img256.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captatom23227xz.jpg

And here we see that he can't really absorb that much at all as it just took one blast and he loses about 23 hours:
http://img392.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca17cp.jpg
http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca24ee.jpg

Hell, he can't even absorb the energy from a nuclear sub without losing several days:
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca35yg.jpg
http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca42gd.jpg

The problem is that he is facing the Surfer who can produce enough energy to rip the fabric of space and create a black hole.
http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationsilversurfer10189g.jpg
http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationsilversurfer10196y.jpg
Meaning that overloading Captain Atom will be a relatively easy matter for him to accomplish.




And just a little physical comparison between the two. Here is Captain Atom getting his ass handed to him by Mary Marvel:
http://img302.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image196sr.jpg
http://img302.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image209qg.jpg
http://img302.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image210wj.jpg
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=image232li.jpg


While the Surfer is able to take on an energy vampire who had absorbed the powers of both Gladiator and the Uni-Power and he actually manages to make this creature bleed (no small feat considering he is 50x as powerful as the planet moving Gladiator) before he overloads him much like he would do to Captain Atom:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-10.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-11.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-12.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-13.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-14.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-15.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-16.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-17.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-18.jpg


Just to summarize, a blinded Magneto will be killed in the first seconds of the fights leaving Morg and Captain Atom to fight an invisible team who, among other things, have an extremely powerful telepath. The Surfer will quickly overload Captain Atom and Hal will deal with Morg. Meaning that even if Morg manages to survive Hal's attacks very quickly he'll be facing all three members of our team thus sealing his fate.

..

Batdude none of your links work

true dat..........

too many scans for one post, i guess . . . anyway, to finish:

IF he is SOMEHOW still conscious when she reaches him or has not quantum leaped, she will hit him with a superman level punch.

now, while it's true atom may be able to absorb some of the psionic energy she puts out, he cannot do so very efficiently:

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/4023/atompsionic0rt.th.jpg

bear in mind he will also not be ready for an attack from behind. of course, her goal IS to get him to quantum jump. when he absorbs too much energy too quickly, he will leap forward or backwards in time as shown by kahn above. i add one more set of scans to further cement the notion AND because here he faces off against a PSIONIC/TELEKINETIC creature named SYNAPSE. he is again forced to quantum leap forward, losing again several hours this time.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7499/atomsynapse11it.th.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5223/atomsynapse26oq.th.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8449/atomsynapse37ur.th.jpg

digi himself has said that a forced quantum leap would be equal to a win in this situation as it is exploiting a character's weakness. on top of what i have shown, in prep, their team actually fed him MORE energy. atom will be ready to time-jump any second.

now, consider exactly what is happening:

1. atom CAN be blinded (shown above) and is being hit with a nova+ level flash.
2. he CAN be fooled by illusions (shown above) and is being shown illusions capable of folling galactus.
3. he is susceptible to psionic attack, has fallen before a psionic opponent (shown above) AND is facing a top-tier psi who has ALREADY and INADVERTENTLY nearly forced to quantum leap -- and WOULD have done so had she not VOLUNTARILY stopped her attack on him (again shown above).
4. we also know that atom CAN be beaten down physically by an opponent with sufficient strength. mary marvel did it (shown in the first post) and after he was blinded by spectra (shown above) major force ALSO literally beat him nearly to death with only his bare hands (those scans are ALSO available upon request . . .)
5. we also know that on top of being a top-tier psi, maxima possesses strength that rivals superman's (shown above), with durability to match.
6. factor in that she is invisible, coming at him from behind and his confusion and the results are pretty clear:

R.I. P Captain Atom

and don't forget -- once ss has polished off magneto, atom is his next stop. together ss and max would make very short work indeed of atom, most especially in lieu of the tactical error made by dc and bats in actually pumping atom full of energy. atom CANNOT absorb ad infinitum, as the scans above show. and as further proof, we have atom's own words:

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9537/atomltd2oo.th.jpg

you've seen how quickly max nearly overloaded him earlier, seen that he DOES quantum leap with some regularity and by absorbing energies well below the level that max and ss can dish out. atom winks out quickly, leaving (after ss has finished magneto) morg to face us 3 on 1 . . .

poor morg . . .

You know you could just post the links ?

This is going to be good...

*stops laughing at the fact that Magneto was drafted*

Post count:

DC: 3/9 (Unless Digi deems first post as prep post)
Leo: 2/9
Bat: 1/9
Kahn: 2/9

As for the Surfer solar flare attack, I've seen no evidence either way that it would effect or not effect Magneto. Captain Atom has been shown to be at least momentarily susceptible to extreme luminal exposure.

More evidence is required in the case of Magneto.

At this point, and given his powerset, I'm leaning towards the solar flare attack not permanently disabling him, if at all, but this stance is not permanent and can be changed or affirmed with proper and more conclusive evidence being provided.

Be careful of your post counts also. It's only Monday.

Magneto's eyes are no more durable than a normal human; surely if he was exposed to this amount of light, his eyes would be affected?

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Magneto's eyes are no more durable than a normal human; surely if he was exposed to this amount of light, his eyes would be affected?

Fair enough, though we're trying to keep observer comments to questions only...not arguments/opinions. But you can use any of this in your decision if and wehn you vote in the poll.

{edited by Digi}

Digimark, can you delete my last 2 prior posts from this thread please?

Thanks.

New announcement:

Wildstorm Captain Atom came into contact with part of "The Void", presumably enhancing certain powers. here's the deal with that.

1. Any reality-altering powers and/or time traveling Cpt. Atom may have gained from the merge are banned.
2. In general, since this was a temporary enhancement, it may not be allowed.
3. However, is it clear whether or not the Void enhanced Atom physically?? If not, then feats of strength/speed/skill/etc. from his Wildstorm showings are acceptable. Most of his energy powers and strength and such existed before his WS showings, so unless it is explicit that The Void enhanced these as well, they can be presumed to be valid showings.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
New announcement:

Wildstorm Captain Atom came into contact with part of "The Void", presumably enhancing certain powers. here's the deal with that.

1. Any reality-altering powers and/or time traveling Cpt. Atom may have gained from the merge are banned.
2. In general, since this was a temporary enhancement, it may not be allowed.
3. However, is it clear whether or not the Void enhanced Atom physically?? If not, then feats of strength/speed/skill/etc. from his Wildstorm showings are acceptable.




Captain Atom = good
Void = bad
Captain Atom with void = bad

Spartan = good
Void = bad
Spartan with void = good

Did I miss something??

Originally posted by Blair Wind


Captain Atom = good
Void = bad
Captain Atom with void = bad

Spartan = good
Void = bad
Spartan with void = good

Did I miss something??

It was temporary with Atom, just a short-lived series. Spartan's had his Void-merge for close to 3 years now in the comics....long enough to consider it his "basic power set".

It's like deciding on 'standard equipment'. It's rarely set in stone, but you have to draw the line somewhere or else fanboys would have, say, Slade bringing flame throwers and condensed nukes to every fight.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It was temporary with Atom, just a short-lived series. Spartan's had his Void-merge for close to 3 years now in the comics....long enough to consider it his "basic power set".

It's like deciding on 'standard equipment'. It's rarely set in stone, but you have to draw the line somewhere or else fanboys would have, say, Slade bringing flame throwers and condensed nukes to every fight.

....and meta-grenades.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
New announcement:

Wildstorm Captain Atom came into contact with part of "The Void", presumably enhancing certain powers. here's the deal with that.

1. Any reality-altering powers and/or time traveling Cpt. Atom may have gained from the merge are banned.


-Not an official post-

Just want to clear up some misconceptions here...

Captain Atom states that "Just a little trick that Quantum boys taught me". This is while Captain Atom was normal. He has been taught how to use his powers to time travel back and forward. He also states "It's been a long time since I've done this", so he's done it before. The comic clearly says that he can timetravel under his own power. Time is part of the Quantum Field.

-Again, not an official post-

His void powers weren't triggered until the very end of the series. What were talking about happened in #7 of 9. He even states that it's just an old trick he learned awhile ago. Nothing we've used is illegal for this match.

Fair enough...but matter manip and time travel are banned anyway, not just for Atom but for everyone. I just wanted to clear anything up before it became an issue.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Fair enough...but matter manip and time travel are banned anyway, not just for Atom but for everyone. I just wanted to clear anything up before it became an issue.

-One more nonofficial post-

However, if they talk about overloading Captain Atom so he jumps forward in time for the "BFR" victory, naturally we are going to discuss the fact that he can come back in the present time. Just to let you know.

Originally posted by batdude123
-One more nonofficial post-

However, if they talk about overloading Captain Atom so he jumps forward in time for the "BFR" victory, naturally we are going to discuss the fact that he can come back in the present time. Just to let you know.

Non-Official post:

You can't. Voluntary time travel has been banned from the start. Your character would have to find another means to re-enter the fight.

Originally posted by TheKahn
Non-Official post:

You can't. Voluntary time travel has been banned from the start. Your character would have to find another means to re-enter the fight.

-Non official-

If he time travels back to the fight, and nothing else, I really don't see the problem there.

Non Official Post:

It seems everyone is making official posts under the guise of non official posts

.... *murble*

Voluntary time travel has been banned since early on. That hasn't changed. Cpt. Atom has never shown time travel abilities ever until his Wildstorm showings. If you choose to use WS Cpt. Atom feats as evidence, it is assumed that a BFR argument for his opponents is valid (whether or not it would actually work is another question best left to the judges). Leo/Kahn would only be using energy to facilitate the proposed BFR, thus their strategy isn't against the rules.

BFR's by conventional means (strength, flight, energy, etc.) have been considered a legitimate argument since the beginning of the rules we created initially. The only things that were banned were using techniques such as dimension-hopping, teleportation, or time travel (on the part of the agressors) to facilitate BFR.

*another non-official*Originally posted by DigiMark007


Voluntary time travel has been banned since early on. That hasn't changed. Cpt. Atom has never shown time travel abilities ever until his Wildstorm showings. If you choose to use WS Cpt. Atom feats as evidence, it is assumed that a BFR argument for his opponents is valid (whether or not it would actually work is another question best left to the judges). Leo/Kahn would only be using energy to facilitate the proposed BFR, thus their strategy isn't against the rules.



He had learned time travel abilities before Wildstorm...

So if he's bumped back time...let's say a half a hour...he's out? Even if he could return from the BFR under his own power?

Isnt all time travel banned?

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Isnt all time travel banned?

*non official post*

Edit.

There are three main points I would like to take the time to clear up.




To begin with visible light is already able to travel in and out of Magneto's shield. This can be seen in the fact the shield is transparent and, consequently, Magneto and other characters can see each other when it is up. We are merely taking advantage of this fact as the X-men have done before:

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/2995/mags10ad.jpg

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/9268/mags25nc.jpg

And here the Avengers use it in a battle against Magneto:
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/9849/magsblinded0uq.jpg

The first shows that bright light can penetrate Magneto's shields and blind him, and the second proves he can not control a blinding burst of light as it has been claimed.
Keep in mind that the nova flash created by the Surfer will be much brighter than the flash off of Gambit's card or from the other character both of which blinded Magneto and forced him to drop his shield in the above scans. The first shows that bright light can penetrate Magneto's shields and the second proves he can not control a birst of light.

But to be honest I can't quite understand the logic behind our opponents statement that Magneto's shield will protect him against any possible attack. What if we attack him in a way he could NOT have imagined or in a way in which the other team did not cover in their prep time or attack plan? It is plainly obvious to anyone that Magneto's shield allows in visible light and he can be easily blinded by it.





Secondly, I know some of the judges might be wondering if Magneto would simply be able to deflect the light as it comes in. We feel the answer to that question is "no." For Magneto to use his powers and affect objects in the physical world he must first think to use them like most mutants.

Now what does that mean for the fight at hand? Specifically, that the Magneto will not be aware that the nova flash from the Surfer is coming until the light strikes and burns out his eyes as the attack is traveling at the speed of light. For Magneto to be able to either block or affect the light in any way, he would have to have faster than light reflexes. He simply doesn't have the reaction times needed for him to divert or affect the nova flash in any way. Simply put before Magneto can even think about using his powers, his human eyes are already burned out from the visible light passing through the holes in his shield in the manner already described.




As for these scans:
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6231/magcontrolsphotons0ki.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magcontrolsphotons24qd.jpg
here is this description of the entire series:
Dazzler showed up at the Xavier Institute asking for help against the wrath of Age of Apocalypse inspired X-Babies. Arriving on Genosha, Magneto reflects Dazzler's attack and seemingly incinerating her. It was actually all a diversion, Magneto's attack was aimed only at a hologram giving Wolverine enough time to impale the evil mutant. Alison left the team after Magneto's defeat.

All Magneto "killed" in that scan was a hologram Dazzler which renders those scans almost entirely moot as none of holograms are attacking him in this fight. For all we know Dazzler could have made the hologram's "attacks" bounce off Magneto on purpose. Besides the hologram did not use the same method of attack that we are. Although it is interesting that he couldn't tell it was a hologram...




Lastly we would just like to submit this scan in reference to whether or not Magneto has complete control over every thing that enters and exits his shield.:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5811537
Obviously, he wants to keep the air in but he cannot. I think this clearly dispels the myth that Magneto can control everything that that enters and exits his shield.

------------------------------------------





Now I know that both sides have spent a considerable amount of time on this issue, but I don't want the judges to think that Magneto's blindness will determine the outcome of this fight in any significant way. That is only a part of our overall plan that and the order of our attacks is important to keep in mind. What the nova flash will do for our team is to hide the actions of our team, allowing them to create Galactus-fooling holograms of themselves, and allowing them to turn invisible (see our opening post for the scans proving this is possible). All of which will take a few seconds at the very most. After which the now invisible Surfer will fly at light speed, shrinking down to the Microverse, and penetrate Magneto's shield quickly killing him soon after.

Also any attacks that the other team can actually get off in the first seconds of the fight will be targeted harmlessly at the holograms.

Now I believe Darkcrawler may have been slightly confused about what exactly the Surfer is going to do as in his last post DC claimed that the Surfer is going to "turn himself into a photon." We never said such a thing. What we said was that the Surfer will become smaller than a photon, not become one. Leo has already explained how at this size Magneto's shield could not affect him. Also given the fact that he shield already allows in visible light the Surfer will easily be able to enter the shield (assuming it is even up at this point). Do keep in mind that the Surfer will be traveling at the speed of light so there isn't any possibility that Magneto could "detect" him in any way. Before the first nerve synapse in Magneto's body fires, the Surfer will already be inside of the shield.


However if you want more options we are happy to obliged.
*The Surfer could just render his body electrically neutral and enter the shield.
*Here Bishop, who is several rungs below the Surfer in terms of energy absorption, is able to absorb the energy from Magneto's shield and redirect it back at him to Magneto's misfortune:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5813980
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5813998
The Surfer, who has absorbed energy from entire stars before, would have an even easier time absorbing the electromagnetic energy from Magneto's shield.
*The Surfer could just transmute all the air inside of the shield into hydrochloric acid
*Or he could just bind Magneto will nonferrous material:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5814024

-----------------------------------





Now to deal with the issue of Captain Atom. I wish to clear up an issue with which version of Captain Atom is being used in this fight and how that relates to feats claimed by Batdude.


As for these scans:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6027/captimetravel15mi.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7104/captimetravel27kq.jpg

Gentlemen, if you're so certain that time travel (which has been banned and is consequently an illegal power btw) is really is a part of "silver" Captain Atom's power-set, and you're so sure there really IS no difference between the Wildstorm Atom and D.C. Atom, all you would need to do is find a scan of silver Captain Atom voluntarily traveling through time. The void provides time traveling abilities and reality altering abilities. He was given the Void sliver at the beginning of the series. How can we fairly allow a Void-enhanced Atom who shows time travel abilities he has never shown before WITHOUT the Void, be allowed in this debate? Who knows WHY Atom said what he said? Fact remains he hasn't SHOWN the ability before, and you can't claim he has it without proof. Regardless, as was mentioned already, said ability would be illegal in any event.


In short he would still be effectively out of the fight. The fact is that Captain Atom's "weakness" in regards to absorbing too much energy has been a key component of the character for decades. And the examples of relatively small, nuclear bomb scale explosions overloading him are just too numerous to discount no matter how much my honorable opponent wants you to.

-----------------------------------------------






In closing, our opening attack will be traveling too quickly (at light speed) for anyone on the other team to block, it will enter Magneto's shield for the reasons stated (the fact that visible light is already allowed in is chief among them), and the Surfer traveling at light speed will then follow the light from the nova attack into Magneto's shield and kill him. All this is happening while Maxima is proceeding against Captain Atom as Leo has already described while Hal takes on Morg. Keep in mind that Hal will easily get the drop on Morg as he is invisible and Morg will be attacking the holograms. Bats and DC have yet to prove in any way that morg has cosmic awareness of any kind to see through the illusions OR to sense an invisible Hal.

Soon Captain Atom will be double teamed and overloaded which leaves Morg against all three members of our team. (keep in mind that our team will be invisible during the whole fight). Thank you for your time

Was that a non official post Kahn?

Originally posted by Validus
Was that a non official post Kahn?

Non-official post:

In response to you official inquiry as to whether my last official post was indeed an official post or if it was another non-official, I would like to officially confirm that it was in fact official.




tongue_ss

I REALLY REALLY REALLY hope not


edit: Good

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
*another non-official*


He had learned time travel abilities before Wildstorm...

So if he's bumped back time...let's say a half a hour...he's out? Even if he could return from the BFR under his own power?

Can we just get rid of the time-travel BFR and the return?? Please?

Atom can be beat through normal means, right? And the whole time travel thing is just making me frustrated.

I don't know Digi.

Nate's quantum jump is a weakness no different from Superman and K-nite. DC and Batdude should have known (and obviously did know) it would come up during battle.

Originally posted by Validus
I don't know Digi.

Nate's quantum jump is a weakness no different from Superman and K-nite. DC and Batdude should have known (and obviously did know) it would come up during battle.

It's just hard saying that he can be beat that way, and not return via the same means. He can do that rather easily, right?

In few seconds.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Can we just get rid of the time-travel BFR and the return?? Please?

Atom can be beat through normal means, right? And the whole time travel thing is just making me frustrated.

Well the only problem is that Captain Atom's tendency to remove himself from the battle has been a standard aspect of the character for a very long time. Hell, it is even mentioned in the bio of him DC and Batdude used.

As such Leo and I have made it a very important part of our strategy and banning it at this point would seem to give DC and Batdude an unfair advantage. Much like Superman's weakness to kryptonite, this weakness is well known and should have been considered when DC and Batdude drafted Captain Atom or addressed in their prep time.


Voluntary time travel has been banned from the very start and they new that going in (so why they even mentioned the Wildstorm feat I do not know). IMO they knew the risks with associated with him at the time they drafted him and they knew the rules of the Tourney. Why should Leo and I get penalized just because they made a mistake? That just my thoughts on it.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Can we just get rid of the time-travel BFR and the return?? Please?

Atom can be beat through normal means, right? And the whole time travel thing is just making me frustrated.

non-official: what the hell, everyone else is doing it . . .

it really is the easiest way to be rid of him though -- you saw the scan of how easily max nearly got rid of him in one of my posts. and it IS a weakness. beyond that, i don't know that he really has a choice of whether he'll jump or not. i truly don't see why they simply aren't forced to show a scan of silver atom doing it since they are so sure of the fact it was within his powers to do it without the void present . . . and for the luv-a-pete -- SILVER is the character in the fight!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It's just hard saying that he can be beat that way, and not return via the same means. He can do that rather easily, right?
Well that would be up to Batdude to prove since Nathan is his character. If he can the debate simply continues as normal.

Alright, so we can't get rid of it.

But I'm correct in assuming Nate can be beat through other means, right?

If that's the case, I don't see why we can't just it be allowed both ways, with leo/kahn having the advantage of a 3-on-2 for a time until Nate can return to the battle (provided batdude can back up the claim that he could return quickly).

If it's not a "weakness" in normal comics (i.e. if he has the ability to return to the battle) I don't see why need to make it an artificial 'weakness' that hasn't been present in the character for years.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It's just hard saying that he can be beat that way, and not return via the same means. He can do that rather easily, right?

NO!! that's the point. SILVER atom has never -- to teh best of my knowledge -- SHOWN that ability. IF they find a scan showing he ca do it, THEN we can tackle teh legalities of his voluntarily traveling back. but until such time, the character they are using has NOT shown the ability and it is not listed in his bio they provided.

So old school Atom couldn't, but WS Atom can travel easily? is that the issue?

YES!!!! like i said, it's not even in his bio.

Originally posted by leonidas
NO!! that's the point. SILVER atom has never -- to teh best of my knowledge -- SHOWN that ability. IF they find a scan showing he ca do it, THEN we can tackle teh legalities of his voluntarily traveling back. but until such time, the character they are using has NOT shown the ability and it is not listed in his bio they provided.

We already know that Captain Atom can travel under his own power. Wildstorm Captain Atom is the same Atom, he wasn't even aware of the Void. He said that he had done it in past (before even getting to Wildstorm) and he had been taught to do that. We don't need to provide any more scans when it is already stated on panel that he CAN and HAS done so, without Wildstorm.

gladiator SAID he ripped a star in half. hulk SAID he was the strongest. not the same thing dc, and i guarantee if you were in my position you'd be arguing against it too.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
We already know that Captain Atom can travel under his own power. Wildstorm Captain Atom is the same Atom, he wasn't even aware of the Void. He said that he had done it in past (before even getting to Wildstorm) and he had been taught to do that. We don't need to provide any more scans when it is already stated on panel that he CAN and HAS done so, without Wildstorm.

That should settle it then, right? If either iteration could do it, I'd feel inclined to allow it, simply because allow a BFR by the same means, but not the return seems disngenuous. I don't want to create a "weakness" in the character that doesn't actually exist in the comics.

I'd refer back to this though....

Originally posted by DigiMark007
But I'm correct in assuming Nate can be beat through other means, right?

If that's the case, I don't see why we can't just it be allowed both ways, with leo/kahn having the advantage of a 3-on-2 for a time until Nate can return to the battle (provided batdude can back up the claim that he could return quickly).

If it's not a "weakness" in normal comics (i.e. if he has the ability to return to the battle) I don't see why need to make it an artificial 'weakness' that hasn't been present in the character for years.

The BFR can still act as an advantage, and I'm assuming Atom can be defeated through other means as well.

P.S. I agree somewhat leo, but Atom wasn't boasting or anything...it was more statement of fact. he would have little reason to lie about knowing this technique beforehand.

Again, judges can decide if they want to believe it or not....they're certainly free to choose either way depending on what they feel is the better argument. You're more than welcome to continue to debate against the return as a tactic...but I'm pretty much done making decrees.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
That should settle it then, right? If either iteration could do it, I'd feel inclined to allow it, simply because allow a BFR by the same means, but not the return seems disngenuous. I don't want to create a "weakness" in the character that doesn't actually exist in the comics.

I'd refer back to this though....



The BFR can still act as an advantage, and I'm assuming Atom can be defeated through other means as well.

P.S. I agree somewhat leo, but Atom wasn't boasting or anything...it was more statement of fact. he would have little reason to lie about knowing this technique beforehand.

Again, judges can decide if they want to believe it or not....they're certainly free to choose either way depending on what they feel is the better argument. You're more than welcome to continue to debate against the return as a tactic...but I'm pretty much done making decrees.

ahhh, all right. then i'm done too.

And any Void influence on CA isn't allowed (because it was so temporary)...I think we covered that a while ago.

So yeah, DC/batdude can argue for the time-travel return with that scan, and leo/kahn can argue against regular CA being able to do so if they want as well. But I won't be decreeing who is 'right' in this situation since it isn't clear. That will be for the judges.

Originally posted by leonidas
gladiator SAID he ripped a star in half. hulk SAID he was the strongest. not the same thing dc, and i guarantee if you were in my position you'd be arguing against it too. That is not the same thing and you know it. Atom was not boasting, he was stating a fact.

He can time travel under his own power, and we have proof to that. You, in turn have nothing against it.

Just stating the facts. Batdude will do the same, I think...

LAST NON-OFFICIAL POST

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
That is not the same thing and you know it. Atom was not boasting, he was stating a fact.

He can time travel under his own power, and we have proof to that. You, in turn have nothing against it.

Just stating the facts. Batdude will do the same, I think...

actually, prove glads did NOT rip the star in half . . .

as for the fact that we have 'nothing against it' . . . well, the fact that a silver atom (you know, the one you're using . . .) has never been shown to time travel, is rather a large bit of proof i thought . . .

as i said, no worries though.

Originally posted by leonidas
LAST NON-OFFICIAL POST



actually, prove glads did NOT rip the star in half . . .

as for the fact that we have 'nothing against it' . . . well, the fact that a silver atom (you know, the one you're using . . .) has never been shown to time travel, is rather a large bit of proof i thought . . .

as i said, no worries though.

-nonofficial-

Thanks for understanding leo.

These non official posts are killing me. What's the point in even having a 9 post rule?

-Non-official-
I don't like non-officials either, but would take ages to solve a small thing like that otherwise.

We are not solving the fight itself.

Originally posted by illadelph12


Post count:

DC: 3/9 (Unless Digi deems first post as prep post)
Leo: 2/9
Bat: 1/9
Kahn: 2/9

As for the Surfer solar flare attack, I've seen no evidence either way that it would effect or not effect Magneto. Captain Atom has been shown to be at least momentarily susceptible to extreme luminal exposure.

More evidence is required in the case of Magneto.

At this point, and given his powerset, I'm leaning towards the solar flare attack not permanently disabling him, if at all, but this stance is not permanent and can be changed or affirmed with proper and more conclusive evidence being provided.

Be careful of your post counts also. It's only Monday.

-non official-

Leo actually has three posts.

Originally posted by batdude123
-non official-

Leo actually has three posts.

First post split due to character quota. It was one post.

Post count:

DC: 5/9 (Unless Digi deems first post as prep post)
Leo: 3/9
Bat: 3/9
Kahn: 4/9

Digi, on page 3 there's a sequence of posts that weren't deemed non-official, but I assumed they were. Could you clarify. I only added one of these for DC and Leo until I saw what the line of dialogue pertained too. These unnofficial posts are throwing me off.

Originally posted by illadelph12


Post count:

DC: 5/9 (Unless Digi deems first post as prep post)
Leo: 3/9
Bat: 3/9
Kahn: 4/9

Digi, on page 3 there's a sequence of posts that weren't deemed non-official, but I assumed they were. Could you clarify. I only added one of these for DC and Leo until I saw what the line of dialogue pertained too. These unnofficial posts are throwing me off.

I can understand the problem keeping track of all of them. However I've only made 3 post relating to strategy in this debate. Two on page 1 and one on page 3.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I can understand the problem keeping track of all of them. However I've only made 3 post relating to strategy in this debate. Two on page 1 and one on page 3.

You also have a post on page 2 which Validus asked you if it was official and you said it was. It includes scans and an argumrent.

I'm about to perform a recount right now.

Originally posted by illadelph12




You also have a post on page 2 which Validus asked you if it was official and you said it was. It includes scans and an argumrent.

I'm about to perform a recount right now.

Damn, I mistyped that. I have 2 responses on the first page and 1 response on the second. Sorry for mix-up, Illadelph.

First, I would just like to take the time to say Leo's and my plan never depended on Magneto being blind to work. Hell, the whole point of the nova flash attack was simply to provide our team with cover while we turned ourselves invisible and created the holograms. This, added to our superior speed, allows us to dictate the terms of the fight. The fact that it would blind Magneto and Captain Atom was only an added bonus.

The fact of the matter is that as soon as the Surfer creates the nova flash and the holograms, he will be headed towards Magneto at light speed. With the Surfer traveling at such a speed, Magneto's human reaction times are woefully inadequate to enable him to do anything, literally. He doesn't even have time to form a single thought or preform a single act. This is the same circumstance that the Hulk or Juggernaut has faced on this forum when placed against Superman countless times before. They are all far too slow to face off in any real way against opponents with this kind of speed.

Along the way the Surfer will shrink down in size to the point where Magneto's electromagnetic energy will not affect him as Leo has already explained in depth. Once inside the shield the Surfer can kill Magneto in more ways than I could possibly list here.

But say that isn't enough for you, say you want more carnage, say you want to see Magneto die over and over again. Well the Cosmic Caballeros are happy to oblige. Alternately, the Surfer could:
*absorb Magneto's shield, as Bishop has done
*wrap Magneto in non-ferrous materials which neutralizes his powers, as a Sentinel has done
*Or, if your just damn tired of all this talk about shields, the Surfer could just transmute all the air in Magneto's shield into hydrochloric acid.



The moral of the story, boys and girls, is that in a bare moment after the fight has started Magneto is dead no matter if he is blind or not blind, shielded or not shielded, original recipe or extra crispy. It just doesn't matter.


Originally posted by DarkCrawler

Transmuting was banned, I believe


Sorry, transmutation is perfectly allowable. The only thing that has been banned is direct transmutation of an opponent's body. The environment and everything else is fair game.

---------------------------------



Now on to Captain Atom. I know a great deal has been said on overloading Capitan Atom with energy, but I'd like to talk about the physical aspect of the fight with him.

As we can easily see from the Captain Atom vs Mary Marvel fight, which DC comics treats as canon, Captain Atom is a bit of a physical lightweight. The problem is that in this fight, a blind Captain Atom will be facing two invisible opponents who are far superior in terms of physical combat.

And as we can see a Captain Atom who can't see his opponents isn't an EFFECTIVE Captain Atom:

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/7789/mf12ic.jpg

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1755/mf23jk.jpg

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6043/mf33ca.jpg

Did Major Force just rip-off the Thing?


As I have already shown the Surfer was able to take on and overload a character who had 50x the power of Gladiator and had the Uni-Power. While Leo has posted several scans demonstrating the impressive level of Maxima's physical and telepathic powers along with a list of the top tier characters she has taken down. Captain Atom will be facing both of these characters while suffering from a debilitating handicap. To put it mildly, he will quickly find himself in a world of trouble.

Hell, Batdude hasn't even attempted to explain how Captain Atom could possibly withstand the attacks Leo is having Maxima preform, much less how he can stand up to both characters at the same time.

------------------------------------



Now we have to give Hal and Morg a little love as they have really been sitting on the sidelines of this debate.

First to the question of whether Hal's pre-Crisis feats are in continuity. Unfortunately for Batdude and DarkCrawler they are. You see while his origin was altered in Emerald Dawn, all his Pre-Crisis feats are valid since the entire GLC save for Guy Gardner were in another dimension during Crisis. The ORIGINAL reason he had gray hair on the Post Crisis Earth was to show that he wasn't rebooted and thus was older than Superman, Batman and the rest.

Keep in mind that our entire team has the advantage of being invisible and in the fight between Hal and Morg this truly comes to the forefront. You see DarkCrawler and Batdude have failed to prove that Morg has cosmic awareness or any other ability that would allow him to detect Hal. Thus Morg is reduced to little more than a punching bag for a guy who can take on the entire JLA and move/destroy planetary objects with a thought. As if that wasn't bad enough soon after the other two members of our team finish trouncing Magneto and Captain Atom, they will all gang up on Morg assuming he is still conscious.



Once again thank you for your time.


Stay Kahny.....Keep Kahning.....uummm...Bub?.... I'm gonna have to work on this part.

I'm surprised Marvel didn't sue.

Continue...

Nova blasts, blinding flashes, light boxes, etc, etc...... do any of you know how much brighter than a star a simple laser is?

go look it up

.....

Official Post Counts:

Batdude: 4/9
DC: 8/9
Leo: 5/9
Kahn: 4/9

Originally posted by illadelph12


Official Post Counts:

Batdude: 4/9
DC: 8/9
Leo: 5/9
Kahn: 4/9

-nonofficial- (sorry )

Actually, DC only has 6/9 OFFICIAL posts. The ones on page three weren't official.

Originally posted by batdude123
-nonofficial- (sorry )

Actually, DC only has 6/9 OFFICIAL posts. The ones on page three weren't official.

This post:

Originally posted by DarkCrawler




We already know that Captain Atom can travel under his own power. Wildstorm Captain Atom is the same Atom, he wasn't even aware of the Void. He said that he had done it in past (before even getting to Wildstorm) and he had been taught to do that. We don't need to provide any more scans when it is already stated on panel that he CAN and HAS done so, without Wildstorm.

and this post:

Originally posted by DarkCrawler




That is not the same thing and you know it. Atom was not boasting, he was stating a fact.

He can time travel under his own power, and we have proof to that. You, in turn have nothing against it.

Just stating the facts. Batdude will do the same, I think...

by DC were not flagged as non-official posts, and were direct retorts to an opponent's comments in this battle.

I counted them as official posts.

Captain Atom isnt his character therefore wouldnt those posts be nulled?

Not nulled, wasted, just as newjak's Kyle post was.

The illegal argument is nulled. The post counts against the quota.

Correction:

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Nah sorry. That's the idea behind the post limit. If we allowed 1 post to spill over into the next, we could have "1 post" be 20,000 characters. Either shorten it or make it 2...and for what it's worth, you're not the first to have this problem, and the decision has been the same for everyone.

Therefore, Leo has 6/9.


Official Post Counts:

Batdude: 4/9
DC: 8/9
Leo: 6/9
Kahn: 4/9 [/B

Correction:

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Nah sorry. That's the idea behind the post limit. If we allowed 1 post to spill over into the next, we could have "1 post" be 20,000 characters. Either shorten it or make it 2...and for what it's worth, you're not the first to have this problem, and the decision has been the same for everyone.

Therefore, Leo has 6/9.


Official Post Counts:

Batdude: 4/9
DC: 8/9
Leo: 6/9
Kahn: 4/9

you REALLY don't get this? dc, i'm not questioning why 'all imaginable attacks' wouldn't cover blinding . . . what i'm 'questioning' is your team's ability (and by 'your team i mean you and bats) to SAY he's 'prepared to deal with ALL imaginable attacks!' but now i see it's all right. at the start of the tourn, kahn and i didn't know that these all-inclusive type deals were legal, so we've switched our invisibilty and attack a little bit. how's this: instead of simply making us invisible, hal makes us invisible to ALL IMAGINABLE TYPES OF SENSES! yep, that includes magnetic, quantum and cosmic senses. i mean he HAS faced each type of opponent before, so why couldn't he? and while we are COMPLETELY undetectable from all imaginable senses, he has all day to whip up a little ray gun that shoots out 'every imaginable weakness!' and kills you all! i mean if the judges are willing to overlook your 'all-inclusive shielding', then surely they can overlook our 'all-inclusive invisibility' and 'all-inclusive weapon'. right . . .?



wrong, completely refutable but wholly irrelevant to this debate. he dies instantly, regardless of whatever level of durability you attribute to him.



judges can decide if they believe he is blinded or not. the issue is old. more important: blind or not -- he dies an instant later



um, how did atom shield himself again . . .? now, first, malice was looking at it through the window of a spaceship! you don't think the window would be specially shielded?? it would just let in any stray cosmic rays?? secondly, the Surfer had to create enough light to blind someone with 6 SOUL GEMS for pete's sake! AND third, they were fighting in a realm she created so he was cut off from his normal source of energy! as an aside, it is also PAINFULLY obvious the goal of the writer was to have sue and reed face off . . .

i like these next three:



ahh, blessed PIS. angel_not the forum-wide annoucement of desperation. and no less than THREE consecutive cries of PIS! you guys seem to be doing that a lot to our scans . . .



you know me better than that dc. but just cuz i'm not hatin' doesn't mean i can't poke fun at some of your teams rebuttals. pokey



you really ARE confused about this, eh. no hate, just legitimate misunderstanding. this is from my prior post where i explain the attack:

<<now, when the ss shrinks, he actually becomes SMALLER than a photon. do you see where this is heading . . .? he is so small, no information can be related regarding him to the charged particles that look like planets all around him. to mag's em shielding, ss is in all ways, 'not there'.>>

dc, he DOES NOT AND NEVER DID enter the microverse. he becomes so small that the em force in effect cannot 'see' him. he NEVER leaves our universe. never. in the scan he HAD to shrink all the way out of the universe. here he DOES NOT have to get that small to effortlessly get through the shield. so he STAYS in this universe, the distance is less than nothing to someone who can travel thousands of light years in moments AND his cosmic senses remain perfectly in tact. capiche?



equal or greater?

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8281/morg81at.jpg

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/82/morg99gb.jpg

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/2599/morg107qr.jpg

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/148/morg117um.jpg

note morg cannot HEAL, as surfer can. why would/should we assume he has ss's OTHER abilities, like cosmic awareness . . .?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Nah sorry. That's the idea behind the post limit. If we allowed 1 post to spill over into the next, we could have "1 post" be 20,000 characters. Either shorten it or make it 2...and for what it's worth, you're not the first to have this problem, and the decision has been the same for everyone.

Sorry Leo.

You should copy the "direct link to image" url and post it as a link rather than an image. You can make an appeal to Digi given the circumstances. Maybe he'll make an exception.

As it stands now, those are 2 posts against your quota, and you now stand at 8/9.

Originally posted by illadelph12




Sorry Leo.

You should copy the "direct link to image" url and post it as a link rather than an image. You can make an appeal to Digi given the circumstances. Maybe he'll make an exception.

As it stands now, those are 2 posts against your quota, and you now stand at 8/9.

What he said. You would have been able to make it 1 post if you just posted the links. But as it is, they can't be combined as they are and I can't declare 2 posts to be 1 (I'm nigh-omnicient, but I stop at changing basic laws of math and physics).

So sorry leo. I feel bad, but I have to rule the same for everyone.

Originally posted by illadelph12




This post:




We already know that Captain Atom can travel under his own power. Wildstorm Captain Atom is the same Atom, he wasn't even aware of the Void. He said that he had done it in past (before even getting to Wildstorm) and he had been taught to do that. We don't need to provide any more scans when it is already stated on panel that he CAN and HAS done so, without Wildstorm.

and this post:




That is not the same thing and you know it. Atom was not boasting, he was stating a fact.

He can time travel under his own power, and we have proof to that. You, in turn have nothing against it.

Just stating the facts. Batdude will do the same, I think...

by DC were not flagged as non-official posts, and were direct retorts to an opponent's comments in this battle.

I counted them as official posts.

-nonofficial-

Yeah, those were non official posts on DC's part.

Originally posted by batdude123
and this post:




That is not the same thing and you know it. Atom was not boasting, he was stating a fact.

He can time travel under his own power, and we have proof to that. You, in turn have nothing against it.

Just stating the facts. Batdude will do the same, I think...





They weren't marked as non-official posts, and they were both direct retorts to the comments made by leonidas, a combatant in this battle.

They are official posts, and DC has now reached his 9 post quota.

We are enforcing the rules down the middle. I'm sorry DC and Batdude, but those 2 posts count against DC's quota. The remaining argument is up to you Batdude.

Originally posted by illadelph12








They weren't marked as non-official posts, and they were both direct retorts to the comments made by leonidas, a combatant in this battle.

They are official posts, and DC has now reached his 9 post quota.

We are enforcing the rules down the middle. I'm sorry DC and Batdude, but those 2 posts count against DC's quota. The remaining argument is up to you Batdude.

-nonofficial-

No, they were simply discussing the matter at hand. It was a joint discussion between the judges and the opponents. I pmed Digi, and he said that it's okay for them to count as nonofficial posts.

NON_OFFICIAL

umm, who's judging this again . . .

waht do the other judges think? and if they're NOT official then i get another post as well, correct . . .

Originally posted by illadelph12




This post:




We already know that Captain Atom can travel under his own power. Wildstorm Captain Atom is the same Atom, he wasn't even aware of the Void. He said that he had done it in past (before even getting to Wildstorm) and he had been taught to do that. We don't need to provide any more scans when it is already stated on panel that he CAN and HAS done so, without Wildstorm.

and this post:









The 2 above referenced posts by DC were direct retorts to comments made by leonidas and were not marked non-official. DC marked his prior and subsequent non-official posts as such:

Prior:

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
-Not an official post-

Just want to clear up some misconceptions here...

Captain Atom states that "Just a little trick that Quantum boys taught me". This is while Captain Atom was normal. He has been taught how to use his powers to time travel back and forward. He also states "It's been a long time since I've done this", so he's done it before. The comic clearly says that he can timetravel under his own power. Time is part of the Quantum Field.

Subsequent:

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
-Non-official-
I don't like non-officials either, but would take ages to solve a small thing like that otherwise.

We are not solving the fight itself.

Marked non-official by DC.

As it stands now, DC has reached his 9 post quota.

If you've made an appeal to Digi and he states that those 2 post can be marked non-official, so be it. Have Digi post his judgement here in the thread or forward the PM he sent you to me. I'll also PM Digi and have him read over the posts in question before a rushed/misinformed decision is made.

We're trying to enforce the rules fairly for all parties involved here.

I apologize if I come across as cold. My apartment was robbed yesterday and I'm not in the best of moods.

Also, I work in the field of law and the lawyer in me comes out in my debating/posting at times.

personally i think those couple posts by DC should be non-offical. I will render verdict on the fight at eleven or eleven thirty.

This match is now closed.

The only posts that are allowed are judges votes that may not have come in yet. The poll will close itself at midnight tonight so that can still be going on as well.

There's been a bunch of controversy about the post counts and such. I'm going to pull rank and simply say that whatever is in this thread as of right now is acceptable.

If anyone feels there has been some wrong with the post count, let's just be gentlemen about it and ignore it. All 4 participants have had ample opportunity to post their strategies. I doubt a small post-squabble will be the deciding factor in the match.

...in the future I'll try to do something about the non-official post nonsense...

Seriously, Digi... I was JUST about to put on another post. Do you mind if I put it on here?

Just in case Digi okays my pms I gave him (if he says no, then just disregard this post)

{edit by Digi}

My apologies mate, but I never said midnight. I simply said late on Saturday (as it is, I closed it around 7PM where I am) and that participants should have their arguments in by Friday or early Saturday at the latest.

If any judges read batdude's post, I can't exactly tell you to ignore what he said if it left an impact on you. But I'm editing this now to remain fair to the closure of the thread prior to this.

Meh, teh restart!

...just stop at midnight....I won't be around to yell if you don't.

I'll handle the yelling.

After reading every thing that you have said to this point, I am voting for The Cosmic Caballeros. Their plan just seems more solid, they kept the Forces of Nature on the defensive through most of this debate and took the fight to F.O.N. from the start, setting the pace for the whole thing. I can see their plan happening where all i see for F.O.N. is, this keeps my character alive, this keeps the other alive. Plus Forces of Nature didn't use Morg practically at all, where the Cosmic Caballeros Had every member jump all over the F.O.N. within seconds of the duel start. Thats my take of the fight.

Why you son of a *****!!! Nah, just kidding.

I'm going to have to agree with outarddwarf. For the most part I've seen FON on the defense, and I'm not entirely convinced that some parts of the defensive strategy would work. So my vote goes to the Cosmic Caballeros too.

I'd like to think that you guys had difficulty choosing who to win.

Originally posted by batdude123
I'd like to think that you guys had difficulty choosing who to win. Don't get me wrong, I was impressed with both sides. In the end though CC came off slightly better.

Bah!! I need some of newjak's cake!

{Judges Vote from the coolest Judge}
Well Both sides did good but I'm gonna have to go with the Forces of Nature on this one I think the Morg arguements were great and overall they had the stronger characters sorry Leo/Khan my vote counts as 4 so you loose.
And some cake for the winners Batdude/Darkcrawler you earned it.

AH HA!!!

I'd still like Val and Ill to give their opinion.

Originally posted by newjak86
{Judges Vote from the coolest Judge}
Well Both sides did good but I'm gonna have to go with the Forces of Nature on this one I think the Morg arguements were great and overall they had the stronger characters sorry Leo/Khan my vote counts as 4 so you loose.
And some cake for the winners Batdude/Darkcrawler you earned it.

you suck
disgust

but the cosmic cabbies rock!!sombrero2sombrero2sombrero2

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and i guess with 2 judges and the people poll 15-12 as of 12:23 est (damn that poll was close . . .) on our side that means we'll be seeing you and bw in the next round, newjak . . .

yee-haw, let's saddle that puppy up!

Originally posted by leonidas
you suck
disgust

but the cosmic cabbies rock!!sombrero2sombrero2sombrero2 We'll see better bring your A-Game CCs because the LOCOc are crazy, you never know what we are gonna do

Originally posted by batdude123
I'd still like Val and Ill to give their opinion.

I'm voting for the Cosmic Caballeros or should I say Silver Surfer and His Amazing Friends?

Seriously, even though I thought Green Lantern was grossly underused the entire time I have to give them to vote. For one, when Leo and Kahn said Surfer was the fastest person here and thus they pick who fights who, they were exactly right. Norrin's speed is going to be a huge asset throughout this thing and the Forces of Nature didn't have much to defend against it.

Another point I didn't like was Magneto's all encompassing shield. It was way too vague and even if it would have stopped Surfer's nova attack, I didn't really see the FoN try to defend against the acid bath transmutation trick. Either way, I wasn't convinced Eric could last too long at all against the most powerful herald of Galactus which was a hell of a long shot to begin with.

The second major point in the match up was Captain Atom's quantum jump weakness. The CC made a smart choice to shift the debate in that direction. Why? The debate focused so much on that aspect of Nathan's power, the FoN never really got the chance to flesh out any offensive strategy for him. What was he going to do to Maxima who Leo had psi-bolting him to death? Either he would quantum jump and return quickly if he was lucky (I dunno) or just be KO'd by a combo of that and her Superman-level punches.

As for Morg? Underused almost as badly as Hal Jordan. He's the most powerful member of the FoN and just like Atom, he didn't really have any offensive strategy. He could have taken it to Surfer or Hal but with Magneto already down, it was a numbers game. No way he beats two of the premier herald level characters out there by himself.

To sum up, it comes down to Surfer's speed controlling the initial activity of the match and the good offensive back up he received from Maxima.

Hell of a job done by DC and Batdude though. On paper, your team is probably on of the lower end of power in this tournament and you were matched up against easily the most stacked team here. The fact that I had a hard time reaching a decision says a lot.

Originally posted by leonidas
and i guess with 2 judges and the people poll 15-12 as of 12:23 est (damn that poll was close . . .) on our side that means we'll be seeing you and bw in the next round, newjak . . .

yee-haw, let's saddle that puppy up!



I have many plans for your team
dont I ALWAYS have a plan?

Originally posted by Blair Wind


I have many plans for your team
dont I ALWAYS have a plan?

here's a novel sugestion: try keeping your plans within the rules this time.

and without me backing your ass up this time, we'll see how it goes for you . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
here's a novel sugestion: try keeping your plans within the rules this time.

and without me backing your ass up this time, we'll see how it goes for you . . . Well if you look at only two things of ours got overturned.

One being SuperShaman at the begining and the other was me debating for the Constructs. So everything else legal and coming for you

Originally posted by Validus
I'm voting for the Cosmic Caballeros or should I say Silver Surfer and His Amazing Friends?

Seriously, even though I thought Green Lantern was grossly underused the entire time I have to give them to vote. For one, when Leo and Kahn said Surfer was the fastest person here and thus they pick who fights who, they were exactly right. Norrin's speed is going to be a huge asset throughout this thing and the Forces of Nature didn't have much to defend against it.

Another point I didn't like was Magneto's all encompassing shield. It was way too vague and even if it would have stopped Surfer's nova attack, I didn't really see the FoN try to defend against the acid bath transmutation trick. Either way, I wasn't convinced Eric could last too long at all against the most powerful herald of Galactus which was a hell of a long shot to begin with.

The second major point in the match up was Captain Atom's quantum jump weakness. The CC made a smart choice to shift the debate in that direction. Why? The debate focused so much on that aspect of Nathan's power, the FoN never really got the chance to flesh out any offensive strategy for him. What was he going to do to Maxima who Leo had psi-bolting him to death? Either he would quantum jump and return quickly if he was lucky (I dunno) or just be KO'd by a combo of that and her Superman-level punches.

As for Morg? Underused almost as badly as Hal Jordan. He's the most powerful member of the FoN and just like Atom, he didn't really have any offensive strategy. He could have taken it to Surfer or Hal but with Magneto already down, it was a numbers game. No way he beats two of the premier herald level characters out there by himself.

To sum up, it comes down to Surfer's speed controlling the initial activity of the match and the good offensive back up he received from Maxima.

Hell of a job done by DC and Batdude though. On paper, your team is probably on of the lower end of power in this tournament and you were matched up against easily the most stacked team here. The fact that I had a hard time reaching a decision says a lot.

Thanks for your opinion Val.

Outard + Val + the poll = Leo and Kahn win.

X and Ill can still offer their input if they'd like, but congrats to the Cosmic Cowboys (or whatever) and good luck in the next round (which will start a week from today).

Well, regardless of the fact that we lost, I hope Captain Atom gets more respect around here.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Outard + Val + the poll = Leo and Kahn win.

X and Ill can still offer their input if they'd like, but congrats to the Cosmic Cowboys (or whatever) and good luck in the next round (which will start a week from today). Um X already made her Vote before Val.

Originally posted by newjak86
Um X already made her Vote before Val.

I thought X was a dude?

X is a dude....

and Leo, trust me.....we will surprise you

This match was rigged from the start.

Great match, guys.

likewise dc. and i know i have a lot more respect for the ws version of atom . . .





















ps-tell me seriously: if you were us would YOU have argued against him bats?

Originally posted by leonidas
ps-tell me seriously: if you were us would YOU have argued against him bats?

Nope.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
X is a dude....

and Leo, trust me.....we will surprise you

oh, i don't doubt it. but . . . we have a little something cooked up special just for you too . . .

oh, and val--hal was INTENTIONALLY under-used. we didn't really need him, and we didn't really want to show some of the stuff he was capable of . . . don't worry. he'll have a slightly larger role to play in the upcoming match . . .

Originally posted by batdude123
Nope.

liar.