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Now the interesting part

Anakin Skywalker did have a father, but to find it you had to listen carefully and put the facts together

I haven't watched the movies for a while so I won't bother quoting the actual words used, but I am sure you will check if you want to.

Shmi tells Qui Gon that there was no father, that it was an "immaculate conception" so to speak. Qui Gon deduces he was born of the midichlorians. This was important to know why??? No other star wars movie discussed Midi chlorians.

Skip to 3

Palpatine tells anakin about plagueis. He even states he could even create life NOW WHEN PALPATINE SAYS THIS, listen to the emphasis, right as he says life he looks at anakin, directly at him, not a side glance or a nod but right at him. Now Palpatine saw Plagueis do this so we know that Plagueis created life. Palpatine always knew about anakin and where he was becuase he saw Plagueis create him.

This was on tatooine because it was a backwater world and the work done there would have been around 9 years before Ep 1. Perfect time for Sidious to kill Plagueis and begin the End Game. People think that Sidious Lost the first round (Ep 1 - Trade Federation Beaten) But let's look at Sidious, This guy was a master planner - The ultimate in Machiavellian scheming. Naboo and the blockade was all for 3 reasons. Not one but 3

1 - to get a droid army up and running to foreshadow the CIS
2 - to get elected Supreme Chancellor
3 - to get anakin into the jedi order.

SUCCESS ON ALL POINTS

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/588/ogm7mh.jpg

You crack me up Blaxican.

Lucas left the identity of Anakin's "father" as ambiguous, but people can argue that Palpatine or Plagueis were responsible. There are theories to support both.

Can't say about the theory with palpatine

But we KNOW for sure that PLAGUIES did it once. THerefore you have someone born of the midichlorians. Anakin was extremely powerful becuase of this.

If Palpatine did it, then there would be two extremely powerful force users out there. Not so, only Anakin

Yes Lucas never came out and said it, but he never came out and said a lot of things.

IT is all too chilling when you look at the way that palpatine looks directly at Anakin when he says life. You almost expect him to say "You"

Originally posted by Archangelysses
Can't say about the theory with palpatine

But we KNOW for sure that PLAGUIES did it once. THerefore you have someone born of the midichlorians. Anakin was extremely powerful becuase of this.

If Palpatine did it, then there would be two extremely powerful force users out there. Not so, only Anakin

Yes Lucas never came out and said it, but he never came out and said a lot of things.

IT is all too chilling when you look at the way that palpatine looks directly at Anakin when he says life. You almost expect him to say "You"

Erm . . . Palpatine was an extremely powerful Force user.

Yes he was, But even he admitted that Anakin would become more powerful and the way he said it implied not by just a little but infinitely more powerful

Going by that, then any other midi chlorian created being would be just as powerful as anakin. two vergences of the force, I don't know but that seems doubtful

Originally posted by Archangelysses
You crack me up Blaxican.


I crack everyone up.

It's my talent.

Originally posted by Archangelysses
Can't say about the theory with palpatine

But we KNOW for sure that PLAGUIES did it once. THerefore you have someone born of the midichlorians. Anakin was extremely powerful becuase of this.

If Palpatine did it, then there would be two extremely powerful force users out there. Not so, only Anakin

Yes Lucas never came out and said it, but he never came out and said a lot of things.

IT is all too chilling when you look at the way that palpatine looks directly at Anakin when he says life. You almost expect him to say "You" I ain't familiar with what background Plagueis has, but when did Plagueis perform this power?

There are huge timeline errors with Plagueis creating Anakin. It's not viable, unless it takes longer than dozens of years for "teh Ch0sen Ones" to get conceived.

Originally posted by Archangelysses
Yes he was, But even he admitted that Anakin would become more powerful and the way he said it implied not by just a little but infinitely more powerful

Going by that, then any other midi chlorian created being would be just as powerful as anakin. two vergences of the force, I don't know but that seems doubtful

According to Lucas, Anakin could've been twice as strong as Palpatine.

However, if Palpatine had the power to create Anakin, it still wouldn't make him more powerful than Anakin. Just better versed and more experienced in the Force.

Which he was.

We don't know if Plagueis actually did or not. The New Essential Chronology of Star Wars states that it is unknown if Plagueis performed it before Palpatine murdered him. But Palpatine murdered him because he saw Anakin as a future replacement.

We'll have to wait for the Plagueis novel.

Originally posted by Captain REX
We don't know if Plagueis actually did or not. The New Essential Chronology of Star Wars states that it is unknown if Plagueis performed it before Palpatine murdered him. But Palpatine murdered him because he saw Anakin as a future replacement.

We'll have to wait for the Plagueis novel.

See, I always wondered why Palpatine would murder Plageuis without ensuring that he had his knowledge . . .

plagueis did it. that's one of the reasons sidious killed him. he read it as a threat to him being apprentice. plagueis wanted a powerdul apprentice. it backfired. sidious did the same thing to maul and dooku. he needed them to set the stage for chancellor and ruling the galaxy. that's when he got vader.

Originally posted by UltimateStryfe
plagueis did it. that's one of the reasons sidious killed him. he read it as a threat to him being apprentice. plagueis wanted a powerdul apprentice. it backfired. sidious did the same thing to maul and dooku. he needed them to set the stage for chancellor and ruling the galaxy. that's when he got vader. That's only your theory.

it's legit

Originally posted by UltimateStryfe
it's legit

No, it's not.

It would be legitimate if it were proven.

what i meant is that it is based on observed habits, events and circumstances. it is not proven until Lucas says it, obviously.

People. Palpatine clearly stated that Plagueis could create life. Not possibly create, not said he could create. Palpatine was being literal. Therefore Plagueis performed this talent minimum once. Ala Anakin
Look closely at the way Palpatine says this to Anakin.

we know it could have happened 9 years prior. We don't know for sure when plagueis was killed. why is that so hard, and what errors in the timeline Generic Hero, I know of nothing that specifies anything clearly prior to ep 1 or around 9 years prior. where does this dozens of years come from

Dude. There can only be 2 Sith.

Maul was Palpatine's apprentice since infancy. Let's say 4 years old.

Which means Plagueis was last alive 18 years before TPM. Let's say he creates Anakin right before he died.

Anakin was born 10 years before TPM.

It doesn't work, unless he spent some 8 years in his momma's tummy.

Yes Maul was Palpatine's Apprentice from birth, no argument.

So by that fact alone, Maul was lord of the sith from birth. No I don't think so.

Maul became Dark Lord of the Sith later in life.

Remember Assajj was Dooku's Apprentice, but she was not a sith lord just an apprentice. and never became a sith. therefore the rule of 2 was unbroken. Maul may not have become Darth Maul until 9 years prior to ep 1.

Originally posted by Generic Hero
Dude. There can only be 2 Sith.

Maul was Palpatine's apprentice since infancy. Let's say 4 years old.

Which means Plagueis was last alive 18 years before TPM. Let's say he creates Anakin right before he died.

Anakin was born 10 years before TPM.

It doesn't work, unless he spent some 8 years in his momma's tummy.

sidious secretly had maul while he was still apprenticed to plagueis

Prove this for me.



No, Asajj wasn't Dooku's apprentice. She was never trained in Dooku's Sith arts. She worked for him, that's it.

Actually each novelization and comic adaption of clone wars clearly states apprentice. Just not sith trained.

Already proved. Your argument has maul a dark lord of the sith at 4 years old. I dont think he was that good at 4

Happy Father's Day Skywalker!

No. In dark reandvous (Spelling) Assaj asks Dooku to make her his apprentice, and he turns her down. Assaj is not his apprentice, ut his pupil. Theirs a differance.

Assaj? That girl is f weird

Proof? Sources please.



He was trained in Sith teachings from birth. Nothing's wrong with a 4 year old Sith. Being "good" has nothing to do with you being a Sith.

Maul followed the Sith code, was taught in the Sith teachings and learned the dark side of the force. Age has little to do with the matter.

Also I would like to point out that Palpatine was a very skill liar. Hell he could even lie to a jedi and they would not know. The only reason Anakin figured out the truth about Palpatine was cause Palpatine purposly let it slip about his knowledge of the dark side.

Wookipiedia implies that Palpatine began to train Maul before he killed Plagueis, but . . . who knows?

Asajj wasn't Dooku's apprentice, she was not being trained in the Sith Arts, as Maul was from the beginning.
My theory is that Anakin's Father was really *drum rolls*
Jabba the Hutt while they were both drunk at a Cantina! Prove me wrong!

The point, doesn't matter and we will never know, as nothing can be proven right or wrong, unless the new Darth Plagueis Novels say so, but that doesn't seem like a creative way to have Anakin in my opinion.

If we're all going by how sincere Palpatine was to Anakin, then he lied.

"Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep."

If Palpatine was Plagueis's apprentice the he should already know how to create life. But if him saying to Anakin:

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I'm sure we can discover the secret."

If that's true, then he lied to Anakin before. Ruling out Palpatine's part in Anakin's creation. And if he was being as sincere as he's being made out to be, then it would rule him out as Plagueis's apprentice altogether.

But if he really is his apprentice, then he was simply using the creating life and stopping death line as a way to hook Anakin's interest in the Dark Side, which is what happened.

But I'm no scholar on CW and Plagueis paraphanalia, so if something in the books contradicts this, then woops.

I agree that Jabba was his father. And if not him, than Lando is another likely candidate. I mean, you can tell from reading the jedi Academy series that he's a pimp.

^Hahaha. No, I think Lobot is a more likely candidate!!! No women would be able to resist his bald head...

Plagueis created a life - that is clearly stated by Palpatine.

A life created this way would have been born of the force. Correct

IN being born this way it would appear to be a vergence (if that was the term Mace Windu used). THis is Anakin

Again - we have NO PROOF that Maul was a lord of the sith at 4 years of age. I would have to say that you have to be pretty bloody good to have the title of DARK LORD OF THE SITH. And at 4 Maul had barely begun his apprenticeship. Not that we have any proof that he wasn't but basing your argument thus makes no sense. No what makes sense is that Maul was trained and raised that way from birth yes. But until Sidious killed Plagueis, did not become a lord of the sith. Otherwise ask yourself this Is Sidious the type to have a 10 year old as his weapon/enforcer. That does not add up. Sidious was a little more crafty than that

The databank enty for Assajj states Personal Protege.

Now the rule of two is that there is ALWAYS two. THerefore, when Sidious killed Plagueis, Maul became Darth Maul. But, Maul had to be ready to take on that title. Sidious would not have risked the future of the Sith on the shoulders of a 4 year old.

This was a mission and plan 1000 years in the making. Sidious was playing the end game. No way he would have made such a move until Maul was ready to go. I may not be sure about everyone else who has read this thread, but I would say a damn lot of them would have difficulty in believing 4 year old Maul would be good enough to kill Qui GOn at this age.

My guess would be you would have to good enough to kill a jedi master to get the title Dark Lord of the Sith. Sidious was not the type to easily give power to anyone unproved.

Originally posted by Tangible God
If we're all going by how sincere Palpatine was to Anakin, then he lied.

"Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep."

If Palpatine was Plagueis's apprentice the he should already know how to create life. But if him saying to Anakin:

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I'm sure we can discover the secret."

If that's true, then he lied to Anakin before. Ruling out Palpatine's part in Anakin's creation. And if he was being as sincere as he's being made out to be, then it would rule him out as Plagueis's apprentice altogether.

But if he really is his apprentice, then he was simply using the creating life and stopping death line as a way to hook Anakin's interest in the Dark Side, which is what happened.

But I'm no scholar on CW and Plagueis paraphanalia, so if something in the books contradicts this, then woops.


just because sidious was taught everything didn't mean he used it. only one had: Plageuis

Originally posted by UltimateStryfe
just because sidious was taught everything didn't mean he used it. only one had: Plageuis If he was taught everything, why did he say he didn't know the secret of how to do it?

Originally posted by Rampant ox
^Hahaha. No, I think Lobot is a more likely candidate!!! No women would be able to resist his bald head...

Lol, hes an android!

Hell no. Cyborg.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/lobot/

Human with mechanical parts.

Actually I lie,

Palpatine and Shmi had a love shack at LV426 where they would meet for trysts. However, one night Palps got cut off in transit and Capt Kirk boldly went where the hand of man had never set foot.

Therefore, wicket is Anakins father

Sorry, I got digression sickness for a moment there

ya, Lobot's got the brain implant that allows him to talk to the computer. that's why he never talks with his voice, he's to busy talking to the mainframe.

anyway, i think Shmi was a former slave girl of Jabba's........

But seriously,

Anakin was created by the force. Plaguies could compel the force to do so. this is fact

Fact - we do not know when Sidious replaced Plagueis as Master

Originally posted by Archangelysses
But seriously,

Anakin was created by the force. Plaguies could compel the force to do so. this is fact

Fact - we do not know when Sidious replaced Plagueis as Master


Fact is that we have no proof Plagueis could actualy create life or stop people from dieing. All we have to go on is the word of a great liar. I believe he told Anakin help confuse him and to trick him into joining him. Fact is Anakin's mom was a slave. As we know as a slave it is likely that her former master's passed her around among some of his or her's friends. She could have been raped several times. Naturaly she would not want to admit it or believe that a child as as kind as her son could be born of such violence. So she just said there was no father. Or they drugged her up so much that she forgot all about the incidents.

There could have been many other explanations. Fact of the matter is we will never know the truth.

We know that Sidious is a Master manipulator but could you actually show proof of lying.

We have Sidious stating that Plagueis was able to influence the midi chlorians to create life. Would Sidious lie about this, Maybe, for what possible reason. Would have been more of a fashionable lie to talk about cheating death, not creating life.

Sidious's whole office was a declaration of Sith Power with staturary and tapestries and bas relief sculptures depicting the Jedi/Sith war involving one Mr. Darth Bane. Would Sidious overly state his Master's Ability, Maybe. Quite Possible that he is telling the truth though. THis is the Sith who brought about the Endgame, who took control of the galaxy and got revenge, So his Master would have to be something special to have trained up Sidious.

If not Plagueis that created Anakin, it could only then be Sidious that performed the feat.

THat many Midi CHlorians in one person, could not have been random chance.

Originally posted by Archangelysses
We know that Sidious is a Master manipulator but could you actually show proof of lying.

We have Sidious stating that Plagueis was able to influence the midi chlorians to create life. Would Sidious lie about this, Maybe, for what possible reason. Would have been more of a fashionable lie to talk about cheating death, not creating life.

Sidious's whole office was a declaration of Sith Power with staturary and tapestries and bas relief sculptures depicting the Jedi/Sith war involving one Mr. Darth Bane. Would Sidious overly state his Master's Ability, Maybe. Quite Possible that he is telling the truth though. THis is the Sith who brought about the Endgame, who took control of the galaxy and got revenge, So his Master would have to be something special to have trained up Sidious.

If not Plagueis that created Anakin, it could only then be Sidious that performed the feat.

THat many Midi CHlorians in one person, could not have been random chance.

It is possible that Anakin always wondered about who his father was. I am sure by ROTS that he knew he had no father. So palpatine told him this to get his attention.

Another possible reason is that Palpatine was trying to show Anakin that the jedi do not know everything and was trying to create distrust between anakin and the jedi. Also if you notice in those lines, he mentions being able to save the ones you love from dieing or something like that. But he needed to start the story out about creating life to get Anakin interested. All stories, lies or truth must have a beginning and an end. I for one believe he was lieing.

Also I would like to say something about what Palpatine said to Anakin in TMP. He had no doubt heard about Anakin before arriving there. So knowing what he knew he said that to Anakin. It no way proves he knew about Anakin being on Tatooine.

I agree that Sidious had no knowledge of Anakin on Tatooine.

But considering the way that we have had the force described/written about by GL, and the way that Sidious refers in both the OT and PT that everything is going as planned/as foreseen. Then my argument is that Palpatine/Sidious was aware of which Sith Lord would be his ultimate Apprentice. Also that he had seen that this child would be found by Qui-Gon Jinn.

I do however believe that Plagueis created Anakin in the belief that Anakin would become his Apprentice. As even Sidious states that Anakin would be more powerful than him.

Therefore, Plagueis learns/discovers said power, creates Anakin to bring about the end game, but then gets shivved in his sleep by ungrateful current apprentice. Betrayal is the way of the sith after all.

All of this is opinion and speculation, that will prolly never be proved.


if he forsaw Anakin's birth then he wouldnt have wasted his time with Maul, and just gone after the child as a infant, the whole time he was training maul he was just biding his time, he could have done that without an apprentince, and just trained anakin from birth, IF things are how you say. I also agree that he was was lying. Just another ruse, to sow more distrust amongst him and the ones who were closest to him. The sith lie, sidious lies, all Sith have lied one way or another to get what they want. he lied to Count Dooku, he double crossed the Nemodians twice along witht he rest of the serpeartists using Dooku as a mask, he also lied to those in the senate who wanted democracy and a peaceful solution to the war, the list goes on......

and Tangible pretty much sum it up in a nut shell, Sidious at the time didnt know how to cheat death, i don think he ever knew either, because his cloning shit wasnt getting the job done either.

Palpatine displaced Plagueis with his murder. Vader: The Ultimate Guide and The New Essential Chronology provide 43 BBY as the year of Plagueis' death. Anakin was born the following year.

Originally posted by Captain REX
Palpatine displaced Plagueis with his murder. Vader: The Ultimate Guide and The New Essential Chronology provide 43 BBY as the year of Plagueis' death. Anakin was born the following year.


Still does not mean anything. He was born the following year. Does not tell how long ago it was into the next year. As we know it usualy take 9 months to give birth.

Also if Plagueis did create Anakin. Then I can only think of one way for him to do so. He screwed Anakin's mom and then used the force to make her forget it ever happened. 9 months later and out pops baby anakin. lol

On another Note. Palpatine often claimed to see the future. But in reality I think he could only see so far. Also remember the future is always in motion. He might have started to see things around the time of TPM but not much more before that and it is possible he saw an immage of Anakin but I doubt he knew his location. Obviously by the time of ANH he was seeing it less. He had no idea the death star would be destroyed. Or maybe be forsaw it and that is why a second one was almost ready so fast. lol.

In ESB he informs vader of Luke, but Vader already knows this. The opening words at the beginning prove this.

In ROTJ he knew the Rebals were landing but failed to know that Luke was also on board. He was surprised when Vader said he felt his presence. Then he did not forsee the destruction of the second death star with him onboard.

Seems to me, he can not see into the future very far. lol

Let's take a second on this,

Palpatine could see clearly into the future for the dark side was shrouding everything. Yoda says as much in AOTC. Therefore, the Jedi were being screwed by the dark side.

Come to the time of New Hope and Jedi, and Palpatine is then having the same problem, as the force is about to rectify itself, the time of the prophecy is drawing near. Possible that one cannot see one's own death

If it was so clear. Then why could he not see that far ahead from the time of the prequals.

The same that the Jedi never saw the creation of the clone army that had been going for 10 years.

He did not realise that he was blinded in that area

Lol when i was younger i thot darth maul was his father.

you arent the only one i though darth maul was his father

Originally posted by Tangible God
If we're all going by how sincere Palpatine was to Anakin, then he lied.

"Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep."

If Palpatine was Plagueis's apprentice the he should already know how to create life. But if him saying to Anakin:

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I'm sure we can discover the secret."

If that's true, then he lied to Anakin before. Ruling out Palpatine's part in Anakin's creation. And if he was being as sincere as he's being made out to be, then it would rule him out as Plagueis's apprentice altogether.

But if he really is his apprentice, then he was simply using the creating life and stopping death line as a way to hook Anakin's interest in the Dark Side, which is what happened.

But I'm no scholar on CW and Plagueis paraphanalia, so if something in the books contradicts this, then woops.

Actually that COULD be untrue. Because if you think about it, Sidious by even by ROTS could be a clone already. We have no evidence of when his first body died. Also, he stated that Plagueis created life, but when he says "to cheat death is a power only one has achieved", he could be referring to himself, as he is possibly a clone.

Originally posted by Captain REX
We don't know if Plagueis actually did or not. The New Essential Chronology of Star Wars states that it is unknown if Plagueis performed it before Palpatine murdered him. But Palpatine murdered him because he saw Anakin as a future replacement.

We'll have to wait for the Plagueis novel. Darth Plagueis is my father.

Originally posted by Archangelysses
We know that Sidious is a Master manipulator but could you actually show proof of lying.

We have Sidious stating that Plagueis was able to influence the midi chlorians to create life. Would Sidious lie about this, Maybe, for what possible reason. Would have been more of a fashionable lie to talk about cheating death, not creating life.

Sidious's whole office was a declaration of Sith Power with staturary and tapestries and bas relief sculptures depicting the Jedi/Sith war involving one Mr. Darth Bane. Would Sidious overly state his Master's Ability, Maybe. Quite Possible that he is telling the truth though. THis is the Sith who brought about the Endgame, who took control of the galaxy and got revenge, So his Master would have to be something special to have trained up Sidious.

If not Plagueis that created Anakin, it could only then be Sidious that performed the feat.

THat many Midi CHlorians in one person, could not have been random chance.

proof of lying, eh. at the end of ROTS, darth vader is "born" (put in the suit) and palp' says that he killed her with force choke, when we all know he didn't.

he talked about cheating death because he knew that anakin wanted to save someone, padme. so he would have talked about cheating death to get his interest and manipulate him more.

his master wouldn't have to be smart, just teach his apprentice well. palp' would have been able to learn fighting styles after he killed his master. it was palp' who thought of the plan to own the galaxy and jedi, and succeded.

no, there isn't any evidence to suggest that he could create life, just cheats death and stop people dying. even if he could, why would the sith make thier undoing. even if they did create anakin, ani' trusted qui-gon more than palp' and thier was no way of seeing if and when QGJ would die, so if he wasn't killed then he proberly wouldn't have joined the sith and destroyed them.

i know thier wasn't a random chance of it happening because it was an ancient prophecy.

The ability to see the Future is a POSSIBLE future, Palpatine probably thought that Luke would turn to the Dark Side, and then everything would be good. Anakin's "father" shouldn't be revealed, just like the Force shouldn't have been "revealed"(midichloriens)

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually that COULD be untrue. Because if you think about it, Sidious by even by ROTS could be a clone already. We have no evidence of when his first body died. Also, he stated that Plagueis created life, but when he says "to cheat death is a power only one has achieved", he could be referring to himself, as he is possibly a clone.

Actually Leland Chee, the guy who maintains the Star Wars "Holocron continuity database" has said that Palpatine's first death was in fact aboard the Death Star II when Vader killed him. So ROTS Sidious is the original Sidious. He doesn't start to clone himself until after his "death" in ROTJ.

More to the point though I don't like the idea that someone "Created" Anakin, he was the chosen one, by the force. Being created by someone takes away most of the point of being a "chosen one". Plus the time line doesn't add up for Plagueis to have created him. So I doubt it.

Darth Plagueis is murdered by his apprentice Darth Sidious in 43 BBY
Anakin Skywalker is born in 42 BBY. 9 months gestation time would pretty much hit the nail on the head for my liking.
Source: From Vader the Ultimate Guide and the New Essential Chronology.

Plagueis could influence the midi-chlorians to create life. The midi-chlorians created Anakin. MIDI CHLORIANS were introduced for a purpose, not because Lucas just thought is sounded cool. Plagueis knew his enemy the Jedi. He had been trained by his Master in deception and so of from Darth Bane down to him. He would have been just as aware of the Prophecy as the Jedi were.

Plagueis has Sidious and is training him. No Dark Lord of the Sith would willingly step down from Master. They are replaced by Regicide (Kill the King). Plagueis has the plan to bring about the Chosen One. Knowing how the Jedi will react. We know the Midi-chlorians created Anakin. But there had to be something to trigger it. Plagueis.

He performs the feat out in the Outer Rim. To make sure that Anakin is not found until the time is right. (Qui Gon states this to Shmi by saying if he was in the Republic he would have been identified early). Both Plagueis and Sidious would know that the Chosen One (Anakin) would be more powerful than them as a Sith Lord. Therefore Sidious would know Anakin as a threat as long as Plagueis was around.

Like Tyranus had a pupil in Assajj Ventress. Sidious had a pupil in Maul. When Sidious then murdered Plagueis and took the title of Master, Maul would then have risen to the place of Apprentice.

We also know that both Sidious and Yoda were the only two force users strong enough to glimpse the future enough to read it. Though we know in later years that Jedi became blinded to it. Even Yoda.

I have a strong belief in the logic of this statement.

What would clarify this futher is one or two simple answers

When did Dooku become Tyranus
When did Dooku first meet Palpatine - how much influence and time did it take from first meeting to apprenticeship.
Tyranus stepped into the breach after Maul, but how long after, a year, a month, a day, or even before death.

Maul was not as skilled in the force, nor as devious/scheming as either Sidious, Plagueis, Bane or Tyranus.

It is my belief, and honest opinion in linking these facts to say that Sidious had seen enough of the future to know of the possible outcomes of Anakin's life and that he could become Lord Vader. If not seen it, then he knew enough that Anakin would be stronger. Therefore he knew Maul to be expendable and not the successor to his reign. If he saw Tyranus???

Now we also know that Sidious' scheme was set in motion prior to TPM, that there was a lot of politicking and movements prior to that movie. Therefore how much of the outcome was planned from the start. How much was adapted as it went along. From viewing the entire thing from start to finish, is so machiavellian and so massive in scope - yet simple at heart that it is the most masterful chess game yet, in that he anticipated the exact moves his opponents would make so that he was always two steps ahead of them.

Plagieus was anakin's Father. The sith knew about the prophecy, and the fact that the chosen one would destroy them, but before that, he would make them infinitely stronger. Palpatine thought himself strong enough in the Force to prevent the prophecy from coming true. obviously, he was wrong and all the sith were destroyed at the end of ROTJ.

The "prophecy" as much as we know of it, stated that there would be a vergence of the force, that this would create a chosen one to bring balance to the force.

The Sith would have known all about this prophecy and would have prepared to make sure that the chosen one would rise up as a Sith Lord.

However, aside from that, there had to be a catalyst to create the vergence.

As stated by the Merovingian, there is only one absolute: Causality.

Cause and Effect.

Plaguies caused the vergence

Anakin was the Effect of that.

Pure and Simple

yeah but that doesnt mean anything. dooku, for example, had an apprentice, (ventress) but at the same time, he was sidious' apprentice

Originally posted by Darth Volter
yeah but that doesnt mean anything. dooku, for example, had an apprentice, (ventress) but at the same time, he was sidious' apprentice huh?

at first wen i was younger i thought it was darth maul lol since i knew about vader and luke

Actually, all of us here thought of that. Long ago.

Yeah I think the reason he was staring at Anakin had more to do with enticing Anakin to use them to save Padme, not that Anakin was a product of Plageuis' experiment (although that could still be true).

I think I remember an interview with GL a while after ep.1 in which he said he didnt really know what he was thinking putting midiclorians in the story.

Heh.

I still think that it was an act of the Force rather than a manipulation by the Sith. I hope that nobody proves me wrong with future books...

Plageuis would have to be Anakins father because he supposedly "created" Anakin which would have to happen coming from pure force, right?? So then he would have a high midichlorian count, which after a blood sample, Obi Wan told Qwi Gon that he had the highest midichlorian ever by a Jedi, even higher than Yoda himself

That was hard to read.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I crack everyone up.

It's my talent. nice therory

Ok. so you are saying that Anakin was a supernatural experiment of the force, right? Well, what does that make his mother? What role does she play and how did she get into this???

What about the prophecy Yoda and Obi Wan kept referring to when questioning if Anakin was the chosen one to restore order to the force? Was it supposed to be Luke Skywalker? Where did this "prophecy" come from?

Originally posted by dbelton
Was it supposed to be Luke Skywalker?

No, George Lucas has stated multiple times that Anakin (not Luke) is the chosen one.

If Anakin was supposed to be the prophesied one to restore order and balance to the force, then after the disappointment, why did Yoda say, "No. there is another"?

It can be argued in my opinion that Darth Plagueis created Anakin to bridge the gap between the raw power of the Force. The prophecy of the Chosen One could also be the Sith'ari and both sides (Jedi and Sith) misinterpreted the meaning. When Anakin was born he might have been a fail safe that Palpatine never saw coming until TPM. Palpatine recogized the boy's potential to usurp him and wanted a dynasty. Anakin could have killed him later in life, but Palp would have the ability to survive (in theory). We don't know if Palpatine knew the power. In the end Darth Plagueis killed his own apprentice using his creation: Anakin.

Originally posted by dbelton
If Anakin was supposed to be the prophesied one to restore order and balance to the force, then after the disappointment, why did Yoda say, "No. there is another"? There is another "hope", not Chosen One. Another hope to defeat/redeem Vader.

But Yoda himself opined that the prophecy "misread, may have been." Frankly, his in-universe, limited perspective isn't going to help too much.

Originally posted by dbelton
Ok. so you are saying that Anakin was a supernatural experiment of the force, right? Well, what does that make his mother? What role does she play and how did she get into this???

Maybe his mother was like a surrogate, or maybe they used her actual DNA?

Originally posted by dbelton
If Anakin was supposed to be the prophesied one to restore order and balance to the force, then after the disappointment, why did Yoda say, "No. there is another"?

*Triple Facepalm*

so what are you saying that sidous's master created a child with a slave women?Why would a sith lord choose a slave out of anyone else?

Inconspicuous. Very, very inconspicuous.

His father was the force. This is clear.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
There is another "hope", not Chosen One. Another hope to defeat/redeem Vader.

Yep. Starkiller.

if starkiller ever is changed to be the father,that would have to be the most random awesome ret-con ever.

Oh that would be so stupid. Yet so cool.

oh it would destroy star wars as we know it. forever. but it would be so funny.

If GL & Friends ever do decide to say "F*ck it" on canon, I hope it's with something like that.

There are so many great theories here. I love how Star Wars makes you think.

My OPINION based on what I have seen in the movies is that Darth Plagueis indeed created Anakin. In manipulating midi-chlorians to create life, you don't really have your "hands" in the mother's womb. Like any other symbiont being once a host is found it stays. So, once the the manipulation was complete all you need is a host. Anyone woman at this point would do; who better than an unsuspecting slave.
Now on to the prophecy. (again my OPINION) Sounds a bit a though the prophecy was misread as Master Yoda suggested. Think of a math equation. To balance an equation what is on one side must also be on the other. I did a little research and according to other Star Wars novels there was a time when there were more than 2 Sith. This didn't occur until Darth Bane arrived. Therefore, 2 Sith on the dark side and hundreds of Jedi on the light side is unbalanced. After Anakin turned to the dark side, order 66 was executed, and Darth Vader hunted down the surviving Jedi; the force WAS balanced.
Darth Sidious + Darth Vader = Master Yoda + Master Kenobi (2=2) simple math.
I would certainly love to hear anyone's thoughts on the matter.

Signed ~ A lover of great stories

Originally posted by Generic Hero
Dude. There can only be 2 Sith.

Maul was Palpatine's apprentice since infancy. Let's say 4 years old.

Which means Plagueis was last alive 18 years before TPM. Let's say he creates Anakin right before he died.

Anakin was born 10 years before TPM.

It doesn't work, unless he spent some 8 years in his momma's tummy. mual had been given to palpatiene because his mother did not want him to become a nightbrother and then after a year Sidious was granted permission from his own Master to train Maul as an apprentice. But in order to avoid breaking the Rule of Two, Sidious was only allowed to train the young Dathomirian as a weapon; he was never trained to be a true Sith Lord in the same way as Plagueis and Sidious.

Ok, i dont know if anyone here has read the Darth Plagueis novel, but i have.

DarthGalbatorix said:


this is all true, except that plagues didnt care much for the rule of two


JuicyJ said:


In the novel it doesnt mention Plagueis creating Anakin, so not sure if he did or not, but i would think they would mention it if he did. But what is for sure is that Palpatine didnt know about Anakin until after Qui Gon Jinn found him.

As for the prophecy, i totally agree with you, i have always thought that anakin was really the one to bring balance to the force by killing most of the jedi, although kenobi and yoda are the only 2 yedi we know for sure that ended up being alive, but there could have been more out there, but it can still be balanced even if its not the same amount of jedi and sith IMO

i personally think it was darth maul who was anakins father i no alot of people would disagree but if u watch the first and third darth maul was a jedi before he became a sith and he was well trained like anakin anakins father was unknown and he was gone his whole life and his mom didnt wanna say what happened because he turned to the dark side but the reason wouldnt be known if you ever played force unleashed darth maul is metioned as his passed apprentice and you play his training ground

Hahaha, Darth Galbatorix is an awesome name.

anakin was sold to the huts on tatoine when he was 3 but who sold them

Count Dooku is Anakin's father. The Force brought him on Tatooine to express its will upon Shmi Skywalker in creating the Chosen One.

The best part about that statement is, knowing you, I have no clue if you're joking or not.

https://youtu.be/MfB1VdNWtEU

Humor needs to have some basis nadd. You can't just make nonsenical statements and expect it to, refrigerator.

Actually I do. The way how the PT is designed(Anakin and Luke's main fights mirror each other)

And Shmi also says she doesn't remember Anakin to have a father=mindtrick

Okay, riddle me this, Nadd. Do you really believe that Dooku's son, with ANY woman, much less Shmi, would have turned out the way Anakin did?

Me doesn't get it.

exactly