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FIGHT!!!!

I'm not going to yell at you because I understand you're a n00bie. Obi wan cannot and will not ever beat Mace.

Mace should be able to easily defeat him, though Obi-Wan is at an advantage with his form and would likely be able to hang in there for a while.

Mace-frigging-Windu. I think this has been done before, too.

Mace in a relatively close fight.

obi-wan will make a vey long duel because of his form. But after a while Mace is still going to win

I wouldn't say very long, but slightly long. For instance, I think he would dispose of Anakin far quicker.

I believe mace could beat Oafy Wan with rather ease.

I believe that mace Windu is far more powerful then Obi-Wan, however Obi-Wan is at an advantage when you consider forms. Soresu is the perfect counter against Vaapad, and i think that it would take a while for Windu to break through his defences. Precision was never Windu's strong point.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Precision was never Windu's strong point.

Yes. Really. He still had great precision, but when it came down to it, he was no Count Dooku or Sidious (in precision).

his shatterpoint ability? He blew up a gunship with grenades. he has precision.

I'm talking about basic dueling precision. Not precision in the force or in other fields. A saber duel is a situation, but situations are fluid, ephemeral, appearing for a bare instant, vanishing again to leave no trace of their existence. He can't just use his shatterpoint ability to determine the precise area where he would just thrust his saber in order to guarantee a win. I think I've now proven how his shatterpoint ability does not grant him exceptional precision in saber duels. I mean if his shatterpoint ability were that great, he would be unstoppable. However I stand by what I said earlier, he still does posses great precision in saber duels, but not that of Count Dooku or Darth Sidious. It really doesn't matter anyway, his style doesn't require or utilise great precision.

This thread had been done before. Dark Rendezvous states that Mace and Dooku are even, while a comment made by Lucas states that Mace is strong enough to compete with the Emperor while Sidious is not suggests that Mace > Dooku, and the OS says Mace is as strong as Yoda, who was just barely beating Dooku in AOTC. So Mace is at least as strong as Dooku, who tooled Obi-Wan while fighting Anakin. Now, I don't think Mace'd use offensive Force powers like Dooku did so, because of his Soresu Mastery, Obi-Wan would be able to hold Mace off for a while but in the end Mace's Vaapad Mastery would defeat Obi-Wan's Soresu.

Originally posted by darthsith19
This thread had been done before. Dark Rendezvous states that Mace and Dooku are even, while a comment made by Lucas states that Mace is strong enough to compete with the Emperor while Sidious is not suggests that Mace > Dooku, and the OS says Mace is as strong as Yoda, who was just barely beating Dooku in AOTC. So Mace is at least as strong as Dooku, who tooled Obi-Wan while fighting Anakin. Now, I don't think Mace'd use offensive Force powers like Dooku did so, because of his Soresu Mastery, Obi-Wan would be able to hold Mace off for a while but in the end Mace's Vaapad Mastery would defeat Obi-Wan's Soresu.

I agree with that except for your thoughts on Dooku. I feel that Mace and the Count are exact equals. It is staed in SW.com that the only people to defeat Mace are Dooku and Yoda. However it doesnt say that Mace has beaten Dooku. Also Dooku didnt look to worried when Mace had his lightsaber out in AOTC. One simple swipe and Dooku would have been dead, but Dooku was practically laughing at him. However these are just my thoughts and are completely irrelevant to the topic!!!

Mace beats Obi-Wan with relative ease. Mace and the Count are equals, and Dooku managed to eliminate Obi-Wan while fighting Anakin. Anakin wont be there in this fight so Mace can focus his full attention on destroying Obi-Wan. His shatterpoint ability gives him a huge advantage and the fact that he is second only to Yoda in the jedi order speaks for itself.

However you have to consider that Makashi is the perfect form against Soresu.

Soresu is made to counter forms, which focus on attack and trying to overwhelm their opponents such as Vaapad, Schien and Ataru by being able to fend off the deadliest of attacks and by tiring their opponent out and waiting for them to make a mistake and then capitalise on it.

Makashi however firstly uses minimal energy, which counters the tiring out factor of Soresu. Makashi is also bred for dueling, and focuses on precision and outdueling your opponent. However it requires extreme concentration which is why offensive overwhelming forms like Vaapad or Schien are very effective against Makashi as it makes it hard for the Makashi user to concentrate, however the passive nature of Soresu makes it easy for the Makashi user to concentrate and duel with the most precision and skill possible, which is almost impossible to defend against, even for a Soresu user.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
However you have to consider that Makashi is the perfect form against Soresu.

Soresu is made to counter forms, which focus on attack and trying to overwhelm their opponents such as Vaapad, Schien and Ataru by being able to fend off the deadliest of attacks and by tiring their opponent out and waiting for them to make a mistake and then capitalise on it.

Makashi however firstly uses minimal energy, which counters the tiring out factor of Soresu. Makashi is also bred for dueling, and focuses on precision and outdueling your opponent. However it requires extreme concentration which is why offensive overwhelming forms like Vaapad or Schien are very effective against Makashi as it makes it hard for the Makashi user to concentrate, however the passive nature of Soresu makes it easy for the Makashi user to concentrate and duel with the most precision and skill possible, which is almost impossible to defend against, even for a Soresu user.

Hmmmm. Nice post, I must agree with everything said. However this still doesnt mean Mace will lose to Obi-Wan. there is too much evidence to prove that Mace is better.

Oh yeah totally, if I ever made it seem like I thought Obi-Wan might win, my belief is that he definitely loses here. Mace is just far more powerful and deadly. The best Obi-Wan can do is delay the outcome of the fight for as long as possible. The nature of Soresu and his incredibly mastery of it should ensure that.

A quick question. Do you guys think that, during ROTS, Obi Wan's power grew? I mean, in the beginning he was chucked by Dooku and at the end he beat down Anakin-Vader. I realize that Obi Wan had every advantage over Anakin, but, still...

Anyway, Soresu has a natural advantage over Vaapad, and, with Obi Wan's mastery of the form, I doubt that Mace would find a shatterpoint easily if at all. For Mace to try to find one he might try some stupid attacks and that would be Obi Wan's opportunity to strike. Anyway, Mace would probably win, but, I doubt that it would be a short or un-entertaining fight.

Hmmm well I don't think that Obi-Wan evolved very much, since ROTS is in a week I think. But he might have gotten some experience since he fought 2 sith/swordsmen and such. But, I think that in the end, where he knew the Galaxy hung upon his shoulders, and that it was his old padawan he fought, he got a power boost for that time. I mean, common, since when could Obi stalemate Anakin in a force duel?

Indeed. Hey Kamiks, what do you think about my thread in the Lit section?

Yes, Dooku beat Mace once prior to TPM when Mace hadn't finished creating Vaapad yet. By ROTS things have changed.

Yes, because he knew that eitehr way Mace was screwed. He knew Mace wouldn't kill him since they used to be friend's and if Mace did kill him that was end Mace's life, as well. He knew Mace wasn't willing to sacrifice himself to kill Dooku.

Yes, it does seem like he got faster over the course of the movie. He was fighting so much faster at the end that at the beginning. But in this battle that small increase in speed doesn't make a difference.

Mace would win...

But Obi would last for a lil while

Dooku was toying with them because sidious ordered him to. He tossed Obi wan around to try and lure anakin it was successful. Anakin surprised Dooku with his anger, which dooku did not expect him to have.

He was using soresu at the beginning and he used ataru at the end of the movie.