Revan vs. Anakin

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Darth Sexy
From what I understand, Revan was also described as the chosen one, so ths would be quite the fight.. Of course I could be mistaken about Revan, but after reading a lot on him and playing KOTOR 50 times, it is almost pretty obvious. Anyways, the battle is in the Valley of the Sith Lords on Korriban.

jollyjim311
This has been done already. Revan has no distinguishable level of power and has done nothing that would be above Anakin. Anakin wins.

Darth Sexy
Really? Perhaps you should play KOTOR...I would highly doubt anyone on this forum or anyone with basic SW knowledge would put Anakin above Revan.. Revan showed tremendous power in the game and in the storyline. You might have forgotten how he defeated a star forge powered Malak. Anyways I don't consider Revan as the best of the best but it points to the fact that he is the chosen one or one of them and is definitely above Anakin, who showed very little.

jollyjim311
Anakin showed very little?!
Killed Dooku
Defeated Asajj
Defeated/killed Durge
Here are a few links showing some force powers that I used in a few other debates:

Makes two droids shoot each other.
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=5&f=52&name=Clone_Wars_-_The_New_Face_Of_War_Part_2_of_2

Shoots scraps of metal at Durge like bullets.
http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=20&f=29&name=Obsession_2_of_5

Tosses explosives at Durge.
http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=8&f=30&name=Obsession_3_of_5

Smacks Durge around with the force.
http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=14&f=30&name=Obsession_3_of_5

Guides a shuttle (of course, containing Durge, poor Durge ) into a star
http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=15&f=30&name=Obsession_3_of_5

The energy from him and Obi sparring lifts up debris. http://www.swcomics.com/Republic_Era_c.php?i=5&f=31&name=Obsession_4_of_5

Helps rip through a metal wall in his Padawan days.
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=34&f=50&name=Clone_Wars_-_The_Defense_of_Kamino
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=35&f=50&name=Clone_Wars_-_The_Defense_of_Kamino

Throws some random crap around along with Asajj
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=19&f=71&name=Clone_Wars_-_Dreadnaughts_of_Rendili_Part_3_of_3

Ties up Asajj with the force using wires and crushes her.
http://www.swcomics.com/republic_c.php?i=20&f=71&name=Clone_Wars_-_Dreadnaughts_of_Rendili_Part_3_of_3

And he crushed a room full of medical supplies immediately after he got his suit and had any Sith training, so it's safe to assume that Anakin could do that too.
I'm sure there are more, but I think I've proved my point.

Oh yeah, and I have played KOTOR. You cansneak by almost everyone or just have your party do most of the fighting. We have hardly any canon specifics.

Darth Sexy
I am not going to play feat wars with you, but it is common knowledge that Revan showed far more impressive force abilities, AND lightsaber Mastery, than Anakin ever did. Regardless of what you think is canon, Revan DID defeat hundreds of dark jedi and sith apprentices, whether by himself or not, and defeated a star forge powered Malak(which I highly doubt Anakin could do). In fact it's a lot more obvious to some(including me) that Revan's task/tasks indeed showed him to be the chosen one.

jollyjim311
Okay, a few things. These aren't "Feat Wars," they are legitimate to argue about in a debate. If I had said something like Sidious could beat the Entire Jedi council because he managed to take control of the entire galaxy, then you could complain. Also, name what puts Revan over Anakin in both dueling and the force. I posted a few links as to his force prowess, and, he was able to defeat Dooku. More lightsaber and foce skills than you can prove for Revan right there. Another thing: Canon isn't how you interpret something, it's what happened, factually. You could name a bunch of in-game feats that Revan performed and I could say that, due to Revan's light-side nature, he just sneaked by the enemy. Lastly, Anakin is The Chosen One. I made that bold in case you weren't sure what the key word was.

Darth Sexy
First off, you speak of Anakin's prophecy as potential. Do you need reminding that he didn't come close to reaching his potential? Secondly, it can be argued that Revan was also the Chosen one..I'm certainly up for that debate. Thirdly, regardless of gameplay feats or what not, the storyline goes with Revan defeating the dark Jedi, and then Malak, who was powered by the star forge and the dead Jedi. I'm pretty sure Malak is often compared to Dooku on these forums. Oh, not to mention Revan was described as a lightsaber prodigy and a master swordsman, while Anakin...Wasn't.. And yes he beat Dooku, and lost to Obiwan.. So what was your point exactly?

darthsith19
Revan wins. As far as I know Anakin doesn't have any way to block Revan's Force Storm Lightning. Revan was the strongest Jedi of his era, and, as Traya said ""Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."" sounds like she respected him and his power and she herself is extremely powerful. Anakin's good, but not enough. He goes down.

Darth Sexy
I wouldn't consider wikipedia a canon source but it did state that it was believed that Revan AND/OR Anakin were the chosen ones. It makes sense if you think about it..

jollyjim311
Okay. The title is "The Chosen One" (as in, the number One (1)). Not the chosen few. There is one of them. George Lucas says that that One (1, understood?) is Anakin. But thanks for sending red flags a-flyin' that you're a Revan fanboy.

Darth Sexy
Ah the fanboy name calling. Way to concede your poor argument. Neo was also "The One" too right? Oh wait... There were 7 of them. I don't remember Lucas stating that there was only one "The One", but again great argument, no really.

jollyjim311
Oh yeah, foolish me, the SW Universe is filled with people born of the force that are made to destroy the Sith. Must have slipped my mind...

darthsith19
Only one in Star Wars, and it sure as hell was Anakin, not Revan. Yes, Revan would beat ROTS Anakin (I'm assuming this is ROTS Anakin, right?) but Revan is NOT the Chosen One.

Darth Sexy
I'm not saying he is, I'm just suggesting that it's a possibility according to some sources, and his missions as a reborn Jedi.. He sure seemed like the Chosen one. Regardless his power is beyond Anakin.

jollyjim311
Look, Revan can't be good just because you want him to be. You need to back up your argument, no matter who you are, and, I've shown a few links. All you have is that he beat Malak (we don't know his power, either), and, had lightning that came from the sky (it could have been lasers, the Raktan were primitive, if I remember correctly). I look forward to a rebuttal with facts in the morning, good night.

Generic Hero
Revan isn't the Chosen One, he wasn't born of the force like Anakin was. He didn't destroy the last real Sith.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Look, Revan can't be good just because you want him to be. You need to back up your argument, no matter who you are, and, I've shown a few links. All you have is that he beat Malak (we don't know his power, either), and, had lightning that came from the sky (it could have been lasers, the Raktan were primitive, if I remember correctly). I look forward to a rebuttal with facts in the morning, good night.


Actually we know Malak is powered by the star forge because he says it. We also know Malak was powered by all those dead Jedi. And for the last time that lightning was indeed force lightning, stop trying to downplay it.

Generic Hero
I used mines. Who else used mines?

Escape81
George Lucas, creator of Star Wars and supreme authority on Star Wars has plainly stated that Anakin is the Chosen One. Revan is not, in any way, the Chosen One.

Also considering how the presence of the Sith is around in Kotor II, I don't see how he can be considered a Chosen One when he didn't eradicate them all.

Concluding, on the subject of Neo. Neo was referred to as "The One", and yes - there were seven others - but they weren't alive when Neo was.

They were just seven versions of Neo from seven different versions of the Matrix.

Darth Sexy
I wasn't stating Revan was the chosen one persay, I was staying that it may very possibly look that way judging by what he had to do and how he went after the remnants of the old sith empire alone. The point is he is a lot more powerful than Anakin.

Escape81
I agree that Revan is above any PT Jedi or Sith (but that's my own opinion).

A lot more powerful? No. Sidious or Yoda (by the PT) would give him one hell of a fight.

Darth Sexy
Eh maybe they would give him a fight but yes he is above any PT Jedi or Sith.

zephiel7
Anakin would get tooled.

jollyjim311
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Look, Revan can't be good just because you want him to be. You need to back up your argument, no matter who you are, and, I've shown a few links. All you have is that he beat Malak (we don't know his power, either), and, had lightning that came from the sky (it could have been lasers, the Raktan were primitive, if I remember correctly). I look forward to a rebuttal with facts in the morning, good night.

Generic Hero
Well...

Revan beat Malak who was strongest in a Sith Order of thousands. Malak has shown us:
1) Use of competant force lightning
2) The ability to choke two Jedi at once
3) The saber ability to best Kavar, the leader of the Jedi Guardians.

Revan beat him on the Star Forge, where Malak clearly had the advantage with the extra lives. He's easily on Ani's level, at least.

jollyjim311
Well, Anakin is one of the most powerful in an order of 10 thousand, and beat Dooku, who:
1)Has force lightning also.
2) The ability to choke great Jedi such as Obi Wan and Quinlan Vos while using the force to take his lightsaber and gun away, casually. http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=195&page=36
3)The saber ability to beat Mace Windu, Asajj Ventress, General Greivous, Sora Bulq and many more.

Anakin beat him on his own ship when Dooku would have wanted to impress his master.

Darth Sexy
Revan beating someone who was powered by 8 Jedi and the star forge is a lot more impressive than someone who was arguably trying to seduce Anakin to the dark side but was betrayed by his master.

zephiel7
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Well, Anakin is one of the most powerful in an order of 10 thousand, and beat Dooku, who:
1)Has force lightning also.
2) The ability to choke great Jedi such as Obi Wan and Quinlan Vos while using the force to take his lightsaber and gun away, casually. http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=195&page=36
3)The saber ability to beat Mace Windu, Asajj Ventress, General Greivous, Sora Bulq and many more.

Anakin beat him on his own ship when Dooku would have wanted to impress his master.

Anakin defeating Dooku in a saber duel is inconclusive. For all we know, Dooku was testing Anakin's capabilities for Sidious. He was given those direct orders, and an apprentice does obey their master.

Do you think Sidious would order his apprentice to kill the Jedi with one of the most highest potentials? The battle was a test, so obviously Dooku was not trying his hardest. Even if the strongest combatant in the world were fighting a young upstart, if he wasn't out to damage him but test his potential, he would be leaving himself open to wide range of weak spots..

The ridiculous comments from the ROTS novelization does not support your points. You know this as well as I, the novelization is merely an author's interpretation on the subject. About as good as ours.

Secondly, Malak was stronger than Dooku when Revan defeated him. Why you ask?

His powers were amplified with the Star Forge. The darkside energies of an entire race empowered him, and he was described as being "unstoppable."

2. I suppose it is too hard to imagine that Revan would just resist Anakin's feeble attempts. You forget the knowledge bases Revan had over Anakin. Malachor 5, and the tombs on Korriban which still possessed buried holocrons. The Rakatans described him as slaughtering their ranks with his "magics" and summoning lightning to kill them. They were in awe of his power.


This is a side note, but about Mace's defeat

This is flat out untrue, as the two were described as being tied, until Dooku's droids interfered. Hardly what I call outdueled.

kamikz
It has already been debated over and over and over about the Anakin vs Dooku, and Anakin won. The mods even said so, and if you try to say against them then you go against the forums canon policy.

And Sidious sent out Assaj to kill Anakin, so much for being afraid he would die.... It was clear and had been said by Sidious himself that if Anakin failed he was not strong enough....

zephiel7
Originally posted by kamikz
It has already been debated over and over and over about the Anakin vs Dooku, and Anakin won. The mods even said so, and if you try to say against them then you go against the forums canon policy.

And Sidious sent out Assaj to kill Anakin, so much for being afraid he would die.... It was clear and had been said by Sidious himself that if Anakin failed he was not strong enough....

There is a difference between sending a well trained dark Jedi who was once a Jedi Master (with heaps of talent with the lightsaber and very strong connection to the force), and a bald six foot woman.

Again, I can'tunderstand why people would think Anakin actually defeated Dooku. Ignore the fact that Dooku tied Mace Windu, and also ignore the fact that earlier in AOTC Dooku WTFpwned the duo.

Subsequently, he WTFpwned Kenobi when the two Jedi were wailing on him. Noticed that he got Obi Wan out of the fight?

Why because his objective was to test Anakin, not Obi Wan. In light of these facts, people still hold that Dooku was actually intending to kill Anakin.

kamikz
This has already been debated, and those arguments have already been said and put down. Go check that thread (it's on the EU SW forum, and search for "Dooku's skill"wink. After that, I will probably never want to discuss another Dooku and Anakin fight in my life.

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by zephiel7
Anakin defeating Dooku in a saber duel is inconclusive. For all we know, Dooku was testing Anakin's capabilities for Sidious. He was given those direct orders, and an apprentice does obey their master.

Actually, it's conclusive.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
About the Anakin versus Dooku fight I've found:

"Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 41.

"In this particular case the idea is that Palpatine is testing Anakin to see if he is strong enough to become his new apprentice, and he doesn't tell Dooku what he's actually up to." -- Lucas, ROTS Commentary.

Among other things, but these were the two main things. Now, it's not as if I have access to the commentary or "The Making of ROTS", but if these are correct (and they've given sources so you people can check), and coupled with other various facts - then Anakin beat Dooku fair and square.

So, assuming these are correct, Anakin beats Dooku while Luke watches/is killed off by Dooku. Or after the fight, is killed by Anakin.



Well, considering there's a few more points to consider - the ROTS novelization > your "interpretation".



Yeah, tell me.



And you can amplify the powers behind the Star Forge somehow?



Seems the description was wrong, seeing as he was stopped.

zephiel7
It is an author's interpretation, not actual fact. The facts are :



Again I ask, how can people believe that Dooku was actually intending to kill Anakin? You are ignoring a hundred different variables from the very fact that Dooku knew that either way, he would not die. Anakin was fighting for his life. And yes, I was right, Dooku WAS testing Anakin. Orders from Sidious.



The Star Forge had two abilities. One was to create an infinite fleet, and the other was to amplify the powers of any dark Jedi powerful enough to use it. This is narrated by Malak himself as well as the computer in the Rakatan temple.

kamikz
GL himself stated, "Palpatine never told Dooku what was going on, he was only told to fight Anakin and Obi-Wan". There was no test mentioned in Lucas words. THis is the creator of Dooku, and the creator of Star Wars, ignore his words and your pretty off.....

Second, the novelization is said to be second to the films. It doesn't matter if you think that the author just thinks in a different way than you, that's the KMC policy, deal with it. And that book showed Dooku thinking "it was time to kill".

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by zephiel7
It is an author's interpretation, not actual fact. The facts are :


Actually, the facts are what I laid out in front of you. Perhaps you missed it? Lenses needs an adjusting, hm?




Because he was told to go all out on Anakin? Not hold back? No indication otherwise (other than Dooku fanboys that can't accept Anakin > Dooku)? Because in The Making of ROTS "if Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku"?

What happened btw? Anakin did what? He killed Dooku?

Yes, he killed Dooku fair and square. Disprove the quotes I gave you, or shut up.

The only problem with what Dooku thought was the fact the plan was suppose to be that Palpatine would save Dooku from dying, which was addressed on several occasions. On top of that, it gives explanation as to why Dooku looked at Palpatine like that before he became the Headless Horseman.



"Amplify the powers of any DJ..." - blah blah. How much does it amplify their powers by?

zephiel7
Originally posted by kamikz
GL himself stated, "Palpatine never told Dooku what was going on, he was only told to fight Anakin and Obi-Wan". There was no test mentioned in Lucas words. THis is the creator of Dooku, and the creator of Star Wars, ignore his words and your pretty off.....

Second, the novelization is said to be second to the films. It doesn't matter if you think that the author just thinks in a different way than you, that's the KMC policy, deal with it. And that book showed Dooku thinking "it was time to kill".

1. "Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

1. Care to dispute this from GL?


2. It is an interpretation, and should not be treated as having any worth especially when it is so illogical. Regardless of KMC regulations, it doesn't make the interpretation any more right.

Although a little extreme, that would the equivalent of saying, Hitler killing Jews is right, because that was Nazi German regulation and policy.

Darth Sexy
Who cares if Anakin was the chosen one. This is a versus battle and Revan CLEARLY and CONCLUSIVELY has shown to be superior to Anakin.

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by zephiel7
. Care to dispute this from GL?

You realize that quote is adding point to the fact Anakin > Dooku fairly? Isn't that what you are arguing against?

And Darth Sexy - WTF are you talking about? "Clearly and conclusively"? No.

Darth Sexy
What do you mean no? Explain to me how Anakin would defeat Revan in a versus match? Force abilities clearly go to Revan as Anakin never reached potentials. Revan was also a lightsaber prodigy in a more martial time. You want to argue that Anakin>Revan because he beat Dooku? I can counter your argument with Anakin getting pwned by Obiwan. And again, play KOTOR or at least read the storyline. Revan was the most powerful of his time, where there were more powerful Jedi/Sith. Anakin was what, behind Yoda, Mace, Sidious, Dooku, etc? Yea, Anakin iz theee ch0zen 0ne.

kamikz
Originally posted by zephiel7
1. "Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

1. Care to dispute this from GL?


2. It is an interpretation, and should not be treated as having any worth especially when it is so illogical. Regardless of KMC regulations, it doesn't make the interpretation any more right.

Although a little extreme, that would the equivalent of saying, Hitler killing Jews is right, because that was Nazi German regulation and policy.


Don't you see, there is nothing to suggest he held back. Palpatine said, "if he gets the better of you I'll stop the fight", apparently he got the better of him. He also said, "if you get the better of him we let him wait", apparently that never happened. THere is nothing to suggest he held back and the novelization supports this. Also, Lucas has said that Dooku was told to fight Anakin, not hold back because it was a test, but to fight Anakin. Even if it was a test he never said he would hold back because of that....


If you don't like the policy, don't come here, but that's the way it is.

Darth Sexy
oy..

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What do you mean no?

What do I mean? Isn't it simple enough for you to understand "NO".



What Force abilities does Revan have as a definite?



And Anakin somehow isn't a lightsaber prodigy? Beating someone with 70+ years of experience under their belt, someone who uses the lightsaber to lightsaber combat form, and has Darkside abilities as well when you've been training for what? 14 years? Damn, tell me that isn't a Lightsaber prodigy.

And more martial? In case you didn't know, Anakin was around during the Clone Wars.



Did I ever say that? Actually, did I ever voice my opinion that Anakin firmly is > Revan just because of him killing Dooku? No? Then don't put words in my mouth - thanks a bunch, hun.



"Getting pwned"? Do you need to rent ROTS from Blockbuster again or something?

Is that why Anakin gets the following attacks on the Soresu master:

1.) Kicks him square in the chest.
2.) Dragon Sleeper.
3.) Dropkick.
4.) Another kick.
5.) Knocks Kenobi around.
6.) Yet another kick dead in the face.

Actually, Anakin > Kenobi in lightsaber abilities. As much is obvious. Kenobi only did one thing: prolong the fight until the point that he got the terrain advantage (similar to the Sidious/Yoda fight). If it was even ground, Anakin would've killed Obi-Wan.



Played KOTOR. Played KOTOR 2. Own KOTOR. Own KOTOR 2. Read the storylines.

Seems I've done all that and still I disagree with you.



Like who? Darth Bandon?



Hm, considering Anakin is one of the only three said to be able to compete with Sidious, I don't think he's behind that far. And, also considering he beat Dooku fair and square - you can take him off the list.

Being the "Chosen One" has nothing to do with this. Yeah, Revan is "THE AWESOME VIDEO GAME CHARACTER!". I mean half his feats you could sneak through, not use Force powers, or a lightsaber for that matter. He gets praised by Republic soldiers - wow Revan! He gets praised by Traya - wow Revan! You have a blind, biased hag that loves you. Congratulations.

Escape81
I could watch you debate all day. You're hilarious - but make your points pretty well.

Find another thread. Do the same thing.

zephiel7

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by Motoko Sama
What do I mean? Isn't it simple enough for you to understand "NO".



What Force abilities does Revan have as a definite?



And Anakin somehow isn't a lightsaber prodigy? Beating someone with 70+ years of experience under their belt, someone who uses the lightsaber to lightsaber combat form, and has Darkside abilities as well when you've been training for what? 14 years? Damn, tell me that isn't a Lightsaber prodigy.

And more martial? In case you didn't know, Anakin was around during the Clone Wars.



Did I ever say that? Actually, did I ever voice my opinion that Anakin firmly is > Revan just because of him killing Dooku? No? Then don't put words in my mouth - thanks a bunch, hun.



"Getting pwned"? Do you need to rent ROTS from Blockbuster again or something?

Is that why Anakin gets the following attacks on the Soresu master:

1.) Kicks him square in the chest.
2.) Dragon Sleeper.
3.) Dropkick.
4.) Another kick.
5.) Knocks Kenobi around.
6.) Yet another kick dead in the face.

Actually, Anakin > Kenobi in lightsaber abilities. As much is obvious. Kenobi only did one thing: prolong the fight until the point that he got the terrain advantage (similar to the Sidious/Yoda fight). If it was even ground, Anakin would've killed Obi-Wan.



Played KOTOR. Played KOTOR 2. Own KOTOR. Own KOTOR 2. Read the storylines.

Seems I've done all that and still I disagree with you.



Like who? Darth Bandon?



Hm, considering Anakin is one of the only three said to be able to compete with Sidious, I don't think he's behind that far. And, also considering he beat Dooku fair and square - you can take him off the list.

Being the "Chosen One" has nothing to do with this. Yeah, Revan is "THE AWESOME VIDEO GAME CHARACTER!". I mean half his feats you could sneak through, not use Force powers, or a lightsaber for that matter. He gets praised by Republic soldiers - wow Revan! He gets praised by Traya - wow Revan! You have a blind, biased hag that loves you. Congratulations.

Apparently you have trouble understanding the concept of "Getting pwned". That would entail getting your legs cut off, meaning you LOST. Oh let me guess, "but Anakin was clouded with the dark side otherwise he would have won if he wasn't so arrogant". Anakin got beat, pwned, whatever..I suggest you watch the movies, and quit downplaying Revan. I'm not calling him a God but he sure as hell above Anakin. And again you still fail to remember how Malak was defeated while being powered by the star forge+8 Jedi. Unless of course you think Anakin beating Dooku is more impressive, in which cause you're assuming Dooku>Malak... Anakin hasn't shown to be on par with Revan regardless of your dislike for the character or the game.

kamikz
Zephiel, when did Mace ever stalemate Mace in saber combat? That's like saying he stalemated Yoda in AOTC because he ran away and no one won.

Escape81
If I may, I agree with Sama. The term "pwned" indicates and implies that one combatant is highly superior to another. Which wasn't the case as Anakin > Obi-Wan.

Darth Sexy
I believe Dooku beat Mace when they were both younger and in training, but it was widely believed that Mace=Dooku in saber combat.

Darth Sexy
damnit doublt post

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I believe Dooku beat Mace when they were both younger and in training, but it was widely believed that Mace=Dooku in saber combat.

It is confirmed by the official Star Wars databank that Dooku managed to defeat Mace when Dooku was still in the Order.

But, ever since, they've been exact equals. They had a fight on Boz Pity, which ended in a stalemate. Dooku pulled a Sidious, was afraid that he might get beaten, so he had Grievous's Magnaguards blindside Mace.

Darth Sexy
yup

kamikz
And Anakin has a very effective style against Dooku's style, so it doesn't necessarily imply Anakin>Mace in saber combat either. Besides, Anakin>Mace is a possibility, but let's not bring that up now...

Darth Sexy
Anakin is certainly not on par with Mace, unless of course you are to suggest Anakin>Sidious..

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Anakin is certainly not on par with Mace, unless of course you are to suggest Anakin>Sidious..

Um . . .

Anakin is on par with Mace. Anakin legitimately defeated Dooku in combat (as Mokoto Sama and I have proven on various threads), and Dooku is equal to Mace.

And, yes, I'd argue that Anakin is on par with Yoda and Sidious, Mace and Dooku in terms of lightsaber ability.

But Yoda and Sidious are a lot better in the Force.

Darth Sexy
It sounds like an A>B>C argument Escape. With that I could say Anakin could defeat Sidious because Mace defeated Sidious, or Anakin would stalemate Yoda because Sidious did. I don't think it's logical at all to put Anakin in the same category as Yoda or Sidious.

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It sounds like an A>B>C argument Escape. With that I could say Anakin could defeat Sidious because Mace defeated Sidious, or Anakin would stalemate Yoda because Sidious did. I don't think it's logical at all to put Anakin in the same category as Yoda or Sidious.

No, I never said that he could beat Mace. I said that he is on par with Mace. There's a difference.

Also, I won't get into the Mace vs. Sidious debate - but again, I have to point out, it was simply a lightsaber duel. Sidious > Mace in the Force.

And, once again, I clarified.

Anakin is on par with Yoda, Sidious, Mace, and Dooku in lightsaber ability.

Darth Sexy
But see this is where I disagree. Maybe on par with Dooku and Mace, but Sidious was above Dooku. I think.. And Yoda was the best of the best. I did remember reading it in one of the source books or roleplaying things that Anakin Mace and Dooku were in the same league, while Yoda and Sidious were above them. This goes for lightsaber combat and force abilities.

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by zephiel7
I suppose you didn't read the part of your quote where it states Dooku was mislead during the entire battle? roll eyes (sarcastic) He believed either way, he would be safe from death.

You're right -- however...



...you misinterpretated the quote, he was not told to "relax" - did you see Dooku in a recliner anywhere in the picture? I sure as hell didn't. The only one "relaxing" was Palpatine.

He was testing his strength, and the point was that if Anakin beat Dooku while Dooku, himself, was giving it his all then Anakin would be worthy as an apprentice. Did you miss the:

"So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."

Keywords in bold for easier reading, amigo.

Now class, let's move forward with that. "If Anakin is good enough" - meaning if Anakin is capable of defeating Dooku while giving it his all, "Anakin can kill Dooku" which he did. The thing is - Dooku thought he'd be safe from death, however, that doesn't mean Dooku wasn't going all out - as he was told to anyways, and the fact it wouldn't make sense for Anakin to be defeating Dooku who isn't fighting his best.

And another point, why would Palpatine want a weaker Sith apprentice when the attack on the Jedi was a mere few days away? Makes no sense. Anakin > Dooku fair and square.



Who would fight better? They'd fight equally. Considering Dooku is loyal a la Darth Maul, and will listen to his master. He was told to fight Anakin, he did so. And doesn't Dooku realize he's in trouble near the end anyways? Seems your points are pretty much done with.

Also, who would you rather have - someone who is weaker, or someone who is stronger when you're about to wage war with the Jedi? Or here's another brainteaser, why would you want to have a new apprentice that isn't even good enough to defeat your current apprentice?



Alright, I'll ignore it.



Want to watch ROTS again?



Something seems illogical if Sidious > Yoda, but Mace > Sidious, eh? Seems Star Wars is filled with illogical situations. Or rather fanboys - such as yourself - have a hard time accepting the fact Dooku lost fair and square.

Anyways, let's take a look at the situations:

Dooku vs. Anakin
1.) Anakin was focused.
2.) Anakin wasn't blinded by the Darkside.
3.) Anakin properly used his anger.
4.) Dooku isn't a defensive master.
5.) Wasn't arrogant with his actions.

And, let's now go to:

Obi-Wan vs. Anakin
1.) Anakin was corrupted.
2.) Facing THE Soresu Master.
3.) Obi-Wan was running the entire time (lava skating, moving away from Anakin)
4.) Anakin was arrogant.

Pretty different situations if you ask me. And on top of all that, Anakin was beating the piss out of Obi-Wan up until Obi-Wan securely got the high ground. That situation looks familiar...

Yoda vs. Sidious! Sidious had the high ground and thus the advantage needed to beat Yoda.



What? Was I arguing it wasn't a test? There you go again, Sexxxy - putting words in my mou-- actually, putting words on my screen that I wasn't arguing.



Um, they were testing Anakin to see if he was good enough to beat Dooku! That was the entire point of the "test" - to see if Anakin could beat Dooku fighting his best.

And please, prejudice? I've laid down a logical argument with statements, facts, and logical deductions. What have you shown me? "ANAKIN WAS BEING TESTED! DOOKU WASN'T FIGHTING BEST!"...hm, did you see a No. 2 pencil in Anakin's hand? I sure as hell didn't. Dooku was going all out, using all his strength and seeing if Anakin could best him. That's the ENTIRE POINT.



Sadly, this argument has been proven by me in the past - check "ROTS Tyrannus vs. ROTS Anakin and ROTJ Luke". Good topic, you could learn a thing or two from it.

And "gar greater"? What lingo is this?

Seriously though, you're actually using like some odd standard - saying that because Dooku beat Obi-Wan who beat Anakin, that means Anakin is inferior to Dooku. Well, I can say that you - not me - are saying that Mace is greater than Yoda because he beat Sidious.

Turned it on you.

And that is not at all what I'm saying, my definition of who beats who goes by actual facts and is backed by logical deductions. Anakin is > Dooku, and Anakin is also > Obi-Wan, it just so happens that a few things got in the way during the Obi-Wan/Anakin bout (arrogance, terrain, etc.).



Give me the "unstoppable" quote, and who said it. Then I can tell you exactly what I think.

Darth Sexy
I'm sorry, now ROTS Sidious>Yoda? What? wow...

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'm sorry, now ROTS Sidious>Yoda? What? wow...

What the hell are you talking about?

Darth Sexy
I was skimming through your wonderful speech and I saw Sidious>Yoda. Calm down.

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I was skimming through your wonderful speech and I saw Sidious>Yoda. Calm down.

No, what you saw was: "And on top of all that, Anakin was beating the piss out of Obi-Wan up until Obi-Wan securely got the high ground. That situation looks familiar...

Yoda vs. Sidious! Sidious had the high ground and thus the advantage needed to beat Yoda."

Sidious had the advantage needed to fend off Yoda. Yoda > Sidious on even ground, where did I imply otherwise? It's the same concept as Anakin > Obi-Wan on even ground.

kamikz
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It sounds like an A>B>C argument Escape. With that I could say Anakin could defeat Sidious because Mace defeated Sidious, or Anakin would stalemate Yoda because Sidious did. I don't think it's logical at all to put Anakin in the same category as Yoda or Sidious.



Lol, actually you were using the same argument since you said Mace>Sidious, Anakin>Mace, Anakin>Sidious....

GM Nebaris
Originally posted by tdtd
I was skimming through your wonderful speech and I saw Sidious>Yoda. Calm down.

That sounds like something TD would say, to make fun of the effort that some people put into the forum. He would usually use 'novel' instead of 'speech' though.

Darth Sexy
Where was I making fun of anybody? Nebaris you have not contributed a single intelligent thing on this forum, why even bother? And sorry Soma I see now.

GM Nebaris
I actually am the only person who was intelligent and perceptive enough to know that you are TDTD.

Darth Sexy
No, because I have proven I am not TDTD and so have the other people, so that would make you a troll..

GM Nebaris
Where has it been proven...

Darth Sexy
Escape, and Rex.. A MOD..

GM Nebaris
Rex obviously used the mod checker on your account, and there are not only many ways to fool it, but you could have easily taken up another isp, or moved house or something. You have failed to convince me that you're not TDTD.

Darth Sexy
I'm glad my job in life is not to convince a nutriding troll that I'm not someone you think I am.

zephiel7
You are completely ignoring the fact that Sidious guaranteed Dooku's safety right from the get go, in order to further your point. Dooku was mislead. Dooku was meant to test Anakin's ability with the lightsaber NOT kill him. If he were trying his best, then Ankain would have surely been killed, WHICH WOULD HAVE GONE AGAINST SIDIOUS' orders

1. "Palpatine has told Dooku. 'I have somebody who I think will be a great Sith Lord and I think we can get him to join us. But we need to test him. So we're going to setup a situation where you fight him. If he gets the best of you, then I'll stop the fight and he'll have passed the test. If you get the best of him, then we'll let him go, and we'll let him stew for a few more years until he's ready.' But behind it, obviously, is Palpatine's real intention: If Anakin is good enough, Anakin can kill Dooku and become Palpatine's new apprentice. But he didn't tell Dooku that."


Bolded. Easier for you to read bub...





Dooku was in a difficult situation because he was ordered to spare Anakin's life. To disarm or disable an opponent is much more difficult than straight out killing them. It seems your points are pretty much done with. Dooku was not putting his all, because he was ordered to not kill Anakin, "but let him go, and let him stew for a few more years until he's ready."

I am sure Palpatine would not be happy if Dooku went "all out" and killed a potentially powerful ally.





I have seen it once, but once is enough. The battle lasted for a long time, with no side gaining a significant advantage against the other.

And Anakin going on the offensive? OF COURSE. It has something to do with, oh lightsaber styles if you ever heard of them? No of course not... Obi Wan used Soresu, a defensive stance, in order to tire Anakin.

Anakin forcing the offensive on Obi Wan does not mean he was tooling Obi Wan. It is a consequence of Obi Wan's chosen combat style.

Oh yeah, for sure Anakin is greater than Dooku roll eyes (sarcastic), DESPITE the fact that Dooku held the two Jedi back even when they were both attacking him at once. And the fact that he deflected Anakin and removed Obi Wan from the fight in one effective stroke? VERY LOGICAL DEDUCTIONS there buddy. I mean if he could repel the attacks of possibly one of the best co-ordinated duos in Star Wars, then he could not take one of them down. I suppose taking down a mob would be much easier than taking down one member at a time . roll eyes (sarcastic)

Darth Sexy
Revan>Anakin. The End.

Generic Hero
True, however Dooku clearly refrained from using force lightning on Anakin... for whatever reason.



Yep, Dooku had great control over force telekenisis... but we haven't really seen Malak fight someone on their level, except Bastila, and he gave that b*tch a good whipping.



Well, he did beat Mace several years ago. We don't really know how they stack up by RotS, but it's fair to say they're close in power.

Another thing: Revan is known to be calm and patient. We see this on his flagship when he defensively waits for the Jedi to attack him.
Anakin is a hot-headed brute by nature. Anakin did face a calmer, more experienced and defensive opponent before... and got three of his limbs removed.

jollyjim311
True, but Anakin wouldn't be emotionally confused. He would use his anger to "give him focus, make stronger." Also, Obi Wan knew Anakin's attacks inside and out. He was his instructor. Revan also knew all of Malak's training, most likely, and, probably wouldn't fair so well against him if he didn't. Obi Wan had the same advantage over Anakin that Revan did over Malak. Revan knew how to go about fighting Malak. He wouldn't know how to fight Anakin, at least not in the same sense or as well as he did against Malak.

Darth Sexy
Revan knew all of Malak's training is pure speculation, and unsupported might I add.

jollyjim311
Well, he did train him.

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by zephiel7
You are completely ignoring the fact that Sidious guaranteed Dooku's safety right from the get go, in order to further your point. Dooku was mislead. Dooku was meant to test Anakin's ability with the lightsaber NOT kill him. If he were trying his best, then Ankain would have surely been killed, WHICH WOULD HAVE GONE AGAINST SIDIOUS' orders

You realize he wouldn't have to make the killing blow simply point his saber or withhold it at the end, right? Have you ever seen a bout with a bokken? Or perhaps fencing? Same concept applies.

I mean, what happened in AOTC? Why didn't he just do that if he is greater? Are you telling me he wasn't aiming to kill Anakin then too?

Anyways, if Dooku firmly is superior to Anakin, then why would Sidious want a weaker apprentice when he's about to execute Order 66 in a few days? Answer this point directly this time. As it makes no sense, nor does anything you say. And you can add to the fact that only three people of the PT Era can compete with Sidious - Mace, Yoda, and omg - Anakin. Dooku isn't on the list.



And this means what exactly? Nothing? Anakin was good enough to defeat a Dooku that was fighting his best, thus was able to kill him. I'm going to ask again: why would Dooku be relaxing throughout the fight, or fighting at a lower standard when he's suppose to test Anakin's true power - which cannot be revealed by fighting a less motivated opponent.



Comprehension isn't a strong point of yours I can see, Wolverine - you were better off at Marvel Comics, boy.



Uh, not really -- if Dooku is so much superior he should be able to disarm Anakin a la AOTC. He was ordered to FIGHT Anakin. You can definitely tell when someone lost a fight, they don't have to kill them. An example would be: Mace Windu vs. Sidious.



Not really.



He was ordered to fight Anakin. To test Anakin's full strength, he cannot test Anakin's full power unless Dooku himself is giving his full strength. Simple concept, but you're making it a complicated one.



I'm sure Palpatine wouldn't be happy if Anakin beat someone who was holding back. What sense does that make? Why would he want Anakin if he gets the best of a relatively lowered Dooku? Answer: He wouldn't. Dooku went all-out.



LOL! Anakin got seven hits on Obi-Wan while Obi-Wan was running away. Anakin was winning, and was getting his hits in. Obi-Wan was not. Perhaps you missed the 20 second long Dragon Sleeper?



WTF are you talking about? Nothing in that quote said jack about Anakin going offensive. You need your glasses checked ASAP.

And now I know you need to watch the movie again, because Obi-Wan was the one that was tired (or at least looked it) - he was breathing hard while Anakin was fine perfectly.



No, the fact that Anakin broke Obi-Wan's guard several times is what I was talking about. He was whooping the defensive master with melee attacks.



Anakin wasn't angry firstly, and secondly they needed to WORK TOGETHER. Sometimes two on one can work towards the one man if the two's combat styles don't mesh. Obviously Obi-Wan attacking on the offensive isn't good because that's not what his style was meant for, and Anakin got less swings in because of Obi-Wan.



Again, WTF are you talking about? Here's an instance where someone was better off one on one than working as a team:

TPM Kenobi did better against Maul than Qui-Gon and himself did.

There you go, another instance where one person faired better one on one than two on one.



A mob? Sure, it'd be easier to take them out one on one. However, two people isn't something I'd consider a "mob" - at least in the context you're using it in. Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi were coordinated, I mean they had worked together for some damn time...yet Obi-Wan faired better against Maul alone. M I RITE? Yes.

Anyways, one last question (actually I have three more): if Dooku is superior, then why couldn't he just disarm him or disable him? If he's such the superior swordsman, he should be able to do such.

As well, doesn't Dooku even realize himself that he's in danger towards the end, and proceeds to go all out?

Regardless, it really makes no sense because if Dooku was superior then why would Anakin be tested against him if he was just going to lose anyways? And then you have the other query, why would he fight a lesser Dooku? The Sith don't want weaker apprentices - they want stronger ones. As much is obvious.

Anyways, argued that too much; back on the exact topic - can someone explain to me (not using bullsh*t words to describe Revan) how exactly will Revan defeat Anakin? Or, at the least, what exactly does he hold over Anakin?

Lightsnake
Quotes:
NEC: Dooku fought for his life
ROTS novelization: States Anakin and Dooku both gave their all.
Movie: "I will soon have a new apprentice...one younger and more powerful!"
Labyrinth of Evil: Dooku is told to the best of his ability and Sidious will save him if there are any issues

Darth Sexy
Yet Revan>zee ch0zen 0ne.

Lightsnake
Except...he doesn't. Considering Anakin at the hiehgt of his powers surpasses, well, pretty much everyone when his head's clear

Darth Sexy
That's an excuse lightsnake. You cannot use his 'potential' or his dark side involvement and stupidity in a versus thread. Revan was simply the most powerful of his time, while Anakin wasn't. Revan would take Anakin in both force and saber abilities.

Lightsnake
Revan was weaker than Kun, kinda removes the 'most powerful of his time', while Anakin was one of the strongest at his time...Golden Age of the Jedi

Darth Sexy
Unfortunately Revan and Kun lived in different times. Kun was the strongest when he was alive, and Revan was the strongest when he was alive, this has been stated in KOTOR. Anakin was ONE of the strongest when he was alive.. What is your point?

Lightsnake
Erm, no...Revan and Kun were in...40 years of eachother.

And the PT times>The old times. George Lucas called the PT times the Golden Age of the Jedi, end of story

Darth Sexy
Define the Golden Age of the Jedi? Oh wait, you can't, because that doesn't state they were the most powerful.
PT Times were not greater than the Old times, that's just you "TOTJ Hating" again.

And even if that was miraculously the case which it isn't, that still doesn't put Anakin above Revan..

And Revan was the most powerful sith/jedi while alive.

Lightsnake
Well, since Yoda and Mace, the two strongest Jedi in the history of the Order were around...

And Revan was STILL weaker than Exar. They lived in the same time, which Exar was the strongest of. And I'm afraid in several areas, the PT is called the Golden Age in power and saber dueling...started by Lucas himself

Darth Sexy
Oy here we go with Mace and Yoda being the strongest, I expect ambiguous Dark Rendezvous text afterwards..
Revan WAS weaker than Kun, so? Show me where GL states the Golden Age is in terms of power and dueling, and not peace?

And again, Exar was dead when Revan was alive. Revan was the strongest of them all without Exar.

Lightsnake
Commentary. Escape and Nai have mentioned it. ROTs novelization, Dark rendevous, Chronology, Power of the Jedi, Legacy of the Jedi, AOTC comic adaptation, AOTC novelization...

And Arca, Ood, Odan, Vodo...they'd OWN Revan. Oh, and Golden Age was defined, thanks!

Darth Sexy
Actually, wrong. Because as I recall in PT, Lucas mentions the golden age as an apex of peace and lightsaber training or combat, not power..

Arca, Ood, Odan, and Vodo would not beat Revan. That's unsupported speculation or just ridiculous opinion. Thanks!

Lightsnake
And because you're a liar, I'm disregarding what you say. Because he referred to a Golden Age in context of power and dueling

And Thon and the Sunriders? Would own Revan. Odan and Vodo would just block him from the force.

Darth Sexy
Proof? Didn't think so. Calling someone a liar while lying to yourself isn't cool lightsnake. And your continual speculation makes your posts useless. "Oh well he would so totally pwn this guy". Right lightsnake, right.

Lightsnake
Yaddah yaddah yaddah, you lose

Darth Sexy
Pwned again lightsnake. Sorry, your opinions are irrelevant when you can't form cogent arguments, but please continue since it is humorous to watch someone on the SW forums live in denial.

Lightsnake
Oh, just shut up. you've lost! You're not even trying to argue! I have Lucas and at least five sources!

Darth Sexy
Omg and I have 100 souces and the other shit I can make up to feel better at night

PWNT

Lightsnake
Unlike you, I list my sources. You just don't know how to debate and you keep using Ad Hominem

Darth Sexy
Says the one that uses who makes up shit, can't post sources but claims they exist, obviously is failing in this argument, and now going to throw around Logical Fallacy text he doesn't understand.. Learn to debate yourself lightsnake.

Lightsnake
I do post the sources. I list the names and where they come from. Gonna bash Nai for doing the same thing?

Darth Sexy
No, from what I see Nai apparently posts very conclusive and complete texts, actually posts sources instead of playing the "I have sources but find them yourself" game, and doesn't cry when he loses an argument.

Lightsnake
No, he does the same thing as me...he says his argugment and where it comes from, which, if you bothered to read our debates, you'd see. I didn't cha;llenge him when he mentioned info from the TOTJ companion, I incorporated it and gve a counter argument

Darth Sexy
You haven't countered this, you keep providing weak arguments when it's already widely assumed Revan is superior to Anakin. But please, continue with your "Well GL says this" quotes, because they are VERY relevant to a versus fight, right?

Lightsnake
I'm curious, where's it 'widely assumed' elsewhere from here? Not at the SWB, not at TFN, not at SW.com,...

Darth Sexy
Why don't you start using sources that include EU, not SW only and ambiguous text. In a versus forum the arguments have been made. Revan>Anakin, and you won't counter that with your "GL says" crap.

Lightsnake
...what are you blathering about? 'EU only and not Star Wars?"

and Motoko Sama already shot down the argument

Darth Sexy
No, she didn't LOL..I'm reading her argument, she clearly dislikes the ambiguity surrounding Revan. Maybe you need to interpret things the way that they are? You can argue all day about the "Golden Age", while I sit here calmy and tell you Revan was the best of his time(since Kun was dead), while Anakin wasn't in the top 2. "Yoda and Mace were the greatest ever yadda yadda yadda" right..

Lightsnake
Revan is better than Thon and Vima now?
And sorry, Illustrious destroyed this Revan owns all a long time ago.
And unlike you, I have facts. Now bet banned again, Tdtd...it's so obvious it's you, Td...you use the SAME EXACT writing style, even the same insults!

Darth Sexy
Yes? LOL.. Oh lightsnake, you are too much. "Well this guy destroyed revan blah blah blah years ago so".... Shut up lol.. That's just funny how well you concede an argument.. Lack of facts, lack of realistic perspective, ahhh and the childish name calling that makes you look even more like a fool.

Lightsnake
Do you even know Illustrious? he's one of the Antediluvians here.

Darth Sexy
No, but I assume he's another one you keep mentioning that doesn't seem to come back to support your ridiculous claims.

Lightsnake
Alright, anyone wanna educate this guy as to who Illustrious is, considerring Ill's cited as one of the best debaters on this forum?

Darth Sexy
The fact that you bring up a person from whenever, obviously not now, as your defeated argument, is sad among itself. You and your constant irrelevant misdirection. You're too easy lightsnake.

Lightsnake
And with that staement, you prove youself as Td...he once said the same EXACT thing...or should I say you did, Td?
http://s15.************.com/The_Edge_of_Destiny(Delete this)/index.php?showuser=3

Lightsnake
http://s15.invision(Delete this part)free.com/The_Edge_of_Destiny/index.php?showuser=3

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
The fact that you bring up a person from whenever, obviously not now, as your defeated argument, is sad among itself. You and your constant irrelevant misdirection. You're too easy lightsnake.

You are absolutely pathetic.

Illustrious is a user of KMC and these Edge of Beyond forums. He is a confederate of Nai, and is considered one of the most elite debators on here.

Darth Sexy
I'm pathetic because I don't know the guy? Nice Logic escape, get off of lightsnake's sack seriously. If you don't understand what's going on then don't post. I never insulted Illustrious, it's just sad to see someone on the losing side revert to "Well do you know this guy, he shot this a long time ago". If IM the pathetic one then you clearly are biased towards lightsnake and stupidity.

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'm pathetic because I don't know the guy? Nice Logic escape, get off of lightsnake's sack seriously. If you don't understand what's going on then don't post. I never insulted Illustrious, it's just sad to see someone on the losing side revert to "Well do you know this guy, he shot this a long time ago". If IM the pathetic one then you clearly are biased towards lightsnake and stupidity.

You're pathetic because you intentionally egg him on. Lightsnake is sad enough to get caught in.

Shut the hell up and if you bash him or me again, I'll report you.

jollyjim311
Guys, facts, please, they can hold the most water in this debate. Rhetoric can only take you so far.

Revan beat Malak, and we don't know how powerful he was, either.

Anakin has a lot of feats under his belt. Post some of Revan's achievements that put him beyond Anakin, please!

Darth Sexy
I offer 1 insult to lightsnake's 10, and I get reported, and i'm leading lightsnake on? Are you sure you don't just agree with everything he says?

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I offer 1 insult to lightsnake's 10, and I get reported, and i'm leading lightsnake on? Are you sure you don't just agree with everything he says?

No. You offer equal. The same will go for Lightsnake if he continues.

And no, I clearly don't agree with everything he says. Now shut the hell up and debate properly. None of that crap with Lightsnake.

Darth Sexy
ok.

Generic Hero
We still know Malak was stronger than thousands of Sith. We know Malak beat Kavar, who was the best Jedi Guardian (arguably the best Jedi duelist) of that time. We know Revan beat Yusanis, an Echani grandmaster and Mandalore, who's confirmed by Canderous to have had killed Jedi.

Darth Sexy
We don't know Malak beat Kavar, that is speculation. But Malak was 2nd only to Revan in the time of KOTOR, and him being fueled by the SF and 8 jedi says a lot for Revan.

Generic Hero
Granted, it's unconfirmed but it's hinted and implied that Malak did best Kavar. Mandalore says something like "Kavar?! We thought you died fighting Malak!"

Darth Sexy
yea it is hinted but it is not confirmed. It is speculated that Kavar destroyed Malak's jaw.

zephiel7
You do realize that being able to put your opponent in a prone position without mortally wounding them is difficult, especially when the opponent is trying to kill you.

If we started swinging bastard swords around and you are told only to disable me, while I am trying to kill you, which one do you think has the advantage? I am fighting for my life, believing that you indend to kill me, while you always have the psychological relief that your instructor would jump in to save you when the going gets rough. Which one will be fighting better?

I have the advantage of slashing you anywhere I want, while your choices are a lot more limited.

Anakin came in with intent to kill, but Dooku was told to disable. What more, Palpatine lied to him, saying even if Anakin was gaining the upper hand, he would step in.

Care to rethink your position?

What more, I find it only a little strange that Dooku did not blast Anakin with lightning...






Oh I don't know, perhaps having the chosen one of the force fall to the dark side would be an advantage, even if he was momentarily weaker. At a certain point, according to Sidious, Anakin would surpass them both anyway.





He was fighting at a lower standard because he was following Palpatine's orders, "not to kill Anakin."





Um, in case you didn't notice, Anakin did grow stronger since AOTC. And oh boy, you are saying since Mace disarmed Sidious, then Dooku should be able to do the same to Anakin? First of all, don't steer this debate to another topic. We do not know clearly how much better Windu is compared to Palpatine when it comes down to dueling.




Wrong, ding dong! You are ignoring the fact that Dooku was prohibted from mortally wounding Anakin. Again, a disadvantage.



I say this again, Dooku was prohibited from killing Skywalker! He had to make sure that he did not land a potentially fatal blow. Skywalker won by circumstance alone, not by any real skill over Dooku's. Even if Skywalker defeated a lowered Dooku, Palpatine knew that Skywalker had great potential in the force. One that after being nurtured, would make him the strongest Sith Lord of the PT.





And Qui Gon died. So much for fighting Maul alone. Obi Wan used this as his stimulus to defeat Maul. Otherwise Maul would have definately won the battle. The outcome of the battle was largely determined by Maul's overconfidence anyways. He was close to killing Kenobi.



Anakin and Obi Wan attacked Dooku once before. They had time to analyze his attacks and maneuvers. Yet they were unable to gain any serious advantage against Dooku the second time, despite being one of the best co-ordinated duos of the PT.

If Anakin and Obi Wan attacking together did not have any advantage, then why did they work together to defeat Assajj Ventress in Obsession?




Is it so difficult to understand that they could have fought Dooku on either side? Dooku was still deflecting both of their attacks. What does that say about Dooku's dueling abilities? Nah wait, I will let you answer that.




I was not arguing by what margin Dooku was superior, just that he was a better duelist who lost due to unfavourable circumstances than any overbearing skill on Anakin's part.



You said it yourself, he was following Palpatine's orders as a good apprentice would. Not to kill Anakin, but test him. He thought Sidious would jump to the rescue. He didn't though.




Sidious knew Anakin had the potential to be the greatest, he wanted to see how far Anakin progressed. Palpatine lied to Dooku, and told Dooku to hold back from killing Anakin, hence Anakin benefitted from the situation

Darth Sexy
I really don't like this Dooku vs. Anakin argument. But it's a testament to the belief that the most powerful doesn't always win.. As we see with Dooku and Anakin, and then Anakin and Obiwan.

Escape81
Zephiel, I had this argument with Darth Vious a thousand and one times on the now-locked Dooku's Skill thread.

Sama is right. How the hell could Palpatine's test be accurate if he had Dooku restrain himself?

Darth Sexy
I personally think Palpatine fooled Dooku..

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I personally think Palpatine fooled Dooku..

Why? For what reason?

Lucas confirmed it: Palpatine wanted the stronger apprentice. So if Dooku won, they would have waited a while longer, and then try it again.

He wasn't going to settle for anything less.

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by zephiel7
You do realize that being able to put your opponent in a prone position without mortally wounding them is difficult, especially when the opponent is trying to kill you.

If Dooku is superior to Anakin he'd have no problem. I don't even know why you bothered to respond since Lightsnake and myself both provided the facts - quotes, sources, etc.

But just for the hell of it I'll go along...



This isn't Medieval Storytime, Siegfried.



Hm, I seem to remember Anakin not going for the killing blow, therefore your entire situation - much like your entire argument - falls apart.



*Screech* Hit the brakes, cap'n - we have a problem here. Dooku is loyal, similar to Darth Maul. Taking that in hand, he was told to give it his all by none other than...his commanding officer, Darth Leatherface, and when he tells you to do something you better f*cking do it.



I'll reply to this scenario with a word I'm fond of - "No".



Really? Is that why he said, and I quote, "I shouldn't." - this point is done, so you can pucker up and kiss that argument goodbye. bye



He was told to fight.



And? This somehow means he should disobey commands, and not test Anakin's full strength? Nope.

Why would Palpatine even need to step in if Dooku is better? Why would Anakin gain the upper hand? Why would the thought even be?

If he really was testing his strength, he could duel at full skill and see how good he is. And, according to *you*, Dooku is better; therefore Dooku losing wouldn't be a factor, or even a thought for that matter.



no



And Force lightning has been shown to be blocked by a less skilled Kenobi.

I wonder why Sidious didn't destroy DE Luke with his "amazing, terrifying, insane, l337" skillz! I wonder why Exar Kun didn't blast a hole right through Vodo's chest instead of confronting him. I wonder why Dooku doesn't use Force lightning at every turn. I wonder why Kreia doesn't instakill everybody in her path.

I find it a little stran-- oh wait, no I don't.



Actually, according to Sidious Anakin was already more powerful.

As well, why would he want the weaker apprentice when the Jedi Purge was in a few days? Why would he just let Anakin kill Dooku if he was weaker? He wouldn't.

Ya' know it's coming...

Logic > you.



But if our wonderful Count of Sereno is so much better, he should've had no problem. I mean he dispatched Obi-Wan oh-so easily, so why not Anakin?

Wait, don't answer that. I forgot I already know the answer: because Anakin > Dooku.

P.S. - Don't think about pulling the "but who was left without limbs, HUH BUB?!" card - it's already been countered.



No, I'm not saying that. Actually, what in the hell are you even talking about? I'm saying Dooku doesn't have to kill Anakin to know he won the fight. Misinterpreted.



Steering in a different direction? I was giving an example, or another instance of where the same circumstances have been shown.



So was Anakin. He's a JEDI, ya' know those "Upholders of the Peace", and all that jazz.



Point being? Qui-Gon faired horribly IMO when working with Obi-Wan, and faired horribly when going one on one with Maul. Obi-Wan, however, was different than Qui-Gon. He had a better fight with Maul alone than working as a team. That reminds me of a scene in ROTS...



What the hell are you talking about? And "one of the best coordinated duos of the PT"? You know that if you aren't the worst, you can be "one of the best".

Anyways, I don't see how they had "time to analyze his attacks and maneuvers", or actually why they even would. Did they know they'd face him in the future? No.



Maybe because they work better against some forms over others.

Sure, it has an advantage - numbers, and puts the person defending at a disadvantage, however, looking at the flip side it can be a disadvantage for the two people as well. The best answer I could give is that it depends on the scenario really.



It says he can block a defensive lightsaber style that's trying to attack offensively, and someone who has to be aware of his partner's safety.

Dooku is a great duelist. In the top 5 of the PT, however, Anakin's just better.



Sadly, your argument has been trumped by several sources.



Okay...is my entire argument some sort of foreign concept to you? I mean I'm Asian, but c'mon - does it look like I'm speaking Japanese?

Why would Sidious need to "jump to the rescue" if Dooku is superior?



It's kind of hard to test full abilities if you are not giving the test with everything you've got. Anakin could defeat a Dooku that is "relaxing" as you put it, but what does that speak for Anakin's skill/ability? It really doesn't. Plus, there'd be no reason for Palpatine to need to step in then.



Actually, Kenobi wasn't really a factor to begin with. It was Anakin, notice "if Anakin gets the best of you...", not "if somehow Kenobi jumps back to life and together they whoop yo' ass".

So, again I say, if Dooku is Anakin's superior - and I doubt he'd make a mistake on purpose or even on accident considering his arrogance ("I've become more powerful than any Jedi"wink and his dueling skill - then there should be no reason for Palpatine to even say "if Anakin gets the best of you".



I'll end with this:

Palpatine already said Anakin was more powerful. Making of ROTS acknowledges Anakin would win fair and square. ROTS Novelization and the commentary both add to this fact. So...

The verdict: Anakin > Dooku.

Case closed.

Now back to the subject, what exactly does Revan have that tells me he's better than Anakin? Really.

Force Powers? Which?
Lightsaber ability? What form does he use again?

He beat Malak while Malak was empowered by the Star Forge. Great. Amplify the powers of the Star Forge.

Escape81
One question: where the hell were you when I was arguing against Vious in that 5,000 page thread?

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by Motoko Sama
If Dooku is superior to Anakin he'd have no problem. I don't even know why you bothered to respond since Lightsnake and myself both provided the facts - quotes, sources, etc.

But just for the hell of it I'll go along...



This isn't Medieval Storytime, Siegfried.



Hm, I seem to remember Anakin not going for the killing blow, therefore your entire situation - much like your entire argument - falls apart.



*Screech* Hit the brakes, cap'n - we have a problem here. Dooku is loyal, similar to Darth Maul. Taking that in hand, he was told to give it his all by none other than...his commanding officer, Darth Leatherface, and when he tells you to do something you better f*cking do it.



I'll reply to this scenario with a word I'm fond of - "No".



Really? Is that why he said, and I quote, "I shouldn't." - this point is done, so you can pucker up and kiss that argument goodbye. bye



He was told to fight.



And? This somehow means he should disobey commands, and not test Anakin's full strength? Nope.

Why would Palpatine even need to step in if Dooku is better? Why would Anakin gain the upper hand? Why would the thought even be?

If he really was testing his strength, he could duel at full skill and see how good he is. And, according to *you*, Dooku is better; therefore Dooku losing wouldn't be a factor, or even a thought for that matter.



no



And Force lightning has been shown to be blocked by a less skilled Kenobi.

I wonder why Sidious didn't destroy DE Luke with his "amazing, terrifying, insane, l337" skillz! I wonder why Exar Kun didn't blast a hole right through Vodo's chest instead of confronting him. I wonder why Dooku doesn't use Force lightning at every turn. I wonder why Kreia doesn't instakill everybody in her path.

I find it a little stran-- oh wait, no I don't.



Actually, according to Sidious Anakin was already more powerful.

As well, why would he want the weaker apprentice when the Jedi Purge was in a few days? Why would he just let Anakin kill Dooku if he was weaker? He wouldn't.

Ya' know it's coming...

Logic > you.



But if our wonderful Count of Sereno is so much better, he should've had no problem. I mean he dispatched Obi-Wan oh-so easily, so why not Anakin?

Wait, don't answer that. I forgot I already know the answer: because Anakin > Dooku.

P.S. - Don't think about pulling the "but who was left without limbs, HUH BUB?!" card - it's already been countered.



No, I'm not saying that. Actually, what in the hell are you even talking about? I'm saying Dooku doesn't have to kill Anakin to know he won the fight. Misinterpreted.



Steering in a different direction? I was giving an example, or another instance of where the same circumstances have been shown.



So was Anakin. He's a JEDI, ya' know those "Upholders of the Peace", and all that jazz.



Point being? Qui-Gon faired horribly IMO when working with Obi-Wan, and faired horribly when going one on one with Maul. Obi-Wan, however, was different than Qui-Gon. He had a better fight with Maul alone than working as a team. That reminds me of a scene in ROTS...



What the hell are you talking about? And "one of the best coordinated duos of the PT"? You know that if you aren't the worst, you can be "one of the best".

Anyways, I don't see how they had "time to analyze his attacks and maneuvers", or actually why they even would. Did they know they'd face him in the future? No.



Maybe because they work better against some forms over others.

Sure, it has an advantage - numbers, and puts the person defending at a disadvantage, however, looking at the flip side it can be a disadvantage for the two people as well. The best answer I could give is that it depends on the scenario really.



It says he can block a defensive lightsaber style that's trying to attack offensively, and someone who has to be aware of his partner's safety.

Dooku is a great duelist. In the top 5 of the PT, however, Anakin's just better.



Sadly, your argument has been trumped by several sources.



Okay...is my entire argument some sort of foreign concept to you? I mean I'm Asian, but c'mon - does it look like I'm speaking Japanese?

Why would Sidious need to "jump to the rescue" if Dooku is superior?



It's kind of hard to test full abilities if you are not giving the test with everything you've got. Anakin could defeat a Dooku that is "relaxing" as you put it, but what does that speak for Anakin's skill/ability? It really doesn't. Plus, there'd be no reason for Palpatine to need to step in then.



Actually, Kenobi wasn't really a factor to begin with. It was Anakin, notice "if Anakin gets the best of you...", not "if somehow Kenobi jumps back to life and together they whoop yo' ass".

So, again I say, if Dooku is Anakin's superior - and I doubt he'd make a mistake on purpose or even on accident considering his arrogance ("I've become more powerful than any Jedi"wink and his dueling skill - then there should be no reason for Palpatine to even say "if Anakin gets the best of you".



I'll end with this:

Palpatine already said Anakin was more powerful. Making of ROTS acknowledges Anakin would win fair and square. ROTS Novelization and the commentary both add to this fact. So...

The verdict: Anakin > Dooku.

Case closed.

Now back to the subject, what exactly does Revan have that tells me he's better than Anakin? Really.

Force Powers? Which?
Lightsaber ability? What form does he use again?

He beat Malak while Malak was empowered by the Star Forge. Great. Amplify the powers of the Star Forge.

Thats just ownage Motoko.

I'm tired of hearing all this Dooku > Anakin crap. I stopped arguing it a LONG time ago. As I remember I was the first to argue it. I believe I was the first to provide the quote from Mr. Lucas from the DVD commentary. Then, after all the Dooku fanboys STILL refuted what even the HIGHEST canon (Lucas) had said. I gave up trying. Why? Because the Dooku fanboys just refuse to believe that their precious Dooku could lose. He did, SOOOO many sources, including Lucas (the highest source) have said it. So just get over it.

Anakin is BETTER then Dooku!

THE END!

Now as for Anakin vs. Revan, I've not seen Revan do anything that amazing. I'd say Anakin wins, after a good fight. Revan is no slouch afterall.

Darth Sexy
Holy shit Soma that was a story.. Congratulations on proving Anakin>Dooku.. Now I'm going to argue this without reading that book you just wrote. So Anakin>Dooku simply because he won in a saber fight right? I'm sure you addressed but I'm going to blindly state that your logic dictates that Obiwan>Anakin because Obiwan beat him, excuses aside. Now lets take into consideration that Revan has shown far more impressive abilities, was the best of his time(exclusing probably Exar Kun), and defeated a Malak(who alone would probably be a match or equal to Dooku), powered by 8+ jedi+SF. Now if you can give examples of what Anakin did that was nearly as impressive as this, as a testament to his power, I am inclined to listen.

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Holy shit Soma that was a story.. Congratulations on proving Anakin>Dooku.. Now I'm going to argue this without reading that book you just wrote. So Anakin>Dooku simply because he won in a saber fight right? I'm sure you addressed but I'm going to blindly state that your logic dictates that Obiwan>Anakin because Obiwan beat him, excuses aside. Now lets take into consideration that Revan has shown far more impressive abilities, was the best of his time(exclusing probably Exar Kun), and defeated a Malak(who alone would probably be a match or equal to Dooku), powered by 8+ jedi+SF. Now if you can give examples of what Anakin did that was nearly as impressive as this, as a testament to his power, I am inclined to listen.

I don't think Sama said that she believed that Anakin would defeat Revan. The way I understand, she was simply trying to explain to Zephiel what I tried to explain to Darth Vious. That Dooku lost, fair and square, because he was simply inferior to Anakin.

Personally? I think that Revan would defeat Anakin, but it would be a difficult fight. Simply because Anakin's power levels fluctuate so dramatically, and his raw connection to the Force is the strongest we've seen. He is 'teh Chosen One', y'know.

Darth Sexy
Yea man his raw connection is the strongest but his raw connection never did anything as you know. He never lived up to anything except a failure. I would put Revan above the entire PT council except for POSSIBLY Yoda, but Anakin would have a very slim to none chance against him.

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Yea man his raw connection is the strongest but his raw connection never did anything as you know. He never lived up to anything except a failure. I would put Revan above the entire PT council except for POSSIBLY Yoda, but Anakin would have a very slim to none chance against him.

Anakin's raw connection and primal ability allowed him to defeat a Force-user whose experience and finesse largely outranked his own. It also allowed him to get even stronger as a fight progressed.

So, who knows? If the fight grows on long enough - Anakin may simply just build up so much rage and hatred that he overpowers Revan, due to the fact that the script confirmed that Anakin gets stronger during the fights he's in.

So, no. Anakin doesn't have a slim to small chance against Revan. He has a good one, but I think that Revan would ultimately understand the threat Anakin poses in a long fight, and would do whatever he could to take him out immediately.

Also - Yoda or Sidious (even in RotS) would give Revan a hell of a fight.

Darth Sexy
I think you are mistaken about his strength based on his raw connection. It is common knowledge that any Jedi/Sith gets stronger when they use the dark side of the force.

And while Sidious and Yoda might give him a fight, neither one of them can ultimately compare to Revan, not until Sidious gets into DE, in which he would probably curbstomp him..

Escape81
No. The script confirmed that he was getting stronger before Dooku even began taunting him, which is why Dooku had to put Obi-Wan out of the fight - so he could concentrate all of his energies on Anakin. Anakin was becoming too much for him.



I think that Sidious and Yoda would give Revan an excellent fight. Likely defeat him? No, but that's just my opinion. Especially given Yoda's undeniable speed and overwhelming agility. Sidious also possesses this - and his knack for tactical fighting. Though Revan is a tactical genius in his own right.

And, yes. As of Dark Empire, Sidious would crush Revan.

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Holy shit Soma that was a story..

Yeah, a nice bedtime story.



Book? Lol.



Nope, other things including Sidious himself, The Making of ROTS, the New Essential Chronology, among numerous other sources which eventually add up in Revenge of the Sith itself.



Not at all actually. How does my logic dictate that exactly? I even argued that Anakin > Obi-Wan on fair ground. Obi-Wan beat him unfairly. Anakin beat Dooku fairly. So, how would I be arguing Kenobi > Skywalker?



Such as? Don't just say "impressive sh*t" - what exactly do you consider "impressive abilities"?



How can he be the "best of his time" when right after you mention he might not be?

Whatever, I'll let this one slide.



Again, I say - great feat, Revan. Seriously, that is impressive. Malak is a pure brute, and a great fighter. However, you've yet to amplify the powers or even explain the extent of how Revan won.



You didn't even give me anything to work with. All you said was "did impressive stuff, best of his time, beat Malak". BEAT MALAK. That's really the only thing you gave me, lol.

And Escape is right, I was basically just trying to clear up (for anybody who didn't know/wouldn't accept) the matter on Anakin and Dooku. It's still attests Anakin's ability, but that's not the only thing I'm arguing. So far, I've gotten nothing to refute on the matter really, which is why I asked "which Force powers? What form?", etc.

Escape81
*grumbles* I still wanna know where you were when that "Dooku's Skill" thread came up...

Motoko Sama
laughing

California. Took a long vacation.

Escape81
Originally posted by Motoko Sama
laughing

California. Took a long vacation.

Lol.

Like I said, you crack me up with the way you debate. So blunt, but you make your point. Kind've like Traya (the debator).

Darth Sexy
Eh you can say that Anakin>Obiwan on fair ground, but that wasn't the case. It was more like Anakin=Obiwan on fair ground, and MAYBE after a long time Anakin would win, but he was getting the kicks in as much as Obiwan, lucas made that a fair fight. On the other hand, Yoda=Sidious at a disadvantage, so that would make Yoda>Sidious on fair ground.

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Eh you can say that Anakin>Obiwan on fair ground, but that wasn't the case. It was more like Anakin=Obiwan on fair ground, and MAYBE after a long time Anakin would win, but he was getting the kicks in as much as Obiwan, lucas made that a fair fight. On the other hand, Yoda=Sidious at a disadvantage, so that would make Yoda>Sidious on fair ground.

Anakin is superior to Obi-Wan in both aspects: the Force and saber abilities.

The reason he lost has been explained over and over and over again, to the point that repeating it is completely redundant. He lost because Obi-Wan had a level-head, more experience, knew Anakin's personality, and - best of all - was the granddaddy of lightsaber defense.

As for the Sidious and Yoda debate, you know where I stand on that, and I took the time to write a "novel" on par with Sama's here, to explain it.

Darth Sexy
I don't know where you stand on that lol

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Eh you can say that Anakin>Obiwan on fair ground, but that wasn't the case.

What was the case then?



And you figure this how exactly?



Show me where Obi-Wan was "getting the kicks in as much as Obi-Wan". Because, when I saw it, I saw Anakin whooping the Soresu master's ass with a flurry of melee attacks.

I've made the list. Obi-Wan tripped Anakin once. Anakin got at least seven more powerful and draining moves on Obi-Wan.

And in the middle of the fight, Obi-Wan was breathing hard while Anakin was fine. This isn't exactly an end all point, because you can argue it was a ploy by Obi-Wan to trick Anakin, but really - why was Obi-Wan doing everything in his power to get away from Anakin? He kept drawing the fight away, getting onto obstacles, and finally he was able to capture the high ground.

Also keep in mind he was facing an Anakin, who while was a more powerful incarnation, wasn't thinking clearly whatsoever, and let his arrogance get the best of him (which differs from Anakin in the beginning of the movie who was able to utilize his anger, and still keep relatively stable). Still though, if it was Anakin with all that - if they fought where Darth Maul first confronted Qui-Gon, I'd say Anakin would win, and it wouldn't last seven minutes.

Escape81
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I don't know where you stand on that lol

Go to the Mace vs. Yoda thread and read the most recent pages, lol.

Darth Sexy
I don't get it are you using Anakin's hot headed attitude for his downfall against obiwan or his cockiness? Perhaps that was the case or perhaps as it was stated, Obiwan knew Anakin best. And I counted 2-3 kicks for Obiwan and 4 for Anakin, I don't know where you got 7. The fight was a stalemate on fair ground Soma, although at the end it looked like Anakin was gettng the upper hand.. But he lost.

Motoko Sama
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I don't get it are you using Anakin's hot headed attitude for his downfall against obiwan or his cockiness? Perhaps that was the case or perhaps as it was stated, Obiwan knew Anakin best.

It was a multitude of things. His fall to the Darkside, his anger, Obi-Wan being his master, Obi-Wan being a defensive swordsman, among a few other things.



1.) Kicks him square in the chest.
2.) Dragon Sleeper.
3.) Dropkick.
4.) Another kick.
5.) Knocks Kenobi around.
6.) Yet another kick dead in the face.

Six actually, watch the clip on youtube.com or something.



I personally don't view the fight as such, but whatever. The way I view it was Obi-Wan prolonging the fight, and not doing much else. Anakin wasn't tiring, he was never put in a position that he could've actually been killed in (when he was lying on the table maybe, but since he was able to block it - I really don't consider it such). The only time Kenobi really did anything was when he dismembered Anakin, only after securing the high ground.

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