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I'll read this novelization in the morning but I do want to point out that the ambiguous email solved absolutely nothing, and if you used your common sense you would know that. Convenient things like the questions asked, the other responses that weren't in there, the fact that the email was only shown to have the text without knowing who it was being sent to or who sent it, etc. I'm not saying lightsnake is full of shit although he is a lot, I'm saying that the email is more convenient in terms of bullshit and not solving anything, so if we are to have this debate, there should be no bullshit emails involved considering the fact nobody knows if they are real or conclusive, and no ambiguous text such as "Most powerful" or "most powerful out of the most powerful. And no Escape, I don't ignore your rebuttals, I actually answer them, I ignore lightsnake.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'll read this novelization in the morning but I do want to point out that the ambiguous email solved absolutely nothing, and if you used your common sense you would know that. Convenient things like the questions asked, the other responses that weren't in there, the fact that the email was only shown to have the text without knowing who it was being sent to or who sent it, etc. I'm not saying lightsnake is full of shit although he is a lot, I'm saying that the email is more convenient in terms of bullshit and not solving anything, so if we are to have this debate, there should be no bullshit emails involved considering the fact nobody knows if they are real or conclusive, and no ambiguous text such as "Most powerful" or "most powerful out of the most powerful. And no Escape, I don't ignore your rebuttals, I actually answer them, I ignore lightsnake.

We'll soon see.

And, Sexy, read thoroughly, carefully, and completely. I am expecting a complete rebuttal and response.

1. You have to take into account that it is very possible that the EU is not even included in this debate, as it probably shouldn't be since the NEC is not an EU source, or at least I don't think so. And if it's not, then it doesn't matter.
2. I disagree with the fact that you think newer information necessarily takes precedent over older information.
3. Calling Ragnos THE Dark Lord, should also be considered as a testament of his power. If not that, at least the fact that HE crowned Exar Kun, and HE had the final say about Exar Kun on Korriban.
4. You are using absence of proof in the case of Ragnos not using the force storm. I can counter that saying Why did they need a force storm during their golden age?
5. Some of the roleplaying books or games state Ragnos' power, I'd have to get the source for you.
6. I have looked at the email and I am going to state again that it is completely ambiguous, and shows absolutely nothing about Palpatine being superior to Ragnos. Firstly Lightsnake conveniently shows only the text, not to who or from it was, regardless of whether it is real or not. Then he proceeds to say "Well I asked him these questions and he also told me this that and that which isn't in the email". In this case the emails are inconclusive and you don't seem like an idiot so you must see that..
7. I never stated that Sadow's amulet blasts were more impressive, I stated that his ability to destroy planets was equally as impressive as the Force storm, or maybe not.
8. Again, unsupported opinions. You can say Sidious didn't need amulets, I can say he didn't know how to create them or channel his abilities through them, like the ancient sith. I could also say the ancient sith were masters of sith alchemy and they were constantly experimenting with it, hence the amulets, which is also a logical assumption for why they were used, if not for the fact that in their time it was common. This isn't a blow to Palpatine nor the Ancient Sith.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I'll read this novelization in the morning

lmao
That is completely a TDTD comment.

Hmm... Darth Sexy..

Palpatine the greatest sith lord? I think it a little funny that Yoda, far weaker than kun,etc., had more control of Sidious's lightning than Sidious did.

Sidious becomes a lot more powerful in DE. Check this out, it's from the DE handbook:

Here also:

Yeah, right...Yoda weaker than Kun? Like the strongest Jedi master of the Golden Age would be weaker than Exar..

I think we can all ignore Tdtd, AKA Darth Sexy...they're obviously the same eprson...same insults, same writing style, same exact way of speaking, same idiocy.

He ignores the emails I posted and claims they didn't 'prove anything', when they most certainly clarified numerous points. Veitch confirmed Sidious's knowledge and in direct response to my asking who the strongest Sith was, Anderson said maybe if LFL did a comic pitting Exar vs. Palpatine, we'd find out.
We also know, that from the DE handbook, as Nebaris was kinda to scan, Palpatine's power is described as 'limitless'...we know more on the matter as his force drain was able to affect Byss on a global scale, not to mention his being able to empower Dark Side adepts with the force with a flick of his finger.

I'm also putting a stop to this 'Sadow clenched his fist and a star exploded' nonsense...this is from DLOTS, a reenactment in Vodo's holocron...when we are actually SHOWN the event, it is different. Sadow requires his ship and its 'electrical weapon'm, he doesn't 'clench his fist' and the star explodes...and in the young Jedi Knights series, BRAKISS manipulates stars and grows concerned and worried when asked if he could make the sun explode and says he hopes he never has to try.

And you know something, Sexy? You're trying to claim the NEC isn't a valid soruce? ACCORDING TO ITS AUTHOR, it's as valid as anything else, including books or comics...it's all C-canon. And dan was kind enough to post on this forum to clarify it.

Palpatine's rationality only plummeted due to the decaying state of his final clone, which included its mind. Prior to that in DE, he was himself. There is no In Universe source putting Ragnos above Palpatine, got that? Game stats are officially declared byt the Holocron database to be N-canon...same as gameplay.

Ooh, and no, sorry...it was said every Jedi held Palpatine's spirit into the dark side...every Jedi that ever lived. And Luke also said it would take the entire strength to stop Brakiss...and Hethrir...Kueller, too.

And no, Luke's as strong as DE Sidious by the end...what point of 'twin divinities' do you not understand? They were going at it evenly. It even said Luke won because he had Leia and more importantly her child to fight for.

Sorry, kiddo, but Palpatine's final force storm was said to have been the strongest and most terrifying usage of the darkside in galactic history. No debate

'I think we can all ignore Tdtd, AKA Darth Sexy...they're obviously the same eprson...same insults, same writing style, same exact way of speaking, same idiocy.'

And to add on to that, same arguments and same incredible amount of time spent on this forum.

Same exact arguments actually.

The thing is, it's definitely clear that he was once at this site under another username. He keeps in hinting it, such as 'Lightsnake you're just getting pwned like you did 4 months ago by IKC'. It's definitely clear that he is very much in favour of Ragnos. It's also definitely clear that he has some sort of problem with you. TDTD is the only person who it could possibly be. God I truly am smart for being the first person figure it all out and tell everyone, huh.

Yeah, it's amusing as hell how he claims he 'just got here' and knows what happened four months ago...when he said he couldn't even be bothered to reread a single thread for stuff I posted there.

I know. It seems he must have switched isp so Rex can't prove that Sexy=tdtd.

Yep. He's as determined to deny the truth as ever, too

I don't mind him being here, it's entertaining to see him attempt to debate. I mean all he does is copy other people's arguments.

even when the person he's copying dropped some of the arguments

I'm going to make it my personal goal to convince people that Sexy=TDTD.

Wow, so far you have a nutriding moron in Nebaris who hasn't offered a single useful thing in the past 2 days, which would make him a troll..

And then lightsnake who completely ignores this post, believing he's right without merit. Lightsnake, for you to be right dear, you have to have people backng you up. All you've done is made a fool out of yourself with ridiculous personal attacks in this thread. I realize you're very much into star wars and it hurts you to be wrong, but no need to get angry about it. Escape made this thread for you and Nai to post, and so far you have been useless. Nobody on here expects anything from Nebaris as he's clearly on here for comic relief. Now speak for yourself and shut up, because you clearly are dumb to be calling me "tdtd".

In the future, I'd recommend that you start quoting sections of my argument, like I do yours, that way it is easier to address specific issues.



Both you and Lightsnake and the comics confirmed that Ragnos ruled with an iron fist and pit his enemies against one another. If you are somehow implying that does not make him ruthless or power hungry, I would strongly suggest that you reconsider that opinion before you flunk World History or something similar.

Stalin and Hitler did the same thing. And they are considered to be the most brutal and evil men in recent history.



The comics that even mention Marka Ragnos state as much. And, I owe this point to you and Lightsnake, as you both helped to confirm it. So I am afraid that it is not moot.



Yes, but when one says "absence of proof isn't proof of absence" doesn't automatically imply that the proof is there, somewhere. It is an excuse, used more and more by people who cannot reinforce what they say in an argument. I urge you strongly against spouting out that phrase. And, furthermore, I never said - nor implied - that Ragnos was weak. Have I not agreed that he was the strongest of his day?



Mm-hmm. Now, quantify "tremendous power" in comparison to all the statements made about Emperor Palpatine's power or Exar Kun's power.



Yes, Palpatine was able to something similar, I recall, to his Dark Side adepts and Hands. Now, I wouldn't be able to tell you if it 'gave them the force' but, rather, upgraded their own Force abilities. Either way, I'll consent to the scepter.



Key phrase "Sith technology". What do you think the Sith Technology was in that instance? The ship. As well as his amulets.



You misunderstand. I always argued that the ship gave Sadow the power to do it, but that Sadow could trigger the process at will. Consider him the trigger to a very powerful gun.



Yes, it does. It means that they required these artifacts, as I have proven.



Because you can't argue that they didn't need them?

.

You misunderstand the point, once again.

You claimed that Ragnos and Sadow could do all of their own feats without any assistance from their artifacts, and yet you've never seen an instance in which they are performing these things without them.

By that logic, I can say that Palpatine personally possessed the ability to blow up planets or annihilate them at will, but had a logical excuse in that he didn't want to expose himself as a Force user and risk further rebellion.

Not done. Wait 'til I respond to all of it.

And I can also respond to Nai's argument when Ragnos as a GHOST physically damaged the head of Exar Kun and Uliq Qel Droma crowning them DLOTS and Apprentice respectfully.

Ooops my bad

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wow, so far you have a nutriding moron in Nebaris who hasn't offered a single useful thing in the past 2 days, which would make him a troll..

And then lightsnake who completely ignores this post, believing he's right without merit. Lightsnake, for you to be right dear, you have to have people backng you up. All you've done is made a fool out of yourself with ridiculous personal attacks in this thread. I realize you're very much into star wars and it hurts you to be wrong, but no need to get angry about it. Escape made this thread for you and Nai to post, and so far you have been useless. Nobody on here expects anything from Nebaris as he's clearly on here for comic relief. Now speak for yourself and shut up, because you clearly are dumb to be calling me "tdtd".

Escape seems to be backing LS up, TD. And I have posted useful things to this forum. My Sion theory was badass. You can find it here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t412163.html
Try disputing that b1tch.

Really?
#1. Stop calling me tdtd, youve already made a fool out of yourself
#2. For you to call someone a shitty debator, would mean you have to be a good one. And by the looks of it you're nothing more than an incessant nutrider, or just an angry little child.
#3. Wtf? Your Sion theory? Why in the hell would I care about your Sion theory? Are you looking for recognition for contributing one valid thing to this forum? Please look up the definiton of forum troll because you continue spewing out nonsense.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And I can also respond to Nai's argument when Ragnos as a GHOST physically damaged the head of Exar Kun and Uliq Qel Droma crowning them DLOTS and Apprentice respectfully.

Ooops my bad

It's also funny how you are completely copying the antediluvians - IKC, Illustrious and Nai in particular. Can't come up with your own arguments dumbass. Well don't worry about, not everyone's original.

Because the point is, the context of the situation implies personal power or Force power. Not political or militaristic. That goes without saying. We already know that Palpatine's Empire could kick the ass of Revan's Empire or Ragnos's Empire.

This is about Force power, in which the statements regarding Palpatine are not ambiguous or vague.



That's the ultimate point I am making.

Palpatine's raw power was so intense that it was literally destroying his own body. That is power.

We know that no other Sith Lord or Force user has had that much raw energy that it is literally killing them, which bodes well for Palpatine's raw power - which, once again - is considerable.



Yes. Palpatine demanded the answer to his salvation from the spirits of these Ancient Sith Lords. Who ultimately gave in and understood when he said 'the galaxy is mine'.

So, if the Ancient Sith (even their spirits) were automatically more powerful than he - why would they give into his request? Why not smite him down?

The point is. The Ancient Sith owns all theory, or 'the older the better' is completely moot.

Now, while it may still apply to Ragnos himself (this thread will determine) it does not apply to everyone who has been called an Ancient Sith.



Just as Kun and Ragnos were the strongest of their time.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
It's also funny how you are completely copying the antediluvians - IKC, Illustrious and Nai in particular. Can't come up with your own arguments dumbass. Well don't worry about, not everyone's original.

I realize you're probably the dumbest human being on this forum with the debating skills of a rabid wolverine, so I'm going to say this only once to you so you can avoid ridicule.

Reading Comprehension.. I credited the argument to NAI. I'm going to assume you are illiterate. Now when you bring something useful to this forum, you can respond, either way stay out and let me and Escape argue this and lightsnake when he gets out of his "i'm full of shit" stage.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Really?
#1. Stop calling me tdtd, youve already made a fool out of yourself
#2. For you to call someone a shitty debator, would mean you have to be a good one. And by the looks of it you're nothing more than an incessant nutrider, or just an angry little child.
#3. Wtf? Your Sion theory? Why in the hell would I care about your Sion theory? Are you looking for recognition for contributing one valid thing to this forum? Please look up the definiton of forum troll because you continue spewing out nonsense.

1. You are TD.
2. You are a shitty debater. You are just using the same arguments from the older, original more able members that were proven false months ago.
3. Well you said that I provided nothing for this forum. That proves you wrong. Oh yeah, and my theory was original. A word that you should maybe look up.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I realize you're probably the dumbest human being on this forum with the debating skills of a rabid wolverine, so I'm going to say this only once to you so you can avoid ridicule.

Reading Comprehension.. I credited the argument to NAI. I'm going to assume you are illiterate. Now when you bring something useful to this forum, you can respond, either way stay out and let me and Escape argue this and lightsnake when he gets out of his "i'm full of shit" stage.

As you wish TD. But just so you know, I wasn't referring to a particular argument when I called you unoriginal. I was referring to all of your arguments.

Originally posted by Escape81
Because the point is, the context of the situation implies personal power or Force power. Not political or militaristic. That goes without saying. We already know that Palpatine's Empire could kick the ass of Revan's Empire or Ragnos's Empire.

This is about Force power, in which the statements regarding Palpatine are not ambiguous or vague.



That's the ultimate point I am making.

Palpatine's raw power was so intense that it was literally destroying his own body. That is power.

We know that no other Sith Lord or Force user has had that much raw energy that it is literally killing them, which bodes well for Palpatine's raw power - which, once again - is considerable.



Yes. Palpatine demanded the answer to his salvation from the spirits of these Ancient Sith Lords. Who ultimately gave in and understood when he said 'the galaxy is mine'.

So, if the Ancient Sith (even their spirits) were automatically more powerful than he - why would they give into his request? Why not smite him down?

The point is. The Ancient Sith owns all theory, or 'the older the better' is completely moot.

Now, while it may still apply to Ragnos himself (this thread will determine) it does not apply to everyone who has been called an Ancient Sith.



Just as Kun and Ragnos were the strongest of their time.

Yea I know Palpatine demanded the answers, and they basically laughed at him and told him to shut up, while the other one said "Palpatine gave himself to the dark side a long time ago, let him have what he wants". I understand that part, why was it brought up?

I do not use "the older the better" theory with the ancient sith. Nor did I say it applied to everyone but Ragnos and Sadow. If you judge by their force abilities, or at least Sadows, you can logically deduce that he was indeed more powerful than at least Kun. I know you think it's illogical to speculate Ragnos' power based on Sadow, but you have to take into effect that an uber powerful force user maybe as good as Palpatine or better or worse, never attempted to dethrone Ragnos, even on his death bed.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
1. You are TD.
2. You are a shitty debater. You are just using the same arguments from the older, original more able members that were proven false months ago.
3. Well you said that I provided nothing for this forum. That proves you wrong. Oh yeah, and my theory was original. A word that you should maybe look up.


#1. Again with the ridicule.. You are humorous..
#2. A shitty nutriding troll has no business calling anyone a shitty "Debater". Debator rather, but very nice atempt.
#3. The fact that you needed to provide a useless and irrelevant topic to flex nuts says a lot about your personality and your personal life, so I suggest you stay off of the computer for an X amount of time, and get your shit in order.

The NEC is an EU source. It is the most-up-to-date reference tool of the Expanded Universe. Therefore, it is a source.



That's the ultimate point. The TotJ comics are no more important than the NEC.



He crowned Exar Kun, yes. He had the final say, yes.

Why?

Because Kun nor Uliq were "inherited" Dark Lords of the Sith. They weren't raised and trained in the Dark Side, so someone had to come in and explain the basics to them.

Ragnos.



You were the one who said that Ragnos probably suffered a few rebellions, and cut them down.



But be advised, you'll open up a can of worms. If the RPG books count for Ragnos, they will apply to Sidious as well.



I'm not going to get started on the subject of the emails. We've already argued before about it.



No, I'm pretty sure you said that. I'll look on both threads sometime today and see if I can fetch it.



Um . . .

We already have proven that Palpatine is a master of Sith alchemy and magics. We've already proven that he's trained several Dark Side adepts to be skilled in that art.

So, here's the kicker.

I do know that Palpatine didn't need amulets or items. Why? Well, firstly, he wasn't seen wearing any, and secondly - if he didn't have the knowledge to build them, that there proves that he didn't need them.



Like I said. You cannot say that Sadow could blast through walls without his amulets or make two stars go supernova without his ship. You have no proof for either, and common sense prevails that if he didn't need them, he wouldn't have used them.

No. They attempted to reprimand him. And then they gave in to his request.

If the Ancient Sith's spirits were WTFpowerful, they wouldn't have backed down to Palpatine. But they did and gave him what he wanted. Like I said, the Ancient Sith owns all theory is no longer a valid one.



Sadow isn't as powerful as Palpatine himself, like I said, considering how dependant he was on his own items.

People forget Marka wasn't the only sith Lord present at Exar's crowning...he was simply speaking for the others.

Also, Ludo Kressh and Naga Sadow may've needed a force storm in those fleet battles

So you're saying the amulets logically could NOT have been used to channel their power, maybe augment it, and maybe pass down the artifacts? Or the fact that during that time period everybody used certain artifacts to channel their force abilites? You're just going to diminish their abilities by saying "They needed this otherwise they wouldn't have use it". That could be a logical assumption but so could mine. Now let me ask you something, if they DIDNT have any of these objects or tools, how would anything get passed out over the millennia? How would Kun have been in power, how would Revan, Malak, Bane, Nadd? We could argue the validity of their weapons all day. And I WILL argue that Sadow clenched his fist without touching anything, and the star blew up, that scan is clear as day in the beginning of DLOTS, so I think I'm safe with that one

Also, where does it say that Palpatine was a master of sith alchemy? Maybe he was, but the ancient sith were actually CALLED masters of Sith alchemist, especially Sadow who learned from the best alchemist in Simus..

Originally posted by Escape81
No. They attempted to reprimand him. And then they gave in to his request.

If the Ancient Sith's spirits were WTFpowerful, they wouldn't have backed down to Palpatine. But they did and gave him what he wanted. Like I said, the Ancient Sith owns all theory is no longer a valid one.



Sadow isn't as powerful as Palpatine himself, like I said, considering how dependant he was on his own items.


What do you mean backed down to Palpatine? Why are you elevating his status again? What did they have to gain or lose by backing down from him or GIVING him what he wants? What are they going to do, flex NUTS as spirits, or shut up a whiney insane sith lord? No I'm afraid that argument won't work bro.
And again you're saying Palpatine is more powerful because he didn't use anything. And I'm saying in that time frame the ancient sith were alchemists and they poured their sith ALCHEMY into talisman, beasts, amulets. That in NO way diminishes their power, that isn't a valid argument.

Prove that Simus was an alchemist. And Palpatine created Imperial Sentinels and the Chrysalids with Sith Alchemy.

Would you up about that scan in DLOTS? IT's contradicted by Golden Age...maybe you want to forget that Sadow's HUMAN in DLOTS?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove that Simus was an alchemist. And Palpatine created Imperial Sentinels and the Chrysalids with Sith Alchemy.

Would you up about that scan in DLOTS? IT's contradicted by Golden Age...maybe you want to forget that Sadow's HUMAN in DLOTS?


LOL Now youre playing the ignorance card again? Because they make Sadow look human then everything is bullshit? Are you just conceding this argument lightsnake or what? If you are just say so, please don't play dumb. I can also say "the most powerful sith lord in history got donkey stomped by less powerful people and a woman" which would contradict his power..

Prove that Simus was an alchemist? "Through Sith Magic he was able to live as a head". Sadow was a master alchemist as seen through Exar Kun in DLOTS and Simus was his master, it is quite logical to assume that Simus was a sith alchemist as well, unless you plead ignorance.

This is where you are lacking comprehension.

You have confirmed that they may have used these amulets to augment or channel their power. You need to go to dictionary.com and learn the meaning of these two terms before you argue anything else about it.

When you use augmentation, you use something to make your own abilities greater.

I will not repeat myself. If they had to do it to augment themselves, it means that they could not replicate those feats without their items.




He was. Read Dark Empire again. He used Sith alchemy to train various Dark Side adepts, to create those massive warbeasts, and he often used Sith magic during executions. Such as Bevel Lemelisk.

Admittedly, I didn't read this, but: http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=43&page=20

The same quote on Red Guards! The best of the best!

It's bullshit because we see a reenactment in DLOTS from the holocron...the real event that we see happening in FOTSE is different, aand as we SEE the event happen in real time...

And sorry, prove Simus was a Sith alchemist. I want proof now. He used Sith magic, so did most other Sith...Dathka Graush used Sith magic to survive without his heart, so?

Wrong. I don't think you want to play the cynic card, because we have more ammo in that department than you do.

Sidious was stopped by the Force attunement of three Skywalkers. That is more Force attunement than Sidious, Ragnos, Sadow, and any other person you can think of - unless you can give me the name of someone who is stronger in the Force than a Skywalker.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's bullshit because we see a reenactment in DLOTS from the holocron...the real event that we see happening in FOTSE is different, aand as we SEE the event happen in real time...

And sorry, prove Simus was a Sith alchemist. I want proof now. He used Sith magic, so did most other Sith...Dathka Graush used Sith magic to survive without his heart, so?


Logical deduction.. Sadow was a master alchemist, Simus was his master.. It is logical enough.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Logical deduction.. Sadow was a master alchemist, Simus was his master.. It is logical enough.

Your use of the phrase logical deduction is always used as in the context of a shield. . .

Originally posted by Escape81
Wrong. I don't think you want to play the cynic card, because we have more ammo in that department than you do.

Sidious was stopped by the Force attunement of three Skywalkers. That is more Force attunement than Sidious, Ragnos, Sadow, and any other person you can think of - unless you can give me the name of someone who is stronger in the Force than a Skywalker.


The force attunement of a skywalker? I didn't know you were going to pull out the skywalker card. That would only work when the skywalkers were as strong as Sidious, which was not the case considering DE Sidious was beyond any of them. I can as well say Palpatine was a madman and he didn't foresee his death, just like in ROTJ..

And I am fully aware of what augment means. But you're saying without it they couldn't do it, when they could be just as good as everybody else, and are better WITH the augmenting. Just like Barry Bonds would probably be just as good as the best of them, but on roids he's the shit. And again do you not accept the concept as valid when I say they used amulets to channel their abilities for one of MANY reasons I have previously stated?

Ludo verbally assaults Sadow over his experiments and Simus is never blamed...in fact, Ludo respects Simus as much as the others it seems. Sadow was a radical, what proves Simus was an alchemist?

Oh, and Luke, Leia and Anakin? Tapped into the entirety of the Light Side...became as luminous beings of pure light...and they didn't attack Sidious, they 'shielded him from the Darkside.'

Originally posted by Escape81
Your use of the phrase logical deduction is always used as in the context of a shield. . .

Um ok? That maybe so, but why don't you use it in this case. Again.. Sadow was a master alchemist, his master was Simus. It is more logical to assume Simus was an alchemist as well. Shield or not, logical deduction works here.

Dooku favored Makashi...does that mean Yoda did?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ludo verbally assaults Sadow over his experiments and Simus is never blamed...in fact, Ludo respects Simus as much as the others it seems. Sadow was a radical, what proves Simus was an alchemist?

Oh, and Luke, Leia and Anakin? Tapped into the entirety of the Light Side...became as luminous beings of pure light...and they didn't attack Sidious, they 'shielded him from the Darkside.'

You can pull out the Skywalker and "potential" and "Midicholorian" card out all day, but I fail to see how the madman couldn't fight a better than average Jedi, and a woman using elementary battle meditation.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Dooku favored Makashi...does that mean Yoda did?

No, that just means Yoda knew Makashi as well since he TAUGHT it to Dooku. That actually supports my argument.

No. If one of the Skywalkers were stronger than him, it wouldn't have taken two of them to bring him down. Luke, Leia, and Anakin combined their own Force attunement (connection) into an assault known as "Luminous Beings".

When that occured, for a split second, they managed to isolate Palpatine from the Force. That didn't kill him. What did is when that happened, he lost control of his Force Storm, which destroyed him and his ship.



Unfortunately, we've seen Barry Bonds play without steroids before. We haven't seen Sadow without his amulets. Note it well. You confirmed that it may have augmented or channeled their power. That means that it made their power greater.

Which means without the amulets, there would have been no crazy bursts. Without the ship, no supernova stars.

Hm, where was it said Yoda taught Dooku Makashi? Yoda couldn't really use much else besides Ataru

No, that DOESNT mean without the amulets there would have been nothing of what you describe, unless you are willing to quantify their power with and without the amulets. That's like saying "Well Exar Kun would have been a weakling without the amulets". An argument like that doesn't exist since we've never seen it, so it is an invalid argument saying "They were weaker without it" or "They couldn't do it without it".

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You can pull out the Skywalker and "potential" and "Midicholorian" card out all day, but I fail to see how the madman couldn't fight a better than average Jedi, and a woman using elementary battle meditation.

If I may use your phrase:

Logical deduction indicates that it was their combined Force "connection" that ultimately saved them, as neither one were as powerful as Palpatine alone.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Hm, where was it said Yoda taught Dooku Makashi? Yoda couldn't really use much else besides Ataru

Considering Yoda was Dooku's master I believe? What, Dooku learned Makashi by himself? Lol.. And Yoda did know all the saber forms, including Vaapad I think.. Doesn't mean he had to use them.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, that DOESNT mean without the amulets there would have been nothing of what you describe, unless you are willing to quantify their power with and without the amulets. That's like saying "Well Exar Kun would have been a weakling without the amulets". An argument like that doesn't exist since we've never seen it, so it is an invalid argument saying "They were weaker without it" or "They couldn't do it without it".

Wrong, it is a completely valid argument because we know that they never did these things without the amulets. Never. Not once. Not a single time.

Your argument is moot.

WRONG, then you would be saying Exar Kun is a nobody because he used his amulet and sith teachings. Your argument is moot because you're trying to use absence of PROOF as validity to support your argument, thinking the fact that they didn't do it meant they can't, is more logical than they didn't do it for other reasons.

There is nothing saying Yoda ever used or knew Vaapad as only three Jedi ever mastered it. And yeah, Dooku devoted himself to Makashi, NOTHING says Yoda taught it to him.

Luke knows Electric Judgement...did Yoda teach it to him?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
WRONG, then you would be saying Exar Kun is a nobody because he used his amulet and sith teachings. Your argument is moot because you're trying to use absence of PROOF as validity to support your argument, thinking the fact that they didn't do it meant they can't, is more logical than they didn't do it for other reasons.

No. I am saying that Kun (like Sadow) couldn't have created the blasts without the amulets. Doesn't make him a nobody, as Kun has done more impressive things than just blast through walls.

As I told you before, the "absence of proof is not proof of absence" isn't a shield in an argument. Just because you say that doesn't mean that my supported opinion doesn't unravel. It in fact, confirms that you have no proof (ie: absence of proof)

Fact: Kun nor Sadow were ever seen blasting through walls without the amulets.

Fact: Sith Lords were still ruthless then. Why would Sadow create artifacts that, in another's hand, could ultimately be a weapon for his enemy?

Fact: Why would Sadow create these items, if he did not need them in the first place.

Fact: If he wanted future generations to have them, what's that mean? He still used them in combat, and wasn't seen replicating the same feats without them.

Uh, Luke invented his own instakill, this is evident, please don't play dumb. WHERE did Dooku learn Makashi if not for his master? Now you're just being purposely ignorant to further your argument. Dooku didn't magically pop out and learn Makashi based on a holocron.

Originally posted by Escape81
No. I am saying that Kun (like Sadow) couldn't have created the blasts without the amulets. Doesn't make him a nobody, as Kun has done more impressive things than just blast through walls.

As I told you before, the "absence of proof is not proof of absence" isn't a shield in an argument. Just because you say that doesn't mean that my supported opinion doesn't unravel. It in fact, confirms that you have no proof (ie: absence of proof)

Fact: Kun nor Sadow were ever seen blasting through walls without the amulets.

Fact: Sith Lords were still ruthless then. Why would Sadow create artifacts that, in another's hand, could ultimately be a weapon for his enemy?

Fact: Why would Sadow create these items, if he did not need them in the first place.

Fact: If he wanted future generations to have them, what's that mean? He still used them in combat, and wasn't seen replicating the same feats without them.

Absence of proof is not a shield, but you claim I don't have an argument while you are using that exact argument to try to prove your point..

I understand the amulet blasts through walls because it channels your hate exponentially through the amulet, hence my point about the amulet channeling and augmenting your abilities, which is fine. You'll never see Palpatine blasting through walls either...

You are saying the didn't create amulets and talismans to be passed down? Weird, what did we see in the fight between Kun and Qel Droma? Oh yes, the long dead spirit of Ragnos coming back, explaining them the past, etc... So again it is very logical to assume those items were used to pass down as I have provided proof.

Dooku was a radical student...why would it be hard to learn Makashi froma temple instructor? Or develop it on his own? Show me ONE SOURCE saying where Yoda taught Dooku Makashi.

Show me ONE source where it said Dooku learned from somebody else? Again, logical deduction works in this case as opposed to purpose ignorance.. Yoda was Dooku's instructor, it is VERY logical to assume he learned from him. You using ignorance purposely in this case just destroys your argument.

You don't have an argument. You yourself said "absence of proof is not proof of absence". You have no proof, so therefore, you rely on this as an excuse.

It doesn't work.



That is my point. When something channels or augments, that means it focuses it and makes it stronger. Meaning that without the object that augments it, you couldn't perform the trait.

Perfect example.

Lasers can cut through diamond, the hardest substance on the planet. But what are lasers? Just light. Light that is augmented and focused. But if you plop a diamond out in the middle of your yard in the hottest, most brightest day - nothing is going to happen.

Point: Light can't cut through diamond unless it is focused and augmented by a machine.

Point: Sadow can't blast through walls unless he's focused and augmented by his amulets.



I never said that he could do it in the first place. Poor argument.



You miss the point.

Even if they did, it still doesn't excuse the fact that Sadow actively used these items in combat.

Except Yoda says Dooku was always his most frustrating and difficult student. We know Dooku was a radical and nothing ever mentions Yoda used Makashi...Yoda is PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE of using anything but Ataru

You are right but YOU were saying they were using these amulets and what not because they were either weak or couldn't perform certain feats. Again I will remind you that Ragnos marked Kun and Qel Droma as a 1,000 year old spirit..
And IM saying that whether they COULD or COULDNT perform those feats, meaning it could go either way meaning there's no conclusive evidence on either except absence of proof, they used those amulets as multipurpose tools. Items that could use the force and be passed down. You can't tell me that my argument is wrong because it's assumption is just as valid.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Except Yoda says Dooku was always his most frustrating and difficult student. We know Dooku was a radical and nothing ever mentions Yoda used Makashi...Yoda is PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE of using anything but Ataru

More excuses
#1. Prove Yoda was physically incapable, considering he knew all of the forms except obviously vaapad.
#2. Calling dooku frustrating and what not doesn't warrant the fact that Yoda most obviously taught him Makashi, and is a weak excuse for a poor argument.
#3. Regardless if Dooku was frustrating, he was still Yoda's student and didn't join the sith til after Qui Gon's death..

Please provide a better argument.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You are right but YOU were saying they were using these amulets and what not because they were either weak or couldn't perform certain feats. Again I will remind you that Ragnos marked Kun and Qel Droma as a 1,000 year old spirit..
And IM saying that whether they COULD or COULDNT perform those feats, meaning it could go either way meaning there's no conclusive evidence on either except absence of proof, they used those amulets as multipurpose tools. Items that could use the force and be passed down. You can't tell me that my argument is wrong because it's assumption is just as valid.

I can tell you, which you've confirmed, is that I have more proof backing me than what you do. You only have your "absence of proof".

Like I told you before about the laser anology. Without the machine that focuses and augments the it, light itself cannot burn through diamond, the hardest substance on Earth.

Hell, even when light can burn grass - it requires extremely dry circumstances - or a magnifying glass, which provides the same anology. A magnifying glass in a hot day can be used to burn grass. But it is because the glass itself magnifies the sun's own energy.

Are you understanding?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
More excuses
#1. Prove Yoda was physically incapable, considering he knew all of the forms except obviously vaapad.
#2. Calling dooku frustrating and what not doesn't warrant the fact that Yoda most obviously taught him Makashi, and is a weak excuse for a poor argument.
#3. Regardless if Dooku was frustrating, he was still Yoda's student and didn't join the sith til after Qui Gon's death..

Please provide a better argument.

I'd like to interrupt by saying "knowing" something and "using" it is all together two fundamentally different things.

Ok escape and lightsnake, I need to go do some things for the start of fall semester so we can continue this later. Please keep the trolls like Nebaris out and if you guys want to discuss this privately, IM me on my aim in my profile, I'll be back later..

1. Find me one source saying he did. yoda's always been an ataru user. Mace, in the ROTS novelization said Yoda needed to use Ataru to compensate for his age and size...Yoda's POV in Dark Rendevous mentions Dooku always being willful and learning things outside from him...
2. Dooku wasn't Yoda's student anymroe when Qui-Gon died...by about fifty years

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
The thing is, it's definitely clear that he was once at this site under another username. He keeps in hinting it, such as 'Lightsnake you're just getting pwned like you did 4 months ago by IKC'. It's definitely clear that he is very much in favour of Ragnos. It's also definitely clear that he has some sort of problem with you. TDTD is the only person who it could possibly be. God I truly am smart for being the first person figure it all out and tell everyone, huh.

Don't get cocky. Generic Hero was the first to voice his opinion about it, and I've already had the situation taken care of.

Back off.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Find me one source saying he did. yoda's always been an ataru user. Mace, in the ROTS novelization said Yoda needed to use Ataru to compensate for his age and size...Yoda's POV in Dark Rendevous mentions Dooku always being willful and learning things outside from him...
2. Dooku wasn't Yoda's student anymroe when Qui-Gon died...by about fifty years

1. So Yoda was teaching Ataru to all the younglings? There's a difference between teaching a form and using a form for yourself lightsnake, you out of all people should know that.
Mace saying what Yoda used is irrelevant to the fact that Yoda can steal teach forms.

2. You're always asking for a specific source when you are wrong in an argument or offer a weak argument. And I'm using logical deduction in the case that Yoda was Dooku's master, Dooku learned Makashi from Yoda. Unless you can provide BETTER Logic or evidence, this makes more sense.. Anyways I will be back later.

Originally posted by Escape81
Don't get cocky. Generic Hero was the first to voice his opinion about it, and I've already had the situation taken care of.

Back off.

Thank you.. You guys can really IM me on aim, maybe we can take care of this argument privately so I don't have to waste too much time on here..

1. No, that's basic 'move your saber here, reach out with your feelings' stuff...he wasn't teaching them how to fight, he was teaching them to use the Force

2. Dark rendevous states Dooku was always outside of Yoda;s guidance and elarning things aside from him. That';s all the proof I need. Your turn. One source...oh, and logical fallacy, proving a negative, tsk a tsk!

#1. I didn't ask you to prove a negative, I asked you to prove what other person could Dooku have learned it from. Nice reading..
#2. You're providing irrelevant text to cover your poor reasoning.
#3. Dooku was Yoda's student, so unless you can prove WHERE Dooku learned his form, it's more logical to assume it was from Yoda, his MASTER.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Except Yoda says Dooku was always his most frustrating and difficult student. We know Dooku was a radical and nothing ever mentions Yoda used Makashi...Yoda is PHYSICALLY INCAPABLE of using anything but Ataru
I remember somewhere saying Yoda was a master of every lightsaber form.

In fact he is teaching children shii cho in AOTC.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
I remember somewhere saying Yoda was a master of every lightsaber form.


Everything except Vaapad I believe. Either way it's very logical to assume Dooku learned from Yoda since Yoda was Dooku's master and unless Dooku had another master "no proof", this stands.

No, you told me to prove Dooku didn't learn Makashi from Yoda...it's an order of ten thousand Jedi with dozens of saber instructors and even more holocrons.

No, actually, that text shows Yoda didn;t teach Dooku everything Dooku knows and Dooku was a radical student.

Yoda's stated to only use Ataru. There's nothing ever saying he uses other forms, let alone teach Dooku an archaic one...

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, you told me to prove Dooku didn't learn Makashi from Yoda...it's an order of ten thousand Jedi with dozens of saber instructors and even more holocrons.

No, actually, that text shows Yoda didn;t teach Dooku everything Dooku knows and Dooku was a radical student.

Yoda's stated to only use Ataru. There's nothing ever saying he uses other forms, let alone teach Dooku an archaic one...


1. Yoda uses Ataru but knows 6 of the 7 forms
2. Yoda was Dooku's master
3. You have no proof Dooku trained from anybody else
4. Logical deduction points to Yoda.

1. Prove it.
2. Actually, Thame Cerulian was Dooku's real master.
3. Thame Cerulian. Dooku was his Padawan first.
4. Dooku also received training from holocrons he and Lorian Nod looked at, Yoda and Thame Cerulian...he considered Dooku his real master, but dooku was the padawan and official student of Master Cerulian

That's accordin to LEgacy of the Jedi, the chronology and Dark Rendevous

It says in the AOTC that Dooku saluted Yoda in a salute Yoda remembered teaching him 50 years ago.

1. Prove what forms this guy knew
2. All of a sudden you are ignorant in terms of the abilities of Yoda, because it destroys your argument? So I have to deal with your ignorance and prove Yoda knew 6 out of the 7 saber forms? Wow lightsnake I expected more.
3. How long was Dooku apprenticed to the other person?
4. Logical deduction still points to Yoda, sorry.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
It says in the AOTC that Dooku saluted Yoda in a salute Yoda remembered teaching him 50 years ago.

Yoda did teach Dooku, but Thame was his first master.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
It says in the AOTC that Dooku saluted Yoda in a salute Yoda remembered teaching him 50 years ago.

So it's fair to assume Yoda trained him for half of his life, there you go lightsnake.

Yoda did teach him, but Dooku was Thame's Padawan...in THREE sources, Thame is a famed council member who took Dooku as his padawan...and according to Legacy of the Jedi, instructed Dooku in the art of saber fighting! And dooku was apprenticed to Thame until his twenties, with Yoda taking an interest and helping Dooku in his studies. Dooku considered Yoda his true master

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So it's fair to assume Yoda trained him for half of his life, there you go lightsnake.


Logical deduction wins in this case lightsnake. And unless you have sources on this Thame guy and his lightsaber forms, this should be conclusive enough for you.

Thame is stated to have taught Dooku how to duel and he was Dooku's master!
You lose!

Haven't shown us any quotes or proof nor the ability to use logical deduction. You Lose! Come back when you learn to argue

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So it's fair to assume Yoda trained him for half of his life, there you go lightsnake.

Which proves Yoda taught Dooku Makashi.

Not conclusively, but logically. Lightsnake is in his usual denial.

Hey, moron: In Legacy of the Jedi, it states Thame Cerulian taught Dooku how to duel.

Dooku became a knight in his twenties...until then he was Thame Cerulian's padawan. Dude, you've LOST, just shut up! I have a quote saying Thame taught Dooku how to duel, you have NOTHING

DS, if you're not going to get to work on your semester crap, and you just wanna argue with Lightsnake and flaunt your supposed superiority, then get to work on my arguments.

Yea, you have a quote, yet you can't post it. Just like your emails are 100% accurate right? You lost Lightsnake, quit living in denial. If you can't argue, then don't post, but please stop crying and get over the defeat.

It's a bit hard to 'post' a book, pal. It's in Legacy of the Jedi, when Dooku is a Padawan with Lorian Nod. Find it, read it. Or don't it's not my concern because I have facts backing me up, you have nothing, Tdtd

Lightsnake=Pwned

No proof
Denial
childish and unwarranted insults..
Way to go lightsnake!

LEgacy of the Jedi, all the proof I need

DS, LS, quit acting childish.

DS - LS has proven that Thame Cerulian was his master. Get over it. Now, if you're not going to work on your fall semester crap, and keep saying how you pwnt Lightsnake, get to work on my arguments.

He proved it? I didn't know we had to take his word for it. And I've shown that Yoda was his true master, and trained him for over half of Dooku's life.. There we go, logical deduction>denial and speculation.

What are you blathering about? I ahve a source saying who taught Dooku how to use a saber, so you lose

Oh yea which arguments

This "Yoda taught Dooku Makashi" Nonsense

One source saying Yoda knew six forms, just one

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What are you blathering about? I ahve a source saying who taught Dooku how to use a saber, so you lose


Yea and I have a source saying Marka Ragnos was better than everybody, but I can't show it to you, you lose!

See how ridiculous you sound? You have no proof that Thame or whatever his name is taught him how to use Makashi.. Yoda is more logical, sorry if you can't accept it, you lose.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
This "Yoda taught Dooku Makashi" Nonsense

One source saying Yoda knew six forms, just one

It's mind boggling how you never have the need to show anyone these incredible sources, but as long as YOU think they exist then I lose right? awesome lightsnake.

What's the name of this Source? I've posted the name of mine. Thame wa Dooku's official master who taught him to fight:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0439536669/102-2187094-2692933?v=glance&n=283155

Here. Read it.

But but lightsnake, you just said he taught him Makashi? Be consistent with your bullshit. Yoda trained Dooku for 50 years, while it is known how long his first master trained him or what he even trained him with, therefore you lose.

He...trained him for 50 years? Proof. Dooku was a padawan until his early twenties.
Moreover, it's directly stated he was Thame's padawan until he was in his early twenties at which point, he was knighted...are you just not getting it?
Show me a SINGLE BOOK or source that backs you up

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
It says in the AOTC that Dooku saluted Yoda in a salute Yoda remembered teaching him 50 years ago.


I can just take quotes from people that just saw AOTC.. This is more proof than you can provide.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
I remember somewhere saying Yoda was a master of every lightsaber form.

In fact he is teaching children shii cho in AOTC.

I want the source.

And he's teaching the children to reac out with their feelings and use the force

Apparently he was teaching them that form, so you lose. I suggest you watch AOTC and come back.

Where's Yoda teaching them saber use? He's doing the exact same thing Obi-wan did with Luke: AKA, teaching them to use the force to guide them

Have you SEEN AOTC? Take a breather from this forum and pop it in.

Yep, he's teaching them to use the force to guide them. Saber forms were developed after AOTC

Really? Watch AOTC.. Like now.

Yep, he's teaching them to stretch out with their feelings, says so in the AOTC novel too, I'm rather sure

here go yo lightsnake..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat


Read where Shi Co was seen.. Thanks

That should shut you up about Yoda knowing 6 forms also.

Who said it wasn't Shii-Cho? Point is, Yoda's not teaching it to them, e's showing how to reach out with their feelings.

Nothing about yoda knowing six forms either

So this is how your argument dies.. First Yoda knows only 1 form, then Yoda is NOT cleary teaching them a second form which is specifically stated.. So this means Yoda already knows 2 forms which destroys your argument completely..
And I'm glad that your word>Attack of the Clones..

If they call it Shii Cho you can argue with facts all you want, but you would still lose..

Oh here's another lnk about Yoda not knowing the saber forms..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber

Where is it specifically stated? Just says he's teaching them to deflect blaster bolts and the AOTC novelization wrecks your argument.

I STILL want proof of Yoda knowing six forms.

have LOTJ on my pc. LS is right. Thrace taught him Makashi.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where is it specifically stated? Just says he's teaching them to deflect blaster bolts and the AOTC novelization wrecks your argument.

I STILL want proof of Yoda knowing six forms.

LOL it destroys my argument? I just gave you 2 links, now all of a sudden they aren't definitive enough for you.. They said Yoda is teaching Shii Cho so he is. The fact that you would argue with facts and not concede defeat is hilarious lightsnake. Your argument is over..

No, they didn't. They said Yoda is showing them to deflect blaster bolts. That doesn't equal Shii-Cho. I trust the AOTC novelization over a wiki

LOL because that's the only thing that helps your argument lightsnake. But I gave you two links, you can call them canon or not, it is widely stated that Yoda knows all the forms, I'm sure that exists in your little Sourcebook or NEC or whatever. You lose lightsnake, give it up and get back on topic of Ragnos.

I want where it's widely stated, liar. Same as where Ragnos died of old age

Read your source books, read the links, and quit whining, you lost. The Ragnos old age thing will be solved soon as Anderzone emailed me back saying he will get Kevin Anderson to email me because he is busy right now.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where is it specifically stated? Just says he's teaching them to deflect blaster bolts and the AOTC novelization wrecks your argument.

I STILL want proof of Yoda knowing six forms.

Dont you think it's a little odd that a 900 year old Jedi Master only knows one form of lightsaber combat. Shii Cho is the first form of combat padwans learn so that proves he knew at least two.

You know how long I waited for Kevin to send his answers to me, you immature brat? Over a month. Anderzone told me 'sorry for the wait, Kevin was busy', that's it...how does that translate to 'not written by KJA?' Give me the name of a source, you little brat. I've given you the names of mine

It was SIGNED by Kevin, I kept checking back with them and they told me he got my questions. You know something, Tdtd? the hell with you. You're immature and a troll. You ride the coattails of people smarter than you and your main debate style consists of ad hominem. I've actually cited things published by LFL, I've read my soruces and I'm asking you TO PROVE THE **** UP. I'm telling you right here and now:

You give me the names of these sources, just the NAMES and I'll read them myself, or you forfeit right now. Sudden death, you don't get away from this. You tell me EXACTLY what I want or you concede this debate.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Dont you think it's a little odd that a 900 year old Jedi Master only knows one form of lightsaber combat. Shii Cho is the first form of combat padwans learn so that proves he knew at least two.

Amen

I never said Yoda knows only one form, I'm challenging the assertion he knew six

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You know how long I waited for Kevin to send his answers to me, you immature brat? Over a month. Anderzone told me 'sorry for the wait, Kevin was busy', that's it...how does that translate to 'not written by KJA?' Give me the name of a source, you little brat. I've given you the names of mine

It was SIGNED by Kevin, I kept checking back with them and they told me he got my questions. You know something, Tdtd? the hell with you. You're immature and a troll. You ride the coattails of people smarter than you and your main debate style consists of ad hominem. I've actually cited things published by LFL, I've read my soruces and I'm asking you TO PROVE THE **** UP. I'm telling you right here and now:

You give me the names of these sources, just the NAMES and I'll read them myself, or you forfeit right now. Sudden death, you don't get away from this. You tell me EXACTLY what I want or you concede this debate.


Who do you keep calling immature when its you who is the one constantly crying. Been Projecting much lightsnake?

Stop complaining ok? Your emails mean nothing to me, you have just the text showing, and then want people to take your word for the questions you asked, and the other answers given to you NOT in the email. You must live in your own little fantasy world, seeing as how once you lose an argument, I'm suddenly tdtd, riding smarter people's arguments(obviously not you since I wouldn't call you intelligent), and am a troll all of a sudden. Well lightsnake, I suggest you consult the Myriam-Webster's dictionary before spewing off vocabulary you have no concept of. I have already proven my case and you have made a fool of yourself constantly, now if you have nothing to add, shut up and let me and escape get back on topic, as you're becoming too much of a childish nuisance on this forum... "Troll".

Both of you need to calm down.

Darth Sexy, get to my arguments or leave. You're acting as immature as Lightsnake is and only wish to piss him off.

Lightsnake, I understand you getting angry at him, but you're being as immature as he is and it isn't helping my debate at all with him. Especially if he gets locked in a petty argument with you instead of handling my debate, which is what I ultimately want.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I never said Yoda knows only one form, I'm challenging the assertion he knew six

He was the lightsaber instructor of the entire Order. He knew every form except vaapad but he was a master of juyo.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, you told me to prove Dooku didn't learn Makashi from Yoda...it's an order of ten thousand Jedi with dozens of saber instructors and even more holocrons.

No, actually, that text shows Yoda didn;t teach Dooku everything Dooku knows and Dooku was a radical student.

Yoda's stated to only use Ataru. There's nothing ever saying he uses other forms, let alone teach Dooku an archaic one...

That's where you stated he only used or knew one form, jackass.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
He was the entire lightsaber instructor of the Order. He knew every form except vaapad but he was a master of juyo.

indeed

No, he wasn't. He was an ataru master and aside from training the younglins, when was he the saber trainer? Sora Bulq, Cin Drallig...do they not exist?

Originally posted by Escape81
Both of you need to calm down.

Darth Sexy, get to my arguments or leave. You're acting as immature as Lightsnake is and only wish to piss him off.

Lightsnake, I understand you getting angry at him, but you're being as immature as he is and it isn't helping my debate at all with him. Especially if he gets locked in a petty argument with you instead of handling my debate, which is what I ultimately want.

escape, do you have aim or ICQ? I can multi task very well but I have extreme a.d.d to the point where if lightsnake throws around weak arguments, I have to answer them. Give me your ICQ and I will try to answer your questions as much as I can.

Escape, mind just telling him exactly who Illustrious is?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, he wasn't. He was an ataru master and aside from training the younglins, when was he the saber trainer? Sora Bulq, Cin Drallig...do they not exist?


How many times are you going to contradict yourself lightsnake, just shut up already on this point, you lost it, get back to Ragnos.

You know something, sexy, mlt's leave this board behind...you want to really debate, bring it on AIM at Debnath
I challenge you

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
escape, do you have aim or ICQ? I can multi task very well but I have extreme a.d.d to the point where if lightsnake throws around weak arguments, I have to answer them. Give me your ICQ and I will try to answer your questions as much as I can.

I can wait until you're done. Just get going.

And, Lightsnake, I've already confirmed Illustrious's identity a minute or so ago on another thread.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
That's where you stated he only used or knew one form, jackass.

Would you please be quiet about it?

He said that Yoda doesn't use more than one form. Not that he didn't know any others.