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Whos the stronger force?

Thats a real toughy. Cause I'm not sure Nemesis is as strong as her original incarnation. And which version of Phoenix, which era.

Nevermind. I stopped reading xmen because of the stupid phoenix bs. I don't care.

lets say original Nemesis because the incarnation was taken care of alot easier then it should have been

Id say Phoenix loses

Originally posted by bbrem123
Id say Phoenix loses

But then that would just be based on how Thanos was presented when he had the IG, nothing conclusive. When you look at the facts though, the IG merely taps into the energies of 616. For Jean to be able to hold 616 in the palm of her hand and casually manipulate its totality on a sub atomic level then shes most certainly packing more juice than the IG.

true but it has been stated that no omniscient being has controlled all of the gems

so thanos would not be able to wield the gauntlet to it fullest potential

but the Nemesis can

Originally posted by bbrem123
true but it has been stated that no omnisent being has controled all of the gems

so thanos would not be able to wield the gauntlet to it fullest potential

but the Nemesis can

And yet the gems still derive power from 616. They are conduits for the power contained within 616. Thats less power than the Phoenix Force. She accidentally fatally wounded the universe by snipping away its future as she considered it undesirable. Jean then had that universe which the IG gives you mastery of in the palm of her hand and manipulated it like putty. Theres just no comparison.

The Infinity gems are representations of the power the original Infinity Being had. Think about it, just cause you had a couple of crumbs of coffee cake doesn't make you full, now does it. Its a representation of the original power. Ie. model car vs real car. And here's the kicker, i will never be able to prove it WAS, you'll never be able to provie it WASN'T. bwahahahhahahhaha

try to define something that has never really been defined.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And yet the gems still derive power from 616. They are conduits for the power contained within 616. Thats less power than the Phoenix Force. She accidentally fatally wounded the universe by snipping away its future as she considered it undesirable. Jean then had that universe which the IG gives you mastery of in the palm of her hand and manipulated it like putty. Theres just no comparison.

the power of the IG does not only pertain to the 616 universe...the magus created a replica of the 616 universe and was goin to merge them...he did that with 5 cosmic cubes...and that power is not even comparable to that of the Infinity Being

Originally posted by bbrem123
true but it has been stated that no omniscient being has controlled all of the gems

so thanos would not be able to wield the gauntlet to it fullest potential

but the Nemesis can

actually when nemesis tried, each of the other parts of her, (the other gems) had each somehow gained sentience, and resisted having their powers used by her. Even though she was forcefully able to extract it...

i kno im talking about the original

where she didnt have the gems resisting

Originally posted by rotiart
The Infinity gems are representations of the power the original Infinity Being had. Think about it, just cause you had a couple of crumbs of coffee cake doesn't make you full, now does it. Its a representation of the original power. Ie. model car vs real car. And here's the kicker, i will never be able to prove it WAS, you'll never be able to provie it WASN'T. bwahahahhahahhaha

try to define something that has never really been defined.

Not quite sonny

It was stated that the beings might was reincarnated as the Gems, therefore you saying that they are just representations of the original power and inferring that the gems might have less power than in their original incarnation is just speculation. None of that here please.

yes u do gain its power but u dont have the absolute knowledge to wield it perfectly

Originally posted by bbrem123
the power of the IG does not only pertain to the 616 universe...the magus created a replica of the 616 universe and was goin to merge them...he did that with 5 cosmic cubes...and that power is not even comparable to that of the Infinity Being

The power of the I Gems derives from 616. It is OF 616. Therefore no matter what you try and argue the power source is conclusively not on par with the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The power of the I Gems derives from 616. It is OF 616. Therefore no matter what you try and argue the power source is conclusively not on par with the Phoenix Force.

even if ur statement is correct...it is irrelevant to this argument

the LT is a multiveral power second only to TOAA and his power is arguably shown to only match that of the gauntlet...let alone the actual being itself

Originally posted by bbrem123
even if ur statement is correct...it is irrelevant to this argument

the LT is a multiveral power second only to TOAA and his power is arguably shown to only match that of the gauntlet...let alone the actual being itself

For all we know that was an M body of LTs which didnt possess his full power. Regardless the IG conclusively taps into the power of 616 and that is less power than the Phoenix Force possesses so its basically game over.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
For all we know that was an M body of LTs which didnt possess his full power. Regardless the IG conclusively taps into the power of 616 and that is less power than the Phoenix Force possesses so its basically game over.

that is an awful argument

Originally posted by bbrem123
that is an awful argument

No. Its actually quite a sound one. The IG conclusively as stated on panel taps into the energies of 616. That is less power than the Phoenix has its disposal conclusively. You tried to argue about LT being all great and powerful therefore that has to be a load of rubbish because he wasnt shown to be more powerful than the IG. Yet thats a poor argument because they never actually faced each other (LT and the IG) so for all we know LT would have messed him up.

but where does it say on panel that it can only tap into those energies and not outside...all ur saying is he was only using the 616 Universe

and they stated that a confrontation would lay waste to that reality...and that was only Adam Warlock with the gauntlet not Nemesis

thanos even stats that he is supreme ruler of 616 universe and all other universes

Originally posted by bbrem123
but where does it say on panel that it can only tap into those energies and not outside...all ur saying is he was only using the 616 Universe

and they stated that a confrontation would lay waste to that reality...and that was only Adam Warlock with the gauntlet not Nemesis

In Thanos Quest two it states that the Infinity Beings power manifested as the current universe and that the Infinity Gems were the core of this power reincarnated and they were conduits for said power. Therefore the I Gems tap into the power of the 616 universe.

What has LT comments pertaining to the scale of that potential battle got to do with the stated power source of the IG? Changes not a thing.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In Thanos Quest two it states that the Infinity Beings power manifested as the current universe and that the Infinity Gems were the core of this power reincarnated and they were conduits for said power. Therefore the I Gems tap into the power of the 616 universe.

What has LT comments pertaining to the scale of that potential battle got to do with the stated power source of the IG? Changes not a thing.

it stats in the comic that thanos has supreme power over all universes

Originally posted by bbrem123
thanos even stats that he is supreme ruler of 616 universe and all other universes

Character claims alone are not sufficient evidence. Thanos claims alot of things. He claimed to be supreme when he had the Cosmic cube and cube beings are now considered minor omnipotents. The crux of the matter is that the IG taps into the energy contained within 616. The Phoenix power spawns realities and Jean has been shown holding 616 in its hand. The Ig gave mastery over this glowing mound in Jeans palm:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209545011.jpg&s=f5

Thats impressive!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What has LT comments pertaining to the scale of that potential battle got to do with the stated power source of the IG? Changes not a thing.

this is about which is more powerful not what u think the power source comes from

he was supreme over one universe not all...he never stated that he was supreme over all universes....

and it was said that the infinity beings was all throughtout infinity

healing a universe is not as impressive as total control over it...with the IG u can do what u want to a universe heal/destroy it doesnt matter

where does it say that it is 616?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He claimed to be supreme when he had the Cosmic cube and cube beings are now considered minor omnipotents. The crux of the matter is that the IG taps into the energy contained within 616. The Phoenix power spawns realities and Jean has been shown holding 616 in its hand. The Ig gave mastery over this glowing mound in Jeans palm:

hysterical

"IG taps into the energy contained within 616"
What a load of shit

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. To be multiversal the IG would have had to have demonstrated a feat which involved its power being applied simultaneously across all realities of the multiverse. Simply applying your power in another reality is NOT multiversal.

Interesting..how you rearrange the definition of Multi-

Multi...which simply means...more than one
Magus had absolute control over his Universe and also Warped 616 simultaneously...

Oh...and he made Mighty Eternity Catatonic from OUTSIDE 616 aswell.

Magus might of created Universes...instead of just One Universe with the 5 Cosmic Cubes.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8372/maguscreateduniversewccue9.th.jpg
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6025/maguscreateduniversewcc2gb2.th.jpg

Doom say's it only takes ONE to possibly conquer the Entire Universe.
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/8821/maguscreateduniversewcc3zq6.th.jpg

5 Cosmic Cubes make a duplicate reality...and possibly other separate Universes.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/7572/cosmiccubesmakeduplicate0fv.th.jpg

This is HOW Powerful the Infinity Gauntlet is:

Now imagine 30 Cosmic Containment Units...the Goddess had that many...30.
Here the Goddess merges 30 Cosmic Containment Units...which equal to even greater power as a sum than individually(as when Magus used his 5)
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1842/cosmicegg30ccgi2.th.jpg

Here Silver Surfer and the Goddess acknowledge that the Infinity Gauntlet is a "Far More Potent Force" than even 30 Cosmic Containment Units(un-evolved Cosmic Cubes)and remember it only took 5 to create an exact duplicate of the 616 Universe...from scratch....yet someone has the BALLS to say it derives it's power from 616....LOL.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2227/igmorethan30ccmb2.th.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The original I Gems were fragments of a being claimed by Thanos to have been responsible for creating 616 in Thanos Quest.

That's correct...On Panel...and the Multiverse's origin was shown to Reed and Dr Druid by Captain MArvel..and it had NOTHING to do with the Phoenix Force.
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7402/multi13vs.th.jpg
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Since then the Infinity Being has been stated to have been someone who was merely of 616 in the Avengers/Ultraverse crossovers which consequently are canon and are referenced in the bios of Sersi and the Black Knight, whilst the initiator of the 616 creation cycle we've been told is Phoenix. For more details google "marvunapp nemesis"

Crossovers...

Dude...your insane if you think I will debate based on Crossoverspukeand Bios.thumbdown

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Please read the comic. Dont go merely by the scans. The universe in the palm of her hand is 616 which she had just damaged by cutting away its future, leaving it in a static state.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209533321.jpg&s=f5

No where in that scan does she have 616 in her hands...or does it even mention 616....she amputated that whole Specific future, "of the Intelligent bacterial colony gone rogue."

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix then restructured/repaired 616 in the palm of her hand displaying control of it in its totality right down to the atomic level
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209545011.jpg&s=f5

Dude stop using those two words with a backslash..."restructured/repaired"
They don't mean the same thing...
stop trying to make it look as though Phoenix Remade/Warped 616 or any Universe for that matter.

Again from Websters:
REPAIR: fix or mend (a thing suffering from damage or a fault)

Restructure: organize differently (reconfigure)

She Repaired the Damage done to some "Orphan Universe"..
Where the heck are you getting 616 from?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Before growing it a new future by changing Scotts reactions to Emma
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209562539.jpg&s=f5

She changed Scotts future...youpi

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Ig taps into the fundamental forces of 616. It gives you mastery over something Phoenix holds in the palm of her hand like a tennis ball. The Phoenix Force by feats and by definition is greater than the IG.

Unfortunately for you your probably now reading/seeing my prior scans...and they conclusively show IG being BEYOND Eternity and being Multiversal at that...which would make it IMPOSSIBLE for it to derive it's power from JUST 616.

Phoenix Force by feats...yawn scuse me...are pathetic in comparison to what you make her.

Woot, go Mr. Master!

thank u

his only argument is that she holds a universe, and it not that good of one

seriously though. Nice scans and good arguement. I'd like to see Galactic storms arguement against you though, through scans of course.

Theoretical battles are crazy. And even if either of you prove your case. Comics have a magic called retcon. Years ago Jean was NOT the embodient a universal/multiversal being, then she was, then she wasn't again, then she is again.

Stupidity incites stupidity.

Originally posted by bbrem123
this is about which is more powerful not what u think the power source comes from
and beside power source means nothing.

i can be born from earth ....... and i could posible beat people who are beyond multiversal it happens.

Originally posted by bbrem123
this is about which is more powerful not what u think the power source comes from

Youre completely missing the point.

If the original IGs power stems from 616 and the current interpretation of the Phoenix not only creates realities by manifesting as the Big Bang but has avatars who operate across the multiverse repairing entire universes then its fallacious to argue against the force being more powerful than the IG.

The very fact that Jean can hold the universe in the palm of her hand and manipulate it casually in seconds should tell you the force is far more powerful. Its one of those little universes that the IG derives its power from

Handled in the other thread where the exact same post was presented. Heres a link:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=408998&pagenumber=15#post6913817

Actually read and analyse the evidence presented dont just swallow what your told is going on in the scans.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre completely missing the point.

If the original IGs power stems from 616 and the current interpretation of the Phoenix not only creates realities by manifesting as the Big Bang but has avatars who operate across the multiverse repairing entire universes then its fallacious to argue against the force being more powerful than the IG.

The very fact that Jean can hold the universe in the palm of her hand and manipulate it casually in seconds should tell you the force is far more powerful. Its one of those little universes that the IG derives its power from

surrree....she did not do it casually she had to concentrate to do it...and with the IG u do what ever u think in an instant...nice try tho

Originally posted by bbrem123
surrree....she did not do it casually she had to concentrate to do it...and with the IG u do what ever u think in an instant...nice try tho

The things achieved by the IG in an instant, were they ever on the scale of manipulating an entire universe in the palm of your hand?

When Magus went about merging the two universe did he do it instantly with a thought or was it a gradual process?

Point dismissed.

Foregone conclusion

he didnt even have the gauntlet he had 5 cosmic cubes...no where near the IG in power

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre completely missing the point.

If the original IGs power stems from 616

You can continue to pump this nonsense...people see the scans and then your claims...and then realize.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
and the current interpretation of the Phoenix not only creates realities by manifesting as the Big Bang

Phoenix has never...in ALL her history...created a Reality.....NEVER.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
but has avatars who operate across the multiverse repairing entire universes then its fallacious to argue against the force being more powerful than the IG.

Fallacious?....Yet you can't present ONE scan that shows an Avatar Repairing a Universe...it was difficult enough for the "White Phoenix of the Crown"...as she herself claimed.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The very fact that Jean can hold the universe in the palm of her hand and manipulate it casually in seconds should tell you the force is far more powerful. Its one of those little universes that the IG derives its power from

I don't think this needs to be addressed furthur....everyone knows the IG is obviously MUCH MUCH MORE than just a Universal weapon/that it's power derives from 616...this is absolute BULLshit

And as we ALL saw in the scans Phoenix did NOT manipulate an Entire Universe ...she Repaired the Damage Done to some "Orphan Universe"...and "it wasn't as easy as it looked"...she said.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The things achieved by the IG in an instant, were they ever on the scale of manipulating an entire universe in the palm of your hand?

When Magus went about merging the two universe did he do it instantly with a thought or was it a gradual process?

Point dismissed.

Foregone conclusion

Well as a matter of FACT....YES it was INSTANTLY!

It would have taken him Hours with his now missing Containment Units...but with the INCOMPLETE Infinity Gauntlet...it was INSTANTANEOUS.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1435/igremakes6166tn.th.jpg

I see it's your point that should be dismissed not his.

Yes I know...you'l come up with another excuse now.

Originally posted by bbrem123
surrree....she did not do it casually she had to concentrate to do it...and with the IG u do what ever u think in an instant...nice try tho

Your absolutely correct bbrem.

thank u mr master

hes just fighting it because of pride

Originally posted by Mr Master
You can continue to pump this nonsense...people see the scans and then your claims...and then realize.



Phoenix has never...in ALL her history...created a Reality.....NEVER.

Ummmm Eternity and Death in X-men Forever mark out Phoenix as the power that initiates the creation cycle, how pray tell do you believe that happens? Big Bang? Has Phoenix been said to manifest as the Big Bang? Isnt Phoenix both a force that exists in reality and a force that resides outside its confines simultaneously?

Waitaminute. If thats the case wouldnt that make creation her:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512434275.jpg&s=f10

Yep. Her handiwork.



Originally posted by Mr Master
Fallacious?....Yet you can't present ONE scan that shows an Avatar Repairing a Universe...it was difficult enough for the "White Phoenix of the Crown"...as she herself claimed.

Ummm i think by now everyones seen the scans of Jean repairing 616 in the palm of her hand. Not once does Jean say it was difficult. The Consciousness said that manipulating all of those atoms (at the time she was manipulating the universe in her hand) isnt as easy as it looks. Jean showed just how well she'd been trained by doing it in seconds and with no discernible effort.


Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't think this need to be addressed furthur....everyone knows the IG is obviously MUCH MUCH MORE than just a Universal weapon/that it's power derives from 616...this absolute BULLshit

The IG has been stated on panel to tap into the power of 616. I am going by what was stated on panel and in the bio. You are presenting feats which you dont think should be possible with that power source and telling me im wrong.

Take it up with Marvel sonny. Doesnt harm Phoenix at all. Just speaks better for her if something that derives power from something she can create can pull off some badass feats.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And as we ALL saw in the scans Phoenix did NOT manipulate an Entire Universe ...she Repaired the Damage Done to some "Orphan Universe"...and "it wasn't as easy as it looked"...she said.

She manipulated the "orphan universe" in the palm of her hand demonstrating control of it in its totality right down to the atomic level.

Here Comes Tomorrow was 616 150 years in the future. She cut this future away as a result separating 616 from its parent in the"megasystem" as stated on panel. Hence why it was referred to as an orphan.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209533321.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209545011.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209562539.jpg&s=f5

She then grew this universe a new future. How did she do this? She reached into the universe and changed Scotts reactions thereby growing the universe in her palm a new future.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19518495268.jpg&s=f10

But hold up a sec. Isnt that 616?

Try and tell me or the others you know what youre talking about.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well as a matter of FACT....YES it was INSTANTLY!

It would have taken him Hours with his now missing Containment Units...but with the INCOMPLETE Infinity Gauntlet...it was INSTANTANEOUS.
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1435/igremakes6166tn.th.jpg

I see it's your point that should be dismissed not his.

Yes I know...you'l come up with another excuse now.

Im sorry. Where does that state or depict it would be accomplished instantly?

Must've missed that part.

Originally posted by bbrem123
thank u mr master

hes just fighting it because of pride

Nope that is why youre prolonging this futile exercise.

My point is stated on panel and in the bio. Youre arguing because you dont agree. Take it up with Marvel

Bring it on!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ummmm Eternity and Death in X-men Forever mark out Phoenix as the power that initiates the creation cycle, how pray tell do you believe that happens? Big Bang? Has Phoenix been said to manifest as the Big Bang? Is Phoenix both a force that exists in reality and a force that resides outside its confines.

Waitaminute. If thats the case wouldnt that make creation her:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18512434275.jpg&s=f10

Yep. Her handiwork.





wait... we can trust some guys opinion but we cant trust thanoss? who is that guy anyway? thanos knows what hes talking about, this guys just talking out of his ass.
hmmm, the ig destroyed half the universe with a snap, and with 2 snaps...whoa dont even go there.
and jean as the pheonix can even beat the shiar.... yep, she is above the ig, all right.
oh no, i can repair a universe.
but with 5 gems, i can do better and faster.
hmmm, makes you wonder...

Originally posted by bigbran
wait... we can trust some guys opinion but we cant trust thanoss? who is that guy anyway? thanos knows what hes talking about, this guys just talking out of his ass.

Ummmm its Death

You sure know your comics

The difference with Thanos is that theres precedence for him boasting or hyping up things. He said the exact same things with the cosmic cubes as aforementioned. He said it with the IG and then confusingly enough claimed the same thing about HOTI. By your logic theyre all supreme right?

How can anyone think something that taps into the power of just 616 can be supreme when there are powers which can hold such universes in the palm of their hands, powers that can create said universes.

Thanos getting carried away?




Originally posted by bigbran
hmmm, the ig destroyed half the universe with a snap, and with 2 snaps...whoa dont even go there.
and jean as the pheonix can even beat the shiar.... yep, she is above the ig, all right.
oh no, i can repair a universe.
but with 5 gems, i can do better and faster.
hmmm, makes you wonder...

As aforementioned the universe is made up of billions of planets, star systems, galaxies etc. In terms of matter i think its safe to say that half of its population doesnt account for much of its totality. In seconds Phoenix demonstrated control of the universe in its totality, she manipulated it atom by atom in the palm of her hand. In comparison to that killing half a population in a split second is lame

Come back Mr "Master" it was just getting fun!!!

Originally posted by bigbran
wait... we can trust some guys opinion but we cant trust thanoss? who is that guy anyway? thanos knows what hes talking about, this guys just talking out of his ass.
hmmm, the ig destroyed half the universe with a snap, and with 2 snaps...whoa dont even go there.
and jean as the pheonix can even beat the shiar.... yep, she is above the ig, all right.
oh no, i can repair a universe.
but with 5 gems, i can do better and faster.
hmmm, makes you wonder...

This is true and right.

That guy in the scan, reminded me of Chuck Norris.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Come back Mr "Master" it was just getting fun!!!

I have to bounce right now...I'll be back tomorrrow.

Stop relying on bios and characters talking so much...you used to dismiss cliams that were not based on On Panel Displays.

Now you dismiss On Panel Proof(which I have posted)and replace it with Death talking up a storm...when no one knows her true intentions...look at what happened to Korvac...yea...he thought he was in charge too.

What happened GS...you used to be a worthy debater.

actully with the cosmic cube, and ig, he second to LT which would in a sense be supreme. then with the hotu, he was absolute power. so he was supreme with all 3, and would it be wron to call himself supreme? no it wouldnt. who apposed him face to face, hmmm, nobody, thats who, unless you actully count thanos useing one gem?!?!?!?
yes thanos doesnt know hwat hes talking about when hes had power 2nd to LT 2 x, and power over everything once.

know one guy, now i dont know my comics?
well i could say the same thing to you, who claims false things about there favorite character.
now the infinate being is the ig, in a sense as full power, now wait a minute, magus affecting the universe didnt even have all of the gems, and he was ignorant and didnt even know how to use them at full power. but where argueing about someone at top power of the ig, against someone that was able to afffect the universe? this has one on a little far, when pheonix is able to shutoff universes(LT) or destroy the shiar, who as i see it is a little below the ig(just a little) then maybe we might have an arguement.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to bounce right now...I'll be back tomorrrow.

Stop relying on bios and characters talking so much...you used to dismiss cliams that were not based on On Panel Displays.

Now you dismiss On Panel Proof(which I have posted)and replace it with Death talking up a storm...when no one knows her true intentions...look at what happened to Korvac...yea...he thought he was in charge too.

What happened GS...you used to be a worthy debater.

What you need to understand is that youre not posting conclusive evidence. Youre posting scans which can be interpreted to correspond with your argument. Nothing that conclusively states or depicts what youre trying to say. You really need to understand that.

When character comments are in accordance and have precedence in captions, bios and some on panel depictions then i am completely justified in presenting them as evidence.

For you to condescendingly knock my debating skills and then argue stubbornly about a comic you clearly havent read, ignore on panel comments, and bios because they dont favour your agenda and ignore a previous truce to throw insults is not only arrogant as hell, but really quite laughable.

Originally posted by bigbran
actully with the cosmic cube, and ig, he second to LT which would in a sense be supreme. then with the hotu, he was absolute power. so he was supreme with all 3, and would it be wron to call himself supreme? no it wouldnt. who apposed him face to face, hmmm, nobody, thats who, unless you actully count thanos useing one gem?!?!?!?yes thanos doesnt know hwat hes talking about when hes had power 2nd to LT 2 x, and power over everything once.

Well then its not supreme then is it?




Originally posted by bigbran
know one guy, now i dont know my comics?
well i could say the same thing to you, who claims false things about there favorite character.
now the infinate being is the ig, in a sense as full power, now wait a minute, magus affecting the universe didnt even have all of the gems, and he was ignorant and didnt even know how to use them at full power. but where argueing about someone at top power of the ig, against someone that was able to afffect the universe? this has one on a little far, when pheonix is able to shutoff universes(LT) or destroy the shiar, who as i see it is a little below the ig(just a little) then maybe we might have an arguement.


This argument is pointless. As stated on panel and in the bios the IG derives power from 616. Phoenix creates realities and Jean has held 616 in the palm of her hand like it was nothing. In the current Phoenix interpretation Phoenix sparked off 616 as stated on panel its her handiwork. With that in mind its pretty much game over.

hmm the original being in which the gems came from, on the bio(you use bio, i use bio) said had his domain was any and all realities, and it said he was omnipotent, no just read the bio. it says it on the second paragraph on the history section if you want to skip right to it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Gems

You just arent going to win. While all my previous evidence actually states the point im trying to make, you assault the thread with a barrage of ambiguous scans whilst presenting your interpretation of them as fact. Not good enough

Whilst Phoenix haters and people ive had past dealings with jump on the bandwagon i'll just carry on going and the only reason i can do that is because what i say is actually stated or depicted on panel. Understand that. I really cant wait for Phoenix Warsong to come out

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ummmm its Death

You sure know your comics

The difference with Thanos is that theres precedence for him boasting or hyping up things. He said the exact same things with the cosmic cubes as aforementioned. He said it with the IG and then confusingly enough claimed the same thing about HOTI. By your logic theyre all supreme right?

How can anyone think something that taps into the power of just 616 can be supreme when there are powers which can hold such universes in the palm of their hands, powers that can create said universes.

Thanos getting carried away?




First. The cosmic cube, when it first was discovered was believed to be the strongest thing in the universe. Its might went virtually unchallenged until Thanos was separated from it. Using it, A world was unmade, changed, remade. Many stood against its power

With the infinity gauntlet, almost noone could stand against its power other than the most omnipotent, such as death or LT.

The HOTU, the most recently acchieved power, allowed Thanos the ability to surpass even LT. So each time he thinks he's the most powerful, but there are benchmarks he has currently unpassed. The only true benchmark left is TOAA.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As aforementioned the universe is made up of billions of planets, star systems, galaxies etc. In terms of matter i think its safe to say that half of its population doesnt account for much of its totality. In seconds Phoenix demonstrated control of the universe in its totality, she manipulated it atom by atom in the palm of her hand. In comparison to that killing half a population in a split second is lame

Thanos with IG decided to become Eternity, thinking that would make him the most powerful and absolute being. The only problem is that to do it, he had to go without the IG. Well guess what. Nebula got the IG, and easily overtook his power in an instant, she unmade everything he had done. Eternity = Universe. And without even a fight, Eternity lost. When you have people on near equal terms, even abstracts, they battle it out. Not even Eternity could stand against the IG. Only LT.

She mended the universe, means she fixed a problem with it. In your own scans she says its a job that she can do, but look at the strain on her. Its not as easy as you say.

The 5 Cosmic Cubes are stated to be not even close to the power of the Infinity Gauntlet... and yet they remade the 616 universe, and were going to merge the two. If the 5 cosmic cubes can create a whole universe, and surfer says that even 5 is only a fraction of the IG... what does that tell you? Magus even plotted a whole huge plan, just to get LT to let the IG work again.

Goddess says the most powerful device in the universe is the IG, even her cosmic egg, is only the most powerful now because LT willed the gems not to work together. She acknowledged how much greater the IG is. Yet she can use the egg to affect the entire universe. And still again the IG is so much greater than 30 containment units, then can now affect the entire universe...

Btw Phoenix has had YEARS to master her control of the phoenix force and its effects on the universe, and yet still strains at the feats. Nebula restored the universe with but a thought.

Originally posted by bigbran
hmm the original being in which the gems came from, on the bio(you use bio, i use bio) said had his domain was any and all realities, and it said he was omnipotent, no just read the bio. it says it on the second paragraph on the history section if you want to skip right to it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Gems

And you would be a fool to take anything written on Wikipedia as fact. Its editable by any member of the public. I could go on their now and say The Infinity Being was into S & M.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You just arent going to win. While all my previous evidence actually states the point im trying to make, you assault the thread with a barrage of ambiguous scans whilst presenting your interpretation of them as fact. Not good enough

Whilst Phoenix haters and people ive had past dealings with jump on the bandwagon i'll just carry on going and the only reason i can do that is because what i say is actually stated or depicted on panel. Understand that. I really cant wait for Phoenix Warsong to come out

I can't believe the absurdity of your assaults on basic intelligence sir. You do the exact thing you describe was said against you. Plain and simple. You sir are a fanboy, and a hypocrite. A one trick pony. One picture. Over. and Over. and Over. While the rest post images that have pretty much come and gone for the past decade, from the cosmic cube era, to the IG, to hotu. You don't even try to listen to other arguements. You just state they are wrong and refuse their authenticity at every fashion, while yours should always be assumed to be correct. See if you didn't act so arrogant, and condescending, you would be received better. Fanboy. The word fits you so well.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And you would be a fool to take anything written on Wikipedia as fact. Its editable by any member of the public. I could go on their now and say The Infinity Being was into S & M.

Funny how bios can work in your favor, but not in his?

jeez.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You just arent going to win. While all my previous evidence actually states the point im trying to make, you assault the thread with a barrage of ambiguous scans whilst presenting your interpretation of them as fact. Not good enough

Whilst Phoenix haters and people ive had past dealings with jump on the bandwagon i'll just carry on going and the only reason i can do that is because what i say is actually stated or depicted on panel. Understand that. I really cant wait for Phoenix Warsong to come out where are my scans? i used a bio and common sense, did you even read the bio? no one has had the full power of the ig, hmmm, so destroying half the universe with a thought, isnt full power, whoa. anyone with the ig goes unaposed, but lets see, with the pheonix, what are her enemies? x-men(yup, there multiversal) shiar(whoa, no need to pull out the cosmics) magneto(whoa look out ig, your going to need to be full power) and a couple others...
but in the meantime, the igs power has destroyed eternity, galactus and all abstracts(cept LT) who has stood up to the ig? magneto, x men, shiar, no because they would be destroyed before they even thought about it.
in the meantime, LT has stated that if him and warlock would have fought they would have destroyed a lot o shit. and thats LT you know, the one who can see everything in the multiverse, can undo the igs work, with a snap.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And you would be a fool to take anything written on Wikipedia as fact. Its editable by any member of the public. I could go on their now and say The Infinity Being was into S & M. i can bring you about 20 bios that state the same thing. but they would be wrong too, i suppose.

wikipedia is pretty shady though. In fact I dispise it.

Originally posted by rotiart
First. The cosmic cube, when it first was discovered was believed to be the strongest thing in the universe. Its might went virtually unchallenged until Thanos was separated from it. Using it, A world was unmade, changed, remade. Many stood against its power

With the infinity gauntlet, almost noone could stand against its power other than the most omnipotent, such as death or LT.

The HOTU, the most recently acchieved power, allowed Thanos the ability to surpass even LT. So each time he thinks he's the most powerful, but there are benchmarks he has currently unpassed. The only true benchmark left is TOAA.

Which is just my point. These posters are trying to use Thanos' mistaken claim pertaining to the IG making him supreme when in fact it didnt. Thats just what he thought and there was precedence for that. It was a mistake therefore it is irrelevant as evidence.



Originally posted by rotiart
Nebula got the IG, and easily overtook his power in an instant, she unmade everything he had done. Eternity = Universe. And without even a fight, Eternity lost. When you have people on near equal terms, even abstracts, they battle it out. Not even Eternity could stand against the IG. Only LT.

She mended the universe, means she fixed a problem with it. In your own scans she says its a job that she can do, but look at the strain on her. Its not as easy as you say.

Nebula fixed a few things Thanos had done within the universe, you know the universe Jean had in the palm of her hand and yet youre going to try and liken her fixing of those few things to Jean manipulating the universe in its entirety?

There was no strain on her face at all. There was concentration however and the job was done in seconds. Given the scale of the task i think thats allowed wouldnt you say?

Originally posted by rotiart
The 5 Cosmic Cubes are stated to be not even close to the power of the Infinity Gauntlet... and yet they remade the 616 universe, and were going to merge the two. If the 5 cosmic cubes can create a whole universe, and surfer says that even 5 is only a fraction of the IG... what does that tell you? Magus even plotted a whole huge plan, just to get LT to let the IG work again.

Goddess says the most powerful device in the universe is the IG, even her cosmic egg, is only the most powerful now because LT willed the gems not to work together. She acknowledged how much greater the IG is. Yet she can use the egg to affect the entire universe. And still again the IG is so much greater than 30 containment units, then can now affect the entire universe...

Cosmic cubes when used to their full potential can manipulate reality on a universal scale, otherwise their range is planetary. How do we know that Magus wasnt just using his cubes more effectively than the Goddess. Plus how do you know how the Godesses cubes from other realities stacked up power wise to the cubes made in 616? Your argument is based on assumption. All we should be going on here is the facts. The IG is as stated on panel and in the bios powered by 616. It is of the universe. Phoenix spawns universes and its avatars can manipulate universes in the palm of their hand from far outside of reality. Jean as Phoenix has performed more impressive feat than any IG wielder has done and thats a fact.

Originally posted by rotiart
Btw Phoenix has had YEARS to master her control of the phoenix force and its effects on the universe, and yet still strains at the feats. Nebula restored the galaxy with but a thought.

There was no strain. What are you talking about? Regardless wouldnt you say its a bit silly to liken the two feats together. Thats like me equating effortlessly running up an average flight of stairs to someone doing a marathon and then criticisng the fact that the marathon runner took hours in comparison to my seconds. How do you think the runner would fare if they ran up the same flight of stairs?

Well according to the original Thanos Quest collection, after staring in the infinity well, thats pretty much what Thanos states. That there was only one being in all the realities, and that being was him. He was all powerful, and therefore none would be like him. He ended up killing himself, and fractions of his power were retained in items Thanos had originally thought to be soul gems. But were renamed later to infinity gems, since only his first gem had power over souls.

I'm paraphrasing, since I don't have that comic on me since I'm at work, but i've read it at least 6 -7 times.

Originally posted by rotiart
I can't believe the absurdity of your assaults on basic intelligence sir. You do the exact thing you describe was said against you. Plain and simple. You sir are a fanboy, and a hypocrite. A one trick pony. One picture. Over. and Over. and Over. While the rest post images that have pretty much come and gone for the past decade, from the cosmic cube era, to the IG, to hotu. You don't even try to listen to other arguements. You just state they are wrong and refuse their authenticity at every fashion, while yours should always be assumed to be correct. See if you didn't act so arrogant, and condescending, you would be received better. Fanboy. The word fits you so well.

Youre saying that because you have just jumped into a situation you have no knowledge of. On top of that have you heard of a little thing called a retcon? Well thats basically why posting dozens of scans from over a decade ago is really rather silly. The arguments posted have been had before and with the same people long before your registration, there is a history, so forgive me for not arguing fully just to cater for your arrival.

This is funny...but i think everyone agrees...Phoenix isnt shit except in the pages of X-Men....never even been a factor anywhere else.

Originally posted by rotiart
Funny how bios can work in your favor, but not in his?

jeez.

Its a bio written by a member of the public. Mine i have referred to are Marvels own and are presented alongside scans stating the same point. See the difference?

SHHHHH!!!

Originally posted by bigbran
i can bring you about 20 bios that state the same thing. but they would be wrong too, i suppose.

Nope, unless they came from an official source they would be ignored

Originally posted by Wynndar
This is funny...but i think everyone agrees...Phoenix isnt shit except in the pages of X-Men....never even been a factor anywhere else.

Its sad but mostly true.

Politics at marvel. What can you do?

Where was the IG stated on panel to be powered by the 616 universe. And No I would think that two people, each restoring a universe to its rightful state are the same thing.

Within a microsecond, Nebula had dethroned an Eternity level Thanos. Thanos havign done the same to Eternity.

IG has stood up to LT.
LT is the supreme judge. #2 only to TOAA
LT has stated that he will never again let the IG be reformed. Why. Guess? its power rivals his, its the only thing that can upset the balance. Its power should be not in the hands of a trifling human mind, that can be threatened with insanity.

But wait. isn't that what happened to jean. Didn't we call that the Dark Phoenix saga? The fact that she lost her ever loving mind? Why then wouldn't LT have intervened. Done something? Why? because jean is less of a threat. LT only intervenes in multiversal situations. korvac, beyonder, hotu, ig.... where was he during the mkraan incident...the orphan universe. situations of less import, he declined to intervene. guess what. Thats what jean is, a powerful, yes, but unimportant piece to the greater puzzle.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its a bio written by a member of the public. Mine i have referred to are Marvels own and are presented alongside scans stating the same point. See the difference?

SHHHHH!!!

Like someone else told me. You can't go off bios. Only what you read. Captain America is stated to be peak human according to the bios. But the comics would say otherwise. He has downed the likes of Thor, The wrecking crew, rhino, hyde. He has hurt hulk. throw his heavy shield hundreds of feet. run at speeds matching those of a car in motion. caught big bertha, 750lbs falling from overhead, and didn't strain.

Originally posted by rotiart
Where was the IG stated on panel to be powered by the 616 universe. And No I would think that two people, each restoring a universe to its rightful state are the same thing.

Ive already answered this question here. Refer back to my previous posts.

Given the scale of the things Nebula corrected within the universe no it really cant be equated to Jean manipulating the universe in its totality atom by atom.

Originally posted by rotiart
Within a microsecond, Nebula had dethroned an Eternity level Thanos. Thanos havign done the same to Eternity.

Nebula did that by merely taking possession of the Gauntlet. It wasnt a conscious act its just that the Gauntlet was the only thing maintaining his elevated state as Eternitys replacement. Yep well The IG is more powerful than the Eternity M Body. Funnily enough Eternity even after the IG Saga still believed that in his totality he was more powerful than the IG.

Originally posted by rotiart
IG has stood up to LT.
LT is the supreme judge. #2 only to TOAA
LT has stated that he will never again let the IG be reformed. Why. Guess? its power rivals his, its the only thing that can upset the balance. Its power should be not in the hands of a trifling human mind, that can be threatened with insanity.

And yet LT intervened when Phoenix was thinking of using Rachel as a host in an alternate reality. Why? Cos as stated no mortal could long contain her power and LT said she was a threat to the multiverse in that form. The What If has been posted many a time on this forum so again its just a case of SHHHHHH!!!



Originally posted by rotiart
But wait. isn't that what happened to jean. Didn't we call that the Dark Phoenix saga? The fact that she lost her ever loving mind? Why then wouldn't LT have intervened. Done something? Why? because jean is less of a threat. LT only intervenes in multiversal situations. korvac, beyonder, hotu, ig.... where was he during the mkraan incident...the orphan universe. situations of less import, he declined to intervene. guess what. Thats what jean is, a powerful, yes, but unimportant piece to the greater puzzle.

LT intervenes in things he has jurisdiction over. When Thanos had the IG LT never intervened because of the circumstances. So you trying to say that the power level of a threat is what determines LTs intervention is a bit of a load to be honest.

Originally posted by rotiart
Like someone else told me. You can't go off bios. Only what you read. Captain America is stated to be peak human according to the bios. But the comics would say otherwise. He has downed the likes of Thor, The wrecking crew, rhino, hyde. He has hurt hulk. throw his heavy shield hundreds of feet. run at speeds matching those of a car in motion. caught big bertha, 750lbs falling from overhead, and didn't strain.



Why the dance?

Did you not read my last post?

Refer back to it and you'll see i said the bio was used alongside other sources all stating the same point, therefore its use is completely justified

Thats enough for now. Nite nite peeps!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ive already answered this question here. Refer back to my previous posts.

Given the scale of the things Nebula corrected within the universe no it really cant be equated to Jean manipulating the universe in its totality atom by atom.



Nebula did that by merely taking possession of the Gauntlet. It wasnt a conscious act its just that the Gauntlet was the only thing maintaining his elevated state as Eternitys replacement. Yep well The IG is more powerful than the Eternity M Body. Funnily enough Eternity even after the IG Saga still believed that in his totality he was more powerful than the IG.



And yet LT intervened when Phoenix was thinking of using Rachel as a host in an alternate reality. Why? Cos as stated no mortal could long contain her power and LT said she was a threat to the multiverse in that form. The What If has been posted many a time on this forum so again its just a case of SHHHHHH!!!





LT intervenes in things he has jurisdiction over. When Thanos had the IG LT never intervened because of the circumstances. So you trying to say that the power level of a threat is what determines LTs intervention is a bit of a load to be honest. so basically, were to believe what- ifs now? and LT has a rule, that only the strong shall survive(or something like that), thanos wasnt breaking that rule, now was he?

Yea that's true. I wouldn't attribute Jean's "lesser level of power" to the LT not being involved, just the one dimensional X-Men writing that didnt consider the rest of the MU cosmics. LT has intervened because of the threat the HULK made!!!! It would have definitely been in character for him to intervene with Phoenix, but in X-Men, Phoenix was basically the only cosmic being in existence...maybe except for the Watcher. The IG story definitely used a much more dynamic and involved portrayal of the MU cosmics. Ultimately, considering the feats and complexity of the other MU cosmics we have to assume the Phoenix is somewhere around Galactus level in power and significance.

The last creation story arc in F4 didnt mention the Phoenix either and invented a whole new being that did tie in Galactus.

How about Anihilation? also considers Galactus and a couple new highly powerful cosmics involved in the creation...still no phoenix.

I will admit, Kubik showed Cosmos the Phoenix being somewhere around Galactus/Stranger/Watcher status, somewhere near himself but still vastly behind Eternity and the Celestials.

We have to take an objective and pluralistic approach to the issue; if one conisders all cosmic story arcs in the MU, the Phoenix is a powerful being but not on the level of LT or IG.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In Thanos Quest two it states that the Infinity Beings power manifested as the current universe and that the Infinity Gems were the core of this power reincarnated and they were conduits for said power. Therefore the I Gems tap into the power of the 616 universe.

What has LT comments pertaining to the scale of that potential battle got to do with the stated power source of the IG? Changes not a thing.

You mean the part where it says the core of his being became the basis for the gems. That the IB existed in any and all realities. they are containers of the power he contained. that HE was. not the 616 univierse. It says that with original beings death, came Reality as we know it. Well guess what... reality shows that there are several multiverses. He was the precursor to the multiverse. not the universe. It NEVER states universe. You are changing the words of the comic to suit your needs.

Did you read Thanos Quest like the rest of us did, cause maybe its time to do that.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In Thanos Quest two it states that the Infinity Beings power manifested as the current universe and that the Infinity Gems were the core of this power reincarnated and they were conduits for said power. Therefore the I Gems tap into the power of the 616 universe.

What has LT comments pertaining to the scale of that potential battle got to do with the stated power source of the IG? Changes not a thing.

No where is it on panel that Phoenix Force is that power source. Big Bang? Which one? The one Genis made? Or the one Reed made? Siseneg made one as well.

Grasping at straws again like you always do sonny.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im sorry. Where does that state or depict it would be accomplished instantly?

Must've missed that part.

He had an incomplete Gauntlet and did not know about it. What did you expect when he was missing the REALITY gem of all things.

This is still a better feat than getting killed by Xorn.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope that is why youre prolonging this futile exercise.

My point is stated on panel and in the bio. Youre arguing because you dont agree. Take it up with Marvel

That's great sonny. Now some on panel proof that said PF is the powersource of the Infinity Gauntlet. No indirect speculations now my boy. DIRECT STATEMENT.

No not the big bang one. Genis and Entropy made the 616. So did Sisneg and Reed.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What you need to understand is that youre not posting conclusive evidence. Youre posting scans which can be interpreted to correspond with your argument. Nothing that conclusively states or depicts what youre trying to say. You really need to understand that.



Neither are you providing any conclusive evidence dear boy. Just indirect evidence and YOUR OPINION.

And why are you faulting people about picking scans? You yourself have done so to your liking.




Just because you've read it doesn't mean what your saying is the truth. We've seen what you do to statements and on panel depictions to up Phoenix's stocks. Don't act all preachy to people when your as much in the mud as everyone else.

It's quite amusing to see you continually run about in circles with YOUR OPINION presented as so called facts. Get over yourself kiddo cause you've knocked other people's post as well.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And you would be a fool to take anything written on Wikipedia as fact. Its editable by any member of the public. I could go on their now and say The Infinity Being was into S & M.



Coming from the fool that has quoted wiki. Now you're lecturing bigbran on which sources to use?



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=366681&perpage=20& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Phoenix%29+userid%3A58981
&pagenumber=11




http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=331574&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=10

owned!!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre saying that because you have just jumped into a situation you have no knowledge of. On top of that have you heard of a little thing called a retcon? Well thats basically why posting dozens of scans from over a decade ago is really rather silly. The arguments posted have been had before and with the same people long before your registration, there is a history, so forgive me for not arguing fully just to cater for your arrival.

And I've checked on a lot of them. There's no proof of anything you claim except lots of your opinions and assumptions on the matter of PF's role.

And history? In that history is seems you've been pushing the Phoenix's role and draw up crazy assumptions like the Phoenix being an aspect of the TOAA, without direct evidence. You went so far as to apply a religious theme to the Phoenix's role in efforts to place her higher in the hierarchy.

You've even brought Kaballah to justify your argument. Kiddo, you're just so desparate aren't you? Just as history has shown.

I just love this thread you started. It just examplifies your desparation.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348586& amp;highlight=title%3A%28Phoenix%29+userid%3A58981







New arrivals or not, being a here longer does not mean your more credible or wiser than any junior members.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Nebula fixed a few things Thanos had done within the universe, you know the universe Jean had in the palm of her hand and yet youre going to try and liken her fixing of those few things to Jean manipulating the universe in its entirety?

Like reversing everything back the way it was and beating the cosmics down. But hey, she was just new to the power.



She's had experience with using the PF longer than any of the wielders of the IG combined. Even then the IG wielders messing with time and beating down cosmics including Eternity.

Phoenix didn't do it wasn't in seconds. That's your opinion. We don't know how long it took her to do it.



Child, you're talking about the same cubes. The Goddess had Magus' cosmic cubes in addition to others she gathered. She more cosmic containment units than Magus did when he created a second 616.



Still no direct proof on panel. More drawn conclusions in favor of the Phoenix. What are trying to pull, boy? All your evidence that the PF is the powersource of the IG is NOTHING BUT an ASSUMPTION.


Jean as Phoenix has performed more impressive feat than any IG wielder has done and thats a fact.

It's avatars? I saw Jean fixing it. Maybe you could show me where it said others could do the same thing that Jean, the most powerful host of the Crown did.

And can I have direct evidence when she spawned a universeS.



There wasn't strain when Magus merged two universes either. And all he had was an incomplete Gauntlet.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And yet LT intervened when Phoenix was thinking of using Rachel as a host in an alternate reality. Why? Cos as stated no mortal could long contain her power and LT said she was a threat to the multiverse in that form. The What If has been posted many a time on this forum so again its just a case of SHHHHHH!!!

A what if is what you bring up? In another two what ifs, Phoenix Force couldn't kill Set, a mere elder god of the earth dimension. And the other Jean with the Force was taking orders from a vampire wolverine. Chthon's Darkhold gave rise to vampires, another elder god. Low level beings of the universe we giving the Force were owning her.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Plus how do you know how the Godesses cubes from other realities stacked up power wise to the cubes made in 616?

Forgot to address this one.

Whatever universe each cube came from does not matter. What are you trying to pull here really. The cosmic cubes powers come from the beyond realm. It shouldn't matter that one is from 616 and another from some different reality.

Nice try with warping the facts.

Originally posted by rotiart
You mean the part where it says the core of his being became the basis for the gems. That the IB existed in any and all realities. they are containers of the power he contained. that HE was. not the 616 univierse. It says that with original beings death, came Reality as we know it. Well guess what... reality shows that there are several multiverses. He was the precursor to the multiverse. not the universe. It NEVER states universe. You are changing the words of the comic to suit your needs.

Actually it stated that at one point he was the only living being in any and all realities. Thats different to saying he existed in any and all realities. Get it right son.

Notice how it mentions nothing of him creating the multiverse he existed in. He was just a part of it.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19609051883.jpg&s=f10

It says that with the original beings death all that is current reality came into being. And it said that the core of his might was reincarnated as the gems, which are referred to as the "darkest secret of the UNIVERSE". You are unjustified in trying to claim his death resulted in the multiverse.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing


Neither are you providing any conclusive evidence dear boy. Just indirect evidence and YOUR OPINION.

And why are you faulting people about picking scans? You yourself have done so to your liking.


Just because you've read it doesn't mean what your saying is the truth. We've seen what you do to statements and on panel depictions to up Phoenix's stocks. Don't act all preachy to people when your as much in the mud as everyone else.

It's quite amusing to see you continually run about in circles with YOUR OPINION presented as so called facts. Get over yourself kiddo cause you've knocked other people's post as well.

Ive presented scans referring to Phoenix as the Big Bang, stating Phoenix sparks off a universes life cycle, scans stating Phoenix is the life force of a universe whilst simultaneously existing outside of time/space, scans of Phoenix referring to creation as her handiwork and calling the stars and planets her children. All of those statements come from multiple sources and multiple titles. You have not provided anything which states/depicts Phoenix is conclusively not any of those things or provided anything which means she absolutely cant be any of those things. The points ive been making have been stated on panel.

You on the other hand have proved not a thing!!


Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing


Coming from the fool that has quoted wiki. Now you're lecturing bigbran on which sources to use?

Im sorry, but where have i used a wikipedia statement or bio as the sole means of proving my point?

Is it or is it not used in conjunction with scans and official bios?

Does using it alongside official sources not highlight the fact that many people have also interpreted the comics in the same way that i have?

See the difference?

Hush now child!!

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
A what if is what you bring up? In another two what ifs, Phoenix Force couldn't kill Set, a mere elder god of the earth dimension. And the other Jean with the Force was taking orders from a vampire wolverine. Chthon's Darkhold gave rise to vampires, another elder god. Low level beings of the universe we giving the Force were owning her.

Lies/twisting of the facts/deluded interpretation/poor recollection. Delete as applicable

Rachel could not defeat Set. Rachel does NOT equate to Jean or the Phoenix Force therefore your point is irrelevant.

IN What if V2 #37 ( ) Jean did not have the Phoenix Force when she was taking orders from Wolverine. She did call on the power at the end of the book and stomped Dormammu though.

So what if she was actually taking orders from him. Thats irrelevant. Does that mean that Wolverine is more powerful than the Phoenix? Or is she following him because its her prerogative to do so? What awful logic

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Forgot to address this one.

Whatever universe each cube came from does not matter. What are you trying to pull here really. The cosmic cubes powers come from the beyond realm. It shouldn't matter that one is from 616 and another from some different reality.

Nice try with warping the facts.

Another example of you trying to play smarter than you actually are.

The Beyond Realm is a pocket dimension accessible through the Negative Zone. Funnily enough as we saw in Ultimate Fantastic Four last year it appears that each universe has a Negative Zone or at least there is certainly more than one. With that in mind you cannot be certain that there is only one Beyond Realm or that all the cosmic cubes possessed the same level of power.

Regardless a cubes power and efficiency is dependent on the user. As aforementioned Magus couldve just made better use of his five.



Thats enough for now.

Good day to you

- GS

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In Thanos Quest two it states that the Infinity Beings power manifested as the current universe and that the Infinity Gems were the core of this power reincarnated and they were conduits for said power. Therefore the I Gems tap into the power of the 616 universe.

What has LT comments pertaining to the scale of that potential battle got to do with the stated power source of the IG? Changes not a thing.


You just love to twist around facts Galactic Storm.

Here "sonny", let me help you out there. I beleive this is the quote you were referring to:

Thanos tells the Runner, "From its ashes rose all that is currently reality, in all its many forms" Notice he did NOT say "this reality". He said "currently reality". Meaning all that exists !

NOW...let's go back a page ! Let us see how Thanos describes the IG being to the Runner in Thanos Quest, shall we?

"They (IG) were once a Single Unit. A Lone Entity. They were a Sentient Being of LIMITLESS POWER. AT THE TIME THIS BEING WAS THE ONLY LIVING THING THAT EXISTED WITHIN ANY AND ALL REALITIES" HENCE proving the IG BEING to be multiversal, not universal.

Finally GS, let's review the other descriptions Thanos used to characterize this being:

1) It was all that was and all that was was it

2) This being was Infinity and Forever

3) No one would fault you if you were to call it GOD. What other name would fit?



Enough of your Ig being only universal arguments. Everything I wrote is not even close to everything that Mr. Master PROVED in terms of IG being multiversal and not universal. There is enough evidense in this post ALONE to end most speculation, yet you do not except CLEAR FACTS. Get over it GS....IG is above Pheonix Force. Pheonix is cool, powerful, and gorgeous...but she don't hold a candle to IG...whether it be Infinity Gauntlet Saga, Infinity War, or Even Thanos Quest...she don't compare in terms of potentiality.

Again...enough BULLshit

Based on the ON PANEL FACTS.

In the Marvel Multiverse

1. TOAA
:Obviously:

2. HOTU
:Absorbed LT: nuff said...

3. Living Tribunal
:Because he's above the IG(like I proved in this thread)

4. IG
:Because it controlled the energies of the Ultimate Nullifier:

5. Ultimate Nullifier
:Obliterated and Remade the Multiverse in the blink of an eye.

6. Abraxas(he can only manifest...if one of the Galactus's in Multi-verse die).
:Because only the UN can kill him:

7. Multi-Eternity/Multi-Infinity(embodiments of the Multiverse/Time&Space)
:Because it's their Multiverse, Because they are the Multiverse, because they make up an infinite number of Universes(as you saw in the Cosmic Vortex)without them there's nothing, Because a Single Big Bang takes place in their immensity all the time. An entire Universe is infinitesimal in comparison to them.

8. Phoenix Force/Eternity/Infinity/Entropy/Death

9. Rest of the abstracts and so on.

Phoenix Force Greatest Feats:

1.:REPAIRING the M'Kraan Crystal:

When she did this(ON PANEL)the Crystal was a UNIVERSAL THREAT!...and it hadn't even been released when Phoenix REPAIRED IT......NOT contained it.

This Scan actually puts to rest the whole Mkraan Crystal event issue,
once thought to be the greatest feat for ol' GS in Marvel, LOL...but in fact...it was just a Universe that Phoenix saved. Here's the close up:
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1361/mkraancrystalevent8lt.th.jpg

The MKraan Crystal As the Nexus of all Realities, the Crystal can allow travel between universes, but opening the Crystal could cause the mass of the neutron galaxy inside to suck in the entire universe and cause a chain-reaction across the multiverse, destroying all universes in existence.

Sounds like Wanda's Chaos Wave.....How anyone came to the conclusion that the Crystal is a Multiversal reset switch or whatever is beyond me.

2.:REPAIRING the Damage to an Orphan Universe:

She did NOT RESTRUCTURE or WARP or REMADE this "Orphan Universe"...she REPAIRED it....yes....the DAMAGE atom by atom.
http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/3498/pffixjq6.th.jpg
Contrary to the ridiculous exaggeration that has been pumped about this feat by you know who....challenge the scan all you want.

3.:Projecting the Excalibur Tower across the multiverse VIA the Interfaces across the Multiverse that were Aligned.

This is before the Phoenix even came into the picture:
It clearly says 'when a series of interfaces across the Multiverse were aligned, the localized energy fields merged..to Create an Energy Matrix.'
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2029/tower12vr2dv.th.jpg
The Energy fields merge ON THEIR OWN...and the Interfaces across the Mulitverse align BY THEMSELVES...

AT the MOMENT of ALIGNMENT, THEN Feron called Phoenix to project the Tower", a less than monumental feat...considering it was the Energy Matrix(ON IT"S OWN)that allowes simultaneous existence in the Multiverse when the Interfaces Across are Aligned, Which Also happens ON it's OWN.....
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1399/tower26ug4lz.th.jpg

While Necrom and Feron had fought, MERLYN had JUMPED INTO the Energy Matrix...
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2397/matrix4pm.th.jpg

He was swept across the Multiverse and was finally able to control the Energy Matrix and created Otherworld.
At Otherworld Merlyn, along with his daughter Roma, over-looked the Multiverse.
http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/4817/matrix26rc.th.jpg

MERLYN repaired the Energy Matrix which now has a permanent flow.....NOT Phoenix.

that should end this tread

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You just love to twist around facts Galactic Storm.

Here "sonny", let me help you out there. I beleive this is the quote you were referring to:

Thanos tells the Runner, "From its ashes rose all that is currently reality, in all its many forms" Notice he did NOT say "this reality". He said "currently reality". Meaning all that exists !

NOW...let's go back a page ! Let us see how Thanos describes the IG being to the Runner in Thanos Quest, shall we?

"They (IG) were once a Single Unit. A Lone Entity. They were a Sentient Being of LIMITLESS POWER. AT THE TIME THIS BEING WAS THE ONLY LIVING THING THAT EXISTED WITHIN ANY AND ALL REALITIES" HENCE proving the IG BEING to be multiversal, not universal.

Finally GS, let's review the other descriptions Thanos used to characterize this being:

1) It was all that was and all that was was it

2) This being was Infinity and Forever

3) No one would fault you if you were to call it GOD. What other name would fit?



Enough of your Ig being only universal arguments. Everything I wrote is not even close to everything that Mr. Master PROVED in terms of IG being multiversal and not universal. There is enough evidense in this post ALONE to end most speculation, yet you do not except CLEAR FACTS. Get over it GS....IG is above Pheonix Force. Pheonix is cool, powerful, and gorgeous...but she don't hold a candle to IG...whether it be Infinity Gauntlet Saga, Infinity War, or Even Thanos Quest...she don't compare in terms of potentiality.

I figured that I would provide scans for Lord Urizen. The scans should be large and clear enough so that everyone can actually read the wording. That way everyone can come to their own conclusion to what the words actually mean.



http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2593/thanosquest213pr1.th.jpg


http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/514/thanosquest214yz2.th.jpg

so thanos basically say that the infinity being is exactly like TOAA

Ummmmm

Restating your opinion again and again after its already been thrashed doesnt make it any truer the gazillionth time around.

For the truth behind the energy matrix all interested visit here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=410642&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=28

As for the M'kraan crystal incident, there is only one crystal in the multiverse and it can and has blinked out all existence in an energy wave. Jeans actions saw that the wave didnt get a chance to affect the rest of the multiverse, meaning that while she first and foremost saved her universe, she ultimately held back a power which can and has wiped out the multiverse. It was a multiversal power she held in check and prevented from wiping her universe. Multiversal feat.

Heres an old post on the matter:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm



The crystal is a multiversal force. When it is tampered with in one reality a wave of power sweeps across the multiverse blinking out reality after reality eventually causing all realities to collapse. Phoenixes actions halted this wave, effectively saving the entire multiverse.

Highlighting the fact that the crystal only got to effect 616 and then trying to refer to that as a universal feat is a futile exercise given that

a) That was only the case because of Phoenixes intervention

b) There is only one crystal, the wave of energy stems from one source, so whether Phoenix contained the power in 616 or after it had passed through another reality it is irrelevant. The power she contained was multiversal and can and has wiped out the multiverse. Multiversal feat.


This same crystal was considered by Pre retcon Beyonder (Uncanny X-men 203) to have the power to revert him back to his primal state.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19511393773.jpg&s=f10

Given that the crystal has on panel been shown (X-men adventures 12) destroying the previous multiverse and going by Beyonders anger when Rachel decided not to use the crystal to end his time as a physical being there is no reason to doubt Beyonders opinion of the crystals power. All in all Phoenixes containment of the power is with that in mind made to look even more impressive.

For the truth behind the repairing of the orphan universe which Mr Master funnily enough refuses to acknowledge is 616 (highlighting the fact that he hasnt read the comic he's arguing over and therefore highlighting also his arrogance) heres an old post on the matter that has yet to be addressed:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm



Here Comes Tomorrow was 616 150 years in the future. She cut this future away as a result separating 616 from its parent in the"megasystem" as stated on panel. Hence why it was referred to as an orphan.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209533321.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209545011.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=7/18209562539.jpg&s=f5

She manipulated the "orphan universe" in the palm of her hand demonstrating control of it in its totality right down to the atomic level.

She then grew this universe a new future. How did she do this? She reached into the universe and changed Scotts reactions thereby growing the universe in her palm a new future.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=main/7/19518495268.jpg&s=f10

But hold up a sec. Isnt that 616?

Try and tell me or the others you know what youre talking about.


Love that post!!

yup

hmmm, read it. http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/cosmic_entities_marvel/nemesis.html

yes...
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/nemesise.htm

hmmm, it says that phoenix died and then got reborn with the universe.
http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/cosmic_entities_marvel/phoenix_force.html

Originally posted by bigbran
and lets just say there is more than one ig, ok, that would mean that the original beast that made the gems would be over everything!!!!
but no there is only one ig, and the full power of the gauntlet has never been tapped into!!!

But there isn't more than one...the others are fakes..not likt the original.

I proved GS wrong in another thread.

Their NOT the SAME Infinity Gauntlet! ANYWAY....some warped variation of the original.

Here Impossible Man RUNS away from the Cosmics with the Infinity Gauntlet...Surfer even warns him about Eternity....
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8502/im1kr0.th.jpg
Runs out of the Universe really.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/3703/im2md8.th.jpg
Impossible Man with the Infinity Gauntlet was only able to destroy a Galaxy....this is obviously not the same Gauntlet.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2417/im3jj5.th.jpg
Again...this really demonstrates how weak this OTHER Infinity Gauntlet is.
Here Impossible Man forces Galactus to help him Re-create his home world...and Silver Surfer is worried because Eternity is coming...who will crush Impossible Man and his Gauntlet.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4087/im4ll5.th.jpg
Here after Galactus Re-created his Impossible Man's world...he actually bargained the Gauntlet for this....he can destroy a Galaxy...but...he can't Re-create a Planet.
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/379/im5vr0.th.jpg

Impossible Man couldn't even create a Planet with this "Infinity Gauntlet"

Originally posted by Mr Master
But there isn't more than one...the others are fakes..not likt the original.

I proved GS wrong in another thread.

Their NOT the SAME Infinity Gauntlet! ANYWAY....some warped variation of the original.

Here Impossible Man RUNS away from the Cosmics with the Infinity Gauntlet...Surfer even warns him about Eternity....
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8502/im1kr0.th.jpg
Runs out of the Universe really.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/3703/im2md8.th.jpg
Impossible Man with the Infinity Gauntlet was only able to destroy a Galaxy....this is obviously not the same Gauntlet.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2417/im3jj5.th.jpg
Again...this really demonstrates how weak this OTHER Infinity Gauntlet is.
Here Impossible Man forces Galactus to help him Re-create his home world...and Silver Surfer is worried because Eternity is coming...who will crush Impossible Man and his Gauntlet.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4087/im4ll5.th.jpg
Here after Galactus Re-created his Impossible Man's world...he actually bargained the Gauntlet for this....he can destroy a Galaxy...but...he can't Re-create a Planet.
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/379/im5vr0.th.jpg

Impossible Man couldn't even create a Planet with this "Infinity Gauntlet" i know there isnt more than one, i was justsaying if there was more than one.

would it make sense that there is one set for every reality but each nothing compared to the original...thus show that the infinity being really is all powerful?

Originally posted by bbrem123
would it make sense that there is one set for every reality but each nothing compared to the original...thus show that the infinity being really is all powerful?

That makes sense.

Yah. Imagine this. Each is a fraction of the power of the original being.
Its just that some have been imparted with more power than others.

Personally I still think the WHOLE IG was still only a fraction of the power of the original Infinity Being. It was made it from its core, but I don't think the comic said it was his whole power. Just his power.

I could be wrong.

Does make sense though.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im sorry but where in that quote was a statement defining the Infinity Beings demise as the thing that created the multiverse?

I never said he created the Multiverse. I stated the evidense that IG being is multiversal.



Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I see no pluralisation. No conclusive definition or depiction of his death resulting in the formation of all realities, of a multiverse. All that is current reality is mentioned as a consequence. That however can be interpreted as either just 616 which is the current reality or it can be understandably be interpreted as the multiverse.


Correction: All that is CURRENTLY reality, not current reality, Current reality would indicate one universe. All that is currently reality implies all that is real as of now, all that exists. The quotes Thanos spoke that I already listed already are claims that the IG is multiversal in nature, not just universal. You seem to ignore that every convienently.



Originally posted by GalacticStorm
However given that

a) the line is open to interpretation



Not when it contains verbal clarity. The descriptions and limitations of IG are up to interpretation due to current retcon and different character's analysis of IG. However, one thing remained Constant for a time being in all character's depiction. IG makes you God....Thanos already claimed IG made him God of every universe that existed.....that should end the debate right there.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
b) there is no other conclusive reference or depiction pertaining to the I Being being multiversal

Sure there is. Mr. Master already provided numerous evidence, more than I myself was able to put out. However, mine was more than enough to validify IG's multiversal omnipotent potential, yet do to your "I love Pheonix" bias, you fail to see what's in front of you.



Originally posted by GalacticStorm
c) The IG has performed no feats greater than the Universal

I think Mr. Master begs to differ....



Originally posted by GalacticStorm
d) With the IG Thanos saw his ultimate goal achieved when he supplanted Eternitys position in the Infinity Gauntlet series

That was not his Ultamate Goal. His Ultamate Goal was to win over Mistress Death, the only goal he failed to accomplish. Becoming Eternity was a self-induced excuse as even Adam Warlock told Thanos, how he LET himself lose by allowing Nebula to take the Gauntlet. That was an oppurtunity to defeat himself, since he felt unworthy of being that possessing that kind of power.

Becoming Eternity was lowering himself, indulging a curiosity, and intentionally defeating himself. It was definately NOT the Ultamate Goal, and the fact that you FAILED to recognize that is pathetic.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
e) The Gems which are said to be reincarnations of the I beings might are referred to as the darkest secret of the universe


And.....? It was the darkest secret in the universe....since IG was for whatever reason only existant within that universe.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
f) The IG had no power over Maelstrom, avatar of the universal abstract Oblivion:


ACtually Thanos stood a huge chance, and eventually defeated him. Mealstrom had the Anamoly, another omnipotent-like weapon, which eventually was subdued by Thanos with IG


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Plus the existence of What If Silver Surfer had the IG and What If Impossible Man had the IG (Please do a google search if it pleases you to do so.)

What If's don't count for shit....how low an argument can you make??

I have an issue of Silver Surfer which took place during the IG Saga, where Thanos created Necronos and defeated everyone, even the cosmics..easily....and Surfer was witness to the horrors Thanos unleashed.

Evidently, this was an Alternate Reality that Thanos created, one where Mistress Death loved him, and where he honored her for as long as this fantasy-reality existed.

Talk about extending your power to more than one universe.

Originally posted by bigbran
hmmm, noone knows what happened to maelstrom in that post.

What do you mean noone knows what happened to Maelstrom?
As you saw in the scan Thanos' blast did nothing and the Maelstrom flew off going about his business. That scan was posted to show how ineffective the supposedly multiversal IG is against an avatar of a universal abstract. If you want to know the rest of the story as i posted previously here is a link to the handbook writers site:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/maelstrom.htm

Please take note of the fact that as stated in the issue summaries and by myself Thanos' attack did nothing. Maelstrom went about his business.

This point is no longer debatable. I have posted the scan where the incident happened and i have given you a link to a reputable source verifying my account. I will here no more on the matter. If you stubbornly wish to see more for yourselves obtain a copy of Quasar 24.

Originally posted by bigbran
and where in the second scan with the sun does it say thanos has the ig, where???!!?!?!?!? hmmm, i dont see it, but i guess you do.....

Youre quite correct, there was no mention of the Infinity Gauntlet but considering the point of posting that scene was to show the IG exists in other realities while it has failed in that account, that is irrelevant considering the number of What Ifs ive mentioned which prove the IG exists in other realities.


Originally posted by bigbran
and you think you can pull out one scan, that even if it did show that there were more igs(even though it didnt say it) that you can prove there is more than one. after all those scans.

What on earth are you waffling about? The What Ifs i referred to are instances in other realities where characters have obtained the Gauntlet of their realities. There conclusively is more than one IG, the Gauntlet of 616 therefore is conclusively not multiversal in nature as was being claimed.

What do you mean after all of those scans?

What exactly did those scans show? Nothing multiversal thats for sure. Showing feats you personally dont think should be achievable by a universal power DOES NOT equate to you proving that the IG is multiversal. Those scans showed the IG is a powerful weapon. One with which a reality can be conquered, but thats it. Nowhere has it displayed a feat where its power is applied across all realities of the multiverse. Guess what means? You boys aint got shit


Originally posted by bigbran
so a being that lived in all realities, made 6 gems out of its own power(or 7 gems) those 6 gems were each a peice of the beast's power, and lets just say there is more than one ig, ok, that would mean that the original beast that made the gems would be over everything!!!!
but no there is only one ig, and the full power of the gauntlet has never been tapped into!!!

Stop right there sonny!! The I Being didnt live in all realities, the I Being at one point was the only being alive in the multiverse. I quote : "This being was the only living thing that existed in any and all realities." All that means is that either he was the first being to come about after the multiverse was formed or perhaps there was a destructive event and he was left the lone survivor. Who knows? What we do know for a fact is that as there is more than one IG in different realities and the 6 I Gems are said to form a single unit making the I Being, the I Being is NOT multiversal.

Originally posted by bigbran
hmmm, it says that phoenix died and then got reborn with the universe.
http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/cosmic_entities_marvel/phoenix_force.html

Your reliance on fansites goes some way into explaining the content of your posts.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But there isn't more than one...the others are fakes..not likt the original.

I proved GS wrong in another thread.

Their NOT the SAME Infinity Gauntlet! ANYWAY....some warped variation of the original.

Here Impossible Man RUNS away from the Cosmics with the Infinity Gauntlet...Surfer even warns him about Eternity....
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8502/im1kr0.th.jpg
Runs out of the Universe really.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/3703/im2md8.th.jpg
Impossible Man with the Infinity Gauntlet was only able to destroy a Galaxy....this is obviously not the same Gauntlet.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2417/im3jj5.th.jpg
Again...this really demonstrates how weak this OTHER Infinity Gauntlet is.
Here Impossible Man forces Galactus to help him Re-create his home world...and Silver Surfer is worried because Eternity is coming...who will crush Impossible Man and his Gauntlet.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4087/im4ll5.th.jpg
Here after Galactus Re-created his Impossible Man's world...he actually bargained the Gauntlet for this....he can destroy a Galaxy...but...he can't Re-create a Planet.
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/379/im5vr0.th.jpg

Impossible Man couldn't even create a Planet with this "Infinity Gauntlet"


You proved me wrong? How on earth did you do that mate?

Bullishly stating your unproven opinion on to threads does NOT equate to proving anything.

The Ig as proven by the What Ifs exists in alternate dimensions. The 6 I Gems as stated form a single entity, the I Being as stated in Thanos Quest and as stated again in UltraForce/Avengers. The fact that Gauntlets exist in other realities cocnlusively proves that both the I Being and the therefore the Gems are very much universal.

No opinion, just the facts.

- GS

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Stop right there sonny!! The I Being didnt live in all realities, the I Being at one point was the only being alive in the multiverse. I quote : "This being was the only living thing that existed in any and all realities." All that means is that either he was the first being to come about after the multiverse was formed or perhaps there was a destructive event and he was left the lone survivor. Who knows? What we do know for a fact is that as there is more than one IG in different realities and the 6 I Gems are said to form a single unit making the I Being, the I Being is NOT multiversal.

u have no evidence that the Infinity Being is not multiversal

What remained unknown to all but the most powerful cosmic beings is the fact that the gems were actually the remains of a once omnipotent being whose domain was any and all realities

im pretty sure hes multiversal

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You proved me wrong? How on earth did you do that mate?

Bullishly stating your unproven opinion on to threads does NOT equate to proving anything.

The Ig as proven by the What Ifs exists in alternate dimensions. The 6 I Gems as stated form a single entity, the I Being as stated in Thanos Quest and as stated again in UltraForce/Avengers. The fact that Gauntlets exist in other realities cocnlusively proves that both the I Being and the therefore the Gems are very much universal.

No opinion, just the facts.

- GS
how is the infinity being universal if as u say he created a set of gems for each reality?

Originally posted by bbrem123
u have no evidence that the Infinity Being is not multiversal

What remained unknown to all but the most powerful cosmic beings is the fact that the gems were actually the remains of a once omnipotent being whose domain was any and all realities

im pretty sure hes multiversal

Umm not knowing about a long dead ancient entity doesnt equate to that entity being multiversal. Thats awful logic

Originally posted by bbrem123
how is the infinity being universal if as u say he created a set of gems for each reality?

He never created a set of gems for each reality. You really arent getting it are you?

The 6 gems make up the I Being. As stated they were formerly a single unit, formerly the I Being, left over after he killed himself. The fact that there are I Gems in other realities, tells you there were I Beings in other realities. It was conclusively NOT multiversal of the six gems make up an I Being as stated.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Umm not knowing about a long dead ancient entity doesnt equate to that entity being multiversal. Thats awful logic

i not talkin about not knowing about the IB...did u read what i posted
his domain is any and all realities

it ok we all make mistakes

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
He never created a set of gems for each reality. You really arent getting it are you?

The 6 gems make up the I Being. As stated they were formerly a single unit, formerly the I Being, left over after he killed himself. The fact that there are I Gems in other realities, tells you there were I Beings in other realities. It was conclusively NOT multiversal of the six gems make up an I Being as stated.

im not the one saying the is an IG in every reality u r

once again ur not reading the posts

Originally posted by bbrem123
i not talkin about not knowing about the IB...did u read what i posted
his domain is any and all realities

it ok we all make mistakes



The I Being we know of was at one point the only being living within the multiverse. That doesnt in itself equate to him being a multiversal power. At one point (pre retcon) Rachel Summers was the only Rachel Summers in the multiverse, did that equate to her being beyond any being or force who had counterparts across the multiverse?

She was multiversal in nature, not in power. The What Ifs went on to tell us that the I Being was not even multiversal in nature, it was not unique, it was not alone, there were other I Gems in other realities. On top of that the I Gauntlet has no feats beyond the universal and more importantly no feats greater than Phoenixes.

That sall for now

-GS

how can u say it was not alone or unique when it stats that everywhere

ur makin stuff up

it is stated that the IB is omnipotent and its domain is any and all realities

what r u talking about it not being powerful, look up the definition of omnipotent

Originally posted by bbrem123
how can u say it was not alone or unique when it stats that everywhere

ur makin stuff up

I will say this one more time because it really seems to be a tough job getting this through to you. Yes it stated that the I Being was alone, but that was later proved to be incorrect when I Gems were written as existing in other realities. By your logic Galactus is still the most powerful being in Marvel comics because it was stated once on panel by the Watcher in the 60's

I have referenced official sources which disprove your ideas about the I Being, stop telling me im wrong and go and check them out.

Things change sonny try and keep up!!

what r ur sources?

u havnt shown one yet

Originally posted by bbrem123
it is stated that the IB is omnipotent and its domain is any and all realities

what r u talking about it not being powerful, look up the definition of omnipotent


Ummmm "omnipotent" just like the terms limitless and invulnerable are thrown around in comics alllllllll the time. You would be very very naive to take them literally every time they are used in a comic book. By your logic the cosmic cubes are omnipotent even though they are below the likes of Galactus, the abstracts are omnipotent even though they are below the IG and LT is omnipotent even though he is below TOAA!!

Definition of omnipotent:

Omnipotent \Om*nip"o*tent\, a.
1. Able in every respect and for every work; unlimited in
ability; all-powerful; almighty; as, the Being that can
create worlds must be omnipotent. Being above all

See what i mean about not taking such terms literally all the time?


SHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Originally posted by bbrem123
what r ur sources?

Precisely my point. Youre still proceeding to argue your point and tell me im wrong despite not even bothering to read my posts which address your queries and disproves your inaccurate notions.

Take a lil look back and actually read the arguments presented. The links are to be found within.

i have many times and ur argument is not that good

no it doesnt...show me where it does

and the IB was stated omnipotent throughout any and all realities....thats as multiversal as u can get

Originally posted by bbrem123
i have many times and ur argument is not that good

no it doesnt...show me where it does

and the IB was stated omnipotent throughout any and all realities....thats as multiversal as u can get

Nope it was stated that he was alone in the multiverse at one point and that he was omnipotent. I have already showed you examples of why you are being very naive to take that term literally when there are powers with greater feats than the IG, statements depicting things as greater than it (Thanos) and a supreme being in Marvel.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope it was stated that he was alone in the multiverse at one point and that he was omnipotent. I have already showed you examples of why you are being very naive to take that term literally when there are powers with greater feats than the IG, statements depicting things as greater than it (Thanos) and a supreme being in Marvel.

show me again...and the LT domain is the multiversal and it is stated that he is omnipotent the same exact thing is said about the IB

ur twisting what is stated around to suit ur own theory

Originally posted by bbrem123
show me again...and the LT domain is the multiversal and it is stated that he is omnipotent the same exact thing is said about the IB

ur twisting what is stated around to suit ur own theory

LT is stated to be omnipotent but then he has a master greater than him therefore that conclusively is NOT true. When are you gonna get that point into your head

As for LTs domain being stated to be multiversal. NO!!! It is stated that he is a multiversal being, his nature is multiversal in that there is only one of him in existence. Just having your domain as the multiverse is a completely different thing and is not tied to power at all. The Exiles for example roam the multiverse. So dont try and liken what was stated about the I Being to what is established about LT.

Regardless of how you interpreted what was said about the I Being, it conclusively is not multiversal in nature, there wasnt just one I Being if there are sets of gems in other realities with each set (of six) stated on panel to make up the I Being.

On top of that the IG has no multiversal feats. Thats final. No room for opinion.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
LT is stated to be omnipotent but then he has a master greater than him therefore that conclusively is NOT true. When are you gonna get that point into your head

As for LTs domain being stated to be multiversal. NO!!! It is stated that he is a multiversal being, his nature is multiversal in that there is only one of him in existence. Just having your domain as the multiverse is a completely different thing and is not tied to power at all. The Exiles for example roam the multiverse. So dont try and liken what was stated about the I Being to what is established about LT.

Regardless of how you interpreted what was said about the I Being, it conclusively is not multiversal in nature, there wasnt just one I Being if there are sets of gems in other realities with each set (of six) stated on panel to make up the I Being.

On top of that the IG has no multiversal feats. Thats final. No room for opinion.

LT is omnipotent on a multversal scale where TOAA is omniversal

and ive already stated that the IB was everything that existed...so he had complete control over everything...u sure do miss alot when u read posts

http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?...mephisto8bo.jpg

all that was throughout infinity

Originally posted by bbrem123
http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?...mephisto8bo.jpg

all that was throughout infinity

And yet youre not addressing the fact even Eternity is said to be all that is when he is only universal. That is not conclusive proof my friend and quite understandably so. Youre not stupid i refuse to believe that youre just very stubborn.

Regardless you have no statement or depiction pertaining to the IG being multiversal in power. While it can be interpreted that the I Being WAS multiversal in nature the fact that What Ifs were later introduced featuring alternate reality versions of the IG conclusively lays that notion to rest if it ever was the case in the first place. Things change, please understand that. Stop referring to those I Being debut issues and relaying the information as if thats still all the case now. It conclusively is NOT and you have been told why and shown why.

it says that he was everything and it says his domain is any and all realities...u put it together

and there is much more evidence that shows the IG multiversal then the evidence u give to make it out to be only universal

Originally posted by bbrem123
it says that he was everything and it says his domain is any and all realities...u put it together

and there is much more evidence that shows the IG multiversal then the evidence u give to make it out to be only universal

You dont listen do you?

Times change!!! While what was stated in the I Beings comic debut COULD be interpreted into him being multiversal in nature, the fact that it was stated that the 6 gems make up the I Being and later on it was established that there were counterpart sets of gems in other realities completely sh*ts on that idea. It is conclusively not multiversal!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You dont listen do you?

Times change!!! While what was stated in the I Beings comic debut COULD be interpreted into him being multiversal in nature, the fact that it was stated that the 6 gems make up the I Being and later on it was established that there were counterpart sets of gems in other realities completely sh*ts on that idea. It is conclusively not multiversal!!

no...because they still stat that the IB was supreme in the crossover

the being was much different when it was reformed because now all the gems had there own conscious and the being could not function as a whole

Originally posted by bbrem123
no...because they still stat that the IB was supreme in the crossover

the being was much different when it was reformed because now all the gems had there own conscious and the being could not function as a whole

There you go again NOT listening.

By that crossover Phoenix had already been established as the Big Bang that ignites universes and the I Being was conclusively depicted as a being that was OF creation in that crossover. It might have been stated that he was supreme but thats where that taken such terms literally all the time point comes in again. Speaking of that remember that it had already been established prior to this title that the IG had counterparts in other realities therefore you lnow not to take it literally. I can show you recent scans of Galactus calling himself Supreme. Does that mean Galactus is literally supreme above all other beings?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
There you go again NOT listening.

By that crossover Phoenix had already been established as the Big Bang that ignites universes and the I Being was conclusively depicted as a being that was OF creation in that crossover. It might have been stated that he was supreme but thats where that taken such terms literally all the time point comes in again. Speaking of that remember that it had already been established prior to this title that the IG had counterparts in other realities therefore you lnow not to take it literally. I can show you recent scans of Galactus calling himself Supreme. Does that mean Galactus is literally supreme above all other beings?

no from the death of the IB it created our universe and maybe even the whole multiverse...galactus calls himself supreme but he has nothing to back it up with...but the IB does

and u have to get a better argument that they toss the meaning omnipotent around

i could say the same for the PF