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ZUES.........HADES.........POSIDEN.........APHRODITE..........ARIES.......
ILLIAD........ODYSSEY.........TROY.............HOMER............all that jazz!




THE OFFICIAL PLACE TO TALK ABOUT ALL OF THIS!


I will start (somethin easy)

Did you know that Oddysseus and Ulysses are the SAME person?

Odysseus and Ulysses are two essentially idenical names for the same person.

yes-Ulysses is the latin name for odysseus.....but is that why Home named the Odyssey the Odyssey? because it is the tales of Odysseus?

Because homer was Greek and the second name was interoduced after he died.

really? but people arent sure if homer is real. no wait......jk. they dont know if the stories he wrote are true

No. People aren't sure if he was real. His sotries may have just been attributed to him.

Clive Cussler wrote a fictional account of how Homer was a Celtic poet, writing about a war across the English Channel. The proper Troy has never been found, and the isalnd of "Ithaca" has no ruins on it...no evidence of human activity.

There are many Islands off the norhtern coast of France. Ones with unatrributed ruins. The bronze age relied on tin. TO make bronze its 90% copper (easily found all over) and 10% tin (rough estimates). However there are not a lot of tine mines around Greece and Europe in general. It makes perfect sense to have a war to try to take over those mines. Then the Odysseus yould be a journey across the Atlantic...and easy place to end up in the event of a bad storm if you were siling back to France.

The greeks then co-opted Homer's poem to their own "trojan war"

hmmmmm. Very interesting. But they have found ruins. So how do you know that everything Homer wrote about isnt true? It very well could be.

Ruins of what? On Ithaca....no. The proper city of Troy....no.

hmmm. and what about the trojan horse? was it actually a horse? because some researchers believe that it wasnt a horse, but a battleing ram. they believe that the greeks found the weekest place in the walls of troy, and used a BATTLEING RAM to knock down the walls, not a wooden horse. very difficult, if you ask me. because IF troy is a true city/country, i do believe that the walls surrounding the city would have been too strong to be just knocked down.

There's not much if any fact backing up Homer's account of the Torjan war. But its still a very entertaining tale...if you can keep your Ajaxes straight.

yeah thats true. so have you read either the Illiad or the Odyssey?

I listened to the Illiad on cassette ! when I was in middle school. I read the Odyssey in High school.

I also just read a two novel sci-fi interpretation of the Iliad...quite literally by Dan Simmons. (Ilium and Olympos)

Originally posted by Alliance
There's not much if any fact backing up Homer's account of the Torjan war. But its still a very entertaining tale...if you can keep your Ajaxes straight.

Oh come on...It's easy...Here's how you remember them:

There's Ajax the Sheep killer, and then there's Ajax the Lightning Rod.

Originally posted by OhILuvHP
hmmmmm. Very interesting. But they have found ruins. So how do you know that everything Homer wrote about isnt true? It very well could be.

The Iliad and Odyssey are taken from ancient sources...They've been changed and refined since the 9-6 BC....I doubt the story how we know it today ever really happened.

Indeed, highly unlikely that they happened in that way. Unless the archaeologists are finding things like the Scylla and not telling us. scared

It's all good storytelling. Like Beowulf and Gilgamesh.

Actually Troy did exist. It is believed by historians and archaeologists to lie in what is now known as present day 'the Dardenneles'.

The truth is Troy was invaded and burned down to the ground on many occasions. Being such an important city right in the middle of the Aegean, there was much incentive in who controlled the waterways.

Of course the whole tale of 'the face that launched a thousand ships' is just that a fairy tale. The Iliad, the Odyssey and all of Homer's other epic tales.

Zeus*, Posedion*

Anywho, while we're talking about all that Jazz, lets chat about less familiar ones, such as Aeneid, by Virgil.

The ultimate Trojan revenge, if you want to put it so.

I liked this book. Although it was an attempt to have the equivalent of the Odyssey, it is still a good read. As for historical accuracy....ha.

I think the idea that Homer was a Celtic writer is very unlikely. He was deffinitively Greek, and he spoke of the most important war.

I thought Troy was believed to have been where Turkey is today. Anyway, Aeneid by Virgil, confirms the idea of Troy being in ruins, people escaping nd building a totally new empire.
Somehow, I just can't see him taking such from the Celtic writer...it just seems too...odd.

Originally posted by Alliance
Ruins of what? On Ithaca....no. The proper city of Troy....no.

I have a homie who did time up in Ithaca.

Oh shit, we're talking mythology? nevermind.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness


I think the idea that Homer was a Celtic writer is very unlikely. He was deffinitively Greek, and he spoke of the most important war.



And what war was that? The war for Helen?...Eh, there's really no "solid" evidence that there was a war to begin with....As for Homer being Celtic, there's really no way to tell; after all his "stories" were passed down for hundreds of years. Who knows how they were altered.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
And what war was that? The war for Helen?...Eh, there's really no "solid" evidence that there was a war to begin with....As for Homer being Celtic, there's really no way to tell; after all his "stories" were passed down for hundreds of years. Who knows how they were altered.

Um, no.

Unless you think every other play writer after Homer was ''Celt' Homer was GREEK.

Let me guess, Euripides might have been a Celt too?! Aristophanes too?


That idea Homer being Celtic is very stupid, and supported by absolutely nothing.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I have a homie who did time up in Ithaca.

Oh shit, we're talking mythology? nevermind.



Sorry man I dont mean any disrespect its just how you dropped it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Um, no.

Unless you think every other play writer after Homer was ''Celt' Homer was GREEK.

Let me guess, Euripides might have been a Celt too?! Aristophanes too?


That idea Homer being Celtic is very stupid, and supported by absolutely nothing.

As is the idea of him actually existing.

He could have been non-existant -

In fact he could have been, a woman, blind, mythological, non-existant, alien, God, zombie, or Spartan, BEFORE he could have ever been Celt.

I said that this argument was put forth in a piece of fiction. The author tired to make sense out of a mythological war. Anyone who is reading too far into this needs to stop.

And Homer was supposed to be blind.

Originally posted by Darth Macabre
And what war was that? The war for Helen?...Eh, there's really no "solid" evidence that there was a war to begin with....As for Homer being Celtic, there's really no way to tell; after all his "stories" were passed down for hundreds of years. Who knows how they were altered.
There is a historical precedent for a war being fought over an injustice done to a king. In the 14th century B.C., the Hittite king received a letter from the Egyptian queen. She said her husband had died and asked the Hittite king if he could send a son for her to marry.

The Hittite eventually agreed and sent one of his sons. On his way to Egypt, however, the prince was killed. Believing the Egyptians killed him, the Hittites declared war on Egypt.

If the Hittites and the Egyptians could go to war in the 14th century over the son of the king, why wouldn' t the Mycenaeans and Trojans go to war less than a hundred years later because the king' s wife has been kidnapped? Anyhow, at the moment, there is no supporting data for a war being fought over Helen.

Well in the end its all a exuse, Maybe it was relly over Troy's oil lol.

Originally posted by Storm
There is a historical precedent for a war being fought over an injustice done to a king. In the 14th century B.C., the Hittite king received a letter from the Egyptian queen. She said her husband had died and asked the Hittite king if he could send a son for her to marry.

The Hittite eventually agreed and sent one of his sons. On his way to Egypt, however, the prince was killed. Believing the Egyptians killed him, the Hittites declared war on Egypt.

If the Hittites and the Egyptians could go to war in the 14th century over the son of the king, why wouldn' t the Mycenaeans and Trojans go to war less than a hundred years later because the king' s wife has been kidnapped? Anyhow, at the moment, there is no supporting data for a war being fought over Helen.

Not to mention that Troy would give the Myceneans a foothold in Asia Minor and easy control of the Bosporus (one of the most essential/profitable aquatic trade route in the mediterranean throught history).

There was much to be gained by conquereing Troy.

Archaeologists who have been digging into the myth of Homer believe the legendary war may have been a process rather than a single event.

This reminds me of a trivia my professor told us. Schliemann would have tampered with artifacts supposedly found at the site. He has been suspected of salting his sites with purchased or faked (manufactured) antiquities.

Well, the war was supposed to be 10 years to begin with...which is rather unlikely. Thats almost the same length of time as Alexander III's campaign across Asia.

Archaeological and textual evidence would indicate that a Trojan war or wars took place, but that Homer chose to write about one or more of them by making it into a great ten-year-long saga.

It is unlikely that the events of the Trojan War happened as written by Homer. One problem is the lack of archaeological evidence suggesting its validity. Another problem is the dependence on an oral tradition of passing along stories. The story of the Iliad was originally passed down orally from generation to generation. Over time, events get added or taken away....until much truth gets lost or severely watered down.

Not long after the Trojan War...the land of Greece entered into a Dark Age, with no written accounts of its history. The writing system of most Greeks, Linear A and Linear B had become lost due to non-use. The Greeks eventually derived a new alphabet through trade with the Phoenicians, hence a change in the language.

Even if written evidence is found supporting the Trojan War...it is not likely that modern archaeologists will understand its meaning, since we can't decipher Linear A or B transcripts. The Greeks at that time would have written in that language.

Anyway, it is unlikely that we will ever know the true story of Troy. Unless another Rosetta Stone is unearthed..lol

well to support the war actually happening, I saw a documentary on Discovery channel some time ago, where they had computers redo all the battles Homer described.

They went exactly like he described. Very unlikely that somebody can describe a few battles that never happened into great detail.

Originally posted by Fishy
well to support the war actually happening, I saw a documentary on Discovery channel some time ago, where they had computers redo all the battles Homer described.

They went exactly like he described. Very unlikely that somebody can describe a few battles that never happened into great detail.

yeah, I remember watching that also. Interesting program.

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