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I made this thread for lightsnake since he insists on concluding his arguments with "Yoda is uber the text says so". I think we all know where this one goes but for the sake of humor, lets try it.

Yoda: Declared strongest Jedi ever...the strongest the Jedi order ever produced, mastered all defenses and offensive techniques of the lightside and the best saber duelist of the Golden age.

Open and shut, Kunny cakes dies hard

Lets see..
My Logic:
Exar Kun's amulet blasts and his mastery over the lightsaber..

Lightsnake's logic:

"Yoda is the most uber ever, it states so.."

Sith amulets= fallible. And exar's arrogance would prevente him from using it. Or Yoda'd simply deflect it. And Yoda's the top saber master in the time when Jedi dueling was at its peak

Ah now Sith Amulets are fallible! Wonderful logic. And Exar's arrogance? Lightsnake you have lost all logic.. Yoda would deflect it? LOL

They are. hoth defeated Kaan when Kaan was using one.

Amulets are different lightsnake. Your desperation argument is defeated.

"He's using a Sith Amulet, they're deadly!"
From DLOTS.

I suppose the Sith made them for ornaments...

Considering only 1-2 of them worked out of the thousands other sith lords have and werent shown to use, then you have no argument. It's ridiculous to even assume Yoda could deflect his blast..

Why? When did we ever see the amulet used on another Jedi?

Hmm when have we seen Emerald lightning work on anybody but the Vong? Your argument is getting more desperate every time lightsnake, I suggest you stop because you're digging yourself a hole.

The Kiliks?

oh guys, if anybody wants proof of lightsnake's denial and the fact that he spends too much time on ths forum, can never admit he's wrong, and just starts going crazy when he is because he can't sleep at night, here you go..

Debnath: You lose. You lose. You lose.
**** off, you whiny brat
Note that he was the one crying for about 15 minutes..
^This all happened after I shot down his argument numerous times, and he started making stuff up, adding ridiculous sources, and acting like a little child.. It was actually funny.. Too easy.

This debate is pretty hilarious. I don't want to get involved and ruin it. LOL.

But yes, Exar Kun would win. Okay Lightsnake, Yoda's the "strongest foe the darkness has ever known" - my answer to that is so what? Exar Kun destroyed the most powerful Jedi of his era, and I've yet to see any other Jedi that would be able to stop of him. Up to the PT era - Yoda's the only one.

And where does it say he's mastered every technique of the Lightside? That's pretty weird, because I seem to remember the arthritis muppet falling about ten stories to the ground courtesy of Darth Sidious, and limping away. Granted he's superior to Sidious, but nothing saved him. If he had all those techniques why not use one or two?

Oh and LOGIC is BACK in this forum. I don't want to flame lightsnake more than he has flamed himself, but Sama, expect a bunch of ambiguous text saying that "Yoda can defeat any sith ever, Yoda is uber, etc".

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
proof of lightsnake's denial and the fact that he spends too much time on ths forum

Lightsanke's been at this forum just under 7 months and has posted 3436 times. You have been registered for 3 days and have posted 467 times...

Power of the Jedi, Motoko, and I'd well argue Thon or Vima were stronger than any other Jedi of the time. And he's also the strongest in the force the Order had produced. And why didn't Count Dooku tell Anakin the truth and save his life? Why didn't sidious or Mace use the force in their fights? Why didn't Exar use the force against Ulic?

Yoda', unlike Kun has had, what, over 900 years? And he was still fighting? Yoda could've beaten any one else, but according to him: "The Sith had changed. They could no longer be burned away with a lightsaber or chased away with the Force. How could one fight the Darkness when the darkness had made war itself a weapon?"

As a saber duelist? Yoda stood top of the line at the golden age of dueling. At powers? Yoda stood top in power. I don't see how Exar's as strong as Yoda. Or more skilled. Yoda was blasted back after pushing Sidious's lightning back at him...neither of them were in top top shape after that, I doubt anyone can hit an explosion point blank and instantly do something. Last I checked, when Kun caught an explosion full on, it ended with him pleading with Nadd. And I'm rather certain Yoda believes the lightside works far more defensive than offensive

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Power of the Jedi, Motoko,

Quote?



Yes, I'd like to see the quadruped swing a saber, afterall not having hands might cause a problem.



Vima's a possibility. Nevertheless, Exar Kun > Vima.



And Exar Kun is the strongest in the Force of that entire era.



Because Dooku isn't a coward? Or rather I should say he'd have been killed by Palpatine either way.



Mace wasn't trying to kill Sidious, since he'd originally came to arrest him (even though that could easily be argued), and didn't you argue Sidious was holding back? I don't hold that opinion, but you kind of answered your own question.



Because they were interrupted in their match by...oh I don't know, let's say - the spirit of Marka Ragnos.



Vodo, unlike Kun, has had what, over 600 years? And he was still fighting? Odan, unlike Kun, had had what, over 1000 years?

Seems their years didn't save him, eh?



Beaten anyone else? That's quite a leap considering he's only slightly superior to Sidious, and Mace/Depa/Dooku/Anakin can contend with him.



Firstly, as I said above, yeah he's the top of the PT - no doubt. He's the top of the line for Jedi. However, he's not leagues above everyone - the list above is people that can contend with him, and give him a fight. Considering Exar Kun is > than all the aforementioned, it gives him a nice chance.

And btw, didn't you admit Exar Kun > DE Sidious in lightsaber ability once when we were chatting on AIM? If that wasn't you, don't mind it (it was awhile ago).



Exar Kun stood at the top of power as well! What a surprise. He's demonstrated far more impressive skills with Sadow's amulets, Sith alchemy and magic, and on top of all that he uses a double bladed lightsaber combined with Makashi, you know - the lightsaber to lightsaber form.

We know Thon killed an extremely powerful Sith or Dark Jedi. And Yoda is simply called the strongest the Jedi Order had produced. And Dooku not a coward? Dooku was terrified , he was described as 'silently pleading' with Anakin.

Last time I checked, Kun had a good while before Marka appeared during the big duel with Ulic. And yeah, no denying Exar has a nice chance, but so does Yoda. Yoda is the strongest Jedi Master bar none and the strongest in the Jedi Golden Age

And that's what Yoda saw during their little lightning wrestle.
...and no, I most certainly didn't concede Kun>Palpatine with a saber...I said maybe by ROTS or the OT, but not when Sidious is in his young body.
And since, according to Lucas-as I got from Nai and Escape-, the PT era is the Jedi GOLDEN AGE...And Kun wasn't a Makashi user, that was falsified info. Yoda is the strongest of the stronger era.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
We know Thon killed an extremely powerful Sith or Dark Jedi.

And we all know Odan stripped Ancient Sith of their Force powers. Sadly, that wasn't enough to stop Exar Kun.



Does that mean he's stronger than everyone because of that? If I may remind you, Exar Kun doesn't belong to the Jedi Order.



Well he kind of is, that's why I edited it before you replied.



Nevertheless, it wouldn't matter - he wouldn't open his mouth because Palpatine would've then killed him either way.



I seem to remember their lightsabers clashing for one page before being interrupted.



True, true.



Alright, and Odan's death is described as "leaving the darkest power in the galaxy to walk away with something that will make him even stronger" referring to Kun of course.



We saw Yoda deflecting Force lightning, and that's Force lightning that doesn't even instantly kill the receiver and throwing a pod back at Sidious. We've seen Exar Kun execute blasts through temple walls, tear through a Sith Wyrm, and Massassi.



As I said, disregard it if it wasn't you.



Good enough considering Sidious is hardly that far behind Yoda in saber skills.



'Kay? What does the "Golden Age of Jedi" have to do with Yoda > Kun, lol. I've already conceded that Yoda > all other Jedi.



I didn't know that, so I apologize. Haven't been here in a month and was just going by that article you provided. I figured he didn't use Makashi considering he uses hammer strikes half the time.



And Kun is the more powerful than every Sith out of that "stronger era". One includes Darth Sidious, who you know - is basically second of that era.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Power of the Jedi

Where? It's definitely not under Yoda's profile. All I see is 'perhaps only Master Mace Windu equeled him in skill and reputation'.

That's because as a whole Ancients are nothing special.

If I may remind you, exar is stilled produced by the Jedi Order...it doesn't matter what he became: The Jedi Order produced him.

We know Kun was the darkest power in the galaxy at that point...Yoda's still the strongest Jedi master up until the PT. And force lightning has different levels and ONLY the strongest of the Jedi masters are capable of deflecting lightning with their bare hands.

Why would Exar let it come to a duel? I think it was more like two anyways...however, comics are inconclusive to how long duels go on.


How do you know Exar's stronger than the Sith of the 'stronger' era? we just know he was the strongest of his time. We have no idea if he's stronger than Plagueis. And KJA doesn't seem to think Exar is stronger than Sidious. He said if they were to fight, we might find out who the strongest Sith is. LFL's position on the matter is thus far, mum, so I only managed to get KJA and Veitch's opinion nd next to Sidious and the true powers of the Sith, Veitch said Kun was an adept with a big ego

Exarwins if this is Exar with the amulent. One blast and bye-bye Yoda.

Or, y'know, realistically, yoda deflects or avoids it...but no, it's TEH SITH AMULET! Nevermind Kaan had a huge collection of them and got his ass kicked by Hoth!

When did they fight?

The battle of Hoth, I believe

Source?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's because as a whole Ancients are nothing special.

Nonetheless, the point basically was Thon killing a mystery man doesn't make him a top competitor for being the strongest Jedi of the era, nor in the same league as Kun.



What writing is that said in? That's he's the best ever "produced"?

And really, he was a padawan when he left, he followed about zero of the Jedi ways - I'd hardly say they "produced" Exar Kun. The Ancient Sith teachings turned Kun into a "formidable student" to the strongest of the era.



Yeah...



Considering Yoda is the strongest Jedi Master up the the Prequels, then it makes sense. However, I've yet to hear of the strongest Jedi Masters being able to stop amulet blasts - created by the Force, powered by rage - that tear through temple walls with their bare hands.



Yeah, I guess he could just replace Yoda's body with debris using those fine amulets of Sadow's.



Yeah (it was one and a half really), but you're right - and it doesn't matter anyways.



Because the only real competitor is Sidious. Dooku was bested by Anakin, and Anakin - well, Sidious > ROTS Anakin.



Yeah, but Plagueis isn't a factor considering we know 2.3% of his life story.



A neutral stand point, nothing wrong with that.



And all it's just an opinion as you said, as valid as mine.

SW gamer, Dark Forces Saga and Darkness Shared may make a mention of it.

OK. Anything in the NEC?

I'm at college so I don't have it close at hand atm

Lightsnake, you can give all the sources in the world, all the bullshit all the opinions, and at the very end it'll take 1 amulet blast to disintegrate Yoda. Unless of course you're going to tell us Yoda can deflect it and/or defeat Kun in lightsaber battle in which I will respond with "you're insane".

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That's because as a whole Ancients are nothing special.


We know Kun was the darkest power in the galaxy at that point...Yoda's still the strongest Jedi master up until the PT. And force lightning has different levels and ONLY the strongest of the Jedi masters are capable of deflecting lightning with their bare hands.




Just one thing I want to point out to further prove my point..

So let me get this straight lightsnake. Force lightning has different levels but Force Drain doesn't? Or is it possible that you spew out whatever nonsense you can to help your argument, no matter how ridiculous it seems. I don't call myself a master debator but I know when I'm beat, you apparently live in denial and produce outrageous quotes/statements, ambiguous text, childish demeanor, and just straight up ridicule... Come on lightsnake seriously.

Exar was hardly a padawan, to the best evidence, he was a knight.

And the one Thon killed wiped out all life om Abria...and Thon knew even taught the assembled Jedi Masters techniques they didn't know, he's certainly up there...and I believe it said Yoda was the best the Order produced in Power of the Jedi, I'm at college so I don't have the materials on me

And we've never seen those amulets truly put to the test...against Jedi masters with experience with Sith items-Yoda participated in the fight against the Bpfasshi, some members of Bane's order that surfaced, Kibh Jeen, Karkko apparently, and possibly Bane or Zannah....Notice Kun never uses those amulets on a Jedi master.

We also don't know if Kun would be capable of beating Bane or numerous other Sith of Bane's order considering how little we know about them.

Yes, but it is the opinion of the guys who wrote the stories...official? No, but it should carry weight.

#1. Show me the opinion, it is NOT in your email.
#2. We know that aside from the ancient sith and Palpatine that he was perhaps the most powerful sith ever.
#3. Stop putting in random characters to diminish Exar Kun.
#4. Exar Kun>>>>>>Yoda.. This is fact ans has been proven.
#5. I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to geico.

Putting you back on ignore, troll

ok so lightsnake has proven his childishness, stupidity, and lack of comprehension for certain vocabulary. This case is closed, go cry elsewhere lightsnake.

This is so "funny" I don't know if I should laugh at it.

a)
In a sheer force contest Yoda would limit himself to "defensive" force use as we have already seen when he duelled his "worst enemy". I don't see him using any "aggressive" force techniques - some force TK at max. Nothing that would be really dangerous for Kun. Even if he does - we've already seen Kun simply resisting a wall of light attack by Odan Urr.

b)
Kun's amulets will most likely work. The question is if he would use them fighting another Jedi Master (which is debateable) and if Yoda would be able to block the blasts.
Well...I, personally, don't think that Kun would use them for the single reason that he prefers duelling "worthy" opponents with his lightsaber. But let's assume he does. I don't know if Yoda can simply deflect those blasts (but I'll doubt it since a casual blasts of energy from a similar amulet was enough to floor Nomi Sunrider who was possibly the most gifted force user of her time). On the other hand I doubt that one of that blasts would kill Yoda and he's fast enough to dodge the beams if needed. So we can pretty much ignore the amulets.

c)
In a lightsaber confrontation it's getting tricky. Kun is perhabs the best lightsaber duellist the Sith ever had (except Tulak Hord), equipped with a unique weapon and a unique style. On the other hand you have Yoda who is capable of dodging lightsaber attacks from three different opponents (one of them a Vaapad master) at once as seen in "ShadowHunter".

Conclusion:
Really. I don't see anybody "pwning" the other in this fight. If somebody wins I'd say Kun because he might surprise Yoda with some amulet blast or finally outduel him because (I guess) Yoda would get tired faster because of his age and the fact that he uses a fighting style which requires tons of energy. On the other hand Yoda might also surprise Kun with his agility (most people tend to underestimate Yoda) and force strength. I don't know. But saying "Kun pwns Yoda" is pretty much stupid. Sorry...

It's doubtful Yoda will grow tired...Yoda can keep himself going for quite some time.

As for an amulet, there's still no proof it'd work, given that Yoda is the strongest jedi master ever, and Sith amulets became very widespread with the NEw Sith Empire, it's probable Jedi had to increase their defensive abilities. Yoda would limit himself to defensive, no doubt, but if he truly had to, I doubt something would stop him from using Malacia or Morichro...and Yoda is also easily one of the best Jedi swordsman, if not the best besides Luke.

And before anyone knocks Yoda's TK, the guy is able to lift Mace Windu, while deflecting a blaster beam while hurling a Yinchorri into a wall with enough force to kill him. As for Yoda's Ataru, unlike most of Kun's other opponents that we've seen, he's probably more agile and overwhelming...Yoda's more 'in your face' and when it comes to Ataru, he's able to keep himself going until the fight actually ends...taking out an army of droids must take some time for example

More bullshit text lightsnake, again your argument consists of "this guy is the strongest ever so your logic doesn't work". Again, welcome to the world of versus forums. And yet another typical example of retarded hyperbole. What is Yoda's ability to take out droids going to do against a powerful DLOTS? Nothing. I tend to agree with Borbarad, it might not be a pwnage but there's almost no chance of Yoda winning. Sorry lightsnake.

Would you just shut up?

Awww personal attacks? Have you been on this forum all day lightsnake? Don't you just hate the fact that you get angry everytime your argument is defeated and your favorite characters are diminished? At least I don't attack your stupidity up front on here like you do. Very childish lightsnake, but I don't expect much from you judging by these last few days.. I think Sama pretty much summed it up and even though Nai(I guess that's Borbarad) had a very interesting post, I tend to agree with the fact that it may not be a donkey stomping but Yoda has virtually no chance.. Now please quit crying.

No, I'm attacking you. I'm telling you to shut up, there's a difference.

It's a matter of time before you get banned, and believe me, I'm looking forward to it

Why would I get banned? If anybody is going to get banned it's you, judging by your ridiculous posts and humorous insults. I'm glad "youre going to enjoy it". I don't want to rain on your star wars forum(life) parade.. If you have nothing logical to add to an argument, don't, for the sake of other members who don't want to see your arbitrary text.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's doubtful Yoda will grow tired...Yoda can keep himself going for quite some time.

Most likely not as long as an equally strong but younger force user.



Meh. No Lightsnake...there is no proof that said amulet won't work. We're talking about an item created by the third most powerful force user in the golden age of the Ancient Sith Empire and not about some toy created by some member of the NSE.



This is nothing compared to lifting up the entire freaking temple on Ilum up.



An army of droids is nothing compared to Kun. I mean...we're talking about Yoda here. That guy can waste an army of droids within minutes with his force abilities. No need for "duelling" them or waste time with such an action.
And yes...he's more aggressive than most people (except Ulic) Kun had to fight but I don't see him breaking through Kun's defence easily - if he's able to do it at all...

How is there even an argument for Kun not being able to use it again? Lightsnake you keep saying Kun won't be able to use it again so I will say AGAIN, that Sidious can't use his force storm and Luke can't use his lightning. Remember that this is YOUR Logic. Logic>Diminishing TOTJ characters.

The thing is, Yoda can keep going as long as he needs to. It's not like this fight'll go on forever and Yoda'll be a harder opponent for Kun to fight

Toy? Those Sith in the NSE were using ANCIENT amulets.

Well, yes, I was trying to avoid the Ilum thing because of the 'Clone Wars' bit...Still though, it was nice to see Yoda chastise Mace for trying to protect him.

Destroying an army of droids with your saber alone is going to take some time and energy...and he may not be able to break Kun's defenses easily, but he is capable of it. He's more aggressive and more agile.

And Sexy, shut up, Nai made mention of the amulet thing already.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The thing is, Yoda can keep going as long as he needs to. It's not like this fight'll go on forever and Yoda'll be a harder opponent for Kun to fight

Toy? Those Sith in the NSE were using ANCIENT amulets.

Well, yes, I was trying to avoid the Ilum thing because of the 'Clone Wars' bit...Still though, it was nice to see Yoda chastise Mace for trying to protect him.

Destroying an army of droids with your saber alone is going to take some time and energy...and he may not be able to break Kun's defenses easily, but he is capable of it. He's more aggressive and more agile.

And Sexy, shut up, Nai made mention of the amulet thing already.

Yoda can keep going as long as he wants to? Right lightsnake sure. Yoda is more agressive and more agile than Kun? Maybe more Agile but aggressive? Perhaps you forget the concept of light side vs. Dark side.. And don't tell me to shut up, I saw perfectly well Nai disprove your stupidity about using the amulet only once.. But it's convenient that you ignore that.

I advise you to actually watch Yoda fight.

And no, Nai said and I quote: The question is if he would use them fighting another Jedi Master (which is debateable) and if Yoda would be able to block the blasts.
Well...I, personally, don't think that Kun would use them for the single reason that he prefers duelling "worthy" opponents with his lightsaber

Right and there's no proof that states Yoda or anybody can block the blasts considering they ARENT force attacks, it's a single beam of energy. The only thing Yoda would be able to do is dodge it, but for how long is not known.. And trust me, if Kun was about to die, he would use the amulet. But so far there's zero proof that Yoda can block.

Okay, so does that mean Yoda can't block blaster beams?

And Kun would have to step back and ready the blast and fire...leaving himself WIDE open to a flowing water cut

Lets see.. Blaster beam=beam from the amulet? Nice logic lightsnake, no really..
And very nice interpretation of what WON'T happen.

Considering Yoda's incredible danger sense...

And you said 'it's an energy' beam...I countered that showing that Jedi are capable of blocking energy beams.

And once more, Exar'd have to withdraw and step back. and that's the textbook time to perform the flowing Water Cut

You didn't counter it because blaster beams=/amulet beams, considering the beam increased exponentially in power, was wider than a regular beam, and destroyed anything in its path.. Oh yea, Yoda and his danger sense, great argument lightsnake..

So...Yoda can deflect force attacks and other energy beams, but not another energy blast...right

Ever think there's a REASON Kun never used energy blasts on Jedi masters?

Ever think why Sidious used his force storm once and Luke used his lightning once? Oh yea, it makes no difference, they didn't need to. Contradicting your nonsense from a few days ago.. Apparently your characters can use their powers more than once but everyone else's can't. And to state that Yoda can block an amulet blast is pure speculation, at best.. Again, sorry lightsnake.

I think I'll let Nai's quote stand

Of course, because it's convenient for you.. And logic> you.. Nai said that Yoda COULD possibly block it, which means very little especially the way you interpret it. Once again come back when you can form a cogent argument.

He also said Kun probably wouldn't use it. Kun never used his amulet on a Jedi Master...and he had three opportunities to do so

Luke never used his lightning on Jedi masters either.. Sidious never used his attack more than once.. Means absolutely nothing considering the fact that he COULD use it, and he mastered Sadow's techniques. Sorry, absence of proof doesn't favor your case especially since he's used it..

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Okay, so does that mean Yoda can't block blaster beams?

And Kun would have to step back and ready the blast and fire...leaving himself WIDE open to a flowing water cut

What? We've seen Sidious use attacks on Yoda, we've even seen him use Force lightning on Yoda at point blank range. Also, it would leave the question of how Dooku can somehow manage to tear down the crane using the Force while he had Yoda in a saberlock.



And...



Response to both:

Maybe because he's never actually had any reason to use them? Let's see: he fought Ulic (possibly Ulic's amulet provided a defense for the attack), and add to the fact it was interrupted anyways. He fought Vodo, who he was apparently trying to convert (what good would some debris be to Kun?), and to me - he was toying with him anyways because Vodo was clearly out of his league. Then you have Odan. Good ol' Odan Urr who died with a flick of the wrist.

Now which opponents caused Kun that much of a threat that he would literally need to cremate them using the blasts? Oh and Ood, who Kun already said "we have no time" yada-yada, and would risk destroying the objects he was after anyways.

You could say his "finale" against all the Jedi in the galaxy. But really, what good would blasts - even of that magnitude - do against thousands upon thousands of Force using Jedi?

Hi common sense, meet Lightsnake.

Considering Ulic was MATCHING him...And arrogant as Kun is, if you've got an attack with a hundred percent attack rate...and last time I check, Dooku uses a fencing style, along with the fact he was losing to Yoda and needed to get away...and last time I checked, Yoda blocked that lightning

And Kun is hardly alone on that planet...he had the Massasi RACE-millions, plus all his alchemical creations...Terentateks included.

Oh, and yes....RISK destroying the objects, or leave them forever, sounds like such a hard choice...

Now you're going to put arrogance into this argument? You've just made 3 useless excuses to attempt to diminish Kun.. Kudos Lightsnake.

Do you EVER shut up?

Do you ever win an argument and ever proof that you're not a stupid antisocial child?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Considering Ulic was MATCHING him...

The amulets could provide a possible defense for each other, and also like I said the fight was interrupted after a page.



His arrogance might be a factor for your side. Considering he's confident enough in his own skill to face enemies head on.

Thinking about it I'd probably agree with Nai and yourself on the matter of Kun using it or possibly not. Like, he has the possibility of using it, but it doesn't necessarily mean he will. Though I'd figure if Yoda would be a huge threat to him (and he would be) then he just might actually use it.



What does a fencing style have to do with engaging in a saberlock?? And along with the fact that he at least held it and was still able to muster up the power to drop the crane and get away tells me it's very possible for Kun - if he uses his amulet - to get a viable shot in at Yoda without being terminated.



When they first encountered in Palpatine's office, I remember Yoda being on the floor. Granted, they weren't dueling, but that's not what I was talking about. When Yoda pops up on the Senate pod, Sidious' lightning disarms Yoda's lightsaber. Yoda then moves to blocking it with his hands I guess. And Sadow's amulets produce blasts that are far more destructive than Sidious' lightning.



Millions? Millions? I guess that's why the narration only says "thousands":

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8314/massassidrainlr4.th.jpg

Yes, I'm sure the primitive Massassi would fair well against every of Jedi in the galaxy.



Lightsnake, the risk of losing the lightsabers was a simple additon to the main point that Exar Kun even acknowledges that he doesn't necessarily need them. Plus when there's about to be a planetary supernova on the way - who gives a damn about some artifacts?

The amulets didn't even start glowing until the saber duel and how would Kun even know?

Dooku was confident, too...remember how that turned out?

As I recall, Dooku and Yoda were not struggling at that point in time and Dooku was about to break away anyways. When Kun saber locks, he tends to use both hands and a blast like that point blank? He'd kill himself.

Okay, thousands...plus the Brotherhood, the two-headed avians, battle hydras, terentateks..plus Kun himself

I recall Yoda getting up and putting Sidious back on the floor himself. And it's debatable if Yoda was truly hurt or playing possum.


Okay, we missing Kun was an arrogant SOB? He just let Ood get away with beating him. To blast Ood would've taken seconds.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The amulets didn't even start glowing until the saber duel and how would Kun even know?

Dooku was confident, too...remember how that turned out?

As I recall, Dooku and Yoda were not struggling at that point in time and Dooku was about to break away anyways. When Kun saber locks, he tends to use both hands and a blast like that point blank? He'd kill himself.

Okay, thousands...plus the Brotherhood, the two-headed avians, battle hydras, terentateks..plus Kun himself

I recall Yoda getting up and putting Sidious back on the floor himself. And it's debatable if Yoda was truly hurt or playing possum.


Okay, we missing Kun was an arrogant SOB? He just let Ood get away with beating him. To blast Ood would've taken seconds.

The amulets didn't start glowing blah blah blah excuses, what does it matter exactly? Dooku being confident has nothing to do with this case unless of course everybody that you think is confident that isn't name Luke or Sidou,s will lose. About Kun killing himself, yet another ridiculous interpretation in your favor. And it's not debateable whether Yoda was playing hurt or not, it's fact as it is shown, just because you don't want to believe it because it proves nothing for your case, doesn't mean its not true... And again, if youre going to use your stupid Kun can use his amulet once logic, I can do the same thing for Luke and Sidious.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The amulets didn't even start glowing until the saber duel and how would Kun even know?

Nadd perhaps? Reading through Sadow's scrolls? And what does the amulets glowing have to do with anything?? They only started glowing because of Ragnos' forthcoming.



Yes, I remember seeing Christopher Lee's ugly mug rolling on the ground. Do you remember who killed the guy who claimed to be "more powerful than any Jedi"? I think his name is Anakin Skywalker, the arrogant and supremely confident little bastard that we know and love.



So, instead of actually capturing/killing/disarming Dooku - he lets him walk away. They were in the middle of a battle, and Dooku was locked with Yoda using only one hand yet Yoda didn't capitalize. Surprising...



True, true; although they were locked for a solid eleven seconds. Four seconds of which Dooku was left only using one hand to hold Yoda off.



Why?

First though, just a quick scenario: Kun could just produce the blast he used on Aleema (which only rendered her unconscious - probably would have less of an affect on Yoda, but whatever), and then blow Yoda back to Sesame Street using the same blasts he used on the Wyrm.

Anyways, let's look at DLOTS:

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/9420/kuntempleamuletcutpa8.th.jpg

That's pretty point blank to me. He doesn't even look more than five, maybe six feet away. He's even holding on to the Wyrm at one point with a blast ready in his hand.



Versus: thousands upon thousands of Jedi. The combined might of all the Jedi in the galaxy. Kun knew he was beaten, and Kun - I'd say - knows what would've happened. Or rather what did happen. The Jedi used that little "wall of light" which basically was said to have "triggered a terrible destruction in its wake" that nothing can survive.



Very debatable. Nonetheless, replace Force push with a finely place amulet blast that tears through rock - and you might have a different situation.



Lol, no. I already acknowledged that.



So? Are you really going to tell me that Kun is so vengeful that he's going to waste even a few seconds when there's a supernova on the way? A point to easily counter that would be his actions at the Senate, letting Massassi deal with Sylvar - the one who gave him that pretty little scar.

Anyways, I'll just give you an explanation in Kun's own words: "We have little time to take it all for ourselves." - Exar Kun before he even meets with Ood.

Now, for the real counter: "He'll be trapped here when the conflagration hits. It would have been better for Ood if he'd just surrendered those lightsabers." - Exar Kun implying that it's a more destructive death, and that he could care less.

Indeed, good points.

Exar wins.

You really think Nadd'd mention something like that to Kun? All Kun knew was Ulic had another amulet...if he used even the basics of Sith magic, he'd have finished Ulic.

Dooku's style focuses on generally using one hand, that's why he uses Makashi...Yoda decided saving his fellows was more important than finishing Dooku...you might say the same about Mace not killing Dooku when he had the chance...both Mace and Yoda regretted their choices...

The difference is that blast is going to go through the worm's throat...he won't be airborne when blasting Yoda, that blast'll detonate into the ground how far away from him?

And those Jedi who're OUTNUMBERED with all of Kun's sith knowledge, his mutant Massassi, NORMAL Massassi, Kun himself plus Terentateks, one of which is a match for squads of Jedi...and surprisingly, there were survivors on Yavin, Kun's alchemical creatures more're less

And once again: There's no proof-zero-that Kun's amulets will be able to kill Yoda and that he cannot counter or deflect them...if the eJedi were wiping out the Sith, there was combat involved...if it were so easy that the Sith could mount up waves of Kissai blasting amulets...I really doubt that thing is 100 percent infallible.

Nai himself even said that the blast probably won't kill Yoda on impact even if it did hit...we can proceed to repeat the Sidious fight.

And Kun had plenty of time to leave Ossues, it'd take SECONDS to blast Ood. He might evemn have still gotten the lightsabers, even. And consideing Kun had turned Crado to the dark side AND killed Sylvar's master in front of her, I think his revenge was taken. the times we see Exar fight, he always brings it to a saber duel, where he may very well be defeated. Yoda was the best Jedi of the Golden Age, there's no straight guarantee Exar will defeat Yoda easily, if at all. Nai put it best even if I disagree with his conclusion

Ahh... finally yoda is defeated. I have waited a long time for this. Exar Kun takes this.

Dont'cha just love when people come in and continue saying stupid things? It really is amusing.
I'd love to see how Kun actually wins when Yoda is almost definitely stornger in the force and a better swordsman. Strongest the Jedi roder produced? Check. best swordsman of the golden age? Check.
Please, Balanced Blade...leave the intelligence to Sama and Nai

Kun, strongest of his era, Check... Vodo said himself. God u are too arrogant to see anything. Yoda is not invincible. Damn get over it. And instead of worrying about me, try and disprove them. And if you get so mad, ignore me.

Yoda is the strongest of the stronger era, your point?

And Vodo said a thing on the subject? Hm...no, he didn't. We have KJA's word on the subject and that's really it.

Uh what. Dude sry, hate to tell u but....
Niman is not a stronger style(yoda era). That was the prominent style. The Jedi Order is stronger memberwise and maybe other stuff, but fightingwise, just stop. If that was the case then luke would lose to yoda whenever because the new academy wasnt as strong an era (memberwise) and we all know how you feel about that....

Sry bout vodo thingy i could have sworn, probly just read it somewhere...

Your point being what? Yoda didn't use Niman, so the point is moot. It was the Jedi Golden Age with the strongest Jedi and the best duelists, of Anakin and Yoda, Mace and Dooku...oh, and Luke's well given evidence that he's exceeded Yoda. No, actually, the NJO will probably become quite a bit more powerful.

Considering Lucas called the PT the Jedi Golden Age, and Yoda's been declared the strongest the order produced, not to mention ample evidence of his triumps over the darkside being described as 'legion' AND the detail he's been called the strongest foe the darkness had ever known...

Wait, you brought that jedi order bs up.

And when do 4 people make up an order.

Yes, the NJO will become more powerful, but not at the time that i was talking about.

There's also Tholme, Quinlan, Sora Bulq, The Dark Woman, Hett, Agen, Saesee, Kit, Aayla, Qui-Gon, Ki-Adi, Plo Koon...a lot of the Jedi were very powerful and not all of them used Niman whatsoever. The elites certainly did not.

Well Lucas did say that it was the strongest. I do recall that. However, he was not speaking in terms of lightsaber combat, evidence being battle of geonosis. The main style niman was being used and the jedi who used it were killed, but no more jedi orders, this is versus.

If yoda is the greatest thing darkness has, sorry for light.... Exar Kun has too much knowledge and devices to help him (not saying he will use them in the fight but mainly knowledge) that yoda just did not have.

Sry didnt see your last part. I am going nite got to get up at 5 to gt work. Argue w someone else...

Just read last post.. you were speaking of the entire jedi order, not individuals. I was speaking of the order in general. The ones you name (did not read all) survived geonosis too. But enough of jedi order....

One of the movie commentaries. And it was just 'Golden Age'...I believe the EU's piked up on.

And Yoda is the Jedi who's spent his entire existence fighting darkness, from Dark Jedi to pirates to Sith...Yoda's been said to have learned or developed defenses to any and all dark side techniques. Exar certainly didn't learn all the Ancient Sith Empire did...Palpatine certainly had more knowledge than him.

Thing is, Yoda's still the best duelist in a better era in skill, so there's a margin of skill there

Better era in skill? Better duelist? Wake up from your dream world lightsnake. Kun>Yoda.. This has already been argued, its over.

Lucas stated the PT era to be the Jedi Golden Age. The EU went with that. Yoda= best of the best era.

Do the math, brat

Guess what, you can't tell us what the Golden Age of the Jedi means. And Yoda being the best of that Golden age says absolutely nothing when he faces a DLOTS at a more martial time with more force abilities, fighting, etc. Use common sense, brat.

Since the writers have gone with the tiny detail that 'Golden Age' means the strongest time and at the peak of abilities, well...

Oh, let me just make a counterargument: The writers have also said the later Sith Empires surpassed the Ancient Sith Empires of old.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Since the writers have gone with the tiny detail that 'Golden Age' means the strongest time and at the peak of abilities, well...

Oh, let me just make a counterargument: The writers have also said the later Sith Empires surpassed the Ancient Sith Empires of old.


That's not a counter argument sweetheart. Because you see, the Golden Age of the sith signified the height of it's sith alchemy and dark side power. The new sith empire, which I don't even know what that really is, surpassed the ancient sith in terms of greatness, just like Palpatine because the greatest sith lord. The Ancient Sith did not expand so again, their Golden Age was the Apex of power. Everything everybody ever got was from the Ancient Sith. Now please explain the Golden Age of the Jedi because the way I remember it, it marked the high point of peace..

You lose, troll. Argue with LFL, not me

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You lose, troll. Argue with LFL, not me

How do I translate that? Oh wait here goes..

I'm a moron who can't win an argument and gets angry everytime I lose and since this clearly contradicts my reality, I'm going to use unintelligent personal attacks because he's right and I'm wrong... Way to go lightsnake, or as you say it, you whiney brat.
Pwned

Argue with LFL, not me.

I don't have to argue with you, i've destroyed or helped destroy any argument you have made in the past few days, as have others specifically in your thread. Now accept your defeat and learn how to argue. Exar Kun>Yoda=Fact whether you accept it or not.. Troll

Argue with LFL, not me.

wow, you are the epitome of maturity when it comes to losing.

*cough*Yoda*cough*

lol

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Better era in skill?


Compared to what ? Kun's time ? What did you see the Jedi doing there that is some testament for their "skill" (force wise or in terms of duelling) at all ?

Andur Sunrider had his ass handed to a bunch of bandits. Do you see that happen to somebody like Mace, Anakin or Obi-Wan ? Or even some Padawans who walked over the dead bodies of entire gangs on their own ? I don't.

Arca Jeth, one of the most powerful Jedi in Kun's time, got his ass handed to a droid because he decided to give Ulic some lecture in the middle of a battle. Do you see that happen to any PT Jedi Master ? I don't.

Without wasting more time on such examples: Anderson did put Kun on one level with Sidious. Kun's own era produced exactly zero Jedi being a macth for Kun while the PT order produced at least two people who were able to face Sith Lords in direct confrontation and survive it (Yoda, Mace) even more if you want to add people like Dooku (when he was a Jedi), Anakin, Obi-Wan...



Yoda a better duelist than Kun ? Most likely not. The point is that duelling ability only doesn't equal victory. Mace was a prodigy when it came to handling a lightsaber as we all know. Did he manage to defeat Yoda ? No. Dooku did spent his entire lifetime with practicing lightsaber styles and perfecting the "ultimate refinement of lightsaber vs lightsaber confrontation" - was he able to beat Yoda ? No.

Now if those two can't outduel Yoda and we have the description of Yoda dodging attacks by three Jedi (including one Vaapad master) without any effort - how would Kun be able to defeat him in a lightsaber fight ? Kun is a saber prodigy - I don't think that somebody even wants to discuss this fact - but to be honest I don't see how he would overcome Yoda except the one chance that he will tire him out. IF he's able to do that - and that's a big "if" actually.



It has been argued ? With a conclusion ? Where ? The last time I've seen something that could be called "debate" about this topic it was in a Revan vs Exar or Revan vs Yoda thread with the result that we all agreed to disagree.

Ok fair enough point Nai but let me ask you this. Does the fact that Exar Kun was beyond everybody in his time, diminish his era or shows a testament of Kun's skill? I could just as well say that during the PT time is when there was 1-2 sith lords at the same time, so it's not exactly a normal comparison to the old republic times. And at the same time I can say that diminishes the power of Sidious or really puts Yoda on another level. I believe I saw a few threads where it was Vodo vs. Yoda, and there was more of a case for Vodo. That only matters to a certain extent here but the simple fact is, Kun had no equal in force abilities and saber combat, and he clearly displayed both abilites to perfection, or at least more than Sidious and his force lightning and Yoda's abilities. I never said this would be a curbstomp but there's very little chance Yoda could defeat a lightsaber prodigy during a more warlike period. Not to mention Yoda isn't magically going to know how to combat Exar Kun's unknown style. Which also doesn't matter TOO much but just my point. And if Kun has trouble with Yoda in saber combat, he always has his ancient sith spells and amulet to fall back on, unless of course youre going to tell me Yoda can dodge those things like nothing, especially without getting tired.

Oh Nai, as for the thread I just found it..
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=342279&highlight=exar+kun+vs.+yoda

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Ok fair enough point Nai but let me ask you this. Does the fact that Exar Kun was beyond everybody in his time, diminish his era or shows a testament of Kun's skill?


How does this even matter if Kun's creator says he's on Sidious level ?



Let's see: Before Kun you have 1,000 years without any Dark Lord and then you have two Sith Lords (Exar and Ulic). Where is the difference between Kun's time and the PT era exactly ?



Excuse me. The PT era was far more "warlike" like Kun's time. Wanna compare a 3 year full scale war to two fights on Onderon and some battles in the Sith War which lasted...hmm...6 months ?

And it doesn't matter what person X compared to person Y when the creator of person X says that person X is equal to person Y. If Yoda can take down Sidious he's a nice chance of taking down Kun too.



Dude. Yoda can dodge the attacks of three Jedi at once. In ROTS you see him moving fast enough to deflect around a dozen (or even more) blaster beams per second. How is Kun going to hit Yoda exactly ?



Didn't you find an older thread ? A few days more in age and we would see Moses participating in the debate.

Well Nai few things here:

Please show me where the creator puts Sidious on Kun's level, and not that bullshit ambiguous email from lightsnake.
Secondly, if that WAS the case I am almost 100% sure that he was referring to DE Sidious, because there is absolutely no way ROTS Sidious could be on Kun's level, not by a longshot. I guarantee you if the creator said this then he WAS talking about the STRONGEST form of Sidious. Now Yoda stalemated or almost beat ROTS Sidious, which means absolutely nothing considering DE SIdious would curbstomp him, and if you are inclined to believe that Exar Kun=strongest version of Sidious, then you are inclined to believe that Exar Kun>Yoda.

I wanna say something else:

There were also NUMEROUS successive conflicts in the Clone Wars era and not spread out over centuries

Kun's era:
Gank Massacre-800 years before
Great Droid Rebellion-coupla centuries before? Maybe less, I forget
The Vultar Cataclysm: before the Droid Rebellion, at least

PT times:
Volfe Karkko's rebellion
Nikko Tyris's rebellion with the JEnsaari: Some time before the prequels, later joined Dooku
Kibh Jeen's rebellion: One of the few times the Council ever had to order an outright 'Shoot to kill' order...
The Yinchorri Uprising
The Stark Hyperspace War
Numerous little incidents

And there's no conflict in Kun's era that came close to a galaxy spanning conflict raging for three years.

And considering Dan wallace put ROTS Sidious as the strongest Sith ever...Nai, we'd been over this before I know, but what's the point of being the strongest Jedi if you're incredibly inferior to numerous Sith when the light and Dark are equal? when one of the reasons Yoda lost was because of the 'change of the Sith' as detailed by the ROTS novel. There's not telling what generation of Sidious Kevin was referring to...

Now Yoda lost? Lightsnake your ambiguous quotes make absolutely no sense.. How the hell is ROTS Sidious the strongest sith lord ever when his newer self was even stronger? This is why I take your quotes as absolutely nothing in an argument, because they don't even make sense..

Yoda fell a hundred feet and ran away...no matter your reason, that's still a loss. And up until that point was what I believe Dan was trying to say...did I really need to spell that out?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Ok fair enough point Nai but let me ask you this. Does the fact that Exar Kun was beyond everybody in his time, diminish his era or shows a testament of Kun's skill? I could just as well say that during the PT time is when there was 1-2 sith lords at the same time, so it's not exactly a normal comparison to the old republic times. And at the same time I can say that diminishes the power of Sidious or really puts Yoda on another level. I believe I saw a few threads where it was Vodo vs. Yoda, and there was more of a case for Vodo. That only matters to a certain extent here but the simple fact is, Kun had no equal in force abilities and saber combat, and he clearly displayed both abilites to perfection, or at least more than Sidious and his force lightning and Yoda's abilities. I never said this would be a curbstomp but there's very little chance Yoda could defeat a lightsaber prodigy during a more warlike period. Not to mention Yoda isn't magically going to know how to combat Exar Kun's unknown style. Which also doesn't matter TOO much but just my point. And if Kun has trouble with Yoda in saber combat, he always has his ancient sith spells and amulet to fall back on, unless of course youre going to tell me Yoda can dodge those things like nothing, especially without getting tired.

Oh Nai, as for the thread I just found it..
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=342279&highlight=exar+kun+vs.+yoda

Luke thought that soup was nasty because it was Exar I recall exar being.hang

Ahhhhhh! blowup

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda fell a hundred feet and ran away...no matter your reason, that's still a loss. And up until that point was what I believe Dan was trying to say...did I really need to spell that out?


Considering the point that Lucas HIMSELF said the fight was a stalemate on the ROTS DVD, then the fight was a stalemate. And again, who exactly is Anderson to make ambiguous quotes like that? If we were to go by your logic(aka the quotes), then ROTS Sidious>DE Sidious. And I HIGHLY doubt he meant up to that point, whether he included the EU in it or not. ROTS Sidious=not believable in the least bit. DE Sidious at least has leeway.

Oh, Nai, for the record, care to see the TOTJ parody?

Scene examples:

Naga Sadow: Mwaahaha, now to convince the Sith that those bumbling and lovable explorers are really asssassins from the Republic...I will trick the Sith into war
Sith: Umm, Naga? We're EVIL? We're the SITH! We don't need inducements!
Naga: No! The tragic death of a talking head will be avenged!
Ludo: Damn you, Naga Sadow! I will stop you!
Naga: It's amusing you're such a stupid peon but are absolutely right in everything you do


Exar: Hey, I'll take that!
Odan: Oh, what a coincidence...I was just teaching Nomi how to deal with this!
Exar: Master, do you know who I am? I'm....Batman!
Odan: What?
Exar: Oh, nevermind, just always wanted to say that *Kills Odan Ur*
Students: Exar, we're ready, teach us stuff!
Exar: Heh heh


Jedi 1: The KRath are evil...we must stop them.
Jedi 2: What about them letting them our own path?
Jedi 1: they control important mining facilities?
Jedi 2: WAR!!!!!

Vodo: We cannot act until it's too late....well, now's good....Exar Kun, it is too late to stop you, so I'm gonna try now!

some of that was actually mildly humorous..

lmao that was like the funniest shit I've ever read.
Man, I'm on the floor laughing, I can't stop.

I don't think it was that funny Nebaris but to each his own.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Please show me where the creator puts Sidious on Kun's level, and not that bullshit ambiguous email from lightsnake.


Why is this email "ambigious". It was clearly coming from Anderson forwarded by his official fanclub (AnderZone). I've checked it.



Didn't I already say the same ?



Did you miss the fact that Luke who was still almost untrained in times of DE managed to defeat Sidious in a lightsaber fight ? If DE Sidious can't "curpstomb" DE Luke - how would he "curpstomb" Yoda ? There is even this funny scene were Sidious floors Luke with force lightning after Luke did cut his hand off. In a similar situation Yoda did manage to block Sidious lightning with his bare hand and Mace did manage to bring up his lightsaber for defence.

@Lightsnake:


Considering that Sidious took quite huge amounts of knowledge from the Jedi temple, even more from the Ancient Sith later and the fact that he himself says he was stronger than ever, I guess Wallace was wrong with this statement.



I don't know why you have so many problems to understand the concept of the force. The force itself is an energy field - basically unlimited power. The Dark Side and the Light Side are just names for philosophies concerning the "use" of this energy.
Now of course - the both sides are "equal" because of the fact that they both use the same energy source. But the power of a force user is only determined by his personal connection to the force, his midi-chlorian count and his knowledge.
The problem is that the Jedi are limiting their personal power by their own rules while the Sith sometimes even try to archieve power that they can't control theirselves.

Now logically: If you take two persons with the same knowledge and the same force connection and put them against each other while one of them limits his own abilities to a certain extend (only defence) than it's more likely that the person who doesn't limit his power would win. Correct ? You can even take some "less powerful" person and put it against somebody who limits himself and the less powerful person might win.



Isn't that somehow stupid again, Lightsnake ? The "change in philosophy" is just mentioned in the ROTS novel and there is nothing to suggest that something like that happened. We've seen people like Sadow and Kun "acting behind the scenes" pretty often. And that's not even touching the question what Sidious Mr. Anderson was thinking about. Obviously a change in philosophy would have happened before Sidious since his ROTS and DE incarnations would be both past that change.

And sorry...DE Sidious was stronger than any prior version of him. Hence it doesn't make sense to compare any other version to Kun to find out who's the strongest.

Who said anything about Sidious not becoming stronger? I didn't feel a need to ask Dan to clarify he meant up to that point...even the strongest can get stronger. There's, like you said, the matter of raw power.

Limiting or not, we have quite a few records of Sith losing to Jedi, and Yoda's hardly much of a 'limiter'...he doesn't really balk at putting a saber through someone in many cases...hell, he killed a Yinchorri prisoner who could have in no way harmed him. It's basically guys 'limiting themselves' to guys whose power they can't control...problem is, what the Jedi do learn is how to counter that power.

The difference between Kun, Sadow and Sidious's behind the scenes actions: Sidious was actually dealing with moderately intelligent people and actually managed to succeed...Yoda was referring to a change in philosophy amongst the Sith and realized that they couldn't be defeated through fighting them there...'Couldn't be burned away with a lightsaber or chased away with the Force while the Jedi had spent a millenia preparing to fight the last war.'
I don't have direct access to the book, so you'll have to pardon my paraphraisng if I'm wrong.

And even though DE Sidious is his strongest incarnation, it doesn't mean other incarnations would be 'curbstomped' by Kun

Oh, Nai, new email from Tom, I'll scan it later:

There's no doubt Yoda is at the top...but the problem (as I see it) is that he was depicted as relying too much on the lightsaber in the new films... I think the film-makers lost sight of his more advanced powers...


Here was my email to Tom:

One more question, if it's alright, Mr. Veitch: How would you rate a Jedi like Yoda next to people like Exar or the Ancients? that's another thing I've been curious about, given Yoda's demigod status amongst the Jedi

Lightsnake, can this time you scan the entire email, so you don't have to tell us that you asked a bunch of other questions and got other answers that incidentally weren't in the email? THanks..

And again as I have said and Nai has said, IF there was a comparison, Kun would be compared to DE Sidious not ROTS Sidious who couldn't shine Kun's shoes. And if Kun>Sidious or Kun=Sidious then Kun>Yoda obviously, despite your quote which has already been dissected.
And Nai, you can use the fact that DE Luke cut Palpatine's hand off to improve your argument about Yoda's power, but you and I have both seen the things Palpatine does in DE. I don't know whether DE Luke is stronger than Yoda, but he did learn a lot from Palpatine and even the fact that he could stop an AT-AT says a lot about his untrained abilities, so I don't know if that is a good argument to use. But either way Exar Kun>Yoda.. Maybe by a lot, maybe by a little.

O, right, the strongest Jedi master who's mastered practically ever aspect of the light...

And what questions are these? I'm bringing this up for the argument's benefit. And no, sorry....Anderson said if they fought we might found out...that's not an implication on equality. And there's still nothing to declare what version of Sidious KJA was talking about because he might have disregarded DE completely...Kevin didn't exactly say they were equals or close to it...just that if they'd fought, we'd find out who the strongest was...in others words: "I don't know, but one of these two by whatever margin' Could he be comparing DE Sidious to Kun? Sure. Does that mean OT or ROTS Palpatine would never be able to take Kun? Or Yoda'd never be able to take Kun?

Ah yes your argument reverts back to said quote.. Wonderful lightsnake. And again I have read your email, it does NOT state that these two are the strongest sith lords ever, but of their time. Stop making it seem like they would vie for strongest sith lords ever. And yes lightsnake, if KJA was comparing the two(first off I don't see how he has any authority over Sidious at all so his opinion is just that), then he would be comparing Kun to the STRONGEST version of Sidious, which is ONLY logical. So with that comparison alone, notwithstanding all the logical arguments that have been brought into Exar Kun>Yoda, the comparison alone would warrant that conclusion..

Also go to the Ragnos thread where I posted about what the sourceook states, which would clearly contradict your theory of Palpatine>Ragnos, or rather Palpatine>All

Or he could have just not been thinking about DE whatsoever, which;d fit with ROTS Sidious bein written as the strongest Sith 'in history' (Meaning to that point) Or he might just have been referring to Sidious in general...ROTS Sidious would probably trump over Kun by the time he destroys Nadd, so?

And what exactly from this source book?

Go read.. And Exar Kun>>>>ROTS Sidious.. Ambiguous quotes mean nothing when certain powers and abilities have clearly been displayed.. Now DE Sidious might be equal to or greater than Kun, which like I said would indeed be more logical. Perhaps you need to email the guy again and ask him what version of Sidious you are talking about. I'm still waiting for my response..

Oh, please! You're clinging to RPG stats? Which were declared N-canon in the holocron database?

Ok, then...Vader>Exar Kun.

And once again...your interpretation doesn't really mean much, now does it? Unless you ARE KJA, then you cannot tell me what he meant...and no, I'm not gonna send him a question and wait a month for a single answer, thanks. And I'm trusting Nai far more than I'm trusting you on the issue. Especially as-guess what- KJA didn't say it'd be a close fight, he said nothing on how close they are in terms of power

Uh wrong thread lightsnake.. Take that to the appropriate thread.. Thanks

And you're right, but my interpretation is indeed a logical one. And KJA himself did not state which Sidious it was, however he has no authority on Sidious. And of course you're going to trust Nai lightsnake, that's how you are. Anything that benefits Sidious or Yoda, is all of a sudden canon. And I'm glad youre trusting Nai because he also said Kun>yoda but not a curbstomp. And I tend to agree with his argument because he kinda proves me wrong on the whole curbstomping nonsense, but at least I have the balls to say it unlike you. At the very most, Yoda=Kun in saber combat. The text of Yoda knowing everything means very little in a versus fight involving a sith amulet.

Right, it'd mean nothing...
Here's a question: If Sith amulets are so uber, how wss a race using them wiped out? when we know Jedi faced them in combat? How'd Thon kill that one Ancient? How'd the Jedi win again the New Sith Empire when they used Sith amulets from ancient times? When their leader was beaten back by Hoth and said leader wore two at most, if not all times?


Nai also told you if Yoda lost it'd only be because he got tired, otherwise he didn't see him losing.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Right, it'd mean nothing...
Here's a question: If Sith amulets are so uber, how wss a race using them wiped out? when we know Jedi faced them in combat? How'd Thon kill that one Ancient? How'd the Jedi win again the New Sith Empire when they used Sith amulets from ancient times? When their leader was beaten back by Hoth and said leader wore two at most, if not all times?


Nai also told you if Yoda lost it'd only be because he got tired, otherwise he didn't see him losing.

Lightsnake, I won't insult you again, I will just break down your argument.. So here goes:

What does them possessing amulets have to do ANYTHING with them being wiped out? That is more irrelevant misdirection from you and serves no purpose in a versus thread. Same stupidity as how was Sidious(mr most uber sith lord ever), beaten by Luke/Vader. Many theories, who cares? Now about the new sith empire... If you conveniently forgot, the new sith empire wiped themselves out with the thought bomb... And show me what "ancient amulets" were used by them and what their purpose was. Because we have seen MANY ancient sith with amulets, as stated by Nai or Sama, and they were shown to do nothing. That's not a good argument lightsnake... Nor does it have anything to do with Exar Kun>Yoda.

Nai also stated in his first thread that he didn't see Kun losing to Yoda, even if Yoda is uber. So what, why are we bringing him into this, or why are you? I respect Nai for his argument but I also see that he has more of a thing for the new star wars, just like I have more of a thing for TOTJ.

Oh, right, they made them for decoration, then...Sadow's were the only ones that worked...

Okay, how about this: Yoda was the strongest of the stronger era. The best Jedi duelist of the top dueling eraand the strongest foe the darkness had ever known. He'a also much more agile than Kun and likely faster. And considering Kun has been shown to specifically not his amulets in one on one fights...I think Nai said it best: The only way Kun could win is if Yoda tires out. And Yoda can fight for a hell of a long time

Stronger era? who said it was the stronger era? You? The ancient sith>PT Era. I read Nai's thing on PT Jedi capabilities.. And again, Sama pretty much dissected your ambiguous "Strongest foe" text in the Revan thread. Please provide arguments and not just text. He MIGHT be more agile than Kun but faster? Maybe? You don't know that so you're speculating. And no, the sith didn't make the amulets for decorating. They specifically made them to pass down history to other generations, as is stated in DLOTS, so your point is moot. And I know what Nai said, and no offense to Nai because I respect his opinion, but Nai isn't canon.. And if you are going by his second post I'll just go by his first post where he said it was very unlikely Yoda could take on Kun.. Which is very logical.

You're not canon either so I'm trusting the sourcebooks and Lucas a LOT more than I trust you...the books, too.

Sorry, pal. The Ancient Sith were wiped out by Jedi...who were weaker than the PT era. Strongest Jedi of any generation in the PT? Check. Specifically stated to be the Golden Age by George? Check. EU writers picking that up and clarifying? Check.

Your argument collapses. The Ancient's Sith's major advance force was beaten by four Jedi, pal.

What I'm trying to say is:
Canon> you and right now it's made you its *****

Good, trust the sourcebooks and the ambiguous text that has been destroyed and dissected. Funny how when you can't continue an argument, you revert back to the text and say "the end". Unfortunately the text has no bearing on versus matches, and considering it contradicts a lot of things, it doesn't matter.. Spiffy debating Lightsnake.
Ancient sith being wiped out means they are below PT Jedi? Wow lightsnake, your argument has just been destroyed by yourself, with your ridiculous assumptions and your whiney attitude when you can't continue or don't get your way. Now since you always like to bring Nai into this, read his PT Capabilities.. Since he states the ancient sith are at the apex of their power, and obviously the PT Jedi are far less superior to them especially in terms of abilities(read natural selection), your argument dies... Again...And only after reading Nai's article would I even start to ponder the fact that the PT Jedi individually were better than the Old Republic Jedi...And that has nothing to do with the ancient sith, so stop making excuses for why you don't think they pwn, it makes no sense and it brings out the misdirection you constantly use.

Why are you forgetting the Ancients were wiped out by Jedi and the PT era is the strongest according to Lucas...?

You just love to call out ambiguous text, pal. The problem is, that text, unlike you is canonically valid. You wanna try arguing with Lucas? Believe me, the EU authors picked up on that statement.

Come on, show me an average Ancient Sith that did anything special....FOUR JEDI stopped their invasion force and killed, what, THREE Sith Lords at least? Lord Garu, the guardian of Adas's Holocron was killed in the war, even...The Ancient Sith would be wiped out in a war with the Jedi...and they were

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Why are you forgetting the Ancients were wiped out by Jedi and the PT era is the strongest according to Lucas...?

You just love to call out ambiguous text, pal. The problem is, that text, unlike you is canonically valid. You wanna try arguing with Lucas? Believe me, the EU authors picked up on that statement.

Come on, show me an average Ancient Sith that did anything special....FOUR JEDI stopped their invasion force and killed, what, THREE Sith Lords at least? Lord Garu, the guardian of Adas's Holocron was killed in the war, even...The Ancient Sith would be wiped out in a war with the Jedi...and they were

1. Show me where Lucas said that
2. Even if he DID, he would be comparing Jedi to the ancient Jedi, not sith, so your point again is moot.

And yes because your arguments all fall back on text that isn't relevant to a versus thread at ALL. And again, how does 4 jedi defeating the ancient sith(4 known jedi, to think there were only 4 is retarded), have anything to do with their force abilities, and their abilities in combat(which is the ONLY relevant thing in this thread)? Come on lightsnake seriously... You're doing nothing but making irrelevant excuses for why you don't like the ancient sith. And if you're going to include Nai, don't tell me he's right with some things because you agree with them and then ignore the others..

DVD commentary? Escape can certainly clarify.

And nope, Four Jedi...the Comic shows OFUR JEDI arriving, and says there are four Jedi, led by Memit fighting on Coruscant...these FOUR JEDI were able to defeat the AS's invasion force on Coruscant...and Memit killed at least one Sith who may or may not've been Garu on his own.

It shows ONLY 4 jedi it doesnt say it took only 4 Jedi.. I love how you carefully just where in when to use absence of proof, where it only helps your case. And guess what lightsnake, your entire post was irrelevant because it has nothing to do with a versus fight.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Stronger era? who said it was the stronger era? You? The ancient sith>PT Era. I read Nai's thing on PT Jedi capabilities..

The PT era is the where we see Jedi in their "prime" - notice this means either:

prime ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prm)
adj.
First in excellence, quality, or value. See Usage Note at perfect.
First in degree or rank; chief. See Synonyms at chief.
First or early in time, order, or sequence; original.
Of the highest U.S. government grade of meat.
Mathematics. Of, relating to, or being a prime number.

As I've said - it's not referring to a prime number. Now, that means simply that the PT era was the highest quality we see of the Jedi's skill. It clearly doesn't refer to their ideals because their ideals are peace. The entire PT is about the Empire's rise to power - which is not through peace. Along with the fact in every movie there's a war raging on.



I dissected it? All I said was that the quote about Anakin refers to everyone excluding Yoda because of his age. ROTS is hardly Yoda's prime seeing as he dies twenty years later.

It says there are only four Jedi led by Memit...yes, those Sith as a whole are really uber

Yes lightsnake, lets conveniently forget the entire Tetan armies that did the trick, lets forget the fact that Gav Daragon betrayed Sadow, lets forget Sadow's poor tactics.. All this has what to do with force abilities and raw power? Oh wait, it doesn't, more irrelevant misdirection from you...

Sama you seem to be capable of deductive reasoning, so let me ask you something..

Yoda stalemated a not so powerful Sidious, while Kun I gues "tooled" Vodo, who was considered to be Yoda's equal or superior(this reading from previous threads). Kun also displayed far more force abilities while Sidious and Yoda displayed far less. Deductive reasoning states that Yoda wasn't able to beat a somewhat old Sidious in a saber duel(granted he probably would have if it lasted longer), what makes you think he can contend with a YOUNGER, more POWERFUL lightsaber prodigy who has the secrets of the ancient sith, and had no equal in his time?

And no lightsnake, it doesn't state 4 jedi, it shows 4 jedi fighting. So by your absence of proof, we are to believe there are 4 Jedi in the entire republic fighting in the great hyperspace war? Please..

Gav Daragon did nothing but achieve the dispelling of the illusions, besides Ooroo, there wasn't a single Jedi casualty...the Jedi were throwing back and slaughtering Sith in great numbers....oh, and the Tetan army wasn't even ON Coruscant. And Sorry! It says several Jedi are fighting, led by Memit...there were jsut four Jedi there unless you find me a source saying different

Oh, and Vodo's nowhere near Yoda's power....and Yoda displayed far mroe intunement and power with the force than Exar. Able to enter minds? destroy an army of droids with a sweep of his hand? Lift a temple? Yoda also had access to the secrets of ancient Sith and Jedi with the guarded and secret Holocrons, and age means anything to power now? Please.

Yoda= strongest Jedi master ever in the Golden Age. Confirmed, fact and canon. Knows far more of the Force than Kun does. Kun had Sadow's secrets which were hardly one of a kind, too. Yoda had access to study the Ancient Sith through Adas's holocron, even and the Great Holocron...and last I checked, Yoda disarmed Sidious.

Yoda= stronger of the stronger era, fast, more agile, harder to block

Lightsnake, listing Yoda's feats again, is irrelevant considering none of them have to do with his ability in a 1 on 1 fight. And no, you conveniently forget that the war didn't take place in one area, but in MANY different areas, hence where Odan Urr was, the battle of Kirrek, etc.. So again, to think there was only 4 jedi fighting is ridiculous(not to you because you think it helps your argument). Now, for your other ridiculous statements..

Yoda knows more than Kun? Hardly.. Nothing but your own biased opinion, that's ALL.. Understand that..
Lets see, using Sadow to discredit or diminish Kun's character, bravo lightsnake, yet irrelevant. It just says more about Sadow than less about Kun. Next
Yoda disarming Sidious...Ok? More misdirection?
Yoda is the strongest of the stronger era, ok? That says absolutely nothing for how he would contend with an ancient DLOTS.. No offense to you lightsnake because I have seen good arguments from you, but your arguments die the minute you start using misdirection and text as your focal points.

Ok, none of Kun;s abilities have to do with a one on one fight as he's proven to prefer his saber.

And the fights, as stated, took place in three areas: Kirrek's captial, Coruscant and Koros Major...Odan Urr and Ooroo were on Kirrek, FOUR JEDI were on Coruscant, deal with that. It stated several Jedi led by Memit.

and sorry, pal, Yoda being stronger than any Jedi from an era that, y'know, exterminated your rpecious ancients...
Yoda: Had access to numerous teachings of both the JEdi and Sith, including the 100,000 years worth of knowledge in Adas's holocron and the entire history of the Jedi, mastered all defenses and offensive powers
Exar: training from Vodo and what Sadow left being his prime materials.

Yeah, I'd say Yoda's knowledge far exceeded Exar's. Probably his physical strenth, too:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=505&page=65

See that? Yoda was carrying it. On. His. Back:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=505&page=65

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ok, none of Kun;s abilities have to do with a one on one fight as he's proven to prefer his saber.

And the fights, as stated, took place in three areas: Kirrek's captial, Coruscant and Koros Major...Odan Urr and Ooroo were on Kirrek, FOUR JEDI were on Coruscant, deal with that. It stated several Jedi led by Memit.

and sorry, pal, Yoda being stronger than any Jedi from an era that, y'know, exterminated your rpecious ancients...
Yoda: Had access to numerous teachings of both the JEdi and Sith, including the 100,000 years worth of knowledge in Adas's holocron and the entire history of the Jedi, mastered all defenses and offensive powers
Exar: training from Vodo and what Sadow left being his prime materials.

Yeah, I'd say Yoda's knowledge far exceeded Exar's. Probably his physical strenth, too

No, he's proven to use the amulet when he NEEDS to, which is VERY relevant to a versus fight lightsnake, especially if he is losing. May I remind you what the amulet does to his anger, and vice versa?
About the Great Hyperspace War, where are you getting this nonsense from? I'm looking at my comic book here and you seem to be making a lot of shit up. I realize it showed a total of 6 Jedi and that very well may be accurate, or it may not be which I presume it's not.. So get over it, your opinion is NOT fact. Neither is mine, which is why I try to logically deduce things, while you provide text, and misdirection as your argument.
Now... Again, Yoda being stronger than blah blah blah, your opinion is irrelevant here again. I can just as well argue that Kun, Ulic, and Revan are more powerful than Yoda and can provide an argument for it while you again will provide irrelevant misdirection, and quotes.. And for all of Yoda's access, Kun had direct access to the ancient sith, which beats any knowledge and amount of knowledge Yoda can have... Now...
Yoda's knowledge>Kun's=fanboyism and not fact..
Yoda's strength>Kun=fanboyism.. But of course you conveniently forget how Kun picks up the chancellor with 1 arm.. Nice one lightsnake..

ONE time, when being squeezed by a greature big as a mountain.

and you're full of crap: "A few Jedi, led by Memit Nadill fight on...they do not consider their chances of survival."
There are four Jedi. Disprove it. It says there are only a few Jedi, we see only Four ARRIVE ON THE PLANET...

That's fascinating, Kun picks up squid-boy with one arm...Yoda is lifting a huge crate tat's gotta way a ton on its own which holds a massive gattling gun that's about as big as a house

Oh I'm sorry, that all of a sudden means Yoda>Kun.. Please lightsnake enough.. I am well aware of the fact that there were 4 Jedi on that planet and 2 on the other one, that doesn't at all mean that there were 6 jedi fighting the republic. Like I said that COULD be the case but it's illogical to think that only 6 jedi fought in the hyperspace war(not for you because again you think it helps your case). And please discontinue this 10039580948509 irrelevant misdirection, because you still haven't stated how Yoda could possibly complete with Kun.

the comic narraration says "A few Jedi" and we only see four arriving on Coruscant and fighting...

And I think Nai summed up how Yoda can compete with Kun:
he's stronger, faster, more agile, at least as good with a saber, force knowledge-a guy who found Sadow's stuff has more knowledge than the guy studying from the most prized Sith and Jedi holocrons for centuries? Okay- and is the strongest Jedi of an era that trumped Kun's for strength.

Really, pal...Yoda is a saber and force master too

Originally posted by Borbarad
This is so "funny" I don't know if I should laugh at it.

a)
In a sheer force contest Yoda would limit himself to "defensive" force use as we have already seen when he duelled his "worst enemy". I don't see him using any "aggressive" force techniques - some force TK at max. Nothing that would be really dangerous for Kun. Even if he does - we've already seen Kun simply resisting a wall of light attack by Odan Urr.

b)
Kun's amulets will most likely work. The question is if he would use them fighting another Jedi Master (which is debateable) and if Yoda would be able to block the blasts.
Well...I, personally, don't think that Kun would use them for the single reason that he prefers duelling "worthy" opponents with his lightsaber. But let's assume he does. I don't know if Yoda can simply deflect those blasts (but I'll doubt it since a casual blasts of energy from a similar amulet was enough to floor Nomi Sunrider who was possibly the most gifted force user of her time). On the other hand I doubt that one of that blasts would kill Yoda and he's fast enough to dodge the beams if needed. So we can pretty much ignore the amulets.

c)
In a lightsaber confrontation it's getting tricky. Kun is perhabs the best lightsaber duellist the Sith ever had (except Tulak Hord), equipped with a unique weapon and a unique style. On the other hand you have Yoda who is capable of dodging lightsaber attacks from three different opponents (one of them a Vaapad master) at once as seen in "ShadowHunter".

Conclusion:
Really. I don't see anybody "pwning" the other in this fight. If somebody wins I'd say Kun because he might surprise Yoda with some amulet blast or finally outduel him because (I guess) Yoda would get tired faster because of his age and the fact that he uses a fighting style which requires tons of energy. On the other hand Yoda might also surprise Kun with his agility (most people tend to underestimate Yoda) and force strength. I don't know. But saying "Kun pwns Yoda" is pretty much stupid. Sorry...

Forget this statement conveniently? Thought so. And lightsnake you really need to learn how to debate. I never said Yoda isn't a force/saber master. I love the muppet and personally think he pwns. But there are certain people he cannot contend against, and one of them is Exar Kun, whether it's Kun's dark side/sith mastery, or saber combat+strength. At the very end, at Yoda's absolute best, he MIGHT be able to stalemate Kun via saber fight(but unlikely), Kun still has his amulet and sith magic to fall back on.

Forget what he said to you?

And big deal, Yoda has the force to 'fall abck on' and his knowledge exceeds Kun's by sheer virtue of studying what the light and dark for over eight hundred years. And where did you get the idea of Kun's saber mastery being so godly? He's never fought someone to the level of Yoda. Yoda's once again: Faster, more agile and likely stronger and was the undisputed best of the best era of dueling...and was one of two Jedi to be able to defeat Mace Windu.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Forget what he said to you?

And big deal, Yoda has the force to 'fall abck on' and his knowledge exceeds Kun's by sheer virtue of studying what the light and dark for over eight hundred years. And where did you get the idea of Kun's saber mastery being so godly? He's never fought someone to the level of Yoda. Yoda's once again: Faster, more agile and likely stronger and was the undisputed best of the best era of dueling...and was one of two Jedi to be able to defeat Mace Windu.


Force to fall back on? Knowledge exceeds Kun? How is this even a debate on your part anymore? Why are you adding this nonsense that means nothing in a saber fight? Yoda studied for 800 years, so all of a sudden he knows more than Kun by that fact? I didn't know quantity>Quality. I guess you conveniently forgot that Kun had all of the teachings of the ancient sith, through them and the Holocron, and limitless knowledge from Ossus.. Forget that part lightsnake? Kun is a lightsaber prodigy that is unmatched, where do you mean where I got it? It's fact, why after all this time are you bringing it up. Another attempt at misdirection maybe? And again, you think Yoda>Vodo which is your opinion, so obviously you don't think he's fought anyone on Yoda's level.. Oh but you conveniently forgot about Qel Droma, who was on his level while Kun didn't hit his apex yet. Yoda being faster, maybe maybe not, more agile, perhaps.. Stronger? Unlikely.. Beating Mace? Wow.. Read the Exar Kun vs. Mace Windu threads where they all state Mace would get beat, or tooled, I can't remember.. So far you have added very little that would prove Yoda's victory over an ancient DLOTS.. VERY Little...

I'm using logic, pal. And all of the teachings of the Ancients? I'd love to see that substantiated...he had Sadow's teachings...that's 'all' the Ancient Sith had?

and nno, Yoda does>Vodo, since he's outright stated to be the strongest Jedi. and et something through your skull: I don't CARE about the other threads and what the others say.

And yeah, Yoda's stronger...when Kun carries a gatling gun the size of a small house on his back without any strain, we can talk. And maybe you forget THIS, pal:

When'd Kun USE the holocron? He destroyed it without ever looking into it. when'd Kun use that knowledge from Ossus? He died how long after getting it? A few hours perhaps? And where was it said Kun was unmatched? So was Yoda, big deal....and last I checked, Ulic was matching Kun with a saber. Kun didn't 'hit his apex' yet? Right, that's a cop-out...Kun was already studying through what the Ancients had to offer...to quote him: "I have learned everything!"

Now, Yoda is able to move so fast he dismantles an army of super battle droids before most of them can react. Yoda is the strongest maste rin the Jedi Golden age and has access to all of the Jedi Holocrons and knowledge and all of the Sith holocrons and knowledge, including Adas's Holocron, which is the most treasured Holocron of all the Ancient Sith. Sure, Exar collected a Sith Holocron and stuff from Ossus...but he never used any of them, he never learned from them at all considered he destroyed the Sith holocron almost immediately and was trapped in total darkness hours after acquiring his prizes from Ossus.

It's not a debate anymore: Yoda was declared the strongest foe the darkness had ever known and the strongest Jedi Master who ever lived up to the PT, that's canon under the rules of the Holocron

I really don't even see how Vodo is on Yoda's level. At most he's the "Yoda of Kun's era", yet he's not as powerful. As he was utterly tooled by Exar Kun whereas I see Yoda actually having a chance (though I'd give Kun the advantage).



Yoda was capable of carrying a humongous gatling gun on his back in the CW comic. While he hasn't demonstrated much strength on screen, the fact is that the Force clearly enhances your strength. While Kun has more strength in his body than Yoda ever would without the Force (lifting the Chancellor up with ONE HAND by his head, breaking Vodo's staff twice, pushing Sylvar's face in) - the Force clearly can allow Yoda to compete in strength.

Let me give you examples of how our arguments go..

Me: Trying to use deductive reasoning.
You: Trying to use quotes, assumptions, and irrelevant misdirection... Now..
Maybe it was an exaggeration about Kun learning all from the ancient sith, but Kun specifically stated that he knew all from Sadow, which would already put him in the category of "more knowledge than Yoda". If not, then see Ossus.. Next.
I don't care if you don't care about the other thread. The crap and text you spew out has no bearing on versus threads, ESPECIALLY DEALING WITH ANCIENT SITH.. Now... Yoda being stronger than Kun is mindless speculation, nothing more.. Now... Trying to diminish Kun with absence of proof.. Lets see, the holocron belonged to the DLOTS and Kun had access to it. I guarantee you that logic states 100% that Kun used the holocron for that knowledge.. Now... As for Ossus, you're going to tell me he died shortly afterwards? I'm glad you know the specific time.. Yet he did have the knowledge accessible and it's logical that he viewed at least some of it.. That's more than you can say for Yoda.. Kun never actually used what he collected? Boy lightsnake, your argument is dying fast.. Adas' holocron is the most sacred out of them all? Nice speculation. Now, you have obviously lost this argument so I will leave you with one more thing because you really are thick headed and can't seem to understand simple concepts, especially since your argument is as good as the text you provide..
Yoda being the strongest foe darkness has ever known means NOTHING. That doesn't put him above ANY dark side users, in fact this statement just destroys your argument more. All it means is Dark sider users would have more trouble with Yoda, than with ANY other lightside users until Luke(which is true). In absolutely NO way does it state anything relevant, so you're right, this debate is over.. And Kun>Yoda.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
I really don't even see how Vodo is on Yoda's level. At most he's the "Yoda of Kun's era", yet he's not as powerful. As he was utterly tooled by Exar Kun whereas I see Yoda actually having a chance (though I'd give Kun the advantage).



Yoda was capable of carrying a humongous gatling gun on his back in the CW comic. While he hasn't demonstrated much strength on screen, the fact is that the Force clearly enhances your strength. While Kun has more strength in his body than Yoda ever would without the Force (lifting the Chancellor up with ONE HAND by his head, breaking Vodo's staff twice, pushing Sylvar's face in) - the Force clearly can allow Yoda to compete in strength.


Sama, notice how I didn't say Kun>Yoda in strength? I simply said Yoda>Kun according to lightsnake is pure speculation.

vodo: Foe of the Darkness
all Jedi: Foes of the Darkness
Yoda: The STRONGEST Foe of the Darkness
Yoda: Stronger than all other Jedi
Notice you neglect Yoda actually being called the strongest Jedi master, you keep ignoring that one

And that holocron belonged to the DLOTS? Odan-Ur owned it for a thousand years, pal. Explain how Kun could use what he collected when he physically died and was trapped in darkness almost IMMEDIATELY after he left Ossus! Kun left Ossus shortly before the Jedi did-notice the lack of time? Meaning the Jedi chased him back to Yavin and they were only shortly behind him...so, yeah, very short time. That's logic, pal.

And no, Adas's holocron being the best and most sacred was said in Evil Never Dies...that's where Adas came from, pal. And once again, pal: Where was it stated Kun learned everything? He knew what Sadow had, Sadow- all Sith? I'm sure that wall full of Sith holocrons Yoda accessed to learn more on the Dark Side as a master paled in comparison to the knowledge Sadow had on his ship...y'know, including the 100,000 years in Adas's holocron...

You lose, brat

Originally posted by Lightsnake
vodo: Foe of the Darkness
all Jedi: Foes of the Darkness
Yoda: The STRONGEST Foe of the Darkness
Yoda: Stronger than all other Jedi
Notice you neglect Yoda actually being called the strongest Jedi master, you keep ignoring that one

And that holocron belonged to the DLOTS? Odan-Ur owned it for a thousand years, pal. Explain how Kun could use what he collected when he physically died and was trapped in darkness almost IMMEDIATELY after he left Ossus! Kun left Ossus shortly before the Jedi did-notice the lack of time? Meaning the Jedi chased him back to Yavin and they were only shortly behind him...so, yeah, very short time. That's logic, pal.

And no, Adas's holocron being the best and most sacred was said in Evil Never Dies...that's where Adas came from, pal. And once again, pal: Where was it stated Kun learned everything? He knew what Sadow had, Sadow- all Sith? I'm sure that wall full of Sith holocrons Yoda accessed to learn more on the Dark Side as a master paled in comparison to the knowledge Sadow had on his ship...y'know, including the 100,000 years in Adas's holocron...

You lose, brat

Arguing with facts lightsnake? So since your argument is destroyed by your apparent immatury and denial(you lose brat), instead of insulting you and pointing out your transparent faults, I'll just break your illogical fanboy argument down 1 last time.. Let me start..
1. Odan Urr specifically stated that the Holocron is only accessible by a DLOTS, so you lose that argument.
2. I love how you twists events around to actually have your argument make sense. Kun had the holocron for an x amount of time, then he went to Yavin and then smashed it sometime later. The fact that you say he dies almost instantly afterwards, is retarded. Plus you again mix your facts around to prove your point(mission failed), considering Kun didn't go to Ossus until much later.
3. Your logic=not logic.. Your logic=your logic=fanboyism.
4. I specifically stated that he learned everything from Sadow, and you even confirmed my quote, now you are just looking foolish by contradicting yourself for the millionth time.
5. Show me the quote that states Adas' holocron is the most sacred one, and please don't make shit up like you have a tendency to do..
6. How is Adas' holocron even considered more sacred considering the fact that he was alive before the DLOTS, before the apex of sith power? Your point is moot..
7. Since when does it state Adas' holocron that it dated back to 100,000 years, because that is exactly what was said about the holocron that Odan Urr had, so again your point is defeated.

Since you lack the maturity to continue debating and losing arguments, I'll just say "pwned" one time, and let this argument speak for itself.