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Who wins?

Mace.. Yes

Mace Windu, pretty quickly. When two offensive forms clash, you can always expect a short battle.

I don't think Anakin has an answer for Vaapad..

It's not so muc that, I'm sure he would defeat Sora Bulq for instance. Mace is just far more skilled with his form than Anakin is.

yup... Makes sense..

Unlike yourself td.

uh good one troll. This is why youre the object of ridicule on this forum...

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Mace Windu, pretty quickly. When two offensive forms clash, you can always expect a short battle.

Darth Sidious practices Ataru, and the battle with Mace Windu wasn't really that short. Both Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn used Ataru in TPM, and Maul was a practitioner of Juyo - that fight lasted a decent amount of time.

Anyways, I'd concede Mace > Anakin; however it would not be easy under any circumstances. I'd expect a tough battle for Mace, but in the end he'd prevail.

Hey Sama, I need some common sense in the Nihilus thread, check it out.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Darth Sidious practices Ataru, and the battle with Mace Windu wasn't really that short. Both Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn used Ataru in TPM, and Maul was a practitioner of Juyo - that fight lasted a decent amount of time.

Anyways, I'd concede Mace > Anakin; however it would not be easy under any circumstances. I'd expect a tough battle for Mace, but in the end he'd prevail.

With Mace and Sidious, my point still remains because Mace was going on the defencive and thus not fighting with the philosophy of Vaapad.

And with the Maul fights in TPM, you'll notice that there are a bunch of small fights that keep on coming to a close before an opponent can emerge victorious. Thus the fights were not long, but there were a bunch of small fights.

So are you putting Maul over Obiwan?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So are you putting Maul over Obiwan?

Where did you get that indication?

Personally I don't think it's as open and shut as some people believe, given anakin's victory over Dooku

It was a question.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
With Mace and Sidious, my point still remains because Mace was going on the defencive

Mace was on the defensive? Perhaps I missed the entire fight or saw another version of the movie. Mace was not going on the defensive, and this can be seen throughout the entire fight.

Firstly, after Palpatine got rid of Tinn, and Kolar - Mace went to the offensive, and then Kit died. After that, when they move into the hallway, yes Mace goes on the defensive for about seven seconds, then at the end of the hallway he goes offensive for about two seconds, and back on the defensive again shortly. Next he locks up Palpatine for four or five seconds. After that, he goes fully on offensive, and Palpatine isn't even back on the offensive until the window breaks. Then Mace and Palpatine trade blows; albeit Palpatine is exerting more offensive moves. Finally Palpatine is disarmed.

All of what I said can be seen here.

Now tell me, when has someone who uses an aggressive, offensive form not go on the defense for a short while? Palpatine has done it, Yoda has done it, Anakin has done it, Qui-Gon has done it, Maul has done it, the list goes on.

However, Mace was not going on the defensive the entire fight like you're implying, thus your "point" (whatever it was) doesn't stand.



See above.



The fight was continuous - no one got a break (besides when it went one on one). It was basically the equivalent of Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting because they weren't always swinging their sabers around. And unless your telling me that Obi-Wan and Anakin had about twenty "small fights", then don't say it here.

And don't be ridiculous in your response - you're arguing nothing, and I'm pretty sure you know it. Or at least, I'd hope you know it.

oh my..

Hey, Sama, your IM alright? Noticed you vanished earlier?

I assume this is ROTS Anakin, and I assume this has been done before. The general consensus. is that Mace would beat Anakin. I agree that Mace would win, but it would be close. Anakin beat Dooku and Mace is only slightly stronger than Dooku is, so no matter who won it would be close, but kenobi helped tire Dooku out before Anakin killed him and Vaapad will be better off against Djem So than Makashi so I think Mace will win. Anakin is probably slightly faster and has more energy but Mace has everything else on him - experience, saber skills (probably) and Force skills, plus he's a Council Master and of equal rank as Yoda, so he should take Anakin, but it'd be a hell of a battle.

Originally posted by GM Nebaris
Unlike yourself td.
Uh, Darth Sexy = tdtd? What makes you think that, he doesn't seem like tdtd to me...

stupidity more than anything darthsith.

Well Mace will win but it wont be close. Windu is on par with our beloved Count - who just happened to get defeated by Skywalker. But then we have to take into account Kenobi was helping to tire Dooku out. So either Mace or Dooku could beat Anakin one on one but only just. With any outside help Anakin comes out victorious.

Then there is the fact that Mace practices Vaapad - the 2nd best duelling form. He is able to get his anger and use it against Anakin, much the same way anakin lets into his emotions and becomes enraged. So they basically cancel each other out. They are both very fit young men, so again they stalemate in that area. But Mace has more control than Anakin - this will give him the advantage needed to win. His force mastery and saber control far exceeds Anakins. Anakin is far more likely to make a mistake than Mace is, due to the fact he doesnt think clearly when angry. Mace's Vaapad will capitalise on this and probably ensure victory.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Well Mace will win but it wont be close.

Actually, it'll be a tough match for Windu. I don't know how you can even say that.



*sigh* Here it comes...



Oh My Goddess! Since when has Dooku ever gotten "tired out" or "fatigued" especially when Kenobi wasn't even a factor.

Really though, how can you say that considering:

1.) In AOTC he surprisngly had enough energy to take on and tool Obi-Wan, then toy with and slice Anakin, and still had enough energy to compete with Yoda for a solid two minutes. But yeah, I guess in ROTS he got so tired.
2.) He uses Makashi, and as I remember, Makashi was designed to use less energy.
3.) "He pushed this aside, drawing once more upon the certain knowledge of his personal invincibility to open a channel to the Force. Power flowed into him, and the weight of his years dropped away."

Anyways, point was Dooku doesn't seem to "tire out" easily, especially for like a three minute fight.



False. Escape and myself have both provided a multitude of facts on the subject of Anakin > Dooku. Anakin beat Dooku fairly, I simply don't understand trying to argue with the facts

The rest I somewhat agree with; the outcome really is the only thing.

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade, but wasn't Anakin, when he was thinking clearly, the strongest Jedi?

I don't know if this is actually from the Revenge of the Sith novelization or not (got it from an internet form of the book), but anyways:

"This is Anakin Skywalker:
The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it. "

And in RODV, wasn't he stated to be the best duelist in the Order when thinking clearly, too?

Either way, I don't try to argue it because you can bet about seven or eight people will say "1t's a n0v31 l0l n0t 0ffici4l".

Yeah. Only about two're three Jedi MIGHT be able to top him

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Actually, it'll be a tough match for Windu. I don't know how you can even say that.

Hahaha. Sorry, that was a typo on my part. I was meant to say that it would be a close fight. My apologies.



Wow. Nobody has put it quite that bluntly before. Tough comment to argue with but ill give it a go.
1. In AOTC Obi-Wan and Anakin really sucked. They were nowhere near the skill level of the Count. Plus he had to fight them one on one. But if I remeber once he eliminates them both you see him take a deep breath, as if to say that that used a bit more enegy than he expected. i could be wrong though, ill have to check. But he definetly looked tired when he was getting into his ship after his fight with Yoda.
2. True. but in ROTS he had to split his energy betwqeen two opponents, giving the duo a significant advantage. The duo on the other hand would logically then only have to use half there max energy each, thus not tiring out as fast. Plus Dooku was nearly 80 years old whereas Anakin and Obi-Wan were both young and fit.
3. Hahahaha. well i cant argue with the novel so you have got me there. but I must say that is a very good description of the Count. I like it...



What im saying is that Dooku is on par with Mace - who could beat young Skywalker. Im not saying that Dooku won in ROTS, but im saying that if it was one on one the Count would beat Anakin. This way he wouldnt be limited to not killing Anakin and not have to worry about Obi-Wan etc.



im glad we finally agree.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hahaha. Sorry, that was a typo on my part. I was meant to say that it would be a close fight. My apologies.

Not a problem, we all make mistakes...well, except me of course seeing as I am the Supreme Lady of KMC. (Just kidding of course)



Alright. Let the replies begin!



Seems to remind me of how ROTS Obi-Wan isn't anywhere near the skill level of Dooku.



One on one, right after the other. May I remind you that he also expended Force energy on both Anakin and Obi-Wan before he even bothered to take them on.



The script acknowledges that both Anakin and Kenobi were child's play: "With TWO LIGHTSABERS, ANAKIN attacks. COUNT DOOKU parries and ripostes. It is no contest."

As well the AOTC novelization describes Dooku's apparent "deep breath" as "Dooku gave another of his resigned shrugs."

I'd say it was more of a "*sigh* you guys are pathetic", but whatever.



Lol, you're wrong on this I'd say.

As Dooku and Yoda lock sabers (their last saberlock), Dooku turns his head - and takes down that crane using the Force. Now, as soon as he does that, Yoda turns to save Obi-Wan and Anakin, and we don't see the Count's face after he tears that crane down. The only real time we see Dooku's face is from afar as he's scurrying to his ship, just before he enters fully - he looks to see what happened for a split second and then he's gone. And even then, he's like ten plus yards away from the camera.



True, true. However number three of my previous post addresses this point.



No, Obi-Wan had to use more energy than normally as he dropped into the Ataru stance.



Here we go again. Palpatine wasn't "young and fit" by any standards, nor was Master Yoda, but not surprisingly they use the Force to compensate for their age, and health. You really think Anakin - even being young and fit - can miraculously jump 10,000 feet away, and onto a droid?



Yeah, not a bad description at all.



Really now? So...I guess Dooku can best Sidious as well then? Considering y'know, Mace did? Nope, doesn't work like that at all because I remember the Count being the apprentice (I also remember Sidious saying that Anakin is "far more younger and far more powerful than Lord Tyranus".



...?? The Count fought Anakin one on one, even after regaining his energy (as shown in ROTS novelization quote) and he still lost.

On top of that there's about seven other sources that concede to Anakin firmly being Dooku's superior.



Yeah, but still Anakin is factual better than Dooku either way you look at it. You don't even need to watch their ROTS fight because of all the other sources that agree Anakin > Dooku.

Anyways, back to Anakin and Mace. One question: why would Mace have a greater mastery of his form than Anakin? I know Mace mastered Vaapad to its highest degree, however, Anakin has done the same apparently. Obviously being the best Djem So user of the Order by the Count's own testimony of "...the boy was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen."

Mace Windu wins.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama



Whats your point? ROTS Obi-Wan was stronger than he was in AOTC thus logically being more difficult to beat in ROTS. It used up a fair amount of the Counts energy removing him from battle.



HAHAHAHA YOUR RIGHT!! I dont know what got into me before - in AOTC Dooku wtf pwned the duo. Ignore any of my foolish points that say otherwise...



I agree. i dont know what I was thinking before.



Hahahaha. That does seem like the sort of thing our beloved Count would do.





Hmmm. I sure there was a scene we you see Dooku slump into his chair on his ship. I must have been wrong though. However when it is a close up on him flying away he doesnt look very lively. I must say Dooku put up a great fight against Yoda, however he conceded to his former masters strength.



Well, thats Obi-Wans fault for being foolish. He was far better at Soresu than Ataru.



You are right to a point, however you must admit that younger people usually have a natural advantage in terms of strength. It was Anakins brute force attacks that caused the Count to tire after all.











I would say that Dooku is superior to Sids with a saber, but not in force abilities. Much like Mace Windu. Mace managed to overcome Sids with a saber then got wtf pwned with lightning. Much the same thing will happen with Dooku imo. However Dooku has been proven to block force lightning with his hands. And about that quote. Yes anakin is younger. This is a plus for Sids. And when he says powerful it could mean an array of things. I would say he is meaning physical power though.





Hahaha. We shall have to agree to disagree I guess. I cant be bothered arguing this particular point anymore because neither of us are willing to budge on our opinions. hopefully we can agree on this at least...

Mace and Yoda are probably the only two Jedi in the order that could beat Anakin.

Uhh Hm Let me see It seems to Me Mace was 2nd Only to Yoda so Ani Gets Demolished in a few seconds.

Originally posted by Hokage Yoda
Uhh Hm Let me see It seems to Me Mace was 2nd Only to Yoda so Ani Gets Demolished in a few seconds.

Get real, Hokage. We're not talking about the nine year old, bowlcut Anakin; we're talking about "the most powerful Jedi of his generation" Anakin. The one who is "far more powerful than Lord Tyranus", who coincidently is on par with Mace Windu (though I'd argue Mace is his slight superior).

Also the fact that he's one of the three people of the PT that can even contend with Sidious, I'd give him a hell of a lot more than a few measly seconds. I'd even give him a chance to win, though I'd give the bigger percentage to Mace.

The same One Defeated by Kenobi

You mean the man who knew all his moves when Anakin couldn't even see straight and had Obi on the defensive the entire time?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean the man who knew all his moves when Anakin couldn't even see straight and had Obi on the defensive the entire time?

Lightsnake I respect you *Bows* I pledge Myself to Your teachigs Master.

Originally posted by Motoko Sama
Get real, Hokage. We're not talking about the nine year old, bowlcut Anakin; we're talking about "the most powerful Jedi of his generation" Anakin. The one who is "far more powerful than Lord Tyranus", who coincidently is on par with Mace Windu (though I'd argue Mace is his slight superior).

Also the fact that he's one of the three people of the PT that can even contend with Sidious, I'd give him a hell of a lot more than a few measly seconds. I'd even give him a chance to win, though I'd give the bigger percentage to Mace.


Why even bother typing to a brick wall?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why even bother typing to a brick wall?

I'm sorry But I'm Just expressing My Opinion n00b

Your posts are nonsensical and irrelevant.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Your posts are nonsensical and irrelevant.

I'm sorry

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean the man who knew all his moves when Anakin couldn't even see straight and had Obi on the defensive the entire time?
Obi-Wan is always on the defensive, because he utilizes Soresu.

This is true, I only remember him ONCE being on the offensive and that was for a few seconds against Maul.

Well that's because in TPM he used Ataru, then after Qui-Gon's death he switched to Soresu.

Umm I think Anakin would definatly take this home, but it would be a tough fight for him but in the end, i think hed win.