Captain Marvel (DC) vs Wonder Woman

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joesha28
These two are the 3 Most powerful Heroes of the DCU along with Superman. These two trade punches with Kal. Who will win here?

joesha28
bump

Accel
I'd have to see how powerful current Captain Marvel is to really know. He might be too powerful for her now.

joesha28
Lets not take the current than...

joesha28
bump..

The Pict
wonder woman wins this. its hard to tell who is stronger as they are both sometimes said to be second to superman but I'd say WW. does she get any of her weapons in this fight?

UniOmni
Cap is stronger, but the weapons do help her. But he has taken attacks that turned him inside out, and was fine later. So, barring a lucky lasso trick, i'd say Cap 6.5/10

xmarksthespot
Hmmm... what has CM done to be considered stronger?

UniOmni
Lifted the Rock of Eternity.

Is pretty much Black Adam with a golden heart, and we know BA is Supermans equal in strength.

Can you honestly tell me, that you think WW maybe stronger than Cap??

WW has always been low rung top tier, but with exceptional skills for a top tier, at least to me.

Seeing Cap Marvel go head to head with Spectre>>>>>>Anything WW has ever done, imo.

Accel
Originally posted by joesha28
Lets not take the current than...
Well, with classic Cap, WW has the option of getting her lasso around him and causing him to change back to Billy Batson. Or the Medusa Head. Both are very cheap, but they're effective.

Accel
Originally posted by UniOmni
Lifted the Rock of Eternity.

Is pretty much Black Adam with a golden heart, and we know BA is Supermans equal in strength.

Can you honestly tell me, that you think WW maybe stronger than Cap??

WW has always been low rung top tier, but with exceptional skills for a top tier, at least to me.

Seeing Cap Marvel go head to head with Spectre>>>>>>Anything WW has ever done, imo.
Well, she did lift half of the Spectre (weight of Eternity).

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by UniOmni
Lifted the Rock of Eternity.

Is pretty much Black Adam with a golden heart, and we know BA is Supermans equal in strength.

Can you honestly tell me, that you think WW maybe stronger than Cap??

WW has always been low rung top tier, but with exceptional skills for a top tier, at least to me.

Seeing Cap Marvel go head to head with Spectre>>>>>>Anything WW has ever done, imo. Meh.. she has her own strength feats. Helping to lift the Spectre, the moon and planet towing with Superman et al, bracing Asmodel's chariot etc.

I'm not saying either one is stronger, I see them equal enough in strength for there to be no significant advantage e.g. Thing vs Colossus.
Low rung top tier though? What do you define as top tier then.

UniOmni
No, she tried. And failed. Kyle, iirc was the one who ended up lifting it.

Do you think WW is stronger than Cap??

Accel
Originally posted by UniOmni
No, she tried. And failed. Kyle, iirc was the one who ended up lifting it.

Do you think WW is stronger than Cap??
Along with Superman, she briefly prevented it from falling (which would actually be harder to do than merely lift it) and Kyle just simply made a tunnel underneath him.

Who's stronger is debatable, but it's not like the strength difference is so great that it would be the determining factor here. No matter who's stronger, WW still has her weapons and fighting skills.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Accel
Along with Superman, she briefly prevented it from falling (which would actually be harder to do than merely lift it) and Kyle just simply made a tunnel underneath him.

Who's stronger is debatable, but it's not like the strength difference is so great that it would be the determining factor here. No matter who's stronger, WW still has her weapons and fighting skills. Which would probably give her a very slim majority of the wins. A more definitive majority if she has her sword.

UniOmni
What do i consider top tier?? Class 100, pretty much.

But i do believe there are sub classes within tiers.

Top Tier

Low Top Tier- WW, Maxima, Mongal and Cap Atom, Firelord, Hulk(starting off)

Middle Top Tier- Thor, BRB, Supergirl, Jonn, Surfer, Morg, Mortal Hercules and others.

Elite Top Tier- Superman, Black Adam, Cap Marvel, Hulk(enraged), Orion, LightRay, True Hercules, Doomsday, Stardust and others.

Those are divided by stats. Not overall formidability, but stats. Physical comparisons.

She's still top tier. Just not the elite. And while she is considered number two to Supermans one, thats editorial mandate.
Same mandate that says Superman is the most powerful being on a planet that has Dr. Fate on it.
Marvel has shown repeatedly, to have what it takes to put him down.
And the fact that he's shown as Supermans equal, while she's only EVER been shown to be in the general ballpark is what cinches it for me at least.

xmarksthespot
Where do "barely there" CL100s fit into your subclasses? E.g. Thing or Colossus. Or people like Namor who can lift somewhere in the range of 100s of 1000s of tons on a good day.

I don't consider Captain Marvel significantly stronger than WW sufficient to be classified any differently, or vice versa. smile

She wins this due to skill and weapons.

UniOmni
I can concede to the logic of skill and weapons. But i will always maintain that he's significantly physically superior to her. To the same degree Superman is.

And Thing and Colossus aren't nearly there class 100s.
Thing gets by in his matches with Hulk, due to his skill and thinking. He will always lose a slugfest with Hulk. Always.

Colossus...........LMAO!! You think Colossus is nearly there?! Bwahhahh!
Colossus is the most pitiful brick i can think of in the mainstream. Colossus is about Class 85, as is Thing.

Namor would probably beat WW in the Water.
Outside he's still strong, but not enough to be considered top tier, imo.
But when he's good, he's really good.

The Pict
most places i read up on, cos i don't read much DC, states that WW is stronger. plus she has a connection with the earth right so she can lift pretty much anything on the planet? WW wins this.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by UniOmni
I can concede to the logic of skill and weapons. But i will always maintain that he's significantly physically superior to her. To the same degree Superman is. You're free to maintain that, but there's nothing to strongly indicate any significance to difference in strength levels. Error bars would overlap and p values are greater than 0.05

You didn't answer my question on Thing, Namor and Colossus. Do you put WW in the same subclass of CL100 as Thing and Colossus?

UniOmni
Read my post above. Thing and Colossus aren't class 100, by a significant margin.

Do you think WW is weaker than Superman??

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by UniOmni
Read my post above. Thing and Colossus aren't class 100, by a significant margin.

Do you think WW is weaker than Superman?? I'm confused, both Colossus and Thing are classed as class 100. huh So you'd put Namor in the low rung CL100s with WW. Ok... see between Namor and WW there is a significant difference in strength. Your system seems kinda flawed. Lumping together people with diverse levels of strength, while at the same time separating out people without any significance to the difference.

Is WW weaker than Superman? Yes but not sufficiently to be the deciding factor between them. I think the same of Captain Marvel smile

The Pict
Originally posted by UniOmni
What do i consider top tier?? Class 100, pretty much.

But i do believe there are sub classes within tiers.

Top Tier

Low Top Tier- WW, Maxima, Mongal and Cap Atom, Firelord, Hulk(starting off)

Middle Top Tier- Thor, BRB, Supergirl, Jonn, Surfer, Morg, Mortal Hercules and others.

Elite Top Tier- Superman, Black Adam, Cap Marvel, Hulk(enraged), Orion, LightRay, True Hercules, Doomsday, Stardust and others.


you can't put Marvel and DC characters in the same groups based on class 100. pretty much every DC character i see here is FAR above that.

UniOmni
Colossus is listed as Class 100 perhaps in a handbook, but he has no feats to validate that listing. None.
They will never put a true class 100 on a team like Xmen.
He would just throw off the team dynamic.

And Namor is listed as Class 85 in handbooks iirc. He's been shown to be above that many a time.
Going by people he's beaten, yeah he's class 100.
Who has Colossus beaten thats of any note??

As someone once said, " Namor doesn't contradict the handbooks. Handbooks contradict namor."

So you think Cap may be a bit stronger, but her skill and weaponry grant her a slight majority?? If so, i have no issue with that.
I just don't try to see things that really aren't there.

xmarksthespot
I was simply asking where you'd put these characters which most people on the forums consider at the cusp of CL100 in your division because it seemed flawed, and still does. How about Alpha Flight's Sasquatch?

So Namor is to be lumped with the low or middle tier under your system? Does Namor beat Captain Marvel underwater assuming both can breath?

UniOmni
Originally posted by The Pict
you can't put Marvel and DC characters in the same groups based on class 100. pretty much every DC character i see here is FAR above that.

Superman is the only DC character with a true plethora of strength feats.

One of these is his supposed "punching a moon in half", which to me looks like the equivalent of me extending my arms infront of me and simply running through a wall.

Another is the holding the blackhole feat.

Another is the pulling of the Earth, which was doing something with the earth to prevent water damage,iirc. And that was split between 3 people.

He has others, but he sets the bar in DC. And the ones who i put in his category, have done similar if not better, or have hurt him just by punching him. No bullshits, like magical charges, just pure punching power.

Hulk has feats that set him above Superman, and while nowadays they are far and few between, they exist.

DC Earth as a whole, does tend to operate a level above. But when the majority of your books have uber bricks in them, of course the feats are going to be plentiful.

Marvel Earth has two hardcore bricks, and that is Thor and Hulk. Hulk hasn't been nearly what he once was, and Thors dead/sleep.

No, Namor doesn't beat Cap Marvel underwater. But then again, i see Cap and Superman as equals, and WW as a bit beneath either in stats. Shouldn't be a surprise there.

Can you honestly tell me, that were WW and Teth to be switched in Sacrifice, that he would've needed the knite ring?? Really?

Accel
The ring didn't do Diana any good at all, since she was punched back to Earth the instant she took it out.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by UniOmni
Another is the pulling of the Earth, which was doing something with the earth to prevent water damage,iirc. And that was split between 3 people.Yeah. Who was one of the other two? smile
Originally posted by UniOmni
No, Namor doesn't beat Cap Marvel underwater. But then again, i see Cap and Superman as equals, and WW as a bit beneath either in stats. Shouldn't be a surprise there.Meh.. it really just seems like a Captain Marvel bias now. They're both significantly stronger than Namor, yet Namor beats her underwater but not him when whereas Namor can absorb electricity he can't absorb a sword.
Originally posted by UniOmni
Can you honestly tell me, that were WW and Teth to be switched in Sacrifice, that he would've needed the knite ring?? Really? You seem to always mention this when she didn't use the Kryptonite ring in the actual fight with him. He flew them right near to the sun. There was no charging of her fists either.

UniOmni
Its just that i've never seen her as an equal to Superman.
Thats how they've always been portrayed, from Precrisis to Post to Elseworlds.
She's only been in his range, but not on his level.

Superman killed her in S/B in about ten seconds. Can you really see that happening to Cap Marvel?

Cap MArvel vs Superman is always a stalemate. No so with Superman vs WW.

xmarksthespot
Is that the arc where he breaks her braces? huh

Accel
Originally posted by UniOmni
Its just that i've never seen her as an equal to Superman.
Thats how they've always been portrayed, from Precrisis to Post to Elseworlds.
She's only been in his range, but not on his level.

Superman killed her in S/B in about ten seconds. Can you really see that happening to Cap Marvel?

Cap MArvel vs Superman is always a stalemate. No so with Superman vs WW.
Batman knocked out Marvel with just a kick in S/B. Can you really see that happening to WW?

UniOmni
Batman is like Wolverine. Godly on so many levels.

Yep, thats the arc.

But while that maybe questionable, what about the arc when WonderWoman tried to fight Superman with her dagger, and he pretty much dismissed her?? Skill bedamned there apparently.

xmarksthespot
And strangled with the lasso which only she can wield? huh

UniOmni
Already admitted it was questionable. But the arc in Superman, where she tried to destroy some machine, and he pretty much dismissed her efforts........Where was her so vaunted skills then?

olympian
Originally posted by Accel
Batman knocked out Marvel with just a kick in S/B. Can you really see that happening to WW?

He didnt knock him out.

Not when Marvel was playing possum.

batdude123
Originally posted by joesha28
These two are the 3 Most powerful Heroes of the DCU along with Superman. These two trade punches with Kal. Who will win here?

Um... I already made this thread a while ago. confused

batdude123
Originally posted by olympian
He didnt knock him out.

Not when Marvel was playing possum.

Who were the ones that were TRULY playing possum? shifty Superman and Batman jumped their asses when they weren't paying attention. wink

joesha28
Ok, I'm giving Wonder Woman her normal equipments..bracelets, lasso.

According to my opinion, When it comes to DC earth's most powerful HEROES not characters, mind you...I think both Superman and Cap Marvel tie at number 1 while Wonder Woman is a close number 2 even in strength. I'm not stating characters cos in terms of strength i think Black Adam might pip a little higher than Supes/Cap but that might be wrong cos Supes/Cap holds back often.

rotiart
Originally posted by UniOmni
Colossus is listed as Class 100 perhaps in a handbook, but he has no feats to validate that listing. None.
They will never put a true class 100 on a team like Xmen.
He would just throw off the team dynamic.

And Namor is listed as Class 85 in handbooks iirc. He's been shown to be above that many a time.
Going by people he's beaten, yeah he's class 100.
Who has Colossus beaten thats of any note??

As someone once said, " Namor doesn't contradict the handbooks. Handbooks contradict namor."

So you think Cap may be a bit stronger, but her skill and weaponry grant her a slight majority?? If so, i have no issue with that.
I just don't try to see things that really aren't there.

The Official Marvel Handbook, Avengers 2004 lists his strength level as 100 tons, Per wikipedia subject matter: namor...

but anyways I'd like to think maybe that the 85 is an average. Between namor being in, and out of water. if thats what your handbook is showing.

rotiart
From Marvel.com: Namor possesses a high level of superhuman strength, enabling him to lift/press up to 100 tons while in contact with water; his strength gradually decreases according to the length of time he is out of water and can eventually dwindle to no more than slightly above human level.

So far, only marveldirectory.com is the only source showing namor to be 85... and thats a kinda dated website. any other books you looking at?

You know... If Namor had ANY kind of intelligence, he'd keep a decanter full of sea water on his body at all times, since just by having some he heals up and gets strong again.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by rotiart
You know... If Namor had ANY kind of intelligence, he'd keep a decanter full of sea water on his body at all times, since just by having some he heals up and gets strong again. Or he'd wear his specially made suit which keeps him hydrated at all times. A suit which he has been wearing in pretty much all his recent appearances.

Never question Namor's intelligence. stick out tongue

joesha28
Back on topic pls

olympian
Originally posted by batdude123
Who were the ones that were TRULY playing possum? shifty Superman and Batman jumped their asses when they weren't paying attention. wink

Yeah, they blindside them, sometime after they wer knocked out.

Hows that playing possum?

batdude123
Originally posted by olympian
Yeah, they blindside them, sometime after they wer knocked out.

Hows that playing possum?

No, they weren't knocked out. Maybe Batman, but not Superman. They allowed themselves to get caught in order to jump Billy and Hawkman when they weren't expecting it. They strategized. wink

joesha28
And lost.

Milkie
As of right now Wonder Woman has nothing on Billy

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Milkie
As of right now Wonder Woman has nothing on Billy

And where are you getting your info from?

Are we talking about the Wonder Woman that has lifted moons, and bridges and planets?

The same Wonder Woman who is the best fighter on the planet?

The same Wonder Woman who was punched from Orbit by a Superman who thought she was Doomsday and she got up?

We talking about the same Wonder Woman who has the gifts of more than 6 Gods? ( Counting her Weapons)

The same Wonder Woman who draws her strength from not only Demeter, but Gaea the Goddess of the Earth itself?

LOL. Captain Marvel is a watered down magical version of Supes. He was even sued for being such. Wonder Woman is the first and Greatest of all Female Super Heroes who was written to be the Equal Superman. She only lost that due to Idiot writers. And she has recently been getting it back.

Milkie
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And where are you getting your info from?

Are we talking about the Wonder Woman that has lifted moons, and bridges and planets?

The same Wonder Woman who is the best fighter on the planet?

The same Wonder Woman who was punched from Orbit by a Superman who thought she was Doomsday and she got up?

We talking about the same Wonder Woman who has the gifts of more than 6 Gods? ( Counting her Weapons)

The same Wonder Woman who draws her strength from not only Demeter, but Gaea the Goddess of the Earth itself?

LOL. Captain Marvel is a watered down magical version of Supes. He was even sued for being such. Wonder Woman is the first and Greatest of all Female Super Heroes who was written to be the Equal Superman. She only lost that due to Idiot writers. And she has recently been getting it back.

Read my post here

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=413019&pagenumber=8#post6964393

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And where are you getting your info from?

Are we talking about the Wonder Woman that has lifted moons, and bridges and planets?

The same Wonder Woman who is the best fighter on the planet?

The same Wonder Woman who was punched from Orbit by a Superman who thought she was Doomsday and she got up?

We talking about the same Wonder Woman who has the gifts of more than 6 Gods? ( Counting her Weapons)

The same Wonder Woman who draws her strength from not only Demeter, but Gaea the Goddess of the Earth itself?

LOL. Captain Marvel is a watered down magical version of Supes. He was even sued for being such. Wonder Woman is the first and Greatest of all Female Super Heroes who was written to be the Equal Superman. She only lost that due to Idiot writers. And she has recently been getting it back.

Oh, and Wonder Woman is good,but she is FAR from the best fighter on the planet. Batman is so far her superior in skill, that it isn't even funny.

batdude123
Originally posted by joesha28
And lost.

No, actually if you even bothered to READ the comic, they allowed themselves to be captured so they could jump Billy and Hawkman. It's called using your brain.

batdude123
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And where are you getting your info from?

Are we talking about the Wonder Woman that has lifted moons, and bridges and planets?

The same Wonder Woman who is the best fighter on the planet?

The same Wonder Woman who was punched from Orbit by a Superman who thought she was Doomsday and she got up?

We talking about the same Wonder Woman who has the gifts of more than 6 Gods? ( Counting her Weapons)

The same Wonder Woman who draws her strength from not only Demeter, but Gaea the Goddess of the Earth itself?

LOL. Captain Marvel is a watered down magical version of Supes. He was even sued for being such. Wonder Woman is the first and Greatest of all Female Super Heroes who was written to be the Equal Superman. She only lost that due to Idiot writers. And she has recently been getting it back.

When (other than the time she helped drag the moon in "Terror Incognita"wink did Wonder Woman actually LIFT a moon or a planet? roll eyes (sarcastic)

badabing
Originally posted by Soljer
Oh, and Wonder Woman is good,but she is FAR from the best fighter on the planet. Batman is so far her superior in skill, that it isn't even funny.
Co-signed.

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