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I'm not sure whether or not the two combatants involved in this fight are viable for this sub-forum (considering that both have minimal comic book exposure), but I'll post this match-up anyway. If this thread proves to be inappropriate for this sub-forum, then by all means place in in its proper spot or delete it.

I just recently watched two pieces of cinema (Underworld: Evolution, Angel: The Series) that directly deal with one of my favorite legendary monsters--the vampire. Although neither Selene or Angel possess any of the more extraordinary powers of the Classical Vampire, they are powerful in their own right. Thus, the thought occured to me: how would they fare against one another?

This is where I need your opinions, dedicated fans. Just who would prevail in this fight?

To get the ball rolling, I've provided my initial theory as to the victor of this duel:

Selene is of a different "strain" of vampirism than Angel. Hers is a viral infection by the Corvinus retrovirus. It morphs its host into a powerful being complete with inhuman strength, speed, sensory perception, mild resistance to injury, enhanced metabolism (which accounts for the Underworld's vampire regenerative ability), new dental records, and a paleness that wold make Kate Blanchett blush.

Angel, on the other hand, draws his vampirism from a demon. The host is subjected to a sort of demonic possession that, instead of dominating the body, forms a symbiosis with the physical being. Despite this difference, though, Whedonverse vampires have essentially the same abilities as the Weisman variant. Super strength, resistance to harm, regenerative ability, increased sensory ability, preternatural speed, and the Kate Blanchett paleness.

Given this information, I'd bet on Angel. Your thoughts?

wow. um. thats a long thread starter.

I'd give it to the girl. She was a great fighter besides her strengths. Angel was typically just a brute. So If we are to assume their powers are the same. Then you have the most skilled fighter of a clan, versus okay fighter.

I go with selene.

well it depends are u talking about pre-uber selene u know before she bites Alexander the father of all lycans and vampires????

angel is older(if you count the time he spent in hell that would make him 350) and he has more fighting skill and abilty he knows more fighting styles and he has taken on far stronger oppoenents then selen has.

angel for the win

Originally posted by rotiart
wow. um. thats a long thread starter.

I'd give it to the girl. She was a great fighter besides her strengths. Angel was typically just a brute. So If we are to assume their powers are the same. Then you have the most skilled fighter of a clan, versus okay fighter.

I go with selene.

of course you are going to dissagree with me but if you have ever watched the series then that is all the proof that you need to see angel is a far better fighter and not a brute as you claime he is.

Thank you, firstly, rotiart, for replying to my topic. I always appreciate the opinions of others, particularly when they differ from my own ^_^.

In response to your reply, though, I have to disagree. To say that Selene is a formidable fighter is an accurate observation. To label Angel as a brute, however, doesn't have the same degree of accuracy. Angel has demonstrated the same level of martial skill as Selene. Here are two of those said demonstrations:

1. Selene dispatches an entire force of armed--albeit human--guards in a woodland setting (UE) through the use of a carefully applied combination of martial technique and preternatural strength/speed.

--Angel has demonstrated his ability under a similiar circumstance. When facing a greater number of human opponents (in the episode 3ADH16 "Sleep Tight", he easily defeated them despite being outnumbered and unarmed, in relation to their melee armament.

2.) Selene fights Marcus atop a poorly supported bridge (UE). Though he is superior to her physiologically, because of his Hybrid strain, she manages to apply her martial technique which warrants her several damaging blows.

--Angel engages Skip in combat (episode 3ADH06 "Billy". He defeats him through his own martial ability, employing a series of dodges and counterattacks against the powerful demon.

Originally posted by MelmothTD
Thank you, firstly, rotiart, for replying to my topic. I always appreciate the opinions of others, particularly when they differ from my own ^_^.

In response to your reply, though, I have to disagree. To say that Selene is a formidable fighter is an accurate observation. To label Angel as a brute, however, doesn't have the same degree of accuracy. Angel has demonstrated the same level of martial skill as Selene. Here are two of those said demonstrations:

1. Selene dispatches an entire force of armed--albeit human--guards in a woodland setting (UE) through the use of a carefully applied combination of martial technique and preternatural strength/speed.

--Angel has demonstrated his ability under a similiar circumstance. When facing a greater number of human opponents (in the episode 3ADH16 "Sleep Tight", he easily defeated them despite being outnumbered and unarmed, in relation to their melee armament.

2.) Selene fights Marcus atop a poorly supported bridge (UE). Though he is superior to her physiologically, because of his Hybrid strain, she manages to apply her martial technique which warrants her several damaging blows.

--Angel engages Skip in combat (episode 3ADH06 "Billy". He defeats him through his own martial ability, employing a series of dodges and counterattacks against the powerful demon.

i have both underworld movies and i have all five angel sessions on dvd box set and your right about all of that you however did forget angel beat hamelton and iliyira who both have proved with out a dubt that they are above marcus

Good point roguefreak. I realize that I did not specify which Selene I'm pitting against Angel. To reconcile this issue, and to maintain a sense of equity between the combatants, I will place Selene at her strongest--following her draining of Alexander Corvinus.

Also, thank you for your reply Sea King. Angel's physical capability is a result of the demon within reaching such an impressive age--a whole three centuries!--, and I believe that that preternatural ability makes him more than a match for the formidable but ultimately inferior Selene (...I truly hope that no feminists are reading this post lol).

Meh , Alucard or Vampire hunter D steps in and slaughters them both . Blade is stuck in the background singing a (C)Rap

I've only watched a couple episodes of Angel

I'm not fit for this fight.

Originally posted by rotiart
I've only watched a couple episodes of Angel

I'm not fit for this fight.

all its kool thats how you learn

not only do i have all five angel box sets but i read the books/comicbooks

so i could tell you some things about him if you would like

Both Alucard and Vampire D are closer to the Classical (i.e. closer to the Bram Stoker imagining) Vampire in that their abilities far exceed what's considered "possible" by modern imaginings of the vampire. That's why I made no mention of them.

Blade I suppose is a worthy opponent to Selene and Angel--his abilities are closer in scope/range--but, as of now, has no place in this thread.

Originally posted by MelmothTD
Both Alucard and Vampire D are closer to the Classical (i.e. closer to the Bram Stoker imagining) Vampire in that their abilities far exceed what's considered "possible" by modern imaginings of the vampire. That's why I made no mention of them.

Blade I suppose is a worthy opponent to Selene and Angel--his abilities are closer in scope/range--but, as of now, has no place in this thread.

id say blades abiltys are on par with angels

Originally posted by MelmothTD
Both Alucard and Vampire D are closer to the Classical (i.e. closer to the Bram Stoker imagining) Vampire in that their abilities far exceed what's considered "possible" by modern imaginings of the vampire. That's why I made no mention of them.

Blade I suppose is a worthy opponent to Selene and Angel--his abilities are closer in scope/range--but, as of now, has no place in this thread.

Ahh , you mean a 'realisitc' vampire in a sense. What about the vamps in Trinity Blood ?

Personally I prefer the Selene(Mutant/External) Black Queen vampire, as for this thread I'd go for Selene(Underworld).

Spike (angle session five version) thumbup1

What about Ultraviolet ?

You'll have to forgive me, grey fox, but I'm not too familiar with the vampires of Trinity Blood. I remember reading something of a dossier on "The Methuselah," and the circumstances of their vampirism--viral, like Selene and Blade--but I cannot recall what strength range they fall within.

Please, grey fox, enlighten me to some of their abilities, as wel as the range and scope of said abilities?

***Other dedicated readers: pleae don't allow this tangent to distract you from the initial subject of this thread. Feel free to comment on the conversation between myself and grey fox, but don't neglect your opinions concerning the Angel/Selene bout either. Thank you.***

Originally posted by MelmothTD
You'll have to forgive me, grey fox, but I'm not too familiar with the vampires of Trinity Blood. I remember reading something of a dossier on "The Methuselah," and the circumstances of their vampirism--viral, like Selene and Blade--but I cannot recall what strength range they fall within.

Please, grey fox, enlighten me to some of their abilities, as wel as the range and scope of said abilities?

***Other dedicated readers: pleae don't allow this tangent to distract you from the initial subject of this thread. Feel free to comment on the conversation between myself and grey fox, but don't neglect your opinions concerning the Angel/Selene bout either. Thank you.***

Hmm well i'm pretty much a hellsing fan but let's see...

The Methuselah (based on the Biblical Methuselah) are a group of humans that have been infected by a virus that drives them to feed on human blood. Before the symptoms manifest, contact with sunlight does not harm them, and they age at the same speed as uninfected human. But once the symptoms start to make themselves evident, an "awakening", the virus will prolong the lifespan of its host, in addition to bestowing superior strength and healing ability. In turn, it feeds on its host's red blood cells, and when they become depleted, the virus will cause its host to crave blood, thus earning them the name "vampire". Common perceptions associated with the undead monster of mythology do not, however, hold true with regards to them: they can procreate (offspring inherit the condition), and they can consume normal food.

Once exposed to UV radiation, the virus will become overactive and consume the host's body. This gives the impression that the Methuselah's body is being burned up by sunlight and smoking - the latter effect being, in truth, water vapor.

The term "Methuselah" in the context of the series is what most vampires in general and Imperial nobles in particular prefer to be referred as; to call them "vampires" to their faces is often construed as a vulgar insult.

The Crusniks (based on Krsnik) are vampires who feed on the blood of other vampires. They possess immense power and destructive potential, easily able to overwhelm even the most powerful of Methuselahs and with enough strength to raze a whole city. Their lifespan is longer than that of normal vampires. However, whereas normal vampires in this series are born or infected, Crusniks are a result of an experiment, "expendable goods for the Mars Colonization project", according to Abel. Cain states at one point that he and Abel have identical DNA.


Cain in Crusnik form
Seth in Crusnik formWhen a Crusnik's nanomachines are activated, he or she undergoes a change in appearance:

Cain, Crusnik 01:
when his Crusnik powers are activated, he grows white wings, his eyes become red, and a black lance materializes in his hands. In this state, he can generate destructive red energy. When not in Crusnik form, he appears to have the power to launch a destructive and invisible force from his hands, perhaps being composed of sound waves.

Abel, Crusnik 02: with 40% of Crusnik nanomachines activated, his eyes become red, and a gigantic scythe made of blood materializes in his hands. At 80%, he grows black wings and can generate massive amounts of electricity. At 100%, he turns into a creature with dark skin, black bat-like wings and blue markings along his body. When not in Crusnik form Abel appears fairly weak, and fights with a pistol containing silver bullets.

Seth, Crusnik 03: when her Crusnik powers are activated, her eyes turn red, and a trident-like weapon made of blood materializes in each of her hands. In this state, she can almost instantly disintegrate her enemies. Similar to Cain, this power appears linked to the manipulation of sound waves.

Lilith, Crusnik 04: the mother figure to Cain, Abel, and Seth.

Wow. I'm impressed by the vampires of this setting, particularly the way in which they contract vampirism. The viral method has been used through and through, but rarely will an author go through great pains to base the vampire's physiology in some sort of realism. As the Methuselah virus makes contact with ultraviolet radiation, as an example of said realism, the virus begins to consume the host for survival which gives the appearance of burning. In a real world setting, some viruses, in response to radiation exposure, do consume some of the materials of the host. Nice realism parallel I must say.

Thank you for the information, grey fox.

Lestat kills them all....

In my limited opinion from what I've seen on the characters, Selene wins. From what I've seen, her agility and skill trump his.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Lestat kills them all....

In my limited opinion from what I've seen on the characters, Selene wins. From what I've seen, her agility and skill trump his.

have you seen session five of angel??

Originally posted by Sea King
have you seen session five of angel??

Muppet angel pwns

Originally posted by grey fox
Muppet angel pwns

i have the muppet

but yes he does

here it is

Originally posted by Sea King
have you seen session five of angel??

Nope, that's why it's a limited opinion.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Nope, that's why it's a limited opinion.

all well i see.


angel fought the most powerful and dreded ancint demon illirya (although he beat her he did not kill her and it was under certin circumstances)

angel fought hamelton and killed him he proved to be at a level that is well beyond marcus

Spike comes and kills them both.

Angel never beat illirya. He slowed her donw but nothing more.

Buffyverse vamps were weak. Of course, so were those in Underworld, but Selene has the skill advantage, so she should win.

Originally posted by grey fox
Ahh , you mean a 'realisitc' vampire in a sense. What about the vamps in Trinity Blood ?

I though I was the only person who watched that show. Do you mean the actual vampires or the anti-vamp priest guy with the white hair?

Originally posted by MelmothTD
Angel engages Skip in combat (episode 3ADH06 "Billy". He defeats him through his own martial ability, employing a series of dodges and counterattacks against the powerful demon.

Actually, if you watch series 5 (i think) Skip tells Angel that he threw that fight in order for some other mystical occurance crap to..... erm..... "occur"

(fair enough... Angel then goes on to kill Skip.... but that's not the point)



Originally posted by Sea King
angel beat hamelton and iliyira who both have proved with out a dubt that they are above marcus

Hamilton - Yes

Ileria - No.... Angel never beat her.... no one did (except hamilton)

Originally posted by Tassadar
I though I was the only person who watched that show. Do you mean the actual vampires or the anti-vamp priest guy with the white hair? I've never seen it , but on my old Hellsing forum they talked about it in high esteem stating it was a 'backwards hellsing' (Ie : The Vatican are the good guy's in TB whereas in Hellsing their the Rivals/Enemies)

Thank you for the reminder, Scoobless. You are correct in your assertion that Skip threw the first fight that occurred between himself and Angel. During the many revelations of season four, that thrown fight proved integral to the manifestation of Jasmine, former PTB.

Season four also featured the second battle to occur between Angel and Skip. As Cordellia experienced the birthing pains associated with bringing Jasmine into the world of the corporeal, Angel completed his own pesonal investigation which led him back to the lair of Skip. The vampire with a soul learns of the hand that Skip played in bringing forth Jasmine which prompts the second fight.

To be succint: Angel wins. To speak with a certain bluntness: he dominates. In the initial battle between Angel and Skip, the vampire was forced to assume his "game face" which provided a substantial boost in physical ability to "defeat" Skip. The second battle featured no such transformation (i.e. Angel managed to take victory--TRUE victory--over the demon without relying too much on his own personal, vampiric demon.)

These events are all visually displayed in the season four episode 4ADH17 or, as it is known in less technical terms: "Inside Out"

***Wow: reading is, truly, fundamental. I apologize, dedicated fans. I created my post without first reading Scoobless' entire post which does allude to everything that I just mentioned.***

Originally posted by grey fox
I've never seen it , but on my old Hellsing forum they talked about it in high esteem stating it was a 'backwards hellsing' (Ie : The Vatican are the good guy's in TB whereas in Hellsing their the Rivals/Enemies)

Damn, that means I AM the only one who watches that show. You should watch it, their are probly a few episodes on youtube.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Actually, if you watch series 5 (i think) Skip tells Angel that he threw that fight in order for some other mystical occurance crap to..... erm..... "occur"

(fair enough... Angel then goes on to kill Skip.... but that's not the point)





Hamilton - Yes

Ileria - No.... Angel never beat her.... no one did (except hamilton)

ah ok so getting her to work for them is not beating her in any since

Originally posted by Scoobless
Actually, if you watch series 5 (i think) Skip tells Angel that he threw that fight in order for some other mystical occurance crap to..... erm..... "occur"

(fair enough... Angel then goes on to kill Skip.... but that's not the point)



um wrong skip tells angel that in session five then they fight again and skip lets lose and does not hold back and angel still owns him

Illria only joined them when she was depowered. Until them she treated them more like pets. She tolerated them.

Angel did beat Skip in the second fight when neither were holding back.

Hamilton never beat a full powered Illria. He beat her when she was donw graded. Like wise Angel was only able to slow her down for a minute only and nothing more.