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Gill
(SfIII:third strike)




vs.


Igniz

I think this is a draw... Igniz has those huge juggle combos and some pretty heafty amounts of Priority, but Gill's got the elements, goot priority on his regular attacks, a multihitting projectile, Ressurection and Seraphic Wing.

gill takes this with ease.

Igniz feeds on fighting energy, anyway gill wins, igniz lost to kyo, iori and K.

Gill takes this like Emperor Ashtar said

Gill's got some juggling as well... pretty much restricted to the corner though

gill can make meteors rain from the sky

Originally posted by Remulous
gill can make meteors rain from the sky lol

Gameplaywise, Igniz. I really hate the guy, more than I hate Gill. But unfortunately, he owns Gill's ass. The brutal god project alone would almost give him the win. Igniz is just more powerful than Gill. Storywise, hard to call.

If were comparing gameplay wise, igniz would pwn.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Igniz feeds on fighting energy, anyway gill wins, igniz lost to kyo, iori and K.

Actually he lost to kyo,iori,k, terry, kyo and many of the others in the cast of KOF. I dont think Gill could have done that. I say Igniz, all the way.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Actually he lost to kyo,iori,k, terry, kyo and many of the others in the cast of KOF. I dont think Gill could have done that. I say Igniz, all the way.
Hence he lost to weaker characters, And where does terry come from. Kyo and iori inserted the their flame powers into K' creating the "Justice flame" that jobbed igniz.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Hence he lost to weaker characters, And where does terry come from. Kyo and iori inserted the their flame powers into K' creating the "Justice flame" that jobbed igniz.

Yeah he lost to TONS of weaker characters. You missed my point again. He took on ALMOST THE WHOLE CAST of Kof, all at once by himelf, Including Terry you should read some of the Offical 2001 story line.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Yeah he lost to TONS of weaker characters. You missed my point again. He took on ALMOST THE WHOLE CAST of Kof, all at once by himelf, Including Terry you should read some of the Offical 2001 story line.

What's your point, He wouldn't be much of a boss if he couldn't beat the cast of weaker characters now would he, Hell Zero did the samething. Doesn't change the fact kyo,K, and iori beat him soundly after everyone was K.O'ed now does it.

And what feats does he have to par against gill, beating weaker characters doesn't tell me jack. Guy and cody plow through TONS of weak canon fodder all day, should they be boss status?! Bison in alpha 3 did the samething, except he didn't lose like igniz. Gill, even fought weaker people at the sametime, so, how does that help your argument?

Oh boy... another quarrel bitween you two...

Alright, lets put this into perspective a little... Asthar - you list all of Gill's feats and abilities, as well as any weakneses (Don't be shy on that last one ok.

2D - you do the same for Igniz, then we can draw a conclusion based on these facts (And don't put in any bullshit - I do know the story of KOF well enough to spot a lie when I see it)

Gill is the owner of the power of miracle, which is why he can perform "The Ascension".

Gill enjoys learning, and is constantly trying to improve himself
both mentally and physically. He's very knowledgeable of countless
martial arts and hopes to obtain the ultimate fighting style.

His fighting style is " "Fighting Techniques of the Mysterious Organization" There are 66 secret techniques of the Mysterious Organization,including Resurrection. It's impossible to master all the fighting techniques of the Mysterious Organization.

Gill is VERY powerful, storylinewise. He can also create fire and ice
out of with his mind, and he can UN-create fire and ice, as well.

He can also ressurect himself, even from death (if something ever
somehow manages to kill him in the first place). And even then, his
organization, like Shadaloo, also makes back-up bodies for him (you can see
one in Urien's Third Strike ending, too). Though his organization makes
much better back-up bodies than Shadaloo did, so no "Gill being in a new
weaker body" for Gill. And his soul is immortal, like M. Bison's

Bison's soul is not immortal, as evidenced by Gouki's killing him with the shun goku satsu. And I have my doubts about Gill surviving one after having used ressurection. Gameplaywise, Gill has only two things that are really boss-like, his meteor shower and Seraphic wing supers. Though Gill has high priority and damage, he is none the less playable and beatable. Igniz on the other hand, has never been playable. The question is, which is worse, making a boss character toned down enough to be compedative, or not making a guy playable at all because there was no way to tone him down enough to make him fair?

Ashtar, you haven't given us any concrete information as Darkstorm asked for. You've given us some vague info, very little of which has to do with the arguement at hand. you also left out some important info. Like that Bison was more powerful than Gill at his full power, and the reason Bison's body was inferior was because he merged back together with his good side and the psycho drive's destruction. It wasn't the quality of the bodies, it was the source of his power itself that made Bison weaker. Also, as mentioned, Gouki easily killed Gill with the shun goku satsu.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Bison's soul is not immortal, as evidenced by Gouki's killing him with the shun goku satsu. And I have my doubts about Gill surviving one after having used ressurection. Gameplaywise, Gill has only two things that are really boss-like, his meteor shower and Seraphic wing supers. Though Gill has high priority and damage, he is none the less playable and beatable. Igniz on the other hand, has never been playable. The question is, which is worse, making a boss character toned down enough to be compedative, or not making a guy playable at all because there was no way to tone him down enough to make him fair?

Oh brother, Trickster, were not comparing them in terms of game mechanics. Were comparing them within their respective plots and feats I.E. stroyline comparison. And the Shun-Goku-Satsu did not kill bison, It dumped his soul in hell. Bison's soul is immortal since he transfered bodies couple of times, gill can do the same.



Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Ashtar, you haven't given us any concrete information as Darkstorm asked for. You've given us some vague info, very little of which has to do with the arguement at hand. you also left out some important info. Like that Bison was more powerful than Gill at his full power, and the reason Bison's body was inferior was because he merged back together with his good side and the psycho drive's destruction. It wasn't the quality of the bodies, it was the source of his power itself that made Bison weaker. Also, as mentioned, Gouki easily killed Gill with the shun goku satsu.

What does bison and gouki have to do with this debate, why would I mention them. Bison is dead by the time gill comes into the story and Gouki doesn't even know who gill is.

DarkStorm asked me to list gills strength and weaknesses, and I did.

Wrong on the last count. Gouki does know who Gill is and he killed him before the tournament started, as I said.

From Wiki: "As with the second World Warrior tournament, Akuma did not enter the third World Warrior tournament, but once more lurked in the shadows. He even successfully pulled off a Shun Goku Satsu on the tournament sponsor Gill, although he left without realizing that Gill had resurrected himself."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akuma_%28Street_Fighter%29

Here is the link if you want to check.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Wrong on the last count. Gouki does know who Gill is and he killed him before the tournament started, as I said.

From Wiki: "As with the second World Warrior tournament, Akuma did not enter the third World Warrior tournament, but once more lurked in the shadows. He even successfully pulled off a Shun Goku Satsu on the tournament sponsor Gill, although he left without realizing that Gill had resurrected himself."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akuma_%28Street_Fighter%29

Here is the link if you want to check.


Wikipedia is not the authority of canon, it's not even a good source for the canon.

And that event is full of hot air, alex fought gill an won the tournament, so, how could gouki sneak in and kill him?!

Plus, they got the gouki's storyline wrong.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Wikipedia is not the authority of canon, it's not even a good source for the canon.

And that event is full of hot air, alex fought gill an won the tournament, so, how could gouki sneak in and kill him?!

Plus, they got the gouki's storyline wrong.


hahahaa yeah well said

I'm not saying anything further till 2D posts...

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Gill is the owner of the power of miracle, which is why he can perform "The Ascension".

Gill enjoys learning, and is constantly trying to improve himself
both mentally and physically. He's very knowledgeable of countless
martial arts and hopes to obtain the ultimate fighting style.

His fighting style is " "Fighting Techniques of the Mysterious Organization" There are 66 secret techniques of the Mysterious Organization,including Resurrection. It's impossible to master all the fighting techniques of the Mysterious Organization.

Gill is VERY powerful, storylinewise. He can also create fire and ice
out of with his mind, and he can UN-create fire and ice, as well.

He can also ressurect himself, even from death (if something ever
somehow manages to kill him in the first place). And even then, his
organization, like Shadaloo, also makes back-up bodies for him (you can see
one in Urien's Third Strike ending, too). Though his organization makes
much better back-up bodies than Shadaloo did, so no "Gill being in a new
weaker body" for Gill. And his soul is immortal, like M. Bison's


HAHAHA nice , you probably copy/pasted that from wikipedia or some bullsh@t. ANyways you have yet to adress one feat that ignaz performed. GILL LOST TO ONE WEAKER CHARCTER, KEN. UNDERSTAND? IGNIZ FOUGHT AND LOST TO THE ALMOST THE WHOLE KOF CAST . all that stuff you just said is irrelevant. READ , what I said, think about it, process it. GILL LOST TO KEN (SOMEPEOPLE SAY ALEX, WHICH WOULD BE WORSE), IGNiZ LOST TO KYO IORI, K', TERRY AND RYO . GET IT THAT TIME?

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
HAHAHA nice , you probably copy/pasted that from wikipedia or some bullsh@t. ANyways you have yet to adress one feat that ignaz performed. GILL LOST TO ONE WEAKER CHARCTER, KEN. UNDERSTAND? IGNIZ FOUGHT AND LOST TO THE ALMOST THE WHOLE KOF CAST . all that stuff you just said is irrelevant. READ , what I said, think about it, process it. GILL LOST TO KEN (SOMEPEOPLE SAY ALEX, WHICH WOULD BE WORSE), IGNiZ LOST TO KYO IORI, K', TERRY AND RYO . GET IT THAT TIME?

Gill never fought ken, and I never use wikipedia.
Igniz beating a bunch of weaklings is not a feat, If dan beats a 100 5 year olds, is that a feat?

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
HAHAHA nice , you probably copy/pasted that from wikipedia or some bullsh@t. ANyways you have yet to adress one feat that ignaz performed. GILL LOST TO ONE WEAKER CHARCTER, KEN. UNDERSTAND? IGNIZ FOUGHT AND LOST TO THE ALMOST THE WHOLE KOF CAST . all that stuff you just said is irrelevant. READ , what I said, think about it, process it. GILL LOST TO KEN (SOMEPEOPLE SAY ALEX, WHICH WOULD BE WORSE), IGNiZ LOST TO KYO IORI, K', TERRY AND RYO . GET IT THAT TIME?

Thank you, for not actually doing what I had asked, and instead just attacked the oppositions post... making your argument irrelevant to me entirely.

I applaud Asthar for being the only one to take the time to construct an argument worth reading.

2D, Gill never fought Ken, and was going easy on Alex... Now I am trying to get a worthwhile debate going on here, instead of attacking the opposite argument, please go and do what I asked, and explain to me how and why Igniz will win, do that, provide the argument, and we can have a civil debate without you and Asthar calling eachother bullshitters...

The only worth mention ability Igniz has is his power to absorb "Fighting Data" from his opponents. His suit then synthesizes the data into his own power which he uses against his opponent. Like Zero, his power is completely dependent on his suit. Any damage to it reduces his chances of victory. Gill, could damaga the suit enought to render igniz powerless. Not to mention gill is a better at H2H, As I proved earlier. Plus even if you somehow manage to kill him, he can ressurect himself. How does igniz win now?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Thank you, for not actually doing what I had asked, and instead just attacked the oppositions post... making your argument irrelevant to me entirely.

I applaud Asthar for being the only one to take the time to construct an argument worth reading.

2D, Gill never fought Ken, and was going easy on Alex... Now I am trying to get a worthwhile debate going on here, instead of attacking the opposite argument, please go and do what I asked, and explain to me how and why Igniz will win, do that, provide the argument, and we can have a civil debate without you and Asthar calling eachother bullshitters...

hahaha i did state a valid argument. seems that you didnt get it either. Could Gill take on the entire KOF cast, I think not. HE HAS YET TO REFUTE THIS.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
hahaha i did state a valid argument. seems that you didnt get it either. Could Gill take on the entire KOF cast, I think not. HE HAS YET TO REFUTE THIS.

Because it's a stupid argument, your using a feat involving igniz jobbing the entire kof 2001 cast. Yet, despite all that he somehow loses to K ,Kyo, and Iori. If that's the case, yeah gill can do it, so, can Bison, Gouki, and oro.


Kof bosses are relatively al show, because no matter how strong they are, they will always miraculously lose to some flame user.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
hahaha i did state a valid argument. seems that you didnt get it either. Could Gill take on the entire KOF cast, I think not. HE HAS YET TO REFUTE THIS.

But you failed to do what I asked, hence why I said what I said.

What I asked you to do was, list Igniz's powers, abilities and weaknesses, from there I could compare to Asthars list for gill and could help reach a conclusion. This coupled with the feats could have given us a clearer picture to work with. instead what I got from you was an attack on Asthars list of Gill's capabilities and no info on Igniz whatsoever besides the feat of him challenging multiple fighters... Not at all what I asked for...

Now, are you prepared to do what I asked?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
But you failed to do what I asked, hence why I said what I said.

What I asked you to do was, list Igniz's powers, abilities and weaknesses, from there I could compare to Asthars list for gill and could help reach a conclusion. This coupled with the feats could have given us a clearer picture to work with. instead what I got from you was an attack on Asthars list of Gill's capabilities and no info on Igniz whatsoever besides the feat of him challenging multiple fighters... Not at all what I asked for...

Now, are you prepared to do what I asked?

WTF. you two are nuts. you can go to hell, i dont need do what you say. And what I said makes perfect sense. Just because i didnt present it the way you wanted doesnt, mean its a pile of bullsh@t. So, I listed a argument that you dont seem is relevant, your opinion. good for you. What i said still has be answered for.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
But you failed to do what I asked, hence why I said what I said.

What I asked you to do was, list Igniz's powers, abilities and weaknesses, from there I could compare to Asthars list for gill and could help reach a conclusion. This coupled with the feats could have given us a clearer picture to work with. instead what I got from you was an attack on Asthars list of Gill's capabilities and no info on Igniz whatsoever besides the feat of him challenging multiple fighters... Not at all what I asked for...

Now, are you prepared to do what I asked?

I just listed igniz's abilities already, that's the sad part.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Because it's a stupid argument, your using a feat involving igniz jobbing the entire kof 2001 cast. Yet, despite all that he somehow loses to K ,Kyo, and Iori. If that's the case, yeah gill can do it, so, can Bison, Gouki, and oro.


Kof bosses are relatively al show, because no matter how strong they are, they will always miraculously lose to some flame user.

Your opinion. Yet again. tsk tsk tsk.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
Your opinion. Yet again. tsk tsk tsk.

Just because your an ignoramus, doesn't mean it's an opinion.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Just because your an ignoramus, doesn't mean it's an opinion.

hahaha , oh yeah. and internet fight. scary. and im the one using names? bwhahaha

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
WTF. you two are nuts. you can go to hell, i dont need do what you say. And what I said makes perfect sense. Just because i didnt present it the way you wanted doesnt, mean its a pile of bullsh@t. So, I listed a argument that you dont seem is relevant, your opinion. good for you. What i said still has be answered for.
What you said made no sense, Your claiming that igniz jobbing the kof cast is a fewat. Despite the fact he lost to 3 people of the same cast, how the hell does that make sense.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
hahaha , oh yeah. and internet fight. scary. and im the one using names? bwhahaha

It's a debate, not a fight, man your thick.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What you said made no sense, Your claiming that igniz jobbing the kof cast is a fewat. Despite the fact he lost to 3 people of the same cast, how the hell does that make sense.



It's a debate, not a fight, man your thick.

you just go ahead patting yourself on the back. Im so sorry that i insulted a genius like you..... may gawd forgive me.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
you just go ahead patting yourself on the back. Im so sorry that i insulted a genius like you..... may gawd forgive me.

What are you talking about, your the one making this a big deal not me.



Is it that time of the month, already?

Hold on.... This is what I asked for -

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh boy... another quarrel bitween you two...

Alright, lets put this into perspective a little... Asthar - you list all of Gill's feats and abilities, as well as any weakneses (Don't be shy on that last one ok.

2D - you do the same for Igniz, then we can draw a conclusion based on these facts (And don't put in any bullshit - I do know the story of KOF well enough to spot a lie when I see it)

And this is what I got?

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
HAHAHA nice , you probably copy/pasted that from wikipedia or some bullsh@t. ANyways you have yet to adress one feat that ignaz performed. GILL LOST TO ONE WEAKER CHARCTER, KEN. UNDERSTAND? IGNIZ FOUGHT AND LOST TO THE ALMOST THE WHOLE KOF CAST . all that stuff you just said is irrelevant. READ , what I said, think about it, process it. GILL LOST TO KEN (SOMEPEOPLE SAY ALEX, WHICH WOULD BE WORSE), IGNiZ LOST TO KYO IORI, K', TERRY AND RYO . GET IT THAT TIME?

And you call that an answer to my request? and now your telling me off for not accepting it? Dude, I se no list of Igniz's capabilities, so this is in no way shape or form an answer to my request... learn to read...

No, you don't have to do what I say, but you could have the decency to say "No Darkstorm, I won't do this because....." instead of tearing into me when I ask why you didn't do it.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
What are you talking about, your the one making this a big deal not me.



Is it that time of the month, already?

who's the one who wont drop the insults?and keeps posting random insults. Not me, im just trying to point out that you're giving your poinions and callign thme facts. You assumed that bison could beat Igniz, therefor gill thats your opinion. THATS assuming that bison is more powerfull than gill , many people would argue the validity of that statement. so youre arument makes no sense

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

And you call that an answer to my request? and now your telling me off for not accepting it? Dude, I se no list of Igniz's capabilities, so this is in no way shape or form an answer to my request... learn to read...



I just listed igniz's capabilities darkstorm, did you miss it?

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
who's the one who wont drop the insults?and keeps posting random insults. Not me, im just trying to point out that you're giving your poinions and callign thme facts. You assumed that bison could beat Igniz, therefor gill thats your opinion. THATS assuming that bison is more powerfull than gill , many people would argue the validity of that statement. so youre arument makes no sense

I insult you because your a moron, I refuted your stupid argument many times before and you keep bringing it up, again.

So, I'll tell you again, Beating a majority of weak fighters is not a feat. It's not an opinion, Guy and cody beat gangs all the time, Sakura beats criminals often, does that mean they should be boss cahracters?

And your the one making this into a big deal, typing in caps and insulting people first. Stop being a B-i-t-c-h, and learn how to post.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I just listed igniz's capabilities darkstorm, did you miss it?

You told me about the fighting data siphon suit, which both the Zero's and Krizalid also posessed, but Igniz has more than just that I beleive, otherwise those two would have run roughshot over him.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You told me about the fighting data siphon suit, which both the Zero's and Krizalid also posessed, but Igniz has more than just that I beleive, otherwise those two would have run roughshot over him.

Maybe he has more fighting data who knows, It's clear snk didn't think him through.

Meh *Shrugs*

I like cereal

oowh sjeez can't we get along with each other

Originally posted by shin_remy
oowh sjeez can't we get along with each other

yeah I can. But some people wont let things die. Anyways, Ignaz did not beat up a bunch of "weak fighters". Kyo is almost on par with Ryu ( otherwise SNK and Capcom wouldnt consider them rivals.), K' is on par with Kyo, most people say that Iori is stronger that kyo even. Ignaz did not defeat "WEAK FIGHTERS". Igniz took on almost the whole cast of Kof. Read the official SNk storyline.
And yeah, in some stories Gill got beat by ONE ken or ONE alex. So, what that does that say abotu his powers?
Igniz fought on data, true. But this powers them selves were crazy. He has two ONE HIT kills. Remember he can juggle like a bad mofo. and Gill can only come back to life once. He wanted to consider himself a god , much like Gill.

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
yeah I can. But some people wont let things die. Anyways, Ignaz did not beat up a bunch of "weak fighters". Kyo is almost on par with Ryu ( otherwise SNK and Capcom wouldnt consider them rivals.), K' is on par with Kyo, most people say that Iori is stronger that kyo even. Ignaz did not defeat "WEAK FIGHTERS". Igniz took on almost the whole cast of Kof. Read the official SNk storyline.
And yeah, in some stories Gill got beat by ONE ken or ONE alex. So, what that does that say abotu his powers?
Igniz fought on data, true. But this powers them selves were crazy. He has two ONE HIT kills. Remember he can juggle like a bad mofo. and Gill can only come back to life once. He wanted to consider himself a god , much like Gill.

Wow, so igniz was not stronger than the cast of kof, I wonder how he beat them if he was not stronger than them

Kyo on par with ryu, lol!

well gill can back to life not one time, but several times, and his organisation has back up body's for him

I don't think Kyo is on par with Ryu

and yes Gill lost from Ken in the Japanese street fighter 3 third strike comic. but comics are uncanon ALL Comics, but it is a good comic and a butifeaul fight between Gill and Ken

the fight between Urien and Ken was very nice too!! but forget about Ken, sorry about that

Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
yeah I can. But some people wont let things die. Anyways, Ignaz did not beat up a bunch of "weak fighters". Kyo is almost on par with Ryu ( otherwise SNK and Capcom wouldnt consider them rivals.), K' is on par with Kyo, most people say that Iori is stronger that kyo even. Ignaz did not defeat "WEAK FIGHTERS". Igniz took on almost the whole cast of Kof. Read the official SNk storyline.
And yeah, in some stories Gill got beat by ONE ken or ONE alex. So, what that does that say abotu his powers?
Igniz fought on data, true. But this powers them selves were crazy. He has two ONE HIT kills. Remember he can juggle like a bad mofo. and Gill can only come back to life once. He wanted to consider himself a god , much like Gill.

I loft wove.