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look how many corps are backin the bluray format

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluray#Corporate_support

with spiderman 3 comin to bluray first it will smash the hddvd sales plus starwars will come to bluray because of twentycenture fox.

better get a PS3 early becuase is goin to be cheaper and better than hd dvd.

My thinkng is that neither of the formats will win...

It's just too little, too soon. The majority of consumers don't even care about High-Def... something like 90% of people who live where HD is available still watch SD. They don't care, they're not ready for it... And by the time comsumers are ready, the japanese holographic discs will be out which can hold upwards of 1 TB of data.

They're both gonna flop.

I agree it is too soon. Not everyone is even set on DVD yet. It wasn't until everyone was on VHS that DVD came into play. And DVD is still considered a luxury to some people, who only own two or three movies.

DVD isn't a big enough medium quite yet to move up to the new age of home video.

Oy. I didn't want to get into a stupid BR vs HD-DVD debate on these forums, given I'm already going so on two others, but I'll lay it out fo you.

Blu-ray blows goats. Period. Not only did they ship their initial players out to early, resulting in players across the US having faulty processors, the damn thing is $1,000.. Yes, $1,000 for a "higher that high definition" player who's movies codec is MPEG-2, the standard for SD-DVD, not HD-DVD. Not only that, but software providers have actually delayed titles for BR, based on the market and how well HD-DVD is doing.

Blu-ray is promoting potential. Potential that HD-DVD is already offering. Sony has been shooting themselves in the foot with their rushed BR product. Not only that, but the BR players have been quoted as being too expensive to build as it is, in addition to SONY's fauly cells and the shortage of blue diodes for the players. They said they can't even fix the big in the current players until SEPTEMBER, while the Toshiba HD-DVD players have already offered customers 4 firmware upgrades, for free, eliminating all bugs, as well as offering new features for their players.

Anycrap, the PS3 vs 360 debate with HD shouldn't even be one. The PS3 with BR player is $600. The 360's are getting a price drop to $299(base) and $399(premium) before the PS3 launch, and the HD-DVD drive will be anywhere from $100-$200 dollars, making it cheaper than the PS3 as it stands.

Everything is going HD-DVD's way, if you ask me. All the doubters need to do a little more reading into the formats, honestly. One is going to come out on top. The technology is here, now, and selling.

That's how much 360's are now. A price drop probably won't happen before the PS3 launch, no need, really. It could happen, but it's all rumors at this point.

Also, I think that HD-DVD has a name advantage that a lot of people don't realize. Joe Nobody, who don't follow tech wars and such, no what DVD is, they probably know what HD is, so they know what HD-DVD is. They'd know what they're getting. A lot of these people may not even know what a Blu-Ray is. The DVD name is a big strength for HD-DVD.

Add that to the list of things in favor of HD-DVD, and the format war is not as cut and dry as Sony would like to have you think.

Since when?

I work next door to GameCrazy and the core is $399, and the Premium is $499.

Originally posted by BackFire
Also, I think that HD-DVD has a name advantage that a lot of people don't realize. Joe Nobody, who don't follow tech wars and such, no what DVD is, they probably know what HD is, so they know what HD-DVD is. They'd know what they're getting. A lot of these people may not even know what a Blu-Ray is. The DVD name is a big strength for HD-DVD.
I've been thinking the same thing for a while. Which would win? HD-DVD. Why? It sounds better.

Originally posted by C-Dic
Since when?

I work next door to GameCrazy and the core is $399, and the Premium is $499.

Then they're ripping people off. Unless you live in Canada?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=999947300050001&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat66900050001&id=pcmprd47500050001

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=999947300050000&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat66900050001&id=pcmprd47500050000

Suggested retail price is 399 for premium, 299 for core.

In-store prices tend to be higher than online prices.

Every store I've been in it is also selling for 399 premium, 299 core. That's the going price.

Originally posted by BackFire
Every store I've been in it is also selling for 399 premium, 299 core. That's the going price.

Same here in Texas, too.

Originally posted by C-Dic




Anycrap, the PS3 vs 360 debate with HD shouldn't even be one. The PS3 with BR player is $600. The 360's are getting a price drop to $299(base) and $399(premium) before the PS3 launch, and the HD-DVD drive will be anywhere from $100-$200 dollars, making it cheaper than the PS3 as it stands.
.

then you dont know what you talkin about. because bluray has much more PC data storage than a hd dvd. Ps3 is a bargain at $600. plus is a more powerful machine than the 360. hddvd is nothing but overrated. that is why studieos are not suporting them. just remenber this a year from now when everythin comes in bluray.

Since when are studios not supporting HD-DVD? New Line, Paramount, Universal, Warner Bros, Weinstein and Magnolia all back HD-DVD. You don't know what you're talking about.

At any rate, we don't even have HDTV's here so it's all a non-issue for me...

Originally posted by BackFire
Every store I've been in it is also selling for 399 premium, 299 core. That's the going price.

Well, expect it to drop between $50 and $100 each level by PS3 launch.

Preysin, note that studios are promoting only Blu-Ray ONLY if they have been marked as Blu-Ray exclusive. The fast majority of studios are doing the economically smart thing and giving support for both, so they can see which does better on the consumer front and then choose which one to actually support from there.

Originally posted by preysin
then you dont know what you talkin about. because bluray has much more PC data storage than a hd dvd. Ps3 is a bargain at $600. plus is a more powerful machine than the 360. hddvd is nothing but overrated. that is why studieos are not suporting them. just remenber this a year from now when everythin comes in bluray.

I know exactly what I am talking about. Extra storage means JACK SHIT for DVD movies. Blu-ray is only using 25 GB discs, and HD-DVD 30 GB discs for content. Not only has HD-DVD been able to squeeze an VC-1 codec, DD 5.1 TruHD and DTS-HD soundtracks, and extra features, Blu-ray is using a MPEG-4 processor, providing poor PQ , no extras, and can't even capitalize on their 1080p abilities because the 1st gen SAMSUNG players all have BUGS that make the picture look like shit, and they can't send out an update for another 2 months. What's the point in debuting a 50 GB disc when you have nothing to put on it?

PS3 a BARGAIN?? How so, when the 360, even with the HD add on will be $100 LESS? They're have already been NUMEROUS issues with the PS3 as it is, as I've already mentioned. It's costing Sony too much to make them as it is, thus having to charge consumers more, which is not a great strategy, IMO.

As far as studio suport goes, Warner Brothers just cancelled their slate of new titles indefinately, which suggests they may go with both formats, or soley with HD. Not only that, but as of today, there are 34 movies available on HD-DVD, as opposed to BR's 14.

In the end, nobodies going to pay $1,000 for a piece of shit DVD player that has bugs, can't replicate or surpass the quality of HD-DVD, provide decent titles, or be AFFORDABLE.

On the off chance that there will be a "hybrid" player, which won't happen, even if there are TALKS of it happening, Blu-ray may as well call it a day, and dump their shit in the Atlantic along with the unsold UMD's, MiniDiscs, and mp3 Walkmans.

I totally forgot to even address this "fact";



The HD-A1 is $500. The PS3 is $600. You do the math.

Originally posted by C-Dic
Well, expect it to drop between $50 and $100 each level by PS3 launch.

Possibly, Microsoft has denied that there will be a price drop this year, though. Like I said, all baseless rumors at this point.

Really, the system is already 200 less than a PS3, a pricedrop wouldn't even be necessary.

Why buy a PS3 for $600, when I can buy a 360 AND a Wii for the same price? Plus 360 supports HD-DVD. Best of both worlds, if you ask me.

Originally posted by BackFire


Really, the system is already 200 less than a PS3, a pricedrop wouldn't even be necessary.

IIRC, only the $400 units can use the HD addon, so in that case, they're the same price, so something's got to give.

Since I have a 360 its obvious which side im on.



When Superman comes out, ill pick up the add on, if its available by then.

Originally posted by C-Dic
IIRC, only the $400 units can use the HD addon, so in that case, they're the same price, so something's got to give.

The default premium package is still cheaper than the PS3 premium. Something doesn't really have to give, seeing as the HD addon is just that, an optional addon, not at all required and totally a bonus, while the Blu-Ray for the PS3 is required and thus increases the price.

Originally posted by preysin
look how many corps are backin the bluray format

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluray#Corporate_support

with spiderman 3 comin to bluray first it will smash the hddvd sales plus starwars will come to bluray because of twentycenture fox.

better get a PS3 early becuase is goin to be cheaper and better than hd dvd.

I don't see any proof of anything there.

Here is an article comparing both HD DVD and BluRay:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060801-7399.html

In the high definition horse race, it's HD DVD by a nose
8/1/2006 1:14:22 PM, by Nate Anderson

Blu-Ray and HD DVD have been locked in battle for supremacy in the next-generation optical disc wars, but it has so far been difficult to compare the merits of both technologies in head-to-head tests. Both had rocky product launches, and when the first players were finally released, each had problems. Toshiba's HD DVD was crippled by long load times (now improved), while the Samsung Blu-Ray player was also no speed demon, and had some scaling issues to boot.

Until the same disc was released in both formats, though, accurate comparisons weren't possible. Now that Warner has released three titles on both formats, comparisons have begun in earnest. High-Def Digest was one of the first sites to take an in-depth look at Training Day, Rumor Has It..., and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. Their conclusion? The nod goes to HD DVD.

An unusual issue appeared right away. Training Day had cropping problems, with the Blu-ray version of the movie showing an estimated three to four percent less detail at the edges of the picture. The problem also "cropped up" in the other two films. With only one Blu-ray player available, it is impossible to say whether the problem is caused by the transfer process or by the player itself.

But Blu-ray's problems didn't end there. Occasional compression artifacts and brightness issues also led the site to crown HD DVD the winner. "In our first head-to-head comparison, we found the HD DVD to be superior," wrote Peter Bracke. "The unfortunate cropping of the Blu-ray image, coupled with more noticeable compression artifacts and an overall darker cast, can't compete with the more consistently pleasing presentation of the HD DVD."

Both formats are capable of exceptional picture quality; the differences mentioned appear to be minor and might not even be noticed by the average consumer. Still, early adopters who purchase expensive hardware are unlikely to be "average consumers" and may well care about such nuances.

-----------------------------------------------

On a related article (comparing HD DVD to Blu-ray)

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/kisskissbangbang.html#Supplements

This got me thinking, do you think it's possible that the war will be neverending? Perhaps the movie industry took a cue from the video game industry?

Three major video game consols. Take your pick for which selection you want to choose from.

Two major DVD types. Take your pick for which selection you want to choose from?

Ya know..



Toshiba launched just fine, and whatever bugs have been straightened out with 4 firmware upgrades available. The load times have NOT been fixed, really, even with 1.4 Firmware.

The BR player is still riddled with problems, the likes of which won't even be fixed until September, when HD-DVD has throughly kicked its ass.

To be fair...all the new products have bumps on the road. Every product has to have a competitor. So yes, these console and formats will be at war. Competition for them is good for us.

I hope non of the formats win becouse i just started my dvd collection and am happy . I dont want HD dvd or blu ray becouse i cant afford it !!!!!

I still say that its far too early to be comparing apples to oranges here. Both formats are bound to have flaws, but with the public JUST NOW settling comfortably into a DVD dominant movie industry, we have little to no concrete evidence. I say, wait a little while, THEN make your critiques and comments. Personally, I'm anxious to see what happens with the DVD Wars.

Long live DVD thats what i saw . Are you guys gonna start your collection all over again ?

Originally posted by coolmovies
Long live DVD thats what i saw . Are you guys gonna start your collection all over again ?

It's too soon, for me anyways, to decide which format I'm going to commit to. But, yes, most likely I will.

Do you work in a bank ??

Originally posted by coolmovies
I hope non of the formats win becouse i just started my dvd collection and am happy . I dont want HD dvd or blu ray becouse i cant afford it !!!!!

HD-DVD and BluRay DVD players can play regular DVD's.

ya i know i havent got a dvd recorder yet let alone HD DVD player

I still have loads of VHS which is imbarrasing

You heard it here first folks. A Microsoft Senior Manager pledges to keep costs low for consumers:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18809

That's the way it should be. What's even cooler is that I read there may be a rebuilt 360 down the road WITH the HD-DVD drive in it, still comparably priced.

W T F ?

Both formats will fail.......... blue ray will find a home in gaming, due to it's increased capacity over dvd. HD-DVD will be out there for the tech junkies (like C-dic) who are all into hi def........neither will ever come close to doing the same business as plain ol' dvd, much less surpass it. There is not upside to warrant a change in format for the public in large. Better picture quality........that's it, which most people don't care about. The disc is the same size.......no advantage. The disc is still fallable to the same scratching......no advantage.

HD-DVD is the new Laser Disc.....DVD is the new VHS. The laser-disc was around for 10 years for the tech junkies, didn't catch on as it offered no great advantage over VHS to warrant a massive public format change. Both fell to the wayside within 10 years of the introduction of dvd. HD-DVD will hang around as Laser Disc did for the tech junkie minority..........until the day when a new format comes along that will eradicate both HD-DVD and DVD........like miniature digital cartridges (think PS2 memory card size). It will offer a clear advantage over both formats in size and durability......while holding the same if not more data as HD-DVD to also give the superior quality that most of the public doesn't care about anyway.

Blue Ray will still be there on your PS3.........you'll be playing Devil May Cry 9 on it.

i agree ED. id rather stick to normal dvds cheers. they aint ripping me off. bastards

Average consumers are buying brand new HD TV. When they see HD they'll pretty much figure it out. HD DVD with HD TV...I'm so getting ONE! Not saying Blu-ray will flop but it just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
Both formats will fail.......... blue ray will find a home in gaming, due to it's increased capacity over dvd. HD-DVD will be out there for the tech junkies (like C-dic) who are all into hi def........neither will ever come close to doing the same business as plain ol' dvd, much less surpass it. There is not upside to warrant a change in format for the public in large. Better picture quality........that's it, which most people don't care about. The disc is the same size.......no advantage. The disc is still fallable to the same scratching......no advantage.

HD-DVD is the new Laser Disc.....DVD is the new VHS. The laser-disc was around for 10 years for the tech junkies, didn't catch on as it offered no great advantage over VHS to warrant a massive public format change. Both fell to the wayside within 10 years of the introduction of dvd. HD-DVD will hang around as Laser Disc did for the tech junkie minority..........until the day when a new format comes along that will eradicate both HD-DVD and DVD........like miniature digital cartridges (think PS2 memory card size). It will offer a clear advantage over both formats in size and durability......while holding the same if not more data as HD-DVD to also give the superior quality that most of the public doesn't care about anyway.

Blue Ray will still be there on your PS3.........you'll be playing Devil May Cry 9 on it.

Well, I've erased my reply 3 times becayse I'm teetering between pissed off and shaking my head at the level of ignorance displayed.

Real quick.

They won't fail, as HD-DVD is already a success, having pushed 200,000 units in the US in less than 2 months, with more being produced and enjoyed as we speak. It's always going to be a small niche, so don't expect it to surpass a 10 year old format right off the bat. SD-DVD is garbage in comparison when you look at the numbers. HD has 3 times the capacity, meaning better picture and sound quality for starters, a nice touch for HT enthusiasts, which are the target market here, anyway. Also, Sony's Blu-ray discs have a licnesed protective coating to prevent scratching and scuffing, so the last point was incorrect.

Laserdisc lasted 15 years, BTW. It never caught on entirely because it was an inconvenience for most, despite the numerous advantages. HD-DVD won't be around for 15 years, just because we'll all either be dead, or the technology would have been surpassed a long time before. It's the way it goes. Scaring people out of buying into HD , or FUD-ding (fear/uncertainty/doubt) with things that are all too obvious is wrong and unfair, as are the comparisons between formats.

There's a market for HD. It's being bought, somebody's going to win, and nobodies going to regret it, because at the end of the day, should they all go belly up, you've got the market's best upconverting DVD player and your favorite movies on an unbeatable format.

somebody is going to win........it's going to be DVD, HD-DVD and Blue Ray both lose. Fullfilling a small niche (tech junkies for HD-DVD and Blue Ray for Gaming) does not make a format a success.

type as many paragraphs as you wish, john q. public still doesn't care about HD quality. You're in the vast minority c-dic. To us, it's just a disc......like the shelf full of discs we already have. Until a format comes along that can offer us something more that just a disc, like the discs we already have..........dvd is going nowhere. It doesn't seem as though I'm the only one displaying ignorance.......yours seems to be chosen.

It's just pointless to call a race before it's over, man. If anyone's going to lose, it will be Blu-ray, because of the numerous flaws in the technology, the production cost, and the fatal errors it has already experienced in the faulty chips, the CODECS, the shortage of blue diodes, the cell yields, etc. HD-DVD, aside from a slow boot up time, has been smoother than a baby's ass so far.

People are buying HDTV's. It's not as small a market as everyone may think, considering HD broadcasting will be the norm in less than 3 years time. People have no CHOICE but to upgrade, otherwise, they simply won't be able to watch TV without severe complications with the picture. So severe, standard television will be unbearable to watch. This whole "Blu-ray for gaming" deal? What sense does that make? Blu-ray's only association with the gaming industry is that it's being included in the higher end PS3. Other than that, there's no connection, and there won't be any such thing as a BR game, as there are no HD games, only consoles that feature games that are encoded in 1080i rez (i.e. 360).

..and as I have said before, HD-DVD isn't gearing towards J6P. It's for enthusiasts, and those who want the next big thing. That said, it's caught on just fine to their target audience, is already a success, so calling something a "failure" when it's obviously making money is just unfair.




How can you have such a strong opinion of something that you don't seem to know anything about? Honestly. I've never known you to be so out of the loop when it comes to..well..anything. HD-DVD blows standard discs out of the water. Do regular DVD's have a 1080p resolution? No, they have 420p. Do they have TruHD 5.1/7.1? No, they've got DD 5.1. Do they have a running video commentary with the movie? No, they have an audio commentary. Do they have 30GB of disc space? No, they have 5GB. I mean, what DOESN'T it have that Standard DVD has?

I realize not everyone's going to jump on the HD bandwagon, and they're not expected to either, given the price differences. But, again, eventually, people are going to see and appreciate the differences, and eventually, have no choice but to upgrade their TV sets if they want to watch television properly. HDTV's are affordable now more than ever before.

I don't think I'm being ignorant at all. I'm looking at it from all sides, not calling HD/BR a failure when it's an entirely new technology. You just seem to be jumping to conclusions, making it look like I've already called SD-DVD obsolete, when I haven't, and just reiterating what I've already said, with a negative spin. I acknowleged it's not for everyone, and I also backed up the claim that it's a somewhat small market. I read aboute the going's-on of the format every single day, I'm on every single development. You tossed out some falsified information, and presented some strong opinions that seemed a little more biased than educated/enlightened, and I just followed up.

BTW, don't take any of that too personal. It's just kind of hard trying to find any justification in a lot of what you've said lately. I'm just trying to put out what I know, mix it with how I view the whole format, and get across the advantages, as well as the fact that I know that early adopters are in the minority.

It's not a failure, though. That I can prove.

I'm gonna be a little nit-picky here.
Originally posted by C-Dic
People are buying HDTV's. It's not as small a market as everyone may think, considering HD broadcasting will be the norm in less than 3 years time. People have no CHOICE but to upgrade, otherwise, they simply won't be able to watch TV without severe complications with the picture. So severe, standard television will be unbearable to watch.
When television converts entirely to HD technology, people with satellite won't have to worry about upgrading their TVs. And if I remember correctly, there will be converters for those without satellite.

Originally posted by C-Dic
Do they have a running video commentary with the movie? No, they have an audio commentary.
What do you mean video commentary? The Men in Black DVD (the original one at least, I'm not sure about the SE) had a commentary with Tommy Lee Jones and Barry Sonnenfeld where it looked like a MST3k episode. Only they were doing sketches and such on the screen, circling what they are pointing out for example.

The UHF commentary is actually partly video. In one scene towards the end, Weird Al stands up and shouts at someone. It came to me as a shock that he just popped out of the corner.

Really, I think you're both right. ED is right in that HD technology won't surpass standard DVD anytime in the forseeable future, and that right now it is such a small niche who have or care about them, that if comparing the formats to DVD, they are and probably will be a failure.

However, when looking at the big picture, and taking into consideration that HDTV's are becomming more and more affordable and necessary, eventually HDDVD's will become the norm.

But, both Bluray and HD-DVD have an inherent disadvantage of having a direct competition with eachother. The fact that there are two formats severely hurts the HD entertainment industry, seeing as movies are being split among the formats. Plus, it looks as both will be around for a while, at least as long as PS3 and 360 are the main home video consoles.

One thing is for sure, it will be an interesting battle, it's just many people, myself include are worried that they'd pick the losing format, and as a result, simply aren't buying either, and have no plan on buying either as long as there are two options. As Steven Colbert said on his show "You know which format will lose the war? Whichever one you buy".

HD dvd just seems like a waste of money to me at the moment. i love movies and the dvd provides me with the means to watch them. i have a big tv and speakers around the room. i know no one around my area is gonna upgrade to HD.

Here's where I'm coming from C-dic......

Yes, HD-DVD has a huge technical advantage over DVD as it offers much better quality. The public still does not care. We don't need HD......there isn't a demand for it. It is a tech junkie niche, just as laser disc was. Other than quality, to 90% of the country, it's just a dvd with better quality that we don't care about......we're fine with our regular dvds. The picture is good....it's what we're accustomed to......and there's still plenty of room for bonus features.

you know your HD-DVD......HD-TV.....Surround sound set-up you've got in your living room? You are in the VAST minority. Most of us don't care. We sit on our couch and put a movie in and watch it. That simple. You don't seem to realize this.

Your comparison of HD-DVD to HD-TV is completely unwarranted. Yes, we will upgrade......not because we have this great desire, because we'll have to. A person is hard pressed to walk into Best Buy and find a tv that isn't HD or HD compatible. We have no choice, we buy a new tv and it just so happens it's HD.......even though we just want to buy a tv. HD doesn't figure into the equation. Televison will be broadcast in HD......again, there isn't a huge calling for it.......it's just something they're doing to appeal to everybody, giving the tech junkies what they want and the other 90% HD even if they don't want it......it's not like we're going to complain about the better quality.

This in no way affects what format somebody chooses to buy. We don't choose HD-TVs.....the manufacturers do. We don't choose HD programming.......the networks/cable companies do. We do actually have a choice when it comes to which disc we throw in our shopping cart......and to most of us, one is just as good as the other because we don't care about the better quality........just as those millions buying VHS didn't care about laser-discs far superior quality. The only way HD-DVD will ever trump dvd is if regular dvd stops being produced.......which I don't believe will ever happen as I don't believe HD-DVDs market share will ever even come close to 50% so no studio is going to stop producing films on the dvd format, losing all those sales for any given title. As stated earlier, HD-DVD will have it's techie niche until a new format comes along and erases both HD-DVD and DVD at the same time as it will have the same quality as HD-DVD (for the techies) aswell as practical upgrades for the common man, like being smaller and more durable.

As for Blue-Ray......it is the way for the future of gaming. The PS4 will have them standard in all models.......the PS3 will have an add-on for the lower end PS3 models that come factory direct without them. The sole reason is their storage capacity. It's the same reason DVDs were used for PS2 and Xbox as opposed to CDs. You can fit more data on the disc. Saying Blue Ray won't be used for gaming is akin to saying, "sony will never use DVDs in the PS2.....they'll stick with cds". It's the exact same reason they changed formats before. More starage capacity = more data per disc. More data per disc = larger games and/or better graphics.

It will however go nowhere with the film industry as it's a moot format with dvd and hd-dvd already out there. It offers no advantage over either.......actually less over hd-dvd.

Originally posted by Evil Dead
The only way HD-DVD will ever trump dvd is if regular dvd stops being produced.......which I don't believe will ever happen as I don't believe HD-DVDs market share will ever even come close to 50% so no studio is going to stop producing films on the dvd format, losing all those sales for any given title.
As of now, HD-DVD is only available for select titles, the titles they deem are worth the extra quality. I believe it'll stay that way. We have seen no TV shows on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray and is there a marketplace to put A Night at the Roxbury on HD-DVD? I doubt it.

Originally posted by Wolfie


When television converts entirely to HD technology, people with satellite won't have to worry about upgrading their TVs. And if I remember correctly, there will be converters for those without satellite.

What do you mean video commentary?

Analog broadcasting will be done away with in 2009. That means, anyone with NTSC televisions, regardless of the signal you receive, are SOL. HD over satellite will still be inferior to digital cable, namely because of the broadcast medium, and the selection. As of right now, via DirecTV, there are 4 HD channels. I'm sure it will improve, but digital is always going to win out.

The running video commentary called "IME", short for "In Movie Experience", is a PIP window exclusive to HD-DVD that features a running video commentary. Scene specific, and blow by blow, as if they filmed the director/actor as they made the commentary, and it runs will the movie is playing.

Originally posted by BackFire
Really, I think you're both right. ED is right in that HD technology won't surpass standard DVD anytime in the forseeable future, and that right now it is such a small niche who have or care about them, that if comparing the formats to DVD, they are and probably will be a failure.

However, when looking at the big picture, and taking into consideration that HDTV's are becomming more and more affordable and necessary, eventually HDDVD's will become the norm.

But, both Bluray and HD-DVD have an inherent disadvantage of having a direct competition with eachother. The fact that there are two formats severely hurts the HD entertainment industry, seeing as movies are being split among the formats. Plus, it looks as both will be around for a while, at least as long as PS3 and 360 are the main home video consoles.

One thing is for sure, it will be an interesting battle, it's just many people, myself include are worried that they'd pick the losing format, and as a result, simply aren't buying either, and have no plan on buying either as long as there are two options. As Steven Colbert said on his show "You know which format will lose the war? Whichever one you buy".

HD-DVD has already bowled over standard DVD tenfold, again, not that you can compare them in terms of marketability, because as you guys say, they're for people who "care", whereas I say they're geared towards certain people to begin with. Mercedes Benz doesn't churn out cars for everyone, and not everyone buys them. That doesn't make them a failure compared to other cars. It's a perk for people who can afford and appreciate what it has to offer. It's not a failure, the numbers already speak for themselves.

The format war is on paper, anyway, and HT enthusiasts know it to be true. Sony's dropped the ball countless times, where Toshiba's been pummelign the competition. This so called "studio support" that Sony has seems to be dwindling after Disney cancelled two MAJOR releases in "Cars" and "POTC" on BR, more than likely suggesting they'll either go with HD-DVD or both, just at a later time.

Personally, like I said, I've got nothing to lose. Neither does anyone else that invests $500 measely bucks into a DVD player. You get the best possible versions of your favorite movies, and the only player on the market capable of full picture resolution. If that format died today, I don't think any of hte early adopters would shed a tear.

Originally posted by Evil Dead

Yes, HD-DVD has a huge technical advantage over DVD as it offers much better quality. The public still does not care. We don't need HD......there isn't a demand for it. It is a tech junkie niche, just as laser disc was. Other than quality, to 90% of the country, it's just a dvd with better quality that we don't care about......we're fine with our regular dvds. The picture is good....it's what we're accustomed to......and there's still plenty of room for bonus features.

you know your HD-DVD......HD-TV.....Surround sound set-up you've got in your living room? You are in the VAST minority. Most of us don't care. We sit on our couch and put a movie in and watch it. That simple. You don't seem to realize this.

Yes, we will upgrade......not because we have this great desire, because we'll have to. A person is hard pressed to walk into Best Buy and find a tv that isn't HD or HD compatible. We have no choice, we buy a new tv and it just so happens it's HD.......even though we just want to buy a tv. HD doesn't figure into the equation. Televison will be broadcast in HD......again, there isn't a huge calling for it.......it's just something they're doing to appeal to everybody, giving the tech junkies what they want and the other 90% HD even if they don't want it......it's not like we're going to complain about the better quality.

This in no way affects what format somebody chooses to buy. We don't choose HD-TVs.....the manufacturers do. We don't choose HD programming.......the networks/cable companies do. We do actually have a choice when it comes to which disc we throw in our shopping cart......and to most of us, one is just as good as the other because we don't care about the better quality........just as those millions buying VHS didn't care about laser-discs far superior quality. The only way HD-DVD will ever trump dvd is if regular dvd stops being produced.......which I don't believe will ever happen as I don't believe HD-DVDs market share will ever even come close to 50% so no studio is going to stop producing films on the dvd format, losing all those sales for any given title. As stated earlier, HD-DVD will have it's techie niche until a new format comes along and erases both HD-DVD and DVD at the same time as it will have the same quality as HD-DVD (for the techies) aswell as practical upgrades for the common man, like being smaller and more durable.

As for Blue-Ray......it is the way for the future of gaming. The PS4 will have them standard in all models.......the PS3 will have an add-on for the lower end PS3 models that come factory direct without them. The sole reason is their storage capacity. It's the same reason DVDs were used for PS2 and Xbox as opposed to CDs. You can fit more data on the disc. Saying Blue Ray won't be used for gaming is akin to saying, "sony will never use DVDs in the PS2.....they'll stick with cds". It's the exact same reason they changed formats before. More starage capacity = more data per disc. More data per disc = larger games and/or better graphics.

It will however go nowhere with the film industry as it's a moot format with dvd and hd-dvd already out there. It offers no advantage over either.......actually less over hd-dvd.

I can say this until I am blue in the face. HD is NOT for the public. Technology isn't developed ONLY when there's a demand for it! If that were the case, we'd still all be peddling bicycles because it gets you from Point A to Point B, and that's all that matters. All the "we we we" talk, you're speaking for the general public for whom this medium isn't even intended. I know I'm in the minority, never claimed otherwise, but if the "minority" didn't fuel the market, then there would never be advancements, nor the need for them. So, when other people eventually latch on, they've got early adopters to thank. That's why so many technological advancements get cheaper spin-offs, i.e. DVD in general. Like iLo brand DVD players for $25, Westinghouse LCD HDTV's for $700. I never..ever..said that standard DVD's were going to be extinct. They're inferior, yeah, but that market will never go away.

Blu-ray will only be included in the $600 PS3's, IIRC. They're producing an HDD (hard drive) for the lower end models, like the premium 360. 360 will have an HD-DVD add on, making it about $50 less than the premium PS3 when it's all said and done. The PS4 won't even have a disc drive, so I've read, so the BR processor will be self-contained, which means that it's going to be all digital distribution, suggesting the end of the physical drive format and discs as we know it in both gaming and multi-media. However, that's atleast another decade away.

Blu-ray discs hold 25 gigs right now, and even at that compression rate, their movies offer no extras and horrible picture quality. How's that for a promising future in gaming, much less entertainment period? They've tested 50 gig discs, and have yet to produce positive results. Sony has a shitload of work to do, because right now, after having to cancel 1/4th of the slated PS3 games, the cell issues, the blue diode shortages, the premature BD launch, the horrible launch titles, the cancellation of both BD movies, PS3 games, the exploding laptop batteries....nobodies going to want to spend $1,000/$600 on their product.

^ Great post Cinema...hats off to you my good man.

On a related note:

We maybe looking at a price tag of $200 for an HD DVD Drive for your 360.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18958



In a way this is a good option. Unlike the PS3 you don't get an option of Blu-ray....you get it and pay $599.99

Originally posted by Wolfie
As of now, HD-DVD is only available for select titles, the titles they deem are worth the extra quality. I believe it'll stay that way. We have seen no TV shows on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray and is there a marketplace to put A Night at the Roxbury on HD-DVD? I doubt it.

"The Sopranos" Season 6 will be debuting, day and date, on HD-DVD from HBO, making it the 1st TV show on the format. They haven't been as picky as to the movies they've selected, either. "Rumour Has It", "The Lake House", "Caddyshack", "Blazing Saddles" and a few other titles are all on HD-DVD. It's not all slam-bang action flicks and Sci-Fi adventures, ya know.

Correction to above posts, both versions of the PS3 will ship with a bluray drive, unless somethings drastically changed since their original price announcement that I'm not aware of.

For the UK there won't be a blu-ray drive for the basic. Only in the US and Japan and other countries.

Really? Where did you hear that?

My mistake...the link in which I read that info has been updated recently. It will be available for the basic in all countries.

Originally posted by BackFire
Correction to above posts, both versions of the PS3 will ship with a bluray drive, unless somethings drastically changed since their original price announcement that I'm not aware of.

I should clarify. They'll both have Blu-ray drives, but the standard PS3 will not have an HDMI port. HDMI is pretty much essential if you plan on watching movies on your PS3. Otherwise, you're stuck with component cables and a picture that's about as good as an upconverted SD-DVD picture for movies and games, when they're mastered in 1080p, but displaying at 720p.

Oh, yeah that's true.

A very illuminating and interesting article on Blu-ray and PS3. Which connects cost for the average consumer and prices. Must read:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/15/will_blu-ray_sink_the_ps3/

Here is a review for a Samsung Blu-ray player:

http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=6040

I read that article a couple of weeks ago. It's funny, because it got torn to shreds at the AVS Forum, because it's so incredibly inaccurate, that not even Blu-ray owners are defending it. It looked to have been a very amateur review.

I heard that Sony will eventually stop making DVDs and simply make the Blu Ray disc so I assume that we the customer are pretty much going to have to chose one format now HD or Blu Ray.

I have so many Dvds its not funny I am going to have to buy everything again....ok I WONT but I will buy some of my favroite films again. I will prolly side with the Blu Ray Disc over the HD.

Originally posted by Wolfie
This got me thinking, do you think it's possible that the war will be neverending? Perhaps the movie industry took a cue from the video game industry?

Three major video game consols. Take your pick for which selection you want to choose from.

Two major DVD types. Take your pick for which selection you want to choose from?

Unlikely- many remember VHS and Betamax.

Watching movies is not quite like games consoles. For example, one of the main drives behind the seperation of console formats is that the makers of the consoles also have a direct stake in the making of the games- admittedly, Sony less so, which is why there was some talk of single-format gaming being possible with the release of the Playstation and PS2, though not now with the bad press that the PS3 is getting.

Whereas loads of companies make movie players who have absolutely nothing to do with the production of movies.

Combine that with the less specialist approach the movie market has compared to the video games market, and there is a very natural inclination for a single format in movies.

However, returning to the single games format again- it is still kinda heading that way. PC, PS2 and X-Box all ran off similar formats, different only by on-disc coding, and only this new development is preventing the same from happening again.

The only really odd one out is Nintendo, and the single thing that justifies their completely different format is their particular approach to gaming, which is unique in many ways.

Can't really do that with a movie player.

All i know is that the clarity improvement is amazing. I was watching a display at BestBuy and they had 2 Sony HDTV's setup, same size, everything. And then they had 50 First Dates on a DVD player and then the Blu-ray version of the movie playing side-by-side. It was amazing. Really makes me wish i had the money for an HDTV.

Just because something has more backing that hardly makes it a superior format. Most technophiles and reviewers said that HD-DVD looks much better than BluRay. BluRay will probably win the format war because each PS3 is going to have BluRay capability. That automatically gives them an advantage. I stll think that HD is the superior format.

This gives a huge slap on the PS3 and Blu-ray:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=19392

These guys are really slow to get this news, lol. The blue diode shortage has been an issue for about 2 months now. Not only that, but they haven't even started manufacturing the PS3 in Japan yet.

Originally posted by krazie835
I heard that Sony will eventually stop making DVDs and simply make the Blu Ray..

Not for a long, long time, if ever.

I hope none of the format's win i love dvds they are very cheap

I bought my first HDTV last March - a Samsung 30" CRT slimtube ( I still don't trust Plasma or LCD), then two months later got the Samsung HDMI upgrading player. I am set for a long time, and will wait for this idiotic war to end. The prices for those players - $1,100?? It's like the early days of Laserdisc players - one of which I bought at a big discount.

Aha! I would like the pro-Blu-rayPS3 apologiest to explain this!



Yet again! The claims of the so-called "technology" that has fuel Sony to claim they possess can't even provided 1080p games....which leaves to ponder...what about the movies?

This is the least of their worries. They've had to delay the PS3 launch in Europe until MARCH OF 2007. When they plan to launch in November, there's only going to be 100,000 for Japan and 200,000 for the US. Reports have come in saying that they'll release in Japan, wait and see how it sells there, then DELAY THE US LAUNCH!

Tsk tsk, Sony.

Originally posted by C-Dic
This is the least of their worries. They've had to delay the PS3 launch in Europe until MARCH OF 2007. When they plan to launch in November, there's only going to be 100,000 for Japan and 200,000 for the US. Reports have come in saying that they'll release in Japan, wait and see how it sells there, then DELAY THE US LAUNCH!

Tsk tsk, Sony.

I had just had an email that said that..

Apart from it said that the release dates for Japan and America would be unaffected.. and would be released sometime in November.

Originally posted by C-Dic
This is the least of their worries. They've had to delay the PS3 launch in Europe until MARCH OF 2007. When they plan to launch in November, there's only going to be 100,000 for Japan and 200,000 for the US. Reports have come in saying that they'll release in Japan, wait and see how it sells there, then DELAY THE US LAUNCH!

Tsk tsk, Sony.

Yeah, it's been all over the video game news. So much for a cheap Blu-ray player for christmas.

MARCH OF 2007 !!! that sucks ps3 should be out this chistmas

Another slap on the face for Blu-ray:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4195

Its all about money nothing else and am not upgrading !!

The Ps3 just flat out fails.

Where would all this lead! Oh Boy

anyone got a hd tv ?? whats the pic like ??

It took ten years for dvds to come down in price