Is Heaven Hard To Get Into?
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ChakraStrings
If you think about it, it is. Most people in modern society have killed, stolen, or broke the Ten Commandmants somehow. Does everyone go to church? No. Personnally, I think that getting into Heaven is a very hard thing to accomplish. What're your thoughts?
Alliance
I shaved this morining. Therefore...I'm going to Judeo-Christian hell.
Regret
Depends, what qualifies an existence as being heaven?
Shakyamunison
Heaven is a state of mind.
Regret
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Heaven is a state of mind.
And what state of mind qualifies as heaven?
Alliance
It just does
...
ChakraStrings
That makes sense...
Baka...
debbiejo
No.............we all back ti where we came back to where we came from
Regret
In other words it is very easy to get to Debbiejo's heaven
debbiejo
In the concept of heaven as the bible teaches....................there is not such a place................not in the bible terms.........
Regret
Originally posted by debbiejo
In the concept of heaven as the bible teaches....................there is not such a place................not in the bible terms.........
lol, the question was as to ease of entrance to heaven according to your belief, not as to whether it exists or not.
Edit: although if you believe it does not exist then it would stand to reason that it would be difficult to get into it.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Regret
And what state of mind qualifies as heaven?
http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/faqs/tenworlds.htm
JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/faqs/tenworlds.htm
Is this link the definition of spam? Seriously, what is spam?
Regret
Matt. 19: 24
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
It must be difficult for some if Christ made this statement.
Regret
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Is this link the definition of spam? Seriously, what is spam?
When you were reported for it you were posting and reposting series of them. A link is not spam.
JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Regret
Matt. 19: 24
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
It must be difficult for some if Christ made this statement.
The reason that it is difficult (and the only reason that it may be) is because it takes faith (trust). Some rich folk trust only in their riches. They are so accustomed to getting their needs met through self-effort and energy. Many rich folk have such a difficult time trusting in anything other than their wealth.
This is what Jesus meant by,..."It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." It is because of the issue of trust.
Who are you going to trust, Jesus or in your own effort. If your answer is not Jesus then yes, it is difficult for a rich man and you included (whoever you may be, rich or poor) to enter into the Kingdom of God.
But it doesn't have to be this way.
Regret
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The reason that it is difficult (and the only reason that it may be) is because it takes faith (trust). Some rich folk trust only in their riches. They are so accustomed to getting their needs met through self-effort and energy. Many rich folk have such a difficult time trusting in anything other than their wealth.
This is what Jesus meant by,..."It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." It is because of the issue of trust.
Who are you going to trust, Jesus or in your own effort. If your answer is not Jesus then yes, it is difficult for a rich man and you included (whoever you may be, rich or poor) to enter into the Kingdom of God.
But it doesn't have to be this way .
But for some it is difficult all the same, doesn't have to be, but is.
JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Regret
But for some it is difficult all the same, doesn't have to be, but is.
True.
Alliance
It has to be there first...and not be a made up contry club.
Regret
So, in other words you think it is impossible to get there since it doesn't exist.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Is this link the definition of spam? Seriously, what is spam?
Apparently when I give a lint, I don't annoy everyone.
Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Apparently when I give a lint, I don't annoy everyone.
Appearances can be deceiving.
Originally posted by Regret
So, in other words you think it is impossible to get there since it doesn't exist.
A more accurate way to state this is:
It has to exist, before you can get there.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
Appearances can be deceiving...
debbiejo
Originally posted by Regret
In other words it is very easy to get to Debbiejo's heaven
Yes,.............it is.............an even a scripture says that "the spirit returns to god that gave it"...........we go back to where we came from...
Why would a god create in order to distory????.........
Regret
Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes,.............it is.............an even a scripture says that "the spirit returns to god that gave it"...........we go back to where we came from...
Why would a god create in order to distory????.........
My opinion is that there is a greater purpose than this life. Given that, those that can be used for that purpose are in heaven, those that are not are in "hell" or in other words the place that people go to when they don't continue to be viable for any other purpose, they are limited in their capability and so are not used further by God. Hell is merely a state at which you have shown the inability to become more, not an area of punishment.
Draco69
We have to confess and repent for every sin we commit. We all committing dozens of sins per hour according the Bible both new and old...
We're all going to hell...and they were gonna bust out of hell because it's too damn full and become walking zombies.
BRAINS!!
Alliance
Originally posted by Regret
My opinion is that there is a greater purpose than this life. Given that, those that can be used for that purpose are in heaven, those that are not are in "hell" or in other words the place that people go to when they don't continue to be viable for any other purpose, they are limited in their capability and so are not used further by God. Hell is merely a state at which you have shown the inability to become more, not an area of punishment.
I don't consider it a higher purpose to be "used." Purpose comes from the inside of man. Maybe you want to be a fingerpuppet,. But wouldn't your faith be a lot more credible if your motivation was not divine?
and we can turn the table on hell too. Hesse did it with the Mark of Cain in Demian. That mark is not evil, it is the sign of enlightenment. Maybe Hell is ascendancy, you are at the point where you are beyond god's power. It is the point where you have shown the ultimate power, to stand up in the face of a god and throw him down.
Maybe Heavan/Hell is a trick system to weed out the dogmatic narrowminded f_cks. And god really enjoys spending hsi time with athiest intellectuals in hell.
ChakraStrings
Erm, you guys are turning this into a comptelely different conversation. All I asked was your opinions on: "Is it hard to get into Heaven?" And your giving me responses, that challenge this belief. I don't care what religion you are, whatever you consider your "Heaven", do you think it's hard to get into... perhaps I should've been more clear?
Alliance
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Erm, you guys are turning this into a comptelely different conversation. All I asked was your opinions on: "Is it hard to get into Heaven?" And your giving me responses, that challenge this belief. I don't care what religion you are, whatever you consider your "Heaven", do you think it's hard to get into... perhaps I should've been more clear?
Erm...unfortuantely for you...this is not the Christian forum. Everyone here, including Christians, have different opinions on what heaven is if it is anything at all.
This is a discussion forum, not a Q&A forum. Questions would be better placed in the off topic forum.
MyOwnMuse
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Erm, you guys are turning this into a comptelely different conversation. All I asked was your opinions on: "Is it hard to get into Heaven?" And your giving me responses, that challenge this belief. I don't care what religion you are, whatever you consider your "Heaven", do you think it's hard to get into... perhaps I should've been more clear?
It would have been wise to base your question off something more than the strict Christian view of heaven. However, I think we've moved past that point.
Some people don't even maintain the concept as a place, or as actually existing at all, which is what we're seeing here. And for those that do take the issue seriously, I seriously doubt they are going about thinking "Wow, I really want to get into heaven, but it's just so hard. There's no way I'll ever make it." Instead people justify and rationalize their thoughts and actions, so that they fit into their own model of acceptability.
So, in the end, the question you're asking is trivial.
However, I think you missed the point of the responses you generated. We are sharing ourselves here. This is a forum, and I believe the point is to discuss.
mahasattva
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
If you think about it, it is. Most people in modern society have killed, stolen, or broke the Ten Commandmants somehow. Does everyone go to church? No. Personnally, I think that getting into Heaven is a very hard thing to accomplish. What're your thoughts?
Actually it is not. You can touch heaven deep within your heart and when u open your eyes and see the world it is like--a "treasure too close to see."
silver_tears
It's pretty exclusive from what I hear ermm
debbiejo
Our Heaven or hell is here and now, though I do believe we go back to where we came from ....It's a learning experience...
ChakraStrings
That's a strange belief debbie, what makes you say that heaven and hell is right now? If that's true, then does that mean that we are indeed all ready in heaven and that getting into heaven is a useless process?
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
That's a strange belief debbie, what makes you say that heaven and hell is right now? If that's true, then does that mean that we are indeed all ready in heaven and that getting into heaven is a useless process?
That is not a strange belief! It is a Buddhist concept. Life is not useless, at least mine isn't. What is strange to me is waisting your life waiting for something that will never come.
ChakraStrings
I don't think it's wasting you life at all. Heaven is Paradise. And what makes you say that it will never come? And how is it wasting you life when it is considered Paradise? Kind've narrow-minded if you ask me.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
I don't think it's wasting you life at all. Heaven is Paradise. And what makes you say that it will never come? And how is it wasting you life when it is considered Paradise? Kind've narrow-minded if you ask me.
Wasting this life is what I am talking about. You do not go to heaven when you die, you return here. To look outside of your self for something that is not there is a waist of time. This is heaven and hell and 8 other worlds all wrapped up in one; 3000 realms in every moment.
ChakraStrings
... Sorry, I just don't understand what you mean by' '3,000' other realms in every moment. To me, that fails to make sense in any way at all.
MyOwnMuse
Such an invigorating response!
Edit: That's better.
It doesn't make sense because it requires you to step outside of your own system of beliefs.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
...
When you read my post, I bet you felt anger. If you did you went into the world of anger. You might have then felt bad, because you may have entered the world of hell for just a brief time. We live in the ten worlds of witch heaven and hell are just two.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
... Sorry, I just don't understand what you mean by' '3,000' other realms in every moment. To me, that fails to make sense in any way at all.
You don't understand it because no one has ever taught it to you.
Alliance
Erm. Teaching does not imply understanding, or truth.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
Erm. Teaching does not imply understanding, or truth.
How do you know that?
Alliance
You can teach somone all you want. That doesnt mean that, even if they learn what you are teaching, they would be able to use that knowledge in any sort of functional way. it doesnt' mena they understood what you taught, or that what you taught is correct.
MyOwnMuse
Originally posted by Alliance
Erm. Teaching does not imply understanding, or truth.
But it can lead to understanding or 'truth".
Allegedly.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
You can teach somone all you want. That doesnt mean that, even if they learn what you are teaching, they would be able to use that knowledge in any sort of functional way. it doesnt' mena they understood what you taught, or that what you taught is correct.
What is your point?
Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You don't understand it because no one has ever taught it to you.
^^^ is an incorrect statement.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
^^^ is an incorrect statement.
In his case it is correct. He has never been taught the theory of 3000 realms in every moment. It is like talking to someone who has never heard of E=MC2, it would make no sense to them.
JacopeX
Originally posted by Alliance
I shaved this morining. Therefore...I'm going to Judeo-Christian hell. You have no religion but stay out of trouble.
Im a catholic and follow there catholic rules.
ChakraStrings
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When you read my post, I bet you felt anger. If you did you went into the world of anger. You might have then felt bad, because you may have entered the world of hell for just a brief time. We live in the ten worlds of witch heaven and hell are just two.
That makes more sense that would you said at first. (I needed some more in depth explaination). So basically, emotions are different 'worlds'? And, sorry if I got a little angry, this is all new to me. Kind've like a culture shock you know?
Okay well, I still find some doubt in that... because wouldn't the world change around you if you felt those feelings? And when you die, you basically are reborn?
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
That makes more sense that would you said at first. (I needed some more in depth explaination). So basically, emotions are different 'worlds'? And, sorry if I got a little angry, this is all new to me. Kind've like a culture shock you know?
Okay well, I still find some doubt in that... because wouldn't the world change around you if you felt those feelings? And when you die, you basically are reborn?
The word does change around you. Have you ever been so angry that you do or say something really stupid? I know I have. At the time, saying something wrong or doing the wrong thing made so much sense, but when I left that world and went into the world of realization, I couldn't believe I was so stupid. When you are in a world, you live by the rules of that world.
Here is a link to learn more:
http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/faqs/tenworlds.htm
ChakraStrings
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The word does change around you. Have you ever been so angry that you do or say something really stupid? I know I have. At the time, saying something wrong or doing the wrong thing made so much sense, but when I left that world and went into the world of realization, I couldn't believe I was so stupid. When you are in a world, you live by the rules of that world.
Here is a link to learn more:
http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/faqs/tenworlds.htm
Okay, thanks. But, I still highly doubt that you switch into a different "world" everytime you are angry, etc. It makes a little sense, but really, I just don't think it's true. And I'm not just saying that based upon my own religion... I' simply stating it because it does not make sense. But thank you, I will check that link later.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Okay, thanks. But, I still highly doubt that you switch into a different "world" everytime you are angry, etc. It makes a little sense, but really, I just don't think it's true. And I'm not just saying that based upon my own religion... I' simply stating it because it does not make sense. But thank you, I will check that link later.
Look at it closely and if you can, please fill free to disprove it for me.
ChakraStrings
I don't know. It sounds kind've strange if you ask me. Some of it does make sense though, like, in a sense, they do have meaning. But, it just seems a little fishy to me. Like, the possibility of going into a different 'world' with every emotion just doesn't seem correct... I can't explain why, I just don't think it's correct.
MyOwnMuse
You're taking it too literally, I think.
ChakraStrings
Why would you not take it literally if it was your religion?
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Why would you not take it literally if it was your religion?
Please do not take it too literally.
The truth of the ten worlds is not black or white. As you grow, you will understand how the ten worlds work, for now simple understand that you have control over which world you go too.
ChakraStrings
But... why would you not take your own religion seriously? I just fail to see it actually existing. Sorry.
confused
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
But... why would you not take your own religion seriously? I just fail to see it actually existing. Sorry.
confused
Do you think that literal and serious mean the same thing?
Alliance
Because they dont.
TheKingofKINGS!
Heaven is easy to get into. All you have to do is truely believe that Jesus died for you.
MyOwnMuse
Very good.
I feel like you're taking the meaning too literally, as if we physically jump into a whole new world (A new fantastic point of view!) each time we enter a new emotional state. But that's not what it's saying.
Alliance
fantastic indeed.
ChakraStrings
Oh... good point. o.o'
But still, I just think you should take your religious both literally and seriously. Otherwise, why have a belief in that religion you know?
Alliance
Because theres more to religoin than senselss dogma. And the dogma is not the important point.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ChakraStrings
Oh... good point. o.o'
But still, I just think you should take your religious both literally and seriously. Otherwise, why have a belief in that religion you know?
If you do that, then you miss a lot of the truth. There are some trues in life, that cannot be spoken, so we tell parables. This is what Jesus did to teach a deeper truth. If you only listen to the story, you will miss the meaning.
MyOwnMuse
Because the stories of religion are meant(generally) to convey points. Not convey what actually came to pass. Like any story, they use analogies, allegories, etc. to teach a lesson.
Alliance
Its mythology, parables, fables, etc. Stories with points.
MyOwnMuse
I wonder how many different ways we can state this? Shaky didn't use the word "point", so points(ha!) for him.
MyOwnMuse
I was being sarcastic, not literal.
Jerk.
Alliance
Yes. Way to resort to bashing.
MyOwnMuse
Theory of forum thread breakdown...
ChakraStrings
Yeah, c'mon, no point in bashing. And Shake, I understand what you're getting at... I was thinking of reading over some sections in the Bible... you know, like really read it. But, if what the Bible tells us about a Paradise... uhh, I don't know what to believe anymore...
Alliance
Thats a perfectly acceptabel position. Lots of people don't know what to believe.
ChakraStrings
This is all so new to me. I mean, before I only saw things from my own perspective... and now all these others... blowup
CONFUSION.
Lord Urizen
Evangelical Heaven, Muslim Heaven, Jewish Heaven, Pentecostal Heaven, and most of the Heavens that exist in each religion, I have no desire to attain.
Alliance
Is there an atheist heaven....oh thats right....its not a religoin. I guess we'll claim earth.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
Is there an atheist heaven....oh thats right....its not a religoin. I guess we'll claim earth.
Earth is the Buddhist heaven, so you can't have it.
Alliance
Is that so huh. Lets figt a war over it. Exterminate all buddhists.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
Is that so huh. Lets figt a war over it. Exterminate all buddhists.
You can't build an army because you can't get the tax write off that you need. Organized religions rock.
Alliance
You'd be surprised....
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
You'd be surprised....
Atheists never agree on anything except that there is no God, and half you army will be smoking pot.
Alliance
Hey. I'm not the buddhist now.
I'm not rastafarian either.
There is no room for drugs in my army. Facism rocks!
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
Hey. I'm not the buddhist now.
I'm not rastafarian either.
There is no room for drugs in my army. Facism rocks!
I win.
Grimm22
If you ask me all you have to do is be a good person and be selfless and help others when you can.
You dont have to be a saint or even believe in a certain religion, as long as you are a good person thats all that truely matters.
Thats why I think people have been corrupted by religion, because they think that doing this and that is what god wants, but what god really wants is for people to not be corrupted by evil.
Its not about who's relgion is right or not, its about good to your fellow man and having morals and being selfless
Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I win.
A myth that I have allowed to persist until I am ready.
Originally posted by Grimm22
If you ask me all you have to do is be a good person and be selfless and help others when you can.
You dont have to be a saint or even believe in a certain religion, as long as you are a good person thats all that truely matters.
Thats why I think people have been corrupted by religion, because they think that doing this and that is what god wants, but what god really wants is for people to not be corrupted by evil.
Its not about who's relgion is right or not, its about good to your fellow man and having morals and being selfless
This is a good view imo.
Storm
Individuals' actions are a good measure whether a person is good or not, instead of making judgements based on a label.
ChakraStrings
Originally posted by Grimm22
If you ask me all you have to do is be a good person and be selfless and help others when you can.
You dont have to be a saint or even believe in a certain religion, as long as you are a good person thats all that truely matters.
Thats why I think people have been corrupted by religion, because they think that doing this and that is what god wants, but what god really wants is for people to not be corrupted by evil.
Its not about who's relgion is right or not, its about good to your fellow man and having morals and being selfless
Intresting. That does make a lot of sense as well, I do agree with you on that.
Regret
Originally posted by Grimm22
If you ask me all you have to do is be a good person and be selfless and help others when you can.
You dont have to be a saint or even believe in a certain religion, as long as you are a good person thats all that truely matters.
Thats why I think people have been corrupted by religion, because they think that doing this and that is what god wants, but what god really wants is for people to not be corrupted by evil.
Its not about who's relgion is right or not, its about good to your fellow man and having morals and being selfless
Unless of course there is a science and methodology to it. Perhaps being good is the point, but what if prescribed methods produce maximal good while other methods produce a minimal good. Which would be the better path? It is all well and good to be good, but if you are not trying to maximize your effectiveness, are you really being good? Are you still a good person if you do not care enough to attempt to maximize the good you do?
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Storm
Individuals' actions are a good measure whether a person is good or not, instead of making judgements based on a label.
That is difficult because it requires that people look beyond them selves and truly see what others are doing. It is easier to just make judgment based on superficial labels.
Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Storm
Individuals' actions are a good measure whether a person is good or not, instead of making judgements based on a label.
I agree with that, and it is the trouble I have with certain other views on this board. The concept that a person labelled "saved" or "born again" or "Christian" is good, regardless of their actions in life.
I believe a person should be more defined by their intentions and acts, rather then what they claim to be.
Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Grimm22
If you ask me all you have to do is be a good person and be selfless and help others when you can.
You dont have to be a saint or even believe in a certain religion, as long as you are a good person thats all that truely matters.
Thats why I think people have been corrupted by religion, because they think that doing this and that is what god wants, but what god really wants is for people to not be corrupted by evil.
Its not about who's relgion is right or not, its about good to your fellow man and having morals and being selfless
I agree 100%
Shakyamunison
Go camping in the woods, and get up early to watch the sun raise.
That is heaven.
mahasattva
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Go camping in the woods, and get up early to watch the sun raise.
That is heaven.
What if the weather is bad? The truth here is crystal clear.
JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by Grimm22
If you ask me all you have to do is be a good person and be selfless and help others when you can.
You dont have to be a saint or even believe in a certain religion, as long as you are a good person thats all that truely matters.
Thats why I think people have been corrupted by religion, because they think that doing this and that is what god wants, but what god really wants is for people to not be corrupted by evil.
Its not about who's relgion is right or not, its about good to your fellow man and having morals and being selfless
Luke 19:10, “…the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost .”
Being good? Selfless? Helpful?
Friend, according to God (Jesus Christ) humanity is lost. There is a "spiritual" problem at the root of humanity's condition of being lost. We are all sinners in need of salvation.
2 Peter 3:9, “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance .”
That is why we must repent. The Greek word for repent is "metanoeo" {met-an-o-eh'-o} it means to "change one's mind." God desires all people to repent "from sin" and turn toward Him for salvation from sin.
1 Timothy 2:3-4, “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
We need salvation if we are not already saved. Being good, selfless, and helpful should FOLLOW one's salvation experience, not be the cause of it. You see a person can be all of those things yet die in their sins and go to Hell. Get saved FIRST then your good deeds will become as fruit and Christ Jesus will reward you accordingly.
John 3:15-17, “…whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son , that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. ”
We must BELIEVE IN Jesus Christ in order to be saved. We are saved THROUGH CHRIST JESUS not through our good deeds. But our good deeds will get us a reward, so there is some incentive to being good, selfless, and helpful.
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
All of our self-righteous acts/deeds are like filthy rags to God. We can never DO enough nice things, good things, or commendable things in order to attain salvation. We need Christ Jesus for that.
Romans 3:10
As it is written:
“ There is none righteous, no, not one ;
No person is GOOD enough to go into God's presence in Heaven. Apart from Christ we are all UN-righteous, lost, and spiritually dead in trespasses and sins.
Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ , to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Figuratively speaking, God STAMPS us RIGHTEOUS as it were once we each "personally" put our faith or trust in Christ Jesus for salvation from sin. It is not possible to be rigteous in God's eyes through good deeds. Our good deeds will ONLY result in a reward ONCE we are saved. But our good deeds DO NOT save us or make us righteous in God's eyes.
Romans 3:24-28
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus , whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus .
Those who trust Jesus for salvation from sin are DECLARED RIGHTEOUS by God the Father. This "right-relationship" or "right-standing" before God is done for us freely by God's grace (underserved favor). For this reason it is futile to attempt to get to Heaven on good works. Salvation is free for us but it cost God the Father His Son. So, God the Father "justifies" or declares "just" (or righteous) those who have FAITH in Jesus FOR salvation. There is nothing that we can do to make ourselves good enough before God. Only God can "justify" us before Himself and that is what He does for those who realize that they can never be good enough to stand in His presence.
Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith , we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ ,
There is amazing consistency among the Scriptures that we are justified (declared "good enough" to stand in God's presence, in lay-man's terms).
Galatians 2:16
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ , even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Works of the law is a reference to keeping the Law of Moses. We are not saved by keeping the Ten Commandments or other laws contained in the Law of Moses. Again, amazing continuity and consistency between the Old Testament and New Testament. We are not justifed by the works of the law (of Moses) or by our good works, but ONLY through our personal faith in the Son of God--Jesus the Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves ; it is the gift of God ,
By grace: God the Father's love and grace motivated Him to send His only Son to die for the sins of the entire world so that we could be saved from the consequences of our sins.
Through faith: We appropriate what Jesus accomplished on OUR BEHALF by faith (personal, earnest trust in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin).
Not of yourselves: we are NOT saved by our selflessness, helpfulness, or good deeds. The Word of God continually reiterates this and has made it abundantly clear.
It is the gift of God: Friends, no matter how hard you try you CANNOT earn or merit a gift. Salvation from sin is a FREE gift provided by God but held in trust as it were IN CHRIST.
Philippians 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness , which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith ;
Our righteousness is not self-attained but applied to our lives respectively THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. This is a constant, steadfast, reality shown throughout the New Testament.
2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Again, we are NOT saved by our good works no matter how helpful, selfless, or commendable.
Titus 3:5-7
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior , that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
This verse sums up everything that I have written, succinctly.
I hope this helps.
mahasattva
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Luke 19:10, “…the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost .”
Being good? Selfless? Helpful?
Friend, according to God (Jesus Christ) humanity is lost. There is a "spiritual" problem at the root of humanity's condition of being lost. We are all sinners in need of salvation.
2 Peter 3:9, “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance .”
That is why we must repent. The Greek word for repent is "metanoeo" {met-an-o-eh'-o} it means to "change one's mind." God desires all people to repent "from sin" and turn toward Him for salvation from sin.
1 Timothy 2:3-4, “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
We need salvation if we are not already saved. Being good, selfless, and helpful should FOLLOW one's salvation experience, not be the cause of it. You see a person can be all of those things yet die in their sins and go to Hell. Get saved FIRST then your good deeds will become as fruit and Christ Jesus will reward you accordingly.
John 3:15-17, “…whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.” “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son , that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. ”
We must BELIEVE IN Jesus Christ in order to be saved. We are saved THROUGH CHRIST JESUS not through our good deeds. But our good deeds will get us a reward, so there is some incentive to being good, selfless, and helpful.
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
All of our self-righteous acts/deeds are like filthy rags to God. We can never DO enough nice things, good things, or commendable things in order to attain salvation. We need Christ Jesus for that.
Romans 3:10
As it is written:
“ There is none righteous, no, not one ;
No person is GOOD enough to go into God's presence in Heaven. Apart from Christ we are all UN-righteous, lost, and spiritually dead in trespasses and sins.
Romans 3:22
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ , to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
Figuratively speaking, God STAMPS us RIGHTEOUS as it were once we each "personally" put our faith or trust in Christ Jesus for salvation from sin. It is not possible to be rigteous in God's eyes through good deeds. Our good deeds will ONLY result in a reward ONCE we are saved. But our good deeds DO NOT save us or make us righteous in God's eyes.
Romans 3:24-28
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus , whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus .
Those who trust Jesus for salvation from sin are DECLARED RIGHTEOUS by God the Father. This "right-relationship" or "right-standing" before God is done for us freely by God's grace (underserved favor). For this reason it is futile to attempt to get to Heaven on good works. Salvation is free for us but it cost God the Father His Son. So, God the Father "justifies" or declares "just" (or righteous) those who have FAITH in Jesus FOR salvation. There is nothing that we can do to make ourselves good enough before God. Only God can "justify" us before Himself and that is what He does for those who realize that they can never be good enough to stand in His presence.
Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith , we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ ,
There is amazing consistency among the Scriptures that we are justified (declared "good enough" to stand in God's presence, in lay-man's terms).
Galatians 2:16
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ , even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Works of the law is a reference to keeping the Law of Moses. We are not saved by keeping the Ten Commandments or other laws contained in the Law of Moses. Again, amazing continuity and consistency between the Old Testament and New Testament. We are not justifed by the works of the law (of Moses) or by our good works, but ONLY through our personal faith in the Son of God--Jesus the Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves ; it is the gift of God ,
By grace: God the Father's love and grace motivated Him to send His only Son to die for the sins of the entire world so that we could be saved from the consequences of our sins.
Through faith: We appropriate what Jesus accomplished on OUR BEHALF by faith (personal, earnest trust in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin).
Not of yourselves: we are NOT saved by our selflessness, helpfulness, or good deeds. The Word of God continually reiterates this and has made it abundantly clear.
It is the gift of God: Friends, no matter how hard you try you CANNOT earn or merit a gift. Salvation from sin is a FREE gift provided by God but held in trust as it were IN CHRIST.
Philippians 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness , which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith ;
Our righteousness is not self-attained but applied to our lives respectively THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. This is a constant, steadfast, reality shown throughout the New Testament.
2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Again, we are NOT saved by our good works no matter how helpful, selfless, or commendable.
Titus 3:5-7
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior , that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
This verse sums up everything that I have written, succinctly.
I hope this helps.
The wise man makes his own heaven while the foolish man creates his own hell here and hereafter.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by mahasattva
What if the weather is bad? The truth here is crystal clear.
Then heaven becomes hell.
debbiejo
Though you can click you heels 3 times.........and be back again...
mahasattva
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then heaven becomes hell.
It seems to me that no matter how we live in the wonderful and beautiful place or environment if the workings of the mind of the people are deluded, they are bound to delusions that happiness or salvation is far reach to see from our their own lives. We'll, in fact, neither heaven(pure land) nor hell(impure land) exist both lies within our five-foot body.
It is this powerful statement of the enlightened mind of the Shakyamuni, the Buddha(Enlightened One), which speaks during preaching assembly:
"....For asamkhya kalpas
constantly I have dwelled on Holy Eagle Peak
and in various other places.
When living beings witness the end of a kalpa
and all is consumed in a great fire,
this, my land, remains safe and tranquil,hypocrite
constantly filled with heavenly and human beings. pile
The halls and pavilions in its gardens and groves
are adorned with various kinds of gems.
Jeweled trees abound in flowers and fruit
where living beings enjoy themselves at ease. group
The gods strike heavenly drums,
constantly making many kinds of music.
Mandarava blossoms rain down,
scattering over the Buddha and the great assembly.
My pure land is NOT destroyed,
yet the multitude SEE it as consumed in fire,furious
with anxiety, fear and other sufferings sadangel sadwalk
filling it everywhere.blowup
These living beings with their various offenses,
through causes arising from their evil actions,
spend asamkhya kalpas
without hearing the name of the Three Treasures....."
"My pure land is not destroyed." What power these words convey...!!!!
ESB -1138
No one can get to the Father expect through the Son. Once you expect Jesus into your heart as your personal lord and savior that's it, you are going to heaven. Nothing can destroy your salvation.
debbiejo
I just saddled up my unicorn !!!!!!
Ready now...
ESB -1138
Job 39:9
Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
A unicorn was untamable. But early drawings of unicorns had as many as three horns and weren't horses but resembled more of a certain dinosaur we know today.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ESB -1138
Job 39:9
Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
A unicorn was untamable. But early drawings of unicorns had as many as three horns and weren't horses but resembled more of a certain dinosaur we know today.
The unicorn is not real.
debbiejo
Never know though....yet, this has nothing to do with Jesus.
ESB -1138
Not anymore but early drawings of a unicorn resembled more of a Triceratops then a horse.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ESB -1138
Not anymore but early drawings of a unicorn resembled more of a Triceratops then a horse.
You need to show these early drawings. I have never seen any drawings of a unicorn that resembles a Triceratops, and I have studied art.
MyOwnMuse
I have also never heard this. Goat with a lion's tale I have seen and heard, as well as some speculation that it was built from stories of a single-horned, woolly-mammoth type creature that became extinct during the ice age. But never a triceratops.
ESB -1138
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Paleo_ptg_lascaux_unicorn.jpg
2 maybe 3 horns for this is a side view
MyOwnMuse
Ah, how we love Wikipedia!
I must say, though, I still find it a stretch to go from that drawing to triceratops. Not that I've seen a triceratops recently...my time machine isn't working yet.
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ESB -1138
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e1/Paleo_ptg_lascaux_unicorn.jpg
2 maybe 3 horns for this is a side view
So you think that is a unicorn? No one knows what that is.
JesusIsAlive
Originally posted by mahasattva
The wise man makes his own heaven while the foolish man creates his own hell here and hereafter.
Why did you post this? The wise man makes his own heaven? The foolish man creates his own hell...? You are more intelligent than this Mahasattva, and you can do better than this.
ESB -1138
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So you think that is a unicorn? No one knows what that is.
You throw a unicorn as a horse with one horn. Many people believed unicorns to have the head and body of a lion, a single horn, and a tail of a snake. Their are many different pictures and views of the unicorns. Unicorns are many different things and now that you have been proven with the fact that some unicorns have more then one horn you throw out the facts.
One more thing; can you back up your word and prove your claim?
Alliance
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why did you post this? The wise man makes his own heaven? The foolish man creates his own hell...? You are more intelligent than this Mahasattva, and you can do better than this.
Actually...most people think its brilliant.
Alliance
Or look in the yellowbook!
ESB -1138
Luke 23:39-43
And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto three, to day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
A thief was saved on the cross for he gave his life and everything he had to Jesus.
Alliance
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The beauty of salvation. Thanks Jesus!
Does anyone else find it amusing that JIA responds to his own posts?
Black Rob
Originally posted by Alliance
Does anyone else find it amusing that JIA responds to his own posts? he loves the sound of his own online voice apparently
Shakyamunison
Originally posted by ESB -1138
You throw a unicorn as a horse with one horn. Many people believed unicorns to have the head and body of a lion, a single horn, and a tail of a snake. Their are many different pictures and views of the unicorns. Unicorns are many different things and now that you have been proven with the fact that some unicorns have more then one horn you throw out the facts.
One more thing; can you back up your word and prove your claim?
Unicorns do not exist, and never have.
What claim are you talking about?
Originally posted by Alliance
Does anyone else find it amusing that JIA responds to his own posts?
No one else will quote his posts?
Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No one else will quote his posts?
I guess. He has posting issues imo.
Regret
Originally posted by Alliance
Does anyone else find it amusing that JIA responds to his own posts?
Ummm, vain repetitions?
Alliance
OOH! I like that idea.
mahasattva
Originally posted by ESB -1138
No one can get to the Father expect through the Son. Once you expect Jesus into your heart as your personal lord and savior that's it, you are going to heaven. Nothing can destroy your salvation.
Buddhist find much to admire in the life and teachings of Jesus. Different Buddhists have different ideas about Jesus's place in the Buddhist worldview. Most Mahayana Buddhists would see him as an exemplary bodhisattva. I would agree with this. I see Jesus as an embodiment of the bodhisattva ideal. He did not teach the unique teachings of Buddhism concerning the four noble truths or dependent origination so I can not see him as a Buddha. Furthermore, his experience of God as Abba (the Aramaic word for "Daddy"
seems to describe a very devotional and intimate personal relationship to Brahma. However, his selflessness is suggestive of one who has realized nirvana and he attempted to convey that to others in terms of being "born-again." His disciples experience of the Risen Lord does seem to match the Buddhist description of the sambhogakaya - a limited form of which is possessed by the bodhisattvas who are able to emanate many spiritual bodies for the sake of suffering beings. So in many ways, the life and teachings of Jesus are not incompatible with Buddhism if Jesus is understood to be a bodhisattva who attempted to convey as much as he could of the Dharma (Law or Truth) in terms his contemporaries could understand.
In Mahayana Buddhism, it is taught that the buddhas and bodhisattvas appear throughout the universe in order to convey the Dharma in different ways to different beings. To do this, they employ what is called upaya or "provisional methods." This means that if they can not convey the Dharma directly, they will find a way to express it in a way that their listeners can understand and work with. In this way, they can gradually mature those beings to the point where they can understand the Dharma directly either in that lifetime or in a future lifetime. Sometimes, they just try to provide a way for beings to attain the heavenly pure lands where they can meet the sambhogakaya buddhas and learn the Dharma from them. Jesus's remark that he was going to prepare a place for his disciples, and that in heaven there were many mansions, and that he had other flocks his disciples did not know about are all very suggestive of such an arrangement. St. Paul also suggests that in the end, people will see clearly and not through a glass darkly.
Nazgulinthedark
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Heaven is a state of mind.
If you go to Heaven once you die, and your mind stops working after you die, how exactly does that work?
Storm
It means heaven nor hell exist. The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of hell, and a hell of heaven.
Alliance
And once you die, it doesnt matter...unless oyu believe in some sort of reincarnation...whether it be spiritual or physical.
Regret
Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly
They go down to the lake of fire and fry
Won't see them again till the fourth of July
I knew a lady who came from Duluth
She got bit by a dog with a rabid tooth
She went to her grave just a little too soon
And she flew away howling on the yellow moon
Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly
They go down to the lake of fire and fry
Won't see them again till the fourth of July
Now the people cry and the people moan
And they look for a dry place to call their home
And try to find some place to rest their bones
While the angels and the devils
Try to claim them for their own
Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly
They go down to the lake of fire and fry
Won't see them again till the fourth of July
~Nirvana
debbiejo
Your life can be heaven or hell now.........it's called cause and effect...........though I do believe that we do leave these bodies........not just rot in the earth.......nope............we go back to where we came from..............
Alliance
To the womb! EEEWW!
debbiejo
cheers
In the end WE will know.........though not death cause energy will and cannot be distroyed..........and that is what we are.
Alliance
No. Its not. The matter you are made of is. not the entity that is YOU.
debbiejo
Can YOU prove this??
Alliance
Yes. A pile of C, H, O, and traces of other elemets is physically the same thing that we are.
Matter is matter is energy. (created and destroyed temporarily)
Yes, a pile of elements doesnt have consciousness, we do. When we die that goes away.
debbiejo
You seem so sure about the consciousness part.............and matter is matter which consistences of energy...........energy.........where does it go when it changes it's form?
Alliance
There is no direct evidence for a physical basis for consciousness. Its the miracle of perception.
Regret
Actually it is a byproduct of brain function, and may not be necessary.
Alliance
I agree, but to me its still miraculous.
Regret
Agreed.
I, being a behavioral psychologist, have difficulty with people citing consciousness as an evidence for spirit/mind. It is an interesting and miraculous phenomena, but it may not really even exist outside the functioning of the brain. The brain functions, and somehow consciousness occurs, it does not imply that there is anything separate from the functioning.
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