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Perhaps one of the forum Buddhists can answer this for me, what seperates Buddhism from simply being an exercise in escapism(similar to drugs or entertainment). I mean...Buddhist principles could give you happiness in theory, but the problem is that you can never fully escape reality while you still live, and so you cannot just focus on the internal because the external is always present. An example: Do you think Buddhist principles would bring peace to a man, who is being held up in a torture camp, and feels intense physical pain every moment of his life? etc. etc. I know that it was an extreme example, but you get the point.

ARGH. Another Q&A thread.

All religions are an experience in escapism.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Perhaps one of the forum Buddhists can answer this for me, what seperates Buddhism from simply being an exercise in escapism(similar to drugs or entertainment). I mean...Buddhist principles could give you happiness in theory, but the problem is that you can never fully escape reality while you still live, and so you cannot just focus on the internal because the external is always present. An example: Do you think Buddhist principles would bring peace to a man, who is being held up in a torture camp, and feels intense physical pain every moment of his life? etc. etc. I know that it was an extreme example, but you get the point.

You should read the writings of Nichiren Daishonin, a man who was tortured and band to a desolate island.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/wnd/

Please in the future, know something about what you are talking about, it will keep you from looking like a complete idiot.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You should read the writings of Nichiren Daishonin, a man who was tortured and band to a desolate island.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/wnd/

Please in the future, know something about what you are talking about, it will keep you from looking like a complete idiot.

WTF ? That was hardly necessary.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
WTF ? That was hardly necessary.

I found it funny that you asked if Buddhism could help a man who was tortured, when Nichiren Daishonin was persecuted for his beliefs.

I meant no personal offence, but there are many examples of Buddhists who have been tortured and killed because of their belief. I find it strange that you did not know this.

The answer is, yes, it can help, and no, it is not escapism. A Buddhist does not ignore reality, but he/she understands that reality is subject to the mind.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I found it funny that you asked if Buddhism could help a man who was tortured, when Nichiren Daishonin was persecuted for his beliefs.

I meant no personal offence, but there are many examples of Buddhists who have been tortured and killed because of their belief. I find it strange that you did not know this.

The answer is, yes, it can help, and no, it is not escapism. A Buddhist does not ignore reality, but he/she understands that reality is subject to the mind.

You meant no personal offence by calling me an idiot ? Okay.

But it doesnt matter. I'd rather talk about the topic.

Yes Im sure that Buddhists throughout history have been subjected to torment for their beliefs. But doesnt Buddhism promise the deliverance from all pain? Being tormented, I dont imagine that they escaped from their pain. You cannot just ignore reality and it will go away. And even if somehow through an extraordinary act of willpower they conquered their pain, this is not a practical for the average human being. Buddhism principles in general are not practical for the average being, because they require super-human willpower. I could never detach myself from reality, if somone I cared about is killled, then I will be sad. End of story.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
You meant no personal offence by calling me an idiot ? Okay.

But it doesnt matter. I'd rather talk about the topic.

Yes Im sure that Buddhists throughout history have been subjected to torment for their beliefs. But doesnt Buddhism promise the deliverance from all pain? Being tormented, I dont imagine that they escaped from their pain. You cannot just ignore reality and it will go away. And even if somehow through an extraordinary act of willpower they conquered their pain, this is not a practical for the average human being. Buddhism principles in general are not practical for the average being, because they require super-human willpower. I could never detach myself from reality, if somone I cared about is killled, then I will be sad. End of story.

You are sounding idiotic, because it is obvious that you do not understand Buddhism. If you find that offensive, then I retract my comment and deeply regret posting on this thread.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are sounding idiotic, because it is obvious that you do not understand Buddhism. If you find that offensive, then I retract my comment and deeply regret posting on this thread.

What have I said that is inconsistent with Buddhism?

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
You meant no personal offence by calling me an idiot ? Okay.

But it doesnt matter. I'd rather talk about the topic.

Yes Im sure that Buddhists throughout history have been subjected to torment for their beliefs. But doesnt Buddhism promise the deliverance from all pain? Being tormented, I dont imagine that they escaped from their pain. You cannot just ignore reality and it will go away. And even if somehow through an extraordinary act of willpower they conquered their pain, this is not a practical for the average human being. Buddhism principles in general are not practical for the average being, because they require super-human willpower. I could never detach myself from reality, if somone I cared about is killled, then I will be sad. End of story.

Buddhism isn't about the ignoring of reality, because that will never lead to happiness...only a false one, at best.

Buddhism involves acceptance not only of yourself, but of the world around you, and the way in which you exist in the world. It's a tricky concept to explain, and is probably better understood by understanding what it's not. Does that make sense?

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
What have I said that is inconsistent with Buddhism?


I am sorry, I am not doing a good job talking to you, and after reading my posts, I realize that I was too hard with you.


Buddhism is not escaping reality; Buddhism is understanding reality. A Buddha will feel pain just like you or I do. We lean how to have control over our bodies in order to help us have a happier life. What you said is like me saying that Christians worship the devil. I would be an idiot in that case.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am sorry, I am not doing a good job talking to you, and after reading my posts, I realize that I was too hard with you.


Buddhism is not escaping reality; Buddhism is understanding reality. A Buddha will feel pain just like you or I do. We lean how to have control over our bodies in order to help us have a happier life. What you said is like me saying that Christians worship the devil. I would be an idiot in that case.

Is not the ultimate goal of Buddhism, to be released from all suffering? And what do you mean 'control our bodies'?

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Is not the ultimate goal of Buddhism, to be released from all suffering? And what do you mean 'control our bodies'?


'control our bodies' Hmmm That was not the best way of putting it.

More like having control over our lives by accepting respectability for all of our actions.

Happiness is the ultimate goal, suffering is just part of life.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
'control our bodies' Hmmm That was not the best way of putting it.

More like having control over our lives by accepting respectability for all of our actions.

Happiness is the ultimate goal, suffering is just part of life.

By 'respectability' do you mean 'responsibility'?

I doubt Im going to convince you that your religion is wrong, and I dont mean any offense, but Buddhism from my point of view is an elaborate form of stoicism that also serves as an escapism. I realize that the point to Buddhism is 'understanding reality', but that in turn is supposed to give you an 'enlightened' state, a state of happiness as you said. The problem is that Buddhist principles are not always practical within reality...do you really think that Buddhist principles will help people that are starving to death in Africa? What about insane people, that are incapable of even understanding the basic principles? My point is that Buddhism is not evenly applicable to humanity, and at best it could be looked upon as a way to escape from mental pain IF you are capable of fully applying its teachings, and you are under agreeable circumstances.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
By 'respectability' do you mean 'responsibility'?

I doubt Im going to convince you that your religion is wrong, and I dont mean any offense, but Buddhism from my point of view is an elaborate form of stoicism that also serves as an escapism. I realize that the point to Buddhism is 'understanding reality', but that in turn is supposed to give you an 'enlightened' state, a state of happiness as you said. The problem is that Buddhist principles are not always practical within reality...do you really think that Buddhist principles will help people that are starving to death in Africa? What about insane people, that are incapable of even understanding the basic principles? My point is that Buddhism is not evenly applicable to humanity, and at best it could be looked upon as a way to escape from mental pain IF you are capable of fully applying its teachings, and you are under agreeable circumstances.

Yes responsibility, the spell check go away from me and I picked the wrong word.

Like I said, you don't understand Buddhism. What does right or wrong religion have to do with Buddhism? It is up to us, not Buddhism, to help the starving and insane.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Yes responsibility, the spell check go away from me and I picked the wrong word.

Like I said, you don't understand Buddhism. What does right or wrong religion have to do with Buddhism? It is up to us, not Buddhism, to help the starving and insane.

Ive read a good deal about Buddhism, and from what Ive read, your making a contradiction. Only *you* can save yourself from suffering, others can not do it for you.

And Buddhism is a religion correct? Whether it is a correct path to follow or not determines if it is a 'right' or 'wrong' religion.

As I understand it...

Like the Western faiths, Buddhism, ultimately, is centered in an experience, not a doctrine, no "supposed to's." Unlike the Western faiths, as few as possible preconceived notions should be attached to this experience; perhaps it may be simply described as one of perspective--not for escaping from reality but for dealing with it. There is no magic; there is commitment, effort and time. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it. Buddhism is almost like a set of instructions (almost), by which one isn't told the truth; one is told how he can find it for himself.

From my understanding Buddhism is the attempt to reach a state of contentment. A state where one understands the unimportance of the physical, the understanding of the consequences of ones own action, as well as the actions of others. This understanding allows one to not ignore or escape reality, but instead see the happiness that good actions bring and joy in them. While at the same time seeing the suffering that inflicting suffering on others causes that individual, and sorrowing for their state.

Ultimately self is of less consequence, and everything outside the self is more important, or at least of equal importance.

I could be wrong though, that is merely my observation from some small reading and experience with a few Buddhists.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Ive read a good deal about Buddhism, and from what Ive read, your making a contradiction. Only *you* can save yourself from suffering, others can not do it for you.

And Buddhism is a religion correct? Whether it is a correct path to follow or not determines if it is a 'right' or 'wrong' religion.

I know what you are talking about now.
Buddhism is divided into two major groups, Theravada Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism. What you are describing is Theravada, however I am Mahayana.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am Mahayana. i.e. "the bad one"...

Originally posted by Alliance
i.e. "the bad one"...

Why do you say that?

Originally posted by Alliance


Not the bunny....

barker

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I know what you are talking about now.
Buddhism is divided into two major groups, Theravada Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism. What you are describing is Theravada, however I am Mahayana.

Ah. Thanks for clearing that up. Ill look more into your Mahayana Buddhism, before I make a judgment on it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You should read the writings of Nichiren Daishonin, a man who was tortured and band to a desolate island.

http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/wnd/

Please in the future, know something about what you are talking about, it will keep you from looking like a complete idiot.

I agree with shaky,being one of my favorite religions because of it's deep philosophy. try meditating and see how hard it is.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Ah. Thanks for clearing that up. Ill look more into your Mahayana Buddhism, before I make a judgment on it.


If you wish to know more about my personal religion read about the Lotus sutra. The Lotus sutra in my "holy book", so to speak.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Perhaps one of the forum Buddhists can answer this for me, what seperates Buddhism from simply being an exercise in escapism(similar to drugs or entertainment). I mean...Buddhist principles could give you happiness in theory, but the problem is that you can never fully escape reality while you still live, and so you cannot just focus on the internal because the external is always present. An example: Do you think Buddhist principles would bring peace to a man, who is being held up in a torture camp, and feels intense physical pain every moment of his life? etc. etc. I know that it was an extreme example, but you get the point.

It's the other way round - Buddhism is all about being awake - Not on drugs or entertainment), about facing reality and seeing it for what it really is, Not to escape it, but to be aware of it and to embrace it without becomming attached to it.

Originally posted by Regret
From my understanding Buddhism is the attempt to reach a state of contentment. A state where one understands the unimportance of the physical, the understanding of the consequences of ones own action, as well as the actions of others. This understanding allows one to not ignore or escape reality, but instead see the happiness that good actions bring and joy in them. While at the same time seeing the suffering that inflicting suffering on others causes that individual, and sorrowing for their state.

Ultimately self is of less consequence, and everything outside the self is more important, or at least of equal importance.

I could be wrong though, that is merely my observation from some small reading and experience with a few Buddhists.

You seem have a great comprehension of Buddhism. Its very rare that people do these days (ie the thread starter)

Buddhism, is it actually a religion?

Originally posted by Alliance
Buddhism, is it actually a religion?

Please define religion.

"...no single definition will suffice to encompass the varied sets of traditions, practices, and ideas which constitute different religions."

So then what is your point ?

We could just as soon have a debate on what a religon is than whether or not Buddhism is actually a religion.

Originally posted by Alliance
We could just as soon have a debate on what a religon is than whether or not Buddhism is actually a religion.

That sounds like the debate that must come first.

Is Christianity a religion?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Is Christianity a religion?

Unfortunately YES.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That sounds like the debate that must come first.

I'd accept if I thought It would come to a rapid conclusion.

Originally posted by Alliance
I'd accept if I thought It would come to a rapid conclusion.

Ya, it's one of the 300 to 400 year debates.

Exactly. And I'm sorry, but I don't have that kind of time.

We can come to that when we go to hell

Originally posted by Alliance
Exactly. And I'm sorry, but I don't have that kind of time.

We can come to that when we go to hell

Been there, done that, and don't want to go back.

Hell sucks