Naga Sadow vs. Kyle Katarn & Mara Jade

Advent

Originally posted by Sith'ari
The whole article and video was talking about coreography and comparing the OT to the PT in that way. When Lucas stated it, it was also very vague and ambiguous.

Originally posted by Advent
Nebaris, I'm getting quite tired of continuously disproving your ridiculous theories, but for the sake of humanity, I can not allow your lack of capable reasoning to go unanswered to.

He's discussing the choreography for the entire movies, unless you're going to argue that he only wanted the lightsaber duels (and there was only one in TPM) to be "more energized version and a more faster version" in TPM alone, then I suggest you get a grip of reality. You can also use the dialogue he uses to describe the OT, and infer that he means the entire prequel trilogy because of his description of how the PT will differ from the OT.

Yes, to you the following statements are correct, however, to the rest of the world they are wrong.

1.) "Relative peace"? There wasn't even relative peace in TPM itself! Queen Amidala was in danger of getting assassinated, the Trade Federation wanted to seize Naboo, and a huge battle erupted.

2.) How exactly would it make sense for the fights to be "more energized/faster/extravagant/spectacular/etc" if it's in a time of "relative peace"?

3.) You're arguing with the Lucas, logic, and everything in between. As I said before, I suggest you stop.

4.) Instead of me posting the six definitions of "prime" from the dictionary, I'll give it to you from the thesaurus (quick def.):

Main Entry: prime
Part of Speech: noun 1
Definition: best

Since Lucas was referring to the entire PT era (and he was, it's stupidity on your part to argue it), your points are defeated.

Again (in case you missed it the first time): He's discussing the choreography for the entire movies, unless you're going to argue that he only wanted the lightsaber duels (and there was only one in TPM) to be "more energized version and a more faster version" in TPM alone, then I suggest you get a grip on reality. You can also use the dialogue he uses to describe the OT, and infer that he means the entire prequel trilogy because of his description of how the PT will differ from the OT.

Maybe because AOTC and ROTS weren't released yet (though that's not to say Lucas didn't know what he wanted for them)? Lucas makes clear that it's his vision for the entire PT (being the "Prime of the Jedi" wink

that he wants all the lightsaber duels to differ from what we saw in the OT ("old men, crippled half droid/half men, young boys" wink

, not just in TPM alone where we only see one freaking duel.

So, sadly, because "The Prime of the Jedi" says everything about the Jedi of the era, and because you're illogical (and can't accept being wrong, I mean really - making up shit like "Lucas looked tired"? lol) your theories are disproved, and my facts stand.

Only unlucky that I have to deal with your bull, Nebaris.

And...

Originally posted by Advent
How exactly was he "vague"? Quit making shit up, GM.

Sith'ari

'Lucas said that the PT is the prime of the Jedi where lightsaber skills are concerned'

Stop making stuff up. He stated that the PT is the prime of the jedi in an article that was behind the scenes for episode 1, and was discussing choreography with Nick Gillard and comparing the OT to the PT.

Escape81

Originally posted by Sith'ari
'Lucas said that the PT is the prime of the Jedi where lightsaber skills are concerned'

Stop making stuff up. He stated that the PT is the prime of the jedi in an article that was behind the scenes for episode 1, and was discussing choreography with Nick Gillard and comparing the OT to the PT.

Motoko's proof above says it all, Nebaris.

Advent

Indeed it is, or you could just go to the Anakin and Obi-Wan vs. Revan and Malak thread for further Adventpwnage.

Sith'ari

No it doesn't. Lucas said it in a very casual way. You can't just take such an ambiguous statement and rely on them in debates.

Advent

Originally posted by Sith'ari
No it doesn't. Lucas said it in a very casual way. You can't just take such an ambiguous statement and rely on them in debates.

How is it "ambiguous"? Quit making shit up, GM.

Sith'ari: It can be interpreted differently!!!
Motoko: Uh, no.
Lucas: "...to see Jedi fighting in the Prime of the Jedi".
Motoko: You were saying?

The statement is dissected like so, "to see Jedi" means the Jedi Order as a whole, and "Prime of the Jedi" means simply "best". So, you put it all together, and the conclusion is: The PT era is the best Order of Jedi we've seen. The highest quality, excellence. And I don't see how it's a stretch considering almost everyone is either a "prodigy", "strong in the Force", "one of the best swordsbeings", etc. And, there's a lot more than five or six.

Sith'ari

The thing is, the entire article is discussing choreography and comparing the OT to the PT, so maybe Lucas considered that he didn't have to be clear and add on 'in comparison to the movies' at the end. Either way, you have failed to convince me.

Sith'ari

'How exactly was he "vague"? Quit making shit up, GM.'

He didn't put any emphasis onto it whatsoever. I mean he even looked kind of sleepy at the time - it was very vague.

Darth Sexy

wow... lol

Advent

Originally posted by Sith'ari
The thing is, the entire article is discussing choreography and comparing the OT to the PT,so maybe Lucas considered that he didn't have to be clear and add on 'in comparison to the movies' at the end.

"...to see Jedi fighting in the Prime of the Jedi I wanted it to be a more energized version and a more faster version."- what Lucas is saying is that he wants the duels to be extravagant because of the era.

And? It's not like convincing an elitist Star Wars fan is something important. Especially when you consider your bias, horrible reasonings, and the fact you hardly accept it when you're wrong.

WTH? He said "...to see Jedi (Jedi Order as a whole) fighting in the Prime of the Jedi (best)" - it's perfectly clear, and after gave that as a reason as to why he wanted the duels to be more extravagant.

ROFL! This is what I'm talking about. Horrible reasonings, get real. I could just as easily say George Lucas' words are invalid because he has no chin.

Absurd logic.

Sith'ari

'"...to see Jedi fighting in the Prime of the Jedi I wanted it to be a more energized version and a more faster version."- what Lucas is saying is that he wants the duels to be extravagant because of the era.'

Didn't realise you were aware of Lucas' hidden thoughts. Impressive...

Sith'ari

'ROFL! This is what I'm talking about. Horrible reasonings, get real. I could just as easily say George Lucas' words are invalid because he has no chin.

Absurd logic.'

Invalid analogy. His fatigue adds to the ambiguity of the statement. His physical appearance doesn't.

Advent

Originally posted by Sith'ari
Invalid analogy. His fatigue adds to the ambiguity of the statement. His physical appearance doesn't.

The similarity is absurdity. He looked tired, therefore his words are invalid/weren't thought out clearly? What bullshit. As I said, get real. It doesn't matter if he hadn't slept for three days, or for ten - he was on camera, on documented film, and better yet; he published it on the website, ergo his words are valid, and because of such, your ridiculous reasonings are the only thing that is invalid.

Sith'ari

'He looked tired, therefore his words are invalid/weren't thought out clearly?'

Well you see, that's not what I said, so quit putting words into my mouth Mokoto. I just stated that his fatigue added to how unclear and vague the statement was.

Advent

Originally posted by Sith'ari
Well you see, that's not what I said, so quit putting words into my mouth Mokoto. I just stated that his fatigue added to how unclear and vague the statement was.

Even worse than what I said for you. What in the world does him looking (keyword) tired have to do with his statement? First of all, it's clear - you just don't accept it, and secondly, it's not vague, GM, so quit making shit up.

"...to see Jedi fighting..." - Jedi Order as a whole.
"...in the Prime of the Jedi..." - PotJ meaning "best".
"...I wanted it to be a more energized version and a faster version" - Describing how he wants the PT because of the above.

Sith'ari

Originally posted by Advent
Even worse than what I said for you. What in the world does him looking (keyword) tired have to do with his statement? First of all, it's clear - you just don't accept it, and secondly, it's not vague, GM, so quit making shit up.

"...to see Jedi fighting..." - Jedi Order as a whole.
"...in the Prime of the Jedi..." - PotJ meaning "best".
"...I wanted it to be a more energized version and a faster version" - Describing how he wants the PT because of the above.

It is vague Mokoto. He doesn't add any emphasis onto the statement, and he states it in a monotonous and very unclear way.

Advent

Originally posted by Sith'ari
It is vague Mokoto. He doesn't add any emphasis onto the statement, and he states it in a monotonous and very unclear way.

GM, that's only your opinion. And monotone? Seriously, since when does GL have to have a specific sound in his voice? He always sounds that way, and how is it unclear? I just broke the entire thing down for you. The Jedi Order in the PT is the highest quality, or "best" Order we've seen, that is clear:

Main Entry: prime
Part of Speech: noun 1
Definition: best

How is "Prime of the Jedi" vague? PotJ = Best of the Jedi. Buddha damn, you really don't have a clue.

As I said before: quit making shit up, GM, you're not gaining any support by doing it.

Sith'ari

I'm not saying that the words are unclear or vague, only the way he said it.

jollyjim311

Sadow would get his arse handed to him in a duel, and, quite frankly, I don't see why he's so great in the force. Correct me if I'm wrong, but, the most powerful force attack we've seen from him is him throwing a single brick, correct?

Advent

No! The most devastating Force power he's used (without equipment) is taking out two bricks, and throwing one on Ludo's head. He's a Force god, I tell you, maybe even the Force god:

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/1630/nagaludoduel1in8.th.jpg

So far, from what he's demonstrated there - he's on par with OT Luke (without his ship, that is).

jollyjim311

No way!

Luke managed to lift up C-3P0.

Darth Sexy

Oh yes! Because we don't know exactly how good he was with his sword, he automatically sucks! Wonderful logic from the KMC regulars here. Lets just assume the ancient sith suck at sword fighting because they were never at war with each other, it ISNT in their nature right? Oh wait.. And while we're at it lets diminish their force abilities too. "Omg he must really suck without his amulet". Please, more retardation. I expect more from you Sama.

Kyle's going to beat Sadow, lol. Ain't that a laugh. The downplaying of characters on this forum is hysterical.

Escape81

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh yes! Because we don't know exactly how good he was with his sword, he automatically sucks! Wonderful logic from the KMC regulars here. Lets just assume the ancient sith suck at sword fighting because they were never at war with each other, it ISNT in their nature right? Oh wait.. And while we're at it lets diminish their force abilities too. "Omg he must really suck without his amulet". Please, more retardation. I expect more from you Sama.

Kyle's going to beat Sadow, lol. Ain't that a laugh. The downplaying of characters on this forum is hysterical.

No, it's simply the truth. Logical deduction and on panel evidence indicate that Sadow required his toys to do anything special. Other than that, he's just an above average Ancient Sith Lord.

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh yes! Because we don't know exactly how good he was with his sword, he automatically sucks! Wonderful logic from the KMC regulars here.

Are you referring to me? Because regulars is plural. Anyways, I don't recall anyone saying he sucks. I do, however, remember that jim said he would get his ass (or 'arse') kicked in a duel. There's nothing to support that Sadow would actually be able to beat Katarn in a duel (Mara he'd beat probably), and you can't deduct much from what we see of him fighting anyways.

Okay, we'll assume they suck - that is what you just said, right?

Seriously, no one even said they suck, they said he'd lose in a duel. And, it "isn't" in their nature to do what? War with each other? Your point? Does it mean all the Ancient Sith were involved...? I don't see what you're getting at.

"More retardation"? How did I dimish his Force abilities?

I said he was on par with OT Luke from what we have actually seen him do without his ship (and that's the only equipment he used in the actual source material). We cannot assume he'll pwn Kyle or Mara with Force lightning, Force grip, etc. because we:

a) Have never seen him use it.
b) Don't know jack about their actual Force powers.

Expect more? Like what? Why would I defend a character that we can only speculate on for most of his actual power?

You come in her with a nice, little response that proved absolutely jack for your case. Ain't that a guffaw.

Darth Sexy

Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!" And you're only speculating Sadow would lose, unless of course you have definitive proof or even logical deduction that somehow the likes of Sadow and Kressh, who were 2nd in the apex of Sith power, are below the likes of Kyle? Come on..

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!"

Oh wow, I didn't know I said that! Oh wait...I didn't z0mg!

I'm saying that while Sadow probably has the Force advantage, we haven't seen him use any Sith magic in a fight, and I'm not saying that he doesn't know it because he obviously does, but we don't know the Sith spells that he actually has. We have not seen him demonstrate any power of even with his amulets, and the only real display of power we saw him doing without his ship (which he doesn't have here obviously) was throwing a brick at Ludo's head.

I'm sure he can do what Aleema can do, but I doubt that's enough to actually defeat Kyle and Mara. Plus, Kyle could always use Mara as a sacrificial lamb for one of Sadow's force attacks, and then engage him in combat anyways.

Lmfao. A versus fight is basically entirely speculation. None of these fights' victors are cold, hard fact. Anyways, Kyle has done far more impressive things than Sadow. "Apex of Sith power"? Is that why they were wiped off of the face of the galaxy?

Please, you have no proof other than "l0l s4d0\_l_/ Dwn5 4ll! sauphcxuxncsd89 ANC1ent 51th ph4llu5!!///!ONEOIDH!".

Apparently this is DN Kyle Katarn, so what makes me think he would win? Har. I should be asking you how Sadow can stop him in direct combat. We know Kyle has at least nine years of battle experience compared to Sadow's...uh, defeat in the same year of going into war? He was in the GCW, and the YZ War. Experience does matter (case in point: Obi-Wan vs. Anakin), though it's not the end all, be all; it still accounts for something.

And really, Kyle is simply a lightsaber prodigy and master (like Ulic and Kun were). He defeated Desann, where Luke didn't (well, there was a reason for that though), and numerous other Dark Jedi. I mean, seriously, he defeated seven Dark Jedi in combat, including Jerec (who was a fully trained Jedi as well), without much training at all actually. And keep in mind that Jerec was trained by Sidious himself, and Vader. Kyle was the Battlemaster as well of the era. He was able to defeat Boba when working as a mercenary, and numerous other Imperial troopers. And also challenged Mara herself without any training still. I'd say he has far more combat experience than Sadow.

We've seen Sadow battle Ludo Kressh, that's about it. We know Kyle has defeated fully trained opponents while having little training, and now he's a lightsaber master, a Battlemaster at that with a lot of experience. I'd say he can defeat Sadow.

Not to mention, he's also got Mara Jade to help out. While I don't think she's much of a match for Sadow, she's a nice icing on the cake.

I'd give it to Kyle and Mara from what we know about them, and from what little we know about Sadow's actual power. Of course, now I'll just have to wait for your "etc, etc, etc" reply.

Darth Sexy

"If they were so great why were they wiped out"?
THanks for your incredible logic lightsnake. Well then, if Palpatine was so powerful, why did he get curbstomped by a machine? See how ridiculous that sounds? Their personal power has nothing to do with the outcome of certain events. Lets see how Sadow was wiped out.. Oh yes, arrogance.. Palpatine, arrogance. Kun, arrogance. But of course if Sadow was all powerful he would have lived forever, like the highlander.. That is ridiculous logic and a poor attempt to discredit Sadow and the ancient sith, as lightsnake always tries to do.
And another thing, where was it said that Kyle was a saber prodigy?

jollyjim311

Pretty much anywhere where the name Katarn is mentioned... You obviously know very little about him.

Anyway. It's safe to assume that Sadow was good, right? Now why in Hell is he ahead of the likes of Kyle, though? It begs for more proof than just: "'Cuz he's teh Ancient Sith!!1!!11!"

Look, if Sadow had uber force attacks, he would have used them. Maybe his amulet has no effect on force sensitives, maybe it takes some time to use, I don't know. The case and point is, that, if he could have used it, he would have. Now, if it's anything like when Kun used it, then, it would be more useful than throwing a single brick, right? And, Ludo couldn't block the brick, as we saw, so, why not use the amulet? There has to be a catch. Proof? Well, logic, but, if you want a little more, then:

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=243&page=17 Okay. See how it says the battle will go until one of them is dead? That means they're trying to kill each other. Do you understand what I'm getting at? I mean, they want each other dead... there's even an exclamation point in there.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=243&page=16 Okay. See how Sadow threw one stinking brick? Yeah, that's lame. He even uses a hand with the amulet on it. So? Couldn't he just point his hand and blow Ludo away instead of throwing one crappy brick? Apparently not. Now, until you provide proof of him doing something like that, I don't see why he can.

Darth Sexy

Gee did you ever think that Ludo had a defense for it? THat two powerful ancient sith lords COULDNT just blow each other away? Things would have been a lot more simpler if they could. And please don't say "If he could have he would", because we very well see his powers from Exar Kun, who could blow anyone away at will considering there was no defense for it from the Jedi. So to answer your question, no, he couldn't blow anyone away because the ancient sith had defenses for stuff like this, otherwise he could have just blown away Ragnos.

jollyjim311

Okay, well, he couldn't block a single brick, so I doubt he would be able to get his defences up in time to block an amulet blast. There's a reason Sadow didn't use his amulet. You tell me what it is.

Sith'ari

It could be argued that Ludo's amulet made him immune from any effect that Sadow's amulet could give.

jollyjim311

It could also be argued that it has no effect on force sensitives. It could also be argued that it would take Sadow a long time to use it. It could also be argued that Sadow wasn't powerful enough to use it. It could also be argued that it would also kill Sadow to use it...

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay, well, he couldn't block a single brick, so I doubt he would be able to get his defences up in time to block an amulet blast. There's a reason Sadow didn't use his amulet. You tell me what it is.

Uh same reason Yoda didn't block Sidious' lightning at first? Same reason Sidious didn't block Yoda's force push? Simple force attacks can be blocked, especially by the ancient sith. And why didn't he use his amulet? Probably because Kressh had a defense for it?

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by jollyjim311
It could also be argued that it has no effect on force sensitives. It could also be argued that it would take Sadow a long time to use it. It could also be argued that Sadow wasn't powerful enough to use it. It could also be argued that it would also kill Sadow to use it...

No it can't be argued that it has no effect on force sensitives, since the only "force based" part of the attack is the channeling through the amulet, after that it the beam isn't a force based attack. Not to mention it not working on force sensitives is speculation at best. Now, why would it take Kun no time at all and Sadow a long time to use his own invention? Hmm. Now, Sadow wasn't powerful to use his OWN CREATED AMULET? Come on jollyjim, you have to do better than that post.

jollyjim311

Look, if Ludo had a defence for it, it wouldn't really matter. He didn't have the time to get his defences up (seeing as how he was hit in the head with a brick). Now, seeing as how Naga has never used his amulet in a fight, and the best force attack he has demonstrated is throwing a single brick, why is he so uber?

About all those "It could also be argued..." things, yeah, they're all speculation, but, so is your theory of Ludo being able to block it. Mine are just as good, only... Ludo wouldn't have time to block it anyway, so... that one flops now doesn't it?

Sith'ari

Naga Sadow was also able to produce extremely impressive illusions.

Lightsnake

And skilled Jedi are able to dispel illusions easilym and disrupting Sadow's concentration ruins that. Moreover? Illusions aren't helping him at all

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And skilled Jedi are able to dispel illusions easilym and disrupting Sadow's concentration ruins that. Moreover? Illusions aren't helping him at all

Skilled Jedi could dispelle illusions such as Aleema. Sadow's illusions were on an entirely different level and it took a blast to his ship to stop them. And JollyJim I've already said this before, the ancient sith had defenses for the techniques they created, so it's logical to assume Kressh had a defense for Sadow, which is why they didn't blast each other.

jollyjim311

Oh okay.

Where exactly does it say that?

Darth Sexy

It has to say that? It has to say that they created defenses for their own techniques? Why? They created the techniques JollyJim, and if they didn't create defenses for it, you'd have certain sith running around blasting everything and killng everything. When the freemasons build buildings, first thing they do is create a secondary entrance for air and all that jazz.

jollyjim311

So, Sadow created this amulet, and then told everyone how to block its attacks? Gotcha.

jollyjim311

Also, other Sith Magic doesn't affect force sensitives (such as Kun's freezing the senate), so, why should the Amulet blast? Especially seeing as how when people had the opportunity to use the amulets in fights, they didn't.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Also, other Sith Magic doesn't affect force sensitives (such as Kun's freezing the senate), so, why should the Amulet blast? Especially seeing as how when people had the opportunity to use the amulets in fights, they didn't.

I just told you, the only force based part of the amulet blast is the channeling of anger. The beam itself is not a force attack, so it's not going to sway away from a force user. And you're right, Kun's sith spell didn't..How about Ragnos' scepter? That's sith Magic and it certainly affects everybody.

Sadow created the amulet, not necessarily the amulet blast. As masters of sith alchemy they created tools into which to channel and augment their darkside power/anger exponentially, meaning Sadow most likely wasn't the only one with the blast capabilities.

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
"If they were so great why were they wiped out"?
THanks for your incredible logic lightsnake.

You seem to think the Ancient Sith are the "l337 St4r W4r5 M4ast3rs 0f t3h Un1v3rse", and you really don't support them with anything concrete, and then you also skirt my actual post, and rant about one line. Great way to avoid the post, tdtd.

Curbstomped by a machine? Lmfao. As I can see, you're still making shit up. He was caught off guard by Vader while he was in the middle of pwning Luke. His apprentice for twenty some years turned on him, he didn't expect it. On top of that, he killed Vader anyways.

I see how ridiculous the comparison was. Palpatine was killed by a sneak attack, and had no clue what was going on. I mean, Dor-Gal-Ram was pwned by his own Massassi crew. Sylvar managed to own two of them with her bare hands. Real powerful, Ancient Sith.

Kun was wiped out by arrogance? No. As a living Kun released his own spirit, betrayed by his apprentice, and a spirit Kun was attacked by like twelve different apprentices, who already knew how to defend against him. And Palpatine - arrogance? Only arrogant to think his loyal apprentice for the past twenty years wouldn't turn on him. And in DE, he was killed by his own powers, because Luke and Leia used the power of the Lightside against him.

Apparently, you didn't read my post, as I figured. Read my post, it's clear from what he's done that he is a lightsaber prodigy, it's ridiculous to assume otherwise, given what we know.

Originally posted by Advent
Apparently this is DN Kyle Katarn, so what makes me think he would win? Har. I should be asking you how Sadow can stop him in direct combat. We know Kyle has at least nine years of battle experience compared to Sadow's...uh, defeat in the same year of going into war? He was in the GCW, and the YZ War. Experience does matter (case in point: Obi-Wan vs. Anakin), though it's not the end all, be all; it still accounts for something.

And really, Kyle is simply a lightsaber prodigy and master (like Ulic and Kun were). He defeated Desann, where Luke didn't (well, there was a reason for that though), and numerous other Dark Jedi. I mean, seriously, he defeated seven Dark Jedi in combat, including Jerec (who was a fully trained Jedi as well), without much training at all actually. And keep in mind that Jerec was trained by Sidious himself, and Vader. Kyle was the Battlemaster as well of the era. He was able to defeat Boba when working as a mercenary, and numerous other Imperial troopers. And also challenged Mara herself without any training still. I'd say he has far more combat experience than Sadow.

We've seen Sadow battle Ludo Kressh, that's about it. We know Kyle has defeated fully trained opponents while having little training, and now he's a lightsaber master, a Battlemaster at that with a lot of experience. I'd say he can defeat Sadow.

Not to mention, he's also got Mara Jade to help out. While I don't think she's much of a match for Sadow, she's a nice icing on the cake.

I'd give it to Kyle and Mara from what we know about them, and from what little we know about Sadow's actual power.

On top of that, I must be a psychic:

Originally posted by Advent
Of course, now I'll just have to wait for your "etc, etc, etc" reply.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I just told you, the only force based part of the amulet blast is the channeling of anger. The beam itself is not a force attack, so it's not going to sway away from a force user. And you're right, Kun's sith spell didn't..How about Ragnos' scepter? That's sith Magic and it certainly affects everybody.

Oh? Ragnos' scepter? The one that Jaden failed to kill Kyle with, and actually got pwned in the DS ending? Now, it's not necessarily the canon ending, but that doesn't mean he still can't do it if the situation arises.

Sith'ari

Kyle is also stated in one book to be the best saber dueler in the entire NJO, and he is outrught stated to be a prodigy many times.

Lightsnake

A blast to his ship? It was as simple as disrupting his battle meditation. And where was it stated the Ancients had these incredible defenses?

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
You seem to think the Ancient Sith are the "l337 St4r W4r5 M4ast3rs 0f t3h Un1v3rse", and you really don't support them with anything concrete, and then you also skirt my actual post, and rant about one line. Great way to avoid the post, tdtd.

Oh how cute, the kmc mentality is when one gets angry at me, refer to calling me tdtd. Way to go Sama, your anger is transparent. But I guess I'm "tdtd" when anybody is heated, that's nice.
I don't support anything I've ever said about the ancient sith? Interesting, so I guess next thing you'll say is I haven't made 1 argument my entire time being here. A humorous defense mechanism for anger. And yes, I skirt your actual post because it is 100% evident that by saying "Oh if theyre so cool how come they died", you're diminishing their abilities. Which is why I responded with an equally irrelevant and ridiculous post about Sidious(which coincidentally is very relevant in response to your ridiculous statement). No need to get angry Sama.

Curbstomped by a machine? Lmfao. As I can see, you're still making shit up. He was caught off guard by Vader while he was in the middle of pwning Luke. His apprentice for twenty some years turned on him, he didn't expect it. On top of that, he killed Vader anyways.

Yes I'm full of shit. Because I didn't state that the sith's only real weakness is arrogance. But apparently you can diminish the ancient sith's abilities and powers but when I do the EXACT same thing in the EXACT same context, I'm making shit up? Nice one Sama, you're on the ball today. So let me explain this again so you understand. Sadow and his crew were wiped out because of his arrogance, does that make him any less powerful? Sidious was wiped out because of his arrogance(twice), but do we diminish his abilities? Heavens no!

I see how ridiculous the comparison was. Palpatine was killed by a sneak attack, and had no clue what was going on. I mean, Dor-Gal-Ram was pwned by his own Massassi crew. Sylvar managed to own two of them with her bare hands. Real powerful, Ancient Sith.

oh but Sama, if Sidious was so powerful, he would have seen it coming!
In case you don't notice it, I'm doing exactly what you did to my statements, back to you. Yes, making excuses for certain characters and diminishing others. Except I'm doing it to prove a point while you're diminishing the ancient sith and making excuses for Sidious. A work of art.

Apparently, you didn't read my post, as I figured. Read my post, it's clear from what he's done that he is a lightsaber prodigy, it's ridiculous to assume otherwise, given what we know.

oh, so he was a lightsaber prodigy, that's nice.. Now you're going to quantify that how? Kun and Ulic were lightsaber prodigies too, so is Kyle=Kun or Ulic? And because we know very little about the ancient sith dueling abilities, they're automatically weaker? I suppose Tulak Hord was also a nobody just because he was mentioned as the "best", yet we know very little about him.

Oh? Ragnos' scepter? The one that Jaden failed to kill Kyle with, and actually got pwned in the DS ending? Now, it's not necessarily the canon ending, but that doesn't mean he still can't do it if the situation arises.

Gee Sama, I didn't know that what Tavion was using it for and what Jaden did to Kyle were the exact attacks! And I highly doubt non canon endings can be used in a debate. Now Kyle must be superior to all the planets Tavion drained if you believe Tavion and Jacen used the same exactly blasts. Then again, as you said it, DS endings mean nothing.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Lightsnake
A blast to his ship? It was as simple as disrupting his battle meditation. And where was it stated the Ancients had these incredible defenses?

It doesn't have to be stated lightsnake, I gave you an example of what the Freemasons do. If the ancient sith created techniques without defenses, they would be blowing each other up randomly.

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh how cute, the kmc mentality is when one gets angry at me, refer to calling me tdtd.

No, the "KMC mentality", as you call it, is when someone acts like a sock of a banned member, refer to them as said banned member.

Thanks for the evaluation, Doc.

With concrete evidence? No. More or less, you only make assumptions on their power. The only thing concrete is:

1.) Ragnos is the most powerful.
2.) Sadow and Kressh are the two most powerful under Ragnos.
3.) They were Sith magicians (however, we don't even know what they have).
4.) Some misc. things.

For this match, you haven't laid much down that can be applied. I, however, have; which you still are avoiding.

Defense mechanism? What am I getting angry about? It's just Star Wars, amigo. You're not making any good rebuttals, so I fail to see why I'd be mad.

Wow, td. If you noticed my entire post didn't even say that, other than one sentence. The rest was what you asked me to do, which was:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And you're only speculating Sadow would lose, unless of course you have definitive proof or even logical deduction that somehow the likes of Sadow and Kressh, who were 2nd in the apex of Sith power, are below the likes of Kyle? Come on..

Equally irrelevant? Do you need to check your glasses?

Originally posted by Advent
Oh wow, I didn't know I said that! Oh wait...I didn't z0mg!

I'm saying that while Sadow probably has the Force advantage, we haven't seen him use any Sith magic in a fight, and I'm not saying that he doesn't know it because he obviously does, but we don't know the Sith spells that he actually has. We have not seen him demonstrate any power of even with his amulets, and the only real display of power we saw him doing without his ship (which he doesn't have here obviously) was throwing a brick at Ludo's head.

I'm sure he can do what Aleema can do, but I doubt that's enough to actually defeat Kyle and Mara. Plus, Kyle could always use Mara as a sacrificial lamb for one of Sadow's force attacks, and then engage him in combat anyways.

Lmfao. A versus fight is basically entirely speculation. None of these fights' victors are cold, hard fact. Anyways, Kyle has done far more impressive things than Sadow. "Apex of Sith power"? Is that why they were wiped off of the face of the galaxy?

Please, you have no proof other than "l0l s4d0\_l_/ Dwn5 4ll! sauphcxuxncsd89 ANC1ent 51th ph4llu5!!///!ONEOIDH!".

Apparently this is DN Kyle Katarn, so what makes me think he would win? Har. I should be asking you how Sadow can stop him in direct combat. We know Kyle has at least nine years of battle experience compared to Sadow's...uh, defeat in the same year of going into war? He was in the GCW, and the YZ War. Experience does matter (case in point: Obi-Wan vs. Anakin), though it's not the end all, be all; it still accounts for something.

And really, Kyle is simply a lightsaber prodigy and master (like Ulic and Kun were). He defeated Desann, where Luke didn't (well, there was a reason for that though), and numerous other Dark Jedi. I mean, seriously, he defeated seven Dark Jedi in combat, including Jerec (who was a fully trained Jedi as well), without much training at all actually. And keep in mind that Jerec was trained by Sidious himself, and Vader. Kyle was the Battlemaster as well of the era. He was able to defeat Boba when working as a mercenary, and numerous other Imperial troopers. And also challenged Mara herself without any training still. I'd say he has far more combat experience than Sadow.

We've seen Sadow battle Ludo Kressh, that's about it. We know Kyle has defeated fully trained opponents while having little training, and now he's a lightsaber master, a Battlemaster at that with a lot of experience. I'd say he can defeat Sadow.

Not to mention, he's also got Mara Jade to help out. While I don't think she's much of a match for Sadow, she's a nice icing on the cake.

I'd give it to Kyle and Mara from what we know about them, and from what little we know about Sadow's actual power. Of course, now I'll just have to wait for your "etc, etc, etc" reply.

Your post was pretty much aimless bullshit, mine actually laid down things about Kyle. You were just too stuck on one line to see that, which is what I predicted your post to be "etc, etc, etc".

I know.

How can I diminish their abilities? What abilities are you even talking about? We have only seen Sadow drop a brick on Ludo's head, and stalemate him. And please, the Ancient Sith were wiped out in combat as well. Dor-Gal-Ram by simple Massassi. At Kirrek, etc.

Go ahead.

Except you've yet to actually tell me how he was "wiped out by his arrogance"? If thinking your loyal apprentice for the past twenty years is arrogant, that's pretty absurd. There wasn't any real reason to suspect Vader would do that.

When did I say that? When did I even say Sidious was powerful?

I actually haven't noticed you were doing the same thing, because when I type it - it actually means something. You are saying the Ancient Sith are Masters of the Universe, I'm saying that's bullshit, and Kyle will hand Sadow his ass.

How is it an excuse...? That's exactly what happened, you dolt.

Actually, given what we know about Kyle's history with a lightsaber, he probably is on par with Ulic. WTH do you mean "quantify"? Can you quantify Ulic being a prodigy? Nomi? No, you can't. Why don't you actually read my post about what Kyle has done, and maybe then you will understand. Until then, learn to read.

Hm, let me see here: because we don't know a lot about their dueling abilities, how in Buddha's name can we put them above Kyle? He's demonstrated far more skills even without any training, he's demonstrated skills with training, it's logical to assume he has more direct combat experience. So, how can we put Sadow above Kyle in terms of dueling when we know jack about his skills? Logic, the bane of the fanboy.

He probably was somebody, but he's a virtual unknown so we can't say that he'd beat anybody, or put him above anybody save for a Jedi youngling. There's nothing to dictate that he could beat someone, a little different with Sadow, who we actually have seen in work, and saw other Ancient Sith at work, too. We cannot use Tulak in a match, we can and do use Sadow, so we can decide the victor. Here, the victor is Kyle and Mara.

I guess The Exile is incapable of killing the Jedi Masters in KOTOR 2 simply because the Lightside ending is canon?

And still, I noticed your skirting the actual point. Will you actually make an argument for Sadow, instead of arguing against one line over and over?

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
No, the "KMC mentality", as you call it, is when someone acts like a sock of a banned member, refer to them as said banned member.

Just because you get angry at ANY and ALL rebuttals does not mean I'm acting like a "sock". Thanks for your opinion though I'll take it into consideration.

With concrete evidence? No. More or less, you only make assumptions on their power. The only thing concrete is:

1.) Ragnos is the most powerful.
2.) Sadow and Kressh are the two most powerful under Ragnos.
3.) They were Sith magicians (however, we don't even know what they have).
4.) Some misc. things.

For this match, you haven't laid much down that can be applied. I, however, have; which you still are avoiding.

Notice how this doesn't say "DN Kyle vs. Naga Sadow in a saber duel". It obviously means an all out duel, in which case there's not much I need to say except Sadow has his amulet and heavy sword. "But you have no proof that he can use this on a force user lol". Please... Unless Kyle is Yoda or Luke, he doesn't have much chance against a superior force user. "But we haven't seen him do anything LOL". Yes, he was 2nd only to Ragnos because he was good looking.

Defense mechanism? What am I getting angry about? It's just Star Wars, amigo. You're not making any good rebuttals, so I fail to see why I'd be mad.

The pattern on this forum is, if anyone gets angry with me, "i'm tdtd". So far the only person that hasn't taken the ridiculously immature and unsubstantiated route is Escape.

Your post was pretty much aimless bullshit, mine actually laid down things about Kyle. You were just too stuck on one line to see that, which is what I predicted your post to be "etc, etc, etc".
"But omg tdtd, I mean DS, Kyle beat 7 dark Jedi at once LOL". Yes Sama, because you can quantify the power of those 7 dark jedi in comparison to Naga Sadow, and because that's going to help Kyle "I was defeated by my student in an arbitrary DS ending" Katarn win an ALL OUT battle against the 2nd most powerful Ancient Sith.. Right..

How can I diminish their abilities? What abilities are you even talking about? We have only seen Sadow drop a brick on Ludo's head, and stalemate him. And please, the Ancient Sith were wiped out in combat as well. Dor-Gal-Ram by simple Massassi. At Kirrek, etc.

You seem to have a retarded assumptions that I think:
1. The Ancient Sith pwn all.
2. ALL the ancient sith pwn all.

When in fact I never "thought" that and I never "said that". In fact I stated that the likes of DN Luke would win over all of the ancient sith, and Yoda perhaps would also, so that would contradict your theory of my theory on #1.
In response to #2, I have always said that the most powerful sith were Simus, Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh, Hord, and Pall, in terms of "sith" or "ancient sith", because we know nothing about anybody else. They could have been better than the average jedi or they could have been purely incompetent. But thanks for putting words into my mouth, since you clearly are Cleo the psychic.

Except you've yet to actually tell me how he was "wiped out by his arrogance"? If thinking your loyal apprentice for the past twenty years is arrogant, that's pretty absurd. There wasn't any real reason to suspect Vader would do that.

How was Sadow defeated by his arrogance? Hmm.. Well I would say taking an outmanned, unready sith army, ALL of them rather, against a bigger, more dominant Republic. If that's not arrogance, then it's suicide, which stems from arrogance and incompetence.

I actually haven't noticed you were doing the same thing, because when I type it - it actually means something. You are saying the Ancient Sith are Masters of the Universe, I'm saying that's bullshit, and Kyle will hand Sadow his ass.

Never said the Ancient Sith are the masters of the universe, you're saying that I did, which means absolutely nothing because you can't show me where I've "said" it. And I'm saying Sadow is superior to Kyle in an all out battle, unless of course Kyle is uber leet and can throw an avalanche at Sadow and/or block his amulet.

How is it an excuse...? That's exactly what happened, you dolt.
Temper temper, psycho.

Actually, given what we know about Kyle's history with a lightsaber, he probably is on par with Ulic. WTH do you mean "quantify"? Can you quantify Ulic being a prodigy? Nomi? No, you can't. Why don't you actually read my post about what Kyle has done, and maybe then you will understand. Until then, learn to read.
"omgz I'm angry and i'm going to insult him to the best of my abilities to get my point across". Please Sama, your insults are humorous. Oh yes, Kyle is on par with Ulic.. Let me guess, Kyle is on par with Kun too? Or maybe Yoda? And I don't have to quantify Ulic being a prodigy in comparison to some others, because we have the one simple fact that he stalemated Kun, and did the same with Sylvar without the force.

Hm, let me see here: because we don't know a lot about their dueling abilities, how in Buddha's name can we put them above Kyle? He's demonstrated far more skills even without any training, he's demonstrated skills with training, it's logical to assume he has more direct combat experience. So, how can we put Sadow above Kyle in terms of dueling when we know jack about his skills? Logic, the bane of the fanboy.

Ah yes the fanboy personal attack. "OMg you don't agree with me youre a fanboy!". That's adorable Sama. I never said Sadow was about Kyle, but how is Kyle automatically about Sadow just because we know very little about his dueling abilities? Oh yes I forgot, if it's not directly stated, he must suck! Beautiful logic of the angry female. And notice how this thread again, isn't "Sabers only".

He probably was somebody, but he's a virtual unknown so we can't say that he'd beat anybody, or put him above anybody save for a Jedi youngling. There's nothing to dictate that he could beat someone, a little different with Sadow, who we actually have seen in work, and saw other Ancient Sith at work, too. We cannot use Tulak in a match, we can and do use Sadow, so we can decide the victor. Here, the victor is Kyle and Mara.

Kyle and Mara, in an ALL out fight? As in everything? Please..

I guess The Exile is incapable of killing the Jedi Masters in KOTOR 2 simply because the Lightside ending is canon?
Actually no, because what he did in the DS endings to all the Jedi, he did in the LS ending to Nihilus, which means he obviously has that ability, which means your point is moot.

kamikz

One thing DS, Kyle didn't loose against Jaden, he was clearly superior even though he was not trying. You can see Jaden stand there, his saber is not activated anymore, and he is breathing heavily, yet Kyle doesn't do shit against him. Then he picks up the scepter and flees....

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Just because you get angry at ANY and ALL rebuttals does not mean I'm acting like a "sock". Thanks for your opinion though I'll take it into consideration.

Show me where I've exerted anger. And, I suggest you should take it into consideration; although there's nothing to consider.

I did notice that, and I've also noticed you've yet to actually prove how Sadow will defeat either one of these two, even with the Force.

That's your argument? Okay then, here's mine:

Originally posted by Advent
Oh wow, I didn't know I said that! Oh wait...I didn't z0mg!

I'm saying that while Sadow probably has the Force advantage, we haven't seen him use any Sith magic in a fight, and I'm not saying that he doesn't know it because he obviously does, but we don't know the Sith spells that he actually has. We have not seen him demonstrate any power of even with his amulets, and the only real display of power we saw him doing without his ship (which he doesn't have here obviously) was throwing a brick at Ludo's head.

I'm sure he can do what Aleema can do, but I doubt that's enough to actually defeat Kyle and Mara. Plus, Kyle could always use Mara as a sacrificial lamb for one of Sadow's force attacks, and then engage him in combat anyways.

Lmfao. A versus fight is basically entirely speculation. None of these fights' victors are cold, hard fact. Anyways, Kyle has done far more impressive things than Sadow. "Apex of Sith power"? Is that why they were wiped off of the face of the galaxy?

Please, you have no proof other than "l0l s4d0\_l_/ Dwn5 4ll! sauphcxuxncsd89 ANC1ent 51th ph4llu5!!///!ONEOIDH!".

Apparently this is DN Kyle Katarn, so what makes me think he would win? Har. I should be asking you how Sadow can stop him in direct combat. We know Kyle has at least nine years of battle experience compared to Sadow's...uh, defeat in the same year of going into war? He was in the GCW, and the YZ War. Experience does matter (case in point: Obi-Wan vs. Anakin), though it's not the end all, be all; it still accounts for something.

And really, Kyle is simply a lightsaber prodigy and master (like Ulic and Kun were). He defeated Desann, where Luke didn't (well, there was a reason for that though), and numerous other Dark Jedi. I mean, seriously, he defeated seven Dark Jedi in combat, including Jerec (who was a fully trained Jedi as well), without much training at all actually. And keep in mind that Jerec was trained by Sidious himself, and Vader. Kyle was the Battlemaster as well of the era. He was able to defeat Boba when working as a mercenary, and numerous other Imperial troopers. And also challenged Mara herself without any training still. I'd say he has far more combat experience than Sadow.

We've seen Sadow battle Ludo Kressh, that's about it. We know Kyle has defeated fully trained opponents while having little training, and now he's a lightsaber master, a Battlemaster at that with a lot of experience. I'd say he can defeat Sadow.

Not to mention, he's also got Mara Jade to help out. While I don't think she's much of a match for Sadow, she's a nice icing on the cake.

I'd give it to Kyle and Mara from what we know about them, and from what little we know about Sadow's actual power. Of course, now I'll just have to wait for your "etc, etc, etc" reply.

Seriously, Sexy, get real, is this how you earned your Ph.D in Fanboyology?

When did I say that he couldn't use it on a Force user? Glad to know you're already jumping the gun, and making shit up. So you're telling me that you have to be either Luke or Yoda to defend against his amulet? That's funny, where was that stated to be a prerequisite exactly? What magnitude can Sadow even produce the blasts?

Probably. As well, we haven't seen him use any Sith magic, so we can't assume he uses unknown Sith spell x and y at Mara and Kyle, because we don't even know what x and y are.

Show me where I've exerted anger.

Loving the Straw man arguments.

One of those Dark Jedi was Jerec, who was trained by Sidious and Vader, they all were fully trained and Kyle and no training. He also took down Desann as well, where Luke hadn't. WTH do you mean "quantify"? The man plowed through seven elite Dark Jedi with little training. Can you quantify Sadow's power at all? Since you seem to absolutely love throwing the term out.

Given that you think Sadow > Kun, and given you seem to think Sadow will curbstomp everyone in their path - yes. Didn't you just say "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said".

Contradictory? Hm, I forgot you had a huge argument with Lightsnake that Exar Kun would beat Yoda, and think Sadow > Kun. And really, you're argument consists of this:

"amulet and heavy sword all that's needed to be said"
"He was second under Ragnos in THE apex of Sith power"
"Amulet"
"Amulet"
"etc, etc, etc"

That's really all the argument you've made so far, and I'm being serious. That implies you think he'd pwn Kyle and Mara with ease (as you say "Kyle beat Sadow in all out fight? Right" wink

. Kyle is a formidable opponent, and please you know I was exaggerating.

Thanks for making shit up again, when did I say that you think all the Ancient Sith own everyone? When I say "Ancient Sith", I'm only referring to the ones you listed, and Dor-Gal-Ram. So, I suppose when you say "the ancient sith created most, if not all, techniques used" - you're only referring to the ones listed? But when I say "Ancient Sith", it instantely means all of them? Get real, it's commonly accepted to say "Ancient Sith" and mean the aforementioned.

Okay, Sadow's incompetent then.

You imply that from your words. Do you understand that? "Amulet and heavy sword, that's all I need to say". That implies you think they are the king shit of the galaxy.

And I'm saying you:

You. Haven't. Proved. A. Damn. Thing.

So, cough up your argument.

Temper? Because I called you a dolt, I'm mad? Wow, you are a dolt. And psycho? Yes, because I'm a crazed lunatic. And still, didn't respond to my answer. That was what happpened.

When did I say that? Oh? More bullshit? I insult you with like ten words at most, and you say I'm insulting you to get my point across. I should be the one saying "please". I insult after I lay down my points. Something wrong with that?

Advent

Wow, that makes a helluva' lotta' sense. Congratulations, tdtd, you've proven jack shit as usual! I could say that I don't have to quantify Kyle being a prodigy in comparison to others, because we have the simple fact he defeated seven fully trained Dark Jedi, one trained by Sidious and Vader, being able to cut people off from the Force, and Jerec got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi while Kyle still defeated him with no real Jedi training at all. Or the fact he took down Desann. Glad, you still skirt the point, and have no clue what you're talking about.

Why thank you. I said "logic, the bane of the fanboy". Logic is your bane. I never said because you don't agree with me, you're a fanboy. I'm saying that since you say things like "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said" that you show common properties to a fanboy.

We've seen Kyle do more impressive things, and demonstrate his abilities without training, now he's fully trained, and still is a prodigy and now master. He's above Sadow for what he has done, you cannot say Sadow is above him, because he hasn't demonstrated jack, and you cannot "deduct" that Sadow is better, and because of that: Kyle is above Sadow. Since there is nothing you can do (logical deduction, quote, etc.) to prove that Sadow > Kyle, it stands.

When did I ever say it was "sabers only"? When did I say "he must suck"? I didn't? I would say quit making shit up, but it's the expected par when I debate with you. I could, of course, just say the same thing to you "notice how this thread isn't 'Force only'".

Sweet argument. Like, that's so solid. "Everything"? Yes, as in everything. Hell, you don't even know what magnitude Sadow can produce the blasts.

For Buddha's sake, just make a viable argument already.

That made no sense. In the DS ending, he kills them - I'm talking about him killing the Jedi Masters, not him draining their stuff.

jollyjim311

Kyle: Defeated seven dark Jedi at one time with very little training. The NJO's Lightsaber instructor and Battlemaster. Fought in both the Galactic Civil War and Yuzzahn Vong War. Defeated Jerec.

Naga: Best force attack was throwing a brick.

Advent

Simply put, but effective lol. laughing

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
Show me where I've exerted anger. And, I suggest you should take it into consideration; although there's nothing to consider.
The ridiculous insults, claims, etc.

Seriously, Sexy, get real, is this how you earned your Ph.D in Fanboyology?

uh ok, how old are you again?

When did I say that he couldn't use it on a Force user? Glad to know you're already jumping the gun, and making shit up. So you're telling me that you have to be either Luke or Yoda to defend against his amulet? That's funny, where was that stated to be a prerequisite exactly? What magnitude can Sadow even produce the blasts?

Its amazing how all of a sudden I'm a "fanboy who's making shit up". Let me ask this simple. Is there ANY proof whatsoever that Kyle can block his amulet blasts? I didn't think so. You're right, I can't determine what magnitude he can produce his blasts. However you can't argue that his blasts would be weak enough to do nothing to Kyle, nor could Kyle block them. Unless you're going to say that the creator of the amulet has no idea how to use the amulet, channel his rage into his own amulet, especially since he didn't exactly have to call upon the dark side for the amulet to work(natural selection part of Nai's explanation of the ancient sith).

because we don't even know what x and y are.

I never said Sadow is going to use a random sith spell. But also take into account that in DLOTS it was stated that "Sadow knew techniques beyond the Jedi". Take that for what it's worth.

Loving the Straw man arguments.
I'm glad you're loving the strawman arguments.. Really, I am.

One of those Dark Jedi was Jerec, who was trained by Sidious and Vader, they all were fully trained and Kyle and no training. He also took down Desann as well, where Luke hadn't. WTH do you mean "quantify"? The man plowed through seven elite Dark Jedi with little training. Can you quantify Sadow's power at all? Since you seem to absolutely love throwing the term out.

Ah I see, so these elite dark Jedi were powerful in comparsion to whom? So Kyle>Luke? I can use that term when you are fully incapatable of doing what I ask, and that is quantify the power of somebody in comparison to somebody else. Can I quantify Sadow's power? No, but you don't see me listing feat wars like "omgz Sadow blew up a sun", which is completely irrelevant. Sadow also created illusions that kill people, what is your point? Kyle defeated Jerec, Desann, and 7 dark Jedi who's powers are unknown when compared to somebody else, and he's all of a sudden >all the ancient sith except Ragnos? Lets also forget the scans in which Sadow and Kressh were fighting, where it was shown they were using incredible speed. Lets also forget Kressh breaking his sword in little pieces, so obviously the sith have no combat abilities and no strength right?

just say "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said".

Yet another lovely assumption. Let me the phrase you love to use so much. "Quit making shit up". And yes I think Sadow would be able to use his amulet against somebody with no defense, and again you can't show me a shred of proof of Kyle having any defense for it.

Contradictory? Hm, I forgot you had a huge argument with Lightsnake that Exar Kun would beat Yoda, and think Sadow > Kun. And really, you're argument consists of this:

"amulet and heavy sword all that's needed to be said"
"He was second under Ragnos in THE apex of Sith power"
"Amulet"
"Amulet"
"etc, etc, etc"

You're right Sama, being #2 in the greatest era of sith knowledge means nothing.. No really. Nor does having the ability and skill to channel and augment your force abilities to insane proportions.. Right? Lol. I would say it's a little better than "Omgz Kyle defeated 7 Dark Jedi, and Desann, he would totally pwn Sadow in saber and force abilities omgz".

That's really all the argument you've made so far, and I'm being serious. That implies you think he'd pwn Kyle and Mara with ease (as you say "Kyle beat Sadow in all out fight? Right" wink

. Kyle is a formidable opponent, and please you know I was exaggerating.

No, I simply stated that your logic of "well we haven't seen Sadow fight and Kyle did all of these cool things so he'll own Sadow", isn't necessarily accurate. I never said anything about ease, so stop making shit up. What I said however that Sadow would beat Kyle in an all out battle, involving saber combat, the force, etc.

Thanks for making shit up again, when did I say that you think all the Ancient Sith own everyone? When I say "Ancient Sith", I'm only referring to the ones you listed, and Dor-Gal-Ram. So, I suppose when you say "the ancient sith created most, if not all, techniques used" - you're only referring to the ones listed? But when I say "Ancient Sith", it instantely means all of them? Get real, it's commonly accepted to say "Ancient Sith" and mean the aforementioned.

I believe it was the "You think the Ancient Sith are the masters of the Universe" post. And if the ancient sith means only the 4 powerful ones, why are you listing useless characters such as Dor Gal Ram, hell why not include Shar Dakhan while you're at it.

Okay, Sadow's incompetent then.

Obviously.

You imply that from your words. Do you understand that? "Amulet and heavy sword, that's all I need to say". That implies you think they are the king shit of the galaxy.
But I thought I didn't say the Ancient sith pwn all? Isn't that what "king shit of the galaxy" means? Which is it Sama.

Temper? Because I called you a dolt, I'm mad? Wow, you are a dolt. And psycho? Yes, because I'm a crazed lunatic. And still, didn't respond to my answer. That was what happpened.
So far Sama, you have shown Kyle's lightsaber feats.. Congratulations. And this is going to help him win an ALL out battle huh? What exactly do you want me to prove? Sadow uses incredible power and speed with his saber, or he created an artifact that would possibly blow a hole through Kyle if he used it?

after I lay down my points. Something wrong with that?

No, nothing wrong with that. I do that all the time on this forum too, to get my point across. Pointing out the shortcomings of others is thrilling isn't it? Yet at the very end you have still yet to prove how Kyle would win in an ALL OUT battle.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
Wow, that makes a helluva' lotta' sense. Congratulations, tdtd, you've proven jack shit as usual! I could say that I don't have to quantify Kyle being a prodigy in comparison to others, because we have the simple fact he defeated seven fully trained Dark Jedi, one trained by Sidious and Vader, being able to cut people off from the Force, and Jerec got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi while Kyle still defeated him with no real Jedi training at all. Or the fact he took down Desann. Glad, you still skirt the point, and have no clue what you're talking about.

Uh ok "lightsnake"? Yet in fact you do have to quantify the 7 fully trained dark Jedi. Could they all take out Sidious, Vader, Kun, Yoda? Oh that's right, him defeating 7 dark Jedi says he is most likely quite good with a saber. Jacen Korr defeated a shitload of Dark Jedi or was it reborn, Tavion, Rosh, etc, so he>kyle or he>Sadow now? Interesting.. Oh wait, I think I got that point across. Unless of course 7 dark Jedi>a shitload of reborns, Tavion, etc?
Ah yes, the typical "Youre wrong Im right you have no idea what you're talking about" defense mechanism. So wait, Kyle>Luke now since he defeated Desann? Glad you know what you're talking about Sama.

Why thank you. I said "logic, the bane of the fanboy". Logic is your bane. I never said because you don't agree with me, you're a fanboy. I'm saying that since you say things like "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said" that you show common properties to a fanboy.

When in fact me saying he can blast Kyle away with the amulet, and that Kyle is unlikely to have a defense against it, is quite logical, not fanboyish, so just because you think it is, doesn't say anything.

We've seen Kyle do more impressive things, and demonstrate his abilities without training, now he's fully trained, and still is a prodigy and now master. He's above Sadow for what he has done, you cannot say Sadow is above him, because he hasn't demonstrated jack, and you cannot "deduct" that Sadow is better, and because of that: Kyle is above Sadow. Since there is nothing you can do (logical deduction, quote, etc.) to prove that Sadow > Kyle, it stands.

Well golly gosh Sama, let me guess. Because Kyle did X, Y, Z without training, he's going to be automatically doiny X x 100, Y x 100, Z x 100, with training? His feats are indeed above Sadow, but the only thing this will help him in is possible saber combat. Unless of course you're going to sit there and tell me I don't know what i'm talking about while spouting out crap such as "Kyle is superior to Sadow in the force". Notice how I didn't say you said that, but I'm going to assume you're going to say that, so I'm saving you the trouble of your "making shit up" ramble.

When did I ever say it was "sabers only"? When did I say "he must suck"? I didn't? I would say quit making shit up, but it's the expected par when I debate with you. I could, of course, just say the same thing to you "notice how this thread isn't 'Force only'".

Oh yes Sama, I make shit up when I argue. But of course you don't right? Why not quit living in your little fantasy world and accept the fact that we both assume things that are different than reality. It doesn't get funnier than reading hypocritical statements. And guess what Sama, there's only SO much you can do with a saber, the force is limitless. Unless of course, Kyle>Sadow in force abilities.

Sweet argument. Like, that's so solid. "Everything"? Yes, as in everything. Hell, you don't even know what magnitude Sadow can produce the blasts.

For Buddha's sake, just make a viable argument already.

I could say the same thing to you. "Omg Kyle defeated 7 dark jedi of unknown power and Desann, he would so own a powerful ancient sith in saber AND force combat".

That made no sense. In the DS ending, he kills them - I'm talking about him killing the Jedi Masters, not him draining their stuff.

Then why are you bringing up the dark side ending? He obviously doesn't kill the jedi masters so you're pretty much wasting text to prove nothing?

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
The ridiculous insults, claims, etc.

Again, I ask for specifics where I am angry. When I'm angry it goes like this: "Shut the f*ck up", usually vulgar language. So far, only I've said' quit making shit up", which may be vulgar, but doesn't display my anger.

Twenty. How exactly was that a childish insult? I doubt an eleven year old even knows what a Ph.D is, or even stands for.

Is there any proof Sadow can even make a blast on par with Kun's?

I didn't think so.

And here you are arguing about the blasts. It's possible the blasts are as strong as what Kun used on Aleema, which only knocked her down.

What? We don't even know what magnitude the blast is, it could be the same Kun used on Aleema as I've said.

Worth nothing, since we don't even know what they are. Sure, he's powerful, no denying that, but as you seem so fond to say to me "this isn't a 'Force only' match", and Kyle also tossed Jaden through an entire room with the Force, if I recall correctly.

So you're glad your committing a fallacy?

Incapable? You're asking me to do something virtually impossible. How the f*ck can I quantify their power?

Uh, feat wars? It's called combat experience, and reason to believe Kyle > Sadow. Sadow causing solar manipulations on the Dena rii Nova is irrelevant, because he used his ship. And, on top of all that, Kyle did this with little to no real Jedi training.

WTF is your point?

Well, let's see: considering Jerec was trained by Sidious himself and Vader, was a fully trained Jedi, considered to be one of the galaxy's biggest threats, and had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi and Kyle managed to defeat him with no real Jedi training, I'd say yes. He's not "all of the sudden greater", I don't see where anyone has said Sadow > Kyle in any past debates. And you've yet to actually prove how Sadow would beat Kyle in a swordfight, given what we know - Kyle would win.

Lol. Because there was motion blurs, they have greater speed than Kyle? Yes, Jedi also use a thing called "Force speed".

But wait, how could I forget? General Grievous killed Obi-Wa...oh no, he didn't despite Grievous slinging his lightsabers around like buzzsaws. WTF does them swinging a damn sword have to do with anything? Given that Jedi can use the Force to speed up their movements.

I forget. What does breaking his sword have to do with fighting? Oh, here it is - just came back to me - nothing. Who said they didn't have strength or combat abilities? Making shit up still?

They haven't shown us anything to compete with the likes of Katarn, and you can't deduct shit from their fights.

You see, the phrase only works when it's true. How am I making shit up? You did say "amulet and sword, all that's needed to be said". That is fanboyism, so quit making shit up about me making shit up.

Lying will not save you.

Against what? If you tell me the magnitude, I'll give you an answer. First of all, it's possible it could be the same size blast Kun used on Aleema, which only knocked her down. And second of all, I'll be you: "Lightsaber is all that needs to be said", how is Sadow going to beat Kyle? Jesus christ, you haven't given me a shred of proof for anything other than "bl4sts = d3ad ka4tarn". You forget Mara Jade is also here.

And? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Can you show me anything for Sadow defeating Kyle and Mara?

Given what else we know, and this:

Originally posted by Advent
Apparently this is DN Kyle Katarn, so what makes me think he would win? Har. I should be asking you how Sadow can stop him in direct combat. We know Kyle has at least nine years of battle experience compared to Sadow's...uh, defeat in the same year of going into war? He was in the GCW, and the YZ War. Experience does matter (case in point: Obi-Wan vs. Anakin), though it's not the end all, be all; it still accounts for something.

And really, Kyle is simply a lightsaber prodigy and master (like Ulic and Kun were). He defeated Desann, where Luke didn't (well, there was a reason for that though), and numerous other Dark Jedi. I mean, seriously, he defeated seven Dark Jedi in combat, including Jerec (who was a fully trained Jedi as well), without much training at all actually. And keep in mind that Jerec was trained by Sidious himself, and Vader. Kyle was the Battlemaster as well of the era. He was able to defeat Boba when working as a mercenary, and numerous other Imperial troopers. And also challenged Mara herself without any training still. I'd say he has far more combat experience than Sadow.

We've seen Sadow battle Ludo Kressh, that's about it. We know Kyle has defeated fully trained opponents while having little training, and now he's a lightsaber master, a Battlemaster at that with a lot of experience. I'd say he can defeat Sadow.

Not to mention, he's also got Mara Jade to help out. While I don't think she's much of a match for Sadow, she's a nice icing on the cake.

I'd say, it's not. You have one thing you parade around "amulet blasts", what the hell? To what power can he even use it? And also some advice: quit making a straw man argument.

Actually, it is. My logic is simple: facts. You're logic is simple, too: assumptions. Do you know which one wins? Facts.

Really now?

Those things imply that in an "all out battle" Sadow will definitely win. And seriously, Kyle > Sadow in saber combat. There's also Mara Jade, too for a sacrificial lamb. Unless, you're going to actually make a viable argument as to why Sadow is superior to Katarn in a swordfight, stop parading around saying "quantify, compare, O RLY, l0l, pwnage, heavy sword". Wow, heavy sword is all you need to say? All I have to say is "Kyle and a lightsaber pwns Sadow and a broadsword". Plus, the simple fact the amulet blasts could only be comparable to the one Kun used on Aleema.

Because Dor-Gal-Ram helped Kressh? And he was actually named?

Advent

Oh, I'm sorry. You imply it, despite you claiming they wouldn't own all, you still imply it heavily. Sadow > Kun? Lawls.

So far, Sexy, you haven't shown anything. Congratulations. You do though, like to say one word "amulet", so how is this going to help him in an ALL out battle, huh, where it's not just the Force?

How Sadow could ever dream to stop Katarn in a swordfight, and the magnitude of the blasts that Sadow can produce.

Or not even singe him (Aleema blast). I want you to prove the above, and specifically how Sadow could ever even dream of beating Kyle in a swordfight.

Hm, let's see. Say Sadow uses an amulet blast, Mara takes the sacrifice, Kyle engages Sadow in direct combat, and kills him. Kyle is - from what we know and can't deduct - Sadow's superior in a swordfight. Then again, there's still the matter of magnitude. If it's like the Aleema blast, or what Cay did to Nomi and Cay - how the hell will that stop Katarn? And yes, it is a possibility that's the most he can do.

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Uh ok "lightsnake"? Yet in fact you do have to quantify the 7 fully trained dark Jedi. Could they all take out Sidious, Vader, Kun, Yoda? Oh that's right, him defeating 7 dark Jedi says he is most likely quite good with a saber.

With little to no training while they were all fully trained Jedi. One trained by Sidious and Vader himself. Quantify the power of Vodo, quantify the power of Sadow compared to Ragnos, quantify the power of x, y, and z. Jesus christ, they are formidable opponents and Jerec is one of the galaxy's biggest threats. And yet Kyle slew them all with no training.

Glad, you're comparisons make no sense. Jaden Korr didn't fight the seven Dark Jedi, he fought the pawns. Jerec, Yun, Sariss, Boc, Pic and Gorc, and Maw are the seven Dark Jedi, they aren't just "some group of average DJs". They all were above the Dark Jedi that Jaden defeated, on top of that. If you want to use the gameplay (since you say "defeated a shitload" wink

Kyle defeated half an army of Dark Jedi himself without any real training. Your comparisons aren't correct, and plus Jaden was pwned through an entire room by Kyle anyways.

Defense mechanism? What the hell? You are the psycho here, Sexy, what are you talking about? You really didn't even know what you were talking about, and I showed you why, and yet you still say "defense mechanism". Good tactic I must say, using what you really are doing, and saying it's me.

Did I say that? z0mg!? No, I didn't! I never said Kyle > Luke. Glad to know you're still making shit up, Sexy. Hell, even in my original post I said there was a reason as to why Luke didn't defeat Desann. Also glad to know you can read, comprehend, and know what the hell you're talking about. Plus, just because he defeated Desann and Luke didn't, doesn't mean Kyle > Luke anyways. So, quit:

a.) Committing straw man argument.
b.) Making shit up.
c.) Talking out of your ass.

How is it logical? So, when I say Kyle engages him in saber combat - it's not logical? You clearly are mistaken. What magnitude is the blast again? Oh? You don't know? Well, "golly gosh", isn't that a surprise.

Wow, good job on being a psychic and still trying to weaken my argument. What he did without training was incredible, to assume he hasn't grown expotentially more powerful is ludacris. Plus the fact I never said "100x" more powerful, you dolt.

Quit. Making. Shit. Up. And. Trying. To. Weaken. My Argument. By. Doing. Such

But you still said it, and you still are pulling stuff from your ass. Why would you assume I'll say it? In my first post, I even said Sadow > Kyle in the Force probably.

I know.

Show me what I "made up" and tried to use as fact?

What? How is the Force "limitless"? We don't know if Sadow can use Force grip, lightning, and so on. We know he can drop a brick on someone's head. And WTF is the point of this really? If you're referring to the blasts,we don't know the magnitude. They could be comparable to the blast Kun used on Aleema. Furthermore, nothings definite, so stop treating it like such (i.e. "leave a hole in his chest" wink

Except I didn't say that, so stop trying to reformat my argument, and get a clue. Also, I've made an argument for Kyle being superior in saber combat, you haven't made a viable argument as to the:

a.) Magnitude of the blasts.
b.) How Sadow will even win.
c.) How Sadow could be close to Kyle in a swordfight.

That is the difference between my argument and yours.

Do you not understand? Are you saying that the Exile can't kill the Jedi Masters for sure, just because it was in the Darkside ending? That's what I'm trying to say, we've seen Katarn do it already, even though the ending isn't canon, it's ridiculous to assume just because the ending changed that he wouldn't be able to do it if the situation were to arise.

And really, here's the thing: you're acting like whoever has the superior power in the Force will win. That's not the case, and more often than not - they always engage in a sword battle anyways.

Sith'ari

'Is there any proof Sadow can even make a blast on par with Kun's?'

It's extremely likely that Sadow's blasts would be at least as powerful as Kun's because he firstly created the amulets and would thus know them inside out and secondly, he had decades to learn and master them. Kun's learning of them was clearly rushed (which has its pros and cons) and there's no actual evidence that he was even stronger in the force than Sadow.

Spartan ll

Kun:Froze entire Senate of millions of beings with minimal effort.Made Amulet blast so powerful,it destoryed/disintigrated one of Sadow's most deadliest and powerful Sithspawn,as well as dozens of Massassi Warriors.PWNed Vodo Siosk Baas,almost instantly.Was able to recover/learn a lot of Sith Alchemy in a very short amount of time.Destoryed the Spirit of Freedon Nadd with minimal effort.

Sadow:Chucked a brick at Ludo Kressh.

Yeah,I'd say Kun's a hell of a lot better than Sadow, given what we've seen.

And when the f**k are you going to answer my question in the 'Sion Force Storm' thread,Nebaris?

Advent

Originally posted by Sith'ari
'Is there any proof Sadow can even make a blast on par with Kun's?'

It's extremely likely that Sadow's blasts would be at least as powerful as Kun's because he firstly created the amulets and would thus know them inside out and secondly, he had decades to learn and master them. Kun's learning of them was clearly rushed (which has its pros and cons) and there's no actual evidence that he was even stronger in the force than Sadow.

Just because he built them , doesn't mean he would be able to produce a blast of the same size, since they are only meant to do three things apparently:

1.) Blasts.
2.) Destroy spirits.
3.) Project messages.

How would Sadow having a greater knowledge of the weapon mean he can produce the blast of the same size? Especially when it's only meant to do three things. Plus, just because a blacksmith built a sword, doesn't mean the smith is actually a good swordsman.

Sith'ari

What question?

@ Advent, true but he still likely had more time to learn t master them. Kun had less than a year.

Sith'ari

Wait... What just happened? Your post is different, but there's no 'edited by Advent' underneath it. Hmm...

Advent

I originally posted this:

Originally posted by Borbarad
Talking about Kun's situation: Sadow possibly needed years to figure out how to create his amulets. Kun figured out how to use them in the matter of seconds. So Sadow probably had a greater "theoretical" knowledge about the amulets but still he can't use them "better" as Kun because they just do what they do. That somebody has the know-how to build a rifle doesn't mean he's an excellent shooter.

And then changed it to my own version.

Sith'ari

Originally posted by Advent
Just because he built them , doesn't mean he would be able to produce a blast of the same size, since they are only meant to do three things apparently:

1.) Blasts.
2.) Destroy spirits.
3.) Project messages.

How would Sadow having a greater knowledge of the weapon mean he can produce the blast of the same size? Especially when it's only meant to do three things. Plus, just because a blacksmith built a sword, doesn't mean the smith is actually a good swordsman.

Much of that is true, but the amulets clearly have multiple functions and are pretty complex (the way they act as a gauge for the user to channel their hate and anger and strength in the force and then amplify it), much more so than a simple blacksmith's sword, so it would be logical that the creator would know it a little bit better than someone who has learnt it in less than a year in such a rushed way as Kun did, no matter how great his affinity was.

Advent

Originally posted by Sith'ari
Much of that is true, but the amulets clearly have multiple functions and are pretty complex (the way they act as a gauge for the user to channel their hate and anger and strength in the force and then amplify it), much more so than a simple blacksmith's sword, so it would be logical that the creator would know it a little bit better than someone who has learnt it in less than a year in such a rushed way as Kun did, no matter how great his affinity was.

Yeah, though, it's not a definite. Nothing is really, it could be as big as the blast he used on Aleema, or it could be the size of the one that destroyed the Sith Wyrm. Thing is, Sadow needed years to perfect the amulets, and develop them, and such. Exar Kun already had all of Sadow' teachings, so he doesn't need to go through the works of actually figuring it out, since he already has what Sadow has laid down.

Sith'ari

True. There's no real definite way of knowing.

Darth Sexy

Is there any proof Sadow can even make a blast on par with Kun's?
I didn't think so.

You're right Sama, it's more logical to assume Kun, who had a year to study Sadow's knowledge, is more capable of using a powerful blast than Sadow, who created the amulet and had his whole life to study sith magic/sith alchemy/force channeling.. Yes.... Right..

And here you are arguing about the blasts. It's possible the blasts are as strong as what Kun used on Aleema, which only knocked her down.

It is quite possible, even likely that the blast Kun used on the sith wyrm was different than the one used on Aleema. If you recall, Ulic had another amulet that created the same kind of non lethal blast.

Worth nothing, since we don't even know what they are. Sure, he's powerful, no denying that, but as you seem so fond to say to me "this isn't a 'Force only' match", and Kyle also tossed Jaden through an entire room with the Force, if I recall correctly.

Yes and Kyle>Jaden, we already know this, what's your point. I know this isn't a force only match, I'm stating that Sadow has the superior force knowledge.

Incapable? You're asking me to do something virtually impossible. How the f*ck can I quantify their power?

My point exactly. Those dark jedi could have have been powerful, or not powerful at all. The fact that you're basing Kyle's superiority over Sadow on mainly this fact, is the reason I brought this up.

Uh, feat wars? It's called combat experience, and reason to believe Kyle > Sadow. Sadow causing solar manipulations on the Dena rii Nova is irrelevant, because he used his ship. And, on top of all that, Kyle did this with little to no real Jedi training.

Kyle did what with little real training, blow up a star? What are you talking about? And combat experience means only so much. I could for example, the likes of Odan Urr or Vodo had more combat experience than Yoda, yet Yoda was more powerful. So my point again was, combat experience means only so much in an all out fight.

Well, let's see: considering Jerec was trained by Sidious himself and Vader, was a fully trained Jedi, considered to be one of the galaxy's biggest threats, and had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi and Kyle managed to defeat him with no real Jedi training, I'd say yes. He's not "all of the sudden greater", I don't see where anyone has said Sadow > Kyle in any past debates. And you've yet to actually prove how Sadow would beat Kyle in a swordfight, given what we know - Kyle would win.

I've yet to see anyone put Kyle above Sadow too. And I never argued that Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, I simply stated that you can't say Kyle>Sadow because of the lack of evidence on Sadow's saber fighting abilities.

No Sama if you read what I said you would quit making shit up. I said he showed great speed, PERIOD, not that it was greater than Kyle's. Talk about reading comprehension.

But wait, how could I forget? General Grievous killed Obi-Wa...oh no, he didn't despite Grievous slinging his lightsabers around like buzzsaws. WTF does them swinging a damn sword have to do with anything? Given that Jedi can use the Force to speed up their movements.

This probably goes into the earlier paragraph, but tell me something Sama. How many people have you seen use force speed in a lightsaber fight? I can only recall Luke and Sidious, who both were trained enough to use it without slicing themselves into little bitty pieces. Otherwise EVERYBODY would be using it no?

They haven't shown us anything to compete with the likes of Katarn, and you can't deduct shit from their fights.

In a saber fight? Perhaps not. If you're referring to overall, I guess them creating the massive force drain technique as one of their many abilities, means they couldn't compete with the likes of Kyle. In other words, you're full of ****. Like I said, it's a little different with saber combat because we DONT KNOW THEIR CAPABILITIES..

You see, the phrase only works when it's true. How am I making shit up? You did say "amulet and sword, all that's needed to be said". That is fanboyism, so quit making shit up about me making shit up.

Lying will not save you.

Neither will your lack of reading comprehension. Notice how I said that pertaining to this thread, meaning Sadow could possibly use his amulet and Kyle would most likely not be able to stop it.

Against what? If you tell me the magnitude, I'll give you an answer. First of all, it's possible it could be the same size blast Kun used on Aleema, which only knocked her down. And second of all, I'll be you: "Lightsaber is all that needs to be said", how is Sadow going to beat Kyle? Jesus christ, you haven't given me a shred of proof for anything other than "bl4sts = d3ad ka4tarn". You forget Mara Jade is also here.

Yes, I haven't given you a shred of proof in terms of lightsaber combat, and you haven't given me a shred of proof in force abilities.

Actually, it is. My logic is simple: facts. You're logic is simple, too: assumptions. Do you know which one wins? Facts.

Your logic is facts? Oh really Sama? Denial much? Kyle>Sadow=logical possibility. Sadow>Kyle in force abilities=logical possibility. I'm sorry to tell you that you don't have facts Sama, just assumptions, either logical or not. Unless you need me to look up the definition of fact for you. Kyle>Sadow=/cold hard irrefutable facts..Same goes with Sadow>Kyle. But please, if you wish to convince yourself that your logic=fact, go ahead.

Those things imply that in an "all out battle" Sadow will definitely win. And seriously, Kyle > Sadow in saber combat. There's also Mara Jade, too for a sacrificial lamb. Unless, you're going to actually make a viable argument as to why Sadow is superior to Katarn in a swordfight, stop parading around saying "quantify, compare, O RLY, l0l, pwnage, heavy sword". Wow, heavy sword is all you need to say? All I have to say is "Kyle and a lightsaber pwns Sadow and a broadsword". Plus, the simple fact the amulet blasts could only be comparable to the one Kun used on Aleema.

Reading comprehension fails you again. I never said Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, quit making shit up again. And you can say those amulet blasts could be comparable to the ones used on Aleema, or they could be on the quantity of the sith wyrm. Yet it's all speculation. Not to mention it's possible that Kun's blast on aleema was different than Kun's blast on the sith wyrm.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
Oh, I'm sorry. You imply it, despite you claiming they wouldn't own all, you still imply it heavily. Sadow > Kun? Lawls.

I fail to see how this is an implication of "Ancient sith pwn all" or "Ancient sith are the masters of the universe". "lawls"

So far, Sexy, you haven't shown anything. Congratulations. You do though, like to say one word "amulet", so how is this going to help him in an ALL out battle, huh, where it's not just the Force?

As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!

How Sadow could ever dream to stop Katarn in a swordfight, and the magnitude of the blasts that Sadow can produce.

I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.

Or not even singe him (Aleema blast). I want you to prove the above, and specifically how Sadow could ever even dream of beating Kyle in a swordfight.

You're assuming again that Sadow sucks because we haven't seen him. And I never said Sadow was superior to anybody in saber combat. I'm saying it' I-N-C-O-N-C-L-U-S-I-V-E. You automatically turn that into "kyle pwns". Kun never defeated 7 DJ at once, so Kyle>Kun?

Hm, let's see. Say Sadow uses an amulet blast, Mara takes the sacrifice, Kyle engages Sadow in direct combat, and kills him. Kyle is - from what we know and can't deduct - Sadow's superior in a swordfight. Then again, there's still the matter of magnitude. If it's like the Aleema blast, or what Cay did to Nomi and Cay - how the hell will that stop Katarn? And yes, it is a possibility that's the most he can do.

And yet we know that Sadow's own creation is triggered upon one's anger, so it is VERY LOGICAL to assume the angrier Sadow is, the more powerful the blast. Now unless Sadow is as angry as a cute little puppy dog, it's more than likely that his blast is more powerful than the one used on Aleema, at the very LEAST.

Sith'ari

The thing is, we know that Kyle was an exceptional duelist, and while it's possible that Sadow was leagues above Kyle in terms of swordsmanship (very very very unlikely), there is no proof that he is even close and logic dictates otherwise.

Darth Sexy

And again I was not arguing Sadow>Kyle in saber combat. We know nothing about Sadow's fighting abilities and we know a lot about Kyle's. So it's logical deduction+lack of evidence that points to this possibility. It's not a cold hard irrefutable fact.

Sith'ari

'And again I was not arguing Sadow>Kyle in saber combat. We know nothing about Sadow's fighting abilities and we know a lot about Kyle's. So it's logical deduction+lack of evidence that points to this possibility.'

Well why did you state that me saying that Kyle would likely beat him in a saber duel was the dumbest thing you've ever heard then?

Darth Sexy

I misread your statement, in a saber duel it is likely, in a force battle it is not.

Advent

No, I'm assuming Kyle will beat him, and it's likely he would anyways. I guess it's...

...I-N-C-O-N-C-L-U-S-I-V-E if Katarn can block the blasts or not then as well? Since we don't know if a Force barrier could block it, or if you can defend against it.

Kun actually has demonstrated his lightsaber ability, so a big "No" to that one. Try again. Insert 25 cents.

Uh, no? Because you don't even know what magnitude the blast will be in the first place, and by the time Sadow gets up to that size of a blast (if he even can) Kyle would've engaged him in saber combat. And you're still forgetting Mara can be used as a sacrificial lamb, and that the opponents are not a football field apart as you seem to think.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
No, I'm assuming Kyle will beat him, and it's likely he would anyways. I guess it's...

...I-N-C-O-N-C-L-U-S-I-V-E if Katarn can block the blasts or not then as well? Since we don't know if a Force barrier could block it, or if you can defend against it.

Considering there is nothing to suggest that Kyle can block it, and the attack itself isn't force based, it's more logical to assume that he CANT block it.

Kun actually has demonstrated his lightsaber ability, so a big "No" to that one. Try again. Insert 25 cents.

Oooo clever Sama, that wasn't corny at all.

Uh, no? Because you don't even know what magnitude the blast will be in the first place, and by the time Sadow gets up to that size of a blast (if he even can) Kyle would've engaged him in saber combat. And you're still forgetting Mara can be used as a sacrificial lamb, and that the opponents are not a football field apart as you seem to think.

You're right I don't know the magnitude of the blast, however I know the magnitude of the blast is dependant on anger and again, unless Sadow is like a cute little puppy, you can expect to be the blast as big as Aleema's at the very least. May I remind you how Sadow was surrounded by dark side energy when he got angry, or perhaps you should open up GAOTS again. And what in the WORLD makes you think there needs to be some kind of great distance for the amulet blast to be shot off? Notice how Kun was a foot or 2 next to Aleema before shooting her with a blast, so no Sama, contrary to your ridiculous assumption, I do not in fact think they are a football field apart. And for the record, the blast on the sith wyrm was blue, and the blast on Aleema was red, so if you want to blame the artist go ahead, but at the end it looks like a completely different blast, which begs the question as to how many different blasts, or other things can Sadow's amulet do?

And again, if you want to look like a fool by referring to me as "tdtd", you may do so. And if it really truly makes you feel better thinking that I'm somehow making a fool out of myself, when at the end we come to an agreement, then whatever helps you sleep well. I can just as well look like an idiot and keep referring to you as 'lightsnake', but I'm afraid you seem to have the 'spotlight' in that category.

Advent

As I can see, quoting, too, has now failed you.

Why? There's nothing that says it's impossible to defend against for one, and for two, we don't know if a Force barrier could withstand it or not.

And the blasts are described as "Dark side energies" btw.

Oh, nice way to avoid the fact your comparison was wrong even if the joke after it was "corny" (disgusting word anyways).

Actually, I'll blame you...for lying yet again:

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/5886/kunamulet23rbzs8.th.jpg

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2559/kunaleemablastmd4.th.jpg

You were saying? The one used on the Wyrm was a lighter shade of red (pink basically), not blue. Yes - huge difference there.

You actually can't call me "Lightsnake", because of a few minor things:

1.) You actually act like tdtd.
2.) You actually are tdtd.
3.) Lightsnake isn't banned.
4.) I debate entirely different from Lightsnake.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
As I can see, quoting, too, has now failed you.

Wow, no need to respond to that one, moving on..

Why? There's nothing that says it's impossible to defend against for one, and for two, we don't know if a Force barrier could withstand it or not.

Nobody said it was impossible but then again, you have no argument that even begins to state the possibility of the amulet blast being blocked or not. And again you seem to completely fail to comprehend the concept of the amulet blast. I'll try and simplify so even you can understand it. The blast itself is NOT a force based attack, it is a clear beam, so the only way to block that would be, as Nai stated, to take the dark side ability out of the amulet, which only Yoda has been known to do, so please don't try to argue" Well it's possible". Yea, it's possible that I can get into the NBA with my incredible 32 inch vertical and white ball handling skills..

And the blasts are described as "Dark side energies" btw.

Uh ok? That's great, what does that mean Sama? Could it be that it is a dark side power to channel your anger into an artifact? Hmmm.. No need to explain that one.

Actually, I'll blame you...for lying yet again:

You were saying? The one used on the Wyrm was a lighter shade of red (pink basically), not blue. Yes - huge difference there.

Lying? No, I thought there was a blue blast but I just looked in the comic. That's hardly lying, and I forget where I lied ever? But you're good at making shit up so...

You actually can't call me "Lightsnake", because of a few minor things:

1.) You actually act like tdtd.
2.) You actually are tdtd.
3.) Lightsnake isn't banned.
4.) I debate entirely different from Lightsnake.

1. Idiotic assumption
2. Even more idiotic
3. Ok...
4. Aside from your constant temper tantrums, insignificant personal attacks and poor attempt at humor? Hmm..

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Wow, no need to respond to that one, moving on..

It wasn't even a response to anything you said, so yeah - move on.

That made no sense, so explain.

And? You have no argument that it's impossible to block, so how does that work?

Lmfao. I've argued about the amulet blasts far more than you have when I used to favor Exar Kun.

What kind of an attack is it then? Force attacks have been shown to be blocked, non Force attacks have been shown to be blocked (Tott Donetta blocked blaster fire from a ship), and apparently there was a defense for it as I didn't see Sadow blowing all the Ancient Sith to smithereens, did you?

Maybe if you practiced? You know what that is, right?

Lmfao. Quit using my own phrase, and quit making shit up. Do I need to show you were you've made shit up? There's about five or six (probably more).

1.) You do act like tdtd ("I'll read that novel in a minute", saying "irrelevant misdirection" when it's not, etc. trying to act like you won the argument, but in fact, you've proven nothing).
2.) You are tdtd, so I fail to see how it's idiotic.
3.) Yes, as you can see, I'm accusing you of being a sock. You can call me "Lightsnake", but it doesn't really mean anything; actually it's a compliment, Lightsnake handed you your ass on the Exar Kun vs. Yoda thread.
4.) Show me where I've thrown a "temper tantrum", since you love to say I do it. I only personally attack you after the fact I give a response, which I fail to see how that somehow means I'm Lightsnake when even people like IKC, Sorgo (especially), and the like have done it.

Also, I'm glad you still skirt the main entries of my post, and go for the ones that really don't matter:

Originally posted by Advent
It created a lethal blast, I doubt it was the same blast though:

http://img350.imageshack.us/img350/9600/ulicamuletmz1.th.jpg

The one Kun used on Aleema was similiar in color to the one he used on the Wyrm, and was also shot like a projectile:

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1195/kunaleemablastca6.th.jpg

Didn't I already explain the seven Dark Jedi were powerful? They are not the "average" Dark Jedi, or Reborns. They are the Seven Dark Jedi. Jerec was trained by Lord Vader, Jocasta Nu, and Sidious himself. He was also capable of cutting people off from the Force ("Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to The Force" wink

, was a fully trained Jedi, he had a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when he fought Kyle, and Qu Rahn had said this:

"If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

And Jerec did get a boost from the Valley of the Jedi when fighting Kyle, yet Kyle still defeated him even with no real training. And, Jerec was also viewed as one of the galaxy's biggest threats.

He also defeated six other fully trained Jedi. Boc, who used dual lightsabers, and used an unorthodox style. Pic and Gorc, who were described as: "Pic is the energy and Gorc, the counter. They are the clashing balance of opposites: one, the voice; the other, the body. This combination is deadly."

Sariss, who was also a master in lightsaber combat, "Out of all the Dark Jedi I have met, Sariss is the one I can say I fear. Powerful, strong in both the physical and mental arenas of the Force, she is a master, a perfectionist, quiet and reserved. This makes her a very dangerous foe."

Yun, who was young and somewhat inexperienced, but nonetheless powerful, "These elements make him a dangerous and unpredictable foe." Then you have Maw, who's only half a body anyways, lol, but is still described as a "strong and formidable foe".

So, it would seem that the seven Dark Jedi Kyle faced weren't average, and were all described as being powerful. We know Jerec is the most powerful out of all of them, and still Kyle beat him.

I meant for that to go in front of Sadow blowing up a star. As to say Kyle beat Jerec and the others with little training.

There's a difference. I'm talking about direct combat experience, i.e. fighting with a sword. And Odan Urr, apparently, only fought with the Force (stripping people of it, BM, etc.), and Vodo trained students for 600 some years. Yoda trained students as well, but probably had more sparring matches than Odan.

Anyways, the point was: I doubt Sadow has taken on as many opponents in a duel as Kyle has, while you're right, it doesn't account for everything, it does mean something. Kyle also has experience dealing with unorthodox fighting, and the like. Either way though, it does give him an edge, even if it's little.

So, because I misread it - we should talk about reading comprehension? Well, if that's the case, we need to get you immediate help.

Actually, you're wrong. Kyle used Force speed twice, if I remember correctly, once when Luke was testing him for something, and the other to escape a bounty hunting droid (or something like that) on Nar Shaddaa.

Good for me, I'm not referring to overall.

In other words, I wasn't talking about overall, so pull your head out of your ass. And that was only Ragnos' sceptor, so "their abilities"? No, more like "his ability".

Your point? I mean how the hell would we know their saber capabilities? Sadow doesn't even use a saber. And really, what are you trying to argue? From what Kyle has demonstrated, it's clear he'd probably kill Sadow in a swordfight, likewise it's probable Sadow > Kyle in the Force.

Oh god, reading comprehension? Hah. Anyways, I called you a fanboy. How the hell does my reading comprehension have an influence on that? You said "amulet and sword, all needed to be said", that is fanboyish, whether you say it here or anywhere else, especially considering what we know of Katarn.

Uh, what? He threw Jaden through an entire room, cut Jerec off from the Force (IIRC), and you still haven't shown me what magnitude the blasts are for definite.

Yes, as much as you'd love to think that: no.

Oh? Did I say that? No? Quit making shit up. I never said that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber abilities. I simply asked you to make an argument for how Sadow could stop Katarn in a lightsaber duel.

Also the fact you said "amulet and heavy sword, all that's needed to be said" kind of implies that Sadow > Kyle, but anyways that's not the point. The point was I only asked you to make a viable argument for how Sadow can stop Katarn.

Exactly, not is definite, so you cannot just say "z0mg katarn gets h0le in ch3st". That's the entire point.

Straw man. And I never said "everything", you dolt, I said the opposite actually:

God, tdtd, do you love looking like an idiot or something? Logical fallacy, and you didn't even get it correct!

Same as above basically. Straw man, plus I never said that he sucks in swordfighting. I said that Kyle - from what we know - is superior. How does that mean he sucks against everyone in swordfighting? Oh? It doesn't? As usual, quit making shit. You cannot say "it's inconclusive, so we must rely on a Force battle" as you seem to be doing with constant talk of Sadow > Kyle in the Force.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent

And? You have no argument that it's impossible to block, so how does that work?

No Sama, there is nothing to suggest that the amulet blast could be blocked, especially from Kyle. I'm sure you'd love to make a case for Kyle but there's just nothing even remotely close to him being able to block it.

What kind of an attack is it then? Force attacks have been shown to be blocked, non Force attacks have been shown to be blocked (Tott Donetta blocked blaster fire from a ship), and apparently there was a defense for it as I didn't see Sadow blowing all the Ancient Sith to smithereens, did you?

Ok? lol. "non force attacks have shown to be blocked so this must be able to be blocked too!" When you can show me how Kyle is going to block an amulet blast, I'll take you seriously.

Maybe if you practiced? You know what that is, right?
Stay on topic.

Lmfao. Quit using my own phrase, and quit making shit up. Do I need to show you were you've made shit up? There's about five or six (probably more).

Oh yes Sama, you invented "Quit making shit up"! And yes show me where I'm making shit up, and I'll show you when you do the exact same with your baseless assumptions/accusations/stupidity.

1.) You do act like tdtd ("I'll read that novel in a minute", saying "irrelevant misdirection" when it's not, etc. trying to act like you won the argument, but in fact, you've proven nothing).
2.) You are tdtd, so I fail to see how it's idiotic.
3.) Yes, as you can see, I'm accusing you of being a sock. You can call me "Lightsnake", but it doesn't really mean anything; actually it's a compliment, Lightsnake handed you your ass on the Exar Kun vs. Yoda thread.
4.) Show me where I've thrown a "temper tantrum", since you love to say I do it. I only personally attack you after the fact I give a response, which I fail to see how that somehow means I'm Lightsnake when even people like IKC, Sorgo (especially), and the like have done it.

1. Show me where I used the specific logical fallacy incorrectly, until then quit making shit up. When I win an argument I win an argument, just because you think or state that I have proven nothing, means absolutely nothing. But for amusement please show me where I did this.
2. I see only 1 idiot an that is the one who constantly refers to me as "tdtd".
3. Yes, Lightsnake handed my ass, please show me this. If I recall it was Nai that thoroughly hammered me, and rightfully so, and lightsnake had nothing to do with this. But again for the sake of amusement, show me where I got hammered.
4. I'm confused, if you use a personal attack BUT you do it after youve given a response, that's a justification for it NOT being a personal attack? Should I look up the definition of a personal attack for you Sama?

In the end, you claim I make shit up, constantly ***** about my so called fallacies, and beg me to make a viable argument while I:

1. Never claimed Sadow>Kyle in lightsaber combat
2. Only said that Sadow's abilities were inconclusive
3. Have given you some proof as to why the amulet could and would work from any distance
4. Waiting on your proof about Kyle's magical ability to block an amulet blast.

So tell me Sama, if you DONT make shit up, then why beg me to make a viable argument for something I don't disagree with you on? Interesting concept.

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No Sama, there is nothing to suggest that the amulet blast could be blocked, especially from Kyle. I'm sure you'd love to make a case for Kyle but there's just nothing even remotely close to him being able to block it.

WTF? What is there to say they are impossible to block? As far as I know, there's nothing, so how the hell can I make a case about something we don't know.

When you show me you are capable of reasoning skills, admit your tdtd, get a clue, and stop committing a straw man - then I'll take you seriously. Just because you don't take me seriously (and I can hardly see what that matters), doesn't mean my argument is incorrect.

Anyways, I didn't say it could be blocked because non Force attacks have shown to do that. Here, I'll show you what I said in an increased font, just in case though, put on your spectacles - I don't want you to continuously make up bullshit:

Originally posted by Advent
What kind of an attack is it then? Force attacks have been shown to be blocked, non Force attacks have been shown to be blocked (Tott Donetta blocked blaster fire from a ship), and apparently there was a defense for it as I didn't see Sadow blowing all the Ancient Sith to smithereens, did you?

Instead of answering my initial question, you pick out one line and claim I say that because of said line, it can be blocked. Stop doing that kind of stuff. That is what I'm talking about when I say "quit making shit up", not necessarily making stuff up about Sadow's powers, but about my argument.

Sure thing, no problem:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!"

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.

There's more, but the thing is, as I've already told you, you keep making shit up, and acting as if I said it, when - in fact on several occasions - I said the complete opposite. And accusations aren't making shit up when I have reasonable cause to believe you're tdtd.

1.) Just read the damn Exar Kun vs. Yoda thread, my god.
2.) I'm guessing you don't have a mirror. Figures, you don't have a lot of things. A clue would be one of them.
3.) See for yourself.
3.) Actually, you don't need to look it up, I don't substitute an attack for an argument, and if anything my insults are only something like "you dolt", I never said stuff like "you're tdtd, so I don't believe your arguments can be taken into consideration", I do make the point, then call you tdtd, though. Possibly ad hominem to a degree, but hardly acceptable as such.

1.) Never said you did, I asked you to dismiss that.
2,) So, why the hell are you arguing for him then?
3.) You didn't give me shit as to why they would work other than "it's not a Force attack, therefore it's unbreakable" or "it can only be drained by Yoda". Which the latter is bullshit, because apparently the Ancient Sith didn't pwn each other with the amulets, and there's no actual proof that's the only way to stop it.
4.) How can I prove or disprove something we don't know at all? Simple: we can't. You cannot prove for certain it's unbreakable, I cannot prove it can be blocked.

Uh, you still make shit up in an attempt to weaken my argument, you don't agree with me on everything clearly. So, WTH are you talking about?

Anyways, I do apologize for insulting you (even though I did it in this very same post), and the like, so can we continue this argument civilly, and not like pirates?

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
WTF? What is there to say they are impossible to block? As far as I know, there's nothing, so how the hell can I make a case about something we don't know.

No, you are supposed to make a case about KYLE blocking them through logical deduction(which you haven't and you can't)

When you show me you are capable of reasoning skills, admit your tdtd, get a clue, and stop committing a straw man - then I'll take you seriously. Just because you don't take me seriously (and I can hardly see what that matters), doesn't mean my argument is incorrect.

1. The word is you're.
2. Nobody said your argument in saber duels is incorrect, so in your own words, stop making shit up unless you want to look like a hypocrite who makes baseless accusations.

This is how it looks, tell me which one YOU think is ridiculous
Me: Prove Kyle can block the amulet blasts
You: Prove Kyle CANT block the amulet blasts
^decide for yourself.

There's more, but the thing is, as I've already told you, you keep making shit up, and acting as if I said it, when - in fact on several occasions - I said the complete opposite. And accusations aren't making shit up when I have reasonable cause to believe you're tdtd.

I'm glad your reasonable cause constitutes as a cold hard irrefutable fact..

2.) I'm guessing you don't have a mirror. Figures, you don't have a lot of things. A clue would be one of them.
3.) See for yourself.
3.) Actually, you don't need to look it up, I don't substitute an attack for an argument, and if anything my insults are only something like "you dolt", I never said stuff like "you're tdtd, so I don't believe your arguments can be taken into consideration", I do make the point, then call you tdtd, though. Possibly ad hominem to a degree, but hardly acceptable as such.

1. I have.. And maybe you should put on your spectacles because I don't see any kind of pwnage til Nai gets there, to which I will concede defeat.
2. Oh no, another joke. "Omgz like get a clue". That's adorable Sama, really. What's next Sama? A "burn" joke? A "pwnage" joke? Keep them coming, they're extremely relevant to the debate, no really. Not to mention they are both original and intelligent.
3. You can't possibly still be on this subject.

1.) Never said you did, I asked you to dismiss that.
2,) So, why the hell are you arguing for him then?
3.) You didn't give me shit as to why they would work other than "it's not a Force attack, therefore it's unbreakable" or "it can only be drained by Yoda". Which the latter is bullshit, because apparently the Ancient Sith didn't pwn each other with the amulets, and there's no actual proof that's the only way to stop it.
4.) How can I prove or disprove something we don't know at all? Simple: we can't. You cannot prove for certain it's unbreakable, I cannot prove it can be blocked.

2. I am NOT arguing that Sadow>Kun in a saber duel. Please quit telling me to put on my super spectacles when you are having trouble reading yourself. I simply said that Sadow's saber abilities are inconclusive and you can't simply say Kyle>Sadow because of that. You did provide some good reasoning which would have to do because we have nothing else to work with in Sadow's case.
3. How many times must I tell you. They created the technique so they must have created a defense for it. For all we know Sadow wears 2 amulets and so does Kun, 1 for the blast 1 for a defense. This is just an assumption. My point is NOT that there might be a defense for it, my point is there's no logical reason to believe KYLE has a defense for it, and I'm sure you agree.
4. Has it ever been stopped? No. That doesn't mean it's unbreakable but this forum loves the absence of proof theory. Now, is there any logical reason to believe Kyle can block it? None whatsoever.

Uh, you still make shit up in an attempt to weaken my argument, you don't agree with me on everything clearly. So, WTH are you talking about?

Do tell me what I'm making up.

Anyways, I do apologize for insulting you (even though I did it in this very same post), and the like, so can we continue this argument civilly, and not like pirates?

At the end of the day we're still cool.

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, you are supposed to make a case about KYLE blocking them through logical deduction(which you haven't and you can't)

What the hell? There is nothing that even says they are unstoppable!

1.) Wow, thank you for the lesson, grammar policeman. You should've put the word, "you're", in quotes.
2.) What the hell am I making up? I'm talking about everything I've been saying, not just the saber duel. So, tell me, how that's "hypocritical" when you still are trying to weaken my argument by saying stuff I didn't exactly say.

Darth Sexy: Prove the amulet blasts can be blocked.
Motoko: How can I prove something we don't know?

That's more or less how it is. How the hell can I prove something we don't know for sure? You do not know if they can be blocked, I do not know if they cannot be blocked, and there's no evidence to suggest either. Tell me how Force attacks can be blocked, non Force attacks can be blocked, but an attack (of which you've yet to classify as I asked you) cannot be blocked whatsoever by another Force user?

Um, did I say it was? If I have a reasonable cause, it doesn't make it a baseless accusation.

1.) Whoops. Misread, disregard statement.
2.) And your point to this response was what?
3.) I can't possibly still be on this subject? We never even left it.

Put your super spectacles on, old chap. You need to realize what I'm talking about, you say that Sadow will win because he is the superior Force user, how is that any different from me saying Kyle is the superior duelist, ergo he'll win?

Alright then.

What the hell? Why is it illogical to assume Kyle has a defense? Since when was he the uber weakling of the the saga? He never was, and never will be. Now, please, tell me exactly how a Force barrier won't be able to stop it. Tell me how Force attacks can be blocked, non Force attacks can be blocked, but an attack (of which you've yet to classify as I asked you) cannot be blocked whatsoever by another Force user?

Has it ever been tested against a living, breathing Force user? No, so how the hell can you conclude it's unstoppable just because the only thing we've seen it terrorize is a Sith Wyrm, and Massassi.

So, because Aleema didn't block it, it's unbreakable...?

We've seen Kyle demonstrate great defense, he did defeat Jaden while he had Ragnos' sceptor, he did defeat Jerec while he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi, and so on.

I already did, but I guess your spectacles still need an adjusting, ol' chap:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!"

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.

Basically you make shit up about my arguments in an attempt to weaken them, not necessarily anything about Sadow himself as I already said.

Of course.

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
What the hell? There is nothing that even says they are unstoppable!

1.) Wow, thank you for the lesson, grammar policeman. You should've put the word, "you're", in quotes.

I aim to please.
2.) What the hell am I making up? I'm talking about everything I've been saying, not just the saber duel. So, tell me, how that's "hypocritical" when you still are trying to weaken my argument by saying stuff I didn't exactly say.

Darth Sexy: Prove the amulet blasts can be blocked.
Motoko: How can I prove something we don't know?

That's more or less how it is. How the hell can I prove something we don't know for sure? You do not know if they can be blocked, I do not know if they cannot be blocked, and there's no evidence to suggest either. Tell me how Force attacks can be blocked, non Force attacks can be blocked, but an attack (of which you've yet to classify as I asked you) cannot be blocked whatsoever by another Force user?

No Sama, I'm asking you to prove Kyle even has the slightest possibility to block the amulet blasts. Nai had no problem proving that Yoda could possibly do the same thing, so I'm sure you could provide some kind of logical deduction here.
On another note, I highly doubt an attack of Kun's magnitude could be blocked at all. Attacks smaller could possibly be blocked by Yoda and Luke, but not that initial one.

1.) What? So, you will only admit defeat when Nai hands you your ass? Glad to know you admire him so much, but nevertheless, just because you won't admit defeat, doesn't mean you aren't already defeated.
2.) And your point to this response was what?
3.) I can't possibly still be on this subject? We never even left it.

Nai effectively handed my ass to me, you haven't. Because you keep arguing as to why Kyle>Sadow in saber combat, and you fail to realize that I do NOT disagree, so why are you bothering? I'm arguing for Sadow>Kyle in a force battle. So I fail to see how I am defeated.

Put your super spectacles on, old chap. You need to realize what I'm talking about, you say that Sadow will win because he is the superior Force user, how is that any different from me saying Kyle is the superior duelist, ergo he'll win?

Omg, where did I say Sadow WILL win because he's the superior force user! WHERE! I said that Sadow>Kyle in force abilities, and because saber duels have limits and the force doesn't, it is MORE LIKELY Sadow would win.

What the hell? Why is it illogical to assume Kyle has a defense? Since when was he the uber weakling of the the saga? He never was, and never will be. Now, please, tell me exactly how a Force barrier won't be able to stop it. Tell me how Force attacks can be blocked, non Force attacks can be blocked, but an attack (of which you've yet to classify as I asked you) cannot be blocked whatsoever by another Force user?

Where is the logical deduction for Kyle being able to possibly block the blast? We know DE Luke has blocked a very powerful AT-AT blast, and that wasn't even in his prime, so we could make a case for him. We know Yoda could disarm the darkside in certain artifacts so we can make a case for him. How in the HELL are you going to make a case for Kyle blocking an amulet blast? Lets say I force push you, you can block that right? Lets say I shoot a laser beam at you, or drop a nuke on you(weird example but works), are you going to be able to block that? Not to mention there is no evidence of Kyle being able to disarm it or even block it.

Has it ever been tested against a living, breathing Force user? No, so how the hell can you conclude it's unstoppable just because the only thing we've seen it terrorize is a Sith Wyrm, and Massassi.

Dear lord Sama, the attack itself is an energy beam. Just a Sith Wyrm? So you're saying any Jedi could take on a monsterous sith alchemic beast? It's quite unstoppable because it blasted anything in its path, and if it ISNT unstoppable(I don't see how it isnt, at least not Kun's initial blast), there's no reason to believe Kyle can do it.

So, because Aleema didn't block it, it's unbreakable...?

No, Aleema is a weak sorceress with nothing but sith illusions up her sleeve.

We've seen Kyle demonstrate great defense, he did defeat Jaden while he had Ragnos' sceptor, he did defeat Jerec while he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi, and so on.

That's a little different than a beam shooting at you isn't it? The defenses you are displaying are irrelevant in this matter. Not to mention the DS ending is useless, and it's not like Jaden becomes superhuman just by holding Ragnos' scepter.

Basically you make shit up about my arguments in an attempt to weaken them, not necessarily anything about Sadow himself as I already said.

I'm still waiting for you to show me what and where I'm making shit up.

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I aim to please.

Clearly not a good job done on that, but whatever.

2.) Holy sh*t! I can't believe you just said I was weakening your argument by saying stuff you didn't say. That's exactly what you've been doing to me, and I already showed you three times. Now, I'll show you again:

EDIT: Oh wait, you didn't even quote what I said at #2, lol. I knew it looked familiar.

What? Nai said Yoda can drain absorb the energies out of the amulet, are you saying that's the only defense for it? Especially given we don't even know if it can, or cannot be blocked.

Kun's magnitude. Keyword is "Kun's".

Again I say, how is you saying Sadow will win because he's superior in the Force any different from me saying Kyle will win because he's superior in dueling? The Force is limitless? Bullshit, you cannot sit there and use Force lightning all day long on someone.

You agree Kyle > Sadow in saber abilities, right? And so far, you're only arguing Sadow will annihilate Kyle with the amulet blasts, or some other kind of shit:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Kyle and Mara, in an ALL out fight? As in everything? Please..
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
that somehow the likes of Sadow and Kressh, who were 2nd in the apex of Sith power, are below the likes of Kyle? Come on..
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Kyle alone could defeat Sadow? LOL...Sadow would curbstomp these two like sorority sluts during initiation.

Yeah, "curbstomp these two like sorority sluts during initiation" is really equivalent to "most likely".

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4827/tottblock8jsft7.th.jpg

Tott Donetta has blocked blaster fire from two ships firing at once, so can we also make a case for Tott "I'm a nobody" Donetta as well?

No, because you don't have the Force, and neither do I.

How the hell can Tott Donetta block a laser beams, and all that jazz? And, WTF? Drop a nuke on me? First of all, if it was Star Wars, you can deflect a laser beam (I guess, WTF do you mean? Like a blaster shot?) with a lightsaber, and block ship fire from the Force, even as a relative weakling. Secondly, a nuclear bomb can just be redirected at whoever sent it (as seen when Boba fired a missle, and it was redirected).

There is no evidence that it is unstoppable, so how can we treat it as such? As I said, you don't think the blast that hit Aleema could be stoppable?

And the Force lightning attack itself is just that, lightning.

Yeah, a Sith Wyrm that doesn't use the Force, and probably doesn't even have a brain to realize what it is.

Kyp Durron did, he controlled the lightning of the sky, and killed a damn Leviathan. And no, I'm not saying that, but what does a Jedi taking down a Sith Wyrm have to do with the fact it's still a non Force using being that can't defend against Force attacks?

Yes, and notice how everything it blasted cannot defend against the attack. Aleema is the only one who could've, and she's a weakling anyways. Kyle was able to defeat Jaden even though he had Ragnos' scepter, he was able to stop Jerec - even though he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi, and I believe stripped him of the Force.

I know!

Uh? Just because it's not canonical, doesn't mean if the situation arises he cannot do it.

Are you serious? I showed you tres times.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh wow, I didn't know this thread was "omgz Sadow without his amulet!"

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As opposed to "omgz he beat 7 DJ and desann, he must own sadow in EVERYTHING!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I never said he would, I'm saying your "we know nothing about him so he must suck at saber fighting" logic is fallible.

Can you see that? You make up shit about my argument in an attempt to weaken it. Jesus, I posted that three times now.

Deception

Are we arguing Kun's Amulet Blasts again?

This thread is yet again POINTLESS, why we have nothing BUT speculation and an amazing shortage of evidence on Sadow's power.

I'll repeat, we have no evidence on the Ancient Sith, so any argument is inconclusive.

Sadow MAY have had shocking powers
Sadow MAY have been an absolute weakling.

Notice there is no definitive statement on him, and understand why this argument cannot be concluded without further evidence

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
Clearly not a good job done on that, but whatever.

2.) Holy sh*t! I can't believe you just said I was weakening your argument by saying stuff you didn't say. That's exactly what you've been doing to me, and I already showed you three times. Now, I'll show you again:

You kept saying how I kept saying that Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, or rather implying. You kept saying that I said the ancient sith were the masters of the universe and therefore pwn all, etc.

What? Nai said Yoda can drain absorb the energies out of the amulet, are you saying that's the only defense for it? Especially given we don't even know if it can, or cannot be blocked.

No Sama, that's the only known defense and therefore Yoda is the only confirmed character that could POSSIBLY block the amulet. Luke would be another.

Kun's magnitude. Keyword is "Kun's".

And should I explain to you that everytime Sadow got angry, he was surrounded by dark side energy. Wanna show me any other characters other than the ancient sith that this happens to? It's safe to assume when Sadow got angry, he was a VERY angry mofo, and hence the dark side energies so tell me, why wouldn't his blasts be exceptionally powerful if he were to channel his anger through them?

Again I say, how is you saying Sadow will win because he's superior in the Force any different from me saying Kyle will win because he's superior in dueling? The Force is limitless? Bullshit, you cannot sit there and use Force lightning all day long on someone.

I don't know, it pretty much worked for Sidious. And the force is limitless Sama. There is only so much you can do with a saber, while you can do an infinite amount of things with the force. Not saying Sadow will, but proving the fact that the force is limitless.

How the hell can Tott Donetta block a laser beams, and all that jazz? And, WTF? Drop a nuke on me? First of all, if it was Star Wars, you can deflect a laser beam (I guess, WTF do you mean? Like a blaster shot?) with a lightsaber, and block ship fire from the Force, even as a relative weakling. Secondly, a nuclear bomb can just be redirected at whoever sent it (as seen when Boba fired a missle, and it was redirected).

Last time I checked, a blaster bolt isn't a superpowered energy beam Sama. You even see the thickness of the beam, what makes you think a lightsaber can even stop it? And my point is its very unlikely that anybody can stop an immensily powerful beam of energy. This isn't force lightning that you can simply absorb with your hands.

There is no evidence that it is unstoppable, so how can we treat it as such? As I said, you don't think the blast that hit Aleema could be stoppable?

There's no evidence to suggest it is stoppable either Sama, ESPECIALLY if it was like Kun's initial blast. Even a simple blast to Aleema couldn't be stopped by her.

Yeah, a Sith Wyrm that doesn't use the Force, and probably doesn't even have a brain to realize what it is.

Except for the last time, the beam isn't force based itself, and if it tore through a gigantic sith wyrm like it was nothing, there's nothing to suggest that it won't tear through a jedi, unless the Jedi has some kind of body armor that's impenetrable.

Kyp Durron did, he controlled the lightning of the sky, and killed a damn Leviathan. And no, I'm not saying that, but what does a Jedi taking down a Sith Wyrm have to do with the fact it's still a non Force using being that can't defend against Force attacks?

Kyp was the #2 man behind Luke in force abilities, and he did some widly insane things. There's still nothing to suggest Kyle can stop the blast

Yes, and notice how everything it blasted cannot defend against the attack. Aleema is the only one who could've, and she's a weakling anyways. Kyle was able to defeat Jaden even though he had Ragnos' scepter, he was able to stop Jerec - even though he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi, and I believe stripped him of the Force.

Again I ask you, why is it relevant that Kyle was able to defeat Jaden in an IRRELEVANT DS ENDING? And again I ask you, what is the big deal about the scepter being in Jaden's hands? First of all, it did NOT make you superhuman just by holding it, and second of all, if I remember the DS ending correctly(I played it last week), Jaden took care of Kyle and escaped. And again what does him stopping Jerec have to do with his ability or rather, inability, to stop an oncoming energy blast?

Sith'ari

'Kyp was the #2 man behind Luke in force abilities, and he did some widly insane things. There's still nothing to suggest Kyle can stop the blast'

Kyp did it when he was a padawan.

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You kept saying how I kept saying that Sadow>Kyle in saber combat, or rather implying. You kept saying that I said the ancient sith were the masters of the universe and therefore pwn all, etc.

Hey, I'll call bullshit if you don't mind. I did say the masters of the universe thing, however, I made perfectly clear I wasn't saying that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber combat, I was merely asking you to put up a case for Sadow, because:

Originally posted by Advent
Again I say, how is you saying Sadow will win because he's superior in the Force any different from me saying Kyle will win because he's superior in dueling? The Force is limitless? Bullshit, you cannot sit there and use Force lightning all day long on someone.

Sexy, you said this:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Where is the logical deduction for Kyle being able to possibly block the blast? We know DE Luke has blocked a very powerful AT-AT blast, and that wasn't even in his prime, so we could make a case for him.

Now, I'm going to ask you again, since you didn't answer me the first time:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2994/tottblock8jspt4.th.jpg

Can we make a case for Tott Donetta, too, then? He stopped fire from two starships outright. Can we make a case for Raynar? He turned ISD turbolasers away from his ship.

Uh, no, the Darkside energy didn't just "emerge" from his body as you seem to be implying:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1368/nagasadownk1.th.jpg

"I, Naga Sadow, call upon the power of the Sith...", yeah it doesn't just spark out of his ass like a Hulk power. Plus, he only does it once, I believe, so I don't know where this "everytime" comes from.

Of course I do:

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6898/ludokresshtn1.th.jpg

There you go, that's one Ancient Sith it also happens too.

Before I make a response: tell me, who do you think created all the amulets we see in GAOTS?

Really? Ulic got angry, and used the amulet:

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/6155/ulicamulet2bshh0.th.jpg

Which only knocked Cay and Nomi down. And the Darkside energies were done by other Ancient Sith as seen above, and he didn't go Hulk-beserk and energies poured out of his ass as you seem to imply, he had to "call upon" them, like Kressh did.

What the hell are you talking about? Sadow can only do so much with the Force (from what we know), he can do simple telekenesis, and really - that's about it, and maybe use a blast of an undetermined magnitude. And you realize Force energy can be depleted? It is not an unlimited source.

I didn't say that a lightsaber can stop the blasts, I said it could stop a laser beam, and even added that I had no friggin' clue what you meant by "laser beam". I mean really, a lightsaber is a f*cking laser beam.

But because Luke stopped a AT-AT fire, he has a chance? Again, I'll ask you:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2994/tottblock8jspt4.th.jpg

Can we make a case for Tott Donetta, too, then? He stopped fire from two starships outright. Can we make a case for Raynar? He turned ISD turbolasers away from his ship.

And how did you expect Aleema to stop it? She is a comparitive weakling, you yourself said this:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, Aleema is a weak sorceress with nothing but sith illusions up her sleeve.

When I asked "because Aleema didn't block it, it's unstoppable?".

Okay, Sexy, what kind of attack is it then? You seem to claim it's "not a Force based attack", but you don't tell me what. it. is.

Yes, and blaster fire from a ship has been shown to tear metal apart, but Tott Donetta blocked it. A friggin' ISD turbolaser on a starship has been shown to be blocked, and they are used in ship-to-ship combat and planetary attacks.

Thank you for skirting the actual point. And Kyp Durron did that when he was only a padawan, he was not #2 as a padawan - good thing you don't know the source material.

Anyways, what the hell does the blasts destroying a Sith Wyrm have to do with the fact a Wyrm cannot defend, it has no force powers? That was my original point which you turned into something else as usual.

If I remember correctly, he stripped Jerec of the Force, that's what it has to do with this match, not the one thing you're hellbent on proving. Plus the fact Jerec is described as this if he gets the power of the Valley of the Jedi, which he did when fighting Kyle:

"The Force of thousands of Jedi is trapped here. If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought. The eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power."

Darth Sexy

Originally posted by Advent
Hey, I'll call bullshit if you don't mind. I did say the masters of the universe thing, however, I made perfectly clear I wasn't saying that you said Sadow > Kyle in lightsaber combat, I was merely asking you to put up a case for Sadow, because:

Why would I make a case for Sadow when I don't think there's anything remotely close to a conclusive argument in terms of his saber capabilities?

Can we make a case for Tott Donetta, too, then? He stopped fire from two starships outright. Can we make a case for Raynar? He turned ISD turbolasers away from his ship.

Possibly? But I'd think not. What was the situation in Tott's case? Raynars? I haven't read enough of DN to know anything about Raynar. And at the same time, because he stopped blast X doesn't mean he can stop blast Y which is of totally different matter.

"I, Naga Sadow, call upon the power of the Sith...", yeah it doesn't just spark out of his ass like a Hulk power. Plus, he only does it once, I believe, so I don't know where this "everytime" comes from.

I can recall 3 instances at least, open up GAOTS and The Fall of the Sith Empire.

Really? Ulic got angry, and used the amulet:

Are you going to tell me Ulic's amulet did the same thing as Kun's, and not simply release some dark side energy? Hmm..Read DLOTS.

Which only knocked Cay and Nomi down. And the Darkside energies were done by other Ancient Sith as seen above, and he didn't go Hulk-beserk and energies poured out of his ass as you seem to imply, he had to "call upon" them, like Kressh did.

What do you mean he had to call upon them? All he said was "I call upon the power of the sith". That actually means he called upon the powers, recited something in the devil tongue and something magical happened? Or could it possibly mean that he was stating what he was doing?

What the hell are you talking about? Sadow can only do so much with the Force (from what we know), he can do simple telekenesis, and really - that's about it, and maybe use a blast of an undetermined magnitude. And you realize Force energy can be depleted? It is not an unlimited source.

ok??

But because Luke stopped a AT-AT fire, he has a chance? Again, I'll ask you:

And how did you expect Aleema to stop it? She is a comparitive weakling, you yourself said this:

When I asked "because Aleema didn't block it, it's unstoppable?".

I'm not simply saying you can make a case for Luke because he stopped blast X, I'm making a case for Luke because by NJO and even DN he is pretty much a force god so there's a good chance there's not much he can't do.

No, because Aleema didn't block it it isn't unstoppable. But for the millionth time there's nothing to suggest Kyle can.

Okay, Sexy, what kind of attack is it then? You seem to claim it's "not a Force based attack", but you don't tell me what. it. is.

He channels his anger through the amulet, and as a result the energy beam is directed at the target. That energy beam is not a force attack itself so it's not like anybody could absorb it or redirect it.

Yes, and blaster fire from a ship has been shown to tear metal apart, but Tott Donetta blocked it. A friggin' ISD turbolaser on a starship has been shown to be blocked, and they are used in ship-to-ship combat and planetary attacks.

You fail to understand that the blaster fire from anything has its limits, the amulet doesn't. Notice how it increases exponentially with your anger, and how it increased at least 100,000 times with Kun's anger. Therefore it isn't bound by physics or what not.

If I remember correctly, he stripped Jerec of the Force, that's what it has to do with this match, not the one thing you're hellbent on proving. Plus the fact Jerec is described as this if he gets the power of the Valley of the Jedi, which he did when fighting Kyle:

Ah yes Sama, because he did irrelevant Feat X, that somehow means he has the ability to stop an amulet blast(without any evidence of course).

Advent

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why would I make a case for Sadow when I don't think there's anything remotely close to a conclusive argument in terms of his saber capabilities?

I'm saying you keep parading around Sadow is superior to Kyle in the Force, so he'll win. Since you cannot make an argument against Sadow being inferior in a swordfight, it'd be the equivalent to me claiming Kyle wins alone because of his lightsaber abilities, and it is inconclusive if the amulet can be blocked or not.

Oh? Because Tott Donetta is a weakling compared to Kyle, literally, Kyle would decimate Tott in a saber fight and a Force fight. Tott Donetta is not strong whatsoever on the grand scale, but he can block starfire by two ships. That is the equivalent to what Luke did.

Um, he just blocked the shots with apparent ease? Look:

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/6208/tottblock8jsnt3.th.jpg

The situation: ships were raining down with an assault of blasts, Tott blocked them. Simple really.

Raynar was stopping full scale turbolasers. Entire attacks of them from an ISD. They were barraging his ship, and he turned them away by deflecting them around his ship. What do you mean his "case"? He used the Force, as Luke did.

So Luke can't either then? That's the entire point, you're saying we can make a case for Luke because he blocked AT-AT fire, you're exact words:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
We know DE Luke has blocked a very powerful AT-AT blast,

We know Tott Donetta has done the equivalent basically, and to actually assume Kyle cannot block starfire like a comparative weakling could is ridiculous, and he actually does know the Force barrier technique apparently, as he demonstrated in the Dark Forces saga, "He gathered the Force around him, shaped it into a protective cocoon". Adding to the fact Kyle's Force power and abilities would trample over Tott's.

It is your job to show me the proof, I should never have to actually look it up for myself.

I own and have read DLOTS. I'm not saying it's the same attack, but you do not know if even that is the extent of which Sadow can use it.

You said this:

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And should I explain to you that everytime Sadow got angry, he was surrounded by dark side energy. Wanna show me any other characters other than the ancient sith that this happens to? It's safe to assume when Sadow got angry, he was a VERY angry mofo, and hence the dark side energies

I showed you the image, and it's not "everytime he gets angry energies surround him", it's him actually calling upon them, which is the opposite of what you implied (and yes, you did imply that because Sadow gets mad, his fury unleashes the energy).

And the question you asked me is the same thing you asked after. Something "magical" did happen, he invoked the Sith powers which was exactly what he said he would do.

Look, Tott Donetta is a comparative weakling to Kyle (and Luke even). In both the Force and lightsaber abilities Kyle has him by a vast margin, Kyle also knows the Force barrier technique. Tott Donetta was basically able to do the equivalent of what Luke did (blocking starfire), and Tott Donetta isn't anything close to a Force god. Kyle, however, is far superior to Tott Donetta - probably by the margin DN Luke topples his DE incarnation even (except scaled down) - so, it's ridiculous that you can make a case for Luke, but can't make one for Kyle, Raynar (who did it on a higher scale), or even Tott.

Actually, your standards are ridiculous. I could just say Kyle removes the Dark side energy from the amulet, as he did that in the Dark Forces saga: "The Dark Jedi fought to break through and knew it was too late. The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed."

That doesn't explain at all what. it. is, it's an energy beam? Of what? An energy beam of anger? What the hell? Firstly, Exar Kun seems to think the amulet blast is Dark side energy (which Kyle had severed once before):

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/7599/kunsithamulet2sgo9.th.jpg

"The Dark side energy keeps increasing", and as we see, the amulet blasts get bigger (increasing), so it would seem the amulet blasts are Dark side energies. But wait, Kyle has also faced an opponent who could harness the power of the Force, and turned it into a beam, Jerec, when he was powered by the Valley of the Jedi:

"The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and a hurled the construct at Kyle's chest."

"had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship."

So, I'm inclined to believe Kyle knows what he's dealing with first of all, which is a help, and because of that would be able to either defend against it with a Force barrier (given what we know of Tott's feat with it), or just remove the Dark side energy, "The dark, nearly black column of energy that pushed up out of the mound had been severed."

And was that your original point? No, your original point was that it destroyed a Sith Wyrm, and is therefore unblockable by a Jedi. You won't worm your way out of this one, especially when we have a record of everything you wrote. The amulet blast Kun used did rip through a Sith Wyrm, and such, but the starfire Tott blocked tears through metal, and I have no doubt it would be able to disintegrate a Sith Wyrm, especially given the Wyrm can't defend from aerial attacks. Raynar blocked friggin' ISD turbolasers which are used for ship-to-ship combat, i.e. tearing through a damn ship, and planetary bombardments.

Plus the fact it's doubtful the amulet blasts that Sadow could produce would be on a bigger magnitude of what Exar Kun did.

Okay, he doesn't need to stop the amulet blast, he just cuts Sadow's connection to the Force off:

"The Jedi fell, struggled to stay aloft, and fell again. Something, or someone, had cut his access to the dark side of the Force..."

And really, to your realize the power Jerec held while Kyle did this? Jerec had this kind of power when he got a boost from the Valley of the Jedi: "eradication of life from a star system in a whisper will be within his power.", and given he also does this "Jerec turned, extended his hand, and triggered an explosion", which means he just casually stuck out of hand and an explosion happened, I'd be inclined to say he can do it to Sadow (cut him off). Either that or just sever the Dark side energy.