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I don't get it. What makes Heaven better than hell. The only difference is it to me is Heaven's depicted as a flowery cloud full of bright lights and a clear blue sky. Hell is depicted as this bad ass fire pit filled with lava and all that awesome shit...

Originally posted by Illuminati
I don't get it. What makes Heaven better than hell. The only difference is it to me is Heaven's depicted as a flowery cloud full of bright lights and a clear blue sky. Hell is depicted as this bad ass fire pit filled with lava and all that awesome shit...

Hell has been depicted by christians to be an awful place, if you do not lives by gods rules. However, I have also read material that suggests hell is being distant from god. No fire pits, no torture, a place where you can do whatever you want, but just far away from god. Basically if you don't want to be near god or accept his existence then you just do your own thing in the afterlife. Since god is supposed to be the one thing we want to be closest to, then heaven is just an existence where we are close to god. Maybe not the living on clouds with flowers everywhere kind of thing, just like hell, an existence being close to god

*unlike hell, an existence close to god

Well, I guess we'll just have to be patient until death then and enjoy life...

Originally posted by Illuminati
I don't get it. What makes Heaven better than hell. The only difference is it to me is Heaven's depicted as a flowery cloud full of bright lights and a clear blue sky. Hell is depicted as this bad ass fire pit filled with lava and all that awesome shit...

Its the company you'll be keeping in either place...

hmm... lessons in hatred from hitler?

or guitar lessons from jimi hendrix?

That's another thing.

Hitler wasn't evil. He just thought differently from you and me. Just because he had different thoughts, he goes to hell?

All sounds pretty stupid to me.

Originally posted by Illuminati
That's another thing.

Hitler wasn't evil. He just thought differently from you and me. Just because he had different thoughts, he goes to hell?

All sounds pretty stupid to me.

Its not that he thought differently, its that he used those thoughts to justify the murder of millions of his fellow man...

and for me, heaven = anything you want it to be... hell? not so good...

If hell exists (which I don't believe in) I honestly hope I end up there. I want to enjoy myself there to spite whatever Creator decided to make it. I figure any mental, spiritual, or physical punishment can't be bad enough that I can't get used to it and eventually enjoy it, provided I have an eternity to work at it. Eventually, you can only go so far with any form of punishment....at some point it just becomes sheer annihilation. And being completely obliterated from existence has to be somewhat akin to being at peace, and anything less is tolerable on some intellectual level, so I figured I'm covered no matter what they try.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
If hell exists (which I don't believe in) I honestly hope I end up there. I want to enjoy myself there to spite whatever Creator decided to make it. I figure any mental, spiritual, or physical punishment can't be bad enough that I can't get used to it and eventually enjoy it, provided I have an eternity to work at it. Eventually, you can only go so far with any form of punishment....at some point it just becomes sheer annihilation. And being completely obliterated from existence has to be somewhat akin to being at peace, and anything less is tolerable on some intellectual level, so I figured I'm covered no matter what they try.



Thats one way of looking at it...

me? brief stint in heaven doing all the things i've always wanted to do, then a spot of reincarnation...

Originally posted by pr1983
Thats one way of looking at it...

me? brief stint in heaven doing all the things i've always wanted to do, then a spot of reincarnation...

Fair enough. Your way sounds good too. Mine spites the Almighty....but yours is more fun.

I'm just hoping for a comics-style multiverse (read up on current super-string theory...there's actually real scientific theories to back up hypotheses of that sort). Of course, it may be wrong, but why not hope as long as we have the pseudo-science to justify it. And basically I just want to be reincarnated as Spider-Man in an alternate universe.

:dork:

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Fair enough. Your way sounds good too. Mine spites the Almighty....but yours is more fun.

I'm just hoping for a comics-style multiverse (read up on current super-string theory...there's actually real scientific theories to back up hypotheses of that sort). Of course, it may be wrong, but why not hope as long as we have the pseudo-science to justify it. And basically I just want to be reincarnated as Spider-Man in an alternate universe.

:dork:

Superman in mine... dump lois and get diana... a woman i won't break in half...

:superdork:

Originally posted by Illuminati
That's another thing.

Hitler wasn't evil. He just thought differently from you and me. Just because he had different thoughts, he goes to hell?

All sounds pretty stupid to me.

The answer is....that there is no heaven or hell.

Originally posted by pr1983
Superman in mine... dump lois and get diana... a woman i won't break in half...

:superdork:

Pfft! And if Diana denies you? No, I'd rather have my pick of women, rather than be an overpowered god who can't get some tail to save his life.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Pfft! And if Diana denies you? No, I'd rather have my pick of women, rather than be an overpowered god who can't get some tail to save his life.

Deny me? Yeah, like thats going to happen...

Originally posted by pr1983
Deny me? Yeah, like thats going to happen...

Ah, that's right....you're Superman. You'll just discover your pheremone attack and seduce Diana or some sh*t like that.

You win this round sir. *nods cordially*

....

Oh and sorry for the off-topic stuff.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Ah, that's right....you're Superman. You'll just discover your pheremone attack and seduce Diana or some sh*t like that.

You win this round sir. *nods cordially*

....

Oh and sorry for the off-topic stuff.



lol...

well, technically, its our definitions of heaven, so it cant be that off topic...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
If hell exists (which I don't believe in) I honestly hope I end up there. I want to enjoy myself there to spite whatever Creator decided to make it. I figure any mental, spiritual, or physical punishment can't be bad enough that I can't get used to it and eventually enjoy it, provided I have an eternity to work at it. Eventually, you can only go so far with any form of punishment....at some point it just becomes sheer annihilation. And being completely obliterated from existence has to be somewhat akin to being at peace, and anything less is tolerable on some intellectual level, so I figured I'm covered no matter what they try.


Huh.

Contrary to popular belief, the body doesn't adjust to pain like it does other sensations. Spite God if you will. He doesn't care--at least, not in the way that you want Him to care.

Hell isn't some place that you just get to screw around in, though. It's a bad, bad place.

Originally posted by Illuminati
That's another thing.

Hitler wasn't evil. He just thought differently from you and me. Just because he had different thoughts, he goes to hell?

All sounds pretty stupid to me.
Whoever said that Hitler was in hell?

Anyway, I'm tempted to start lecturing people on the beliefs of Christians, since there seems to be a large pool of misconception in which many KMC members enjoy frolicking, but I figure, what's the point? They don't care. They aren't going to change.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Huh.

Contrary to popular belief, the body doesn't adjust to pain like it does other sensations. Spite God if you will. He doesn't care--at least, not in the way that you want Him to care.

Hell isn't some place that you just get to screw around in, though. It's a bad, bad place.


Whoever said that Hitler was in hell?

Anyway, I'm tempted to start lecturing people on the beliefs of Christians, since there seems to be a large pool of misconception in which many KMC members enjoy frolicking, but I figure, what's the point? They don't care. They aren't going to change.

i said it...

Originally posted by pr1983
i said it...
I didn't...really mean...literally.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I didn't...really mean...literally.

I know... but just in case...

Originally posted by FeceMan
Huh.

Contrary to popular belief, the body doesn't adjust to pain like it does other sensations. Spite God if you will. He doesn't care--at least, not in the way that you want Him to care.

Hell isn't some place that you just get to screw around in, though. It's a bad, bad place.


Whoever said that Hitler was in hell?

Anyway, I'm tempted to start lecturing people on the beliefs of Christians, since there seems to be a large pool of misconception in which many KMC members enjoy frolicking, but I figure, what's the point? They don't care. They aren't going to change.

I disagree. Pain is just a normal sensation (like rubbing against something) amplified a lot. And there's plenty of evidencce for being able to train your mind to be immune to the torture-aspects of physical pain. The same could be said of mental pain.

And I never said I'd being screwing around in Hell. I'd imagine I wouldn't have much control over what's going on, but would still have my thoughts, or essence. And if they take that over too, I'm not really myself then, am I? So it's a moot point.

Besides I don't believe in hell, precisely for this reason (and others). I defy any sort of creator to make a place so bad that I can't eventually enjoy it if I have all eternity to train myself to....it wouldn't happen. They'd have to destroy me, which isn't really pain anymore.

...

And if the pool of misconception comment was aimed toward me as well, I may have misconceptions (don't we all) but I'm at least a former Christian....so while I'm having some fun while also making a point or two, I have at least a little bit of valid background on the subject.

-DM

P.S. And the whole spiting God thing was only to spite a god that feels the need to damn people to an eternal hell. I don't imagine there's a god quite like that, and if a transcendant creator does exist, I love him very much. So this whole tirade isn't entirely malicious....just mostly.

Heaven and Hell exist just like the Elves in the North Pole do

God doesn't want to damn people. Cripes.

And maybe I'll have to visit the North Pole sometime.

The Christian version of Heaven would kind of become hell if all you did was easy and cloud like...doing absolutely nothing forever! As for Hell, it doesn't exist. Though I believe there is something that we learn from this life, possible go back to where we came from and share what we've learned, then may choose or not choose to have more experience....

Originally posted by Illuminati
I don't get it. What makes Heaven better than hell. The only difference is it to me is Heaven's depicted as a flowery cloud full of bright lights and a clear blue sky. Hell is depicted as this bad ass fire pit filled with lava and all that awesome shit... ermm There is no hell or heaven. They made that up to motivate you.

I could imagine Hell to be a really, really sucky place...if you don't beleive me, get someone to kick you in the balls repeatedly for 2 minutes...and then imagine that for a few milliopn years...until the next....worse...punishment comes.

And although I certainly fear the idea of a hell, I am unable to believe that Jesus is my saviour, sucks for me, doesn't it?

For whatever the tortures of hell, the boredom of heaven would be even worse.

Originally posted by Storm
For whatever the tortures of hell, the boredom of heaven would be even worse.

Sure thing, if that makes you happy, but you know that isn't true, right?

I don't know about you guys but I'm going to Purgatory.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I don't know about you guys but I'm going to Purgatory.
No, you are going to hell. You are an atheist. A very outspoken one as well.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, you are going to hell. You are an atheist. A very outspoken one as well. But I am open-minded, good-hearted, and believe in equality.

Originally posted by lord xyz
But I am open-minded, good-hearted, and believe in equality.

Good for you, still going to hell.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Good for you, still going to hell. Ah well. Atleast I'll have 100 years of relaxation and doing whatever I want on Earth.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Ah well. Atleast I'll have 100 years of relaxation and doing whatever I want on Earth. Yeah, enjoy it while it lasts.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, enjoy it while it lasts. Yes I do enjoy orgasms.

well then you could make a career out of that.

Originally posted by cking
well then you could make a career out of that. flirt

all universities should have offer a degree in that. I think that would be the most wanted job in this country for sure.

There was a great signature someone made a while ago. It discussed how, given how fast the Flash moves, 2 minutes is roughly equivalent to 2 millenia to him. Then it interposed that idea with a 2-minute commercial with the annoying Pepsi-girl that used to do their commercials.

The crux of the argument was this:
2 millenia of Pepsi girl is WAY worse than any current religion's conception of hell.

I found it pricelessly funny (it was much better in the sig...I have the feeling I butchered it).

Anyway, something to think about.

Originally posted by Storm
For whatever the tortures of hell, the boredom of heaven would be even worse. Also, wouldn't the torturers of hell get bored of torturing???......Wouldn't they rebel?? Aren't they supposed to be tortured too, the demons and Satan? Who's gonna be doing the torturing???

Originally posted by DigiMark007
There was a great signature someone made a while ago. It discussed how, given how fast the Flash moves, 2 minutes is roughly equivalent to 2 millenia to him. Then it interposed that idea with a 2-minute commercial with the annoying Pepsi-girl that used to do their commercials.

The crux of the argument was this:
2 millenia of Pepsi girl is WAY worse than any current religion's conception of hell.

I found it pricelessly funny (it was much better in the sig...I have the feeling I butchered it).

Anyway, something to think about. Then that'll be KMC's cncept of hell!

Originally posted by Bardock42
I could imagine Hell to be a really, really sucky place...if you don't beleive me, get someone to kick you in the balls repeatedly for 2 minutes...

*winces*

Just thinking of that hurt...

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6797/sign7bz.png

Originally posted by DigiMark007
There was a great signature someone made a while ago. It discussed how, given how fast the Flash moves, 2 minutes is roughly equivalent to 2 millenia to him. Then it interposed that idea with a 2-minute commercial with the annoying Pepsi-girl that used to do their commercials.

The crux of the argument was this:
2 millenia of Pepsi girl is WAY worse than any current religion's conception of hell.

I found it pricelessly funny (it was much better in the sig...I have the feeling I butchered it).

Anyway, something to think about. Exactly, what if that is one of the tortures in hell?

Hell already happened, it's called the Inquisition....boiling people alive, peeling their skin off, the rack, cutting limbs off, cages, dungeons, starving, decease, unfair justice........etc..etc...All in the name of god...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Hell already happened, it's called the Inquisition....boiling people alive, peeling their skin off, the rack, cutting limbs off, cages, dungeons, starving, decease, unfair justice........etc..etc...All in the name of god...

And now imagine that 10 000 times worse in hell.

Who's gonna do the torturing?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Who's gonna do the torturing?

How should I know. the devil maybe? god? An Archangel? demons? George Bush?

God.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Hell already happened, it's called the Inquisition....boiling people alive, peeling their skin off, the rack, cutting limbs off, cages, dungeons, starving, decease, unfair justice........etc..etc...All in the name of god... I just had to profile that!

Let me show you heaven:

How would you describe your emotional state, if you were to win the lottery? I think you would be in heaven.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Let me show you heaven:

How would you describe your emotional state, if you were to win the lottery? I think you would be in heaven. Just one thousand times better.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Just one thousand times better.


You live in a fantasy world.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You live in a fantasy world.

No, but when fantasizing about Heaven why not go all the way?

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, but when fantasizing about Heaven why not go all the way?

I wasn't fantasying. I was giving real examples of heaven.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I wasn't fantasying. I was giving real examples of heaven.

Of a state that would make one feel good and that you therefore compare to the idea of Heaven....to be more specific.

6. This man truly believed Jesus is the Son of God but refused to turn His life over to the Lord, instead, continuing a crime spree including rape, child molestation and murder.

Correct Answer: A (Heaven) John merely says you have to believe in Jesus to experience everlasting life, not that you have to follow or obey Jesus.

That was a Q and A to that bible quiz at the beginning of this thread. Ok this is an example when following the bible word for word is a very bad mistake

If thats the same landover baptist church im thinking of, they were the group that held signs up and protested a soldiers funeral. They had a bunch of horrible signs about how this soldier was going to hell and they ahd other signs that said like priests rape boys and the pope is the devil and all of this nasty ridiculous crap.

Nah, the Landover Baptist Church is just a satire, the guys you are thinking of is the Westboro Baptist Church.

Again, who's going to do the torturing? If in scripture it says that hell is reserved for the devil and his angels? Where does that mention us?? And the devil or Satan being an angel, and in scripture it says angels are neither male nor female, how come we call the devil a he, just like we call god a he, (just thought I'd throw that in..)...But who will torture us??..

Originally posted by DigiMark007
There was a great signature someone made a while ago. It discussed how, given how fast the Flash moves, 2 minutes is roughly equivalent to 2 millenia to him. Then it interposed that idea with a 2-minute commercial with the annoying Pepsi-girl that used to do their commercials.

The crux of the argument was this:
2 millenia of Pepsi girl is WAY worse than any current religion's conception of hell.

I found it pricelessly funny (it was much better in the sig...I have the feeling I butchered it).

Anyway, something to think about.

You can go and look it up at its original source, Seanbaby's superfriends page. The proverbial gospel of bizarre and often crass humor combined with the Superfriends. More people should have sigs and quotes from it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Again, who's going to do the torturing? If in scripture it says that hell is reserved for the devil and his angels? Where does that mention us?? And the devil or Satan being an angel, and in scripture it says angels are neither male nor female, how come we call the devil a he, just like we call god a he, (just thought I'd throw that in..)...But who will torture us??..
You raise an interesting point. I have recently spent a lot of times researching hell and heaven. I am currently under the impression that the Abyss is where Satan and the demons are to be kept and punished by God in a river of fire. And that Hell also has a river of fire that people are cast into. Torture is never mentioned in connection to Hell. Torment is. And I think burning (including all your tender parts) in a river of fire for 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 years would definitely qualify as torment.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You raise an interesting point. I have recently spent a lot of times researching hell and heaven. I am currently under the impression that the Abyss is where Satan and the demons are to be kept and punished by God in a river of fire. And that Hell also has a river of fire that people are cast into. Torture is never mentioned in connection to Hell. Torment is. And I think burning (including all your tender parts) in a river of fire for 100000000000000000000000000000000000000 years would definitely qualify as torment. Spirits don't have tender parts...they are like the wind.....

So, where are the sinners who have died before?? It only says end the end the Satan and his angels are thrown into the Lake of fire at the very end........where are these sinners? Are they burning, or in darkness...AND remember they seem to get a break to come out for the White Throne Judgment, THEN THROWN BACK IN???....

Makes NO sense.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Again, who's going to do the torturing? If in scripture it says that hell is reserved for the devil and his angels? Where does that mention us?? And the devil or Satan being an angel, and in scripture it says angels are neither male nor female, how come we call the devil a he, just like we call god a he, (just thought I'd throw that in..)...But who will torture us??..

Punishment is scientifically defined as a stimulus or event the presentation/removal of which decreases the probability of a target behavior.

Punishment does not necessarily equal pain, torture, etc. If Satan is in a position where he is unable to behave in some manner, he has been punished. If suffering occurs due to that position, it is probable that it could be incidental to that position, and not caused by anything but that position. But then, I don't believe in hell as it is commonly thought of.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Spirits don't have tender parts...they are like the wind.....

So, where are the sinners who have died before?? It only says end the end the Satan and his angels are thrown into the Lake of fire at the very end........where are these sinners? Are they burning, or in darkness...AND remember they seem to get a break to come out for the White Throne Judgment, THEN THROWN BACK IN???....

Makes NO sense.

Hell as is termed before final judgement and hell following are two distinct states.

Hell only means death in the original language.....all the fire and torment is from older myths, just like Satan..........

Since spirits, or energy cannot be destroyed and have no pain, because they have no nerve endings.......there is no torment...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Hell only means death in the original language.....all the fire and torment is from older myths, just like Satan..........

Since spirits, or energy cannot be destroyed and have no pain, because they have no nerve endings.......there is no torment...

Agreed, I was referring to what is being discussed here as hell.

You are assuming that spirits have no pain. This concept has no evidence supporting it.

Originally posted by Regret
Agreed, I was referring to what is being discussed here as hell.

You are assuming that spirits have no pain. This concept has no evidence supporting it.

IMHO there is not spirit.

There is imo energy which exists in all things which can be called spirit.

Originally posted by debbiejo
There is imo energy which exists in all things which can be called spirit.

But without the thing, there is no spirit. No disembodied spirits, is what I should have said.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Spirits don't have tender parts...they are like the wind..... You forget that there is a resurrection of the body in the afterlife.

if indeed the traditional christian/muslim/jewish god exists. id rather go to the darkest deepest pit of hell{the valley of despair as some call it} to feal the total absence of god and anything he can give me.

It is very sad that you feel this way. I hope you can find peace with God.

Originally posted by Nellinator
It is very sad that you feel this way. I hope you can find peace with God.


not tryin to bash u or anything but, i doubt ud approve if i found peace with anything other than god. even if it gave me as much if not more than god{if he exists} could{n dont say nuthin can give any1 more than god cause u dont know}

I would approve if you found peace with anyone. However, I would be MOST happy if you found peace with God. In heaven, the more the merrier.

Originally posted by Illuminati
I don't get it. What makes Heaven better than hell. The only difference is it to me is Heaven's depicted as a flowery cloud full of bright lights and a clear blue sky. Hell is depicted as this bad ass fire pit filled with lava and all that awesome shit...

Hell is where Satan rules and where you will be forever (until God destroys Hell) tortured by his demons.

Heaven has streets of gold, houses bigger then any other, and of course you get to see God face to face which the Bible says is what you will want to do the moment you enter the gates.

Pain, torture, and destruction or ever lasting life?

I don't think there will be torture because Satan will be chained forever after Judgement Day. But, everlasting torment, pain, and weeping will happen for sure in Hell. I would definitely prefer golden streets, pearly gates and no more sin or pain. However, fear of Hell is not why people should believe. People should believe because of a love for God.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
if indeed the traditional christian/muslim/jewish god exists. id rather go to the darkest deepest pit of hell{the valley of despair as some call it} to feal the total absence of god and anything he can give me.

Interesting that you say that. I think this is how heaven and hell actually operate. Both give the individual what they truly desire in the end. A life of self-isolation and slavery to petty desires, or prideful ones, in hell. A confirmation of love and self-sacrifice in heaven. Heaven will always require humility to enter, I think. Those who can't stand the idea of a creator/savior, or who think of God as some kind of threat to their own autonomy will not abide a heaven.

Originally posted by Nellinator
You forget that there is a resurrection of the body in the afterlife. According to you........Not me........

Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't think there will be torture because Satan will be chained forever after Judgement Day.

Forever? Satan seems smart, and surely he must understand, if this were real, the consequences and all that. Why does he persist with it? Most smart people will act in a way, any way, that reduces pain and/or removes oneself from the vicinity of that which causes it. Isn't it theoretically possible he could repent?

And why was Satan sealed in hell or where ever? Do Angels not in fact have the right to exercise free will? After all, what was the real crime committed by he during the fall from grace that was so great he is treated such? Does it really equal or surpass what humanity has done to itself and the world?

Doesn't say that!! Says Satan and his angels will be thrown into the lake of fire...

Doest satan get to inherit the earth then?

Yes there is an interpretation that says he (Remember angels have no male or female according to scripture) will be let loose for 1000 years to deceive others ...( This earth???...Why?........Wasn't judgement done??) Or is it a tease???....what the hey?? why?......................let me think...........souls/spirts.energy don't have a body, so how can you toruture are???.........hmmmmmmmmmmm could this be myth that came earlier upon the Holy Roman Empire??...........and thus the protestant chuch took off on it without looking outside the beliefs.............. good call Alliance!!

Then the final judgment on all those others also..............hmmmmmm.........sounds kinda like they were smokin something.

first:

they are thrown into hell (actual meaning is death)
then they get a break for judgment (open to interpretation)
then satan gets to do it again. (After he was thrown into the lake of fire..........after 1000 years?)


Come on you do the thinking along with the other myths that have the same story............

You didn't read the Biblical order of things. The Bible says that after the rapture and tribulation Satan will be CHAINED for a thousand years and Jesus will reign on EARTH for a thousand years. Then Satan will be released again and will tempt all the people on Earth one last time including those born during the thousand year reign. THEN comes Judgement Day and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire for eternity with those who he successfully tempted. Its a pretty hazy subject though and my interpretation could be wrong. But one thing seems clear to me, Judgement Day is the last day before eternity (if that makes any sense).

Originally posted by Nellinator
You didn't read the Biblical order of things. The Bible says that after the rapture and tribulation Satan will be CHAINED for a thousand years and Jesus will reign on EARTH for a thousand years. Then Satan will be released again and will tempt all the people on Earth one last time including those born during the thousand year reign. THEN comes Judgement Day and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire for eternity with those who he successfully tempted. Its a pretty hazy subject though and my interpretation could be wrong. But one thing seems clear to me, Judgement Day is the last day before eternity (if that makes any sense).

The rapture is not in the bible. Please post the scripture if I am wrong.

It is not called the rapture which is why people don't see it in their concordance, but it is in the Bible.
Jesus talks of his return in Matthew 24:30-31.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 talks about it as well.
Hope that helps.

Originally posted by Nellinator
It is not called the rapture which is why people don't see it in their concordance, but it is in the Bible.
Jesus talks of his return in Matthew 24:30-31.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 talks about it as well.
Hope that helps.

Please post the scriptures.

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man (Jesus) will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels will a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens (I think this implies Sheol) to the other." Matthew 24:30-31
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever." 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
Did you have to make me do that?

Originally posted by Nellinator
You didn't read the Biblical order of things. The Bible says that after the rapture and tribulation Satan will be CHAINED for a thousand years and Jesus will reign on EARTH for a thousand years. Then Satan will be released again and will tempt all the people on Earth one last time including those born during the thousand year reign. THEN comes Judgement Day and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire for eternity with those who he successfully tempted. Its a pretty hazy subject though and my interpretation could be wrong. But one thing seems clear to me, Judgement Day is the last day before eternity (if that makes any sense). Yes, I did read that.........so tell me how........this 1000 years is supposed to purify the human race and for what purpose?

If Satan is condemned along with his angels from the beginning......then what is the purpose of this 1000 reign?.........God knows all right??.........God knows all even from the beginnings of the world right??............sooooooo after the "White Throne" Judgement,.......what would be the purpose of this so called Satan being on the earth another 1000 years?..........Think about this........really now.

Tell us Mr. N. point by point on how this will all accrue please........I would like to hear your view.......honest...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes, I did read that.........so tell me how........this 1000 years is supposed to purify the human race and for what purpose?

If Satan is condemned along with his angels from the beginning......then what is the purpose of this 1000 reign?.........God knows all right??.........God knows all even from the beginnings of the world right??............sooooooo after the "White Throne" Judgement,.......what would be the purpose of this so called Satan being on the earth another 1000 years?..........Think about this........really now.

Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that decieved them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The Bible does not say Satan will reign for a thousand years. He is to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. But fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

That was a lot of extrapolation from those two little passages.

And remember revelations doesn't have a real author. Besides that visions are always symbolic........

Why would god want to decieve the nations once more?????

Originally posted by debbiejo
Besides that visions are always symbolic........

That is an assumption, not necessarily a fact.

Look at Daniel.........they always are....just as they are today......

Originally posted by debbiejo
Look at Daniel.........they always are....just as they are today......

Give the quote

The visions of the lean and fat cows, and the visions of the Statue, and the visions of the corn, and the visions of the chef and the birds, and those that were in prision with him............Daniel, that is...........they were all symbolic.

Originally posted by debbiejo
The visions of the lean and fat cows, and the visions of the Statue, and the visions of the corn, and the visions of the chef and the birds, and those that were in prision with him............Daniel, that is...........they were all symbolic.

Then all you are doing is inferring the absolute nature, not stating fact.

Can you give me a vision that was literal???....

States that this was a vision.

Yet, he did hear it right??? So much so that he asked about the voice.........not a true vision as in seeing..........just a voice...

I'm talking about visual..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yet, he did hear it right??? So much so that he asked about the voice.........not a true vision as in seeing..........just a voice...

I'm talking about visual..

Lol, splitting hairs. There is nothing saying there was not a visual component.

And still whether or not there is text reference to it, there is no statement against literal visions.

"and god saw that it was good"

Originally posted by Regret
Lol, splitting hairs. There is nothing saying there was not a visual component.

And still whether or not there is text reference to it, there is no statement against literal visions. Hearing a voice and seeing a visual vision are quite different...(do the research)........I am not splitting hairs, honest.......It's just the facts about peoples visions...

Visual visions are not in what we would call "true life", but symbolic to ones understanding of them......they mean different things to different people..........for instance, If I had one, YOU would not be able to understand it, just as I would not of you..........they are personal and would be understood ONLY by the ones receiving them..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Hearing a voice and see a visual vision are quite different...(do the research)........I am not splitting hairs, honest.......It's just the facts about peoples visions...

Originally posted by debbiejo
Besides that visions are always symbolic........

You are still in error as to your initial statement on visions. It is a statement of absolute when there is no support for it being absolute. The vision I quoted is stated to be a vision, thus this vision was literal.

A better statement would be this:

"Besides that recorded visual visions have always been symbolic........"

literal vision? I would assume it to be.

Yes, you are right, I should of specified that............cause I was talking visual visions..........

For instance as an example......I could have a vision of a "red line".......to you it might mean nothing, but to me it would mean that someone "red a line" that I wrote........also another example would be ....If I had a vision of a heart with a hole in it.......to me it would mean whole hearted, though you may not..........another example.......if I saw a fox that was panting and really hot, the first thing that would pop into my mind was that "boy that fox is hot".............though you might not see it this way ( only being a tired fox)...........I believe what I would call god, knows how we would interrupted things and apply them.............imo

Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes, you are right, I should of specified that............cause I was talking visual visions..........

For instance as an example......I could have a vision of a "red line".......to you it might mean nothing, but to me it would mean that someone "red a line" that I wrote........also another example would be ....If I had a vision of a heart with a hole in it.......to me it would mean whole hearted, though you may not..........another example.......if I saw a fox that was panting and really hot, the first thing that would pop into my mind was that "boy that fox is hot".............though you might not see it this way ( only being a tired fox)...........I believe what I would call god, knows how we would interrupted things and apply them.............imo

Why would you call a red line "red a line"?
Why would you call a heart with a hole "whole hearted"?

You just turned a red line to read a line and a heart with a hole to someone that has a full heart. Basically what you have said made no sense.

what?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Why would you call a red line "red a line"?
Why would you call a heart with a hole "whole hearted"?

You just turned a red line to read a line and a heart with a hole to someone that has a full heart. Basically what you have said made no sense. This is how visions work with individuals.......see, I did say it wouldn't make sense to you.......just as if you had some vision, it wouldn't make sense to me..........but what KNOWS US, knows how we would interpreted it..........kinda beauty - iss

/ beauty-ish