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Ok, I've been thinking about this for some time now, since I wrote the KMC article on Wiki anyway. Basically I've noticed that although new members are always welcomed positively in the Welcome Forum it seems that as soon as they venture anywhere else on KMC they're generally ostracised within a very short space of time.

I know I, and a few others, have tried to keep the positive welcomes consistent but there are a lot of members who have been here for a while who constantly try to intimidate newer members, as though it's some kind of competition and something to be proud of. This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when you consider how many times I've seen people questioning KMC's overall atmosphere and wondering why it's spiralling downwards.

I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here, there's no reason to make them uncomfortable and if we were truly proud of the forum and our membership here then we'd all be doing this automatically. I say from now on, unless we're provided with obvious and valid reasons not to, we should all try to prove that KMC really is the best community on the net.

Who's with me? eyes

Originally posted by Syren
Ok, I've been thinking about this for some time now, since I wrote the KMC article on Wiki anyway. Basically I've noticed that although new members are always welcomed positively in the Welcome Forum it seems that as soon as they venture anywhere else on KMC they're generally ostracised within a very short space of time.

I know I, and a few others, have tried to keep the positive welcomes consistent but there are a lot of members who have been here for a while who constantly try to intimidate newer members, as though it's some kind of competition and something to be proud of. This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when you consider how many times I've seen people questioning KMC's overall atmosphere and wondering why it's spiralling downwards.

I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here, there's no reason to make them uncomfortable and if we're truly proud of the forum and our membership here then we'd all be doing this automatically. I say from now on, unless we're provided with obvious and valid reasons not to, we should all try to prove that KMC really is the best community on the net.

Who's with me? eyes

I make people feel welcomed each and everyday.

*bans Syren for suggesting ludicrous ideas*

Originally posted by LethalFemme
I make people feel welcomed each and everyday.

You never made me feel welcomedisgust

I hate new members, so no, I'm not with you.

You can't ban me sweetie, or anyone for that matter. You're just a lowly member, like me. There, there.

Disclaimer - I'm in rather a good mood today (hence the cheesy threads); sunshine, no work and a serious lack of stress. Lovely

Originally posted by Syren


You can't ban me sweetie, or anyone for that matter. You're just a lowly member, like me. There, there.

Disclaimer - I'm in rather a good mood today (hence the cheesy threads); sunshine, no work and a serious lack of stress. Lovely

Damn!dammit Someday....someday...Ill get you goodsneaky2

Originally posted by LethalFemme
I welcome you to log off.mhm

I welcome you to pm me with sexually explicit contentmhm

I wont tell anyonedodgy

Hello Syren, thank you, you have made me feel welcome.

Why on Earth would you want to dedicate any time to making new members of an internet forum FEEL welcome? Illogical for a few reasons.

1) The OTF is the only free social forum, and most people wouldn't be here for that, or to make friends.

2) They're people randomly using the net, why dedicate any more time than "Welcome to KMC" to them? Why even that?

3) Ok, so we have some decent members (most of which don't even dwell here, if we're talking about what makes a decent overall forum member), but why would you take pride in the actual forum? That's like internet patriotism.

-AC

Originally posted by LethalFemme
I make people feel welcomed each and everyday.

Ahem...


I make people feel welcome d each and everyday

That's more like it...

BDB

Originally posted by ~Da Moose~
Ahem...


I make people feel welcome d each and everyday

That's more like it...

You read me too well.eyes

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why on Earth would you want to dedicate any time to making new members of an internet forum FEEL welcome? Illogical for a few reasons.

1) The OTF is the only free social forum, and most people wouldn't be here for that, or to make friends.

2) They're people randomly using the net, why dedicate any more time than "Welcome to KMC" to them? Why even that?

3) Ok, so we have some decent members (most of which don't even dwell here, if we're talking about what makes a decent overall forum member), but why would you take pride in the actual forum? That's like internet patriotism.

-AC

Then why do you post here?

Originally posted by LethalFemme
Then why do you post here?

Nothing I said indicated that I had no reason to post here, did it? It was showing how pointless I find this welcoming committee to be.

There are a couple of people on this site I do interact socially with, but I didn't intend to come here socially, nor would I class it as majorly "social" anyway. My point was that people aren't coming here to join the OTF, you see.

People think the OTF is more important than it really is, when its real importance is keeping the shit members from the good forums.

-AC

maybe to talk

Originally posted by ~Da Moose~
Ahem...


I make people feel welcome d each and everyday

That's more like it...

Haha, I get it...come..haha....as in sexually....haha...or Id idn't get it...maybe I should come as I am. ermm

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nothing I said indicated that I had no reason to post here, did it? It was showing how pointless I find this welcoming committee to be.

There are a couple of people on this site I do interact socially with, but I didn't intend to come here socially, nor would I class it as majorly "social" anyway. My point was that people aren't coming here to join the OTF, you see.

People think the OTF is more important than it really is, when its real importance is keeping the shit members from the good forums.

-AC

I see it as the community pool.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why on Earth would you want to dedicate any time to making new members of an internet forum FEEL welcome? Illogical for a few reasons.

1) The OTF is the only free social forum, and most people wouldn't be here for that, or to make friends.

2) They're people randomly using the net, why dedicate any more time than "Welcome to KMC" to them? Why even that?

3) Ok, so we have some decent members (most of which don't even dwell here, if we're talking about what makes a decent overall forum member), but why would you take pride in the actual forum? That's like internet patriotism.

-AC

I didn't mention making them feel more welcome in the OTF specifically. I just said that once new members have left the Welcome forum and venture anywhere else they're generally treated badly, or so I've noticed. How could you possibly find a problem with a positive idea?

The Welcome forum does its job, admittedly, but it seems really mechanical to me. You know for sure that in the welcome forum you're guaranteed a nice, open-armed hello. But everywhere else is filled to the brim with people who seriously think they're superior to every new member and I'd rather see newcomers treated with courtesy. Yet you've found reason to view this effort as something to be argued against, I can't see why.

What's wrong with patriotism, actually? I'm proud to be a member of KMC, I think the forum as a whole is quite good, although it could be better in a lot of ways. Why do you post here if you don't enjoy it and don't achieve a sense of satisfaction from the discussions you partake in? To alleviate boredom alone? Get a hobby.

I just don't see how making new members feel truly welcome and as comfortable as the older members could possibly be a bad thing.

Edit; As for the 'Committee' title, it was intended as a light-hearted approach. I don't think I went over-board with this. Notice the 'I'll bake the cookies' option? It's supposed to be fun.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Haha, I get it...come..haha....as in sexually....haha...or Id idn't get it...maybe I should come as I am. ermm


You're both sexually attractive AND observant. I like that in my man-whores.

don't know what it means

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People think the OTF is more important than it really is, when its real importance is keeping the shit members from the good forums.

-AC

Oh............so is that why you're posting here?

Originally posted by Syren
I didn't mention making them feel more welcome in the OTF specifically. I just said that once new members have left the Welcome forum and venture anywhere else they're generally treated badly, or so I've noticed. How could you possibly find a problem with a positive idea?

Because if they come here to dwell in the OTF then the chances are that they aren't the right material anywhere else. The smart members that dwell around the OTF aren't solely OTF members, they found the OTF after.

Originally posted by Syren
The Welcome forum does its job, admittedly, but it seems really mechanical to me. You know for sure that in the welcome forum you're guaranteed a nice, open-armed hello. But everywhere else is filled to the brim with people who seriously think they're superior to every new member and I'd rather see newcomers treated with courtesy. Yet you've found reason to view this effort as something to be argued against, I can't see why.

Courtesy, why? Or I guess I should be asking, what's more useful than the W.F? You realise that hardly any of the well known members used that particular forum when they arrived, right? They just posted wherever. So what's your general intent here? Post to someone in the middle of the debate and say "Welcome to KMC"? People in the W.F do that, just because you mean it doesn't make it any less mechanical.

I'm not saying don't do it, do what you want. I'm simply saying that I think the idea is a bit OTF born and a bit pointless.

Originally posted by Syren
What's wrong with patriotism, actually?

That's a GDF debate, so if you do want to go to that area of debate and get torn to shreds, I would advise creating a thread there.

Patriotism is pathetic, but that's a whole other debate.

Originally posted by Syren
I'm proud to be a member of KMC, I think the forum as a whole is quite good, although it could be better in a lot of ways. Why do you post here if you don't enjoy it and don't achieve a sense of satisfaction from the discussions you partake in? To alleviate boredom alone? Get a hobby.

Stop getting your panties in a twist. I never said I don't "enjoy" posting here, it passes the time. I chose to sign up, why is that anything to be proud of? You chose to sign up to an internet forum that is decent, why is that an achievement to you?

Stop being so insecure about things, I'm just asking you "Why?", I'm not saying you're wrong, besides the patriotism thing.

Originally posted by Syren
I just don't see how making new members feel truly welcome and as comfortable as the older members could possibly be a bad thing.

I didn't say it was a "bad" thing either.

New members will never be as comfortable as old members because they are just that, new members. If they turn out to be of any value, then they're probably smart enough to realise that it's a bit pointless to welcome people who probably couldn't care any less.

If you want to, fine. I'm voicing my opinion.

-AC

Originally posted by Xirius
Oh............so is that why you're posting here?

I meant the literal shit and piss threads. Where else do they go? Nowhere.

I don't spend my time creating 10 threads a day here, I post in the occasional thread if I wish to talk to someone randomly and it's not private. It has a purpose, and that's being the OTF. I'm not proposing it gets deleted, I'm proposing it gets kept.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Courtesy, why? Or I guess I should be asking, what's more useful than the W.F? You realise that hardly any of the well known members used that particular forum when they arrived, right? They just posted wherever. So what's your general intent here? Post to someone in the middle of the debate and say "Welcome to KMC"? People in the W.F do that, just because you mean it doesn't make it any less mechanical.

As Syren mentioned, the point isn't to literally "Welcome" people a second time on a different thread, the point is to not insult or be hostile towards people just for being new. The point is to give them a chance to get used to KMC so they can fit in, and become valued members.....etc.

Originally posted by Xirius
As Syren mentioned, the point isn't to literally "Welcome" people a second time on a different thread, the point is to not insult or be hostile towards people just for being new. The point is to give them a chance to get used to KMC so they can fit in, and become valued members.....etc.

So why does this need any welcoming? It's not a matter of welcoming, is it? It's simply not harassing newbies, which I proposed was stupid a long time ago. I was new once, I just didn't post like an epileptic at a strobe light factory, I didn't make dumb threads and I wasn't an idiot in general. I'm sure a lot of the OTF dwellers are the same.

Most of the new people that join today end up being throwaway nobodies who are either socks or might as well be socks. If you want to become a valued member, then conduct yourself properly.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
epileptic at a strobe light factory

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So why does this need any welcoming? It's not a matter of welcoming, is it? It's simply not harassing newbies, which I proposed was stupid a long time ago. I was new once, I just didn't post like an epileptic at a strobe light factory, I didn't make dumb threads and I wasn't an idiot in general. I'm sure a lot of the OTF dwellers are the same.

Most of the new people that join today end up being throwaway nobodies who are either socks or might as well be socks. If you want to become a valued member, then conduct yourself properly.

-AC

But a lot of new members are a lot younger than some of the established members, and its not any harm for those established members to conduct themselves properly, and help new members adjust to the forum instead of attacking them needlessly.
Im not saying that all new members are just unused to the forum, quite a few are probably just assh*les, but that doesnt mean that none of them should be given some time to prove that they aren't like that.

Originally posted by Xirius
But a lot of new members are a lot younger than some of the established members, and its not any harm for those established members to conduct themselves properly, and help new members adjust to the forum instead of attacking them needlessly.
Im not saying that all new members are just unused to the forum, quite a few are probably just assh*les, but that doesnt mean that none of them should be given some time to prove that they aren't like that.

If they're smart at all they can ignore the bashing, I did. That's what I don't get, this whole thing is about the bashing of new members, but they can ignore it.

Or alternatively, just not bring it on themselves.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because if they come here to dwell in the OTF then the chances are that they aren't the right material anywhere else. The smart members that dwell around the OTF aren't solely OTF members, they found the OTF after.

Why are you constantly referring to the OTF? Just because I posted this thread here? Perhaps I should have created it in the GDF, where I would have been more likely to get better responses because the people who post there are that little bit worthier of being heard than the people here? To be honest, I've met some very interesting and inspiring people both in the GDF and the OTF; just because the OTF is considered the shithole of KMC that does not automatically mean every member who regularly posts in it is a shithead.

Again, I did not mention the OTF specifically in my first post. This thread was intended to ask why people are so hostile towards new members without reason and to see whether it would be worth making any extra effort to create more of a comfortable atmosphere for newcomers. I still don't think that's a negative idea.



Why not? Courtesy can never be considered a bad thing and I don't think you can provide too much of it. If anything, KMC needs to show more, that much is obvious to me. I also did not say I was going to lead my 'committee' around KMC and derail perfectly sensible threads just to get our welcome across. My whole point here was that if a new member makes a thread, or a first post out of the W.F, wherever it may be, we should try to make that new member feel welcome. I didn't say we were going to go out of our way to hunt down new members and crown them.



Ironically, I'm not what I would consider a patriot of queen and country. I don't tend to think about it and when I do, I just get pissed off with all the things that are wrong. Also, why do you automatically assume I'd be torn to shreds? Stop making assumptions about me, please. I cannot believe you're trying to make me feel stupid for making a thread with entirely good intentions



My panties are perfectly forward-facing, thank you. The achievement comes in submitting something positive to a conversation, you know this. Don't bother telling me you've never felt a sense of satisfaction during a discussion in the GDF. I know for a fact that you've probably felt a lot like a heavyweight champion when you've laid your 'smackdown' on some unsuspecting, yet ignorant, participant over there. You couldn't deny that feeling of achievement so please don't lie. It's human nature.



I understand that as a new member, the forum will naturally be a more daunting place than it is for the older members. But that's exactly my point; why should the older members have the right to make it even more so? If anything we should be trying to make it more comfortable as a natural response, again I'm asking you why you've chosen to approach this whole idea in a negative manner.

Also, I'm not in any way offended, please don't refer to my underwear again and please be aware that I'm appreciative of your effort here AC. It's not often we get the chance to see you doing what you do best over here in the OTF. I'm sure we're all honoured

I always find it funny how AC tries to elevate himself by putting others down.

He's not doing that, not here at least. As he said, he's voicing his opinion. And as I said, it's very welcome.

Originally posted by Bloigen
I always find it funny how AC tries to elevate himself by putting others down.

I always find it funny how Herb dances
herbdance

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If they're smart at all they can ignore the bashing, I did. That's what I don't get, this whole thing is about the bashing of new members, but they can ignore it.

Or alternatively, just not bring it on themselves.

-AC

Well not all people can coldly ignore bashing. Just because you ignored it, you somehow feel that makes you a better forum member than people who didnt ignore it?
What does being smart have to do with putting up with bashing? You seem to have the opinion that being cold, or not caring about other people's opinions is a sign of intelligence, as opposed to arrogance?
Not all members bring it on themselves, thats the point in giving them time to adjust!
Its a sad thing that this thread even has to be made, its even more tragic that some people cant see the point in simple courtesy to others.

You're right about giving the new members time to adjust, Xirius. That was the main point here, anyway. I just think that the bottom line is that our veteran members aren't in any way welcoming enough, all across the board. Common courtesy shouldn't be limited to the Welcome Forum alone.

Originally posted by Syren
Why are you constantly referring to the OTF? Just because I posted this thread here? Perhaps I should have created it in the GDF, where I would have been more likely to get better responses because the people who post there are that little bit worthier of being heard than the people here? To be honest, I've met some very interesting and inspiring people both in the GDF and the OTF; just because the OTF is considered the shithole of KMC that does not automatically mean every member who regularly posts in it is a shithead.

I didn't say they were, but if it's a matter of what forum has the more valuable members, then it's clearly the GDF. Even in the event that someone there is an idiot, at the very least they can form concise posts about a debate that you can discuss with. Hardly any "regular" and sole OTF dwellers do that. Either they can't or they don't want to, so it proves my point.

The same goes for the music forum. Infact, even less there, because if anything that's more critical. It applies more to the OTF because this is where most new member errant threads are moved to, where people are bashed, where all the "Kill the Noobs" threads are.

Originally posted by Syren
Again, I did not mention the OTF specifically in my first post. This thread was intended to ask why people are so hostile towards new members without reason and to see whether it would be worth making any extra effort to create more of a comfortable atmosphere for newcomers. I still don't think that's a negative idea.

Well you should have been clearer, really. If your intention isn't to make more effort to welcome new members, but to make it easier for them to post without being harassed, then that makes more sense. I proposed the same thing ages ago, but still, if they won't meet half way and stop posting like idiots, what can you do? People value Vinny...in the OTF, and look at his threads. Harmless, no worries there, but hardly anything of merit.

Originally posted by Syren
Why not? Courtesy can never be considered a bad thing and I don't think you can provide too much of it. If anything, KMC needs to show more, that much is obvious to me. I also did not say I was going to lead my 'committee' around KMC and derail perfectly sensible threads just to get our welcome across. My whole point here was that if a new member makes a thread, or a first post out of the W.F, wherever it may be, we should try to make that new member feel welcome. I didn't say we were going to go out of our way to hunt down new members and crown them.

As I said above, the purpose should be to stop OTFers trying to burn new members at the stake, but also, new members should try to post in a sensible way. If someone new posts in the GDF, and they happen to not be a sock, they won't get a word said to them if they have the ability to type properly.

You can usually tell when someone's established or if they intend to spam or sock. Socks or spammers usually have throwaway names like "Pinkgirl3737_827". As opposed to "Syren" or "Alpha Centauri". People who know they will be here often pick a suitable name, not some spam number. I just think it's better left to it's own devices, really. The ones that want to stay, will stay.

Originally posted by Syren
Ironically, I'm not what I would consider a patriot of queen and country. I don't tend to think about it and when I do, I just get pissed off with all the things that are wrong. Also, why do you automatically assume I'd be torn to shreds? Stop making assumptions about me, please. I cannot believe you're trying to make me feel stupid for making a thread with entirely good intentions

Well that's what patriotism means; Unquestionable devotion to one's country or homeland. Why am I assuming you'll get torn to shreds? Because if you have an unquestionable devotion to your country for some conditioned reason, to the point of defending patriotism, that's the only way you can go.

You can't help where you're born, so there's no point loving it for the sake of loving it. I love parts of London because I've grown to decide that I like it, I don't love "this country" because I was born here. A) I've never seen enough of the actual country to say I love it, and B) It's land.

Originally posted by Syren
My panties are perfectly forward-facing, thank you. The achievement comes in submitting something positive to a conversation, you know this. Don't bother telling me you've never felt a sense of satisfaction during a discussion in the GDF. I know for a fact that you've probably felt a lot like a heavyweight champion when you've laid your 'smackdown' on some unsuspecting, yet ignorant, participant over there. You couldn't deny that feeling of achievement so please don't lie. It's human nature.

So now you resort to OTF style debating also? Oh how the mighty fall.

It's not satisfaction at all, I get satisfaction after I do something that requires effort. Posting on this forum is effortless and nothing to be proud of. If everyone else is proud of me "laying the smackdown", then great. I couldn't care less, it's easy to me. You refusing to accept that I get no satisfaction out of it doesn't mean I do.

If it's hard for you to do so, to the point that doing it makes you feel satisfied, fine. Not to me.

Originally posted by Syren
I understand that as a new member, the forum will naturally be a more daunting place than it is for the older members. But that's exactly my point; why should the older members have the right to make it even more so? If anything we should be trying to make it more comfortable as a natural response, again I'm asking you why you've chosen to approach this whole idea in a negative manner.

Because you put it across as being something directed at the new members, rather than inspired by the new members and aimed at the older ones.

I still honestly don't see the point, as previously said, but if you feel you want to do it, do it.

Originally posted by Syren
Also, I'm not in any way offended, please don't refer to my underwear again and please be aware that I'm appreciative of your effort here AC. It's not often we get the chance to see you doing what you do best over here in the OTF. I'm sure we're all honoured

Fine, other twistable clothing will suffice, and I'm sure you all are.

-AC

Originally posted by Bloigen
There should be a herb laugh.

I was just thinking that exact same train of thought you projectedhmm

Originally posted by Syren
Ok, I've been thinking about this for some time now, since I wrote the KMC article on Wiki anyway. Basically I've noticed that although new members are always welcomed positively in the Welcome Forum it seems that as soon as they venture anywhere else on KMC they're generally ostracised within a very short space of time.

I know I, and a few others, have tried to keep the positive welcomes consistent but there are a lot of members who have been here for a while who constantly try to intimidate newer members, as though it's some kind of competition and something to be proud of. This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when you consider how many times I've seen people questioning KMC's overall atmosphere and wondering why it's spiralling downwards.

I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here, there's no reason to make them uncomfortable and if we were truly proud of the forum and our membership here then we'd all be doing this automatically. I say from now on, unless we're provided with obvious and valid reasons not to, we should all try to prove that KMC really is the best community on the net.

Who's with me? eyes You had me at hello.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Well you should have been clearer, really. If your intention isn't to make more effort to welcome new members, but to make it easier for them to post without being harassed, then that makes more sense. I proposed the same thing ages ago, but still, if they won't meet half way and stop posting like idiots, what can you do? People value Vinny...in the OTF, and look at his threads. Harmless, no worries there, but hardly anything of merit.



Because you put it across as being something directed at the new members, rather than inspired by the new members and aimed at the older ones.


These paragraphs give the impression that you saw the title and started forming arguments straight away, because if you had waited to read the opening post properly, without creating an opinion on it beforehand, you would have understood the point of the thread and who it was directed at.

Originally posted by Syren
Ok, I've been thinking about this for some time now, since I wrote the KMC article on Wiki anyway. Basically I've noticed that although new members are always welcomed positively in the Welcome Forum it seems that as soon as they venture anywhere else on KMC they're generally ostracised within a very short space of time.

I know I, and a few others, have tried to keep the positive welcomes consistent but there are a lot of members who have been here for a while who constantly try to intimidate newer members, as though it's some kind of competition and something to be proud of. This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when you consider how many times I've seen people questioning KMC's overall atmosphere and wondering why it's spiralling downwards.

I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here, there's no reason to make them uncomfortable and if we were truly proud of the forum and our membership here then we'd all be doing this automatically. I say from now on, unless we're provided with obvious and valid reasons not to, we should all try to prove that KMC really is the best community on the net.

Who's with me? eyes
I'm in.

Now where do I put the all the money I pick-pocked from n00bs over the month.

Originally posted by Xirius
These paragraphs give the impression that you saw the title and started forming arguments straight away, because if you had waited to read the opening post properly, without creating an opinion on it beforehand, you would have understood the point of the thread and who it was directed at.

It doesn't, does it? Because my argument couldn't be formed off the back of "Welcoming New Members.". Stop the exaggeration, please. Though admittedly...wait...let's go back, "Welcoming New Members.". What does that say to you?

"I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here."

Funny, because Syren said that. She never made it clear that her idea wasn't so much a welcoming committee, but trying to stop the new members being harassed, which is what she just said was her goal.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I didn't say they were, but if it's a matter of what forum has the more valuable members, then it's clearly the GDF. Even in the event that someone there is an idiot, at the very least they can form concise posts about a debate that you can discuss with. Hardly any "regular" and sole OTF dwellers do that. Either they can't or they don't want to, so it proves my point.

The same goes for the music forum. Infact, even less there, because if anything that's more critical. It applies more to the OTF because this is where most new member errant threads are moved to, where people are bashed, where all the "Kill the Noobs" threads are.

I agree, in a sense. Doesn't it depend on what each individual considers 'valuable'? If we're looking for mature, intelligent and overall well-written responses to serious discussions then we're going to head straight to the GDF. But if we're looking for relaxed, humorous and generally enjoyable fun we'll stick to the OTF. That's why there are separate boards, apart from the obvious segregation due to content. It's up to each member to decide where they want to post and why. But you're right, crap is tolerated in the OTF because it's the OTF and all the crap would inevitably end up elsewhere if it didn't exist. But that doesn't mean that the OTF-dwellers have more of a right to mutilate new members, plus I was talking in general about everyone's approach towards newcomers, not whether the GDF is better than the OTF. Surely this discussion would be better in the 'Our Beloved OTF' thread




I accept that I should have been clearer. My apologies for any confusion. I would rather newcomers were not harassed solely on the basis that they are newcomers, and allowed more time to find a niche and prove themselves as worthy members of the forum, no matter which board they decide to frequent most often.



I also agree that it's a two way thing, if the older members are going to make more of an effort with the newer members, then the newer members should perhaps try a little harder to make a good impression. Especially if they are looking to be accepted as a member of any worth and are intending to stay here long term.



Are we agreeing here? I don't recall saying we need to have an unquestionable devotion to KMC or our newcomers. I think I said that we should just try to be less hostile, as long as we aren't given valid reason to be. If you're referring to my asking why patriotism should be considered a bad thing, then I suppose I should clarify (again) what I meant. Pride in anything is fine, in my opinion, as long as it is validated. As you said, unquestionable devotion to something that is obviously unworthy is just ignorant and foolish.



I didn't resort to 'OTF style debating', although I appreciate your labelling me mighty

Are you saying it doesn't require effort, even mental, to drive your point home when someone is acting like an absolute ignoramus? I've seen you in full flow AC, I can imagine how frustrated you get when the person you're having a discussion with refuses to see your point. I get frustrated on your behalf just reading it! As I said, it's human nature to feel proud when you've proved someone wrong, especially when you know for a fact that you're 100% right and have many people agreeing with you. Whether you deny it or not, I can't believe you don't feel any kind of satisfaction; you're not infallible, you are human.




Again, I should have been clearer. I genuinely would like to see the hostility and loathing towards new members lessen, as would most people here. If we can achieve that then I'd be more inclined to feel proud of this forum.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It doesn't, does it? Because my argument couldn't be formed off the back of "Our Beloved OTF - Deleted?". Stop the exaggeration, please.

"I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here."

Funny, because Syren said that. She never made it clear that her idea wasn't so much a welcoming committee, but trying to stop the new members being harassed, which is what she just said was her goal.

-AC
Why do you make everything about the OTF? Its not, its about the attitudes of people on the whole forum.
You do realise that in quoting a single sentence there, you've actually backed up my point that you weren't paying attention to the whole post. It was clearly stated what the point of the thread was, but you only saw the things that backed up the argument you were forming based on your misconception.

Xirius, although I can sense an underlying issue here that's less to do with this thread and more to do with a distinct lack of appreciation on your part for the way AC conducts himself, and although I appreciate your responses and obvious support, I am aware that I should have been clearer with my intentions when I started this thread. AC was right about that. But, as we're in the OTF and as most of the regular posters here know me and probably guessed my intentions anyway, I'm not too worried about any negative comments regarding this thread. I just want out newer members to feel less intimidated when they join; I don't care about anyone's problems with that

Thanks though

Originally posted by Syren
I agree, in a sense. Doesn't it depend on what each individual considers 'valuable'? If we're looking for mature, intelligent and overall well-written responses to serious discussions then we're going to head straight to the GDF. But if we're looking for relaxed, humorous and generally enjoyable fun we'll stick to the OTF. That's why there are separate boards, apart from the obvious segregation due to content. It's up to each member to decide where they want to post and why. But you're right, crap is tolerated in the OTF because it's the OTF and all the crap would inevitably end up elsewhere if it didn't exist. But that doesn't mean that the OTF-dwellers have more of a right to mutilate new members, plus I was talking in general about everyone's approach towards newcomers, not whether the GDF is better than the OTF. Surely this discussion would be better in the 'Our Beloved OTF' thread

The OTF is a luxury afforded to members who simply can't grasp topics or don't wish to. It's a glorified chatroom, more or less, that's all.

If Raz chose to delete one forum, he would delete that with the least meaning, the OTF. If you want to chat, be sociable and things of that nature, you should go to a purely social forum or a chatroom, not a discussion board. Raz has allowed members this luxury, but that's all it is. It's not a valuable asset to the forum.

Originally posted by Syren
I accept that I should have been clearer. My apologies for any confusion. I would rather newcomers were not harassed solely on the basis that they are newcomers, and allowed more time to find a niche and prove themselves as worthy members of the forum, no matter which board they decide to frequent most often.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Syren
I also agree that it's a two way thing, if the older members are going to make more of an effort with the newer members, then the newer members should perhaps try a little harder to make a good impression. Especially if they are looking to be accepted as a member of any worth and are intending to stay here long term.

Also fair.

Originally posted by Syren
Are we agreeing here? I don't recall saying we need to have an unquestionable devotion to KMC or our newcomers. I think I said that we should just try to be less hostile, as long as we aren't given valid reason to be. If you're referring to my asking why patriotism should be considered a bad thing, then I suppose I should clarify (again) what I meant. Pride in anything is fine, in my opinion, as long as it is validated. As you said, unquestionable devotion to something that is obviously unworthy is just ignorant and foolish.Originally posted by Syren
I didn't resort to 'OTF style debating', although I appreciate your labelling me mighty

See, sense of achievement. That's what it's all about.

Originally posted by Syren
Are you saying it doesn't require effort, even mental, to drive your point home when someone is acting like an absolute ignoramus? I've seen you in full flow AC, I can imagine how frustrated you get when the person you're having a discussion with refuses to see your point. I get frustrated on your behalf just reading it! As I said, it's human nature to feel proud when you've proved someone wrong, especially when you know for a fact that you're 100% right and have many people agreeing with you. Whether you deny it or not, I can't believe you don't feel any kind of satisfaction; you're not infallible, you are human.

Let's review the key part of this post: "I can imagine how frustrated you get...". Yes, you can IMAGINE, that doesn't make it true. You get frustrated on my behalf, but I think we both know that we have different emotional dispositions, don't we?

I don't care whether you feel it's human nature or not, it's not a fact, because I am living proof that it's wrong, so are many people. It means nothing to me, because I don't debate in areas that I can prove people wrong unless I know I can. So therefore I'm not achieving anything by doing it, I already know I'm right. It's nothing to do with satisfaction.

Originally posted by Syren
Again, I should have been clearer. I genuinely would like to see the hostility and loathing towards new members lessen, as would most people here. If we can achieve that then I'd be more inclined to feel proud of this forum.

Why would you want to make effort to feel proud of this forum? Look at the threads.

Let's put this forward: The top used forum on the net comes to inspect KMC, you have to nominate one forum which indicated KMC deserves respect for its members and threads, right? How fast will you nominate the OTF with all it's Vinny threads, lounge threads and what not?

How fast will you nominate the GDF, with all its political, somewhat philosophical and mature debate topics? Members, also, for the most part being smarter.

I think we know.

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
Xirius, although I can sense an underlying issue here that's less to do with this thread and more to do with a distinct lack of appreciation on your part for the way AC conducts himself, and although I appreciate your responses and obvious support, I am aware that I should have been clearer with my intentions when I started this thread. AC was right about that. But, as we're in the OTF and as most of the regular posters here know me and probably guessed my intentions anyway, I'm not too worried about any negative comments regarding this thread. I just want out newer members to feel less intimidated when they join; I don't care about anyone's problems with that

Thanks though For some odd reason or another, I wasn't intimidated or taunted when I ventured out of the HP forum to the OTF. I was actually surprised, having read many of the recent posts, that I wasn't flamed to all hell for being a reletively new member. I do see a problem with n00bs getting bashed, but a lot of them bring it on themselves...

Oh, and...*Hands Xirius a life-ring*.

On account of all the diving you do, buddy. I can "swim", I don't need one.

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
Xirius, although I can sense an underlying issue here that's less to do with this thread and more to do with a distinct lack of appreciation on your part for the way AC conducts himself, and although I appreciate your responses and obvious support, I am aware that I should have been clearer with my intentions when I started this thread. AC was right about that. But, as we're in the OTF and as most of the regular posters here know me and probably guessed my intentions anyway, I'm not too worried about any negative comments regarding this thread. I just want out newer members to feel less intimidated when they join; I don't care about anyone's problems with that

Thanks though

Well, while you might have been clearer, on my part, I understood what you meant after having read your first post. Since AC seems to hold himself as very intelligent, and I dont doubt that he is, it doesnt make sense to me that he wouldnt be able to understand it, unless he was basing his arguments on assumptions made before he read the post.


And there aren't really any underlying issues, this is the first time Ive interacted with AC, at least that I can remember, and I generally dont form opininos on people straight away.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So now you resort to OTF style debating also? Oh how the mighty fall.


Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh, and...*Hands Xirius a life-ring*.

On account of all the diving you do, buddy. I can "swim", I don't need one.

-AC

Of course you can swim, hypocrisy is buoyant.

Originally posted by Xirius
Well, while you might have been clearer, on my part, I understood what you meant after having read your first post. Since AC seems to hold himself as very intelligent, and I dont doubt that he is, it doesnt make sense to me that he wouldnt be able to understand it, unless he was basing his arguments on assumptions made before he read the post.


And there aren't really any underlying issues, this is the first time Ive interacted with AC, at least that I can remember, and I generally dont form opininos on people straight away.

I'll explain it clearer since you appear to be locked in an epic struggle:

The post title is "Welcoming New Members.", so rather than taking it at face value, I read the post and she still came across in many ways as I proposed she was. She admits she wasn't clear, I wasn't misunderstanding her through any fault of my own. I read what was there and since then she has clarified her stance.

I told you, use the life-ring.

-AC

Originally posted by Xirius
Well, while you might have been clearer, on my part, I understood what you meant after having read your first post. Since AC seems to hold himself as very intelligent, and I dont doubt that he is, it doesnt make sense to me that he wouldnt be able to understand it, unless he was basing his arguments on assumptions made before he read the post.


And there aren't really any underlying issues, this is the first time Ive interacted with AC, at least that I can remember, and I generally dont form opininos on people straight away.

You just formed an opinion, based on limited interaction, that he is un-intelligent.

Originally posted by Xirius
Of course you can swim, hypocrisy is buoyant.

Technically that would just make me float, I said swim.

Nice try, though.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh, and...*Hands Xirius a life-ring*.

On account of all the diving you do, buddy. I can "swim", I don't need one.

-AC

Wow....I expected better of you, AC.

Damn, and there I was hoping to get sleep tonight. What will I do now?

-AC

Originally posted by ~Da Moose~
You just formed an opinion, based on limited interaction, that he is un-intelligent.

I clearly said I dont doubt he's intelligent.

Originally posted by Xirius
I clearly said I dont doubt he's intelligent.

Yet you clearly also did the opposite and at the very least, implied that I have some kind of lacking in the understanding dept, which has now ironically left you floating like some kind of buoyant hypocrite.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll explain it clearer since you appear to be locked in an epic struggle:

The post title is "Welcoming New Members.", so rather than taking it at face value, I read the post and she still came across in many ways as I proposed she was. She admits she wasn't clear, I wasn't misunderstanding her through any fault of my own. I read what was there and since then she has clarified her stance.

I told you, use the life-ring.

-AC

Yes, I can clearly see the title. The post seemed perfectly clear to me, so why wouldnt it have been to you?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Damn, and there I was hoping to get sleep tonight. What will I do now?

-AC

No, seriously. You attempt to knock down Syren saying she "used OTF debating" when you some and use it yourself. The hypocrisy is killing me. You seem bound and determined to prove that the OTF is worse than every other forum ever, but it's not. You will fail in that mission. The OTF serves a purpose, and if you fail to see that purpose, you're not as intelligent as I thought.

Originally posted by Xirius
I clearly said I dont doubt he's intelligent.

My bad....but still, you judged him, saying he was intelligent....

Just trying to save face here....

Originally posted by Xirius
Yes, I can clearly see the title. The post seemed perfectly clear to me, so why wouldnt it have been to you?

Because I read the post, and the title, both clearly point to the misleading idea that Syren is more focused on making effort to welcome rather than making effort to stop the new members being harassed.

She even went so far as to suggest a welcoming committee.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yet you clearly also did the opposite and at the very least, implied that I have some kind of lacking in the understanding dept, which has now ironically left you floating like some kind of buoyant hypocrite.

-AC

Intelligence comes in many forms. And everyone makes mistakes. Just because I said I thought you misunderstodd something, didnt mean that I thought you were mentally slow, or unintelligent in that, or any other regard. I simple meant that you misunderstood from the beginning and form opinions based on that. Thats it.

Now ironically, you once again misunderstood what was said, and once again formed an opinion based on it.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
No, seriously. You attempt to knock down Syren saying she "used OTF debating" when you some and use it yourself. The hypocrisy is killing me. You seem bound and determined to prove that the OTF is worse than every other forum ever, but it's not. You will fail in that mission. The OTF serves a purpose, and if you fail to see that purpose, you're not as intelligent as I thought.

Where, oh where do I start? I said she resorted to OTF debating as in the style of, not literally debating in the forum, and she realised that. Strike one for King.

Two: It is the "worst" forum if we're discussing thread content. I only ever raise the issue in threads related to said discussion. Strike two for King.

Three: I'm the one who said we should keep it because I AM aware of its purpose.

You're out.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The OTF is a luxury afforded to members who simply can't grasp topics or don't wish to. It's a glorified chatroom, more or less, that's all.

If Raz chose to delete one forum, he would delete that with the least meaning, the OTF. If you want to chat, be sociable and things of that nature, you should go to a purely social forum or a chatroom, not a discussion board. Raz has allowed members this luxury, but that's all it is. It's not a valuable asset to the forum.

I'm well aware of that fact and subsequently appreciative of Raz's efforts. I know that a lot of people who spend most, or all, of their time in the OTF are blissfully unaware that the OTF could be deleted at any moment with good reason, but again this thread is about treating new members with a little less hostility and portraying KMC in a better light and so forth. We're not discussing the future of the OTF, or how social KMC is or isn't, so quit it



Ok, fine. Yes, we have very different emotional dispositions, but do you have to take digs?? cry

Kidding... I'll take your word for it. You're probably an exception, I'm quite willing to believe that.



When I refer to 'the forum', are you aware that I mean KMC as a whole and NOT just the OTF? Because I think we've crossed wires here somewhere. I would like to feel proud of KMC in respect of the way we conduct ourselves when new members join. I would like the forum as an entirety to be a more comfortable place for newcomers to post, no matter which board they spend the most time in.

And yes, if that were ever to happen I'd nominate the GDF. But again, that's not the issue here.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because I read the post, and the title, both clearly point to the misleading idea that Syren is more focused on making effort to welcome rather than making effort to stop the new members being harassed.

She even went so far as to suggest a welcoming committee.

-AC

the title, yes that does point to that opinion, but, to me anyway, the post itself seemed pretty clear.
Although, if you'd like to repeat your post again , using slightly different words, feel free, I can tell you enjoy doing it so much.

Originally posted by Xirius
Intelligence comes in many forms. And everyone makes mistakes. Just because I said I thought you misunderstodd something, didnt mean that I thought you were mentally slow, or unintelligent in that, or any other regard. I simple meant that you misunderstood from the beginning and form opinions based on that. Thats it.

Now ironically, you once again misunderstood what was said, and once again formed an opinion based on it.

I assumed that you thought I have a lack of understanding, which you clearly did, as you said I misunderstood something blatantly clear.

So I'm technically correct there. Moose said you called me unintelligent, I didn't. I said you did the opposite to not forming an opinion.

-AC

gah...this is boring...I'm going to the GDF for some laughs....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Where, oh where do I start? I said she resorted to OTF debating as in the style of, not literally debating in the forum, and she realised that. Strike one for King.

He quite cleary meant that you yourself had resorted to debating in the "style" of the OTF when you made that life-ring remark.
Hence the hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Where, oh where do I start? I said she resorted to OTF debating as in the style of, not literally debating in the forum, and she realised that. Strike one for King.

Two: It is the "worst" forum if we're discussing thread content. I only ever raise the issue in threads related to said discussion. Strike two for King.

Three: I'm the one who said we should keep it because I AM aware of its purpose.

You're out.

-AC
Strike 2 didn't prove anything, and I didn't swing at the pitch. The coun is 1-2

I actually NEVER go to the welcome forum...well except the day I started here

Originally posted by BlackSunshine
I actually NEVER go to the welcome forum...well except the day I started here
I never went to the welcome forum. Ever.

Originally posted by Xirius
the title, yes that does point to that opinion, but, to me anyway, the post itself seemed pretty clear.
Although, if you'd like to repeat your post again , using slightly different words, feel free, I can tell you enjoy doing it so much.

The key words there are "To you, anyway". Syren (that chick who posted said post) admitted that she should have clarified and wasn't clear enough.

So either you are perceptive to superhuman level, or you are acting as though you understood to get your point across. I have the back up of the thread starter, you don't.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because I read the post, and the title, both clearly point to the misleading idea that Syren is more focused on making effort to welcome rather than making effort to stop the new members being harassed.

She even went so far as to suggest a welcoming committee.

-AC

Oh god, I already clarified myself. I can't edit my initial post, I would if I could. Have the decency to get over it?

Also, the 'welcoming committee' was a joke, hence the cookie proposition. You can very well see that so stop using it as ammunition. Remember where we are please.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I
Moose said you called me unintelligent, I didn't. I said you did the opposite to not forming an opinion.

-AC

I misread it....but he did call you intelligent, so technically, he said he didn't form opinions of people in a short period of time, (something like that) so, therefore, my assertation that he was incorrect was in fact, erm, correct.

I'm leaving....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I assumed that you thought I have a lack of understanding, which you clearly did, as you said I misunderstood something blatantly clear.

So I'm technically correct there. Moose said you called me unintelligent, I didn't. I said you did the opposite to not forming an opinion.

-AC

As I said, everyone makes mistakes, so I didnt form an opinoin of you based on this one opinon. And I didnt say you lack understanding, I said that you seemed to have based your understanding on a single point, (the title), and used that to form all other ideas.
I said you made a mistake, that doesnt seem like Ive formed an opinion on you because of it. As I said, everyone makes mistakes.

Originally posted by Xirius
He quite cleary meant that you yourself had resorted to debating in the "style" of the OTF when you made that life-ring remark.
Hence the hypocrisy.

Wow, you ARE psychic, and your name begins with X, so from now on you're known as Prof.

Considering I am the one who most notably uses said remarks in the GDF before I even came to the OTF, I'd suggest research on your part.

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
Oh god, I already clarified myself. I can't edit my initial post, I would if I could. Have the decency to get over it?

Also, the 'welcoming committee' was a joke, hence the cookie proposition. You can very well see that so stop using it as ammunition. Remember where we are please.

Which is why I am continually saying that you clarified youself, remember where we are please.

-AC

Originally posted by ~Da Moose~
I misread it....but he did call you intelligent, so technically, he said he didn't form opinions of people in a short period of time, (something like that) so, therefore, my assertation that he was incorrect was in fact, erm, correct.

I'm leaving....

I said he seems to consider himself intelligent, not that I do.

Stop derailing the thread you 'orrible lot! nono

If you have issues with one another, please take it elsewhere. I'm beginning to regret starting this thread.

I'm gonna go bash some n00bs in a minute to make myself feel better disgust

I'm all for welcoming new members. I believe it's the only way the forums will progress.

I'm cool with them unless they start stupid bashing or petty name calling.

I like to welcome new people. The more different people we get in here, the more diverse disscussions and opinions we're likely to get. And isn't that what this is all about?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Which is why I am continually saying that you clarified youself, remember where we are please.

-AC

Quoting me directly is both immature and offensive. Plus, I imagined you saying it in my voice, which is plain weird.

Originally posted by Syren
I'm well aware of that fact and subsequently appreciative of Raz's efforts. I know that a lot of people who spend most, or all, of their time in the OTF are blissfully unaware that the OTF could be deleted at any moment with good reason, but again this thread is about treating new members with a little less hostility and portraying KMC in a better light and so forth. We're not discussing the future of the OTF, or how social KMC is or isn't, so quit it

That's precisely what we're discussing.

Originally posted by Syren
Ok, fine. Yes, we have very different emotional dispositions, but do you have to take digs?? cry

Kidding... I'll take your word for it. You're probably an exception, I'm quite willing to believe that.

There we go, then.

Originally posted by Syren
When I refer to 'the forum', are you aware that I mean KMC as a whole and NOT just the OTF? Because I think we've crossed wires here somewhere. I would like to feel proud of KMC in respect of the way we conduct ourselves when new members join. I would like the forum as an entirety to be a more comfortable place for newcomers to post, no matter which board they spend the most time in.

I'm entirely aware you mean the entire forum, yes.

Originally posted by Syren
And yes, if that were ever to happen I'd nominate the GDF. But again, that's not the issue here.

If we're discussing being proud of the OTF, then yes it is. Which was my hypothetical point, but we're not, so I agree.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wow, you ARE psychic, and your name begins with X, so from now on you're known as Prof.

Considering I am the one who most notably uses said remarks in the GDF before I even came to the OTF, I'd suggest research on your part.

-AC

More hypocrisy, Didnt you just say that OTF style debating had nothing to do with where it was used, but more with the style of the argument?

And yet here you claim, that because you used similarly weak, and childich tactics in a different forum, that they dont count as OTF style, whereas Syren's less pointless, more intelligent post did?

Blatant hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Syren
Quoting me directly is both immature and offensive. Plus, I imagined you saying it in my voice, which is plain weird.

I truly do wish I could help you there, but it's not my problem.

Xirius is the psychic one, not me, maybe he's the one making you imagine things.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I truly do wish I could help you there, but it's not my problem.

Xirius is the psychic one, not me, maybe he's the one making you imagine things.

-AC Wow. You fit in the OTF so well. Right in there with all the other ignorant anti-socials, right Fire?

Originally posted by Xirius
More hypocrisy, Didnt you just say that OTF style debating had nothing to do with where it was used, but more with the style of the argument?

And yet here you claim, that because you used similarly weak, and childich tactics in a different forum, that they dont count as OTF style, whereas Syren's less pointless, more intelligent post did?

Blatant hypocrisy.

Weak, in your case, is a biased point of view, first off.

OTF style of debate isn't necessarily a tactic used with the intent of showing someone up or proving a point with that as a conduit, it's a way of conducting yourself, which she then used.

It's nice to also see that you've gone back on yourself, because regardless of what you believe, Syren and I are discussing something thet is able to be discussed, far from being pointless. You have been reduced to someone struggling for any kind of point to win, be it on topic to the thread or not, and still getting it wrong.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Xirius is the psychic one, not me, maybe he's the one making you imagine things.

-AC

Now come on, thats clearly some more "OTF style" posting. Just because I actually try to understand what people post instead of assuming them to be sub-par arguments, as you seem to, you begin this, frankly pathetic taunting. I wouldn't mind these except you clearly see yourself as above this thread, and yet post mindless crap that most people here would never stoop to.

If Kings of Kings was "Out" after this third strike, then you should be too.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
Wow. You fit in the OTF so well. Right in there with all the other ignorant anti-socials, right Fire?

I believe me and Syren are discussing something, so if your rabid swings and misses were all you'll attempt to add, I suggest you leave us to it, because you're not being anti-social by breaking up a perfectly pleasant discussion in favour of getting attention.

Like Xirius.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's precisely what we're discussing.

The popularity and point of the OTF vs the popularity and point of the GDF? Not last time I checked.



Then why do you constantly refer to the OTF to back up your point? Because I posted the thread here? I was talking about KMC as a whole and posted it here because this forum is usually the most lively. No other reason. GDFers have posted here since I've made this thread, so I've got responses from all across the board.

Originally posted by Xirius
Now come on, thats clearly some more "OTF style" posting. Just because I actually try to understand what people post instead of assuming them to be sub-par arguments, as you seem to, you begin this, frankly pathetic taunting. I wouldn't mind these except you clearly see yourself as above this thread, and yet post mindless crap that most people here would never stoop to.

If Kings of Kings was "Out" after this third strike, then you should be too.

The irony is, I said Syren was resorting to it in a post that doesn't require it, I never said that I was incapable of posting smarmy, sarcastic remarks, which was the sole intent of that post.

Try getting something right, just once at least, or leave Syren and I to discuss our issue.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The irony is, I said Syren was resorting to it in a post that doesn't require it, I never said that I was incapable of posting smarmy, sarcastic remarks, which was the sole intent of that post.

Try getting something right, just once at least, or leave Syren and I to discuss our issue.

-AC



Smarmy and sarcastic, just the way I'd bottle you... also, I'm loving all this 'Syren and I' reference; it's nice.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I believe me and Syren are discussing something, so if your rabid swings and misses were all you'll attempt to add, I suggest you leave us to it, because you're not being anti-social by breaking up a perfectly pleasant discussion in favour of getting attention.

Like Xirius.

-AC How quick you are to jump to conclusions....

These "rabid swings" I'm taking is my way of rehashing yours towards Xirius and myself. I'd join in throughly on this "pleasent" conversation, but I woke up an hour ago and I'm still pretty tired.

Originally posted by Syren
The popularity and point of the OTF vs the popularity and point of the GDF? Not last time I checked.

We're discussing why this particular part of the forum is anything to be proud of, which you said is something you'd like to achieve. I've given reason why it isn't something to be proud of.

Originally posted by Syren
Then why do you constantly refer to the OTF to back up your point? Because I posted the thread here? I was talking about KMC as a whole and posted it here because this forum is usually the most lively. No other reason. GDFers have posted here since I've made this thread, so I've got responses from all across the board.

First and foremost, the OTFers will defend the OTF regardless of what it is, so you are likely to get biased replies in here.

Secondly, I know you are referring to KMC as a whole, but you also referred to the OTF. My main point conjoining the two is: I personally don't grasp why you make effort to be proud of an internet forum. That, however, is purely opinion and you can naturally do as you wish.

-AC

I'm just waiting for one of you guys to let your ego take a hit so we can all talk about the thread topic.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
These "rabid swings" I'm taking is my way of rehashing yours towards Xirius and myself. I'd join in throughly on this "pleasent" conversation, but I woke up an hour ago and I'm still pretty tired.

The difference is, my swings end up with the ball landing outside the "park" with a significant, cartoon-style thumb.

Yours end with a significant "Whoosh" sound, due to missing, as I proved when I dissected your claims.

Anything else?

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
Ok, I've been thinking about this for some time now, since I wrote the KMC article on Wiki anyway. Basically I've noticed that although new members are always welcomed positively in the Welcome Forum it seems that as soon as they venture anywhere else on KMC they're generally ostracised within a very short space of time.

I know I, and a few others, have tried to keep the positive welcomes consistent but there are a lot of members who have been here for a while who constantly try to intimidate newer members, as though it's some kind of competition and something to be proud of. This makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when you consider how many times I've seen people questioning KMC's overall atmosphere and wondering why it's spiralling downwards.

I think that we should ALL make every effort to make new members feel 100% welcome here, there's no reason to make them uncomfortable and if we were truly proud of the forum and our membership here then we'd all be doing this automatically. I say from now on, unless we're provided with obvious and valid reasons not to, we should all try to prove that KMC really is the best community on the net.

Who's with me? eyes I didn't read all that.



but welcoming n00bs in to the community is cool I guess.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Weak, in your case, is a biased point of view, first off.

OTF style of debate isn't necessarily a tactic used with the intent of showing someone up or proving a point with that as a conduit, it's a way of conducting yourself, which she then used.

Yeah, thats actually the point of view I meant it from. You used childish and pointless taunts, most of which are below the actualy standards of people in the OTF. Hence, you are a hypocrite for accusing Syren of it, whe the post she used was composed of more intelligence and logic than what you said.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's nice to also see that you've gone back on yourself, because regardless of what you believe, Syren and I are discussing something thet is able to be discussed, far from being pointless. You have been reduced to someone struggling for any kind of point to win, be it on topic to the thread or not, and still getting it wrong.

-AC

Im not saying the conversation is pointless, Im saying that your childess taunts. Im not struggling to win, I was just pointing out what I saw this thread to actually be about. The more I did this, the more you replied with senseless crap. Im still getting it wrong? You're the one who's still using the whole "The opening post was unclear" line, even though Syren has repeatedly noted this, its irrelevant to bring it up anymore, its been established that you found it unclear.

The more you go on, the more you reduce your argument to that of "OTF" standard, which is actually kind of funny.

Originally posted by LethalFemme
Sorry I almost missed that post in this fog of arrogance.
Same here... and I wrote the bloody thing.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The irony is, I said Syren was resorting to it in a post that doesn't require it, I never said that I was incapable of posting smarmy, sarcastic remarks, which was the sole intent of that post.

Try getting something right, just once at least, or leave Syren and I to discuss our issue.

-AC

At what point in the argument was a "life ring" required?
Im losing count of the amount of hypocritical posts you're making.

And for the record, I was, and am willing to take part in the "pleasant conversation", you're the one who took it off-topic, so its really our fault if its become less "pleasant"

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The difference is, my swings end up with the ball landing outside the "park" with a significant, cartoon-style thumb.

Yours end with a significant "Whoosh" sound, due to missing, as I proved when I dissected your claims.

Anything else?

-AC
As you proved in a biased hypocritical way? You really made yourself seem more unintelligent that I in that post. And being more unintelligent than me is a pretty freaking hard thing to do.

I would also like to mention the fact that even though you're so against the OTF, you stoop to the maturity of the average stupid OTF'er, and use a condescending attitude. As well as acting like your opinions are proven fact. That proves your ignorant, and not open to the opinions of the general public. Just a select few.

You act superior than the rest of the OTF, yet you fail to prove to anyone that you're even on par.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
We're discussing why this particular part of the forum is anything to be proud of, which you said is something you'd like to achieve. I've given reason why it isn't something to be proud of.

No, we're not. I've never said anything about whether the OTF is a forum to be proud of unless it was in response to you, and to state that I've never said that. The only thing I mentioned being proud of is KMC as a whole and that I'd be more proud of KMC (as a whole) if our members were more welcoming towards the newcomers.

I didn't mention this particular part of the forum, AC, at least not until you did. Check if you have to



I'm not making the effort so that I can be proud of KMC, that would probably be a consequence but it's not for that reason. I genuinely want newcomers to be more comfortable and treated fairly. That's the whole reason for this thread. So I decorated it with a little silliness, is that the reason you questioned its existence?

Originally posted by Xirius
Yeah, thats actually the point of view I meant it from. You used childish and pointless taunts, most of which are below the actualy standards of people in the OTF. Hence, you are a hypocrite for accusing Syren of it, whe the post she used was composed of more intelligence and logic than what you said.

Hypocrite for accusing Syren of it? How am I? I accused her of resorting to it in a debate where she can do better than that, I never said using it at all is stupid, or "OTF" style action posts are wrong.

So it's not really hypocricy is it? It's more like...you misunderstanding.

Originally posted by Xirius
Im not saying the conversation is pointless, Im saying that your childess taunts. Im not struggling to win, I was just pointing out what I saw this thread to actually be about. The more I did this, the more you replied with senseless crap. Im still getting it wrong? You're the one who's still using the whole "The opening post was unclear" line, even though Syren has repeatedly noted this, its irrelevant to bring it up anymore, its been established that you found it unclear.

The more you go on, the more you reduce your argument to that of "OTF" standard, which is actually kind of funny.

Senseless crap, me? What would you call the above paragraph then?

Syren and I have long since passed the whole clarity of the issue, you are the one still dwelling on it, which is why I have to specify the idea. I'm not bringing it up to rub it in Syren's face that she was unclear, she knows she was, she apologised and I accepted her apology.

You have got yourself very confused and now you're too far in to admit such. It honestly doesn't bother me, I don't debate unless I know I'm right and/or can back it up. I'll always have an answer because I always have my bases covered, I'm not stupid. Which means your claims will only get more and more silly. Proceed as you wish.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The difference is, my swings end up with the ball landing outside the "park" with a significant, cartoon-style thumb.

Yours end with a significant "Whoosh" sound, due to missing, as I proved when I dissected your claims.

Anything else?

-AC

No, the difference is that you're folding back on yourself regularly with hypocrisy. Every one of your points has been shown as a) formed on misconceptions, b) basically wrong or c)overflowing with hypocrisy.

Originally posted by Xirius
At what point in the argument was a "life ring" required?
Im losing count of the amount of hypocritical posts you're making.

Note the fact that it was a two-line post, segregated from any argument and posted with the sole purpose of being smarmy and sarcastic.

It wasn't in the context of any argument. Go on...continue.

Originally posted by Xirius
And for the record, I was, and am willing to take part in the "pleasant conversation", you're the one who took it off-topic, so its really our fault if its become less "pleasant"

Not really. Syren hasn't got a problem with moving on with the discussion at hand, has she? I don't either. The only ones keeping it this way are you and Kings.

-AC

Originally posted by LethalFemme
It'll tire itself out in the end and this thread will either turn to sex or remain as a failed attempt for trying to bring order to the OTF.
Nah, it's just A.C. trying to kick sand in the OTF's face.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hypocrite for accusing Syren of it? How am I? I accused her of resorting to it in a debate where she can do better than that, I never said using it at all is stupid, or "OTF" style action posts are wrong.

So it's not really hypocricy is it? It's more like...you misunderstanding.



Senseless crap, me? What would you call the above paragraph then?

Syren and I have long since passed the whole clarity of the issue, you are the one still dwelling on it, which is why I have to specify the idea. I'm not bringing it up to rub it in Syren's face that she was unclear, she knows she was, she apologised and I accepted her apology.

You have got yourself very confused and now you're too far in to admit such. It honestly doesn't bother me, I don't debate unless I know I'm right and/or can back it up. I'll always have an answer because I always have my bases covered, I'm not stupid. Which means your claims will only get more and more silly. Proceed as you wish.

-AC

AC, I'll ask you outright as you'll probably be more likely to listen.

Could you find it in you to step away from this discussion? I'm happy to continue talking with you as I feel we were getting somewhere, but the conversation you're having with Xirius is going round in circles, I'm sure you're aware of that. I'm not a mod so I can't really expect you to agree, but would you mind? I'd like to get back on topic now I've clarified things, and as LethalFemme said, it's hard to see the on-topic responses for all the arrogant smog

Originally posted by LethalFemme
It'll tire itself out in the end and this thread will either turn to sex or remain as a failed attempt for trying to bring order to the OTF.

Yeah, probably.... or someone will just leave and there'll be a member left arguing with themselves.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
As you proved in a biased hypocritical way? You really made yourself seem more unintelligent that I in that post. And being more unintelligent than me is a pretty freaking hard thing to do.

Let's be honest, I didn't do any of that did I? No. If you want to make yourself feel good, get a voice affirmation box. Don't sit there hyping yourself up by telling yourself that you're unintelligent, that's just silly, haha.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
I would also like to mention the fact that even though you're so against the OTF, you stoop to the maturity of the average stupid OTF'er, and use a condescending attitude. As well as acting like your opinions are proven fact. That proves your ignorant, and not open to the opinions of the general public. Just a select few.

I would also like to mention that I'm not, never have been and never will be against the OTF. Swing and a miss, yet again.

Secondly, it has nothing to do with being open to opinions. I specifically just said to Syren that regardless of me disagreeing with hers, she is entitled to it, it doesn't affect me. Swing and a miss, twice in one paragraph.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
You act superior than the rest of the OTF, yet you fail to prove to anyone that you're even on par.

I've got nothing to prove on this site, especially to you.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Hypocrite for accusing Syren of it? How am I? I accused her of resorting to it in a debate where she can do better than that, I never said using it at all is stupid, or "OTF" style action posts are wrong.

So it's not really hypocricy is it? It's more like...you misunderstanding.



Senseless crap, me? What would you call the above paragraph then?

Syren and I have long since passed the whole clarity of the issue, you are the one still dwelling on it, which is why I have to specify the idea. I'm not bringing it up to rub it in Syren's face that she was unclear, she knows she was, she apologised and I accepted her apology.

You have got yourself very confused and now you're too far in to admit such. It honestly doesn't bother me, I don't debate unless I know I'm right and/or can back it up. I'll always have an answer because I always have my bases covered, I'm not stupid. Which means your claims will only get more and more silly. Proceed as you wish.

-AC

It hypocrosy in that you clearly hold yourself as being above OTF standards, as youve clearly said in this and other threads, and yet you resort to childish taunts of a nature that are far below its standards.
Seriously, next time you post, make sure you havent already posted the exact same argument, its getting boring to have to disprove the same thing over and over again. It's not that Im misunderstanding, its more that you assume my argument to be something based on condescneding assumptions.

Goddamnit, let GO of your f.ucking egos for once in your lives. If I've overcome the urge to tread on people during a discussion then I'm sure you're all capable of it. I'm one of the most egotistical, obnoxious people I know.

Please, move on. You're all being exceedingly ridiculous. This is just proving my point about the abundance of hostility and negative atmosphere in the forum as a whole. No wonder new members either don't stay long or choose to rebel just to vent some frustration.

Originally posted by Syren
AC, I'll ask you outright as you'll probably be more likely to listen.

Could you find it in you to step away from this discussion? I'm happy to continue talking with you as I feel we were getting somewhere, but the conversation you're having with Xirius is going round in circles, I'm sure you're aware of that. I'm not a mod so I can't really expect you to agree, but would you mind? I'd like to get back on topic now I've clarified things, and as LethalFemme said, it's hard to see the on-topic responses for all the arrogant smog

Ill stop the argument, but I will just say that AC needs to stop bashing the OTF and then stooping far below it, its kind of pathetic.



So, back on topic then?

Originally posted by Syren
No, we're not. I've never said anything about whether the OTF is a forum to be proud of unless it was in response to you, and to state that I've never said that. The only thing I mentioned being proud of is KMC as a whole and that I'd be more proud of KMC (as a whole) if our members were more welcoming towards the newcomers.

I didn't mention this particular part of the forum, AC, at least not until you did. Check if you have to

You said that you'd like the OTF to be a place to be proud of.

Originally posted by Syren
I'm not making the effort so that I can be proud of KMC, that would probably be a consequence but it's not for that reason. I genuinely want newcomers to be more comfortable and treated fairly. That's the whole reason for this thread. So I decorated it with a little silliness, is that the reason you questioned its existence?

Like I said, you can do entirely as you wish, I'm just asking questions to get answers. If you had did exactly as you intended to do, clearly (which you clarified in the end), then I wouldn't have made the post I did. You don't get answers without asking questions.

Originally posted by Syren
Could you find it in you to step away from this discussion? I'm happy to continue talking with you as I feel we were getting somewhere, but the conversation you're having with Xirius is going round in circles, I'm sure you're aware of that. I'm not a mod so I can't really expect you to agree, but would you mind? I'd like to get back on topic now I've clarified things, and as LethalFemme said, it's hard to see the on-topic responses for all the arrogant smog

Most definitely, out of respect for you asking pleasantly, I will reply to him or anyone else now, via PMs.

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
Goddamnit, let GO of your f.ucking egos for once in your lives. If I've overcome the urge to tread on people during a discussion then I'm sure you're all capable of it. I'm one of the most egotistical, obnoxious people I know.

Please, move on. You're all being exceedingly ridiculous. This is just proving my point about the abundance of hostility and negative atmosphere in the forum as a whole. No wonder new members either don't stay long or choose to rebel just to vent some frustration.

I think it's done.

Yeah, n00bs can be cool.


Let's be nice to them and such herbnone

Originally posted by Xirius
Ill stop the argument, but I will just say that AC needs to stop bashing the OTF and then stooping far below it, its kind of pathetic.



So, back on topic then?

I'll ask for an apology considering I've never been against the OTF, I've even voted against its deletion. I just accept and highlight what it is.

So apologise for assuming that I bash the OTF.

-AC

Thank you guys... and, incidentally, I'm kinda pleased with most of the discussion held here. It's got to be a rarity in the OTF

Edit; AC, I can see you.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll ask for an apology considering I've never been against the OTF, I've even voted against its deletion. I just accept and highlight what it is.

So apologise for assuming that I bash the OTF.

-AC
Even though you have bashed the OTF several times today?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll ask for an apology considering I've never been against the OTF, I've even voted against its deletion. I just accept and highlight what it is.

So apologise for assuming that I bash the OTF.

-AC

No thanks.

Back. On. Topic.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
Even though you have bashed the OTF several times today?

Dont worry about it, let's just get back on topic.

Originally posted by Xirius
No thanks.

Back. On. Topic.
Yes...the topic.


Um....eating Jew...wait no.


Being nicer to n00bs, that's it.

Yeah, we should totally do that.

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
Even though you have bashed the OTF several times today?



Hey, you, ignorant!

(seeing the words 'back on topic' being used in the OTF brings a tear to my eye)

Originally posted by Syren


Hey, you, ignorant! Wha?


yeah, back on topic in the otf? cry

You guys are all so pretentious... it's rather funny.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll ask for an apology considering I've never been against the OTF, I've even voted against its deletion. I just accept and highlight what it is.

So apologise for assuming that I bash the OTF.

-AC

Sweetie you have every right to think and say what you feel but, so does everyone else and at some point who have to just ignore them or everything becomes an argument for mental superiority.

As if we even need to argue over mental superiority. You all know I'm a genius.

Originally posted by LethalFemme
Sweetie you have every right to think and say what you feel but, so does everyone else and at some point who have to just ignore them or everything becomes an argument for mental superiority.

How does that have any relevance to my post? He made an assumption that is the exact opposite of my beliefs and won't apologise for doing such, that's cool with me, just proves my point. I've contacted both of them personally, so we can keep it off the forum.

Now we can move on.

-AC

Originally posted by Syren
As if we even need to argue over mental superiority. You all know I'm a genius.
Of course.

But seriously, let's start talking about welcoming newbies to the OTF.

I personally believe having someone like Pandora or Silver_tears have sex with every male n00b, and mist or Manard with every femal n00b. That'll make everyone feel welcome.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How does that have any relevance to my post? He made an assumption that is the exact opposite of my beliefs and won't apologise for doing such, that's cool with me, just proves my point. I've contacted both of them personally, so we can keep it off the forum.

Now we can move on.

-AC

I was replying to your post because in all honesty you seemed like the only one(from what I've seen of your post previously) who could be brought to reason.

Originally posted by Syren
As if we even need to argue over mental superiority. You all know I'm a genius.
"Y'all", Syren.

Originally posted by Xirius
Pretentious? Moi?

Oui...

Originally posted by DarkC
"Y'all", Syren.

Ah ain't sayin' that, thurs no way y'all're gettin' me to say it.

Originally posted by Syren
As if we even need to argue over mental superiority. You all know I'm a genius.

Of course naturally sweetie you knew I was talking about you.winkiss

eyes

Did I tell you how much you mean to me lately?

Originally posted by TheKingofKINGS!
Of course.

But seriously, let's start talking about welcoming newbies to the OTF.

I personally believe having someone like Pandora or Silver_tears have sex with every male n00b, and mist or Manard with every femal n00b. That'll make everyone feel welcome. Yeah!

Originally posted by Syren
eyes

Did I tell you how much you mean to me lately?

You don't have to.eyes

So, new members. Should the harassment and general rudeness be decreased to as much of a minimum as possible?

No, all new members should be bashed. Bashed until their posts are bad enough to get banned, insuring no new members and a perfect circle of KMC.

Idiot, why you're still here is beyond me

Originally posted by Syren
Idiot, why you're still here is beyond me

Because I sleep with the mods.

Originally posted by Syren


So, new members. Should the harassment and general rudeness be decreased to as much of a minimum as possible?

Unfortunately that depends. Not each new member is going to be a valuable asset to KMC or are even that "new" if you know what I mean. Sad to say it's case by case type thing.

New members should be bashed actually. Many m00bs have bettered themselves because they were bashed. The ones that can't take it, or get banned because they bash back? They failed KMC's test. It's like a rite of passage every n00b goes through.