Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Does a degree only hold respect from others with degrees?

It appears in my real world experience and on-line experience that uneducated individuals do not hold much regard for a college level education or the statements made by those with the education. This baffles me as I would not disregard my plumbers statements on my plumbing, his education in that area is much more valid than mine.

I am not saying that an education makes a person better in any way, but it does provide them with knowledge that is more thorough in regards to their given field of study.

Given this, am I correct in my observation, or am I only seeing the extreme examples? If you agree or disagree with this attitude, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Originally posted by Regret
Does a degree only hold respect from others with degrees?

It appears in my real world experience and on-line experience that uneducated individuals do not hold much regard for a college level education or the statements made by those with the education. This baffles me as I would not disregard my plumbers statements on my plumbing, his education in that area is much more valid than mine.

I am not saying that an education makes a person better in any way, but it does provide them with knowledge that is more thorough in regards to their given field of study.

Given this, am I correct in my observation, or am I only seeing the extreme examples? If you agree or disagree with this attitude, your thoughts would be appreciated.

I respect that, but I have a degree. I know what a pain in the butt it is to do what it takes to get a degree, so I respect it.

First, I think we need to separate the terms degree and education. You can be educated without having a degree. And you can be uneducated and still have a degree.

I personally respect knowledge and I respect people that are able to present their knowledge, I won't jsut respect someone for having a degree though.

My respect has to be earned, you don't get it because of your background and I personally like ti believe that my sense of who knows his stuff and who doesn't works well enough.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And you can be uneducated and still have a degree.

Originally posted by Bardock42
First, I think we need to separate the terms degree and education. You can be educated without having a degree. And you can be uneducated and still have a degree.

I personally respect knowledge and I respect people that are able to present their knowledge, I won't jsut respect someone for having a degree though.

My respect has to be earned, you don't get it because of your background and I personally like ti believe that my sense of who knows his stuff and who doesn't works well enough.

Agree with this 100%.

Originally posted by Bardock42
First, I think we need to separate the terms degree and education. You can be educated without having a degree. And you can be uneducated and still have a degree.

I personally respect knowledge and I respect people that are able to present their knowledge, I won't jsut respect someone for having a degree though.

My respect has to be earned, you don't get it because of your background and I personally like ti believe that my sense of who knows his stuff and who doesn't works well enough.

I think I am referring mainly to degrees with this thread.

So... does a degree garner no respect from you then?

And, just for point of reference with relation to the instigating post, if you feel comfortable answering, do you have a degree?

Edit: Similar response for Backfire, since he agreed 100%

A degree shouldn't give a person respect by default. it's just a piece of paper saying they read some books and retained some information long enough to pass some tests. Has shit to do with intelligence or the warrant of respect.

the fact that someone gets a degree is only proof that they can apply themselves with some measure of dedication

employers who ask for people with degree level education dont really care what the degree is...just that the potential employee has got one...this is because most jobs require "on the job" training

obviously some more specialised careers need more specific skills from certain courses...science for instance

i am in the middle of a forensic science honours degree myself...and while this could lead to scenes of crime or forensic lab work it could also lead into the pharmacuetical industry...the oil industry or any other science based industry

Originally posted by BackFire
A degree shouldn't give a person respect by default. it's just a piece of paper saying they read some books and retained some information long enough to pass some tests. Has shit to do with intelligence or the warrant of respect.

Alright, and if you are comfortable answering, degree or no degree?

No degree yet, but am working on it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
First, I think we need to separate the terms degree and education. You can be educated without having a degree. And you can be uneducated and still have a degree.

I personally respect knowledge and I respect people that are able to present their knowledge, I won't jsut respect someone for having a degree though.

My respect has to be earned, you don't get it because of your background and I personally like ti believe that my sense of who knows his stuff and who doesn't works well enough.

Not at the school I attended. Are you talking about people who get those degrees on line? Those degree are not accredited.

Originally posted by jaden101
the fact that someone gets a degree is only proof that they can apply themselves with some measure of dedication

employers who ask for people with degree level education dont really care what the degree is...just that the potential employee has got one...this is because most jobs require "on the job" training

obviously some more specialised careers need more specific skills from certain courses...science for instance

i am in the middle of a forensic science honours degree myself...and while this could lead to scenes of crime or forensic lab work it could also lead into the pharmacuetical industry...the oil industry or any other science based industry

I have a doctorate. IMO any position requiring a doctorate is requiring the education, and just any degree will not work. So, given this, is there distinction to Graduate work beyond what people give to bachelors degrees?

an offshoot of another debate in which the opponent copped out and ran.

a person with a degree certainly (hopefully) has more knowledge on a topic than someone without. (depending on the topic, of coarse, since a black man in georgia probably knows far more about racism than a white guy from new york who studied racism)

respect is not the issue. the issue is proof and evidence to support one's opinion. when a court of law brings in an expert, that expert is required to give more than just an opinion. a forensics expert doesnt just sit at the witness stand and say "i think he did/didnt do it" and get up and walk away, case closed. they must present evidence to support their opinion. i cant think of a single forum for debate where a person is above having to back up any claims. i cant think of a single instance where "because i said so" is acceptable proof of validity.........parenting aside, of coarse

Originally posted by Regret
I think I am referring mainly to degrees with this thread.

So... does a degree garner no respect from you then?

And, just for point of reference with relation to the instigating post, if you feel comfortable answering, do you have a degree?

Edit: Similar response for Backfire, since he agreed 100%

Yeah, I thought so, but the words were kind of mixed up, I just thought I'd point it out.

A degree as such. Not necessarily. It might be part of my first impression as will other things I know of a person, but I try to judge by what I personally experience with a person. I think it is usually relatively easy to determine the intelligence of a person by talking to them. And over some time one will also find out if they are knowledgeable. I wouldn't disregard an opinion because someone that never attended a University had it and I also wouldn't subscribe to one just because it came from an academic. It is of course true that an academic usually had access to more information and might therefore have an accurate opinion, but if that is the case they could just as well present it to me, I don't see the point to give anyone extraordinary credit. just seems pointless.

And no, I don't have a degree.

Originally posted by PVS
an offshoot of another debate in which the opponent copped out and ran.

a person with a degree certainly (hopefully) has more knowledge on a topic than someone without. (depending on the topic, of coarse, since a black man in georgia probably knows far more about racism than a white guy from new york who studied racism)

respect is not the issue. the issue is proof and evidence to support one's opinion. when a court of law brings in an expert, that expert is required to give more than just an opinion. a forensics expert doesnt just sit at the witness stand and say "i think he did/didnt do it" and get up and walk away, case closed. they must present evidence to support their opinion. i cant think of a single forum for debate where a person is above having to back up any claims. i cant think of a single instance where "because i said so" is acceptable proof of validity.........parenting aside, of coarse

This is an offshoot of that debate. It became obvious that it was going nowhere, I did not "cop and run."

I started this one because I am interested in the subject of respect given to a degreed individual. The consideration that began this thread was a result of our debate, but this is not that debate. Do not turn it back to the other debate, this is separate and distinct in its intent.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not at the school I attended. Are you talking about people who get those degrees on line? Those degree are not accredited.

I am sorry, but I can not respond to that in a manner that would be respectful or not insulting, I tried, but I can't. Please don't see that as chickening out, I don't think it is.

Originally posted by Regret
I have a doctorate. IMO any position requiring a doctorate is requiring the education, and just any degree will not work. So, given this, is there distinction to Graduate work beyond what people give to bachelors degrees?

indeed...but very few positions "require" a pHD and those that do obviously have to be specific...a person with a doctorate in mathematics isn't suitable for a medical position for instance

but in terms of the general population of jobs....middle management in retail and office enviroments for example...degrees are sought merely as a way of proving a persons ability to apply themselves to a task
perfect example being the company i work for...Tesco...britains biggest supermarket chain

they have a graduate programme for potential managers and so far the only people i know who have participated had computing dergees...

its vaguely applicable but certainly not specific to business management

Originally posted by Regret
This is an offshoot of that debate. It became obvious that it was going nowhere, I did not "cop and run."

I started this one because I am interested in the subject of respect given to a degreed individual. The consideration that began this thread was a result of our debate, but this is not that debate. Do not turn it back to the other debate, this is separate and distinct in its intent.

its the same thing. refer to those without a degree as "uneducated" and those with a degree as "educated", as if the sum of all education is found in school.

and yes, i have a degree, but no, i wont tell you as it doesnt matter.
an opinion with no evidence to support it is no more or less valid than anyone else's which has no proof/evidence. just hot air.

Often, those without degrees find those with degrees intimidating, so the lack of respect can be a defense mechanism.

On the other hand, often it seems the higher the degree, the more of a rectal orifice the degree-holder can be. Having a degree doesn't necessarily mean you're smart; it means you're educated. And not having a degree doesn't necessarily mean you're not smart. College isn't for everyone.

IMO, the bottom-line is the people involved. Showing respect, from one person to another, will often transcend who has a degree and who doesn't.

That aside, I am reminded of this fictional account...
Two men are sitting next to each other on a plane and start talking. In the course of conversation, one asks the other what he does for a living.
The guy answers, "I'm a novelist."
The other says, "Oh, I always wanted to write a book but never found the time."
To which the novelist asked, "Oh? What do you do?"
"I'm a doctor."
"Ah. Yeah, I wanted to do that but never found the time to learn and practice medicine."

Originally posted by Regret
This is an offshoot of that debate. It became obvious that it was going nowhere, I did not "cop and run."

I started this one because I am interested in the subject of respect given to a degreed individual. The consideration that began this thread was a result of our debate, but this is not that debate. Do not turn it back to the other debate, this is separate and distinct in its intent.


I can tell you some of the most pompous and outspoken people I have met and had the pleasure of doing business with were doctors (PHD.)

Its good to know that you associate respect with your higher education then, I hope the people that work with you feel the same way.

Originally posted by PVS
its the same thing. refer to those without a degree as "uneducated" and those with a degree as "educated", as if the sum of all education is found in school.

and yes, i have a degree, but no, i wont tell you as it doesnt matter.
an opinion with no evidence to support it is no more or less valid than anyone else's which has no proof/evidence. just hot air.

I agree with that. A degree does not say that you are more educated, just that you can learn.

well, i think a relevant degree certainly suggests geater education than the average opponent, however its meaningless. credentials have no place in a debate imho. its a crutch, and one which should not be needed. a truly educated person, gifted in knowledge of what they debate, should not need to even mention their credentials. to do so is pointless hot air. if you cant support your point, and that point is of your expertise....well you're paying that student loan for nothing....total rip off imho.

Alright. This is devolving into a personal discussion of respect for the person being discussed. I am referring to the guy with the computer science degree saying the computer can't do that, and the guy without a degree in computers and no experience in the field telling you it can. It seems that in some areas, my area is psychology, in particular people do not respect the education and the statements made based on that education. I am not talking about respect for the individual as a person. And I am not speaking about supplying sources in a debate, I am speaking in general.

Originally posted by Regret
Alright. This is devolving into a personal discussion of respect for the person being discussed. I am referring to the guy with the computer science degree saying the computer can't do that, and the guy without a degree in computers and no experience in the field telling you it can. It seems that in some areas, my area is psychology, in particular people do not respect the education and the statements made based on that education. I am not talking about respect for the individual as a person. And I am not speaking about supplying sources in a debate, I am speaking in general.
um...yeah im not talking about personal respect either. im talking about blind acceptance of an opinion with no explanation other than the flashing of a degree which may or may not be genuine. (internet)

the guy with expertise in computers would go on to explain why their opponent is incorrect. (of coarse as typical with eggheads the retort would be chock full of left handed barbs, but still they would most likely explain why the best they can for the layman.) ...as opposed to simply "i'm an IT person and you dont know shit about computers". that would just be useless...especially since given the anonymity of the internet, they could simply be a side order chef at mcdonalds posing as an IT guy.

Originally posted by Regret
Alright. This is devolving into a personal discussion of respect for the person being discussed. I am referring to the guy with the computer science degree saying the computer can't do that, and the guy without a degree in computers and no experience in the field telling you it can. It seems that in some areas, my area is psychology, in particular people do not respect the education and the statements made based on that education. I am not talking about respect for the individual as a person. And I am not speaking about supplying sources in a debate, I am speaking in general.

So the basic idea is when I have a computer problem and I ask two people I don't know one has a computer degree, one doesn't?

Well, I guess in that case, I would probably take the recommendation of the person with the specific degree.

But I don't generally respect him just because he has a degree. If he turns out to be an idiot after the first few sentences I might reconsider. It just depends on the impression i get and the information I have.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So the basic idea is when I have a computer problem and I ask two people I don't know one has a computer degree, one doesn't?

Well, I guess in that case, I would probably take the recommendation of the person with the specific degree.

But I don't generally respect him just because he has a degree. If he turns out to be an idiot after the first few sentences I might reconsider. It just depends on the impression i get and the information I have.

This is what I'm speaking about.

So, given this response, I would say you respect the degree unless it is shown to be worthless.

Would the same hold true of other fields? Or do some garner less respect as to their statements on their subjects?

its a given that degrees can be swindled and bought, right on up to ivy league, given the right connections *cough*dubya*cough* so yes, a degree alone does not an expert make.

Originally posted by Regret
This is what I'm speaking about.

So, given this response, I would say you respect the degree unless it is shown to be worthless.

Or the person is shown to hold little value, based off their statements.

Originally posted by Regret
This is what I'm speaking about.

So, given this response, I would say you respect the degree unless it is shown to be worthless.

Would the same hold true of other fields? Or do some garner less respect as to their statements on their subjects?

Well, of course in that case where I have little information about one person and no information about the other. It's just probably not the amount of respect you expect.

The thing is if there is no further information available I will take a degree into account. Once that doesn't hold true anymore and I know more about the situation I will judge on much more important facts than a degree.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, of course in that case where I have little information about one person and no information about the other. It's just probably not the amount of respect you expect.

The thing is if there is no further information available I will take a degree into account. Once that doesn't hold true anymore and I know more about the situation I will judge on much more important facts than a degree.

If you were hiring someone and two people were identical in experience etc. but one had the degree and the other did not, would it play a role in hiring if both would be paid the same?

Originally posted by Regret
If you were hiring someone and two people were identical in experience etc. but one had the degree and the other did not, would it play a role in hiring if both would be paid the same?

So, they are EXACTLY the same for all I know, just that one has a degree and the other doesn't? Well, yes, then the one with the degree.

Here a question for you:

Your computer is broken, and you hardly know anything about the maintenance.

You have the choice between a guy without a degree that you know is good with computers, he helped you before and it always worked well and a guy that has a degree in computer science that you don't know anything else about, which one would it be for you?

on KMC...a person who claims they have a degree in order to win a debate is really just the same as the people who claim silly IQ test results

particularly those 16 year old types who say "i got 220 on my IQ test" when they know and we know that they are talking through a hole in their ass

on a side note...a very wise man once said

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So, they are EXACTLY the same for all I know, just that one has a degree and the other doesn't? Well, yes, then the one with the degree.

Here a question for you:

Your computer is broken, and you hardly know anything about the maintenance.

You have the choice between a guy without a degree that you know is good with computers, he helped you before and it always worked well and a guy that has a degree in computer science that you don't know anything else about, which one would it be for you?

The guy I know the work of I'm not arguing the experience means nothing argument, I don't believe that. But an education might mean more knowledge as to options.

Originally posted by Regret
The guy I know the work of I'm not arguing the experience means nothing argument, I don't believe that. But an education might mean more knowledge as to options. Yeah, but that's all it is. It MIGHT mean more experience or knowledge. And as such it is a factor. But when I have the chance to find out for myself I don't care for the degree anymore, since I believe I can determine better who is skilled and knowledgeable.

And, as a spin off of the other thread, I think in a debate it should not matter at all, since a debate is just about determining what is true anyways. And the possibility of knowledge doesn't have anything to do with it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, but that's all it is. It MIGHT mean more experience or knowledge. And as such it is a factor. But when I have the chance to find out for myself I don't care for the degree anymore, since I believe I can determine better who is skilled and knowledgeable.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And, as a spin off of the other thread, I think in a debate it should not matter at all, since a debate is just about determining what is true anyways. And the possibility of knowledge doesn't have anything to do with it.

I think background should play a role in determining the credibility/validity of statements the other person makes. I want to laugh when someone tells me something that has been totally disproved, or someone that considers Freud or Frasier an adequate example of a psychologist today. IMO it is a waste of time debating with someone that does not have a background in a subject and is firm in their "opinion". They often make statements that are not remotely in line with the reality of the subject and then do not take it well when you try to politely tell them that this is so.

All the same, we can discuss this more through PM if you would like.

i've always wondered about that too...i did a small bit of pyschology when i studied forensic psychobiology and one of the first things i noticed was that people who have no clue about psychology always cite freud but anyone with even a small amount of pyschology education thinks he was an idiot

Because he was...

Originally posted by jaden101
i've always wondered about that too...i did a small bit of pyschology when i studied forensic psychobiology and one of the first things i noticed was that people who have no clue about psychology always cite freud but anyone with even a small amount of pyschology education thinks he was an idiot

Yeah, it bugs me when people take him as an example of how we behave. He was a quack in my opinion, and a perverted sex fiend who probably molested his daughter (Anna, not the other one.) But that's my opinion, based on some research into Anna and Freud and their statements. Some psychologists respect him more than I do, but in my experience few of us really like the stereotype he gave the field.

Originally posted by Regret
Does a degree only hold respect from others with degrees?

It appears in my real world experience and on-line experience that uneducated individuals do not hold much regard for a college level education or the statements made by those with the education. This baffles me as I would not disregard my plumbers statements on my plumbing, his education in that area is much more valid than mine.

I am not saying that an education makes a person better in any way, but it does provide them with knowledge that is more thorough in regards to their given field of study.

Given this, am I correct in my observation, or am I only seeing the extreme examples? If you agree or disagree with this attitude, your thoughts would be appreciated.

You are making an uneducated assumption by broadly generalizing all those who don\'t have similar levels of education as yourself. Obtaining a degree in a specific field, does not make every opinion you have in that field a correct one. And most educated individuals in any field will not respect an opinion if evidence is not found supporting it.

I do not automatically take what any individual says to me at face value, especially when attempting to make decisions about important life matters. In most cases, I will only make a decision after all evidence and opinions from various sources has been presented. Sometimes the best advice comes from the accredited professional, and sometimes it does not.

For the record, I am in the process of obtaining degrees in computer programming and information systems technology.

Originally posted by Mr Ed
You are making an uneducated assumption by broadly generalizing all those who don\'t have similar levels of education as yourself.

I am making an uneducated assumption by broadly generalizing all those who don\'t have similar levels of education as myself. This is the first step in the process of gaining an understanding of whether my assumption or hypothesis is correct. Once I have learned what I can here, I may, if it is of enough interest consider making a complete study into the subject. Only by asking the question is it possible to become educated in the subject.

Also, I work in I/O Psychology, I have experience with a large number of individuals and hiring of individuals for high level jobs. In my experience individuals that do not have a college level education tend towards this type of behavior. I believe it may be due to a blow to the self-esteem when passed over in favor of someone with an education.

Originally posted by Mr Ed
Obtaining a degree in a specific field, does not make every opinion you have in that field a correct one. And most educated individuals in any field will not respect an opinion if evidence is not found supporting it.

No, but this topic is addressing the perception of individuals as to the value of a degree, not whether the degree makes one infallible as to his specialization.

Originally posted by Mr Ed
I do not automatically take what any individual says to me at face value, especially when attempting to make decisions about important life matters. In most cases, I will only make a decision after all evidence and opinions from various sources has been presented. Sometimes the best advice comes from the accredited professional, and sometimes it does not.

For the record, I am in the process of obtaining degrees in computer programming and information systems technology.

IMO CS is the area of study that has the most difficult time with this phenomena, those that work effectively and make a decent living without the degree have a low opinion of those that followed the educational approach . My minor was CS, and my major was initially CS. I have seen that these statements hold true in many situations between CS and non-CS personnel.

I respect people with genuine intelligence, degree or not. I know many booksmart people who could probably tell you anything about what they've learnt, but attempt a discussion on something that requires a bit of intelligence and forethought and they can't do it.

-AC

Originally posted by Regret
I am making an uneducated assumption by broadly generalizing all those who dont have similar levels of education as myself. This is the first step in the process of gaining an understanding of whether my assumption or hypothesis is correct. Once I have learned what I can here, I may, if it is of enough interest consider making a complete study into the subject. Only by asking the question is it possible to become educated in the subject.

Also, I work in I/O Psychology, I have experience with a large number of individuals and hiring of individuals for high level jobs. In my experience individuals that do not have a college level education tend towards this type of behavior. I believe it may be due to a blow to the self-esteem when passed over in favor of someone with an education.

No, but this topic is addressing the perception of individuals as to the value of a degree, not whether the degree makes one infallible as to his specialization.

IMO CS is the area of study that has the most difficult time with this phenomena, those that work effectively and make a decent living without the degree have a low opinion of those that followed the educational approach . My minor was CS, and my major was initially CS. I have seen that these statements hold true in many situations between CS and non-CS personnel.


You missed the irony I attempted to present in my previous post about your hypothesis. By your own admission, you have now attested to being uneducated about the opinions of those who have not obtained some form of higher education. So based on your initial reasoning, it would be foolish for one to consider your hypothesis on the matter as being valid, particulary since stated hypothesis was coming from an uneducated individual such as yourself.

Further demonstrating this irony is the fact that your hypothesis is solely based on personal opinion and experience, rather than study or education.

Moving back to the original topic of the thread, I do believe obtaining a degree can be very valuable, and those who obtain one through some form of higher education should be acknowledged for their accomplishments. Still I do not support the notion that such accomplishments should automatically make one an unquestionable-omniscient authourity whilst presenting opinions in their field.

Originally posted by Mr Ed
You missed the irony I attempted to present in my previous post about your hypothesis. By your own admission, you have now attested to being uneducated about the opinions of those who have not obtained some form of higher education. So based on your initial reasoning, it would be foolish for one to consider your hypothesis on the matter as being valid, particulary since stated hypothesis was coming from an uneducated individual such as yourself.

Further demonstrating this irony is the fact that your hypothesis is solely based on personal opinion and experience, rather than study or education.

I did miss the irony of your statement, but I think it was in error all the same. The initial impetus behind research is curiosity in a fairly narrow area, it is often initially motivated based on personal experience and opinion. I admit my lack of knowledge because that is the reason for research. Hypothesis are never considered valid prior to testing of them. What I have approached here is extremely gross preliminary research into the subject of interest. If it seems that my thoughts have some merit, and I desire to continue, a literature review on research that would pertain to this topic would be performed. This would be to verify that a need for such a study could be considered of value, or to replicate another study to increase the validity of such findings, while also narrowing the subject of study to a more exact and concise statement. Then we would proceed to designing the experiment and testing the hypothesis.

Originally posted by Mr Ed
Moving back to the original topic of the thread, I do believe obtaining a degree can be very valuable, and those who obtain one through some form of higher education should be acknowledged for their accomplishments. Still I do not support the notion that such accomplishments should automatically make one an unquestionable-omniscient authourity whilst presenting opinions in their field.

Thank you, this is the type of response I was wanting.

All I can say is that telling people you have a degree to convince them of your viewpoint doesn't seem to work. It never helped me

Originally posted by Nellinator
All I can say is that telling people you have a degree to convince them of your viewpoint doesn't seem to work. It never helped me

Maybe...just maybe...you should have convinced them with your better arguments, but that's just a theory of mine. What do I know, I don't have a degree.

What's with all these threads popping up due to someone's dislike of someone's Debating Tactics? Call me crazy, but I think there's a thread in this forum for that.

Originally posted by Regret
I did miss the irony of your statement, but I think it was in error all the same. The initial impetus behind research is curiosity in a fairly narrow area, it is often initially motivated based on personal experience and opinion. I admit my lack of knowledge because that is the reason for research. Hypothesis are never considered valid prior to testing of them. What I have approached here is extremely gross preliminary research into the subject of interest. If it seems that my thoughts have some merit, and I desire to continue, a literature review on research that would pertain to this topic would be performed. This would be to verify that a need for such a study could be considered of value, or to replicate another study to increase the validity of such findings, while also narrowing the subject of study to a more exact and concise statement. Then we would proceed to designing the experiment and testing the hypothesis.


You are still missing the irony. Despite any conclusion determined from the exstensive research you will conduct, your hypothesis on said matter will never carry as much credibility as the opinions of the experts in this study.

All valid evidence provided to support your hypothesis should be quickly discarded in favor of expert opinion. And of course in this scenario, the experts represent those who do not have degrees.

So with that being stated please accept the opinions of the experts who have posted on this board. Any evidence you obtain to support your hypothesis, will not hold as much merit as their opinions due to your acknowledged lack of expertise regarding the subject.

Originally posted by Mr Ed
You are still missing the irony. Despite any conclusion determined from the exstensive research you will conduct, your hypothesis on said matter will never carry as much credibility as the opinions of the experts in this study.

All valid evidence provided to support your hypothesis should be quickly discarded in favor of expert opinion. And of course in this scenario, the experts represent those who do not have degrees.

So with that being stated please accept the opinions of the experts who have posted on this board. Any evidence you obtain to support your hypothesis, will not hold as much merit as their opinions due to your acknowledged lack of expertise regarding the subject.

Haha, that is kind of funny.

Originally posted by PVS
an offshoot of another debate in which the opponent copped out and ran.

a person with a degree certainly (hopefully) has more knowledge on a topic than someone without. (depending on the topic, of coarse, since a black man in georgia probably knows far more about racism than a white guy from new york who studied racism)

respect is not the issue. the issue is proof and evidence to support one's opinion. when a court of law brings in an expert, that expert is required to give more than just an opinion. a forensics expert doesnt just sit at the witness stand and say "i think he did/didnt do it" and get up and walk away, case closed. they must present evidence to support their opinion. i cant think of a single forum for debate where a person is above having to back up any claims. i cant think of a single instance where "because i said so" is acceptable proof of validity.........parenting aside, of coarse

Err, no, sorry, you are wrong there.

Experts are expected to provide 'expert opinion' on otherwise unsettled points of evidence.

It is absolutely expected in court that if a person is recognised as an expert, then his interpretation on the areas he is an expert in is in itself worth more than it would otherwise be, before you start putting any evidence in.

After all, any layman presenting what he says is 'evidence' or 'proof' is often rather meanginless, especially in the kind of technical areas that Courts deal with. There is only credibility to such statements if the person is an expert, which is why the idea of an 'expert' witness is normally established.


---

"And you can be uneducated and still have a degree."

Geez, I hope not.

Frankly, I still think there is a disturbing lack of respect for decent education in this forum. I find myself having a great lack of respect myself for the kind of opinion Bardock holds here.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Err, no, sorry, you are wrong there.

Experts are expected to provide 'expert opinion' on otherwise unsettled points of evidence.

key words 'otherwise unsettled'. a lack of evidence of any kind renders that forensics expert useless. how can you study a crime with nothing to follow?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"And you can be uneducated and still have a degree."

Geez, I hope not.

Frankly, I still think there is a disturbing lack of respect for decent education in this forum. I find myself having a great lack of respect myself for the kind of opinion Bardock holds here.

:edit: *cough*online degree*cough* so yes he is correct imho

Originally posted by Ushgarak

"And you can be uneducated and still have a degree."

Geez, I hope not.


Oh, believe me I hope so too. But, well, you can.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh, believe me I hope so too. But, well, you can. If it's a BA maybe...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If it's a BA maybe...

You mean like that guy from that A-Team a few years back?

Originally posted by Bardock42
You mean like that guy from that A-Team a few years back? Mr T has a doctorate.. he just doesn't like to brag..

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Mr T has a doctorate.. he just doesn't like to brag..

And I am sure he doesn't need to, because he can back up his statements with reasonable facts and research and not just his degree.

Also, even though a degree alone is not worthy of respect, would you please refer to him as Dr. T? Thank you.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And I am sure he doesn't need to, because he can back up his statements with reasonable facts and research and not just his degree.

Also, even though a degree alone is not worthy of respect, would you please refer to him as Dr. T? Thank you. Weird thing I found out apparently medical doctors who end up electing a surgical specialty end up with the title Mister.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Weird thing I found out apparently medical doctors who end up electing a surgical specialty end up with the title Mister.

Weird thing.....what?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Weird thing.....what? Weird thing... gibberish...

I don't think people with a degree deserve respect simply for having it... but the opinions of someone with a degree are more valid with regards to particular subjects at least with some classes of degree...

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Weird thing... gibberish...

I don't think people with a degree deserve respect simply for having it... but the opinions of someone with a degree are more valid with regards to particular subjects at least with some classes of degree...

But if they don't happen to be the only "expert" in their field they should be able to produce information that goes beyond their opinion. If they can't, well then their opinion is just as useless as anyone elses.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Weird thing I found out apparently medical doctors who end up electing a surgical specialty end up with the title Mister.


Interesting, at least at the hospitals I have gone to, surgeons were still titled and called Dr.

Ppl shouldn't get respect just for having a degree. But intelligent ppl generally know and accept that having a degree respresents a lot of hard work and people with a degree in a certain field generally have a good understanding of that certain field.

Originally posted by Fire
Ppl shouldn't get respect just for having a degree. But intelligent ppl generally know and accept that having a degree respresents a lot of hard work and people with a degree in a certain field generally have a good understanding of that certain field.

Well, that might be true, but if it is they can just back it up and everyone will be happy.

back what up?

Originally posted by Fire
back what up?

Every single opinion they feel like stating.

So we should also respect those power hungry politicians who accept bribes and get corrupted, on the basis of their education ?

Thats................shock

Look at it this way, you should respect someone who's put in the effort to get a degree. That doesn't mean that they can't screw it up and lose that respect.

PhD - piled hight and deep
MBA- More BS attached
BS - self explanatory
BA - Broke and anal

One college professor of mine said that getting a bachelor's degree is like learning a little bit about a lot of stuff, and that getting a PhD. is like learning a lot about a little bit of stuff.

A Degree just mean you took a bunch of tests and wrote large essays for all the professors in class. Would I respect a person with a degree? In a matter of discussion....no. In a matter of a specific field....yes.

You can disagree with someone like a lawyer on matter of opinion. However, it would absolutely stupid to disagree with a lawyer in a matter of judicial discussion.

I think BF pretty much said this, but here's my thoughts....a degree is a piece of paper stating that a person was able to learn and retain information to a given standard long enough to pass written tests/examinations.

Unfortunately this doesn't mean a great deal when starting a real job, as there's still a whole lot more learning to do. Most of the grads I've worked with assume that a degree will automatically earn them respect from everyone they work with. The truth is a lot of people without a degree know far more than the grad does due to experience.

I prefer to judge people on their overall knowledge and experience, rather than what pieces of paper they've got.

Perhaps a more important question would be, "Do graduates lack respect for people without a degree?".

BTW, I have a BEng (Hons) and I'm just finishing off a Masters.

I've only studied for these to further my career. Unfortunately you can't get Chartered without, and most companies still require senior staff to be graduates.

I thought this was kind of an interesting article...

------------------------------------------------------

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/Departments/elearning/?article=WhatIsYourDegreeWorth&GT1=8433

The National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE) tracks the starting salaries of new graduates in particular disciplines. The NACE's most recent Salary Survey reports the following average starting salaries for various college degrees:

Chemical engineering: $52,539
Electrical engineering: $49,946
Computer science: $49,036
Accounting: $41,058
Information sciences: $42,375
Marketing: $34,712
English: $31,113
History: $30,344
Psychology: $28,230

--------------------------

I'm glad my major isn't psychology..I've made about that much working at temp agencies.

I knew I should have been a chemical engineer. No Biology degree listed there I see. Wonder why? Not enough bio majors, or the pay was just too low to list?

Originally posted by docb77
I knew I should have been a chemical engineer. No Biology degree listed there I see. Wonder why? Not enough bio majors, or the pay was just too low to list?

I believe many chemical engineers nowadays are also biological engineers. The fields are so closely related. I can't imagine anyone becoming one without having an exstensive educational background in biology, or vice a versa.

Now becoming a psychologist on the other hand....Well let me just put it this way..most of the people that I know who've received BA's , MA's, or PHD's in psychology, are generally those who have failed out of the more strenuous scientific fields..